Guest guest Posted October 22, 2011 Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 If you are saying this in response to my post to Detlef, which many would perceive as harsh, I stand by it. Sometimes the most helpful and compassionate thing you can do is be very honest. I have a feeling he totally understood what I was saying and may have even appreciated it, if I know him like I think I do - and he damn well knows I care about him. I'm sure he will set me straight I deserve to be set straight. Most important, it is necesary to be compassionate and honest with yourself. Helena To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 12:49:19 PMSubject: Re: Picking a winner Some people have suffered terribly for a long time and it is understandable that they feel enormous dissapointment with therapy, drugs, or anything thay have tried. I think we should show compassion, understanding, and give gentle guidance if a post seems unhelpful to some of us. Entanglement to suffering: See next post. Kv >> In my almost 62 years I've learned very little.> > One thing I haven't learned is how to pick a "winner", ie, a genuine> helpmate from all the pretenders out there.> > By "pretenders" I mean those misguided individuals like those who> advised Steve Jobs to opt for acupuncture and special diets to treat his> rare form of pancreatic cancer. (Disclosure: my mother died a horrible> death from the more common form of this disease.) Although unprovable,> there is a chance Jobs might have survived had he availed himself of the> prevailing treatment regime. He chose not to. It might have cost him his> life.> > For me, and I guess others on this list, it comes down to whether ACT or> CBT or any of the similar modalities extant out there actually make a> difference to lives lived from day to day.> > Reading the posts here I gather that for some of you, at least,> practicing ACT has some hopefully positive effect. Those of us reading> these posts have no evidence except your words.> > For me, ACT seems like just another "whee-giz" new-fangled therapy that> is apparently "just right" for some, but woefully inadequate for many> others - others whose pain shines through in their posts.> > I'm on the fence regarding this. In the past decades I've "gotten> something" from reading Buddhist texts, but that "something" has been> diluted by my skepticism and downright cynicism. After all, how do we> know that Buddha achieved anything at all? Perhaps he just ingested some> particular mushrooms that had a verifiable effect on his neurobiology.> > I'm wondering if practitioners of the new "whee-giz" therapies,> including ACT, are experiencing genuine change, or whether they are> experiencing a transient "high", more attributable to other factors.> > I know there is some apparently sound methodological evidence for CBT> and ACT, but I'm not too sure of the experimental designs, nor of the> evaluation of the so-called evidence. I don't consider self-reporting on> a scale prepared by someone else as evidence of anything.> > What I'm driving at is this: there are many people out there who claim> to have "the answer", or who "suggest" that their particular approach> will be helpful, if only you'd try it. But actual evidence is hard to> come by, unless you accept what is published wholesale.> > ACT and CBT have been around for decades, yet there doesn't seem to be> any groundswell of support for either approach; they are two approaches> among a great many.> > So how do you "pick a winner"? How do you know that one or another> approach to what ails you will work for you?> > Up to now, all I've learned is that certain medications will ease my> pain. The psychiatrist I see once a week -- who first told me about ACT> -- seems to not practice ACT in any way that I can discern. In fact, all> he has done is recommend The Happiness Trap to me.> > I bought that book, plus a host more, but really, folks, there is no> substitute for actual human interaction, no matter what or any of> the others may say. And if your therapist isn't "into" genuine human> interaction, perhaps it's time to look for someone else.> > So "picking a winner" is difficult, given our particular handicaps --> difficult, but not impossible. The ultimate winner may not even be a> therapist.> > There are people who claim to know more and better than you. I guess> wisdom comes in knowing who is bullshitting and who isn't.> > > Regards,> > Detlef> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2011 Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 Oops, as soon as I sent this, I got a reply from Detlef to my earlier post. Thanks, Delef - I know you know I care about you a lot! Thanks for hearing me. Helena To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 12:58:24 PMSubject: Re: Re: Picking a winner If you are saying this in response to my post to Detlef, which many would perceive as harsh, I stand by it. Sometimes the most helpful and compassionate thing you can do is be very honest. I have a feeling he totally understood what I was saying and may have even appreciated it, if I know him like I think I do - and he damn well knows I care about him. I'm sure he will set me straight I deserve to be set straight. Most important, it is necesary to be compassionate and honest with yourself. Helena To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 12:49:19 PMSubject: Re: Picking a winner Some people have suffered terribly for a long time and it is understandable that they feel enormous dissapointment with therapy, drugs, or anything thay have tried. I think we should show compassion, understanding, and give gentle guidance if a post seems unhelpful to some of us. Entanglement to suffering: See next post. Kv >> In my almost 62 years I've learned very little.> > One thing I haven't learned is how to pick a "winner", ie, a genuine> helpmate from all the pretenders out there.> > By "pretenders" I mean those misguided individuals like those who> advised Steve Jobs to opt for acupuncture and special diets to treat his> rare form of pancreatic cancer. (Disclosure: my mother died a horrible> death from the more common form of this disease.) Although unprovable,> there is a chance Jobs might have survived had he availed himself of the> prevailing treatment regime. He chose not to. It might have cost him his> life.> > For me, and I guess others on this list, it comes down to whether ACT or> CBT or any of the similar modalities extant out there actually make a> difference to lives lived from day to day.> > Reading the posts here I gather that for some of you, at least,> practicing ACT has some hopefully positive effect. Those of us reading> these posts have no evidence except your words.> > For me, ACT seems like just another "whee-giz" new-fangled therapy that> is apparently "just right" for some, but woefully inadequate for many> others - others whose pain shines through in their posts.> > I'm on the fence regarding this. In the past decades I've "gotten> something" from reading Buddhist texts, but that "something" has been> diluted by my skepticism and downright cynicism. After all, how do we> know that Buddha achieved anything at all? Perhaps he just ingested some> particular mushrooms that had a verifiable effect on his neurobiology.> > I'm wondering if practitioners of the new "whee-giz" therapies,> including ACT, are experiencing genuine change, or whether they are> experiencing a transient "high", more attributable to other factors.> > I know there is some apparently sound methodological evidence for CBT> and ACT, but I'm not too sure of the experimental designs, nor of the> evaluation of the so-called evidence. I don't consider self-reporting on> a scale prepared by someone else as evidence of anything.> > What I'm driving at is this: there are many people out there who claim> to have "the answer", or who "suggest" that their particular approach> will be helpful, if only you'd try it. But actual evidence is hard to> come by, unless you accept what is published wholesale.> > ACT and CBT have been around for decades, yet there doesn't seem to be> any groundswell of support for either approach; they are two approaches> among a great many.> > So how do you "pick a winner"? How do you know that one or another> approach to what ails you will work for you?> > Up to now, all I've learned is that certain medications will ease my> pain. The psychiatrist I see once a week -- who first told me about ACT> -- seems to not practice ACT in any way that I can discern. In fact, all> he has done is recommend The Happiness Trap to me.> > I bought that book, plus a host more, but really, folks, there is no> substitute for actual human interaction, no matter what or any of> the others may say. And if your therapist isn't "into" genuine human> interaction, perhaps it's time to look for someone else.> > So "picking a winner" is difficult, given our particular handicaps --> difficult, but not impossible. The ultimate winner may not even be a> therapist.> > There are people who claim to know more and better than you. I guess> wisdom comes in knowing who is bullshitting and who isn't.> > > Regards,> > Detlef> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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