Re: I don't think I like him anymore.

[Guest guest]

Oh, Grace, I'm sorry to hear that you are going

through this with .

It does sound like he is wanting to live the kind of

life his buddy does..but I think he needs a wakeup

call..you've got to just sit him down and tell him

that you and the girls need him..and if he wants to be

part of your lives..well..he's got to be there for all

of you...all the time.

Hugs,

Mimi

--- Grace Keh wrote:

> I think I might actually hate my husband. No,

> actually, while I am really

> pissed off at him, I don't think I even hate him. I

> really just don't like

> him at all. Hate is too emotional to qualify as

> what I am feeling. I don't

> even feel THAT much.

>

> Lately, he's been going out a lot. He has made a

> new friend, another

> doctor, who is an orthodontist. The thing with

> orthos is that they see

> about 30-40 pts/day, and they only work 2-3 days a

> week. This means that

> this man takes off more days in a week than he

> works. So, he hangs around

> and plays golf, has dinner out with his friends, and

> goes drinking with

> friends at night, late into the night, since most

> days, he does not have to

> work in the morning.

>

> The man is 40 years old. He and his wife have two

> children, age 8 and 2, I

> believe. Well, she is a prosthodontist, and she

> works too. But - this is

> the kind of couple where they have a live-in nanny,

> and they do as they

> please. When he is out doing what he does, she is

> often out in SF hanging

> out with HER friends. OK, so in other words, they

> live " the grand life. "

> While I acknowledge that this is an envious way to

> live - - I never wanted

> to live like that once I got married. I mean, if I

> were going to live like

> I was single after being married - - I would have

> just stayed single. If I

> were going to drop everything off on a nanny so I

> can go play, I would not

> have had kids. Yes, their lives are much more freer

> than ours, and from the

> outside, it looks liberating and fun. But that was

> never what I wanted.

>

> That said, this man has taken a liking to Shaun and

> " took him under his

> wing " . They have been hanging out a lot, and my

> husband - who has been a

> total homebody - is now going out during the week,

> staying out till 1 AM, 2

> AM.. and once even until 3 AM.

> I have, up to this point, been the kind of wife that

> ALWAYS said yes when he

> wanted to go out with his friends. I have, up to

> this point, enjoyed my

> time alone when he goes out. Amongst his friends, I

> am the only wife that

> is always open to having people over, or letting the

> men " out " to go and

> hang out. I am the one who cooks all 10 of them a

> meal when they want... I

> am the one who convinces the other wives to let the

> men go out, and about

> how they need to relieve some stress by getting

> together once in awhile.

> But now, he's pushed me over MY limit.

>

> Last night, he called and said he would have dinner

> out and a beer with some

> friends of his. I asked if this ortho would be

> there, he told me no. Then,

> he came home at 2 AM. I don't know if this man was

> there, but suffice it to

> say that my husband never comes home at this time of

> night unless this man

> was present. At least not in the last 5 years.

>

> Is it that I think he's having an affair with some

> woman? No.

> But I think he's going through some kind of phase

> where he wants to live

> like this friend. Have no commitments, obligations,

> and do as he pleases.

> If it's a phase, it should pass, right? Except, I

> have no intentions of

> letting him live out this phase. I would rather

> kick him out of the house

> and be rid of him than to live this phase out.

> Unbeknownst to him, and

> quite unfortunately, we don't have the kind of life

> where he has the luxury

> of going through phases such as this. We have two

> autistic children that

> need so many things, and even with both of us

> working hard to get them those

> things - - it STILL may not be enough. We have

> finances to take care of, we

> have responsibilities to our parents, we have a life

> to create and adjust

> to, with autism in it. In short, WE do not and can

> not live the kind of

> life that he is being exposed to. Even if we could,

> I choose not to.

> I'm more than willing to let him pick and choose

> which life he wants. But

> it's mandatory that he get the hell out of my house

> if he chooses any other

> life. What he fails to understand, it seems, is

> that if he does not come

> home for dinner, if he is not here at the kids'

> bedtime, if he is not with

> them for at least an hour or two a day, if he

> doesn't spend downtime with me

> more often than not, if he is not HERE - - he serves

> absolutely no purpose

> to us.

> I've told him this only last week. And this week,

> he's now done it again.

>

> This is not to say that all men serve no purpose if

> they aren't home. But

> with our kids, with our lives - - he needs to be

> here. I need him to be

> here. Shaun does not DO enough in the background to

> get away with not being

> here. Granted, it's not easy to do that much in the

> background with my

> kids, but still - - - I can't allow him to not be

> here and still live here.

>

> The worst part? When did I ask for my SIMS game? Do

> I have it yet? No.

> Yes, I could go out and buy it myself. But that is

> not the point. It's the

> principle of the matter now. And in January - (Jan

> 10th or so), I

> specifically asked him to bring back my blow dryer

> from the practice. For

> weeks now, I've asked him to bring home some

> Microsoft program CD's from his

> practice so I can uninstall the garbage he loaded my

> laptop with, and last

> night - I asked him to buy bread and Kern's nectar

> for the kids, on his way

> home. When he called to ask if he could go out, he

> specifically told me

> that he would, however, buy the stuff I asked for on

> his way home. Would he

> be late, I asked? No, he replied. Like I said, he

> came home at 2 AM.

> And did I find bread in the kitchen, juice in the

> fridge?

>

> No.

>

> Once again, my kids and I were put on the back

> burner, and once again, he

> did not do as he said he would. He wasn't home on

> time, and he did not even

> meet their needs, never mind mine.

> I've lost my kids and now I'm losing my marriage.

> Everything is just

> falling apart and the strangest thing is, I don't

> really mind. My husband

> is a good man, and he can be the nicest person in

> the world. His bad side

> is not so bad, and his good sides are pretty great.

> But it's been awhile

> since I've stopped wanting to be married PERIOD. He

> has no idea how

> comfortable life would be if it were just " me and

> the girls " ..... and he has

> no idea how much his recent behavior makes me wish

> he just wouldn't come

> home anymore because I simply do not need more cause

> for worry. I just wish

> he'd disappear.

>

>

>

> Grace

> Mom to twin girls Sydney and Madison

> Born 3/28/98

> Wife to Shaun 1/11/97

> Reply to: gracekeh@...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Grace,

There was a time(a long period of time) when Jeff would do

anything rather than come home. He even took another job so he would

be home less. If Jeff had any real friends I am sure he may have

spent the time with them instead or maybe not. I hardly say him and I

figured it would make life alot easier if he would just stop coming

home all together and just send the boys and I a check. He did this

for a long time. It really started to get bad about 6 months to a

year after Greggory was dx'x. He later told me that he was trying to

escape. Escape the dx of the boys and the work and the fact that his

life was so far from what he had planned for. He justified being gone

all the time because he was working to support us but really he was

doing it for himself so he wouldnt have to face our life. I don't

know why Shaun is doing what he is but it isnt fair to you. I know

that when Jeff was doing folling around and not being home, when he

finally accepted our lives for what they were he was much happier and

for a while so was I but I was tired and resentful that I was so

alone durring that long time. We went to a seminar for parents of

children with disabilities and he stood up and told everyone what he

did and how sorry he was for leaving me all alone to deal with the

boys. I hope Shaun will come to his senses soon but only you know how

much is too much and you need to do what is best for you and the

girls as well as Shaun.

Jacquie H

> I think I might actually hate my husband. No, actually, while I am

really

> pissed off at him, I don't think I even hate him. I really just

don't like

> him at all. Hate is too emotional to qualify as what I am

feeling. I don't

> even feel THAT much.

>

> Lately, he's been going out a lot. He has made a new friend,

another

> doctor, who is an orthodontist. The thing with orthos is that they

see

> about 30-40 pts/day, and they only work 2-3 days a week. This

means that

> this man takes off more days in a week than he works. So, he hangs

around

> and plays golf, has dinner out with his friends, and goes drinking

with

> friends at night, late into the night, since most days, he does not

have to

> work in the morning.

>

> The man is 40 years old. He and his wife have two children, age 8

and 2, I

> believe. Well, she is a prosthodontist, and she works too. But -

this is

> the kind of couple where they have a live-in nanny, and they do as

they

> please. When he is out doing what he does, she is often out in SF

hanging

> out with HER friends. OK, so in other words, they live " the grand

life. "

> While I acknowledge that this is an envious way to live - - I never

wanted

> to live like that once I got married. I mean, if I were going to

live like

> I was single after being married - - I would have just stayed

single. If I

> were going to drop everything off on a nanny so I can go play, I

would not

> have had kids. Yes, their lives are much more freer than ours, and

from the

> outside, it looks liberating and fun. But that was never what I

wanted.

>

> That said, this man has taken a liking to Shaun and " took him under

his

> wing " . They have been hanging out a lot, and my husband - who has

been a

> total homebody - is now going out during the week, staying out till

1 AM, 2

> AM.. and once even until 3 AM.

> I have, up to this point, been the kind of wife that ALWAYS said

yes when he

> wanted to go out with his friends. I have, up to this point,

enjoyed my

> time alone when he goes out. Amongst his friends, I am the only

wife that

> is always open to having people over, or letting the men " out " to

go and

> hang out. I am the one who cooks all 10 of them a meal when they

want... I

> am the one who convinces the other wives to let the men go out, and

about

> how they need to relieve some stress by getting together once in

awhile.

> But now, he's pushed me over MY limit.

>

> Last night, he called and said he would have dinner out and a beer

with some

> friends of his. I asked if this ortho would be there, he told me

no. Then,

> he came home at 2 AM. I don't know if this man was there, but

suffice it to

> say that my husband never comes home at this time of night unless

this man

> was present. At least not in the last 5 years.

>

> Is it that I think he's having an affair with some woman? No.

> But I think he's going through some kind of phase where he wants to

live

> like this friend. Have no commitments, obligations, and do as he

pleases.

> If it's a phase, it should pass, right? Except, I have no

intentions of

> letting him live out this phase. I would rather kick him out of

the house

> and be rid of him than to live this phase out. Unbeknownst to him,

and

> quite unfortunately, we don't have the kind of life where he has

the luxury

> of going through phases such as this. We have two autistic

children that

> need so many things, and even with both of us working hard to get

them those

> things - - it STILL may not be enough. We have finances to take

care of, we

> have responsibilities to our parents, we have a life to create and

adjust

> to, with autism in it. In short, WE do not and can not live the

kind of

> life that he is being exposed to. Even if we could, I choose not

to.

> I'm more than willing to let him pick and choose which life he

wants. But

> it's mandatory that he get the hell out of my house if he chooses

any other

> life. What he fails to understand, it seems, is that if he does

not come

> home for dinner, if he is not here at the kids' bedtime, if he is

not with

> them for at least an hour or two a day, if he doesn't spend

downtime with me

> more often than not, if he is not HERE - - he serves absolutely no

purpose

> to us.

> I've told him this only last week. And this week, he's now done it

again.

>

> This is not to say that all men serve no purpose if they aren't

home. But

> with our kids, with our lives - - he needs to be here. I need him

to be

> here. Shaun does not DO enough in the background to get away with

not being

> here. Granted, it's not easy to do that much in the background

with my

> kids, but still - - - I can't allow him to not be here and still

live here.

>

> The worst part? When did I ask for my SIMS game? Do I have it

yet? No.

> Yes, I could go out and buy it myself. But that is not the point.

It's the

> principle of the matter now. And in January - (Jan 10th or so), I

> specifically asked him to bring back my blow dryer from the

practice. For

> weeks now, I've asked him to bring home some Microsoft program CD's

from his

> practice so I can uninstall the garbage he loaded my laptop with,

and last

> night - I asked him to buy bread and Kern's nectar for the kids,

on his way

> home. When he called to ask if he could go out, he specifically

told me

> that he would, however, buy the stuff I asked for on his way home.

Would he

> be late, I asked? No, he replied. Like I said, he came home at 2

AM.

> And did I find bread in the kitchen, juice in the fridge?

>

> No.

>

> Once again, my kids and I were put on the back burner, and once

again, he

> did not do as he said he would. He wasn't home on time, and he did

not even

> meet their needs, never mind mine.

> I've lost my kids and now I'm losing my marriage. Everything is

just

> falling apart and the strangest thing is, I don't really mind. My

husband

> is a good man, and he can be the nicest person in the world. His

bad side

> is not so bad, and his good sides are pretty great. But it's been

awhile

> since I've stopped wanting to be married PERIOD. He has no idea how

> comfortable life would be if it were just " me and the girls " .....

and he has

> no idea how much his recent behavior makes me wish he just wouldn't

come

> home anymore because I simply do not need more cause for worry. I

just wish

> he'd disappear.

>

>

>

> Grace

> Mom to twin girls Sydney and Madison

> Born 3/28/98

> Wife to Shaun 1/11/97

> Reply to: gracekeh@a...

[Guest guest]

Wow Grace. How I can TOTALLY relate to EVERYTHING you've just said, and I

totally and completely agree with you.

I guess now you really have to decide what Shaun wants. Is this a phase? Is

this his way of dealing with things? Relieving stress? Like you said,

that's all fine and good for him...but if that's what he chooses then he'll

have to do it on his own.

I think you have a wonderful marriage, Grace. I know Shaun loves his

daughters...and I'm sure what he's doing now is the equivalent of you saying

" I just can't take Autism ANYMORE!!!! " ...

He will have to realize that while he is out " relieving stress " and living

vicariously thru his friends, that the rest of his family is home still

coping with " real life " .

I feel like you do at times too...Single would be so much easier, BECAUSE

then I would know that *I* would have to do everything. Right now I expect

it to be 50/50 and when it's not, it makes me very, very angry.

Let us know how things are going...dont' let this bottle up inside. I think

Shaun needs to understand FULLY how you feel before it's too late.

JMHO.

Penny

[Guest guest]

Grace

So sorry to hear that you are having problems. I think that even if

this is Shaun's way of 'escaping' the autism that he is being selfish

and should be there for you and the girls. Talking is always better

than running away and it is his responsibility to be a good husband

and father...If your marriage is worth salvaging, talk to him...make

him listen...tie him down if you have too...just make sure he

realises where things are going if he doesn't stop acting/living like

a single man...

(((hugs to you and your girls)))

(inAus) who does it alone and knows it's not easy

> I think I might actually hate my husband. No, actually, while I am

really

> pissed off at him, I don't think I even hate him. I really just

don't like

> him at all. Hate is too emotional to qualify as what I am

feeling. I don't

> even feel THAT much.

>

> Lately, he's been going out a lot. He has made a new friend,

another

> doctor, who is an orthodontist. The thing with orthos is that they

see

> about 30-40 pts/day, and they only work 2-3 days a week. This

means that

> this man takes off more days in a week than he works. So, he hangs

around

> and plays golf, has dinner out with his friends, and goes drinking

with

> friends at night, late into the night, since most days, he does not

have to

> work in the morning.

>

> The man is 40 years old. He and his wife have two children, age 8

and 2, I

> believe. Well, she is a prosthodontist, and she works too. But -

this is

> the kind of couple where they have a live-in nanny, and they do as

they

> please. When he is out doing what he does, she is often out in SF

hanging

> out with HER friends. OK, so in other words, they live " the grand

life. "

> While I acknowledge that this is an envious way to live - - I never

wanted

> to live like that once I got married. I mean, if I were going to

live like

> I was single after being married - - I would have just stayed

single. If I

> were going to drop everything off on a nanny so I can go play, I

would not

> have had kids. Yes, their lives are much more freer than ours, and

from the

> outside, it looks liberating and fun. But that was never what I

wanted.

>

> That said, this man has taken a liking to Shaun and " took him under

his

> wing " . They have been hanging out a lot, and my husband - who has

been a

> total homebody - is now going out during the week, staying out till

1 AM, 2

> AM.. and once even until 3 AM.

> I have, up to this point, been the kind of wife that ALWAYS said

yes when he

> wanted to go out with his friends. I have, up to this point,

enjoyed my

> time alone when he goes out. Amongst his friends, I am the only

wife that

> is always open to having people over, or letting the men " out " to

go and

> hang out. I am the one who cooks all 10 of them a meal when they

want... I

> am the one who convinces the other wives to let the men go out, and

about

> how they need to relieve some stress by getting together once in

awhile.

> But now, he's pushed me over MY limit.

>

> Last night, he called and said he would have dinner out and a beer

with some

> friends of his. I asked if this ortho would be there, he told me

no. Then,

> he came home at 2 AM. I don't know if this man was there, but

suffice it to

> say that my husband never comes home at this time of night unless

this man

> was present. At least not in the last 5 years.

>

> Is it that I think he's having an affair with some woman? No.

> But I think he's going through some kind of phase where he wants to

live

> like this friend. Have no commitments, obligations, and do as he

pleases.

> If it's a phase, it should pass, right? Except, I have no

intentions of

> letting him live out this phase. I would rather kick him out of

the house

> and be rid of him than to live this phase out. Unbeknownst to him,

and

> quite unfortunately, we don't have the kind of life where he has

the luxury

> of going through phases such as this. We have two autistic

children that

> need so many things, and even with both of us working hard to get

them those

> things - - it STILL may not be enough. We have finances to take

care of, we

> have responsibilities to our parents, we have a life to create and

adjust

> to, with autism in it. In short, WE do not and can not live the

kind of

> life that he is being exposed to. Even if we could, I choose not

to.

> I'm more than willing to let him pick and choose which life he

wants. But

> it's mandatory that he get the hell out of my house if he chooses

any other

> life. What he fails to understand, it seems, is that if he does

not come

> home for dinner, if he is not here at the kids' bedtime, if he is

not with

> them for at least an hour or two a day, if he doesn't spend

downtime with me

> more often than not, if he is not HERE - - he serves absolutely no

purpose

> to us.

> I've told him this only last week. And this week, he's now done it

again.

>

> This is not to say that all men serve no purpose if they aren't

home. But

> with our kids, with our lives - - he needs to be here. I need him

to be

> here. Shaun does not DO enough in the background to get away with

not being

> here. Granted, it's not easy to do that much in the background

with my

> kids, but still - - - I can't allow him to not be here and still

live here.

>

> The worst part? When did I ask for my SIMS game? Do I have it

yet? No.

> Yes, I could go out and buy it myself. But that is not the point.

It's the

> principle of the matter now. And in January - (Jan 10th or so), I

> specifically asked him to bring back my blow dryer from the

practice. For

> weeks now, I've asked him to bring home some Microsoft program CD's

from his

> practice so I can uninstall the garbage he loaded my laptop with,

and last

> night - I asked him to buy bread and Kern's nectar for the kids,

on his way

> home. When he called to ask if he could go out, he specifically

told me

> that he would, however, buy the stuff I asked for on his way home.

Would he

> be late, I asked? No, he replied. Like I said, he came home at 2

AM.

> And did I find bread in the kitchen, juice in the fridge?

>

> No.

>

> Once again, my kids and I were put on the back burner, and once

again, he

> did not do as he said he would. He wasn't home on time, and he did

not even

> meet their needs, never mind mine.

> I've lost my kids and now I'm losing my marriage. Everything is

just

> falling apart and the strangest thing is, I don't really mind. My

husband

> is a good man, and he can be the nicest person in the world. His

bad side

> is not so bad, and his good sides are pretty great. But it's been

awhile

> since I've stopped wanting to be married PERIOD. He has no idea how

> comfortable life would be if it were just " me and the girls " .....

and he has

> no idea how much his recent behavior makes me wish he just wouldn't

come

> home anymore because I simply do not need more cause for worry. I

just wish

> he'd disappear.

>

>

>

> Grace

> Mom to twin girls Sydney and Madison

> Born 3/28/98

> Wife to Shaun 1/11/97

> Reply to: gracekeh@a...

[Guest guest]

Grace,

Sorry to hear this is where you're at. I kind of understand the feeling

though. I think you really need to spell it out for him how serious things

are getting for you...and don't throw in the towel unless you are completely

sure that's what you want to do!

Sue

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[Guest guest]

--- Mimi Holl wrote:

Oh, Grace, I'm sorry to hear that you are going

through this with . It does sound like he is

wanting to live the kind of life his buddy does..but I

think he needs a wakeup call..you've got to just sit

him down and tell him that you and the girls need

him..and if he wants to be part of your

lives..well..he's got to be there for all of you...all

the time.<<<<

I agree with Mimi. You two need to talk before it

gets any worse. Sorry you have to deal with this,

hon.

Tuna ... sending good vibes your way.

=====

" Blessed is the influence of one true loving

human soul on another. "

- Eliot

______________________________________________________________________

Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca

[Guest guest]

I am so sorry Grace. It does sound like some kind of

phase, but it is UNACCEPTABLE! He really needs to

understand that. Would he be open to some kind of

marriage counseling. Disabilities are very hard on

marriages. I know the place Ebony gets therapy out of

is always having some kind of seminar for the parents

and several have been on marriage and how to make it

work. But counselling only works if both parties are

willing to work with it.

I hope your marriage works out, Grace. It may seem

easier and less stressful to be single, but having

been there.....it's not. It is hard and lonely.

Good luck to you and Shaun,

Tamara

--- Grace Keh wrote:

> I think I might actually hate my husband. No,

> actually, while I am really

> pissed off at him, I don't think I even hate him. I

> really just don't like

> him at all. Hate is too emotional to qualify as

> what I am feeling. I don't

> even feel THAT much.

>

> Lately, he's been going out a lot. He has made a

> new friend, another

> doctor, who is an orthodontist. The thing with

> orthos is that they see

> about 30-40 pts/day, and they only work 2-3 days a

> week. This means that

> this man takes off more days in a week than he

> works. So, he hangs around

> and plays golf, has dinner out with his friends, and

> goes drinking with

> friends at night, late into the night, since most

> days, he does not have to

> work in the morning.

>

> The man is 40 years old. He and his wife have two

> children, age 8 and 2, I

> believe. Well, she is a prosthodontist, and she

> works too. But - this is

> the kind of couple where they have a live-in nanny,

> and they do as they

> please. When he is out doing what he does, she is

> often out in SF hanging

> out with HER friends. OK, so in other words, they

> live " the grand life. "

> While I acknowledge that this is an envious way to

> live - - I never wanted

> to live like that once I got married. I mean, if I

> were going to live like

> I was single after being married - - I would have

> just stayed single. If I

> were going to drop everything off on a nanny so I

> can go play, I would not

> have had kids. Yes, their lives are much more freer

> than ours, and from the

> outside, it looks liberating and fun. But that was

> never what I wanted.

>

> That said, this man has taken a liking to Shaun and

> " took him under his

> wing " . They have been hanging out a lot, and my

> husband - who has been a

> total homebody - is now going out during the week,

> staying out till 1 AM, 2

> AM.. and once even until 3 AM.

> I have, up to this point, been the kind of wife that

> ALWAYS said yes when he

> wanted to go out with his friends. I have, up to

> this point, enjoyed my

> time alone when he goes out. Amongst his friends, I

> am the only wife that

> is always open to having people over, or letting the

> men " out " to go and

> hang out. I am the one who cooks all 10 of them a

> meal when they want... I

> am the one who convinces the other wives to let the

> men go out, and about

> how they need to relieve some stress by getting

> together once in awhile.

> But now, he's pushed me over MY limit.

>

> Last night, he called and said he would have dinner

> out and a beer with some

> friends of his. I asked if this ortho would be

> there, he told me no. Then,

> he came home at 2 AM. I don't know if this man was

> there, but suffice it to

> say that my husband never comes home at this time of

> night unless this man

> was present. At least not in the last 5 years.

>

> Is it that I think he's having an affair with some

> woman? No.

> But I think he's going through some kind of phase

> where he wants to live

> like this friend. Have no commitments, obligations,

> and do as he pleases.

> If it's a phase, it should pass, right? Except, I

> have no intentions of

> letting him live out this phase. I would rather

> kick him out of the house

> and be rid of him than to live this phase out.

> Unbeknownst to him, and

> quite unfortunately, we don't have the kind of life

> where he has the luxury

> of going through phases such as this. We have two

> autistic children that

> need so many things, and even with both of us

> working hard to get them those

> things - - it STILL may not be enough. We have

> finances to take care of, we

> have responsibilities to our parents, we have a life

> to create and adjust

> to, with autism in it. In short, WE do not and can

> not live the kind of

> life that he is being exposed to. Even if we could,

> I choose not to.

> I'm more than willing to let him pick and choose

> which life he wants. But

> it's mandatory that he get the hell out of my house

> if he chooses any other

> life. What he fails to understand, it seems, is

> that if he does not come

> home for dinner, if he is not here at the kids'

> bedtime, if he is not with

> them for at least an hour or two a day, if he

> doesn't spend downtime with me

> more often than not, if he is not HERE - - he serves

> absolutely no purpose

> to us.

> I've told him this only last week. And this week,

> he's now done it again.

>

> This is not to say that all men serve no purpose if

> they aren't home. But

> with our kids, with our lives - - he needs to be

> here. I need him to be

> here. Shaun does not DO enough in the background to

> get away with not being

> here. Granted, it's not easy to do that much in the

> background with my

> kids, but still - - - I can't allow him to not be

> here and still live here.

>

> The worst part? When did I ask for my SIMS game? Do

> I have it yet? No.

> Yes, I could go out and buy it myself. But that is

> not the point. It's the

> principle of the matter now. And in January - (Jan

> 10th or so), I

> specifically asked him to bring back my blow dryer

> from the practice. For

> weeks now, I've asked him to bring home some

> Microsoft program CD's from his

> practice so I can uninstall the garbage he loaded my

> laptop with, and last

> night - I asked him to buy bread and Kern's nectar

> for the kids, on his way

> home. When he called to ask if he could go out, he

> specifically told me

> that he would, however, buy the stuff I asked for on

> his way home. Would he

> be late, I asked? No, he replied. Like I said, he

> came home at 2 AM.

> And did I find bread in the kitchen, juice in the

> fridge?

>

> No.

>

> Once again, my kids and I were put on the back

> burner, and once again, he

> did not do as he said he would. He wasn't home on

> time, and he did not even

> meet their needs, never mind mine.

> I've lost my kids and now I'm losing my marriage.

> Everything is just

> falling apart and the strangest thing is, I don't

> really mind. My husband

> is a good man, and he can be the nicest person in

> the world. His bad side

> is not so bad, and his good sides are pretty great.

> But it's been awhile

> since I've stopped wanting to be married PERIOD. He

> has no idea how

> comfortable life would be if it were just " me and

> the girls " ..... and he has

> no idea how much his recent behavior makes me wish

> he just wouldn't come

> home anymore because I simply do not need more cause

> for worry. I just wish

> he'd disappear.

>

>

>

> Grace

> Mom to twin girls Sydney and Madison

> Born 3/28/98

> Wife to Shaun 1/11/97

> Reply to: gracekeh@...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> I think I might actually hate my husband. No, actually, while I am

> really pissed off at him, I don't think I even hate him. I really

> just don't like him at all. Hate is too emotional to qualify as

> what I am feeling. I don't even feel THAT much.>>

You're shutting down emotionally...that's not real good. Comes from

the constant stress and from resentment over a long time,

IMO...BTDT. And, it's not real good, for either you or your marriage.

> Is it that I think he's having an affair with some woman? No.

> But I think he's going through some kind of phase where he wants to

live

> like this friend. Have no commitments, obligations, and do as he

pleases.>>

Mid-life crisis? Lost dreams...running smack into the reality that

what you thought you wanted will probably never happen, even though

there are people all around you getting exactly that without even

trying.

>> Shaun does not DO enough in the background to get away with not

being here.>>

But he may think he does, Grace. My husband is that way. He's never

here, and even when he is, he isn't " available " for helping, unless

gets dangerous (and even then, he's not happy about it). He's

relatively useless 98% of the time, but in his head, he's way lots of

help. I think it has to do with preconceived ideas about

men's/women's roles in a marriage, a lack of understanding of what it

really takes to be the main caretaker for a child(ren) with autism

(and in my case...an unwillingness to learn), and unfortunately,

being more focussed on his needs than on his responsibilities.

> I've lost my kids and now I'm losing my marriage. Everything is

just

> falling apart and the strangest thing is, I don't really mind. My

husband

> is a good man, and he can be the nicest person in the world. His

bad side

> is not so bad, and his good sides are pretty great. But it's been

awhile

> since I've stopped wanting to be married PERIOD. He has no idea how

> comfortable life would be if it were just " me and the girls " .....

and he has

> no idea how much his recent behavior makes me wish he just wouldn't

come

> home anymore because I simply do not need more cause for worry. I

just wish

> he'd disappear.>>

Yeah, I know this feeling, too. But Grace, remember...autism brings

out both the best and the worst in all of us. Shaun seems like a

pretty nice guy, from your descriptions, and it does appear that he

is trying to come up with a way of contributing ( " special needs day " )

to the overall need. Maybe he is just not able right now to cope

with the idea that his kids are where they are; but he does seem to

be reaching out in a general (safe?) way to help kids with

autism...maybe that's a first step in coming to a place where he can

cope at home? All I'm saying is...men go through the grief stuff,

too, and they do it differently than we do...

I don't know what to tell you by way of advice, Grace...marriage is

so personal and so hard in the best of cases. Autism most certainly

doesn't qualify as the best of cases. I can only think of a handful

of folks who are not single moms with autistic kids...and I know a

lot of women with autistic kids. But I do know a few---and the ones

who seem to be able to make it are the ones who have the good sense

to share the load fairly. Shaun does appear to have the potential to

be that kind of husband, from things you've said earlier, but only

you can decide what does and doesn't work for you guys...I wouldn't

presume to know.

I saw some expert on TV last night who was talking about marriages

over the long haul, and she said that the people who have marriages

that last *always* go through a bad period like this, where they are

just on the edge of giving it all up...but that a few years later,

they are way glad they didn't. I don't know if that applies to you

(heck, I don't know if it applies to me...), but at least it's

another viewpoint.

Good luck with whatever you decide...wish I was more help.

Raena

[Guest guest]

I've heard that too about all marriages that last

having a bad period and I also remember that it is

around the five year mark. Aren't you guys around

that time frame? Just a thought. I still think some

sort of counselling would be appropriate.

Tamara

--- rgr4us wrote:

>

> > I think I might actually hate my husband. No,

> actually, while I am

> > really pissed off at him, I don't think I even

> hate him. I really

> > just don't like him at all. Hate is too emotional

> to qualify as

> > what I am feeling. I don't even feel THAT much.>>

>

> You're shutting down emotionally...that's not real

> good. Comes from

> the constant stress and from resentment over a long

> time,

> IMO...BTDT. And, it's not real good, for either you

> or your marriage.

>

>

> > Is it that I think he's having an affair with some

> woman? No.

> > But I think he's going through some kind of phase

> where he wants to

> live

> > like this friend. Have no commitments,

> obligations, and do as he

> pleases.>>

>

> Mid-life crisis? Lost dreams...running smack into

> the reality that

> what you thought you wanted will probably never

> happen, even though

> there are people all around you getting exactly that

> without even

> trying.

>

>

> >> Shaun does not DO enough in the background to get

> away with not

> being here.>>

>

> But he may think he does, Grace. My husband is that

> way. He's never

> here, and even when he is, he isn't " available " for

> helping, unless

> gets dangerous (and even then, he's not happy

> about it). He's

> relatively useless 98% of the time, but in his head,

> he's way lots of

> help. I think it has to do with preconceived ideas

> about

> men's/women's roles in a marriage, a lack of

> understanding of what it

> really takes to be the main caretaker for a

> child(ren) with autism

> (and in my case...an unwillingness to learn), and

> unfortunately,

> being more focussed on his needs than on his

> responsibilities.

>

>

> > I've lost my kids and now I'm losing my marriage.

> Everything is

> just

> > falling apart and the strangest thing is, I don't

> really mind. My

> husband

> > is a good man, and he can be the nicest person in

> the world. His

> bad side

> > is not so bad, and his good sides are pretty

> great. But it's been

> awhile

> > since I've stopped wanting to be married PERIOD.

> He has no idea how

> > comfortable life would be if it were just " me and

> the girls " .....

> and he has

> > no idea how much his recent behavior makes me wish

> he just wouldn't

> come

> > home anymore because I simply do not need more

> cause for worry. I

> just wish

> > he'd disappear.>>

>

>

> Yeah, I know this feeling, too. But Grace,

> remember...autism brings

> out both the best and the worst in all of us. Shaun

> seems like a

> pretty nice guy, from your descriptions, and it does

> appear that he

> is trying to come up with a way of contributing

> ( " special needs day " )

> to the overall need. Maybe he is just not able

> right now to cope

> with the idea that his kids are where they are; but

> he does seem to

> be reaching out in a general (safe?) way to help

> kids with

> autism...maybe that's a first step in coming to a

> place where he can

> cope at home? All I'm saying is...men go through

> the grief stuff,

> too, and they do it differently than we do...

>

> I don't know what to tell you by way of advice,

> Grace...marriage is

> so personal and so hard in the best of cases.

> Autism most certainly

> doesn't qualify as the best of cases. I can only

> think of a handful

> of folks who are not single moms with autistic

> kids...and I know a

> lot of women with autistic kids. But I do know a

> few---and the ones

> who seem to be able to make it are the ones who have

> the good sense

> to share the load fairly. Shaun does appear to have

> the potential to

> be that kind of husband, from things you've said

> earlier, but only

> you can decide what does and doesn't work for you

> guys...I wouldn't

> presume to know.

>

> I saw some expert on TV last night who was talking

> about marriages

> over the long haul, and she said that the people who

> have marriages

> that last *always* go through a bad period like

> this, where they are

> just on the edge of giving it all up...but that a

> few years later,

> they are way glad they didn't. I don't know if that

> applies to you

> (heck, I don't know if it applies to me...), but at

> least it's

> another viewpoint.

>

> Good luck with whatever you decide...wish I was more

> help.

>

> Raena

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> I've heard that too about all marriages that last

> having a bad period and I also remember that it is

> around the five year mark. Aren't you guys around

> that time frame?

Last year was my 5th anniversary, and the whole year leading up to it was shit.

Empirical data?

Jacquie

-whose 6th anniversary is February 16!

[Guest guest]

>

I am sure that what I envision to be only

>freedom and good times is not as great as it actually would be.

Some of it is great. Your things are YOUR things, when a mess is made, you

know that only you are responsible for it. BUT, it is hard being the ONLY

responsible one. I was too afraid to have a beer. I didn't sleep for the

first few months, because I was the only one there for emergencies. There

was no one to back me up when I made a decision, and the kids really ran all

over me. I admit that I am a wimp, but it really got out of hand. Anyways,

the quiet was nice but it got old really fast.

>

>I am not confident we'll make it. But what I seem to be losing is the

>drive

>to try and make it work for as long as I can. Maybe this is part of being

>depressed or exhausted.

It IS a part of depression. It was the same in me. It was months later,

when I was stable on medication that I realized my apathy was due to my

depression. It is good that you see that as a possibility now. You saw a

doc didn't you? What was the result of that?

I don't know.

>I understand what he's doing and why. More often than not, I have the same

>urge. But there is quite difference between thinking and not acting on it,

>and thinking and actually going for it. (

Exactly! Cam acted on it too, but we can't. Must be part of being a woman,

I don't know. I felt guilty for wanting to act on it and I felt jealous

that Cam could with impunity. Not fair.

>

>I will talk to him. If I ever talk to him again, that is LOL.

I think you should talk to him, as hard as it will be. The hard part with

Cam and I was that he didn't realize how much he was hurting our

relationship, and I had no idea how much my depression was causing him to

act the way he did. We all run away in different ways. Sad, but true.

>

>Thank you, Amy!

>So... how goes it with you and Cam?

>

It goes very well with us. We both made important changes and I learned to

give up some of the stupid issues. Very hard for a control freak like me to

do. Really, my meds helped, his maturing helped. He is much more available

in all ways, and I am much more receptive. I don't know what else to tell

you Grace. I hope that it works out the way you want it to.

Hugs,

Amy H--in Michigan

Kepler 4 1/2 ASD and Bethany 6 NT

" There is so much good in the worst of us, and so much bad in the best of

us, that it behooves all of us not to talk about the rest of us. " ~

Louis son

_________________________________________________________________

Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

[Guest guest]

>

> > I've heard that too about all marriages that last

> > having a bad period and I also remember that it is

> > around the five year mark. Aren't you guys around

> > that time frame?

>

>Last year was my 5th anniversary, and the whole year leading up to it was

>shit.

>

Last year was my 5th anniversary as well, and most of you know what

happened! We celebrated our 6th on Feb. 3rd.

Amy H

_________________________________________________________________

Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

[Guest guest]

We've been married 11 1/2 years...

today he's bugging the CRAP out of me..

It seems I'm not doing ANYTHING unless I'm A)doing what he wants me to do or

doing what he thinks I should be doing...

AND I have to be right next to him the whole time...It's like unless we're right

next to each other... " I don't want to do anything "

And really.. I just want to curl up and read my book or watch my TV show I taped

on TV..which he thinks is silly ....

I think I need a full week alone...with my books, a TV ...a few DVD's and a

massage therapist...and a bartender..

Is this too much to ask??

(everyone just leave me alone, I think that's what I'm trying to say!)

Kerri

Re: Re: I don't think I like him anymore.

> I've heard that too about all marriages that last

> having a bad period and I also remember that it is

> around the five year mark. Aren't you guys around

> that time frame?

Last year was my 5th anniversary, and the whole year leading up to it was

shit.

Empirical data?

Jacquie

-whose 6th anniversary is February 16!

[Guest guest]

> Mid-life crisis? Lost dreams...running smack into the reality that

> what you thought you wanted will probably never happen, even though

> there are people all around you getting exactly that without even

> trying.

>

Can a man have a midlife crisis at 32?

How many of these midlife crises will he have to have before he dies then?

LOL

I know.... so in other words, he feels exactly like I feel, 2 years AFTER

the fact. Great.

> But he may think he does, Grace. My husband is that way. He's never

> here, and even when he is, he isn't " available " for helping, unless

> gets dangerous (and even then, he's not happy about it).

DID SHAUN e-MAIL YOU?????????????? How did you know that he actually

BELIEVES he does??????????????

> He's

> relatively useless 98% of the time, but in his head, he's way lots of

> help. I think it has to do with preconceived ideas about

> men's/women's roles in a marriage, a lack of understanding of what it

> really takes to be the main caretaker for a child(ren) with autism

> (and in my case...an unwillingness to learn), and unfortunately,

> being more focussed on his needs than on his responsibilities.

>

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's like this..... he has autistic kids, and he does so much more now than

what he THOUGHT he would be doing when he got married with kids. In other

words, he thought he could sit on the couch with a remote and be served

dinner and receive foot massages or something. NOW, he actually has to get

up and brush their teeth, tuck them in with me. OOOOOH, tough job. Or he

actually has to bathe his own children, what a MAN! Or he changes a

diaper - - PERFECT FATHER.

It's like... how stupid can you possibly BE?

So... how do you teach him/them that this is not it? That this is nowhere

near enough?

> cope at home? All I'm saying is...men go through the grief stuff,

> too, and they do it differently than we do...

>

Should the grief be hitting him NOW? I mean, I am on the tail end of it

now. We've dealt with this for almost 3 years now. Please, after all this

time, he has to pull this NOW? This is about the time I am coming out of my

fullblown grief stage, getting my act together, got them in school, getting

the home program started - - it's supposed to be a time of newfound hope for

our girls.

Instead, I'd be sitting here sobbing my heart out if I didn't have this list

to vent to.

Like tonight - - he left. And I stood there, thinking who on earth could I

talk to about this.... and there was NOBODY. I don't want to worry my

parents. I don't want to even speak to his. And friends??? Either their

lives are too damn perfect, or just as bad as mine, that I can't even speak

to them!!!

So what did I do - - - I e-mailed.

> lot of women with autistic kids. But I do know a few---and the ones

> who seem to be able to make it are the ones who have the good sense

> to share the load fairly. Shaun does appear to have the potential to

> be that kind of husband, from things you've said earlier, but only

> you can decide what does and doesn't work for you guys...I wouldn't

> presume to know.

I thought that too.

I am really not sure anymore. I don't feel like he is. He would swear on

his mother's life, his own life, etc, that he will never run out on us. He

swears he will always be here for me. He swears he loves me more now than

he could have ever imagined before.

And yet..... look at me now. Lot of good that did me.

I don't know. Everything may be peachy again one day soon, or not. But

it's safe to say that I can't even begin to make a guess as to what my

future holds, both where my husband and kids are concerned. I just don't

know anything.

> I saw some expert on TV last night who was talking about marriages

> over the long haul, and she said that the people who have marriages

> that last *always* go through a bad period like this, where they are

> just on the edge of giving it all up...but that a few years later,

> they are way glad they didn't. I don't know if that applies to you

> (heck, I don't know if it applies to me...), but at least it's

> another viewpoint.

> Good luck with whatever you decide...wish I was more help.

Are you kidding, Raena?

You, as always, are a tremendous help to me, both spiritually and

emotionally.

Thank you for always handing me wise words.... just when I need them most.

Grace

[Guest guest]

> I've heard that too about all marriages that last

> having a bad period and I also remember that it is

> around the five year mark. Aren't you guys around

> that time frame? Just a thought. I still think some

> sort of counselling would be appropriate.

Tamara - - -

January 11th of this year WAS our five year anniversary.

<sigh>

[Guest guest]

> Last year was my 5th anniversary, and the whole year leading up to it was

shit.

>

> Empirical data?

IT WAS?????? Between you and Marc- - not you and !!!?

>

> Jacquie

> -whose 6th anniversary is February 16!

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY, ahead of time, Jacquie!

Six years.... whoa. ()

>appplaaauuussseeee!!!<<<<

Grace

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Last year was my 5th anniversary as well, and most of you know what

> happened! We celebrated our 6th on Feb. 3rd.

>

Really now.... interesting, Amy!

And Happy belated Anniversary to you and Cam!

We have quite a few February / winter brides on this list!

Grace

[Guest guest]

> Is this too much to ask??

>

No.

Wilkes-Barre? April 23rd? One week? Bar? Book? Massage?

yes?

OH COME ON!!!

Grace

[Guest guest]

Wow. Grace, I truly have no idea what to say, other than you are in my thoughts

and prayers!! I hope things work out it whatever manner becomes the most

liveable/workable for your familiy!!

>

>

>

>

>

--

...

Mom to:

, 3.5, My Monster Man, my bubby

(Mixed Expressive/Receptive Language Disorder, Disruptive Behavior

Disorder-NOS)

, 1.5, Beffers, my bitty girl

(NT, and ridiculously funny around a camera)

" For every bad door that opens, a door opens for something good. Eventually,

you'll get to that door, and it may only be small, but more good doors will

follow...Be patient... " -Jeanne Swanney, my grandmother.

__________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

What the...? Massage? Did I miss something?!!!

Tamara

--- Grace Keh wrote:

> > Is this too much to ask??

> >

>

>

>

>

> No.

>

>

> Wilkes-Barre? April 23rd? One week? Bar? Book?

> Massage?

>

>

> yes?

>

> OH COME ON!!!

>

> Grace

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Yup! My anniversary (number 1) is on Feb 21!

Very exciting!!

Tamara

--- Grace Keh wrote:

> >

> > Last year was my 5th anniversary as well, and most

> of you know what

> > happened! We celebrated our 6th on Feb. 3rd.

> >

>

>

> Really now.... interesting, Amy!

> And Happy belated Anniversary to you and Cam!

>

> We have quite a few February / winter brides on this

> list!

>

> Grace

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

See!!!!!! I think it had to do with a last ditch

effort to maintain your own identity separate from

your family. My dh is on his third marriage. The

first two lasted five years. Go figure. Of course,

both of those women were abusive and dh was

drinking...he is a recovering alcoholic. But still,

seems like a pretty big cooincidence.

Think of it this way. You get through this year with

a lot of hard work and you should be o.k.

Tamara

--- Grace Keh wrote:

>

> > I've heard that too about all marriages that last

> > having a bad period and I also remember that it is

> > around the five year mark. Aren't you guys around

> > that time frame? Just a thought. I still think

> some

> > sort of counselling would be appropriate.

>

>

> Tamara - - -

>

> January 11th of this year WAS our five year

> anniversary.

> <sigh>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> > Last year was my 5th anniversary, and the whole year leading up to it was

> shit.

> >

> > Empirical data?

>

>

> IT WAS?????? Between you and Marc- - not you and !!!?

Yes. Absolutely. He made time for his friends, made time to work over time,

made NO time to be with me. I spent a lot of time screaming about it, and a

lot of time crying about it...

Now we don't have much more time for each other; he still works a lot and he

still sees his friends, but since I couldn't change HIM, I decided to change ME,

with a couple suggestions I got from him one night when I screamed, " what can

*I* change to make you happier??? "

Those changes are:

- I came to terms with, and accepted, my appearance. My self esteem improved,

as did his esteem of me.

- I created something for me outside home - the library

- I stopped telling him the negative things about my day when he came through

the door after work (VERY important -- made a HUGE difference in his attitude)

- I started making an effort to home-cook three meals a week for him. This

pleased him immensely.

When I started doing those things, he changed like this:

- he started complimenting my appearance

- he started LISTENING more when I talked

- he started taking more time with and giving me breaks

- he started doing more around the house

- he started talking to me a bit more

It was a HARD road. Until I got him to open up about what changes HE would like

to see, we got nowhere. As long as *I* was telling *him* what he needed to

change, things stayed exactly the same or got worse. Only when *I* decided to

change (which I didn't really want to do), did things improve.

> HAPPY ANNIVERSARY, ahead of time, Jacquie!

> Six years.... whoa. ()

>

> >appplaaauuussseeee!!!<<<<

Six years married and 13 years together.

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

>>>>>>>

I think I need a full week alone...with my books, a TV ...a few DVD's and a

massage therapist...and a bartender..

Is this too much to ask??

(everyone just leave me alone, I think that's what I'm trying to say!)

Kerri

<<<<<<<

NO! It's NOT too much to ask....Is there no way you can get to PA in

April???

{{{hugs}}} Kerri....I'm sure we ALL can relate to this one...(Just 1

day...please...just 1 day ALONE......yep...i get it)

Penny :-(

[Guest guest]

Happy Belated Anniversary, Amy!!

That must have been a very special day!

:-)

Penny