Re: Meditation Question

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Hi Jeff, Long time TM-meditator myself (approaching 30 years) - but have dropped the mantra since a few years. (I also did the TM-Sidhi technique for 20 years or so. And I did 3 months of teacher training course - don't want to be reminded of the teacher training - ugly indoctrination! )My take on TM and how Maharishi explained the function of the mantras was that they serve as a tool or vehicle to help the mind settle down. Once the mind has settled down a bit, the "release of stress" starts. Release of stress is noticed when thoughts, feelings, bodily sensations, memories are allowed their own course. I have never heard Maharishi or Deepak Chopra for that matter talking about the mantras as having some kind of intrinsic value. They are just a tool that allows the process of stress-release to function smoothly.With that said, I think you should find the meditation technique that works best for you personally. This is also true regarding the length of your meditation. Do what works for you. Doing what works - long term - is also probably the best way to stay healthy. If you stay healthy, you're possibly also going to add years to your life.Hope this helps,Henrik I started doing TM about seven years ago. While meditating, Iexperienced what the TMer's call "witnessing," which ACT calls theobserving self. I did a little research and that's how I found ACT.After reading GOYMAIYL, I started doing the leaves on a streammeditation. I didn't want to stop the TM so I looked around for advice.It seemed like everyone picked a side, mindfulness or mantra meditation.The only person who seemed unbiased was Deepak Chopra so I sent him anemail. He wrote back the next day, surprisingly, and advised me to dothe tm in the morning, wait five minutes, then do the mindfulness. ThenTM again in the evening. So that's what I've been doing for the last 3or 4 years.I'd like to pare down this meditation schedule a bit but I hesitatedropping the TM because some studies show evidence of mantra meditationadding a few years to your life. But the last study I read found thatmost meditation studies were poorl y done and often biased so I don'tknow.I read somewhere that there are two ways to extend your life; calorierestriction and dropping your core temperature. Supposedly TM reducesyour core temperature. Whenever I take my temperature these days it'sabout 97.4 so maybe there's something to that. I don't know.Anyone have any advice?> > > >

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I wish I did, Jeff. It would be a shame if you missed today while investing in tomorrow!Have a great day!D

>  >> I started doing TM about seven years ago. While meditating, I experienced what the TMer's call " witnessing, " which ACT calls the observing self. I did a little research and that's how I found ACT. After reading GOYMAIYL, I started doing the leaves on a stream meditation. I didn't want to stop the TM so I looked around for advice. It seemed like everyone picked a side, mindfulness or mantra meditation. The only person who seemed unbiased was Deepak Chopra so I sent him an email. He wrote back the next day, surprisingly, and advised me to do the tm in the morning, wait five minutes, then do the mindfulness. Then TM again in the evening. So that's what I've been doing for the last 3 or 4 years. 

> I'd like to pare down this meditation schedule a bit but I hesitate dropping the TM because some studies show evidence of mantra meditation adding a few years to your life. But the last study I read found that most meditation studies were poorly done and often biased so I don't know. 

> I read somewhere that there are two ways to extend your life; calorie restriction and dropping your core temperature. Supposedly TM reduces your core temperature. Whenever I take my temperature these days it's about 97.4 so maybe there's something to that. I don't know. 

> Anyone have any advice? >>>>> -- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@...

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thanks for replying. So I take it that dropping the mantra means you're doing more of a mindfulness meditation now. Have you noticed a difference in how you feel? I've recently noticed how similar mantra and mindfulness meditations are. Both watch thoughts passing by but the mantra gives you something to "hang on" to while you watch. Even though they're similar, I do notice a difference in their effects. In a nutshell, TM seems to relax me physically while mindfulness helps to clear my mind. I'm just wondering if I can save time by dropping the TM or if I would lose the physical stress release, like you mentioned, if I did. Hi Jeff, Long time TM-meditator myself (approaching 30 years) - but have dropped the mantra since a few years. (I also did the TM-Sidhi technique for 20 years or so. And I did 3 months of teacher training course - don't want to be reminded of the teacher training - ugly indoctrination! )My take on TM and how Maharishi explained the function of the mantras was that they serve as a tool or vehicle to help the mind settle down. Once the mind has settled down a bit, the "release of stress" starts. Release of stress is noticed when thoughts, feelings, bodily sensations, memories are allowed their own course. I have never heard Maharishi or Deepak Chopra for that matter talking about the mantras as having some kind of intrinsic value. They are just a tool that allows the process of stress-release to function smoothly.With that said, I think you should find the meditation technique that works best for you personally. This is also true regarding the length of your meditation. Do what works for you. Doing what works - long term - is also probably the best way to stay healthy. If you stay healthy, you're possibly also going to add years to your life.Hope this helps,Henrik I started doing TM about seven years ago. While meditating, Iexperienced what the TMer's call "witnessing," which ACT calls theobserving self. I did a little research and that's how I found ACT.After reading GOYMAIYL, I started doing the leaves on a streammeditation. I didn't want to stop the TM so I looked around for advice.It seemed like everyone picked a side, mindfulness or mantra meditation.The only person who seemed unbiased was Deepak Chopra so I sent him anemail. He wrote back the next day, surprisingly, and advised me to dothe tm in the morning, wait five minutes, then do the mindfulness. ThenTM again in the evening. So that's what I've been doing for the last 3or 4 years.I'd like to pare down this meditation schedule a bit but I hesitatedropping the TM because some studies show evidence of mantra meditationadding a few years to your life. But the last study I read found thatmost meditation studies were poorl y done and often biased so I don'tknow.I read somewhere that there are two ways to extend your life; calorierestriction and dropping your core temperature. Supposedly TM reducesyour core temperature. Whenever I take my temperature these days it'sabout 97.4 so maybe there's something to that. I don't know.Anyone have any advice?> > > >

[Guest guest]

Jeff, personally, I think mindfulness and TM could potentially both work as well. In a nutshell - if you're happy with how things are going now, keep your practice the way it is. If you're not, try and change some part of it. It's OK to try out different things, but I would perhaps suggest you change one small part and then evaluate how/if it affects your life. If you change everything at once, you'll have more difficulties assessing what worked and what didn't.best of luck!Henrik thanks for replying. So I take it that dropping the mantra means you'redoing more of a mindfulness meditation now. Have you noticed adifference in how you feel?I've recently noticed how similar mantra and mindfulness meditationsare. Both watch thoughts passing by but the mantra gives you somethingto "hang on" to while you watch. Even though they're similar, I donotice a difference in their effects. In a nutshell, TM seems to relaxme physically while mindfulness helps to clear my mind. I'm justwondering if I can save time by dropping the TM or if I would lose thephysical stress release, like you mentioned, if I did.> > Hi Jeff,> > Long time TM-meditator myself (approaching 30 years) - but have> dropped the mantra since a few years. (I also did the TM-Sidhi> technique for 20 years or so. And I did 3 months of teacher training> course - don't want to be reminded of the teacher training - ugly> indoctrination! )> > My take on TM and how Maharishi explained the function of the mantras> was that they serve as a tool or vehicle to help the mind settle down.> Once the mind has settled down a bit, the "release of stress" starts.> Release of stress is noticed when thoughts, feelings, bodily> sensations, memories are allowed their own course.> > I have never heard Maharishi or Deepak Chopra for that matter talking> about the mantras as having some kind of intrinsic value. They are> just a tool that allows the process of stress-release to function> smoothly.> > With that said, I think you should find the meditation technique that> works best for you personally. This is also true regarding the length> of your meditation. Do what works for you. Doing what works - long> term - is also proba bly the best way to stay healthy. If you stay> healthy, you're possibly also going to add years to your life.> > > > > Hope this helps,> > Henrik> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I started doing TM about seven years ago. While meditating, I> > experienced what the TMer's call "witnessing," which ACT calls the> > observing self. I did a little research and that's how I found ACT.> > After reading GOYMAIYL, I started doing the leaves on a stream> > meditation. I didn't want to stop the TM so I looked around for> > advice.> > It seemed like everyone picked a side, mindfulness or mantra> > meditation.> > The only person who seemed unbiased was Deepak Chopra so I sent him> > an> > email. He wrote back the next day, surprisingly, and advised me to> > do> > the tm in the morning, wait five minutes, then do the mindfulness.> > The n> > TM again in the evening. So that's what I've been doing for the last> > 3> > or 4 years.> > > > > > > > > > I'd like to pare down this meditation schedule a bit but I hesitate> > dropping the TM because some studies show evidence of mantra> > meditation> > adding a few years to your life. But the last study I read found> > that> > most meditation studies were poorl y done and often biased so I> > don't> > know.> > > > > > > > > > I read somewhere that there are two ways to extend your life;> > calorie> > restriction and dropping your core temperature. Supposedly TM> > reduces> > your core temperature. Whenever I take my temperature these days> > it's> > about 97.4 so maybe there's something to that. I don't know.> > > > > > > > > > Anyone have any advice?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

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I've been trying a 15 minute TM and it's funny cause the meditations are more intense. I guess the old saying "we're an experiment of one" applies here. Thanks. Jeff Jeff, personally, I think mindfulness and TM could potentially both work as well. In a nutshell - if you're happy with how things are going now, keep your practice the way it is. If you're not, try and change some part of it. It's OK to try out different things, but I would perhaps suggest you change one small part and then evaluate how/if it affects your life. If you change everything at once, you'll have more difficulties assessing what worked and what didn't.best of luck!Henrik thanks for replying. So I take it that dropping the mantra means you'redoing more of a mindfulness meditation now. Have you noticed adifference in how you feel?I've recently noticed how similar mantra and mindfulness meditationsare. Both watch thoughts passing by but the mantra gives you somethingto "hang on" to while you watch. Even though they're similar, I donotice a difference in their effects. In a nutshell, TM seems to relaxme physically while mindfulness helps to clear my mind. I'm justwondering if I can save time by dropping the TM or if I would lose thephysical stress release, like you mentioned, if I did.> > Hi Jeff,> > Long time TM-meditator myself (approaching 30 years) - but have> dropped the mantra since a few years. (I also did the TM-Sidhi> technique for 20 years or so. And I did 3 months of teacher training> course - don't want to be reminded of the teacher training - ugly> indoctrination! )> > My take on TM and how Maharishi explained the function of the mantras> was that they serve as a tool or vehicle to help the mind settle down.> Once the mind has settled down a bit, the "release of stress" starts.> Release of stress is noticed when thoughts, feelings, bodily> sensations, memories are allowed their own course.> > I have never heard Maharishi or Deepak Chopra for that matter talking> about the mantras as having some kind of intrinsic value. They are> just a tool that allows the process of stress-release to function> smoothly.> > With that said, I think you should find the meditation technique that> works best for you personally. This is also true regarding the length> of your meditation. Do what works for you. Doing what works - long> term - is also proba bly the best way to stay healthy. If you stay> healthy, you're possibly also going to add years to your life.> > > > > Hope this helps,> > Henrik> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I started doing TM about seven years ago. While meditating, I> > experienced what the TMer's call "witnessing," which ACT calls the> > observing self. I did a little research and that's how I found ACT.> > After reading GOYMAIYL, I started doing the leaves on a stream> > meditation. I didn't want to stop the TM so I looked around for> > advice.> > It seemed like everyone picked a side, mindfulness or mantra> > meditation.> > The only person who seemed unbiased was Deepak Chopra so I sent him> > an> > email. He wrote back the next day, surprisingly, and advised me to> > do> > the tm in the morning, wait five minutes, then do the mindfulness.> > The n> > TM again in the evening. So that's what I've been doing for the last> > 3> > or 4 years.> > > > > > > > > > I'd like to pare down this meditation schedule a bit but I hesitate> > dropping the TM because some studies show evidence of mantra> > meditation> > adding a few years to your life. But the last study I read found> > that> > most meditation studies were poorl y done and often biased so I> > don't> > know.> > > > > > > > > > I read somewhere that there are two ways to extend your life;> > calorie> > restriction and dropping your core temperature. Supposedly TM> > reduces> > your core temperature. Whenever I take my temperature these days> > it's> > about 97.4 so maybe there's something to that. I don't know.> > > > > > > > > > Anyone have any advice?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jeff Beres-----------------Check out the Horror Screenwriter's Page at: http://home.comcast.net/~jberes5/horror.htm

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I enjoy this exchange, Jeff! I like your pragmatic take on meditation.Just wanted to ask you...It's sometimes difficult with e-mails - I think I'm with you, but just wanted to ask: When I read your last post, I wanted to write a word of caution (maybe not called for...)As I see it:The effects of meditation are primarily noticed in you everyday life, not in how the meditation is experienced. I have had tough and often boring meditations as long as I can remember - a lot of thoughts, emotions, numbness, memories - but have been able to live my life more in accordance with my values, thanks to it. Meditation, as I see it, shouldn't be about wanting to reach a certain emotional, mental or spiritual state while practicing. It's about allowing, accepting, giving room for... what's naturally inside. About giving the body space to talk to you in the form of emotions, tensions etc. About being able to witness the mind's racing thoughts, or numbness, or elation... whatever is there. If there is such a thing as spiritual fulfillment, and I think there is, it is slowly, slowly constructed outside of meditation in the everyday life by actions of love, forgiveness and empathy towards ourselves and others.Meditation helps us do what's necessary to grow, but it's just a tool along the way. If I would start to see meditation as a retreat or hiding place or bliss machine, I would abuse of it's function. I would see everything that comes up in meditation that's not calming or giving me rest, or making me blissful as an enemy, or a sign that I'm not doing it correctly. On the contrary, whatever comes up when I close my eyes to meditate is supposed to be there and is there for a reason. I don't need to know the reason, though. :-)cheers,Henrik I've been trying a 15 minute TM and it's funny cause the meditations aremore intense. I guess the old saying "we're an experiment of one"applies here.Thanks.Jeff> > Jeff, personally, I think mindfulness and TM could potentially both> work as well. In a nutshell - if you're happy with how things are> going now, keep your practice the way it is. If you're not, try and> change some part of it.> > It's OK to try out different things, but I would perhaps suggest you> change one small part and then evaluate how/if it affects your life.> If you change everything at once, you'll have more difficulties> assessing what worked and what didn't.> > best of luck!> > Henrik> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks for replying. So I take it that dropping the mantra means> > you're> > doing more of a mindfulness meditation now. Have you noticed a> > difference in how you feel?> > > > > > > > > > I've recently noticed how similar mantra and mindfulness meditations> > are. Both watch thoughts passing by but the mantra gives you> > something> > to "hang on" to while you watch. Even though they're similar, I do> > notice a difference in their effects. In a nutshell, TM seems to> > relax> > me physically while mindfulness helps to clear my mind. I'm just> > wondering if I can save time by dropping the TM or if I would lose> > the> > physical stress release, like you mentioned, if I did.> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > Hi Jeff,> > >> > > Long time TM-meditator myself (approachi ng 30 years) - but have> > > dropped the mantra since a few years. (I also did the TM-Sidhi> > > technique for 20 years or so. And I did 3 months of teacher> > > training> > > course - don't want to be reminded of the teacher training - ugly> > > indoctrination! )> > >> > > My take on TM and how Maharishi explained the function of the> > > mantras> > > was that they serve as a tool or vehicle to help the mind settle> > > down.> > > Once the mind has settled down a bit, the "release of stress"> > > starts.> > > Release of stress is noticed when thoughts, feelings, bodily> > > sensations, memories are allowed their own course.> > >> > > I have never heard Maharishi or Deepak Chopra for that matter> > > talking> > > about the mantras as having some kind of intrinsic value. They are> > > just a tool that allows the process of stress-release to function> > > smoothly.> > >> > > With that said, I think you should find the meditation technique> > > that> > & gt; works best for you personally. This is also true regarding the> > length> > > of your meditation. Do what works for you. Doing what works - long> > > term - is also proba bly the best way to stay healthy. If you stay> > > healthy, you're possibly also going to add years to your life.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Hope this helps,> > >> > > Henrik> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > On 28 sep 2011 15:53 "Jeff Beres" > > > wrote:> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I started doing TM about seven years ago. While meditating, I> > > > experienced what the TMer's call "witnessing," which ACT calls> > > > the> > > > observing self. I did a little research and that's how I found> > > > ACT.> > > > After reading GOYMAIYL, I started doing the leaves on a stream>> > > > > meditation. I didn't want to stop the TM so I looked around> > > > > for> > > > advice.> > > > It seemed like everyone picked a side, mindfulness or mantra> > > > meditation.> > > > The only person who seemed unbiased was Deepak Chopra so I sent> > > > him> > > > an> > > > email. He wrote back the next day, surprisingly, and advised me> > > > to> > > > do> > > > the tm in the morning, wait five minutes, then do the> > > > mindfulness.> > > > The n> > > > TM again in the evening. So that's what I've been doing for the> > > > last> > > > 3> > > > or 4 years.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I'd like to pare down this meditation schedule a bit but I> > > > hesitate> > > > dropping the TM because some studies show evidence of mantra> > > > meditation> > > > adding a few years to your life. But the last study I read found> > > > that> > > > most meditation studies were poorl y done and often biased so I> > > > don't> > > > know.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I read somewhere that there are two ways to extend your life;> > > > calorie> > > > restriction and dropping your core temperature. Supposedly TM> > > > reduces> > > > your core temperature. Whenever I take my temperature these days> > > > it's> > > > about 97.4 so maybe there's something to that. I don't know.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Anyone have any advice?> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Jeff Beres-----------------Check out the Horror Screenwriter's Page at:http://home.comcast.net/~jberes5/horror.htm

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Actually, the morning meditations these days are more like springboards for the mindfulness exercises I do during the day. I think I mentioned here before that I like doing the awareness exercises at the end of chapter 23 in The Happiness Trap throughout the day. These exercises seem to provide the emotional security to open myself to myself and others. In fact, these exercises are so effective, I was going to drop the morning meditations altogether, which is why I started this thread. But I've noticed that the meditations make the exercises more effective. I think it's all toward the same goal of being more aware of each moment during the day. My concern with the TM was that sometimes it can be such a shallow experience that I wonder if I'm just spinning my wheels and would be better off sticking to the mindfulness exercises. I've read a lot of books by Osho and he's very opposed to TM. He thinks it's closer to hypnosis than meditation. But sometimes it's a profound experience and it "centers me," which I think is what meditation is all about. Thanks, Henrik. I enjoy this exchange, Jeff! I like your pragmatic take on meditation.Just wanted to ask you...It's sometimes difficult with e-mails - I think I'm with you, but just wanted to ask: When I read your last post, I wanted to write a word of caution (maybe not called for...)As I see it:The effects of meditation are primarily noticed in you everyday life, not in how the meditation is experienced. I have had tough and often boring meditations as long as I can remember - a lot of thoughts, emotions, numbness, memories - but have been able to live my life more in accordance with my values, thanks to it. Meditation, as I see it, shouldn't be about wanting to reach a certain emotional, mental or spiritual state while practicing. It's about allowing, accepting, giving room for... what's naturally inside. About giving the body space to talk to you in the form of emotions, tensions etc. About being able to witness the mind's racing thoughts, or numbness, or elation... whatever is there. If there is such a thing as spiritual fulfillment, and I think there is, it is slowly, slowly constructed outside of meditation in the everyday life by actions of love, forgiveness and empathy towards ourselves and others.Meditation helps us do what's necessary to grow, but it's just a tool along the way. If I would start to see meditation as a retreat or hiding place or bliss machine, I would abuse of it's function. I would see everything that comes up in meditation that's not calming or giving me rest, or making me blissful as an enemy, or a sign that I'm not doing it correctly. On the contrary, whatever comes up when I close my eyes to meditate is supposed to be there and is there for a reason. I don't need to know the reason, though. :-)cheers,Henrik I've been trying a 15 minute TM and it's funny cause the meditations aremore intense. I guess the old saying "we're an experiment of one"applies here.Thanks.Jeff> > Jeff, personally, I think mindfulness and TM could potentially both> work as well. In a nutshell - if you're happy with how things are> going now, keep your practice the way it is. If you're not, try and> change some part of it.> > It's OK to try out different things, but I would perhaps suggest you> change one small part and then evaluate how/if it affects your life.> If you change everything at once, you'll have more difficulties> assessing what worked and what didn't.> > best of luck!> > Henrik> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks for replying. So I take it that dropping the mantra means> > you're> > doing more of a mindfulness meditation now. Have you noticed a> > difference in how you feel?> > > > > > > > > > I've recently noticed how similar mantra and mindfulness meditations> > are. Both watch thoughts passing by but the mantra gives you> > something> > to "hang on" to while you watch. Even though they're similar, I do> > notice a difference in their effects. In a nutshell, TM seems to> > relax> > me physically while mindfulness helps to clear my mind. I'm just> > wondering if I can save time by dropping the TM or if I would lose> > the> > physical stress release, like you mentioned, if I did.> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > Hi Jeff,> > >> > > Long time TM-meditator myself (approachi ng 30 years) - but have> > > dropped the mantra since a few years. (I also did the TM-Sidhi> > > technique for 20 years or so. And I did 3 months of teacher> > > training> > > course - don't want to be reminded of the teacher training - ugly> > > indoctrination! )> > >> > > My take on TM and how Maharishi explained the function of the> > > mantras> > > was that they serve as a tool or vehicle to help the mind settle> > > down.> > > Once the mind has settled down a bit, the "release of stress"> > > starts.> > > Release of stress is noticed when thoughts, feelings, bodily> > > sensations, memories are allowed their own course.> > >> > > I have never heard Maharishi or Deepak Chopra for that matter> > > talking> > > about the mantras as having some kind of intrinsic value. They are> > > just a tool that allows the process of stress-release to function> > > smoothly.> > >> > > With that said, I think you should find the meditation technique> > > that> > & gt; works best for you personally. This is also true regarding the> > length> > > of your meditation. Do what works for you. Doing what works - long> > > term - is also proba bly the best way to stay healthy. If you stay> > > healthy, you're possibly also going to add years to your life.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Hope this helps,> > >> > > Henrik> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > On 28 sep 2011 15:53 "Jeff Beres" > > > wrote:> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I started doing TM about seven years ago. While meditating, I> > > > experienced what the TMer's call "witnessing," which ACT calls> > > > the> > > > observing self. I did a little research and that's how I found> > > > ACT.> > > > After reading GOYMAIYL, I started doing the leaves on a stream>> > > > > meditation. I didn't want to stop the TM so I looked around> > > > > for> > > > advice.> > > > It seemed like everyone picked a side, mindfulness or mantra> > > > meditation.> > > > The only person who seemed unbiased was Deepak Chopra so I sent> > > > him> > > > an> > > > email. He wrote back the next day, surprisingly, and advised me> > > > to> > > > do> > > > the tm in the morning, wait five minutes, then do the> > > > mindfulness.> > > > The n> > > > TM again in the evening. So that's what I've been doing for the> > > > last> > > > 3> > > > or 4 years.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I'd like to pare down this meditation schedule a bit but I> > > > hesitate> > > > dropping the TM because some studies show evidence of mantra> > > > meditation> > > > adding a few years to your life. But the last study I read found> > > > that> > > > most meditation studies were poorl y done and often biased so I> > > > don't> > > > know.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I read somewhere that there are two ways to extend your life;> > > > calorie> > > > restriction and dropping your core temperature. Supposedly TM> > > > reduces> > > > your core temperature. Whenever I take my temperature these days> > > > it's> > > > about 97.4 so maybe there's something to that. I don't know.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Anyone have any advice?> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Jeff Beres-----------------Check out the Horror Screenwriter's Page at:http://home.comcast.net/~jberes5/horror.htm Jeff Beres-----------------Check out the Horror Screenwriter's Page at: http://home.comcast.net/~jberes5/horror.htm

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I felt this was worth emphasizing, Jeff: " Actually, the morning meditations these days are more like springboards for the mindfulness exercises I do during the day. " Very well put and worth spending a few moments reflecting on. Thank you.

Some famous dude once said, " Do not take the word of Osho, or of Darrell, as Truth. Instead, investigate for yourself what works... " Or something like that.D

>  >> Actually, the morning meditations these days are more like springboards for the mindfulness exercises I do during the day. I think I mentioned here before that I like doing the awareness exercises at the end of chapter 23 in The Happiness Trap throughout the day. These exercises seem to provide the emotional security to open myself to myself and others. In fact, these exercises are so effective, I was going to drop the morning meditations altogether, which is why I started this thread. But I've noticed that the meditations make the exercises more effective. I think it's all toward the same goal of being more aware of each moment during the day. 

> My concern with the TM was that sometimes it can be such a shallow experience that I wonder if I'm just spinning my wheels and would be better off sticking to the mindfulness exercises. I've read a lot of books by Osho and he's very opposed to TM. He thinks it's closer to hypnosis than meditation. But sometimes it's a profound experience and it " centers me, " which I think is what meditation is all about. 

> Thanks, Henrik. > >>  > I enjoy this exchange, Jeff! I like your pragmatic take on meditation.> Just wanted to ask you...> It's sometimes difficult with e-mails - I think I'm with you, but just wanted to ask: 

> When I read your last post, I wanted to write a word of caution (maybe not called for...)> As I see it:The effects of meditation are primarily noticed in you everyday life, not in how the meditation is experienced. I have had tough and often boring  meditations as long as I can remember  - a lot of thoughts, emotions, numbness, memories - but have been able to live my life more in accordance with my values, thanks to it. 

> Meditation, as I see it, shouldn't be about wanting to reach a certain emotional, mental or spiritual state while practicing. It's about allowing, accepting, giving room for... what's naturally inside. About giving the body space to talk to you in the form of emotions, tensions etc. About being able to witness the mind's racing thoughts, or numbness, or elation... whatever is there. 

> If there is such a thing as spiritual fulfillment, and I think there is, it is slowly, slowly constructed outside of meditation in the everyday life by actions of love, forgiveness and empathy towards ourselves and others.

> Meditation helps us do what's necessary to grow, but it's just a tool along the way. If I would start to see meditation as a retreat or hiding place or bliss machine, I would abuse of it's function. I would see everything that comes up in meditation that's not calming or giving me rest, or making me blissful as an enemy, or a sign that I'm not doing it correctly. 

> On the contrary, whatever comes up when I close my eyes to meditate is supposed to be there and is there for a reason. I don't need to know the reason, though. :-)> cheers,> Henrik>>

>>>>>>> I've been trying a 15 minute TM and it's funny cause the meditations are> more intense. I guess the old saying " we're an experiment of one "

> applies here.>>>>> Thanks.>>>>> Jeff>>> >>>>>> Jeff, personally, I think mindfulness and TM could potentially both

>> work as well. In a nutshell - if you're happy with how things are>> going now, keep your practice the way it is. If you're not, try and>> change some part of it.>>>> It's OK to try out different things, but I would perhaps suggest you

>> change one small part and then evaluate how/if it affects your life.>> If you change everything at once, you'll have more difficulties>> assessing what worked and what didn't.>>

>> best of luck!>>>> Henrik>>>>>>>>

>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > thanks for replying. So I take it that dropping the mantra means>> > you're

>> > doing more of a mindfulness meditation now. Have you noticed a>> > difference in how you feel?>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > I've recently noticed how similar mantra and mindfulness meditations

>> > are. Both watch thoughts passing by but the mantra gives you>> > something>> > to " hang on " to while you watch. Even though they're similar, I do>> > notice a difference in their effects. In a nutshell, TM seems to

>> > relax>> > me physically while mindfulness helps to clear my mind. I'm just>> > wondering if I can save time by dropping the TM or if I would lose>> > the>> > physical stress release, like you mentioned, if I did.

>> >>> >>> > >> >>> >>> > >>> > > Hi Jeff,>> > >>> > > Long time TM-meditator myself (approachi ng 30 years) - but have

>> > > dropped the mantra since a few years. (I also did the TM-Sidhi>> > > technique for 20 years or so. And I did 3 months of teacher>> > > training>>>> -- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@...