Re: Moving Away from my Syndromal Label

October 14, 2011

Sometimes it does feel helpful to have a name for how I feel. That there's a name for it and other people feel and have felt the same way. But I agree it's not helpful to define one's self by a disorder. Maybe the syndrome is just a part of who I am.BruceHi everyone! My name is and I was a member here before, but decided to return. I have been diagnosed with Social Anxiety Disorder in the past. I used to focus my energy on trying to overcome my Social Anxiety Disorder but now I strongly believe that I had the wrong aim. Instead, I've decided to focus my aim to improving my social life and career. Some might see those two aims as being two sides of the same coin. I'm convinced that the latter is the better option. , Forsyth and Eifert have persuaded me that it isn't useful for clients to label themselves with these syndromal labels - in fact, it could be harmful. A person would soon identify herself with it instead of seeing it as a part of herself: the conceptualized self. She would think of herself as a "social anxious person" for instance, or "a person with OCD." Thus, she would believe that a personal transformation is required. You can imagine the pressure that a client like that would go through.Also, with words like "anxiety disorder" or "mood disorder" it obviously encourages a view that our emotions are "disordered." If we fuse with those thoughts, it can encourage more experiential avoidance and we know how bad experiential avoidance is!Indeed, when I look back I realized I had a problem not when I was told I had Social Phobia, but when I learned my severely limited social life hampered my career: it prevented me from having one. So I'm directing my energy to making new friends and finding a career to commit to. Of course, this will become more clear once I enter the Values section of GOYMIYL. C. from NYC

October 14, 2011

<<<...That there's a name for it and other people feel and have felt the same way.>>>I agree Bruce:-)..and your right, as long as u hold that label lightly too.wasalaam:-)-K Designs.To: ACT_for_the_Public From: onebnz@...Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 12:54:21 -0700Subject: Re: Moving Away from my Syndromal Label

Sometimes it does feel helpful to have a name for how I feel. That there's a name for it and other people feel and have felt the same way. But I agree it's not helpful to define one's self by a disorder. Maybe the syndrome is just a part of who I am.BruceHi everyone! My name is and I was a member here before, but decided to return. I have been diagnosed with Social Anxiety Disorder in the past. I used to focus my energy on trying to overcome my Social Anxiety Disorder but now I strongly believe that I had the wrong aim. Instead, I've decided to focus my aim to improving my social life and career. Some might see those two aims as being two sides of the same coin. I'm convinced that the latter is the better option. , Forsyth and Eifert have persuaded me that it isn't useful for clients to label themselves with these syndromal labels - in fact, it could be harmful. A person would soon identify herself with it instead of seeing it as a part of herself: the conceptualized self. She would think of herself as a "social anxious person" for instance, or "a person with OCD." Thus, she would believe that a personal transformation is required. You can imagine the pressure that a client like that would go through.Also, with words like "anxiety disorder" or "mood disorder" it obviously encourages a view that our emotions are "disordered." If we fuse with those thoughts, it can encourage more experiential avoidance and we know how bad experiential avoidance is!Indeed, when I look back I realized I had a problem not when I was told I had Social Phobia, but when I learned my severely limited social life hampered my career: it prevented me from having one. So I'm directing my energy to making new friends and finding a career to commit to. Of course, this will become more clear once I enter the Values section of GOYMIYL. C. from NYC

October 14, 2011

To be fair, the system of reimbursement, litigation, education, and similar concerns almost demands a diagnosis system to facilitate social cooperation within the medical model. We would have to move away from the model to ditch the diagnoses. This can not be pinned on the poor clinicians trying to work within the larger system!

Having said that, I agree that we can see the person and not the diagnosis, and that other ways of doing things are quite conceivable.D

> >> Interesting, was just thinking about this as I was pondering whether the hoarding behavior is OCD, addiction, both, or neither-- or if it even matters what I call it. I'm really just sitting with this, noticing what comes up. Not looking to vote on it, conclude anything really. Even the term 'hoard' is quite loaded.

>> There is an element of humility that's missing from the whole diagnosis game IMO..it's very political and shouldn't be underestimated.>> I think the strong pull to diagnose and find the correct label in our culture is a bit of a misguided distraction and should come with a big warning label. I used to have a strong opinion that labels were necessary and then moved over to the notion that they were unhelpful. My feeling nowadays is more neutral, informed caution, pragmatic after years with ACT and being on both sides as helper and helpee. If it works (living more aligned with your values and goals?) to identify as such then go for it. Just be mindful as to how you're labeling of your problem may or may not be part of the problem, you may be over-pathologizing or objectifying yourself or the process by leaning too heavily on the labels while moving away from accurately addressing here and now process, function, which are fluid and change over time given the context.

>> To the extent we don't stay present with what's going on here and now and instead lean on the diagnosis and textbook protocol, we're rendered less effective in helping ourselves, others.>

> So maybe like so many other things, just hold it all lightly, use the words as a broad guide maybe and stay curious and open and flexible with respect to what's working/what isn't, here, now with respect to moving forward with values and goals.

>> Terry>> >>>> Hi everyone! My name is and I was a member here before, but decided to return.

>>>> I have been diagnosed with Social Anxiety Disorder in the past. I used to focus my energy on trying to overcome my Social Anxiety Disorder but now I strongly believe that I had the wrong aim. Instead, I've decided to focus my aim to improving my social life and career. Some might see those two aims as being two sides of the same coin. I'm convinced that the latter is the better option.

>>>> , Forsyth and Eifert have persuaded me that it isn't useful for clients to label themselves with these syndromal labels - in fact, it could be harmful. A person would soon identify herself with it instead of seeing it as a part of herself: the conceptualized self. She would think of herself as a " social anxious person " for instance, or " a person with OCD. " Thus, she would believe that a personal transformation is required. You can imagine the pressure that a client like that would go through.

>>>> Also, with words like " anxiety disorder " or " mood disorder " it obviously encourages a view that our emotions are " disordered. " If we fuse with those thoughts, it can encourage more experiential avoidance and we know how bad experiential avoidance is!

>>>> Indeed, when I look back I realized I had a problem not when I was told I had Social Phobia, but when I learned my severely limited social life hampered my career: it prevented me from having one. So I'm directing my energy to making new friends and finding a career to commit to. Of course, this will become more clear once I enter the Values section of GOYMIYL.

>>>> C. from NYC>>>> -- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.com

DarrellGKing@...

October 14, 2011

Is there any other conclusion possible, Bruce?Of course, " who I am " changes in every moment, so today's syndrome is often tomorrow's memory....D

> >> Sometimes it does feel helpful to have a name for how I feel. That there's a name for it and other people feel and have felt the same way. But I agree it's not helpful to define one's self by a disorder. Maybe the syndrome is just a part of who I am.

>> Bruce-- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@...

October 14, 2011

I wish today's syndrome would be tomorrow's memory. It hasn't happened often for me. Tomorrow is too often just like today.BruceIs there any other conclusion possible, Bruce?Of course, "who I am" changes in every moment, so today's syndrome is often tomorrow's memory....D> >> Sometimes it does feel helpful to have a name for how I feel. That there's a name for it and other people feel and have felt the same way. But I agree it's not helpful to define one's self by a disorder. Maybe the syndrome is just a part of who I am.>> Bruce-- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@...

October 15, 2011

About diagnostic labels: We can think the label defines us, we can think it's part of who we are, we can think it doesn't describe us at all, we can think it's something useful to help us get professional treatment, we can think it's something awful that will stalk us all our lives, we can think it's something comforting that means we are not alone in this experience, we can think it's something benign or neutral, or we can think it's something positive. Whatever we think, the thoughts are just thoughts. We can defuse from the thoughts that are not useful, embrace the ones that are, and accept accept accept ourselves as we are moment by moment. The label has no power on its own.

Helena (former major depressive who used to lean on that label to explain and wallow in her misery)

> > > Hi everyone! My name is and I was a member here before, but > > decided to return.> >> > I have been diagnosed with Social Anxiety Disorder in the past. I > > used to focus my energy on trying to overcome my Social Anxiety > > Disorder but now I strongly believe that I had the wrong aim. > > Instead, I've decided to focus my aim to improving my social life > > and career. Some might see those two aims as being two sides of the > > same coin. I'm convinced that the latter is the better option.> >> > , Forsyth and Eifert have persuaded me that it isn't useful for > > clients to label themselves with these syndromal labels - in fact, > > it could be harmful. A person would soon identify herself with it > > instead of seeing it as a part of herself: the conceptualized self. > > She would think of herself as a "social anxious person" for > > instance, or "a person with OCD." Thus, she would believe that a > > personal transformation is required. You can imagine the pressure > > that a client like that would go through.> >> > Also, with words like "anxiety disorder" or "mood disorder" it > > obviously encourages a view that our emotions are "disordered." If > > we fuse with those thoughts, it can encourage more experiential > > avoidance and we know how bad experiential avoidance is!> >> > Indeed, when I look back I realized I had a problem not when I was > > told I had Social Phobia, but when I learned my severely limited > > social life hampered my career: it prevented me from having one. So > > I'm directing my energy to making new friends and finding a career > > to commit to. Of course, this will become more clear once I enter > > the Values section of GOYMIYL.> >> > C. from NYC

October 15, 2011

Bruce, could you could let go of the expectation that tomorrow will be better than today? Or the fear that it will be the same or worse? Just roll with whatever is? When those recurrent, persistent thoughts hijack your mind - use whatever defusion exercise works best for you, or try a new one. So much easier said then done, I know. Like telling an addicted smoker how simple it is to quit: Just don't bring another cigarette to your mouth - right!

Nothing expected, nothing precluded - that little phrase has been very useful to me in my life. I expect nothing but will make room for whatever is.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 1:12:13 AMSubject: Re: Moving Away from my Syndromal Label

I wish today's syndrome would be tomorrow's memory. It hasn't happened often for me. Tomorrow is too often just like today.

Bruce

Is there any other conclusion possible, Bruce?Of course, "who I am" changes in every moment, so today's syndrome is often tomorrow's memory....D> >> Sometimes it does feel helpful to have a name for how I feel. That there's a name for it and other people feel and have felt the same way. But I agree it's not helpful to define one's self by a disorder. Maybe the syndrome is just a part of who I am.>> Bruce-- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@...

October 15, 2011

Thank you for this reminder, Helena.D> >> Bruce, could you could let go of the expectation that tomorrow will be better than today? Or the fear that it will be the same or worse? Just roll with whatever is? When those recurrent, persistent thoughts hijack your mind - use whatever defusion exercise works best for you, or try a new one. So much easier said then done, I know. Like telling an addicted smoker how simple it is to quit: Just don't bring another cigarette to your mouth - right!

>> >> Nothing expected, nothing precluded - that little phrase has been very useful to me in my life. I expect nothing but will make room for whatever is.>> >> Helena

>> >> ________________________________>> > To: " ACT for the Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >

> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 1:12:13 AM> Subject: Re: Moving Away from my Syndromal Label>> >> I wish today's syndrome would be tomorrow's memory. It hasn't happened often for me. Tomorrow is too often just like today.

>> Bruce>> >> Is there any other conclusion possible, Bruce?>> Of course, " who I am " changes in every moment, so today's syndrome is often tomorrow's memory....

>> D>> >> >>>> Sometimes it does feel helpful to have a name for how I feel. That there's a name for it and other people feel and have felt the same way. But I agree it's not helpful to define one's self by a disorder. Maybe the syndrome is just a part of who I am.

>>>> Bruce>>> -- > Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-T> Rochester, NY, US> http://darrellking.com> DarrellGKing@...

>>> -- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.com

DarrellGKing@...

October 15, 2011

Sorry, Theresa–it was only a figure of speech, and not meant personally. As a clinician myself, I have been involved in such discussions before with colleagues and we have noted amongst ourselves the recurring tendency to refer to cases by diagnostic label. This was running through my mind when I read your post, especially the part about our cultural tendencies. Please forgive my clumsy wording of my thoughts. I am too old to invent disagreement–takes too much energy....

D> >

> ?? What part of my comment here reads not fair? What part says we should pin such complex issues on clinicians? Sheez. Feels like a fake disagreement here, what's that called..straw man? Sometimes I wonder if folks here just like to invent disagreement when there is none.

>> >> >>>> >> Hi everyone! My name is and I was a member here before, but>> decided to return.>> >>>> >> I have been diagnosed with Social Anxiety Disorder in the past. I used to

>> focus my energy on trying to overcome my Social Anxiety Disorder but now I>> strongly believe that I had the wrong aim. Instead, I've decided to focus my>> aim to improving my social life and career. Some might see those two aims as

>> being two sides of the same coin. I'm convinced that the latter is the>> better option.>> >>>> >> , Forsyth and Eifert have persuaded me that it isn't useful for

>> clients to label themselves with these syndromal labels - in fact, it could>> be harmful. A person would soon identify herself with it instead of seeing>> it as a part of herself: the conceptualized self. She would think of herself

>> as a " social anxious person " for instance, or " a person with OCD. " Thus, she>> would believe that a personal transformation is required. You can imagine>> the pressure that a client like that would go through.

>> >>>> >> Also, with words like " anxiety disorder " or " mood disorder " it obviously>> encourages a view that our emotions are " disordered. " If we fuse with those

>> thoughts, it can encourage more experiential avoidance and we know how bad>> experiential avoidance is!>> >>>> >> Indeed, when I look back I realized I had a problem not when I was told I

>> had Social Phobia, but when I learned my severely limited social life>> hampered my career: it prevented me from having one. So I'm directing my>> energy to making new friends and finding a career to commit to. Of course,

>> this will become more clear once I enter the Values section of GOYMIYL.>> >>>> >> C. from NYC>> >>>> >>> >>>>> --

>> Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-T>> Rochester, NY, US>> http://darrellking.com>> DarrellGKing@...>>>> -- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@...

October 15, 2011

Actually, that thought occurred to me as the logical extreme opposed to over-identifying with them. I often feel resistance to diagnoses during my workday as an almost habitual response to the dehumanizing trend they can represent. I am tempted to argue for ditching them at times, and even more so as I was reading yesterday about the ACT model of pathology (or non-pathology!), which I admit to finding far more sensible and human, as well as more consistent with my own experience.

Language is so much fun.... Obviously my message was sent from a different lace than it was received, and I apologize again for my insensitivity. I meant no harm, and I was more interested in discussion than dispute! In fact, I agreed with your take on the subject as you posted it and was simply carrying the ball further in that direction, although admittedly without thinking through all the consequences of my post. I hope we can undo the damage between us!

D> >

> And where here did I suggest that we should just " ditch " diagnoses?> >> > >>>> > >> Hi everyone! My name is and I was a member here before, but>> > decided to return.>> > >>

>> > >> I have been diagnosed with Social Anxiety Disorder in the past. I used to>> > focus my energy on trying to overcome my Social Anxiety Disorder but now I>> > strongly believe that I had the wrong aim. Instead, I've decided to focus my

>> > aim to improving my social life and career. Some might see those two aims as>> > being two sides of the same coin. I'm convinced that the latter is the>> > better option.>> > >>

>> > >> , Forsyth and Eifert have persuaded me that it isn't useful for>> > clients to label themselves with these syndromal labels - in fact, it could>> > be harmful. A person would soon identify herself with it instead of seeing

>> > it as a part of herself: the conceptualized self. She would think of herself>> > as a " social anxious person " for instance, or " a person with OCD. " Thus, she>> > would believe that a personal transformation is required. You can imagine

>> > the pressure that a client like that would go through.>> > >>>> > >> Also, with words like " anxiety disorder " or " mood disorder " it obviously>> > encourages a view that our emotions are " disordered. " If we fuse with those

>> > thoughts, it can encourage more experiential avoidance and we know how bad>> > experiential avoidance is!>> > >>>> > >> Indeed, when I look back I realized I had a problem not when I was told I

>> > had Social Phobia, but when I learned my severely limited social life>> > hampered my career: it prevented me from having one. So I'm directing my>> > energy to making new friends and finding a career to commit to. Of course,

>> > this will become more clear once I enter the Values section of GOYMIYL.>> > >>>> > >> C. from NYC>> > >>>> > >>> > >

>> >>> > -->> > Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-T>> > Rochester, NY, US>> > http://darrellking.com>>>> -- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@...

October 15, 2011

Thank you, Helena. That is a helpful thought today. I will try rolling with whatever is. It is hard. It's really hard. But I don't have a better alternative. I can't make today better. I've been doing a lot of praying and hoping that I won't wake up with anxiety and it hasn't helped, at least not much. So I've just got to live with it, I guess. I've done a lot of anticipating in my life and it's hard habit to break. Bruce, could you could let go of the expectation that tomorrow will be better than today? Or the fear that it will be the same or worse? Just roll with whatever is? When those recurrent, persistent thoughts hijack your mind - use whatever defusion exercise works best for you, or try a new one. So much easier said then done, I know. Like telling an addicted smoker how simple it is to quit: Just don't bring another cigarette to your mouth - right! Nothing expected, nothing precluded - that little phrase has been very useful to me in my life. I expect nothing but will make room for whatever is. Helena To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 1:12:13 AMSubject: Re: Moving Away from my Syndromal Label I wish today's syndrome would be tomorrow's memory. It hasn't happened often for me. Tomorrow is too often just like today.BruceIs there any other conclusion possible, Bruce?Of course, "who I am" changes in every moment, so today's syndrome is often tomorrow's memory....D> >> Sometimes it does feel helpful to have a name for how I feel. That there's a name for it and other people feel and have felt the same way. But I agree it's not helpful to define one's self by a disorder. Maybe the syndrome is just a part of who I am.>> Bruce-- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@...

October 16, 2011

Thanks, Lou. I am very familiar with interpersonal skills practice and with easy manner.... It is awesome to me to see someone practicing them proactively and independently like that–good for you! And I agree about time and persistence, although I usually phrase it as consistency over time. I find the human mind fascinating, and especially so when I see evidence of two different minds modeling similar experiences in pursuit of similar knowledge!

D> >> > I really like this response Darrell,>

> " I hope we can undo the damage between us! " > > That line illustrates a part of what we are learning here. How to experience and show others that judgement doesn't have to be the dominant force. Regardless of how painful (intended or not) an experience is, we can learn forgiveness, practice compassion and behave in a different way.

> > I had an experience on this list where someone said to me, " I didn't think you were stupid...but I could be wrong... " That comment cut pretty deeply because I value this person. I thought that person was the CAUSE of my crying, of course that was not true. Luckily, at the time I was studying interpersonal relationships and as a part of that practice I was able to see beyond the letters that made up the words and see the person behind them. A wonderful human being. I made contact using an easy manner, (more lessons) and we were able to maintain a connection. That is good value.

> > Takes time and persistence to build on those skills I guess. And being willing...(as far as possible in the moment)> > Lou> > >>

> To: " ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >> Sent: Sunday, 16 October 2011 2:40 AM

> Subject: Re: Moving Away from my Syndromal Label>> > Actually, that thought occurred to me as the logical extreme opposed to over-identifying with them. I often feel resistance to diagnoses during my workday as an almost habitual response to the dehumanizing trend they can represent. I am tempted to argue for ditching them at times, and even more so as I was reading yesterday about the ACT model of pathology (or non-pathology!), which I admit to finding far more sensible and human, as well as more consistent with my own experience.

>> Language is so much fun.... Obviously my message was sent from a different lace than it was received, and I apologize again for my insensitivity. I meant no harm, and I was more interested in discussion than dispute! In fact, I agreed with your take on the subject as you posted it and was simply carrying the ball further in that direction, although admittedly without thinking through all the consequences of my post. I hope we can undo the damage between us!

>> D>>

>> >>>> And where here did I suggest that we should just " ditch " diagnoses?>> >>> > >>>> > >

>>> > > Interesting, was just thinking about this as I was pondering whether the>>> > hoarding behavior is OCD, addiction, both, or neither-- or if it even>>> > matters what I call it. I'm really just sitting with this, noticing what

>>> > comes up. Not looking to vote on it, conclude anything really. Even the term>>> > 'hoard' is quite loaded.>>> > >>>> > > There is an element of humility that's missing from the whole diagnosis

>>> > game IMO..it's very political and shouldn't be underestimated.>>> > >>>> > > I think the strong pull to diagnose and find the correct label in our>>> > culture is a bit of a misguided distraction and should come with a big

>>> > warning label. I used to have a strong opinion that labels were necessary>>> > and then moved over to the notion that they were unhelpful. My feeling>>> > nowadays is more neutral, informed caution, pragmatic after years with ACT

>>> > and being on both sides as helper and helpee. If it works (living more>>> > aligned with your values and goals?) to identify as such then go for it.>>> > Just be mindful as to how you're labeling of your problem may or may not be

>>> > part of the problem, you may be over-pathologizing or objectifying yourself>>> > or the process by leaning too heavily on the labels while moving away from>>> > accurately addressing here and now process, function, which are fluid and

>>> > change over time given the context.>>> > >>>> > > To the extent we don't stay present with what's going on here and now and>>> > instead lean on the diagnosis and textbook protocol, we're rendered less

>>> > effective in helping ourselves, others.>>> > >>>> > > So maybe like so many other things, just hold it all lightly, use the<--> Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-T

> Rochester, NY, US> http://darrellking.com> DarrellGKing@...>>> -- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@...

October 16, 2011

Also, no damage here that needs to be undone. Terry

> > >> > >>

> > >> > >> Hi everyone! My name is and I was a member here before, but

> > >> > decided to return.

> > >> > >>

> > >> > >> I have been diagnosed with Social Anxiety Disorder in the past. I

> > used to

> > >> > focus my energy on trying to overcome my Social Anxiety Disorder but

> > now I

> > >> > strongly believe that I had the wrong aim. Instead, I've decided to

> > focus my

> > >> > aim to improving my social life and career. Some might see those two

> > aims as

> > >> > being two sides of the same coin. I'm convinced that the latter is the

> > >> > better option.

> > >> > >>

> > >> > >> , Forsyth and Eifert have persuaded me that it isn't useful for

> > >> > clients to label themselves with these syndromal labels - in fact, it

> > could

> > >> > be harmful. A person would soon identify herself with it instead of

> > seeing

> > >> > it as a part of herself: the conceptualized self. She would think of

> > herself

> > >> > as a " social anxious person " for instance, or " a person with OCD. "

> > Thus, she

> > >> > would believe that a personal transformation is required. You can

> > imagine

> > >> > the pressure that a client like that would go through.

> > >> > >>

> > >> > >> Also, with words like " anxiety disorder " or " mood disorder " it

> > obviously

> > >> > encourages a view that our emotions are " disordered. " If we fuse with

> > those

> > >> > thoughts, it can encourage more experiential avoidance and we know how

> > bad

> > >> > experiential avoidance is!

> > >> > >>

> > >> > >> Indeed, when I look back I realized I had a problem not when I was

> > told I

> > >> > had Social Phobia, but when I learned my severely limited social life

> > >> > hampered my career: it prevented me from having one. So I'm directing

> > my

> > >> > energy to making new friends and finding a career to commit to. Of

> > course,

> > >> > this will become more clear once I enter the Values section of GOYMIYL.

> > >> > >>

> > >> > >> C. from NYC

> > >> > >>

> > >> > >

> > >> >

> > >> > --

> > >> > Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-T

> > >> > Rochester, NY, US

> > >> > http://darrellking.com

> > >>

> > >

> >

> > --

> > Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-T

> > Rochester, NY, US

> > http://darrellking.com

> > DarrellGKing@

> >

>

October 16, 2011

Yes, your post actually reminded me of some of the points I have used in discussions at work. It is nice to be in an environment where such open-mindedness is so commonplace.D

> >> Also, no damage here that needs to be undone. Terry> >> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > > Interesting, was just thinking about this as I was pondering whether

>> > the>> > >> > hoarding behavior is OCD, addiction, both, or neither-- or if it even>> > >> > matters what I call it. I'm really just sitting with this, noticing

>> > what>> > >> > comes up. Not looking to vote on it, conclude anything really. Even the>> > term>> > >> > 'hoard' is quite loaded.>> > >> > >

>> > >> > > There is an element of humility that's missing from the whole>> > diagnosis>> > >> > game IMO..it's very political and shouldn't be underestimated.

>> > >> > >>> > >> > > I think the strong pull to diagnose and find the correct label in our>> > >> > culture is a bit of a misguided distraction and should come with a big

>> > >> > warning label. I used to have a strong opinion that labels were>> > necessary>> > >> > and then moved over to the notion that they were unhelpful. My feeling

>> > >> > nowadays is more neutral, informed caution, pragmatic after years with>> > ACT>> > >> > and being on both sides as helper and helpee. If it works (living more

>> > >> > aligned with your values and goals?) to identify as such then go for>> > it.>> > >> > Just be mindful as to how you're labeling of your problem may or may

>> > not be>> > >> > part of the problem, you may be over-pathologizing or objectifying>> > yourself>> > >> > or the process by leaning too heavily on the labels while moving away

>> > from>> > >> > accurately addressing here and now process, function, which are fluid>> > and>> > >> > change over time given the context.>> > >> > >

>> > >> > > To the extent we don't stay present with what's going on here and now>> > and>> > >> > instead lean on the diagnosis and textbook protocol, we're rendered

>> > less>> > >> > effective in helping ourselves, others.>> > >> > >>> > >> > > So maybe like so many other things, just hold it all lightly, use the

>> > >> > words as a broad guide maybe and stay curious and open and flexible>> > with>> > >> > respect to what's working/what isn't, here, now with respect to moving

>> > >> > forward with values and goals.>> > >> > >>> > >> > > Terry>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> -- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@...

October 16, 2011

What I learned from this exchange: When confused, asking for clarification might be a good idea prior to drawing conclusions and putting them out there. A sensible rule that I hope to keep in mind. We all jump to conclusions at times, especially in email communications where the look in the speaker's eyes, facial expression, tone of voice, posture, hand movements, etc., are not there to help deliver the message in the way it was intended.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 1:42:20 PMSubject: Re: Moving Away from my Syndromal Label

Yes, your post actually reminded me of some of the points I have used in discussions at work. It is nice to be in an environment where such open-mindedness is so commonplace.D> >> Also, no damage here that needs to be undone. Terry> >> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > > Interesting, was just thinking about this as I was pondering whether>> > the>> > >> > hoarding behavior is OCD, addiction, both, or neither-- or if it even>> > >> > matters what I call it. I'm really just sitting with this, noticing>> > what>> > >> > comes up. Not looking to vote on it, conclude anything really. Even the>> > term>> > >> > 'hoard' is quite loaded.>> > >> > >>> > >> > > There is an element of humility that's missing from the whole>> > diagnosis>> > >> > game IMO..it's very political and shouldn't be underestimated.>> > >> > >>> > >> > > I think the strong pull to diagnose and find the correct label in our>> > >> > culture is a bit of a misguided distraction and should come with a big>> > >> > warning label. I used to have a strong opinion that labels were>> > necessary>> > >> > and then moved over to the notion that they were unhelpful. My feeling>> > >> > nowadays is more neutral, informed caution, pragmatic after years with>> > ACT>> > >> > and being on both sides as helper and helpee. If it works (living more>> > >> > aligned with your values and goals?) to identify as such then go for>> > it.>> > >> > Just be mindful as to how you're labeling of your problem may or may>> > not be>> > >> > part of the problem, you may be over-pathologizing or objectifying>> > yourself>> > >> > or the process by leaning too heavily on the labels while moving away>> > from>> > >> > accurately addressing here and now process, function, which are fluid>> > and>> > >> > change over time given the context.>> > >> > >>> > >> > > To the extent we don't stay present with what's going on here and now>> > and>> > >> > instead lean on the diagnosis and textbook protocol, we're rendered>> > less>> > >> > effective in helping ourselves, others.>> > >> > >>> > >> > > So maybe like so many other things, just hold it all lightly, use the>> > >> > words as a broad guide maybe and stay curious and open and flexible>> > with>> > >> > respect to what's working/what isn't, here, now with respect to moving>> > >> > forward with values and goals.>> > >> > >>> > >> > > Terry>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> -- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@...

October 16, 2011