Guest guest Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Maybe not apropos, Randy, but an interesting talk with the inimitable Pinker.Regards,Detlef>> This morning at 6:00 a.m., I find myself taking a last quiet tour of> the grounds of the rustic art colony my partner helps manage, and for> which I volunteer, here in mid-state NY. It is only a 2 minute walk> from the main building up to our little cabin in the woods; the dirt> road is lined by tall trees going back into hundreds of acres of> woods. Owls and bears and coyotes and wild turkeys and maybe a bobcat> or two if you know where and how to look.> > Parked up by our cabin, the mini-van is already packed full of our> things, ready for the drive in a few hours from here back to the city> for the winter. We have done this drive each year for 10 years; and> each year, we do it not knowing if we will be back next spring. Such> are the fraught politics and economics of an increasingly fragile> non-profit. > > And yet when the colony is in full swing each summer it is a wonderful> place full of art and life.> > And even when I look up this morning to the sky it is the most> beautiful gradation of night-blue in the depths to dawn-blue at the> margins; absolutely clear; only a few stars left & a half-moon still> hovering.> > I wonder, as I have before: will this be the last time I take this> particular walk, look up at this particular sky, surrounded by these> particular woods? Will I not hear an owl again?> > It occurs to me that this moment is emblematic of life itself. I have> been granted many beautiful mornings here, and whether or not this> particular morning is my last, someday there will indeed be one that> is the last. And I have been granted a life; and someday that life> will come to an end.> > All that has been given will one day be taken away.> > I feel the pain of imagined future loss, the beauty of the present.> And I wonder, have I been blessed for what has been given, or cheated> by what will be taken away?> > I would prefer to feel gratitude for this most beautiful of mornings,> for so many beautiful mornings; and gratitude for this life as well,> so sad and rare. But one cannot force or fake a feeling.> > I wonder if instead gratitude might be a choice - but if so, what> would that choice consist of? I had no answer this morning; I have no> answer now.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Hi Randy, Thanks for owning clarifying where you're at with this, along with some of your expectations for the list, 'cause I was sorta scratching my head wondering and I know some of us post things with expectations and so forth. So far, this is what I'm hearing:You are perfectly fine having the questions you posed unanswered. You are wanting to spend time with your own questions.You especially do not want to hear from folks providing quick answers.And you also do not want any responses that sound to you like "a way out". You're definitely curious about what other people may have experienced that seems similar in some way.My thought is that the request for sharing of experiences that "seem similar in some way" sounds wide open to interpretation, broader than the preceding requests.kind regards,terryTo: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 4:46 AMSubject: Re: Blessed or cheated? >> I hope you will share more about this process as it unfolds for you. Thanks for seeing this as a process, Helena. That is exactlywhat I'm looking for. In posting to the list, I may have inadvertently suggested I wanted help with my questions. Which is not exactly the case. Itis more that I find the questions interesting & want to spend sometime with them.I am definitely interested in hearing about other people's perspectives, and at the same time I am more than happy to have my questions go unanswered in my own life for a while. Quick answers in particular are not what I am looking for, nor a "way out" of my experience. On the other hand, as I say, I am definitely curious about whatother people may have experienced that seems similar in someway.-R. ------------------------------------For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsychology.orgIf you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_Public, you may unsubscribe by sending an email to ACT_for_the_Public-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/<*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional<*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join (Yahoo! ID required)<*> To change settings via email: ACT_for_the_Public-digest ACT_for_the_Public-fullfeatured <*> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Also, what is meant by " a way out " kind of response that you don't want? > > > > I hope you will share more about this process as it unfolds for you. > > Thanks for seeing this as a process, Helena. That is exactly > what I'm looking for. > > In posting to the list, I may have inadvertently suggested > I wanted help with my questions. Which is not exactly the case. It > is more that I find the questions interesting & want to spend some > time with them. > > I am definitely interested in hearing about other people's perspectives, > and at the same time I am more than happy to have my questions > go unanswered in my own life for a while. Quick answers in particular > are not what I am looking for, nor a " way out " of my experience. > > On the other hand, as I say, I am definitely curious about what > other people may have experienced that seems similar in some > way. > > -R. > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsychology.org > > If you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_Public, you may > unsubscribe by sending an email to > ACT_for_the_Public-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 To be honest Randy, I think your expectations here are a bit much for this post of yours on an ACT for the Public forum. This isn't a writing/editing site. The kind of requests you put forth here about just what responses you want: " I want this response, not that one, responses need to be similar, no responses that offer a way out " etc. are IMO not fitting for this venue. With ACT, we are learning that what we want to hear and what we may hear can co-exist. We are learning to welcome even that which feels unfamiliar. I'm not hearing this from you one bit. In fact, I'm hearing the contrary. ( " Won't have this, won't have that " ). This doesn't feel good from where I sit. It feels excluding, not including. kind regards, Terry > > > > > > I hope you will share more about this process as it unfolds for you. > > > > Thanks for seeing this as a process, Helena. That is exactly > > what I'm looking for. > > > > In posting to the list, I may have inadvertently suggested > > I wanted help with my questions. Which is not exactly the case. It > > is more that I find the questions interesting & want to spend some > > time with them. > > > > I am definitely interested in hearing about other people's perspectives, > > and at the same time I am more than happy to have my questions > > go unanswered in my own life for a while. Quick answers in particular > > are not what I am looking for, nor a " way out " of my experience. > > > > On the other hand, as I say, I am definitely curious about what > > other people may have experienced that seems similar in some > > way. > > > > -R. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsychology.org > > > > If you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_Public, you may > > unsubscribe by sending an email to > > ACT_for_the_Public-unsubscribe@! Groups Links > > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Randy, I think I get what you mean when you say you aren't looking for quick answers or a way out. Too often, we seek quick relief from uncertainty, a quick response to unsettling questions; we want to know NOW, when it might serve us better to sit with the questions and uncertainties, let them perculate within us, and allow the answers to come when they will rather than insisting on or expecting an answer right now. And there are times, also, when others' perspectives, although interesting and welcome, are not as helpful as simply allowing yourself to sit with your own unique experience just as it is without outside influences, with patience and open curiosity - just letting it be what it is without looking for confirmation or insight from others. Helena To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 4:46 AMSubject: Re: Blessed or cheated?>> I hope you will share more about this process as it unfolds for you. Thanks for seeing this as a process, Helena. That is exactlywhat I'm looking for. In posting to the list, I may have inadvertently suggested I wanted help with my questions. Which is not exactly the case. Itis more that I find the questions interesting & want to spend sometime with them.I am definitely interested in hearing about other people's perspectives, and at the same time I am more than happy to have my questions go unanswered in my own life for a while. Quick answers in particular are not what I am looking for, nor a "way out" of my experience. On the other hand, as I say, I am definitely curious about whatother people may have experienced that seems similar in someway.-R. ------------------------------------For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsychology.orgIf you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_Public, you may unsubscribe by sending an email to ACT_for_the_Public-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/<*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional<*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join (Yahoo! ID required)<*> To change settings via email: ACT_for_the_Public-digest ACT_for_the_Public-fullfeatured <*> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2011 Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 I have been contemplating this and I can feel the situation that you describe. I know that the way my moods are now, I would gravitate towards feeling loss over gratitude. I wish I could force or fake gratitude but you are right, this can't be done. At least not by me. I wonder what it would be like to be inclined towards gratitude instead of the fear of loss. I imagine it must be wonderful. And just as true and valid.The ability to choose one's viewpoint seems to me a very valuable trait. This sounds kind of Buddhist to me. Is it possible through training to have more of a feeling of gratitude. I've actually been keeping a daily gratitude list, as that's been recommended to me as a useful practice in cultivating a feeling of well-being. So far the jury's out on that but I continue to hope.I'm glad that you are able to feel a positive emotion for a beautiful morning.BruceThis morning at 6:00 a.m., I find myself taking a last quiet tour ofthe grounds of the rustic art colony my partner helps manage, and forwhich I volunteer, here in mid-state NY. It is only a 2 minute walkfrom the main building up to our little cabin in the woods; the dirtroad is lined by tall trees going back into hundreds of acres ofwoods. Owls and bears and coyotes and wild turkeys and maybe a bobcator two if you know where and how to look.Parked up by our cabin, the mini-van is already packed full of ourthings, ready for the drive in a few hours from here back to the cityfor the winter. We have done this drive each year for 10 years; andeach year, we do it not knowing if we will be back next spring. Suchare the fraught politics and economics of an increasingly fragilenon-profit. And yet when the colony is in full swing each summer it is a wonderfulplace full of art and life.And even when I look up this morning to the sky it is the mostbeautiful gradation of night-blue in the depths to dawn-blue at themargins; absolutely clear; only a few stars left & a half-moon stillhovering.I wonder, as I have before: will this be the last time I take thisparticular walk, look up at this particular sky, surrounded by theseparticular woods? Will I not hear an owl again?It occurs to me that this moment is emblematic of life itself. I havebeen granted many beautiful mornings here, and whether or not thisparticular morning is my last, someday there will indeed be one thatis the last. And I have been granted a life; and someday that lifewill come to an end.All that has been given will one day be taken away.I feel the pain of imagined future loss, the beauty of the present.And I wonder, have I been blessed for what has been given, or cheatedby what will be taken away?I would prefer to feel gratitude for this most beautiful of mornings,for so many beautiful mornings; and gratitude for this life as well,so sad and rare. But one cannot force or fake a feeling.I wonder if instead gratitude might be a choice - but if so, whatwould that choice consist of? I had no answer this morning; I have noanswer now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 " when I vacuum or sweep I always walk backwards so that I'm looking at what I've done rather than how much there is to do " That is awesome, Lou...D > >> Randy said <<What if nothing's next? Or what if what has been lost, is lost?>>>> I keep coming back to this because my mind is so rampant in thoughts/emotions that I find it hard to nail any one thing down. LOSS seems like the FACE involved in Russ's REALITY SLAP. >> One exercise I've been working with is called TURNING the MIND. It is all about cultivating attitude. Not really understanding that, I first examined `cultivating attitude' and concluded from my lessons that it is: developing, growing and nurturing alternative perspectives in thinking. >> Let's take death as an example of loss. Very recently my friend and I experienced a very sad death which left us both in tears grieving and breathless. For days this continued for my friend as he struggled to save himself from drowning in his bottle of brown spirits. I wondered if he would survive this loss. Then a funny thing happened, his language changed. He started to talk about some of the things they used to do together and he giggled telling his story. I was reminded of turning the mind, in that moment I had witnessed a change in attitude. How did he turn his mind? ...by finding the meaning in his connection with his buddy, that made him feel grateful. Perhaps there is an order to things? My friend gained the motivation/willingness to move on, he's on the wagon and back in classes. (A super dude :-) >> The pain behind loss is probably love. My imagination has me in visuals of the two sided coin spinning in front of me, illustrating how both love and loss continually come and go. With that knowledge and an honest understanding that both occur (often simultaneously), perhaps it is easier to have the pain while still feeling grateful. >> With humility and a desire for more points of view,>> Lou>> PS. Thats just one example of turning the mind. I practice it a lot with simple tasks as well. Ie. when I vacuum or sweep I always walk backwards so that I'm looking at what I've done rather than how much there is to do. Sounds silly now that I'm writing it but it seems to work, I have a better attitude to it. >> >> >>> >  >> > Not taken away Randy...finished is all (and that’s ok, right? What pleasure you have gained!)...to make the space for what’s next, with gratitude for it all.>> >  >> > To be honest, I wish I could sustain that mindset more frequently.>> >  >> > Lou>> >  >> > P.S. I do wish this list could stay away from the words GOD and PRAYING! I prayed for years during childhood...sorry guys, there is no god, (my opinion), certainly no mercy! >> >>> >>> > From: Randy Burgess <usable.thought@>>> > To: ACT_for_the_Public >> > Sent: Tuesday, 18 October 2011 8:07 AM >> > Subject: Blessed or cheated?>> >>> >>> >  >> > This morning at 6:00 a.m., I find myself taking a last quiet tour of>> > the grounds of the rustic art colony my partner helps manage, and for >> > which I volunteer, here in mid-state NY. It is only a 2 minute walk>> > from the main building up to our little cabin in the woods; the dirt>> > road is lined by tall trees going back into hundreds of acres of >> > woods. Owls and bears and coyotes and wild turkeys and maybe a bobcat>> > or two if you know where and how to look.>> >>> > Parked up by our cabin, the mini-van is already packed full of our >> > things, ready for the drive in a few hours from here back to the city>> > for the winter. We have done this drive each year for 10 years; and>> > each year, we do it not knowing if we will be back next spring. Such >> > are the fraught politics and economics of an increasingly fragile>> > non-profit.>> >>> > And yet when the colony is in full swing each summer it is a wonderful>> > place full of art and life. >> >>> > And even when I look up this morning to the sky it is the most>> > beautiful gradation of night-blue in the depths to dawn-blue at the>> > margins; absolutely clear; only a few stars left & a half-moon still >> > hovering.>> >>> > I wonder, as I have before: will this be the last time I take this>> > particular walk, look up at this particular sky, surrounded by these>> > particular woods? Will I not hear an owl again? >> >>> > It occurs to me that this moment is emblematic of life itself. I have>> > been granted many beautiful mornings here, and whether or not this>> > particular morning is my last, someday there will indeed be one that >> > is the last. And I have been granted a life; and someday that life>> > will come to an end.>> >>> > All that has been given will one day be taken away.>> > >> > I feel the pain of imagined future loss, the beauty of the present.>> > And I wonder, have I been blessed for what has been given, or cheated>> > by what will be taken away?>> > >> > I would prefer to feel gratitude for this most beautiful of mornings,>> > for so many beautiful mornings; and gratitude for this life as well,>> > so sad and rare. But one cannot force or fake a feeling. >> >>> > I wonder if instead gratitude might be a choice - but if so, what>> > would that choice consist of? I had no answer this morning; I have no>> > answer now.>> > >>>> -- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.com DarrellGKing@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 Yes, it is a bit like praying or remaining grounded, open, curious more and more of the time. That is the stance asked for here, what Steve asked of the "heckler" in his talk with the monk.To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 3:40 AMSubject: Re: Blessed or cheated? > > If I had any input, I would vote for "blessed" rather than "cheated." > Sometimes a little time must pass when we are in the midst of > conflicting, bittersweet emotions before we can clearly see the > triumphant blessing and genuinely feel the gratitude for having > had that experience.Having read some of your posts, I know you are talking from verypowerful personal experience. Which I respect greatly.I think I am after something a little different in this case. I do not want to *feel* gratitude, exactly; I want to find a way to express gratitude as an action or a stance. And to have this be stance bepresent even when there is also anger, uncertainty, etc.In writing my note I was remembering what wroteback in June in which, among other things, he said: "I said yes. I made a deal with the universe that whatever was on my plate on a given day, I would clean my plate and say thank you."It is something like that, that I am thinking of. However I don'tthink this is something that one just "says" the way we say"Hi" to someone on the street. There is a little more to gettingto that place, or making that place. For some reason I thinkit might be somewhat like praying, whether or not a godas such is involved.- R.------------------------------------For other ACT materials and list serves see www.contextualpsychology.orgIf you do not wish to belong to ACT_for_the_Public, you may unsubscribe by sending an email to ACT_for_the_Public-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/<*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional<*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join (Yahoo! ID required)<*> To change settings via email: ACT_for_the_Public-digest ACT_for_the_Public-fullfeatured <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ACT_for_the_Public-unsubscribe <*> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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