Re: Anyone here got a hoarder problem? I think I sorta do

[Guest guest]

Really interesting Terry. You've got me thinking. So I wonder what a self compassionate approach would be. Like you said 'I need help, and that's really okay.'

I do have some hoarder traits though. I used to hang on to anything with the slightest sentimental value. Over the past couple of years I've gotten better at letting go of " sentimental but not cherished " items. I had a close relative who was a hoarder. The sweet spot exercise showed me that the deep value of an item is the experience, the rich memory and feelings.

My mind would tie me in knots about an old birthday card from a relative. Keep it, chuck it, keep it, chuck it ------ put it back in the shoebox and give up!I'm also a recovering slob. : )       A direction I like is - simplifying and making things easier to find, store, locate. Not doing so well on that this week - getting ready for tax and assignments - books and stuff everywhere!

But that's me and not the same as the situation you describe. Anyhow, I'll be interested in your future posts. Is there a funny or creative side to this for you?

Grant

[Guest guest]

Sorry I mean, " in addition to being a bit of a hoarder, I'm a also a recovering slob. " : )G

[Guest guest]

Oh, thanks so much. Yes, self-compassion, creativity and humor are all in order

and funny how I " forget " about these when it comes to my own suffering! This

was hard to write and I'm so glad I did. It's so nice to just put it out there,

takes a lot of the 'badness' out. I hadn't realized just how heavy I was about

this, how I've been beating myself up about this. I'm acutely aware of the time

and energy wasted on gathering and organizing and so it's hard to look at

without feeling sad.

I really like the distinction between " sentimental but not cherished " ! I also

tend to travel heavy and carry a big purse full of stuff even for brief outings.

So it's been this sort of holding on for dear life going on for some time. And I

do notice the few times when I do go light how lovely it feels.

I'm asking myself: What may be possible with all this stuff gone? Why can't I do

that now? What if this was no longer a problem? What if I was one of those

people who can just let go of stuff, throw things out, travel lighter? What

function (role, purpose) does this stuff have for me?

But really, holding lightly and compassionately has absolutely been missing from

this whole endeavor, so thanks so much just for this reminder.

I'll keep you posted on how it's going. I do think it will be useful to discuss

this with someone compassionate and really hone in on some goals. Alone will be

much harder.

peace,

Terry

>

> Really interesting Terry. You've got me thinking.

>

> So I wonder what a self compassionate approach would be.

>

> Like you said 'I need help, and that's really okay.'

>

> I do have some hoarder traits though. I used to hang on to anything with the

> slightest sentimental value. Over the past couple of years I've gotten

> better at letting go of " sentimental but not cherished " items. I had a close

> relative who was a hoarder. The sweet spot exercise showed me that the deep

> value of an item is the experience, the rich memory and feelings.

>

> My mind would tie me in knots about an old birthday card from a relative.

> Keep it, chuck it, keep it, chuck it ------ put it back in the shoebox and

> give up!

>

> I'm also a recovering slob. : ) A direction I like is - simplifying

> and making things easier to find, store, locate. Not doing so well on that

> this week - getting ready for tax and assignments - books and stuff

> everywhere!

>

> But that's me and not the same as the situation you describe. Anyhow, I'll

> be interested in your future posts. Is there a funny or creative side to

> this for you?

>

> Grant

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Terry,

I've been following this thread with interest but haven't commented since I don't really identify with this particular issue (I have plenty of others!). I just wanted to pop in and suggest this link from the Vietnam Veterans of America - you schedule a pickup and they come out to pick up your stuff and leave you a receipt; you don't need to be home. I believe they sell the donations in their thrift shops at a very low price.

pickupplease.org

This program works in my area; you can try it and see if it will work in yours. I use it often and find it very convenient.

Happy de-cluttering!

Helena

> >> > Okay, embarrassing thing here..I have noticed recently clutter is building. And I don't think it's a new problem, but one I'm noticing more. And along with that, I notice I have a hard time letting go of stuff and figuring out who to give it to that will most benefit..I have some really nice clothes that just don't fit anymore and framed pictures and dishes, books and so on. > > > > If you live long enough, stuff accumulates. And space is limited!> > > > Is this OCD? Is this addiction? Is it both? Does it not matter?> > > > I need a good ACT therapist who specializes in this sort of thing. I am ready to let a lot of this go. I think I'm allowing myself to stall because I'm looking for "perfect home" for my things. Meanwhile, I've put myself on guard and nothing new can come in here unless I have a place for it. > > > > > > I'm so embarrassed. I used to have everything in control, was super duper organized..everyone knew me as such..I'm thinking maybe this is the flip side of a control issue. > > > > Sigh!> >>

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much Helena! Practical advice is very helpful to keep me moving

forward right now. I was looking for a home that either gave away or sold at

low prices. I think I found some shelters for abused women which may do this

also. So much need out there. I realized there was a strong value inside my

obsession to look for a good home for some of the better items and that this

itself is not so horrible, not something to beat myself up about so long as I

don't turn this into more avoidance as in " looking for the perfect place " . At

one point I will need to just pick a charity and hand it over and say bye-bye to

the things. Clearly someone will find use for it, even if I can't control who.

And that's a whole lot better than the use it's getting now, which is none!

I'm glad you are reading along even if you can't relate to the specific problem.

It's just so good to not be alone with this anymore. Apparently from what I'm

learning, a big part of this problem is the whole secrecy, " keeping it inside " .

I notice I even keep some shades shut because I'm afraid neighbors will see the

clutter and judge. Just not serving me in so many ways.

The larger issues I'm struggling with are more universal I'm thinking...about

letting go, about abdicating personal strength and power, about fear of what

will be there in the abyss, all the longing.

Thanks again for this great suggestion and the link.

Will keep you posted on how it's going!

Kind regards,

Terry

>

>

>

> Hi Terry,

>

>

>

> I've been following this thread with interest but haven't commented since

I don't really identify with this particular issue ( I have plenty of others!)

..  I just wanted to pop in and suggest this link from  th e Vietnam Veterans

of America - you schedule a pickup and they come out to pick up your stuff and

leave you a receipt; you don't need to be home.  I believe they sell the

donations in their thrift shops at a very low price.

>

>

>

> pickupplease.org

>

>

> This program works  in my area; you can try it and see if it will work in

yours.  I use it often and find it very convenient.

>

>

>

> Happy de-cluttering!

>

>

>

> Helena

>

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

>

>

> > >

> > > Okay, embarrassing thing here..I have noticed recently clutter is

building. And I don't think it's a new problem, but one I'm noticing more. And

along with that, I notice I have a hard time letting go of stuff and figuring

out who to give it to that will most benefit..I have some really nice clothes

that just don't fit anymore and framed pictures and dishes, books and so on.

> > >

> > > If you live long enough, stuff accumulates. And space is limited!

> > >

> > > Is this OCD? Is this addiction? Is it both? Does it not matter?

> > >

> > > I need a good ACT therapist who specializes in this sort of thing. I am

ready to let a lot of this go. I think I'm allowing myself to stall because I'm

looking for " perfect home " for my things. Meanwhile, I've put myself on guard

and nothing new can come in here unless I have a place for it.

> > >

> > >

> > > I'm so embarrassed. I used to have everything in control, was super duper

organized..everyone knew me as such..I'm thinking maybe this is the flip side of

a control issue.

> > >

> > > Sigh!

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Terry wrote:

> I'm now obsessing over the perfect charity now. The persons who

> will most benefit from this stuff. Mind is saying I can't just dump it

> all at Goodwill, because they charge too much now, so folks who

> might really want this stuff won't have access..and oh dear, see,

> that's a warning sign to me that I'm dug in deep.

>

> All suggestions, ideas, observations are welcome at this point!

Hi Terry,

I'm new to the group, having joined because I'm in an 8 week

study group using ACT for OCD. Your subject line caught my

attention because I'm active in a support group for folks with

hoarding disorder. Many of your observations sound a lot like

those of us in the group. The hyperresponsibility and scrupulosity

towards possessions you've described above are very familiar

themes in our group.

If you're going to donate, do it because you wish to and not

because you feel compelled to. If you feel you *must* find the

perfect charity to give your stuff to, see that the disorder is in

the driver's seat, not you. As one of our members says,

" donating while in this frame of mind will just further cement

your hoarding traits. Your are a worthwhile person just because

you exist and you do not have to prove or earn this status.

You cannot destroy it. "

Unless you are willing to confront perfectionistic or hyperresponsible

thinking such as " I must never waste " , " I have to recycle everything

perfectly " , " I need to find good homes for all the things I'm

discarding " , " If it's usable, I must donate it " and/or " I am responsible

for the caretaking of [this object] " -- your behavior toward things,

objects, stuff will continue to control you and rule your life.

> Is this OCD? Is this addiction? Is it both? Does it not matter?

It will probably be categorized as its own disorder under the umbrella

of Obsessive-Compulsive and Related Disorders in the upcoming

DSM-5. The proposed revision can be found here:

http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevision/Pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=398

I don't think it is helpful to view it as an addiction. Here's a

good exploration of why:

http://inside919.ning.com/profiles/blogs/is-hoarding-a-compulsion-or-an

> I need a good ACT therapist who specializes in this sort of thing.

> I am ready to let a lot of this go. I think I'm allowing myself to

> stall because I'm looking for " perfect home " for my things.

Yes, avoidance is one of the hallmarks of the disorder. I highly

recommend working with someone who is familiar with hoarding

disorder. A good place to start is the International OCD Foundation

(IOCDF) website: http://www.ocfoundation.org/hoarding/

Click on 'Help for Hoarding' and then 'Treatment Provider List' from

the pull-down menu.

I'm personally finding ACT to be very helpful for all of my OCD

symptoms, hoarding included. People with hoarding difficulties are

so often anxiously thinking of the past or future, so learning to be

fully in the present moment can be hugely helpful.

If you are interesting in joining us in the online support group,

here's our homepage: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/H-C/

Best to you,

--a

[Guest guest]

Welcome a! So glad you're here. Very useful feedback. Wow, a group that

applies ACT? If willing, would you share how you're applying specific ACT

processes to hoarding? ACT experience is certainly coming in handy,e.g.,helping

me distinguish between shoulds and values..more later..out the door.

kind regards,

Terry

>

> > I'm now obsessing over the perfect charity now. The persons who

> > will most benefit from this stuff. Mind is saying I can't just dump it

> > all at Goodwill, because they charge too much now, so folks who

> > might really want this stuff won't have access..and oh dear, see,

> > that's a warning sign to me that I'm dug in deep.

> >

> > All suggestions, ideas, observations are welcome at this point!

>

> Hi Terry,

>

> I'm new to the group, having joined because I'm in an 8 week

> study group using ACT for OCD. Your subject line caught my

> attention because I'm active in a support group for folks with

> hoarding disorder. Many of your observations sound a lot like

> those of us in the group. The hyperresponsibility and scrupulosity

> towards possessions you've described above are very familiar

> themes in our group.

>

> If you're going to donate, do it because you wish to and not

> because you feel compelled to. If you feel you *must* find the

> perfect charity to give your stuff to, see that the disorder is in

> the driver's seat, not you. As one of our members says,

> " donating while in this frame of mind will just further cement

> your hoarding traits. Your are a worthwhile person just because

> you exist and you do not have to prove or earn this status.

> You cannot destroy it. "

>

> Unless you are willing to confront perfectionistic or hyperresponsible

> thinking such as " I must never waste " , " I have to recycle everything

> perfectly " , " I need to find good homes for all the things I'm

> discarding " , " If it's usable, I must donate it " and/or " I am responsible

> for the caretaking of [this object] " -- your behavior toward things,

> objects, stuff will continue to control you and rule your life.

>

> > Is this OCD? Is this addiction? Is it both? Does it not matter?

>

> It will probably be categorized as its own disorder under the umbrella

> of Obsessive-Compulsive and Related Disorders in the upcoming

> DSM-5. The proposed revision can be found here:

> http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevision/Pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=398

>

> I don't think it is helpful to view it as an addiction. Here's a

> good exploration of why:

> http://inside919.ning.com/profiles/blogs/is-hoarding-a-compulsion-or-an

>

> > I need a good ACT therapist who specializes in this sort of thing.

> > I am ready to let a lot of this go. I think I'm allowing myself to

> > stall because I'm looking for " perfect home " for my things.

>

> Yes, avoidance is one of the hallmarks of the disorder. I highly

> recommend working with someone who is familiar with hoarding

> disorder. A good place to start is the International OCD Foundation

> (IOCDF) website: http://www.ocfoundation.org/hoarding/

> Click on 'Help for Hoarding' and then 'Treatment Provider List' from

> the pull-down menu.

>

> I'm personally finding ACT to be very helpful for all of my OCD

> symptoms, hoarding included. People with hoarding difficulties are

> so often anxiously thinking of the past or future, so learning to be

> fully in the present moment can be hugely helpful.

>

> If you are interesting in joining us in the online support group,

> here's our homepage: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/H-C/

>

> Best to you,

>

> --a

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry for the confusion, Terry. The 8 week in-person

study group for ACT is for OCD symptoms in general.

We just finished week #6, so I'm still quite new to

ACT concepts, but I'm very excited about the therapy

and can see some significant changes already.

The hoarding support group is an online group, begun

by me in 1998. We use the CBT treatment protocols

developed by psychologists Randy Frost and Gail Steketee,

and have been incorporating ACT concepts within the last

7 or 8 years. Hearing about ACT in the group is what

actually got me to sign up for the current research

study group in Berkeley, California.

My focus in the study group is on some other pesky

OCD symptoms I have (intrusive harm thoughts), but

I'm happy to report that I've been able to apply what

I've been learning to all aspects of my OCD and life

in general.

Let me think a little about how ACT can apply

specifically to hoarding disorder -- I'll get back

to you on this. Since hoarding disorder affects

3-5% of the population plus loved ones and the

community at large, others here may be interested,

too.

Thanks for the warm welcome. It's great to be here.

--a

Terry wrote:

>

> Welcome a! So glad you're here. Very useful feedback. Wow, a group that

applies ACT? If willing, would you share how you're applying specific ACT

processes to hoarding? ACT experience is certainly coming in handy,e.g.,helping

me distinguish between shoulds and values..more later..out the door.

>

> kind regards,

> Terry

>

>

> > Hi Terry,

> >

> > I'm new to the group, having joined because I'm in an 8 week

> > study group using ACT for OCD. Your subject line caught my

> > attention because I'm active in a support group for folks with

> > hoarding disorder. [snip]

> > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/H-C/