Re: Willingness and wantingess

[Guest guest]

Hi Dr McCurry,

Thank you very much for posting. I love the idea of 'wantingness' instead of 'willingness'. I often find that I have plenty of 'wantingness' - but 'just doing it' is real problematic for me in certain situations - it brings up intense anxiety, physically. I have learnt in part to make space for that - but on some of the 'bigger' actions I lose my way hesitate and withdraw. Especially when something is a way off and it gives me plenty of time to ruminate. The ruminating screws me to the spot like a frightened rabbit.

I wondered how you get your clients to move forward when their feet seem glued to the spot?

And for those of us that don't feel that they can 'just do it' what would you suggest? And how to deal with the resulting guilt?

I really hope that you post more here.

Simone

Subject: Willingness and wantingessTo: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Thursday, 29 September, 2011, 22:10

Bill Cameron contacted me and suggested I put an oar in the water here. On September 9th he’d cited my ACT book for parents of anxious kids and the idea of “willingness†versus a word I just made up- “wantingnessâ€. Willingness is a slippery concept. In fact, Steve always says that willingness is “no thingâ€; it’s not something one does apart from just doing what is there to be done. It’s just people going about their day-to-day lives- getting out of bed when they’d rather sleep in, plunging into their work or school tasks even though it’s boring or stressful, standing in the rain watching their child’s soccer game on Saturday morning (I’m in Seattle).

It’s unlikely that people really WANT to do these things, at least not all the time. But they’re willing to in the service of some larger story they have to tell themselves- people are counting on me to be there, I need to keep this job or do well in school for various reasons, I’m a good parent and this is what good parents do.

As a child psychologist I encounter kids who have a hard time with this. They think they have to want to do something in order to do it. They call it “motivation†and claim they lack it. Parents buy into this and bring them to me to somehow get them motivated. I get some variation of “I can’t do my homework because I don’t want to. When I obtain the motivation (God forbid) I’ll be able to do itâ€. The other kids must be doing their homework because they want to. Adults surely do all the stuff they do because they want to. As if. No, people often do things, not because they want to, but because they are reasonably sure that this action will get them something positive or perhaps help avoid something even more unpleasant (think flossing). Without a story that dignifies and gives meaning to our current struggle and pain, any of us will be dead in the water. The story (commitment) allows for the acceptance

piece that allows appropriate action to just happen. We make room for, but not buy into or attempt to purge, the habitual, negative commentary; all those reasons we give ourselves to avoid, resist, and hesitate. Interestingly, it can happen that in the moment of action even the story fades into the background. For that moment, we are just doing. We go from verbiage to verb.

The stark and hopeful fact is; for much of what life is asking of us we can’t wait for “wantingnessâ€, we have to “just do itâ€. The late comedian Winters once commented on his career; “I couldn’t wait for success, so I went ahead without itâ€.

[Guest guest]

If I may chip in, Simone, I have found in myself and others an unrealistic expectation that somehow, someday, " just do it " will suddenly become comfortable and I will be able to move ahead with it. What actually proved more accurate has been action despite discomfort. Baby steps or bounding leaps, the key for me was learning to move while anxious. From that perspectives, your small victories become exercises in a larger exposure-type campaign and perhaps they deserve more celebration....

Perhaps when your feet are glued, you might start by just shifting your weight a bit, so to speak, proving to yourself you can move while anxious!D

 

Hi Dr McCurry,

 

Thank you very much for posting. I love the idea of 'wantingness' instead of 'willingness'. I often find that I have plenty of 'wantingness' - but 'just doing it' is real problematic for me in certain situations - it brings up intense anxiety, physically. I have learnt in part to make space for that - but on some of the 'bigger' actions I lose my way hesitate and withdraw. Especially when something is a way off and it gives me plenty of time to ruminate. The ruminating screws me to the spot like a frightened rabbit.

I wondered how you get your clients to move forward when their feet seem glued to the spot?

And for those of us that don't feel that they can 'just do it' what would you suggest? And how to deal with the resulting guilt?

I really hope that you post more here.

 

Simone

Subject: Willingness and wantingess

To: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Thursday, 29 September, 2011, 22:10

 

Bill Cameron contacted me and suggested I put an oar in the water here. On September 9th he’d cited my ACT book for parents of anxious kids and the idea of “willingness” versus a word I just made up- “wantingness”. Willingness is a slippery concept. In fact, Steve always says that willingness is “no thing”; it’s not something one does apart from just doing what is there to be done. It’s just people going about their day-to-day lives- getting out of bed when they’d rather sleep in, plunging into their work or school tasks even though it’s boring or stressful, standing in the rain watching their child’s soccer game on Saturday morning (I’m in Seattle).

It’s unlikely that people really WANT to do these things, at least not all the time. But they’re willing to in the service of some larger story they have to tell themselves- people are counting on me to be there, I need to keep this job or do well in school for various reasons, I’m a good parent and this is what good parents do.

As a child psychologist I encounter kids who have a hard time with this. They think they have to want to do something in order to do it. They call it “motivation” and claim they lack it. Parents buy into this and bring them to me to somehow get them motivated. I get some variation of “I can’t do my homework because I don’t want to. When I obtain the motivation (God forbid) I’ll be able to do it”. The other kids must be doing their homework because they want to. Adults surely do all the stuff they do because they want to. As if. No, people often do things, not because they want to, but because they are reasonably sure that this action will get them something positive or perhaps help avoid something even more unpleasant (think flossing). Without a story that dignifies and gives meaning to our current struggle and pain, any of us will be dead in the water. The story (commitment) allows for the acceptance

piece that allows appropriate action to just happen. We make room for, but not buy into or attempt to purge, the habitual, negative commentary; all those reasons we give ourselves to avoid, resist, and hesitate. Interestingly, it can happen that in the moment of action even the story fades into the background. For that moment, we are just doing. We go from verbiage to verb.

The stark and hopeful fact is; for much of what life is asking of us we can’t wait for “wantingness”, we have to “just do it”. The late comedian Winters once commented on his career; “I couldn’t wait for success, so I went ahead without it”.

 

[Guest guest]

>

> The stark and hopeful fact is: for much of what life is asking of

> us we can't wait for " wantingness, " we have to " just do it. " The

> late comedian Winters once commented on his career: " I

> couldn't wait for success, so I went ahead without it. "

What interests me about " willingess " is that it seems to be not a

quality, but an action. I think this is especially true in those

domains where we seem to stall or have doubts or question whether

our motivation is sufficient.

And what also interests me is that willingness gets dramatically

better when we actually do get started on something. Not always,

but often. Goal-setting and planning and so on is helpful, of

course; but what I am talking about is getting our hands dirty by

starting a specific task that leads in the direction of not just a

value but a goal - even if the goal is the thing in doubt.

It is like thinking about a garden & wavering over whether this

plot of land is OK and what to plant, and wavering & wavering;

versus getting on old clothes & grabbing a spade or trowel and

starting to turn the soil. That is the moment the soil starts

to become interesting.

What is abstract can always remain cloudy & in doubt. What is

specific, like the soil, can be worked with.

I think it has something to do with our minds and bodies needing

structure in order to operate. So I create a little stub of an

activity to begin with, and that is my structure to start.

Of course putting something out there means the possibility of

failure. And many things do fail. But without failure there is no

growth nor any chance of success, either.

- Randy

[Guest guest]

I think it's not just kids who have a hard time with "wantingness". I can certainly relate to it. I feel like I should want to do what I need to do and that there's something wrong with me that I don't. I see others cheerfully doing things and feel like they have motivation that I don't. I am judging my insides vs. their outsides, as the saying goes, and finding myself lacking. So this is a very good posting for me to ponder.I was struck by the sentence "Without a story that dignifies and gives meaning to our current struggle and pain, any of us will feel dead in the water". I think this is an important point. Using ACT, I've been naming negative stories but I haven't given much thought to a positive narrative for my life. How important is it to have positive stories to motivate us?On Sep 29, 2011, at 2:10 PM, McCurry, Ph.D. wrote:Bill Cameron contacted me and suggested I put an oar in the water here. On September 9th he’d cited my ACT book for parents of anxious kids and the idea of “willingness” versus a word I just made up- “wantingness”. Willingness is a slippery concept. In fact, Steve always says that willingness is “no thing”; it’s not something one does apart from just doing what is there to be done. It’s just people going about their day-to-day lives- getting out of bed when they’d rather sleep in, plunging into their work or school tasks even though it’s boring or stressful, standing in the rain watching their child’s soccer game on Saturday morning (I’m in Seattle).It’s unlikely that people really WANT to do these things, at least not all the time. But they’re willing to in the service of some larger story they have to tell themselves- people are counting on me to be there, I need to keep this job or do well in school for various reasons, I’m a good parent and this is what good parents do.As a child psychologist I encounter kids who have a hard time with this. They think they have to want to do something in order to do it. They call it “motivation” and claim they lack it. Parents buy into this and bring them to me to somehow get them motivated. I get some variation of “I can’t do my homework because I don’t want to. When I obtain the motivation (God forbid) I’ll be able to do it”. The other kids must be doing their homework because they want to. Adults surely do all the stuff they do because they want to. As if. No, people often do things, not because they want to, but because they are reasonably sure that this action will get them something positive or perhaps help avoid something even more unpleasant (think flossing). Without a story that dignifies and gives meaning to our current struggle and pain, any of us will be dead in the water. The story (commitment) allows for the acceptance piece that allows appropriate action to just happen. We make room for, but not buy into or attempt to purge, the habitual, negative commentary; all those reasons we give ourselves to avoid, resist, and hesitate. Interestingly, it can happen that in the moment of action even the story fades into the background. For that moment, we are just doing. We go from verbiage to verb.The stark and hopeful fact is; for much of what life is asking of us we can’t wait for “wantingness”, we have to “just do it”. The late comedian Winters once commented on his career; “I couldn’t wait for success, so I went ahead without it”.

[Guest guest]

In ACT for the Public, Bruce wrote:

>

> I feel like I should want to do what I need to do and that there's

> something wrong with me that I don't. I see others cheerfully doing

> things and feel like they have motivation that I don't. I am

> judging my insides vs. their outsides, as the saying goes, and

> finding myself lacking. So this is a very good posting for me to

> ponder.

Bruce - bear with me if you can -

If you see yourself judging " my insides vs. their outsides "

and see that you are having thoughts that " I am lacking " - is

this a problem? Do you have to get rid of this judging & these

thoughts?

How has that worked so far?

I know I sound like a broken record. Which gives me an idea.

Say you recorded yourself saying these thoughts onto an old-

fashioned wax cylinder, or somehow got them onto an old

phonograph record. And say you started playing the record &

hearing yourself say these things. And say you pretended

that you had no control over the volume and there was no

" off " knob and you could not unplug it either. And say it

it was playing in your home - right where your family is -

and that a similar model was playing where you work - etc.

You get the picture.

Would you have to give up everything else to try and find

a way to turn the record player off or turn the volume down?

Say you couldn't. And that you started having thoughts about

how discouraging it was that you couldn't - about how bad

it was that you would have to spend your life listening to

this record player no matter where you are.

And what if you then recorded yourself saying these things,

and put THAT on a record, and started to play THAT record too?

On the other hand - what happens if you start listening to

the quality of the recording & really paying attention to that -

sort of as an audiophile might. Or if you start listening to

the words & see if any of them rhyme. Or if at a certain

point you start doing something anyway that you want to do,

with the record playing in the background.

What if instead of spending your time crouching in front of

the record player trying to move knobs that don't move, you

start walking around the room & doing other stuff?

What if the record player played, and you did stuff, and

sometimes you heard the record player in the background,

and sometimes you found yourself not hearing it - and either

way it was OK?

I've been there too. I fully get the head trip. It's a head

trip. You are more than a head. Ponder if you like ... but

be aware you can ponder your entire life away, crouching by

the record player.

And if when you hear " ponder my life away " you suddenly have

the thought that THIS is the real problem, and that you need

to feel bad about THIS too ... now you have another record

for your the record player. And another chance to choose, too.

Because maybe they're all the same record player . . .

- Randy

[Guest guest]

Thank you for this, Randy. What you write is very helpful. The record player metaphor is a very good description of where I am right now.BruceIn ACT for the Public, Bruce wrote:> > I feel like I should want to do what I need to do and that there's> something wrong with me that I don't. I see others cheerfully doing> things and feel like they have motivation that I don't. I am> judging my insides vs. their outsides, as the saying goes, and> finding myself lacking. So this is a very good posting for me to> ponder.Bruce - bear with me if you can - If you see yourself judging "my insides vs. their outsides" and see that you are having thoughts that "I am lacking" - is this a problem? Do you have to get rid of this judging & these thoughts?How has that worked so far? I know I sound like a broken record. Which gives me an idea.Say you recorded yourself saying these thoughts onto an old-fashioned wax cylinder, or somehow got them onto an old phonograph record. And say you started playing the record & hearing yourself say these things. And say you pretendedthat you had no control over the volume and there was no "off" knob and you could not unplug it either. And say itit was playing in your home - right where your family is -and that a similar model was playing where you work - etc.You get the picture.Would you have to give up everything else to try and finda way to turn the record player off or turn the volume down?Say you couldn't. And that you started having thoughts abouthow discouraging it was that you couldn't - about how badit was that you would have to spend your life listening tothis record player no matter where you are. And what if you then recorded yourself saying these things,and put THAT on a record, and started to play THAT record too? On the other hand - what happens if you start listening tothe quality of the recording & really paying attention to that -sort of as an audiophile might. Or if you start listening tothe words & see if any of them rhyme. Or if at a certain point you start doing something anyway that you want to do,with the record playing in the background. What if instead of spending your time crouching in front ofthe record player trying to move knobs that don't move, youstart walking around the room & doing other stuff? What if the record player played, and you did stuff, andsometimes you heard the record player in the background, and sometimes you found yourself not hearing it - and eitherway it was OK? I've been there too. I fully get the head trip. It's a headtrip. You are more than a head. Ponder if you like ... butbe aware you can ponder your entire life away, crouching bythe record player.And if when you hear "ponder my life away" you suddenly havethe thought that THIS is the real problem, and that you need to feel bad about THIS too ... now you have another record for your the record player. And another chance to choose, too. Because maybe they're all the same record player . . . - Randy

[Guest guest]

Thanks Darrell,

I don't think I'm expecting it to be easy or comfortable - just wanting it to be! I suppose (sigh) I am still not wanting to feel the anxiety to any great degree. I'm thinking of taking a huge leap and it (unsurprisingly) is bringing up all kinds of evaluations and predictions. I have been chipping away at the solid rock of my concepts for some time - the little chips I can manage- big boulders make me go into retreat mode. Maybe I just need to learn to trust this process a bit more - yes, shifting my weight a little - it feels like poking my demon with a stick! - but I'll give it a try!

Simone

Subject: Willingness and wantingessTo: ACT_for_the_Public Date: Thursday, 29 September, 2011, 22:10

Bill Cameron contacted me and suggested I put an oar in the water here. On September 9th he’d cited my ACT book for parents of anxious kids and the idea of “willingness†versus a word I just made up- “wantingnessâ€. Willingness is a slippery concept. In fact, Steve always says that willingness is “no thingâ€; it’s not something one does apart from just doing what is there to be done. It’s just people going about their day-to-day lives- getting out of bed when they’d rather sleep in, plunging into their work or school tasks even though it’s boring or stressful, standing in the rain watching their child’s soccer game on Saturday morning (I’m in Seattle).

It’s unlikely that people really WANT to do these things, at least not all the time. But they’re willing to in the service of some larger story they have to tell themselves- people are counting on me to be there, I need to keep this job or do well in school for various reasons, I’m a good parent and this is what good parents do.

As a child psychologist I encounter kids who have a hard time with this. They think they have to want to do something in order to do it. They call it “motivation†and claim they lack it. Parents buy into this and bring them to me to somehow get them motivated. I get some variation of “I can’t do my homework because I don’t want to. When I obtain the motivation (God forbid) I’ll be able to do itâ€. The other kids must be doing their homework because they want to. Adults surely do all the stuff they do because they want to. As if. No, people often do things, not because they want to, but because they are reasonably sure that this action will get them something positive or perhaps help avoid something even more unpleasant (think flossing). Without a story that dignifies and gives meaning to our current struggle and pain, any of us will be dead in the water. The story (commitment) allows for the acceptance piece that allows

appropriate action to just happen. We make room for, but not buy into or attempt to purge, the habitual, negative commentary; all those reasons we give ourselves to avoid, resist, and hesitate. Interestingly, it can happen that in the moment of action even the story fades into the background. For that moment, we are just doing. We go from verbiage to verb.

The stark and hopeful fact is; for much of what life is asking of us we can’t wait for “wantingnessâ€, we have to “just do itâ€. The late comedian Winters once commented on his career; “I couldn’t wait for success, so I went ahead without itâ€.

[Guest guest]

hi randy:-)i loooooooooooove this email u wrote and the example u gave of a record player. when u explain things in ur emails, i really get i, not to mention u write very beautifully , so jazakallah khair:-)p.s. i hope ur frined is doing well. and did u hear fromanyone for the letter u wrote to ur town newspaper?-K Designs.

> > >

> > > I feel like I should want to do what I need to do and that there's

> > > something wrong with me that I don't. I see others cheerfully doing

> > > things and feel like they have motivation that I don't. I am

> > > judging my insides vs. their outsides, as the saying goes, and

> > > finding myself lacking. So this is a very good posting for me to

> > > ponder.

> >

> > Bruce - bear with me if you can -

> >

> > If you see yourself judging "my insides vs. their outsides"

> > and see that you are having thoughts that "I am lacking" - is

> > this a problem? Do you have to get rid of this judging & these

> > thoughts?

> >

> > How has that worked so far?

> >

> > I know I sound like a broken record. Which gives me an idea.

> >

> > Say you recorded yourself saying these thoughts onto an old-

> > fashioned wax cylinder, or somehow got them onto an old

> > phonograph record. And say you started playing the record &

> > hearing yourself say these things. And say you pretended

> > that you had no control over the volume and there was no

> > "off" knob and you could not unplug it either. And say it

> > it was playing in your home - right where your family is -

> > and that a similar model was playing where you work - etc.

> > You get the picture.

> >

> > Would you have to give up everything else to try and find

> > a way to turn the record player off or turn the volume down?

> >

> > Say you couldn't. And that you started having thoughts about

> > how discouraging it was that you couldn't - about how bad

> > it was that you would have to spend your life listening to

> > this record player no matter where you are.

> >

> > And what if you then recorded yourself saying these things,

> > and put THAT on a record, and started to play THAT record too?

> >

> > On the other hand - what happens if you start listening to

> > the quality of the recording & really paying attention to that -

> > sort of as an audiophile might. Or if you start listening to

> > the words & see if any of them rhyme. Or if at a certain

> > point you start doing something anyway that you want to do,

> > with the record playing in the background.

> >

> > What if instead of spending your time crouching in front of

> > the record player trying to move knobs that don't move, you

> > start walking around the room & doing other stuff?

> >

> > What if the record player played, and you did stuff, and

> > sometimes you heard the record player in the background,

> > and sometimes you found yourself not hearing it - and either

> > way it was OK?

> >

> > I've been there too. I fully get the head trip. It's a head

> > trip. You are more than a head. Ponder if you like ... but

> > be aware you can ponder your entire life away, crouching by

> > the record player.

> >

> > And if when you hear "ponder my life away" you suddenly have

> > the thought that THIS is the real problem, and that you need

> > to feel bad about THIS too ... now you have another record

> > for your the record player. And another chance to choose, too.

> >

> > Because maybe they're all the same record player . . .

> >

> > - Randy

[Guest guest]

> p.s. i hope ur frined is doing well. and did u hear from

> anyone for the letter u wrote to ur town newspaper?

Hi ,

Thanks for asking. For the first one, my friend is back in

her house, which is a good start. Not sure yet what she

thinks of ACT - I don't want to push her too hard on that,

it is her choice as to whether she looks into it.

And for the second one, the letter to the paper, I consulted

w/my partner (she is also involved in this community issue,

even more so than I) and she wants to take a different

approach which would not involve the letter I spoke of, or

at least not yet. So we're going to do it her way & see what

happens. Vive la flexibilité!

- R.