Re: Need to buy ...@ Bruce :-)

[Guest guest]

Hi Bruce:-)If i don't make much sense about what i say, in my defence, i am in my front yard, with 7 loud noisy kids running around and playing:-)..I just saw dr. hayes email and got soooo excited to open those links, and then i saw ur post..so just wanted to say a couple things (hopefully it won't be an essay:-)<< that promises relief....Most recently, it's been self-compassion>>self compassion is an excellent tool for relief. I have loved it, coz it dosen't just allow me to be compassionate towards my own painful expereinces, that compassion eventiually comes out towards others too when they r hurtful to me. it's a good feeling.It does promise relief bruce, but relief from the added pain that comes from self -critism, self -blame, demoralizing- talk, neg self -judgement & evaluation. This added pain is suffering, so yes, it aboslutely promises relief from suffering, as period of suffering is in our control. If you are expecting permanent relief from what is not in ur control, your unpleasant emotions (anxiety/depression), then im guessing that perhaps you are still thinking that these are not normal emotions that we all expereince as part of life and living. <<<I've read and heard enough life-changing wisdom for 100 lifetimes...and I still don't consider myself cured.>>>i felt cure came to me many times, in bits and pieces. To me the 1st time i felt cured was when - i was cured from the misconception that anxiety/depression was a bad thing, & it needed to be completely rid inorder to 'feel cured'.2nd time i felt cured was- cured from the misconception that i would be able to have control over my intrusive and extremely painful sensations/thoughts/emotions/urges. 3rd time i felt cured was- when i was cured from the misconception that my reaction to the above was not in my control. 4th time- my misconception that i cannot take actions despite taking all that baggage of pain along..and my list can go on and on..but basically what i am trying to say is cure to me was this sense. It didn't come as 'permament relief' from something we really can't rid. <<<I have the suspicion that there's not much left for me to learn,>>>i do belive that too bruce. you have read so many books. as far as knowledge there is probably not anymore. As far as applying what you learn , you have been doing acceptance and defusion and self compassion too,BUT perhaps with expectations?, hence results might be slighly diff from say how i am doing it, yea? also from your earlier emails, and i am NO expert,, i think you need to re visit the observer self, contact with the present moment, and most importanly self as context. Coz u did have questions about it as u seemed confused. but i could be absolutely wrong here. <<<That leaves me feeling scared and lonely since it's my thoughts and

mental conditioning that have gotten into this mess to begin with.>>> from this i feel like you are having difficulty connecting with your observing self. painful expereinces of life can often be so overwhelming & overpowering that u can often feel like u are

defined by them. you start experiencing them as if that is the ONLY

reality of the moment, that's WHO YOU ARE, that's ALL that is to

experience at that very moment, and in every other moment that follows. You need to be able to connect with that observers perspective bruce, i am not seeing it in your emails. coming in contact with that observing self where u are to able to step back and recognise that i am

a

whole person, there is infact more to me than just this immense pain

and

suffering, and right now i am 'having the experience' of not

being

able to deal with all this immense pain and suffering. This is the key to moving forward with AND despite all obsticles, and yet feel that sense of liberationYou know bruce i have this one muslim friend who has chronic pain, plus depression/gad/ ocd/now suicidal, & marraige falling apart from all this. I have in the past shared a lotta act tools with her, acceptance,expansion,values etc etc...she doesn't get it at all..she doesn;t c a reason to live. Everything is falling apart in front of her eyes. before i spoke to her last time i said to myself, wait a minute, she cannot stand being herself, she cannot stand living like this, what can i do to help her? then i realized she needs to c and recognise that there is more to her than her in this moment, this phsyical form, this painful expereinces, that's when it hit me, she needs to know about self as context, about that observers perspective first, and then i know things will start fallling in place when i re introduce the other act concepts to her. i said a few things to her last i spoke, it registered in her. Now i am studing self as context myself to be able to explain it in detail. It is an amaaaaaazing tool bruce. it is that 1 misssing piece of the puzzle, but it is the most imp. piece or the biggest piece of the act puzzle, i feel. Coz somtimes distress can be sooo intense that u can't imagine doing anything in this body. then u need to observe, notice, and expereince life from outside this form. Why don't you try that exercise that dr. hayes posted about SAC, and re read dr. hayes post too about SAC. then check out these links he just posted. maybe u and i could share notes on it yea?:-).So perhaps sometimes it helps to learn act starting with self as context, observing self, and then moving into thinking self, acceptacne, values etc etc.<<But I would like to have some parts of some days feel positive. >>>>if you r trying too hard to feel postive it might not come. i think it is the same like trying hard to rid negative. expectations make acceptance tougher. if accepance gets tougher, then being present, open, and taking action all are affected. let the negative come and go on own accord, and u will perhaps c glimpses of positives too. but remeber let them come and go in their own accord toowasalaam:-)To: ACT_for_the_Public From: onebnz@...Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 18:02:15 -0700Subject: Re: Re: Need to buy an ACT book..any recommendations?

[Guest guest]

, you have a talent of understanding what is beneath the words people speak and you somehow zone in on the real issue. Thanks so much for responding so thoroughly to Bruce's post because it has given me a lot to think about as well. I now realize I don't understand 'self as context' very well at all and I need to dig into that. I am and have always been exceptionally self-aware and insightful about myself, thus I thought had mastered the art of the observing self. And I notice most everything around me that others seem to ignore - I smile at the sheer tiny-ness of two ants crawling across my desk, bask in the cheerful chirping of a little wren perching on the deck rail, marvel at the glistening colors of a beetle on a leaf - and I thought that was about all there was to living in the present moment. Being aware .... of self and the world around you. That is part of it, but I now see, after reading your post, that there is much to understand about 'self as context' and'being present'. I admit I haven't read much about it - I thought I already 'got it'. How arrogant of me!

Thank you, .

Helena

From: " Khan" <ksarahsarah_designshotmail>To: "act for the public" <act_for_the_public >Sent: Sunday, October 9, 2011 10:48:57 PMSubject: Re: Need to buy ...@ Bruce :-)

Hi Bruce:-)If i don't make much sense about what i say, in my defence, i am in my front yard, with 7 loud noisy kids running around and playing:-)..I just saw dr. hayes email and got soooo excited to open those links, and then i saw ur post..so just wanted to say a couple things (hopefully it won't be an essay:-)<< that promises relief....Most recently, it's been self-compassion>>self compassion is an excellent tool for relief. I have loved it, coz it dosen't just allow me to be compassionate towards my own painful expereinces, that compassion eventiually comes out towards others too when they r hurtful to me. it's a good feeling.It does promise relief bruce, but relief from the added pain that comes from self -critism, self -blame, demoralizing- talk, neg self -judgement & evaluation. This added pain is suffering, so yes, it aboslutely promises relief from suffering, as period of suffering is in our control. If you are expecting permanent relief from what is not in ur control, your unpleasant emotions (anxiety/depression), then im guessing that perhaps you are still thinking that these are not normal emotions that we all expereince as part of life and living. <<<I've read and heard enough life-changing wisdom for 100 lifetimes...and I still don't consider myself cured.>>>i felt cure came to me many times, in bits and pieces. To me the 1st time i felt cured was when - i was cured from the misconception that anxiety/depression was a bad thing, & it needed to be completely rid inorder to 'feel cured'.2nd time i felt cured was- cured from the misconception that i would be able to have control over my intrusive and extremely painful sensations/thoughts/emotions/urges. 3rd time i felt cured was- when i was cured from the misconception that my reaction to the above was not in my control. 4th time- my misconception that i cannot take actions despite taking all that baggage of pain along..and my list can go on and on..but basically what i am trying to say is cure to me was this sense. It didn't come as 'permament relief' from something we really can't rid.

<<<I have the suspicion that there's not much left for me to learn,>>>i do belive that too bruce. you have read so many books. as far as knowledge there is probably not anymore. As far as applying what you learn , you have been doing acceptance and defusion and self compassion too,BUT perhaps with expectations?, hence results might be slighly diff from say how i am doing it, yea? also from your earlier emails, and i am NO expert,, i think you need to re visit the observer self, contact with the present moment, and most importanly self as context. Coz u did have questions about it as u seemed confused. but i could be absolutely wrong here. <<<That leaves me feeling scared and lonely since it's my thoughts and mental conditioning that have gotten into this mess to begin with.>>> from this i feel like you are having difficulty connecting with your observing self. painful expereinces of life can often be so overwhelming & overpowering that u can often feel like u are defined by them. you start experiencing them as if that is the ONLY reality of the moment, that's WHO YOU ARE, that's ALL that is to experience at that very moment, and in every other moment that follows. You need to be able to connect with that observers perspective bruce, i am not seeing it in your emails. coming in contact with that observing self where u are to able to step back and recognise that i am a whole person, there is infact more to me than just this immense pain and suffering, and right now i am 'having the experience' of not being able to deal with all this immense pain and suffering. This is the key to moving forward with AND despite all obsticles, and yet feel that sense of liberationYou know bruce i have this one muslim friend who has chronic pain, plus depression/gad/ ocd/now suicidal, & marraige falling apart from all this. I have in the past shared a lotta act tools with her, acceptance,expansion,values etc etc...she doesn't get it at all..she doesn;t c a reason to live. Everything is falling apart in front of her eyes. before i spoke to her last time i said to myself, wait a minute, she cannot stand being herself, she cannot stand living like this, what can i do to help her? then i realized she needs to c and recognise that there is more to her than her in this moment, this phsyical form, this painful expereinces, that's when it hit me, she needs to know about self as context, about that observers perspective first, and then i know things will start fallling in place when i re introduce the other act concepts to her. i said a few things to her last i spoke, it registered in her. Now i am studing self as context myself to be able to explain it in detail. It is an amaaaaaazing tool bruce. it is that 1 misssing piece of the puzzle, but it is the most imp. piece or the biggest piece of the act puzzle, i feel. Coz somtimes distress can be sooo intense that u can't imagine doing anything in this body. then u need to observe, notice, and expereince life from outside this form. Why don't you try that exercise that dr. hayes posted about SAC, and re read dr. hayes post too about SAC. then check out these links he just posted. maybe u and i could share notes on it yea?:-).So perhaps sometimes it helps to learn act starting with self as context, observing self, and then moving into thinking self, acceptacne, values etc etc.<<But I would like to have some parts of some days feel positive. >>>>if you r trying too hard to feel postive it might not come. i think it is the same like trying hard to rid negative. expectations make acceptance tougher. if accepance gets tougher, then being present, open, and taking action all are affected. let the negative come and go on own accord, and u will perhaps c glimpses of positives too. but remeber let them come and go in their own accord toowasalaam:-)

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: onebnzcomcast (DOT) netDate: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 18:02:15 -0700Subject: Re: Re: Need to buy an ACT book..any recommendations?