Re: Byron and ACT

[Guest guest]

Yes, you could be onto something..I think having done work with ACT first, makes

other approaches much more effective. Seems to me these kinds of approaches can

be useful IF they're held lightly, from a defused place, and with values in

mind. Big ifs! Otherwise, it all just becomes more of the same old self as

content spinning in the mind-- mind still trying to be right, trying to control

things, trying to rationalize away pain and other experiences. Without defusion

and self as context, and without looking at the fuller picture, such as person

in context, their history, their current barriers and where they're out now, how

can we even know what is so?

I really liked what Patty Bach and others ( G.) said a while back on the

professional list about KB's approach and it's usefulness (or not) as it applies

to the contextual functional flexibility model we're using here with ACT. There

are other discussions elsewhere too, but I can't find them now. Here's the one I

did find:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/message/14559

I guess I just don't find this stuff necessary. And really, it's O.K. if others

dig her work. Go for it! If it works for you in your life, go for it!

I personally just don't want or need to turn anything around-- that would be

like talking myself out of my experience, which I've done for years. I look now

to make room for it, honor it, give it (and me) lots of breathing space, learn

from it. It's all grist for the mill. It's really about expansion of all of me,

not trying to change anymore.

The whole " turn it around " kind of thing without defusion for example can easily

become a bit like telling a gay person who is conflicted: " Pray away the gay " .

Or, conversely: " You're absolutely supposed to be gay " . It's like force feeding

acceptance. Or something. And that's not acceptance any more. You're not present

anymore. More mindy noise, trying to rationalize, be right, latch onto

conclusions about other-wise complex experiences. Disallows for moment to

moment truth to emerge when there is all this commentary going on in the head,

trying too convince, argue for something, feel good about something, running

from what's so. Philosophizing about what is real and so forth...oh, my..very

objectifying.

Did that for years and it was all so much trying to

feel BETTER versus

learning to better FEEL.

I guess I just don't get the goal of her work. Maybe that's where I'm lost. But

hey, we can't all find value in everything now, can we?

Go for what works, guys! Choose wisely, is all. And be honest about what is

working, I'd say.

My two cents.

Peace,

Theresa

>

> I was trying not to respond but i think I have something to offer. My

knowledge of Byron came from these postings. I think it was

that suggested her to me It helped me defuse from my own thoughts, move toward

my values ,etc. However, I did read an ACT book first. Maybe becasue I had read

ACT first, I got Byron . I am sure what we get out of a book is differant

for everyone just like our thoughts.

> There is many free resources for Byron other then Amazon.

http://www.byronkatie.com. Blog, newsletters and downloads that brings up some

examples that has been written down here.

>

> I have invited several friends to listen, they too believe she has something.

Does she have all the answers -No- in fact she invites you to find your own

answers- you do the work.

> Thats just my opinion on Byron . I dont want to make this a Byron

site either as ACT has much to offer. If you google ACT, there are many free

resources also. Excerpts from book, entire chapters, downloads, I often see new

informational links and read others understanding of how to use ACT tools. Al

have been a help in my own understanding.

> Each persons' problems, suggestions and feedback have a lot to offer. I am so

gratefull to be a small part of it.

> I am off to kripala to attend Byron 's workshop this weekend. if there

was a workshop on ACT in my area (CT - How about it?) , I would definetly go.

> Lin

>

[Guest guest]

" I look now to make room for it, honor it, give it (and me) lots of breathing

space, learn from it. It's all grist for the mill. It's really about expansion

of all of me, not trying to change anymore. "

Here is a quick example where I used BK's method today when I was in the grips

of anxiety, because of trying to control it, and resist it....you tell me if you

think it helps me to " honor " my experience or " talks myself out of my

experience "

" I shouldn't be having this anxiety, is this true? " - Well, I can't absolutely

know that, so NO

" How do I feel when I believe I shouldn't be having this anxiety, yet I am " - I

resist it

" Who would I be without this thought that I shouldn't be having this anxiety " -

Accepting, ok with it

Turn around

" I should be having this anxiety " - well yes, because I am (reality)

(that was all that I needed...it vanished for the rest of the day)

> >

> > I was trying not to respond but i think I have something to offer. My

knowledge of Byron came from these postings. I think it was

that suggested her to me It helped me defuse from my own thoughts, move toward

my values ,etc. However, I did read an ACT book first. Maybe becasue I had read

ACT first, I got Byron . I am sure what we get out of a book is differant

for everyone just like our thoughts.

> > There is many free resources for Byron other then Amazon.

http://www.byronkatie.com. Blog, newsletters and downloads that brings up some

examples that has been written down here.

> >

> > I have invited several friends to listen, they too believe she has

something. Does she have all the answers -No- in fact she invites you to find

your own answers- you do the work.

> > Thats just my opinion on Byron . I dont want to make this a Byron

site either as ACT has much to offer. If you google ACT, there are many free

resources also. Excerpts from book, entire chapters, downloads, I often see new

informational links and read others understanding of how to use ACT tools. Al

have been a help in my own understanding.

> > Each persons' problems, suggestions and feedback have a lot to offer. I am

so gratefull to be a small part of it.

> > I am off to kripala to attend Byron 's workshop this weekend. if there

was a workshop on ACT in my area (CT - How about it?) , I would definetly go.

> > Lin

> >

>

[Guest guest]

vcferrara,

I like your post.

While engaging with the contents of our thoughts instead of simply seeing them

as nonsense that our brain throws up is risky, looking at them for a few moments

and turning them into something different seems to be a useful way of defusing

from them.

Using Byron's technique to turn " I shouldn't be having this anxiety " into

" I should be having this anxiety " seems like a worthwhile exercise, as long as

we don't get too caught up in what our thoughts are telling us.

The Work teaches us that there is more than one way to interpret what our

thoughts are trying to tell us about ourselves and who we are. Seeing that the

opposite of what we believe could be equally true is a good and valuable

insight.

I don't believe everything Byron teaches but, used wisely, The Work could

be a good defusion technique, as long we don't end up drowning in the whirlpool

of their contents.

Cheers,

Stan

> > >

> > > I was trying not to respond but i think I have something to offer. My

knowledge of Byron came from these postings. I think it was

that suggested her to me It helped me defuse from my own thoughts, move toward

my values ,etc. However, I did read an ACT book first. Maybe becasue I had read

ACT first, I got Byron . I am sure what we get out of a book is differant

for everyone just like our thoughts.

> > > There is many free resources for Byron other then Amazon.

http://www.byronkatie.com. Blog, newsletters and downloads that brings up some

examples that has been written down here.

> > >

> > > I have invited several friends to listen, they too believe she has

something. Does she have all the answers -No- in fact she invites you to find

your own answers- you do the work.

> > > Thats just my opinion on Byron . I dont want to make this a Byron

site either as ACT has much to offer. If you google ACT, there are many

free resources also. Excerpts from book, entire chapters, downloads, I often see

new informational links and read others understanding of how to use ACT tools.

Al have been a help in my own understanding.

> > > Each persons' problems, suggestions and feedback have a lot to offer. I am

so gratefull to be a small part of it.

> > > I am off to kripala to attend Byron 's workshop this weekend. if

there was a workshop on ACT in my area (CT - How about it?) , I would definetly

go.

> > > Lin

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I liked that.D

 

" I look now to make room for it, honor it, give it (and me) lots of breathing space, learn from it. It's all grist for the mill. It's really about expansion of all of me, not trying to change anymore. "

Here is a quick example where I used BK's method today when I was in the grips of anxiety, because of trying to control it, and resist it....you tell me if you think it helps me to " honor " my experience or " talks myself out of my experience "

" I shouldn't be having this anxiety, is this true? " - Well, I can't absolutely know that, so NO

" How do I feel when I believe I shouldn't be having this anxiety, yet I am " - I resist it

" Who would I be without this thought that I shouldn't be having this anxiety " - Accepting, ok with it

Turn around

" I should be having this anxiety " - well yes, because I am (reality)

(that was all that I needed...it vanished for the rest of the day)

> >

> > I was trying not to respond but i think I have something to offer. My knowledge of Byron came from these postings. I think it was that suggested her to me It helped me defuse from my own thoughts, move toward my values ,etc. However, I did read an ACT book first. Maybe becasue I had read ACT first, I got Byron . I am sure what we get out of a book is differant for everyone just like our thoughts.

> > There is many free resources for Byron other then Amazon. http://www.byronkatie.com. Blog, newsletters and downloads that brings up some examples that has been written down here.

> >

> > I have invited several friends to listen, they too believe she has something. Does she have all the answers -No- in fact she invites you to find your own answers- you do the work.

> > Thats just my opinion on Byron . I dont want to make this a Byron site either as ACT has much to offer. If you google ACT, there are many free resources also. Excerpts from book, entire chapters, downloads, I often see new informational links and read others understanding of how to use ACT tools. Al have been a help in my own understanding.

> > Each persons' problems, suggestions and feedback have a lot to offer. I am so gratefull to be a small part of it.

> > I am off to kripala to attend Byron 's workshop this weekend. if there was a workshop on ACT in my area (CT - How about it?) , I would definetly go.

> > Lin

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I agree that it is a method of diffusion

Byron 's method essentially uses a path to Buddha's Right Understanding by

removing the false beliefs that keep us from non-dual experiences. Non-dual

meaning, the experience, and then mental gap between it (via belief) that is

opposing it. Right Thought aligns with reality. Doesn't mean you agree or cannot

change the experience, but by questioning the beliefs that are causing you to

mentally resist, it frees you to do it without suffering on top of it..

So ex: when you are believing a thought that says you/someone else " should have "

done something different than xxx, or " shouldn't have " done xxx...it's denying

reality and causing you to suffer

" Pam shouldn't have cheated on me "

Is that true? - Yes (many times yes is the honest answer there or you wouldn't

be questioning it)

Can you absolutely know that's true? - No

How do you feel when you believe the thought that Pam shouldn't have cheated on

me, yet she did? - Angry, upset, frustrated, untrusting, etc

Who would you be without that thought that Pam shouldn't have cheated on me? -

Much more peaceful, accepting, understanding, etc

Turn around:

" Pam should have cheated on me " - Why is this true or truer than the original

statement? (Helps align you with the reality of the situation)

1) She wasn't happy with our relationship (hypothetical example)

2) Because that's what she wanted in the moment (stings but true)

3) Because she did (matter of fact)

This doesn't mean you condone Pam cheating on you, or it's acceptable for being

in a committed relationship, it just gets you to mentally stop opposing the

reality of it, which in turn, frees your mind..simple cause and effect

For the anxiety about anxiety sufferers:

Doesn't it seem so matter of fact that we " shouldn't " be experiencing anxiety?

It's simply not true, when you are experiencing it...at that moment, it doesn't

matter why, you just are, and mentally opposing it will just cause one to

continually try to control it, resist it, fight it

So when you find yourself fighting your thoughts or emotions, question the

belief that you shouldn't* be experiencing it

Might lead to another belief that says " If I don't control it, xxx will happen "

- is that true?

There are so many judgments that hold anxiety/fear in place, but it's like a

house of cards...start taking out the base and it easily crumbles on it's own

Much easier to be mindful of it when you aren't mentally resisting it

> > > >

> > > > I was trying not to respond but i think I have something to offer. My

knowledge of Byron came from these postings. I think it was

that suggested her to me It helped me defuse from my own thoughts, move toward

my values ,etc. However, I did read an ACT book first. Maybe becasue I had read

ACT first, I got Byron . I am sure what we get out of a book is differant

for everyone just like our thoughts.

> > > > There is many free resources for Byron other then Amazon.

http://www.byronkatie.com. Blog, newsletters and downloads that brings up some

examples that has been written down here.

> > > >

> > > > I have invited several friends to listen, they too believe she has

something. Does she have all the answers -No- in fact she invites you to find

your own answers- you do the work.

> > > > Thats just my opinion on Byron . I dont want to make this a Byron

site either as ACT has much to offer. If you google ACT, there are many

free resources also. Excerpts from book, entire chapters, downloads, I often see

new informational links and read others understanding of how to use ACT tools.

Al have been a help in my own understanding.

> > > > Each persons' problems, suggestions and feedback have a lot to offer. I

am so gratefull to be a small part of it.

> > > > I am off to kripala to attend Byron 's workshop this weekend. if

there was a workshop on ACT in my area (CT - How about it?) , I would definetly

go.

> > > > Lin

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for giving a clear example. I can see where this kind of thought process

that concludes: " I'm just where I need to be " would be quite helpful at times.

Sort of normalizing. I can see where this verbalization is like a way to give

your being permission to drop the rope and just simply have what you're having.

Almost like a hug from you to you. I had problems with this sort of thing in my

therapy years ago because I began to lean on this too much instead of just

sitting quietly with whatever was going on, including the thought " I can't have

this " . But that's just me. I tend to look for anything to run from my experience

and in the long run feel lost as a result.

> > >

> > > I was trying not to respond but i think I have something to offer. My

knowledge of Byron came from these postings. I think it was

that suggested her to me It helped me defuse from my own thoughts, move toward

my values ,etc. However, I did read an ACT book first. Maybe becasue I had read

ACT first, I got Byron . I am sure what we get out of a book is differant

for everyone just like our thoughts.

> > > There is many free resources for Byron other then Amazon.

http://www.byronkatie.com. Blog, newsletters and downloads that brings up some

examples that has been written down here.

> > >

> > > I have invited several friends to listen, they too believe she has

something. Does she have all the answers -No- in fact she invites you to find

your own answers- you do the work.

> > > Thats just my opinion on Byron . I dont want to make this a Byron

site either as ACT has much to offer. If you google ACT, there are many

free resources also. Excerpts from book, entire chapters, downloads, I often see

new informational links and read others understanding of how to use ACT tools.

Al have been a help in my own understanding.

> > > Each persons' problems, suggestions and feedback have a lot to offer. I am

so gratefull to be a small part of it.

> > > I am off to kripala to attend Byron 's workshop this weekend. if

there was a workshop on ACT in my area (CT - How about it?) , I would definetly

go.

> > > Lin

> > >

> >

>