Re: Re: Recovery Stories/ Control is the Problem

[Guest guest]

No, it is not too personal to ask. My wife is supportive but also threatened by my emotional troubles. She wants me to work them out on my own, with whatever I need to do that. When I have shared or asked for her help, she gets very angry. So it's a mixed bag there. I wish I could lean on her more but it is what is.I wonder about the physical, too. I have been checked by several doctors, both MDs and a naturopath and nothing has been found. I had low vitamin D but that has been corrected. It didn't make any difference in my mood. One thing about the physical is that I tend to feel better late at night. Nothing has changed physically then so maybe it is all in my head. It sure feels physical, though. I'm taking a bunch of amino acids now, based on the Mood Cure book, plus vitamins and fish oil. So far nothing has made a positive difference.Thanks,BruceIf I don't keep trying, I'll just end up huddled in a ball crying. And I can't let that happen. ...why not just break down and cry? Why can't you let that happen? What is the worst thing that could happen if you just let go? Just break down and cry?Forgive me if I am hitting too personally here, but are you married? ... if so, does your wife share in / understand / stand by you in your struggles? You have talked of your daughter often but never about any other family members. I am simply curious and do not wish to intrude, but have to wonder about your relationships and how they affect / shape your life. Sorry if I am getting too personal, and please feel free to not divulge more than you are comfortable with. I always, always wonder when it comes to you and your symptoms: Is something physical going on? I know I brought this up before and you answered it, but something about that question still bugs me. Caring, HelenaTo: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 1:19:56 PMSubject: Re: Re: Recovery Stories/ Control is the Problem I don't really have anything in my life that I would call fun. I seem to have lost the ability to relax and enjoy anything. It seems like I can only keep a tight hold on myself to try and control my emotions. I know this is wrong but I'm at a loss as to what to do about it. I engage in activities that should be enjoyable by normal standards and get no spontaneous enjoyment from it. This is very frustrating. I have a tough time with moment to moment enjoyment of the things you mention. Do people really enjoy those things? I have a hard time with feeling the beauty of nature, etc. I see it and acknowledge it but it doesn't touch me at any emotional level. I try and meditate but don't get any serenity from that, either. The biggest thing I do is journal and that keeps me going but it's pretty repetitive. I know a lot of it is a waste of time.You are right that I have a strong desire to control pain and avoid it. I don't feel like I can handle pain, although I know I have handled a lot of it and I'm creating most of the pain I experience now myself. I feel like if I don't control myself and situations, that I will completely fall apart and let everyone down. If I don't keep trying, I'll just end up huddled in a ball crying. And I can't let that happen. So letting go of control, over myself at least, seems very threatening. Plus, it seems the pursuing valued action requires that level of forcing myself for me. It doesn't arise spontaneously. Just getting through the day requires a lot of thought and effort for everyday things, like brushing my teeth.I'm just starting with a new therapist. I have been seeing one for awhile but am stuck for progress. We just keep going over the same issues and childhood stuff. I hope the new one I've found will be helpful. I'm trying to eat better, cut out sugar and exercise, take supplements and vitamins, etc. Not a lot of success with that but some. Progress anyway.Thank you for reaching out in reply to my message. I can't believe how bad I sound. I really appreciate your support and desire to help.BruceBruce, you'll never get completely out of your head..we're all stuck with this. But the practice here does help if you keep to it. I'd say a job well done is nothing to minimize. It made me sad it seemed you weren't able to find some joy in that accomplishment today. Do you do anything that you would call fun? What sorts of hobbies, interests do you have? Since you stopped drinking, what do you do now with all that time and money? What about nurturing self-care? Do you move your body enough, get sunshine, eat well? Do you do any deep breathing work, anything that centers you, self as process work? Do you find any enjoyment in moment to moment things, like the sun rising, setting, a child playing, animals about in the park? Today I walked in the rain and it was just exquisite. Do you have a compassionate therapist? This is making the biggest difference for me now. I gave up on looking for an ACT or even a "mindfulness" therapist and just went for a really compassionate, humanistic style person This one is eclectic, open, flexible, patient, good listener, offers some great feedback without lecturing, and well, I guess there is just really no power pull there, no giant therapist hat like I've felt with so many others. She's light, doesn't over-pathologize. We're a team. I just needed a kind person to speak with, say anything, sit with. I was going bonkers here in my head. She noticed how heavy my meanderings were, how hard I was on myself. At one point I just started walking around the room like an elephant swaying my trunk, as that's how it felt after I heard my own story aloud..we got a good laugh out of this. So I'm bringing a lot of my ACT practice to the sessions..sometimes I will directly reference it as ACT-y, sometimes not. It matters not. It's so precious, this hour. And so overdue..I'd only been in therapy very sporadically (really hardly any save but maybe a dozen or so sessions with three different people) for the last 6 years or so. I hope you find someone you can talk with live. Preferably a few, but one for starters is very good. I think we all need that.Control really is the problem. I am getting this big time. Wow, how it shows up everywhere..the mind's need to figure out what it's going to be like, what might go wrong, what sort of danger I'm in now simply because he said that in that way or she did that in that way..danger, danger...everywhere. Much of it is defensive posturing around deeper fears is all. Now a lot less trying to control for that which can't be controlled for. And more attention directed to what I can and what I value attending to. I'm showing up for my committed goals, letting go of attachment to outcome more and more. And it's a really good thing.And just letting good in is huge for me. Anyhow..I don't really know what to say, Bruce.. but I would invite you to open yourself up a bit more to finding and allowing some slices of good, some joyous moments, some light, peace in the most unexpected ways, unforeseen places unanticipated times. Kind regards,Terry> > >> > > I hope everyone on the list is doing well today. I myself am stuck > > in> > > suffering without much to do. In this situation, I struggle with> > > rumination. It's another boring day on the job where I am doing > > enough> > > to stay employed and pull my weight but that's about it.> > >> > > I always look forward to messages from the list but there hasn't > > been> > > much in the past few days. I hope that means that things are good > > for> > > most of us. It's my wish that all of us would be well.> > >> > > Bruce> > >> > >> >> >> >>

[Guest guest]

My wife is supportive but also threatened by my emotional troubles. She wants me to work them out on my own, with whatever I need to do that. When I have shared or asked for her help, she gets very angry.

Do you not see the disconnection in your very answer??? Supportive ... threatened ... work it out on your own ... whatever you need ... gets angry ...

Love ya,

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 3:10:00 PMSubject: Re: Re: Recovery Stories/ Control is the Problem

No, it is not too personal to ask. My wife is supportive but also threatened by my emotional troubles. She wants me to work them out on my own, with whatever I need to do that. When I have shared or asked for her help, she gets very angry. So it's a mixed bag there. I wish I could lean on her more but it is what is.

I wonder about the physical, too. I have been checked by several doctors, both MDs and a naturopath and nothing has been found. I had low vitamin D but that has been corrected. It didn't make any difference in my mood. One thing about the physical is that I tend to feel better late at night. Nothing has changed physically then so maybe it is all in my head. It sure feels physical, though. I'm taking a bunch of amino acids now, based on the Mood Cure book, plus vitamins and fish oil. So far nothing has made a positive difference.

Thanks,

Bruce

If I don't keep trying, I'll just end up huddled in a ball crying. And I can't let that happen.

....why not just break down and cry? Why can't you let that happen? What is the worst thing that could happen if you just let go? Just break down and cry?

Forgive me if I am hitting too personally here, but are you married? ... if so, does your wife share in / understand / stand by you in your struggles? You have talked of your daughter often but never about any other family members. I am simply curious and do not wish to intrude, but have to wonder about your relationships and how they affect / shape your life. Sorry if I am getting too personal, and please feel free to not divulge more than you are comfortable with.

I always, always wonder when it comes to you and your symptoms: Is something physical going on? I know I brought this up before and you answered it, but something about that question still bugs me.

Caring,

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 1:19:56 PMSubject: Re: Re: Recovery Stories/ Control is the Problem

I don't really have anything in my life that I would call fun. I seem to have lost the ability to relax and enjoy anything. It seems like I can only keep a tight hold on myself to try and control my emotions. I know this is wrong but I'm at a loss as to what to do about it. I engage in activities that should be enjoyable by normal standards and get no spontaneous enjoyment from it. This is very frustrating. I have a tough time with moment to moment enjoyment of the things you mention. Do people really enjoy those things? I have a hard time with feeling the beauty of nature, etc. I see it and acknowledge it but it doesn't touch me at any emotional level. I try and meditate but don't get any serenity from that, either. The biggest thing I do is journal and that keeps me going but it's pretty repetitive. I know a lot of it is a waste of time.

You are right that I have a strong desire to control pain and avoid it. I don't feel like I can handle pain, although I know I have handled a lot of it and I'm creating most of the pain I experience now myself. I feel like if I don't control myself and situations, that I will completely fall apart and let everyone down. If I don't keep trying, I'll just end up huddled in a ball crying. And I can't let that happen. So letting go of control, over myself at least, seems very threatening. Plus, it seems the pursuing valued action requires that level of forcing myself for me. It doesn't arise spontaneously. Just getting through the day requires a lot of thought and effort for everyday things, like brushing my teeth.

I'm just starting with a new therapist. I have been seeing one for awhile but am stuck for progress. We just keep going over the same issues and childhood stuff. I hope the new one I've found will be helpful. I'm trying to eat better, cut out sugar and exercise, take supplements and vitamins, etc. Not a lot of success with that but some. Progress anyway.

Thank you for reaching out in reply to my message. I can't believe how bad I sound. I really appreciate your support and desire to help.

Bruce

Bruce, you'll never get completely out of your head..we're all stuck with this. But the practice here does help if you keep to it. I'd say a job well done is nothing to minimize. It made me sad it seemed you weren't able to find some joy in that accomplishment today. Do you do anything that you would call fun? What sorts of hobbies, interests do you have? Since you stopped drinking, what do you do now with all that time and money? What about nurturing self-care? Do you move your body enough, get sunshine, eat well? Do you do any deep breathing work, anything that centers you, self as process work? Do you find any enjoyment in moment to moment things, like the sun rising, setting, a child playing, animals about in the park? Today I walked in the rain and it was just exquisite. Do you have a compassionate therapist? This is making the biggest difference for me now. I gave up on looking for an ACT or even a "mindfulness" therapist and just went for a really compassionate, humanistic style person This one is eclectic, open, flexible, patient, good listener, offers some great feedback without lecturing, and well, I guess there is just really no power pull there, no giant therapist hat like I've felt with so many others. She's light, doesn't over-pathologize. We're a team. I just needed a kind person to speak with, say anything, sit with. I was going bonkers here in my head. She noticed how heavy my meanderings were, how hard I was on myself. At one point I just started walking around the room like an elephant swaying my trunk, as that's how it felt after I heard my own story aloud..we got a good laugh out of this. So I'm bringing a lot of my ACT practice to the sessions..sometimes I will directly reference it as ACT-y, sometimes not. It matters not. It's so precious, this hour. And so overdue..I'd only been in therapy very sporadically (really hardly any save but maybe a dozen or so sessions with three different people) for the last 6 years or so. I hope you find someone you can talk with live. Preferably a few, but one for starters is very good. I think we all need that.Control really is the problem. I am getting this big time. Wow, how it shows up everywhere..the mind's need to figure out what it's going to be like, what might go wrong, what sort of danger I'm in now simply because he said that in that way or she did that in that way..danger, danger...everywhere. Much of it is defensive posturing around deeper fears is all. Now a lot less trying to control for that which can't be controlled for. And more attention directed to what I can and what I value attending to. I'm showing up for my committed goals, letting go of attachment to outcome more and more. And it's a really good thing.And just letting good in is huge for me. Anyhow..I don't really know what to say, Bruce.. but I would invite you to open yourself up a bit more to finding and allowing some slices of good, some joyous moments, some light, peace in the most unexpected ways, unforeseen places unanticipated times. Kind regards,Terry> > >> > > I hope everyone on the list is doing well today. I myself am stuck > > in> > > suffering without much to do. In this situation, I struggle with> > > rumination. It's another boring day on the job where I am doing > > enough> > > to stay employed and pull my weight but that's about it.> > >> > > I always look forward to messages from the list but there hasn't > > been> > > much in the past few days. I hope that means that things are good > > for> > > most of us. It's my wish that all of us would be well.> > >> > > Bruce> > >> > >> >> >> >>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I see the problem. I just don't know what I can do about it. I guess a big part of me does think that I'm responsible for myself, it's not her responsibility for me to be healthy and whole. And I can't change her, I can only change myself. I've tried being open about my struggles and it hasn't worked out very well. Today, things are good between us. I guess I feel that's as long as I don't crack.I wish things were different but they aren't. I'm trying to be accepting of what is and go from there.I appreciate your good wishes. I really do. It's a challenging day and I'm trying to practice...BruceMy wife is supportive but also threatened by my emotional troubles. She wants me to work them out on my own, with whatever I need to do that. When I have shared or asked for her help, she gets very angry. Do you not see the disconnection in your very answer??? Supportive ... threatened ... work it out on your own ... whatever you need ... gets angry ... Love ya,Helena To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 3:10:00 PMSubject: Re: Re: Recovery Stories/ Control is the Problem No, it is not too personal to ask. My wife is supportive but also threatened by my emotional troubles. She wants me to work them out on my own, with whatever I need to do that. When I have shared or asked for her help, she gets very angry. So it's a mixed bag there. I wish I could lean on her more but it is what is.I wonder about the physical, too. I have been checked by several doctors, both MDs and a naturopath and nothing has been found. I had low vitamin D but that has been corrected. It didn't make any difference in my mood. One thing about the physical is that I tend to feel better late at night. Nothing has changed physically then so maybe it is all in my head. It sure feels physical, though. I'm taking a bunch of amino acids now, based on the Mood Cure book, plus vitamins and fish oil. So far nothing has made a positive difference.Thanks,BruceIf I don't keep trying, I'll just end up huddled in a ball crying. And I can't let that happen. ...why not just break down and cry? Why can't you let that happen? What is the worst thing that could happen if you just let go? Just break down and cry?Forgive me if I am hitting too personally here, but are you married? ... if so, does your wife share in / understand / stand by you in your struggles? You have talked of your daughter often but never about any other family members. I am simply curious and do not wish to intrude, but have to wonder about your relationships and how they affect / shape your life. Sorry if I am getting too personal, and please feel free to not divulge more than you are comfortable with. I always, always wonder when it comes to you and your symptoms: Is something physical going on? I know I brought this up before and you answered it, but something about that question still bugs me. Caring, HelenaTo: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 1:19:56 PMSubject: Re: Re: Recovery Stories/ Control is the Problem I don't really have anything in my life that I would call fun. I seem to have lost the ability to relax and enjoy anything. It seems like I can only keep a tight hold on myself to try and control my emotions. I know this is wrong but I'm at a loss as to what to do about it. I engage in activities that should be enjoyable by normal standards and get no spontaneous enjoyment from it. This is very frustrating. I have a tough time with moment to moment enjoyment of the things you mention. Do people really enjoy those things? I have a hard time with feeling the beauty of nature, etc. I see it and acknowledge it but it doesn't touch me at any emotional level. I try and meditate but don't get any serenity from that, either. The biggest thing I do is journal and that keeps me going but it's pretty repetitive. I know a lot of it is a waste of time.You are right that I have a strong desire to control pain and avoid it. I don't feel like I can handle pain, although I know I have handled a lot of it and I'm creating most of the pain I experience now myself. I feel like if I don't control myself and situations, that I will completely fall apart and let everyone down. If I don't keep trying, I'll just end up huddled in a ball crying. And I can't let that happen. So letting go of control, over myself at least, seems very threatening. Plus, it seems the pursuing valued action requires that level of forcing myself for me. It doesn't arise spontaneously. Just getting through the day requires a lot of thought and effort for everyday things, like brushing my teeth.I'm just starting with a new therapist. I have been seeing one for awhile but am stuck for progress. We just keep going over the same issues and childhood stuff. I hope the new one I've found will be helpful. I'm trying to eat better, cut out sugar and exercise, take supplements and vitamins, etc. Not a lot of success with that but some. Progress anyway.Thank you for reaching out in reply to my message. I can't believe how bad I sound. I really appreciate your support and desire to help.BruceBruce, you'll never get completely out of your head..we're all stuck with this. But the practice here does help if you keep to it. I'd say a job well done is nothing to minimize. It made me sad it seemed you weren't able to find some joy in that accomplishment today. Do you do anything that you would call fun? What sorts of hobbies, interests do you have? Since you stopped drinking, what do you do now with all that time and money? What about nurturing self-care? Do you move your body enough, get sunshine, eat well? Do you do any deep breathing work, anything that centers you, self as process work? Do you find any enjoyment in moment to moment things, like the sun rising, setting, a child playing, animals about in the park? Today I walked in the rain and it was just exquisite. Do you have a compassionate therapist? This is making the biggest difference for me now. I gave up on looking for an ACT or even a "mindfulness" therapist and just went for a really compassionate, humanistic style person This one is eclectic, open, flexible, patient, good listener, offers some great feedback without lecturing, and well, I guess there is just really no power pull there, no giant therapist hat like I've felt with so many others. She's light, doesn't over-pathologize. We're a team. I just needed a kind person to speak with, say anything, sit with. I was going bonkers here in my head. She noticed how heavy my meanderings were, how hard I was on myself. At one point I just started walking around the room like an elephant swaying my trunk, as that's how it felt after I heard my own story aloud..we got a good laugh out of this. So I'm bringing a lot of my ACT practice to the sessions..sometimes I will directly reference it as ACT-y, sometimes not. It matters not. It's so precious, this hour. And so overdue..I'd only been in therapy very sporadically (really hardly any save but maybe a dozen or so sessions with three different people) for the last 6 years or so. I hope you find someone you can talk with live. Preferably a few, but one for starters is very good. I think we all need that.Control really is the problem. I am getting this big time. Wow, how it shows up everywhere..the mind's need to figure out what it's going to be like, what might go wrong, what sort of danger I'm in now simply because he said that in that way or she did that in that way..danger, danger...everywhere. Much of it is defensive posturing around deeper fears is all. Now a lot less trying to control for that which can't be controlled for. And more attention directed to what I can and what I value attending to. I'm showing up for my committed goals, letting go of attachment to outcome more and more. And it's a really good thing.And just letting good in is huge for me. Anyhow..I don't really know what to say, Bruce.. but I would invite you to open yourself up a bit more to finding and allowing some slices of good, some joyous moments, some light, peace in the most unexpected ways, unforeseen places unanticipated times. Kind regards,Terry> > >> > > I hope everyone on the list is doing well today. I myself am stuck > > in> > > suffering without much to do. In this situation, I struggle with> > > rumination. It's another boring day on the job where I am doing > > enough> > > to stay employed and pull my weight but that's about it.> > >> > > I always look forward to messages from the list but there hasn't > > been> > > much in the past few days. I hope that means that things are good > > for> > > most of us. It's my wish that all of us would be well.> > >> > > Bruce> > >> > >> >> >> >>

[Guest guest]

No worries on the lecturing. I appreciate your thoughts.You are probably right on the quality of my observing. It probably is just my mind again, rather than truly the observing self. I certainly am not free of judgment. I do nothing but judge thoughts all day long.BruceI Bruce, Who is the "you" who has such an investment in all this suffering? Who is the "you" who is afraid that being in THIS moment now, this very moment of "unhappiness" and whatever else is going on,would equal a kind of death of identity? And who is the "you" who prefers to maintain the barrier, the sense of separation, the suffering, to avoid such a death?A very common place to be coming from. At least in my experience.So often we think "Ah, that's the mind talking," and then replace it with another instance of mind, thinking what we havedone is "observe." Nope. Just the mind still talking, still afraid, pretending to be us. Still separate and proud of it.I hate sounding like I'm lecturing. This is something I workwith myself. - R.> > > > >> > > > > I hope everyone on the list is doing well today. I myself am > > stuck> > > > in> > > > > suffering without much to do. In this situation, I struggle with> > > > > rumination. It's another boring day on the job where I am doing> > > > enough> > > > > to stay employed and pull my weight but that's about it.> > > > >> > > > > I always look forward to messages from the list but there hasn't> > > > been> > > > > much in the past few days. I hope that means that things are > > good> > > > for> > > > > most of us. It's my wish that all of us would be well.> > > > >> > > > > Bruce> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> >>