Re: Have split up with my girlfriend months and feel a lot of desperation!

August 21, 2011

OK - I found something that might be helpful about committed action

when we feel we are failing:

" Finding Life Beyond Trauma, " an ACT workbook by Follette

and Pistorello, has an especially good section on " Giving

Up Attachment to Outcome. " It's a couple of pages long - here are

some excerpts:

" There is one barrier that can get its hooks into all of us: being

overly attached to an outcome. Most of us want to be accomplished in

some areas, owning the house with the white picket fence, having a

circle of loving friends and family, or enjoying lots of leisure

time. However, life don't always oblige. It is often the case that,

as we set goals for ourselves, we expect them to work out in the way

we envision, and disappointment arises when we don't see that

outcome. This is a natural reaction to these types of situations,

but buying into thoughts and feelings around this disappointment,

such as " Why bother? " or resentment often leads us to becoming stuck.

" ... if you are feeling disheartened by the impact of your

value-driven efforts and this leads to inaction, see if there is a

way of letting go of attachment to a specific outcome. Remember, we

cannot control much of the world, and the bigger goal is to continue

to move in a valued direction. Living your life is a process - not

an outcome.

" Take a moment now and go back to the values you listed ... Ask

yourself these two questions about each value:

" 1. Can you make room to live out this value knowing that the

outcome you want may not happen? For example, is it possible for you

to engage in actions that are about building trust and intimacy in

your life, knowing that you may very well get hurt in the process?

" 2. Would your value change if the outcome you wanted did not occur?

For example, would you stop caring about justice if the world wasn't

just 100 percent of the time? Imagine what would have happened if

individuals like Luther King Jr., Mother , Gandhi, and

the Dalai Lama made their valued actions contigent on the world

being fair and just most of the time! "

Hope this helps - I know I find it helpful on what can be a very

tough point.

- Randy

August 21, 2011

Sorry, Randy—no offense meant. Simply an observation on the many folks I know who gradually buy into (fuse with) such a mindset. I was one, myself. Probably a strong biological component. It does seem at times, thought, that the more intense the focus on this, the more elusive the goal becomes.

D> >> Darrell, Bill, and Einfach,>> I'm going to venture to disagree a little with both Darrell and

> Bill. Not entirely - just on a couple of aspects.>> First, saying that wanting a mate is a culturally imposed " reality> model " or " pervasive concept " does not seem to me to be helpful for

> someone who actually does want a mate. It is possible to live a deep> and full life without a mate. It is also okay to want a mate even if> the wanting is painful. Let us honor each other's values.

>> Second, this bit about deferring a key value to work on other> values: yes and no. " Yes " very much, in the sense that there are> many ways to connect with life; and if we find ourselves unable for

> now to move forward in a particular domain, other domains may still> give us such a deep connection. Bill's general advice to Einfach in> this regard is spot on. And I remember a wonderful post by Russ

> to the same effect.>> But also, in another sense, " No, " and a very strong no. I believe> there are are many, many people on this list - including me - who> have gotten hung up on learning and applying ACT because a key area

> seemed blocked in exactly the way that Einfach describes:>> " It seems to me that the more I take action the more I am proving> that it will not work out and the more my limiting beliefs are

> getting solidified. So I have stopped taking any action. " >> I can empathize with these words big time. And I would suggest that> the pain of seeming blocked in an important area be acknowledged for

> what it is, and not pushed away. Pushing away contributes to> avoidance, even if the pushing seems to be in the name of " other> values. " Small steps are good ... deferring a tough domain for a

> while can work well ... but let us not push away pain even by> accident. Let us honor it whether it is ours or someone else's.>> And beyond that, I think when we do seem to be failing badly in our

> immediate efforts, and have thoughts that a value is not for us, it> becomes an opportunity to revisit what committed action consists of.>> It is not about measuring our self-worth by whether we reach a

> particular goal on a particular schedule; it is about living a> valued life here and now, moment by moment, choice by choice - the> sweet and the bitter together. It is cultivating a willingness to> reach out to life even when reaching out is difficult. It is about

> learning through failure, not about " succeeding without failure. " No> one succeeds without failure - no one. Success is not guaranteed.> And yet we can reach out to life even so and know we are alive.

>> I recognize that Einfach is working with a difficult issue.> Relationships are very tough. Career is very tough. Illness and> health are very tough. I defy anyone to find a domain where things

> are not very tough at times.>> I think there are ways to explore, slowly, gently - with small steps> if need be, or maybe even taking a time out - the situations where> it seems that all we can do is fail. I wish I had a good book to

> refer to right now. But I can say that withdrawing from one domain> because of difficulties is not necessarily a way to promote success> in other domains. The same processes work across all domains.

>> Please feel free to disagree with what I say, Darren and Bill. As I> say I think Bill's advice is in general excellent. It is only that I> think growth can sometimes be found in the strangest of places -

> e.g. by moving gently closer to actual failure and to the fear of> failure, rather than farther away.>> Einfach, if I can find a good example from an ACT book of what I am> talking about in regard to committed action, I will post it here.

> Good luck!>> - Randy>> -- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@...

August 21, 2011

No offense taken. I do think though that culture is part of the context for

just about all values. Can't separate it out - but it is there. Hard to know

sometimes what is pliance and what is not. Take my value of wanting to

write meaningful pieces of writing - this is deeply embedded in a matrix

of cultural influence that is so deep & convoluted & contradictory that

trying to prise out this aspect vs. that would be impossible in any meaningful

sense.

So in ACT terms, I think it is not whether a particular value has cultural

components that matters, so much as appetitive vs. aversive - i.e.

fostering a sense that we have a choice and are not being coerced.

- R.

> >

> > Darrell, Bill, and Einfach,

> >

> > I'm going to venture to disagree a little with both Darrell and

> > Bill. Not entirely - just on a couple of aspects.

> >

> > First, saying that wanting a mate is a culturally imposed " reality

> > model " or " pervasive concept " does not seem to me to be helpful for

> > someone who actually does want a mate. It is possible to live a deep

> > and full life without a mate. It is also okay to want a mate even if

> > the wanting is painful. Let us honor each other's values.

> >

> > Second, this bit about deferring a key value to work on other

> > values: yes and no. " Yes " very much, in the sense that there are

> > many ways to connect with life; and if we find ourselves unable for

> > now to move forward in a particular domain, other domains may still

> > give us such a deep connection. Bill's general advice to Einfach in

> > this regard is spot on. And I remember a wonderful post by Russ

> > to the same effect.

> >

> > But also, in another sense, " No, " and a very strong no. I believe

> > there are are many, many people on this list - including me - who

> > have gotten hung up on learning and applying ACT because a key area

> > seemed blocked in exactly the way that Einfach describes:

> >

> > " It seems to me that the more I take action the more I am proving

> > that it will not work out and the more my limiting beliefs are

> > getting solidified. So I have stopped taking any action. "

> >

> > I can empathize with these words big time. And I would suggest that

> > the pain of seeming blocked in an important area be acknowledged for

> > what it is, and not pushed away. Pushing away contributes to

> > avoidance, even if the pushing seems to be in the name of " other

> > values. " Small steps are good ... deferring a tough domain for a

> > while can work well ... but let us not push away pain even by

> > accident. Let us honor it whether it is ours or someone else's.

> >

> > And beyond that, I think when we do seem to be failing badly in our

> > immediate efforts, and have thoughts that a value is not for us, it

> > becomes an opportunity to revisit what committed action consists of.

> >

> > It is not about measuring our self-worth by whether we reach a

> > particular goal on a particular schedule; it is about living a

> > valued life here and now, moment by moment, choice by choice - the

> > sweet and the bitter together. It is cultivating a willingness to

> > reach out to life even when reaching out is difficult. It is about

> > learning through failure, not about " succeeding without failure. " No

> > one succeeds without failure - no one. Success is not guaranteed.

> > And yet we can reach out to life even so and know we are alive.

> >

> > I recognize that Einfach is working with a difficult issue.

> > Relationships are very tough. Career is very tough. Illness and

> > health are very tough. I defy anyone to find a domain where things

> > are not very tough at times.

> >

> > I think there are ways to explore, slowly, gently - with small steps

> > if need be, or maybe even taking a time out - the situations where

> > it seems that all we can do is fail. I wish I had a good book to

> > refer to right now. But I can say that withdrawing from one domain

> > because of difficulties is not necessarily a way to promote success

> > in other domains. The same processes work across all domains.

> >

> > Please feel free to disagree with what I say, Darren and Bill. As I

> > say I think Bill's advice is in general excellent. It is only that I

> > think growth can sometimes be found in the strangest of places -

> > e.g. by moving gently closer to actual failure and to the fear of

> > failure, rather than farther away.

> >

> > Einfach, if I can find a good example from an ACT book of what I am

> > talking about in regard to committed action, I will post it here.

> > Good luck!

> >

> > - Randy

> >

>

> --

> Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-T

> Rochester, NY, US

> http://darrellking.com

> DarrellGKing@...

>

August 21, 2011

And I should say that the same goes for presumed biological influences.

- R.

> > >

> > > Darrell, Bill, and Einfach,

> > >

> > > I'm going to venture to disagree a little with both Darrell and

> > > Bill. Not entirely - just on a couple of aspects.

> > >

> > > First, saying that wanting a mate is a culturally imposed " reality

> > > model " or " pervasive concept " does not seem to me to be helpful for

> > > someone who actually does want a mate. It is possible to live a deep

> > > and full life without a mate. It is also okay to want a mate even if

> > > the wanting is painful. Let us honor each other's values.

> > >

> > > Second, this bit about deferring a key value to work on other

> > > values: yes and no. " Yes " very much, in the sense that there are

> > > many ways to connect with life; and if we find ourselves unable for

> > > now to move forward in a particular domain, other domains may still

> > > give us such a deep connection. Bill's general advice to Einfach in

> > > this regard is spot on. And I remember a wonderful post by Russ

> > > to the same effect.

> > >

> > > But also, in another sense, " No, " and a very strong no. I believe

> > > there are are many, many people on this list - including me - who

> > > have gotten hung up on learning and applying ACT because a key area

> > > seemed blocked in exactly the way that Einfach describes:

> > >

> > > " It seems to me that the more I take action the more I am proving

> > > that it will not work out and the more my limiting beliefs are

> > > getting solidified. So I have stopped taking any action. "

> > >

> > > I can empathize with these words big time. And I would suggest that

> > > the pain of seeming blocked in an important area be acknowledged for

> > > what it is, and not pushed away. Pushing away contributes to

> > > avoidance, even if the pushing seems to be in the name of " other

> > > values. " Small steps are good ... deferring a tough domain for a

> > > while can work well ... but let us not push away pain even by

> > > accident. Let us honor it whether it is ours or someone else's.

> > >

> > > And beyond that, I think when we do seem to be failing badly in our

> > > immediate efforts, and have thoughts that a value is not for us, it

> > > becomes an opportunity to revisit what committed action consists of.

> > >

> > > It is not about measuring our self-worth by whether we reach a

> > > particular goal on a particular schedule; it is about living a

> > > valued life here and now, moment by moment, choice by choice - the

> > > sweet and the bitter together. It is cultivating a willingness to

> > > reach out to life even when reaching out is difficult. It is about

> > > learning through failure, not about " succeeding without failure. " No

> > > one succeeds without failure - no one. Success is not guaranteed.

> > > And yet we can reach out to life even so and know we are alive.

> > >

> > > I recognize that Einfach is working with a difficult issue.

> > > Relationships are very tough. Career is very tough. Illness and

> > > health are very tough. I defy anyone to find a domain where things

> > > are not very tough at times.

> > >

> > > I think there are ways to explore, slowly, gently - with small steps

> > > if need be, or maybe even taking a time out - the situations where

> > > it seems that all we can do is fail. I wish I had a good book to

> > > refer to right now. But I can say that withdrawing from one domain

> > > because of difficulties is not necessarily a way to promote success

> > > in other domains. The same processes work across all domains.

> > >

> > > Please feel free to disagree with what I say, Darren and Bill. As I

> > > say I think Bill's advice is in general excellent. It is only that I

> > > think growth can sometimes be found in the strangest of places -

> > > e.g. by moving gently closer to actual failure and to the fear of

> > > failure, rather than farther away.

> > >

> > > Einfach, if I can find a good example from an ACT book of what I am

> > > talking about in regard to committed action, I will post it here.

> > > Good luck!

> > >

> > > - Randy

> > >

> >

> > --

> > Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-T

> > Rochester, NY, US

> > http://darrellking.com

> > DarrellGKing@

> >

>

August 21, 2011

Dear Darrell, Bill and Randy,

thanks for your repley and sharing your thoughts with me.

I fully agree with Randy that relationship are more than just a " pervasive

concept " culturally imposed. Having a partner and being together with someone is

something that I have leart to deeply value through my last relationship.

My biggest challenge right know is that every value driven commited action right

now seems to backfire. I want to take action and i am able to take action. I can

go out and meet friends and i have done that. But when i go out and take action

nothing comes out of it and actually i do not like going out. When I go out I

just do it, to meet someone. So how can i do what has to be done if do not value

what i have to do.

I think Randy, that you are right on the spot.

I am to attached to the outcome. But how can i disengage from getting to

attached to the outcome? Would defusion help or should I challenge my thoughts?

Or should I just take action and value that I am taking action.

And when is it right to give up. Because right now it seems to me, that

everything I do is getting me nowhere.

It seems to me right now that cure is the poison. The more I try to do something

the more i get discouraged. There is no reinforcement form the outside. It seems

to me that the world is saying no to every effort that i take.

Or should i loose every hope and just go through the pain.

This weekend i thought about going out dancing but when i though about my heart

start hurting and avoidant thoughts came up. I tried to defuse them but then

came others thoughts like: " you have tried to defuse them and went out and it

was a waste of time. "

Bill, I like what you have been written about working on more than one value. I

think it can help me to reduce the heaviness of failing and getting to obsessed

with one value.

But on the other side I am scared that if do not focus on solve this issue and

taking commited action it will again take me years to get in an intimate

relationship.

Some people say that you should calm down and relaxe and it will happen by

itself and i will find someone. And if you are to obssesed you look desperate

and women do not like guys who are desperatly looking for someone.

How does ACT relate to this. Does non-action real help or is commited action

allways the answer?

What are your thoughts on this?

Einfach

>

> OK - I found something that might be helpful about committed action

> when we feel we are failing:

>

> " Finding Life Beyond Trauma, " an ACT workbook by Follette

> and Pistorello, has an especially good section on " Giving

> Up Attachment to Outcome. " It's a couple of pages long - here are

> some excerpts:

>

> " There is one barrier that can get its hooks into all of us: being

> overly attached to an outcome. Most of us want to be accomplished in

> some areas, owning the house with the white picket fence, having a

> circle of loving friends and family, or enjoying lots of leisure

> time. However, life don't always oblige. It is often the case that,

> as we set goals for ourselves, we expect them to work out in the way

> we envision, and disappointment arises when we don't see that

> outcome. This is a natural reaction to these types of situations,

> but buying into thoughts and feelings around this disappointment,

> such as " Why bother? " or resentment often leads us to becoming stuck.

>

> " ... if you are feeling disheartened by the impact of your

> value-driven efforts and this leads to inaction, see if there is a

> way of letting go of attachment to a specific outcome. Remember, we

> cannot control much of the world, and the bigger goal is to continue

> to move in a valued direction. Living your life is a process - not

> an outcome.

>

> " Take a moment now and go back to the values you listed ... Ask

> yourself these two questions about each value:

>

> " 1. Can you make room to live out this value knowing that the

> outcome you want may not happen? For example, is it possible for you

> to engage in actions that are about building trust and intimacy in

> your life, knowing that you may very well get hurt in the process?

>

> " 2. Would your value change if the outcome you wanted did not occur?

> For example, would you stop caring about justice if the world wasn't

> just 100 percent of the time? Imagine what would have happened if

> individuals like Luther King Jr., Mother , Gandhi, and

> the Dalai Lama made their valued actions contigent on the world

> being fair and just most of the time! "

>

> Hope this helps - I know I find it helpful on what can be a very

> tough point.

>

> - Randy

>

August 21, 2011

Watch that you dont make values into musterbations demands oughts shoulds etc.Sent from my iPhone

Dear Darrell, Bill and Randy,

thanks for your repley and sharing your thoughts with me.

I fully agree with Randy that relationship are more than just a "pervasive concept" culturally imposed. Having a partner and being together with someone is something that I have leart to deeply value through my last relationship.

My biggest challenge right know is that every value driven commited action right now seems to backfire. I want to take action and i am able to take action. I can go out and meet friends and i have done that. But when i go out and take action nothing comes out of it and actually i do not like going out. When I go out I just do it, to meet someone. So how can i do what has to be done if do not value what i have to do.

I think Randy, that you are right on the spot.

I am to attached to the outcome. But how can i disengage from getting to attached to the outcome? Would defusion help or should I challenge my thoughts? Or should I just take action and value that I am taking action.

And when is it right to give up. Because right now it seems to me, that everything I do is getting me nowhere.

It seems to me right now that cure is the poison. The more I try to do something the more i get discouraged. There is no reinforcement form the outside. It seems to me that the world is saying no to every effort that i take.

Or should i loose every hope and just go through the pain.

This weekend i thought about going out dancing but when i though about my heart start hurting and avoidant thoughts came up. I tried to defuse them but then came others thoughts like: "you have tried to defuse them and went out and it was a waste of time."

Bill, I like what you have been written about working on more than one value. I think it can help me to reduce the heaviness of failing and getting to obsessed with one value.

But on the other side I am scared that if do not focus on solve this issue and taking commited action it will again take me years to get in an intimate relationship.

Some people say that you should calm down and relaxe and it will happen by itself and i will find someone. And if you are to obssesed you look desperate and women do not like guys who are desperatly looking for someone.

How does ACT relate to this. Does non-action real help or is commited action allways the answer?

What are your thoughts on this?

Einfach

>

> OK - I found something that might be helpful about committed action

> when we feel we are failing:

>

> "Finding Life Beyond Trauma," an ACT workbook by Follette

> and Pistorello, has an especially good section on "Giving

> Up Attachment to Outcome." It's a couple of pages long - here are

> some excerpts:

>

> "There is one barrier that can get its hooks into all of us: being