Re: Re: Problems with self-compassion

[Guest guest]

Thanks Randy, , Helena.I'm in a bit of a mood with the exercise, I think. I'm not at all tough, I'm actually open and sensitive, and I really do want it to work for me. But I can't get it to click, despite a lot of practice. There was a TV sitcom in which a police sketch artist is trying to draw an image of the assailant from a victim's description. But, despite trying to help, she kept using descriptive terms that didn't help:He had a definant, furious, nose.His cheeks were very practicalHis eyes were melancholy, but with a latent rage behind themHis mouth

was ragged. No, not like that. More mainstream than that.His jawline and chin was like two shoals of fish merging. No, not like that. Freshwater fish.I am the police sketch artist, working with these sorts of descriptions: "Let the kindness flow from your fingers" "Infuse

this gentle action with caring and warmth""Infuse

this breath with caring and contribution""Hold this pain gently. Hold it as if it is a crying baby, a

whimpering puppy, or a fragile work of art""Connect with yourself"

"Offer peace to your feelings rather than hostility"

"Contribute

peace and space to all that arises"I have bought a little into a voice saying that because I don't understand it, then it must be sentimental hogwash. Unfortunately, my scientist is incredibly logical and his imagination is the size of a pea, so he doesn't seem to butt in on my mind to look at things more rationally.Thanks, xThanks for the links btw Randy - I will look at them in more detail. To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Thursday, 22 December 2011, 12:09 Subject: Re: Problems with self-compassion wrote, > > Has anyone else come across this problem, and how have you > become more comfortable with self-compassion and expressions > of warmth, kindness and caring (even writing those words is > unnatural for me).Hi -I've had very similar reactions to self-compassion exercises. And when I am feeling hateful or stuck these reactions seemcomfortable. They are as ancient and familiar as the characterGollum in "Lord of the Rings." What helps me, when I can remember to do so, is to listen.If I listen to this voice that is criticizing self-compassion as toosentimental or too fuzzy or what have you, it reveals itself as thefamiliar voice of judgment that for so long has sought to guard me;to keep me safe from harm by running down everything in my

life,including me. If my expectations are zero I can't be hurt! If I let this voice keep talking, it will offer lots of "reasons"why self-compassion is something to scorn or even be ashamed of:"The world is a tough place, so you need to be tough too," "Yourlife is easy - some people really have it hard - what makes youthink you deserve this 'compassion' nonsense?" Etc.And once I notice the voice for what it is, I have a choice. I cankeep playing at being tough if I think the world will reward me fortoughness - not just toughness on the outside, but toughness andhardness on the inside where no one can even see it but me. HoweverI've noticed that the world does not in fact care whether I play atbeing tough or not. The world does not care if I deprive myself of kindness any more than it would care if I starved myself of foodor sleep. I've seen other men too try to be tough because they

were told thatwas the way to be. Often they ended up very unhappy. It happened tomy father and to the fathers of many of my friends. Other men haveshown the capacity to laugh & cry and baby themselves sometimes,and perversely they have seemed more accessible to those around themand in the end happier, even though they knew sadness too. I can imagine someone tough as nails in terms of surviving a harshenvironment, yet who can also practice softness and sweetness andkindness without shame, whether toward himself or others. I aspiremuch more to be this soft sweep ripe toughie than someone who hasbought so thoroughly into inner hardness that he is like a dried outhunk of cheese in the fridge - totally inedible, totallyunnourishing for anybody.The very fact that it is so hard to defuse from thoughts of "I'vegot to be tough" and "Babying myself is wrong" etc. tells mesomething. Would I

treat someone else like this? If I am kind to anelderly cat or an elderly person or a child etc., why would I not bekind to myself? Again, it's that hard hard voice that raps outjudgment . . . do I want to go along with that voice, and what sortof world is it offering me? So sure, I think I understand and share your experience of that hardhard voice. - RandyP.S. There are some self-forgiveness exercises I practice now and then and they might be helpful too, now that I am thinking how unforgiving this voice is - http://www.wellnessgoods.com/forgiveness.asphttp://www.podcastdirectory.com/podshows/712646------------------------------------For other ACT materials and list serves see

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[Guest guest]

Thanks for your post.  I feel very similar to you.I like Randy's suggestion to listen to this voice.  I have some and what this voice is saying is what Randy's says but turned on it's head.

A voice in me says I should like this warm fuzzy mushy sentimentality.  That there is something wrong with me that I don't and perhaps I just don't have normal emotions like most people or that I would if I did the exercises correctly or something.

But I think I will simply accept that I don't care for the warm fuzzy compassion stuff and not fight it.Cheers! 

 

wrote,

>

> Has anyone else come across this problem, and how have you

> become more comfortable with self-compassion and expressions

> of warmth, kindness and caring (even writing those words is

> unnatural for me).

Hi -

I've had very similar reactions to self-compassion exercises.

And when I am feeling hateful or stuck these reactions seem

comfortable. They are as ancient and familiar as the character

Gollum in " Lord of the Rings. "

What helps me, when I can remember to do so, is to listen.

If I listen to this voice that is criticizing self-compassion as too

sentimental or too fuzzy or what have you, it reveals itself as the

familiar voice of judgment that for so long has sought to guard me;

to keep me safe from harm by running down everything in my life,

including me. If my expectations are zero I can't be hurt!

If I let this voice keep talking, it will offer lots of " reasons "

why self-compassion is something to scorn or even be ashamed of:

" The world is a tough place, so you need to be tough too, " " Your

life is easy - some people really have it hard - what makes you

think you deserve this 'compassion' nonsense? " Etc.

And once I notice the voice for what it is, I have a choice. I can

keep playing at being tough if I think the world will reward me for

toughness - not just toughness on the outside, but toughness and

hardness on the inside where no one can even see it but me. However

I've noticed that the world does not in fact care whether I play at

being tough or not. The world does not care if I deprive myself of

kindness any more than it would care if I starved myself of food

or sleep.

I've seen other men too try to be tough because they were told that

was the way to be. Often they ended up very unhappy. It happened to

my father and to the fathers of many of my friends. Other men have

shown the capacity to laugh & cry and baby themselves sometimes,

and perversely they have seemed more accessible to those around them

and in the end happier, even though they knew sadness too.

I can imagine someone tough as nails in terms of surviving a harsh

environment, yet who can also practice softness and sweetness and

kindness without shame, whether toward himself or others. I aspire

much more to be this soft sweep ripe toughie than someone who has

bought so thoroughly into inner hardness that he is like a dried out

hunk of cheese in the fridge - totally inedible, totally

unnourishing for anybody.

The very fact that it is so hard to defuse from thoughts of " I've

got to be tough " and " Babying myself is wrong " etc. tells me

something. Would I treat someone else like this? If I am kind to an

elderly cat or an elderly person or a child etc., why would I not be

kind to myself? Again, it's that hard hard voice that raps out

judgment . . . do I want to go along with that voice, and what sort

of world is it offering me?

So sure, I think I understand and share your experience of that hard

hard voice.

- Randy

P.S. There are some self-forgiveness exercises I practice now and then

and they might be helpful too, now that I am thinking how unforgiving

this voice is -

http://www.wellnessgoods.com/forgiveness.asp

http://www.podcastdirectory.com/podshows/712646

[Guest guest]

Having learned to be resistant and defiant at a young age is something I can identify with. In my case, I could not hold back the tears while being struck, but when I was ordered to get down on my knees and ask for God's forgiveness, I refused to pray. After 20 minutes or so on my knees, with my abuser beside me, he finally gave up and let me go. I wore him our with my stubbornness. Victory! And he never made me to that again. Double victory!

I think it is difficult to give up being resistant and defiant as adults when we relied on those defense mechanisms to keep us from losing ourselves as children. Enter ACT, which asks us to accept everything and let go of resistance. It's a hard transformation for some of us to make.

Helena

From: "michieux" <michieux.au>To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 11:01:44 AMSubject: Re: Problems with self-compassion

Yeah, I have struck similar brick walls when attempting to do such exercises. That's probably why I've picked up and dropped numerous ACT books -- I get stuck at those brick walls.I have a glimmer of what to look for, though. I look for the scared, little guy that is inside there, somewhere. He doesn't always (hardly ever) want to show himself, and that's because he has this very strong reluctance to acknowledge the tormentors, those who caused so much grief and pain. (I remember being belted as a youngster, slapped hard, across the face and everywhere else, and laughing through my tears at the one doing the belting -- usually a parent -- because I refused to give them the satisfaction of having reached my innermost core. It was an act of resistance and defiance.)As I remember it now, although there was affection shown in our house, it always came at a price: I couldn't be who I was. I had to be what they wanted me to be. The 'break' -- that's what I call the moment when I became lost to myself -- came when there was no way I could assert myself in any meaningful way. So I became what I became, some sort of fragmented version of a person. I don't know if I'll ever be able to put all the pieces together again because I don't really know how many there are or where they are.So that's my 'take' on it, . Look for the little guy in there, somewhere. He's perhaps the only one who can melt the ice, even if only a little bit.Regards,Detlef>> > > Hi> > Ihave been practicing and practicing Russ's exercise from the Reality Slap which he posted here towards the end of November, which is an exercise in the present moment, expansion and self-compassion.> > I have a lot of difficulty at these stages:> Now slowly and deeply> breathe into the pain, do so with an attitude> of kindness. > > Infuse this breath with> caring and contribution; see it as an act of comfort and support> · Infuse this gentle> action with caring and warmth, as if you are reaching out to someone you care> about> · Let the kindness flow> from your fingers> · Now, use both of your> hands Place one of them upon your chest and the other upon your stomach, and> let them gently rest there.> · Hold yourself kindly> and gently, connecting with yourself, caring for yourself, and contributing> comfort and support> > Does anyone else have problems with woolly and warm words? I don't know if it is because I wasn't hugged enough as a kid, but I just cringe at sentimentality, and I get turned-off during the exercise when it comes to these actions. I guess it is important in succeeding with these sorts of exercises, so this is something I need to address.> > > Has anyone else come across this problem, and how have you become more comfortable with self-compassion and expressions of warmth, kindness and caring (even writing those words is unnatural for me). It makes me squirm, when I think it is meant to make me feel scure.> > > (Sorry about the weird formatting in this email, I don't know how to turn if off!!!)> > Best wishes> > x>

[Guest guest]

I will look closely, Detlef, and listen too, Randy.I had a very loving upbringing - in fact, it was too sheltered, because my parents made sure they argued in private, never told me of the financial hardships they faced, and wrapped me up in cotton wool. It meant I was never exposed or able to learn how to handle real life, and I feel too closely in touch with my feelings. In the "grass is always greener" tradition, I wish I could build a wall around my emotions sometimes, although I know it's a road to nowhere good.Cheers, To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Thursday, 22 December 2011, 16:01 Subject: Re: Problems with self-compassion

Yeah, I have struck similar brick walls when attempting to do such exercises. That's probably why I've picked up and dropped numerous ACT books -- I get stuck at those brick walls.I have a glimmer of what to look for, though. I look for the scared, little guy that is inside there, somewhere. He doesn't always (hardly ever) want to show himself, and that's because he has this very strong reluctance to acknowledge the tormentors, those who caused so much grief and pain. (I remember being belted as a youngster, slapped hard, across the face and everywhere else, and laughing through my tears at the one doing the belting -- usually a parent -- because I refused to give them the satisfaction of having reached my innermost core. It was an act of resistance and defiance.)As I remember it now, although there was affection shown in our house, it always came at a price: I couldn't be who I was. I had to be

what they wanted me to be. The 'break' -- that's what I call the moment when I became lost to myself -- came when there was no way I could assert myself in any meaningful way. So I became what I became, some sort of fragmented version of a person. I don't know if I'll ever be able to put all the pieces together again because I don't really know how many there are or where they are.So that's my 'take' on it, . Look for the little guy in there, somewhere. He's perhaps the only one who can melt the ice, even if only a little bit.Regards,Detlef>> > > Hi> > Ihave been practicing and practicing Russ's exercise from the Reality Slap which he posted here towards the end of November, which is an exercise in the present moment, expansion and self-compassion.>

> I have a lot of difficulty at these stages:> Now slowly and deeply> breathe into the pain, do so with an attitude> of kindness. > > Infuse this breath with> caring and contribution; see it as an act of comfort and support> · Infuse this gentle> action with caring and warmth, as if you are reaching out to someone you care> about> · Let the kindness flow> from your fingers> · Now, use both of your> hands Place one of them upon your chest and the other upon your stomach, and> let them gently rest there.> · Hold yourself kindly> and gently, connecting with yourself, caring for yourself, and

contributing> comfort and support> > Does anyone else have problems with woolly and warm words? I don't know if it is because I wasn't hugged enough as a kid, but I just cringe at sentimentality, and I get turned-off during the exercise when it comes to these actions. I guess it is important in succeeding with these sorts of exercises, so this is something I need to address.> > > Has anyone else come across this problem, and how have you become more comfortable with self-compassion and expressions of warmth, kindness and caring (even writing those words is unnatural for me). It makes me squirm, when I think it is meant to make me feel scure.> > > (Sorry about the weird formatting in this email, I don't know how to turn if off!!!)> > Best wishes> > x>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Maybe you are reading too much into it. I think generally we British have a bit of a dislike for 'emotional speak'. Maybe you could try re-wording it in terms that you find more comfortable? Experiment with it and see how that works.

Have a Happy Christmas and All!

Simone x

To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Friday, 23 December 2011, 11:32Subject: Re: Re: Problems with self-compassion

I will look closely, Detlef, and listen too, Randy.

I had a very loving upbringing - in fact, it was too sheltered, because my parents made sure they argued in private, never told me of the financial hardships they faced, and wrapped me up in cotton wool. It meant I was never exposed or able to learn how to handle real life, and I feel too closely in touch with my feelings.

In the "grass is always greener" tradition, I wish I could build a wall around my emotions sometimes, although I know it's a road to nowhere good.

Cheers,

To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Thursday, 22 December 2011, 16:01Subject: Re: Problems with self-compassion

Yeah, I have struck similar brick walls when attempting to do such exercises. That's probably why I've picked up and dropped numerous ACT books -- I get stuck at those brick walls.I have a glimmer of what to look for, though. I look for the scared, little guy that is inside there, somewhere. He doesn't always (hardly ever) want to show himself, and that's because he has this very strong reluctance to acknowledge the tormentors, those who caused so much grief and pain. (I remember being belted as a youngster, slapped hard, across the face and everywhere else, and laughing through my tears at the one doing the belting -- usually a parent -- because I refused to give them the satisfaction of having reached my innermost core. It was an act of resistance and defiance.)As I remember it now, although there was affection shown in our house, it always came at a price: I couldn't be who I was. I

had to be what they wanted me to be. The 'break' -- that's what I call the moment when I became lost to myself -- came when there was no way I could assert myself in any meaningful way. So I became what I became, some sort of fragmented version of a person. I don't know if I'll ever be able to put all the pieces together again because I don't really know how many there are or where they are.So that's my 'take' on it, . Look for the little guy in there, somewhere. He's perhaps the only one who can melt the ice, even if only a little bit.Regards,Detlef>> > > Hi> > Ihave been practicing and practicing Russ's exercise from the Reality Slap which he posted here towards the end of November, which is an exercise in the present moment, expansion and

self-compassion.> > I have a lot of difficulty at these stages:> Now slowly and deeply> breathe into the pain, do so with an attitude> of kindness. > > Infuse this breath with> caring and contribution; see it as an act of comfort and support> · Infuse this gentle> action with caring and warmth, as if you are reaching out to someone you care> about> · Let the kindness flow> from your fingers> · Now, use both of your> hands Place one of them upon your chest and the other upon your stomach, and> let them gently rest there.> · Hold yourself kindly> and gently, connecting with yourself,

caring for yourself, and contributing> comfort and support> > Does anyone else have problems with woolly and warm words? I don't know if it is because I wasn't hugged enough as a kid, but I just cringe at sentimentality, and I get turned-off during the exercise when it comes to these actions. I guess it is important in succeeding with these sorts of exercises, so this is something I need to address.> > > Has anyone else come across this problem, and how have you become more comfortable with self-compassion and expressions of warmth, kindness and caring (even writing those words is unnatural for me). It makes me squirm, when I think it is meant to make me feel scure.> > > (Sorry about the weird formatting in this email, I don't know how to turn if off!!!)> > Best wishes> > x>

[Guest guest]

Hi Lou - I hesitate to comment on your post as I do not want to seem to quibble. But my experience is a bit different.I've found that it's important for me to keep compassion for others and compassion for self in balance. I need to constantly remind myself to be compassionate towards myself so I don't run out of capacity (psychological flexibility) to be compassionate for others. The two seem to be like the chicken and the egg dilemma.I think we need to start from where we are and move in the direction our own values take us.Compassion certainly manifests itself in me as an emotion. I shed real tears over the smallest of other's suffering. But I tend to flog myself if it's me that's suffering. This has begun to change significantly now that I have added the value of "being kind to myself" to my values list. Interestingly, it never crossed my mind that I even needed such a value until I noticed that I would get stuck even when I was giving myself high grades for living a valued life, or so I thought.I hope you will keep posting as I find your posts inspirational and thought-provoking.Happy Holidays,BillTo: ACT_for_the_Public From: experiential2010@...Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 02:24:32 +0000Subject: Re: Problems with self-compassion

I believe that we need to start with compassion for others before we can move onto self-compassion.

I did not learn self-compassion through language and thinking, I experienced it through physical sensations. It helped to still the voice and focus on the sensations. What I mean by still the voice is like the "Listening in Silence" meditation, where you keep coming back to letting the voice flow without engaging with it.

Compassion starts as an emotion, or something that you feel. If your ACT practice is sharp in that moment, you may notice that feeling (many people describe it as warm and fuzzy :-) and in noticing, experience the joy and liberation of the compassionate self.

Lou

>

>

>

> Hi

>

> Ihave been practicing and practicing Russ's exercise from the Reality Slap which he posted here towards the end of November, which is an exercise in the present moment, expansion and self-compassion.

>

> I have a lot of difficulty at these stages:

> Now slowly and deeply

> breathe into the pain, do so with an attitude

> of kindness.

>

> Infuse this breath with

> caring and contribution; see it as an act of comfort and support

> · Infuse this gentle

> action with caring and warmth, as if you are reaching out to someone you care

> about

> · Let the kindness flow

> from your fingers

> · Now, use both of your

> hands Place one of them upon your chest and the other upon your stomach, and

> let them gently rest there.

> · Hold yourself kindly

> and gently, connecting with yourself, caring for yourself, and contributing

> comfort and support

>

> Does anyone else have problems with woolly and warm words? I don't know if it is because I wasn't hugged enough as a kid, but I just cringe at sentimentality, and I get turned-off during the exercise when it comes to these actions. I guess it is important in succeeding with these sorts of exercises, so this is something I need to address.

>

>

> Has anyone else come across this problem, and how have you become more comfortable with self-compassion and expressions of warmth, kindness and caring (even writing those words is unnatural for me). It makes me squirm, when I think it is meant to make me feel scure.

>

>

> (Sorry about the weird formatting in this email, I don't know how to turn if off!!!)

>

> Best wishes

>

> x

>

[Guest guest]

Hi SimoneWoulnd't be the first time I have over-thought things - thanks for the pointer.Have a lovely break, x To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Friday, 23 December 2011, 15:31 Subject: Re: Re: Problems with self-compassion

Hi ,

Maybe you are reading too much into it. I think generally we British have a bit of a dislike for 'emotional speak'. Maybe you could try re-wording it in terms that you find more comfortable? Experiment with it and see how that works.

Have a Happy Christmas and All!

Simone x

To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Friday, 23 December 2011, 11:32Subject: Re: Re: Problems with self-compassion

I will look closely, Detlef, and listen too, Randy.

I had a very loving upbringing - in fact, it was too sheltered, because my parents made sure they argued in private, never told me of the financial hardships they faced, and wrapped me up in cotton wool. It meant I was never exposed or able to learn how to handle real life, and I feel too closely in touch with my feelings.

In the "grass is always greener" tradition, I wish I could build a wall around my emotions sometimes, although I know it's a road to nowhere good.

Cheers,

To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Thursday, 22 December 2011, 16:01Subject: Re: Problems with self-compassion

Yeah, I have struck similar brick walls when attempting to do such exercises. That's probably why I've picked up and dropped numerous ACT books -- I get stuck at those brick walls.I have a glimmer of what to look for, though. I look for the scared, little guy that is inside there, somewhere. He doesn't always (hardly ever) want to show himself, and that's because he has this very strong reluctance to acknowledge the tormentors, those who caused so much grief and pain. (I remember being belted as a youngster, slapped hard, across the face and everywhere else, and laughing through my tears at the one doing the belting -- usually a parent -- because I refused to give them the satisfaction of having reached my innermost core. It was an act of resistance and defiance.)As I remember it now, although there was affection shown in our house, it always came at a price: I couldn't be who I

was. I

had to be what they wanted me to be. The 'break' -- that's what I call the moment when I became lost to myself -- came when there was no way I could assert myself in any meaningful way. So I became what I became, some sort of fragmented version of a person. I don't know if I'll ever be able to put all the pieces together again because I don't really know how many there are or where they are.So that's my 'take' on it, . Look for the little guy in there, somewhere. He's perhaps the only one who can melt the ice, even if only a little bit.Regards,Detlef>> > > Hi> > Ihave been practicing and practicing Russ's exercise from the Reality Slap which he posted here towards the end of November, which is an exercise in the present moment, expansion and

self-compassion.> > I have a lot of difficulty at these stages:> Now slowly and deeply> breathe into the pain, do so with an attitude> of kindness. > > Infuse this breath with> caring and contribution; see it as an act of comfort and support> · Infuse this gentle> action with caring and warmth, as if you are reaching out to someone you care> about> · Let the kindness flow> from your fingers> · Now, use both of your> hands Place one of them upon your chest and the other upon your stomach, and> let them gently rest there.> · Hold yourself kindly> and gently, connecting with yourself,

caring for yourself, and contributing> comfort and support> > Does anyone else have problems with woolly and warm words? I don't know if it is because I wasn't hugged enough as a kid, but I just cringe at sentimentality, and I get turned-off during the exercise when it comes to these actions. I guess it is important in succeeding with these sorts of exercises, so this is something I need to address.> > > Has anyone else come across this problem, and how have you become more comfortable with self-compassion and expressions of warmth, kindness and caring (even writing those words is unnatural for me). It makes me squirm, when I think it is meant to make me feel scure.> > > (Sorry about the weird formatting in this email, I don't know how to turn if off!!!)> > Best wishes> > x>