Re: Confidence Gap and Myths

[Guest guest]

I think that horrible (and horrifying) things that happen to you in your life lay down tracks in every cell of your body, and no amount of positive (or negative, or the various shades of CBT/Act, or even neutral) psychology, nor a pharmacy's worth of "antidepressants" will or can make a jot of difference to your pain.You live with it until you die. In the meantime, you use whatever blunts the pain to get a few moments of relief. For some it's substances, for others it's religion, or work, or whatever floats your boat.No one actually wants to die before "their time", but sometimes the only way to stop the incessant pain is to zero out.I'm not quite there, but have felt close more than a few times. I think I understand why others have done it.Language is important and plays a part, but for some there are tracks in the cells for which there is no language; those tracks aren't amenable to "thinking different".Arthur Janov thought he'd found the panacea for those kinds of pains decades ago. The fuckwit didn't have the intelligence to realize he'd only scratched the surface, if that. Then again, maybe he did, but decided to end all enquiry and capitalize on what he he did know: that people in great pain will pay megabucks if offered a pain-free future that doesn't depend on medication or any other exterior crutch. In some ways, I think that CBT and Act play on this wish, too.>> Hi everyone,> > I have a final Monday evening it a graduate Electrical Engineering class> and so need to be studying for that. But during breaks from work and> study, I've been reading Russ's Confidence Gap. It causes be to think> about a lot of things.> > Russ talks about some myths we have - about general things like Einstein> getting bad grades in school to our using only 10% of our brains to myths> about confidence and self-esteem.> > I think a couple of myths that were prevalent in 20th century are these two.> > 1. That humans have no nature or that our minds are Blank Slates. See> Pinker's book The Blank Slate for tons of details on this. This is> one of my favorite all time books.> > 2. That language and what we say and what we think has such strong control> over our behavior and feelings. In CG, Russ has you do experiment where> you say to yourself "I can't raise my arms" while raising your arms.> > These myths I think you see a lot in 20th Century writings and thinking and> theories. You see them in popular self-help books and teachers today in> that they preach you can discard your past and start over fresh and that> positive affirmations will have a great positive effect on you. ("I'm good> enough, I'm smart enough and darn gone it, people like me")> > I think Albert Ellis's obsession with language and disputing irrational> statements went overboard. Ellis wrote whole books without using any form> of the verb to be. He worried that statements using this verb causes us to> overgeneralize. Like, "I am a lawyer (or teacher or engineer, etc.)" or> "I am a husband". He argued you are many things and just a lawyer or> husband etc. Or "I am a loser" or "you are a loser" or "he is a> winner". He often argues that to be a loser means you have to lose 100% of> the time and that we all win some and loss some. True. But I think he> went to extremes on this.> > Also, Ellis sometimes write tying to use more action verbs - so instead of> writing "She is depressed" he writes the much more awkward statement, "She> depresses herself"> > On human nature, Ellis was so bad but still I think in some subtle ways it> crept into in writings and thinking. He had a super optimistic belief that> we nutty humans can greatly reduce our nuttiness and so in a sense override> our nutty nature.> > Now, in CG, Russ says our minds will give you negative thoughts whenever we> step into any kind of uncomfortable position or try to accomplish something> that is new to us. He says this is our nature. This is human nature and> the results of millions of years of evolution. So in this respect, ACT> does not deny the existence of human nature.> > So, any thoughts? Is this interesting? Or is this boring the crap out> you? Let me know. I may not get around to answering until after Monday.> > Cheers!> > >

[Guest guest]

I'm also reading The Confidence Gap and find it so compelling. My favorite quote is: "The actions of confidence come first; the feelings of confidence come later."My life is full of examples where I waited for the confident feelings and missed the boat, as well as times when I took what felt like risky, uncomfortable actions and was glad I did. I'm in awe of people who seem to thrive on risk.I have kids and grand kids all across the risk-taking spectrum. Good luck on your final.BillTo: ACT_for_the_Public From: bauer.russell@...Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 10:58:16 -0700Subject: Confidence Gap and Myths

Hi everyone,I have a final Monday evening it a graduate Electrical Engineering class and so need to be studying for that. But during breaks from work and study, I've been reading Russ's Confidence Gap. It causes be to think about a lot of things.

Russ talks about some myths we have - about general things like Einstein getting bad grades in school to our using only 10% of our brains to myths about confidence and self-esteem. I think a couple of myths that were prevalent in 20th century are these two.

1. That humans have no nature or that our minds are Blank Slates. See Pinker's book The Blank Slate for tons of details on this. This is one of my favorite all time books.2. That language and what we say and what we think has such strong control over our behavior and feelings. In CG, Russ has you do experiment where you say to yourself "I can't raise my arms" while raising your arms.

These myths I think you see a lot in 20th Century writings and thinking and theories. You see them in popular self-help books and teachers today in that they preach you can discard your past and start over fresh and that positive affirmations will have a great positive effect on you. ("I'm good enough, I'm smart enough and darn gone it, people like me")

I think Albert Ellis's obsession with language and disputing irrational statements went overboard. Ellis wrote whole books without using any form of the verb to be. He worried that statements using this verb causes us to overgeneralize. Like, "I am a lawyer (or teacher or engineer, etc.)" or "I am a husband". He argued you are many things and just a lawyer or husband etc. Or "I am a loser" or "you are a loser" or "he is a winner". He often argues that to be a loser means you have to lose 100% of the time and that we all win some and loss some. True. But I think he went to extremes on this.

Also, Ellis sometimes write tying to use more action verbs - so instead of writing "She is depressed" he writes the much more awkward statement, "She depresses herself"On human nature, Ellis was so bad but still I think in some subtle ways it crept into in writings and thinking. He had a super optimistic belief that we nutty humans can greatly reduce our nuttiness and so in a sense override our nutty nature.

Now, in CG, Russ says our minds will give you negative thoughts whenever we step into any kind of uncomfortable position or try to accomplish something that is new to us. He says this is our nature. This is human nature and the results of millions of years of evolution. So in this respect, ACT does not deny the existence of human nature.

So, any thoughts? Is this interesting? Or is this boring the crap out you? Let me know. I may not get around to answering until after Monday.Cheers!

[Guest guest]

Thanks!  Bill!It's situational for me.  I love exams and so even though I may be nervous on Monday, I'm looking forward to it.  And I like dance fitness classes and go to them regularly.  But I'm often the only guy of a class of 50 or at most there is one or two other guys in the class.  So I'm sometimes feel like I stick out and get just a little nervous.  And I use to teach college math.  I would get sweaty armpits and palms while teaching, but funny I didn't think that I was nervous.  In all these cases, I really do not think of it as fear or anxiety but actually kind of like the nervous feeling.  Like Russ says I think of being more pumped than anxious.

I've been at same job for 12 years and haven't had a job interview in that time.  Job interviews just wreck me!  I mean I am so jacked up that I don't come down for days afterwards.  I always feel like such an idiot too.  I often felt very embarrass too during and after the interview because of something I think was really stupid for me say.

And when I ask a girl out on a date I get so nervous I totally whack out and start blabbing and get a bit weird and then freak out the girl.  Her eyes get big and she starts looking around for an exit.  When she gets the chance she says " I gotta run " and literally runs away.

OK.  I'm exaggerating some.  But you get the point.  There are some situations that I get tangled up in the fear and fuse with my fearful thoughts and other situations where I don't get tangled and stay defused and then actually like that nervousness or pumped up feeling.

Well, I better hit the books.  Later.Cheers

 

I'm also reading The Confidence Gap and find it so compelling. My favorite quote is:

          " The actions of confidence come first; the feelings of confidence come later. "

My life is full of examples where I waited for the confident feelings and missed the boat, as well as times when I took what felt like risky, uncomfortable actions and was glad I did. I'm in awe of people who seem to thrive on risk.

I have kids and grand kids all across the risk-taking spectrum. 

Good luck on your final.BillTo: ACT_for_the_Public

From: bauer.russell@...Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 10:58:16 -0700Subject: Confidence Gap and Myths

 

Hi everyone,I have a final Monday evening it a graduate Electrical Engineering class and so need to be studying for that.  But during breaks from work and study, I've been reading Russ's Confidence Gap.  It causes be to think about a lot of things.

Russ talks about some myths we have - about general things like Einstein getting bad grades in school to our using only 10% of our brains to myths about confidence and self-esteem.  I think a couple of myths that were prevalent in 20th century are these two.

1.  That humans have no nature or that our minds are Blank Slates.  See Pinker's book The Blank Slate for tons of details on this.  This is one of my favorite all time books.2.  That language and what we say and what we think has such strong control over our behavior and feelings.  In CG, Russ has you do experiment where you say to yourself " I can't raise my arms " while raising your arms.

These myths I think you see a lot in 20th Century writings and thinking and theories.  You see them in popular self-help books and teachers today in that they preach you can discard your past and start over fresh and that positive affirmations will have a great positive effect on you.  ( " I'm good enough, I'm smart enough and darn gone it, people like me " )

I think Albert Ellis's obsession with language and disputing irrational statements went overboard.  Ellis wrote whole books without using any form of the verb to be.  He worried that statements using this verb causes us to overgeneralize.  Like, " I am a lawyer (or teacher or engineer, etc.) "   or " I am a husband " .  He argued you are many things and just a lawyer or husband etc.  Or " I am a loser "   or " you are a loser "   or " he is a winner " .  He often argues that to be a loser means you have to lose 100% of the time and that we all win some and loss some.  True.  But I think he went to extremes on this. 

Also, Ellis sometimes write tying to use more action verbs - so instead of writing " She is depressed " he writes the much more awkward statement, " She depresses herself " On human nature, Ellis was so bad but still I think in some subtle ways it crept into in writings and thinking.  He had a super optimistic belief that we nutty humans can greatly reduce our nuttiness and so in a sense override our nutty nature.

Now, in CG, Russ says our minds will give you negative thoughts whenever we step into any kind of uncomfortable position or try to accomplish something that is new to us.  He says this is our nature.   This is human nature and the results of millions of years of evolution.  So in this respect, ACT does not deny the existence of human nature.

So, any thoughts?  Is this interesting?  Or is this boring the crap out you?  Let me know.  I may not get around to answering until after Monday.Cheers!

[Guest guest]

(and everyone else),

A very interesting and informative book is '50 Great Myths of Popular

Psychology' (http://tinyurl.com/79n8dlv). It's written by a team of four

psychologists and is highly evidence-based.

They also include a 'myth-busting' kit to help us distinguish science from

pseudoscience. There's a lot of rubbish about psychology in the media and

self-help books, and we need all the help we can get when it comes to working

out what's true and what's not.

Cheers,

Stan

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> I have a final Monday evening it a graduate Electrical Engineering class

> and so need to be studying for that. But during breaks from work and

> study, I've been reading Russ's Confidence Gap. It causes be to think

> about a lot of things.

>

> Russ talks about some myths we have - about general things like Einstein

> getting bad grades in school to our using only 10% of our brains to myths

> about confidence and self-esteem.

>

> I think a couple of myths that were prevalent in 20th century are these two.

>

> 1. That humans have no nature or that our minds are Blank Slates. See

> Pinker's book The Blank Slate for tons of details on this. This is

> one of my favorite all time books.

>

> 2. That language and what we say and what we think has such strong control

> over our behavior and feelings. In CG, Russ has you do experiment where

> you say to yourself " I can't raise my arms " while raising your arms.

>

> These myths I think you see a lot in 20th Century writings and thinking and

> theories. You see them in popular self-help books and teachers today in

> that they preach you can discard your past and start over fresh and that

> positive affirmations will have a great positive effect on you. ( " I'm good

> enough, I'm smart enough and darn gone it, people like me " )

>

> I think Albert Ellis's obsession with language and disputing irrational

> statements went overboard. Ellis wrote whole books without using any form

> of the verb to be. He worried that statements using this verb causes us to

> overgeneralize. Like, " I am a lawyer (or teacher or engineer, etc.) " or

> " I am a husband " . He argued you are many things and just a lawyer or

> husband etc. Or " I am a loser " or " you are a loser " or " he is a

> winner " . He often argues that to be a loser means you have to lose 100% of

> the time and that we all win some and loss some. True. But I think he

> went to extremes on this.

>

> Also, Ellis sometimes write tying to use more action verbs - so instead of

> writing " She is depressed " he writes the much more awkward statement, " She

> depresses herself "

>

> On human nature, Ellis was so bad but still I think in some subtle ways it

> crept into in writings and thinking. He had a super optimistic belief that

> we nutty humans can greatly reduce our nuttiness and so in a sense override

> our nutty nature.

>

> Now, in CG, Russ says our minds will give you negative thoughts whenever we

> step into any kind of uncomfortable position or try to accomplish something

> that is new to us. He says this is our nature. This is human nature and

> the results of millions of years of evolution. So in this respect, ACT

> does not deny the existence of human nature.

>

> So, any thoughts? Is this interesting? Or is this boring the crap out

> you? Let me know. I may not get around to answering until after Monday.

>

> Cheers!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the link Stan. I checked it out and obviously not having read it

can't assess its veracity (and not even then, not being an expert) But I was

interested to read this

review:http://www.amazon.com/Great-Myths-Popular-Psychology-Misconceptions/produ\

ct-reviews/140513111X/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8 & showViewpoints=0 & sortBy=bySubmi\

ssionDateDescending#R38TAN4A6J3WYV

which raises some valid sounding criticisms. Seems like it would be worth

bearing in mind that the authors, like any humans, have their own biases which

inevitably influence the arguments they present, and that any book can't claim

to be presenting the " Truth " no matter how much it supposedly relies on evidence

based research. I certainly don't think it would be wise to see it as the " Last

Word " on Life, the Universe and Everything.

Cheers

Kate

> >

> > Hi everyone,

> >

> > I have a final Monday evening it a graduate Electrical Engineering class

> > and so need to be studying for that. But during breaks from work and

> > study, I've been reading Russ's Confidence Gap. It causes be to think

> > about a lot of things.

> >

> > Russ talks about some myths we have - about general things like Einstein

> > getting bad grades in school to our using only 10% of our brains to myths

> > about confidence and self-esteem.

> >

> > I think a couple of myths that were prevalent in 20th century are these two.

> >

> > 1. That humans have no nature or that our minds are Blank Slates. See

> > Pinker's book The Blank Slate for tons of details on this. This is

> > one of my favorite all time books.

> >

> > 2. That language and what we say and what we think has such strong control

> > over our behavior and feelings. In CG, Russ has you do experiment where

> > you say to yourself " I can't raise my arms " while raising your arms.

> >

> > These myths I think you see a lot in 20th Century writings and thinking and

> > theories. You see them in popular self-help books and teachers today in

> > that they preach you can discard your past and start over fresh and that

> > positive affirmations will have a great positive effect on you. ( " I'm good

> > enough, I'm smart enough and darn gone it, people like me " )

> >

> > I think Albert Ellis's obsession with language and disputing irrational

> > statements went overboard. Ellis wrote whole books without using any form

> > of the verb to be. He worried that statements using this verb causes us to

> > overgeneralize. Like, " I am a lawyer (or teacher or engineer, etc.) " or

> > " I am a husband " . He argued you are many things and just a lawyer or

> > husband etc. Or " I am a loser " or " you are a loser " or " he is a

> > winner " . He often argues that to be a loser means you have to lose 100% of

> > the time and that we all win some and loss some. True. But I think he

> > went to extremes on this.

> >

> > Also, Ellis sometimes write tying to use more action verbs - so instead of

> > writing " She is depressed " he writes the much more awkward statement, " She

> > depresses herself "

> >

> > On human nature, Ellis was so bad but still I think in some subtle ways it

> > crept into in writings and thinking. He had a super optimistic belief that

> > we nutty humans can greatly reduce our nuttiness and so in a sense override

> > our nutty nature.

> >

> > Now, in CG, Russ says our minds will give you negative thoughts whenever we

> > step into any kind of uncomfortable position or try to accomplish something

> > that is new to us. He says this is our nature. This is human nature and

> > the results of millions of years of evolution. So in this respect, ACT

> > does not deny the existence of human nature.

> >

> > So, any thoughts? Is this interesting? Or is this boring the crap out

> > you? Let me know. I may not get around to answering until after Monday.

> >

> > Cheers!

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

, I think the context and the details of his " defence " of Freud here is

relevant. It's not like the reviewer is claiming everything Freud did was

wonderful, far from it.

Not withstanding that, it still seems to me that he has some valid criticisms of

the book. He points out that some of their examples of " myths " are over

simplified or taken out of context. Also, it's good that they back up their

arguments with evidence, but only looking at the evidence that supports your

argument isn't very scientific IMO.

Kate

> > > >

> > > > Hi everyone,

> > > >

> > > > I have a final Monday evening it a graduate Electrical Engineering class

> > > > and so need to be studying for that. But during breaks from work and

> > > > study, I've been reading Russ's Confidence Gap. It causes be to think

> > > > about a lot of things.

> > > >

> > > > Russ talks about some myths we have - about general things like Einstein

> > > > getting bad grades in school to our using only 10% of our brains to

myths

> > > > about confidence and self-esteem.

> > > >

> > > > I think a couple of myths that were prevalent in 20th century are these

two.

> > > >

> > > > 1. That humans have no nature or that our minds are Blank Slates. See

> > > > Pinker's book The Blank Slate for tons of details on this. This

is

> > > > one of my favorite all time books.

> > > >

> > > > 2. That language and what we say and what we think has such strong

control

> > > > over our behavior and feelings. In CG, Russ has you do experiment where

> > > > you say to yourself " I can't raise my arms " while raising your arms.

> > > >

> > > > These myths I think you see a lot in 20th Century writings and thinking

and

> > > > theories. You see them in popular self-help books and teachers today in

> > > > that they preach you can discard your past and start over fresh and that

> > > > positive affirmations will have a great positive effect on you. ( " I'm

good

> > > > enough, I'm smart enough and darn gone it, people like me " )

> > > >

> > > > I think Albert Ellis's obsession with language and disputing irrational

> > > > statements went overboard. Ellis wrote whole books without using any

form

> > > > of the verb to be. He worried that statements using this verb causes us

to

> > > > overgeneralize. Like, " I am a lawyer (or teacher or engineer, etc.) " or

> > > > " I am a husband " . He argued you are many things and just a lawyer or

> > > > husband etc. Or " I am a loser " or " you are a loser " or " he is a

> > > > winner " . He often argues that to be a loser means you have to lose 100%

of

> > > > the time and that we all win some and loss some. True. But I think he

> > > > went to extremes on this.

> > > >

> > > > Also, Ellis sometimes write tying to use more action verbs - so instead

of

> > > > writing " She is depressed " he writes the much more awkward statement,

" She

> > > > depresses herself "

> > > >

> > > > On human nature, Ellis was so bad but still I think in some subtle ways

it

> > > > crept into in writings and thinking. He had a super optimistic belief

that

> > > > we nutty humans can greatly reduce our nuttiness and so in a sense

override

> > > > our nutty nature.

> > > >

> > > > Now, in CG, Russ says our minds will give you negative thoughts whenever

we

> > > > step into any kind of uncomfortable position or try to accomplish

something

> > > > that is new to us. He says this is our nature. This is human nature and

> > > > the results of millions of years of evolution. So in this respect, ACT

> > > > does not deny the existence of human nature.

> > > >

> > > > So, any thoughts? Is this interesting? Or is this boring the crap out

> > > > you? Let me know. I may not get around to answering until after Monday.

> > > >

> > > > Cheers!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Kate:

I checked this book at Amazon and reviews, I think things are more complicated

than fact VS myth.

Like some " Myth " of positive thinking, I did feel pop self-help books goes

overboard on this. I still feel same! however, 1-2 years ago, I would highly

against that, I thought that indeed myth because I did not aware of my own

thoughts going underneath. however, recently , after years of meditation and

observation, I because more aware of what going on at my head, I observe my

thoughts emotions and reaction, there are many thoughts are goes on unconscious

level. there is indeed deep connection between that. The think habit deeply

influence us.

the other is dream have metaphor feeling, this is Myth to author but to me

certainly not.

Now I not for/against anything. I don't know it is myth or not. I think as

awareness goes deep things will reveal clearly to us. Awareness is the only

light to me.

I not make any conclusion, I just want to say things are more complicate than we

think.

regards.

> > >

> > > Hi everyone,

> > >

> > > I have a final Monday evening it a graduate Electrical Engineering class

> > > and so need to be studying for that. But during breaks from work and

> > > study, I've been reading Russ's Confidence Gap. It causes be to think

> > > about a lot of things.

> > >

> > > Russ talks about some myths we have - about general things like Einstein

> > > getting bad grades in school to our using only 10% of our brains to myths

> > > about confidence and self-esteem.

> > >

> > > I think a couple of myths that were prevalent in 20th century are these

two.

> > >

> > > 1. That humans have no nature or that our minds are Blank Slates. See

> > > Pinker's book The Blank Slate for tons of details on this. This is

> > > one of my favorite all time books.

> > >

> > > 2. That language and what we say and what we think has such strong

control

> > > over our behavior and feelings. In CG, Russ has you do experiment where

> > > you say to yourself " I can't raise my arms " while raising your arms.

> > >

> > > These myths I think you see a lot in 20th Century writings and thinking

and

> > > theories. You see them in popular self-help books and teachers today in

> > > that they preach you can discard your past and start over fresh and that

> > > positive affirmations will have a great positive effect on you. ( " I'm

good

> > > enough, I'm smart enough and darn gone it, people like me " )

> > >

> > > I think Albert Ellis's obsession with language and disputing irrational

> > > statements went overboard. Ellis wrote whole books without using any form

> > > of the verb to be. He worried that statements using this verb causes us

to

> > > overgeneralize. Like, " I am a lawyer (or teacher or engineer, etc.) " or

> > > " I am a husband " . He argued you are many things and just a lawyer or

> > > husband etc. Or " I am a loser " or " you are a loser " or " he is a

> > > winner " . He often argues that to be a loser means you have to lose 100%

of

> > > the time and that we all win some and loss some. True. But I think he

> > > went to extremes on this.

> > >

> > > Also, Ellis sometimes write tying to use more action verbs - so instead of

> > > writing " She is depressed " he writes the much more awkward statement, " She

> > > depresses herself "

> > >

> > > On human nature, Ellis was so bad but still I think in some subtle ways it

> > > crept into in writings and thinking. He had a super optimistic belief

that

> > > we nutty humans can greatly reduce our nuttiness and so in a sense

override

> > > our nutty nature.

> > >

> > > Now, in CG, Russ says our minds will give you negative thoughts whenever

we

> > > step into any kind of uncomfortable position or try to accomplish

something

> > > that is new to us. He says this is our nature. This is human nature and

> > > the results of millions of years of evolution. So in this respect, ACT

> > > does not deny the existence of human nature.

> > >

> > > So, any thoughts? Is this interesting? Or is this boring the crap out

> > > you? Let me know. I may not get around to answering until after Monday.

> > >

> > > Cheers!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

What an awesome idea!

I'm gonna buy some Post-it notes and get cracking. That way, I can sort them by

sticking them on a wall when I've written a few.

Cheers,

Stan

> > >

> > > Hi everyone,

> > >

> > > I have a final Monday evening it a graduate Electrical Engineering class

> > > and so need to be studying for that. But during breaks from work and

> > > study, I've been reading Russ's Confidence Gap. It causes be to think

> > > about a lot of things.

> > >

> > > Russ talks about some myths we have - about general things like Einstein

> > > getting bad grades in school to our using only 10% of our brains to myths

> > > about confidence and self-esteem.

> > >

> > > I think a couple of myths that were prevalent in 20th century are these

two.

> > >

> > > 1. That humans have no nature or that our minds are Blank Slates. See

> > > Pinker's book The Blank Slate for tons of details on this. This is

> > > one of my favorite all time books.

> > >

> > > 2. That language and what we say and what we think has such strong control

> > > over our behavior and feelings. In CG, Russ has you do experiment where

> > > you say to yourself " I can't raise my arms " while raising your arms.

> > >

> > > These myths I think you see a lot in 20th Century writings and thinking

and

> > > theories. You see them in popular self-help books and teachers today in

> > > that they preach you can discard your past and start over fresh and that

> > > positive affirmations will have a great positive effect on you. ( " I'm good

> > > enough, I'm smart enough and darn gone it, people like me " )

> > >

> > > I think Albert Ellis's obsession with language and disputing irrational

> > > statements went overboard. Ellis wrote whole books without using any form

> > > of the verb to be. He worried that statements using this verb causes us to

> > > overgeneralize. Like, " I am a lawyer (or teacher or engineer, etc.) " or

> > > " I am a husband " . He argued you are many things and just a lawyer or

> > > husband etc. Or " I am a loser " or " you are a loser " or " he is a

> > > winner " . He often argues that to be a loser means you have to lose 100% of

> > > the time and that we all win some and loss some. True. But I think he

> > > went to extremes on this.

> > >

> > > Also, Ellis sometimes write tying to use more action verbs - so instead of

> > > writing " She is depressed " he writes the much more awkward statement, " She

> > > depresses herself "

> > >

> > > On human nature, Ellis was so bad but still I think in some subtle ways it

> > > crept into in writings and thinking. He had a super optimistic belief that

> > > we nutty humans can greatly reduce our nuttiness and so in a sense

override

> > > our nutty nature.

> > >

> > > Now, in CG, Russ says our minds will give you negative thoughts whenever

we

> > > step into any kind of uncomfortable position or try to accomplish

something

> > > that is new to us. He says this is our nature. This is human nature and

> > > the results of millions of years of evolution. So in this respect, ACT

> > > does not deny the existence of human nature.

> > >

> > > So, any thoughts? Is this interesting? Or is this boring the crap out

> > > you? Let me know. I may not get around to answering until after Monday.

> > >

> > > Cheers!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Good Morning Detlef

I hear what your saying, my thoughts have said that many times. I too agree with

you dulling the pain sounds good. For me , the last few years have brought me to

food but I know other dulling methods as well.

I agree with you that is it in every cell. I agree that it hurts to spend your

life having these awfull moments of despair , sadness and a lack of love and

belonging.

Yet, everything I have tried such as Act, counseling, antedepressents, reading,

focusing on positive activities , wanting to write a new story have made a big

differance. Am I all put together and never have bad times? No, I have plenty of

them still. Except they are fewer, they are less intense, I have more enjoyment,

I do have a differant more upbeat story.

I hope you will find peace and happiness. Keep looking , its out there. Were all

connected you know. Not many people are without pain.

I have also heard of therapies that help with those cells too.

LIn

> > >

> > > Hi everyone,

> > >

> > > I have a final Monday evening it a graduate Electrical Engineering class

> > > and so need to be studying for that. But during breaks from work and

> > > study, I've been reading Russ's Confidence Gap. It causes be to think

> > > about a lot of things.

> > >

> > > Russ talks about some myths we have - about general things like Einstein

> > > getting bad grades in school to our using only 10% of our brains to myths

> > > about confidence and self-esteem.

> > >

> > > I think a couple of myths that were prevalent in 20th century are these

two.

> > >

> > > 1. That humans have no nature or that our minds are Blank Slates. See

> > > Pinker's book The Blank Slate for tons of details on this. This is

> > > one of my favorite all time books.

> > >

> > > 2. That language and what we say and what we think has such strong control

> > > over our behavior and feelings. In CG, Russ has you do experiment where

> > > you say to yourself " I can't raise my arms " while raising your arms.

> > >

> > > These myths I think you see a lot in 20th Century writings and thinking

and

> > > theories. You see them in popular self-help books and teachers today in

> > > that they preach you can discard your past and start over fresh and that

> > > positive affirmations will have a great positive effect on you. ( " I'm good

> > > enough, I'm smart enough and darn gone it, people like me " )

> > >

> > > I think Albert Ellis's obsession with language and disputing irrational

> > > statements went overboard. Ellis wrote whole books without using any form

> > > of the verb to be. He worried that statements using this verb causes us to

> > > overgeneralize. Like, " I am a lawyer (or teacher or engineer, etc.) " or

> > > " I am a husband " . He argued you are many things and just a lawyer or

> > > husband etc. Or " I am a loser " or " you are a loser " or " he is a

> > > winner " . He often argues that to be a loser means you have to lose 100% of

> > > the time and that we all win some and loss some. True. But I think he

> > > went to extremes on this.

> > >

> > > Also, Ellis sometimes write tying to use more action verbs - so instead of

> > > writing " She is depressed " he writes the much more awkward statement, " She

> > > depresses herself "

> > >

> > > On human nature, Ellis was so bad but still I think in some subtle ways it

> > > crept into in writings and thinking. He had a super optimistic belief that

> > > we nutty humans can greatly reduce our nuttiness and so in a sense

override

> > > our nutty nature.

> > >

> > > Now, in CG, Russ says our minds will give you negative thoughts whenever

we

> > > step into any kind of uncomfortable position or try to accomplish

something

> > > that is new to us. He says this is our nature. This is human nature and

> > > the results of millions of years of evolution. So in this respect, ACT

> > > does not deny the existence of human nature.

> > >

> > > So, any thoughts? Is this interesting? Or is this boring the crap out

> > > you? Let me know. I may not get around to answering until after Monday.

> > >

> > > Cheers!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your response Helena. Just a minor correction to what you said:

" I don't believe Kate intended her remarks to be an attack on this author but

rather as a cautionary note regarding this book's claims; thus her statement

would not quality as an ad hominem argument, IMO - not that you said that about

Kate's remarks directly, , when you referred to the ad hominem argument. "

An ad hominemin argument isn't the same as a personal attack. I believe it means

the irrelevant use of an opponent's characteristics to refute that opponent's

claim. This site gives a better definition though:

" A debater commits the Ad Hominem Fallacy when he introduces irrelevant personal

premisses about his opponent. Such red herrings may successfully distract the

opponent or the audience from the topic of the debate. "

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/adhomine.html

Going back to the example I presented, if I said the following or implied it,

then I would commit the ad hominem argument:

" we shouldn't believe that CBT is an effective treatment for Social Anxiety

Disorder because the claimer is a CBT therapist. "

C.

> > > >

> > > > Hi everyone,

> > > >

> > > > I have a final Monday evening it a graduate Electrical Engineering class

> > > > and so need to be studying for that. But during breaks from work and

> > > > study, I've been reading Russ's Confidence Gap. It causes be to think

> > > > about a lot of things.

> > > >

> > > > Russ talks about some myths we have - about general things like Einstein

> > > > getting bad grades in school to our using only 10% of our brains to

myths

> > > > about confidence and self-esteem.

> > > >

> > > > I think a couple of myths that were prevalent in 20th century are these

two.

> > > >

> > > > 1. That humans have no nature or that our minds are Blank Slates. See

> > > > Pinker's book The Blank Slate for tons of details on this. This

is

> > > > one of my favorite all time books.

> > > >

> > > > 2. That language and what we say and what we think has such strong

control

> > > > over our behavior and feelings. In CG, Russ has you do experiment where

> > > > you say to yourself " I can't raise my arms " while raising your arms.

> > > >

> > > > These myths I think you see a lot in 20th Century writings and thinking

and

> > > > theories. You see them in popular self-help books and teachers today in

> > > > that they preach you can discard your past and start over fresh and that

> > > > positive affirmations will have a great positive effect on you. ( " I'm

good

> > > > enough, I'm smart enough and darn gone it, people like me " )

> > > >

> > > > I think Albert Ellis's obsession with language and disputing irrational

> > > > statements went overboard. Ellis wrote whole books without using any

form

> > > > of the verb to be. He worried that statements using this verb causes us

to

> > > > overgeneralize. Like, " I am a lawyer (or teacher or engineer, etc.) " or

> > > > " I am a husband " . He argued you are many things and just a lawyer or

> > > > husband etc. Or " I am a loser " or " you are a loser " or " he is a

> > > > winner " . He often argues that to be a loser means you have to lose 100%

of

> > > > the time and that we all win some and loss some. True. But I think he

> > > > went to extremes on this.

> > > >

> > > > Also, Ellis sometimes write tying to use more action verbs - so instead

of

> > > > writing " She is depressed " he writes the much more awkward statement,

" She

> > > > depresses herself "

> > > >

> > > > On human nature, Ellis was so bad but still I think in some subtle ways

it

> > > > crept into in writings and thinking. He had a super optimistic belief

that

> > > > we nutty humans can greatly reduce our nuttiness and so in a sense

override

> > > > our nutty nature.

> > > >

> > > > Now, in CG, Russ says our minds will give you negative thoughts whenever

we

> > > > step into any kind of uncomfortable position or try to accomplish

something

> > > > that is new to us. He says this is our nature. This is human nature and

> > > > the results of millions of years of evolution. So in this respect, ACT

> > > > does not deny the existence of human nature.

> > > >

> > > > So, any thoughts? Is this interesting? Or is this boring the crap out

> > > > you? Let me know. I may not get around to answering until after Monday.

> > > >

> > > > Cheers!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

At the moment I'm reeling at the death of a cultural hero of mine: Hitchens. He was diagnosed with esophageal cancer in June last year, and has mounted a valiant resistance campaign ever since. Following his story has been quite emotional and educational. The most perspicacious nugget of wisdom I learned from CH was that death is neither to be feared, endured, nor celebrated: it is to be experienced as much as one is able to consciously experience that 'dying of the light'.As much as I am saddened at his death, I am also gladdened for having known of him.Helena, the 'crock of shit' is your own. It's an opinion. Hitchens's wasn't opinion, it was very real fact. He lived as he wanted, and who are we to gainsay that? Death can be feared, dreaded, and heroic measures employed to avoid. But why? I think that sometimes it's a consummation devoutly to be wished for.Regards,Detlef > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > > > I have a final Monday evening it a graduate Electrical Engineering class > > > > and so need to be studying for that. But during breaks from work and > > > > study, I've been reading Russ's Confidence Gap. It causes be to think > > > > about a lot of things. > > > > > > > > Russ talks about some myths we have - about general things like Einstein > > > > getting bad grades in school to our using only 10% of our brains to myths > > > > about confidence and self-esteem. > > > > > > > > I think a couple of myths that were prevalent in 20th century are these two. > > > > > > > > 1. That humans have no nature or that our minds are Blank Slates. See > > > > Pinker's book The Blank Slate for tons of details on this. This is > > > > one of my favorite all time books. > > > > > > > > 2. That language and what we say and what we think has such strong control > > > > over our behavior and feelings. In CG, Russ has you do experiment where > > > > you say to yourself "I can't raise my arms" while raising your arms. > > > > > > > > These myths I think you see a lot in 20th Century writings and thinking and > > > > theories. You see them in popular self-help books and teachers today in > > > > that they preach you can discard your past and start over fresh and that > > > > positive affirmations will have a great positive effect on you. ("I'm good > > > > enough, I'm smart enough and darn gone it, people like me") > > > > > > > > I think Albert Ellis's obsession with language and disputing irrational > > > > statements went overboard. Ellis wrote whole books without using any form > > > > of the verb to be. He worried that statements using this verb causes us to > > > > overgeneralize. Like, "I am a lawyer (or teacher or engineer, etc.)" or > > > > "I am a husband". He argued you are many things and just a lawyer or > > > > husband etc. Or "I am a loser" or "you are a loser" or "he is a > > > > winner". He often argues that to be a loser means you have to lose 100% of > > > > the time and that we all win some and loss some. True. But I think he > > > > went to extremes on this. > > > > > > > > Also, Ellis sometimes write tying to use more action verbs - so instead of > > > > writing "She is depressed" he writes the much more awkward statement, "She > > > > depresses herself" > > > > > > > > On human nature, Ellis was so bad but still I think in some subtle ways it > > > > crept into in writings and thinking. He had a super optimistic belief that > > > > we nutty humans can greatly reduce our nuttiness and so in a sense override > > > > our nutty nature. > > > > > > > > Now, in CG, Russ says our minds will give you negative thoughts whenever we > > > > step into any kind of uncomfortable position or try to accomplish something > > > > that is new to us. He says this is our nature. This is human nature and > > > > the results of millions of years of evolution. So in this respect, ACT > > > > does not deny the existence of human nature. > > > > > > > > So, any thoughts? Is this interesting? Or is this boring the crap out > > > > you? Let me know. I may not get around to answering until after Monday. > > > > > > > > Cheers! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Helena, you've expressed what I was getting at better than I could!

, you said: " Just because someone is biased, doesn't mean her/his

argument is automatically false. " I certainly don't think I was saying that! I

was pointing out that no book should be taken as the " last word " or " the bible "

on certain issues (unless perhaps it's on something as irrefutable or black &

white as mathematics!) I can imagine a reader coming away with the impression

that these myths had all been " busted " - when it sounds like there is room for

interpretation and context - and that the authors have perhaps looked at things

in a fairly limited context. I haven't read the book and will probably take a

look at it, but the problem with any of these sort of books is that unless you

know the subject matter in depth, it's difficult to assess the solidity of the

authors' arguments. But I would still advocate keeping an open mind and looking

at alternative arguments. Happy reading!

Kate

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi everyone,

> > > > >

> > > > > I have a final Monday evening it a graduate Electrical Engineering

class

> > > > > and so need to be studying for that. But during breaks from work and

> > > > > study, I've been reading Russ's Confidence Gap. It causes be to think

> > > > > about a lot of things.

> > > > >

> > > > > Russ talks about some myths we have - about general things like

Einstein

> > > > > getting bad grades in school to our using only 10% of our brains to

myths

> > > > > about confidence and self-esteem.

> > > > >

> > > > > I think a couple of myths that were prevalent in 20th century are

these two.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. That humans have no nature or that our minds are Blank Slates. See

> > > > > Pinker's book The Blank Slate for tons of details on this. This

is

> > > > > one of my favorite all time books.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2. That language and what we say and what we think has such strong

control

> > > > > over our behavior and feelings. In CG, Russ has you do experiment

where

> > > > > you say to yourself " I can't raise my arms " while raising your arms.

> > > > >

> > > > > These myths I think you see a lot in 20th Century writings and

thinking and

> > > > > theories. You see them in popular self-help books and teachers today

in

> > > > > that they preach you can discard your past and start over fresh and

that

> > > > > positive affirmations will have a great positive effect on you. ( " I'm

good

> > > > > enough, I'm smart enough and darn gone it, people like me " )

> > > > >

> > > > > I think Albert Ellis's obsession with language and disputing

irrational

> > > > > statements went overboard. Ellis wrote whole books without using any

form

> > > > > of the verb to be. He worried that statements using this verb causes

us to

> > > > > overgeneralize. Like, " I am a lawyer (or teacher or engineer, etc.) "

or

> > > > > " I am a husband " . He argued you are many things and just a lawyer or

> > > > > husband etc. Or " I am a loser " or " you are a loser " or " he is a

> > > > > winner " . He often argues that to be a loser means you have to lose

100% of

> > > > > the time and that we all win some and loss some. True. But I think he

> > > > > went to extremes on this.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also, Ellis sometimes write tying to use more action verbs - so

instead of

> > > > > writing " She is depressed " he writes the much more awkward statement,

" She

> > > > > depresses herself "

> > > > >

> > > > > On human nature, Ellis was so bad but still I think in some subtle

ways it

> > > > > crept into in writings and thinking. He had a super optimistic belief

that

> > > > > we nutty humans can greatly reduce our nuttiness and so in a sense

override

> > > > > our nutty nature.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now, in CG, Russ says our minds will give you negative thoughts

whenever we

> > > > > step into any kind of uncomfortable position or try to accomplish

something

> > > > > that is new to us. He says this is our nature. This is human nature

and

> > > > > the results of millions of years of evolution. So in this respect, ACT

> > > > > does not deny the existence of human nature.

> > > > >

> > > > > So, any thoughts? Is this interesting? Or is this boring the crap out

> > > > > you? Let me know. I may not get around to answering until after

Monday.

> > > > >

> > > > > Cheers!

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Detlef,

Looked at another way, your wife is choosing to express her connection and

caring values by looking after you. We all need someone to help us through our

darker days.

Cheers,

Stan

> > > >

> > > > Hi everyone,

> > > >

> > > > I have a final Monday evening it a graduate Electrical Engineering class

> > > > and so need to be studying for that. But during breaks from work and

> > > > study, I've been reading Russ's Confidence Gap. It causes be to think

> > > > about a lot of things.

> > > >

> > > > Russ talks about some myths we have - about general things like Einstein

> > > > getting bad grades in school to our using only 10% of our brains to

myths

> > > > about confidence and self-esteem.

> > > >

> > > > I think a couple of myths that were prevalent in 20th century are these

two.

> > > >

> > > > 1. That humans have no nature or that our minds are Blank Slates. See

> > > > Pinker's book The Blank Slate for tons of details on this. This

is

> > > > one of my favorite all time books.

> > > >

> > > > 2. That language and what we say and what we think has such strong

control

> > > > over our behavior and feelings. In CG, Russ has you do experiment where

> > > > you say to yourself " I can't raise my arms " while raising your arms.

> > > >

> > > > These myths I think you see a lot in 20th Century writings and thinking

and

> > > > theories. You see them in popular self-help books and teachers today in

> > > > that they preach you can discard your past and start over fresh and that

> > > > positive affirmations will have a great positive effect on you. ( " I'm

good

> > > > enough, I'm smart enough and darn gone it, people like me " )

> > > >

> > > > I think Albert Ellis's obsession with language and disputing irrational

> > > > statements went overboard. Ellis wrote whole books without using any

form

> > > > of the verb to be. He worried that statements using this verb causes us

to

> > > > overgeneralize. Like, " I am a lawyer (or teacher or engineer, etc.) " or

> > > > " I am a husband " . He argued you are many things and just a lawyer or

> > > > husband etc. Or " I am a loser " or " you are a loser " or " he is a

> > > > winner " . He often argues that to be a loser means you have to lose 100%

of

> > > > the time and that we all win some and loss some. True. But I think he

> > > > went to extremes on this.

> > > >

> > > > Also, Ellis sometimes write tying to use more action verbs - so instead

of

> > > > writing " She is depressed " he writes the much more awkward statement,

" She

> > > > depresses herself "

> > > >

> > > > On human nature, Ellis was so bad but still I think in some subtle ways

it

> > > > crept into in writings and thinking. He had a super optimistic belief

that

> > > > we nutty humans can greatly reduce our nuttiness and so in a sense

override

> > > > our nutty nature.

> > > >

> > > > Now, in CG, Russ says our minds will give you negative thoughts whenever

we

> > > > step into any kind of uncomfortable position or try to accomplish

something

> > > > that is new to us. He says this is our nature. This is human nature and

> > > > the results of millions of years of evolution. So in this respect, ACT

> > > > does not deny the existence of human nature.

> > > >

> > > > So, any thoughts? Is this interesting? Or is this boring the crap out

> > > > you? Let me know. I may not get around to answering until after Monday.

> > > >

> > > > Cheers!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>