Re: Prioritising values over thoughts

[Guest guest]

Hi Bill"Finding [my values] has been a real process of discovery, rather than deciding what life to pick from a menu".Absolutely. In economics, it is known that people don't really know their "true" preferences. They can only be "revealed" through experimenting, and through quite innovative forms of market research (like lab-based choice experiments, seeing what people value in certain products). For example, I presume no-one ever said that they wanted mobile phones. They didn't exist. It was "revealed" that this is what people would demand, and through experiments, trials, and ultimately putting them on the market to see if people would buy

them.So, how do we "reveal" our values?I think that's where I find the ACT business model of values to be somewhat cold, clinical, and perhaps inhibiting imagination. I think there are many other exercises that could be used to try and "reveal" our values. I suggested one a couple of months back, which helped me. In that exercise, I wrote down on post-its lots of statements of things that make me feel happy. (Or "fulfilled", if you prefer). A brainstorm. I wrote down 50 or 60 little statements. I then grouped them together in a way that seemed sensible, into lots of little piles. Later on, I looked at all those groups and gave them labels. This pile describes me acting as a fun and playful father to my son. That pile describes me as a community "activist". The other piles

describes me as a reader of trashy thriller novels. I'm also not convinced that values can only be expressed as a simple list of statements. Someone here came up with a wonderful idea for a mosaic. I wonder how many new values (why do we have to have so few???) I might generate by looking through old photographs, through my Facebook status updates, or through my diary / journal? Even my emails. But nothing would beat experimentation. I could die a reasonably contented man having never known my true preferences, but having experimented life in trying to work them out!I hope future ACT books will come up with more innovative ways of exploring and enjoying values. For a branch of therapy that talks

about the meaningless of thoughts - it seems to spend an awful lot of time talking about them!!!!Cheers, . To: ACT_for_the_Public <act_for_the_public > Sent: Wednesday, 15 February 2012, 0:09 Subject: RE: The Myth of Personal Growth

- I've had the same thought about the ACT values work seeming like a business model. But I've found that I had to come at my values in that way to fully get at them. What I've found is that my values are hard-wired into who I am. Finding them has been a real process of discovery, rather than deciding what life to pick from a menu.Interestingly, I've discovered my values more by understanding when I'm uncomfortable with the way I'm living my life. I think that might be what was saying. BillTo: ACT_for_the_Public From: oscar.robson@...Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 18:11:25 +0000Subject: Re: The Myth of Personal Growth

Amen to that, Bill. Values lead us on the life we wish to lead. Everything else tries to make us as comfortable and connected as possible whilst living it. I actually feel that the values and goals work is rather under-developed within ACT. It feels like a business model for living life: set a business philosophy, and some nice quarterly targets, and off you go. I think that there may be some other ways of setting values and help for achieving what you want to achieve. x. To: ACT_for_the_Public <act_for_the_public > Sent: Tuesday, 14 February 2012, 16:39 Subject: RE: The Myth of Personal Growth

Thanks .Your story is a powerful one about the importance of really doing the values work and then taking committed action towards those values. It's so easy to mistake our myths for real values. And it's also so easy to let those myths carry us in a direction so different from where we really want to go.It's also easy to use "mindfulness" (defusion, acceptance, contact with the present and observing self) as a substitute for doing the hard values work and taking committed action.It's interesting to me that the values stuff is towards the end of many ACT books, when the values work might be the key to ending a struggle.I read somewhere that values and committed action are the most important components of ACT and that the mindfulness components add to the experience.I'm going to revisit my values to see if there are any

myths lurking.BillTo: ACT_for_the_Public From: garysmeade@...Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 18:49:18 +1000Subject: The Myth of Personal Growth

I have been seriously challenging the myths that I have been living by, and one of the strongest has been the myth of personal growth. This is analogous to the myth of self-esteem that has been referred to by people such as Russ .

For a long time I worked under the suspicion that I was inferior and immature, and if only I could go through some kind of behaviour modification, I could grow to become so much more fulfilled and happy. Personal growth is a topic so very common that websites such as that of Steve Pavlina attract millions of hits, and movements such as The Law of Attraction/The Secret tout human potential and success as being paramount.

When ACT came along and totally confronted and challenged this notion, I was not ready to hear it, for I had been heavily indoctrinated in a mindset of hope - firstly hope for an eternal home, and then hope for a better life here and now through prosperity, success, and health. It was confusing to be told that such hopes were pointless and mere fantasy, and that techniques of behaviour modification just plain would not work.

Eventually through much pain and struggle I had to face the existential truth. That firstly I could not live in the notion of a life after this one. And secondly that methods of control would continue to lead me in circles of frustration. There was but one thing that I could do though that would bring the satisfaction that I so desperately craved: accept my lot, and chase things of value and meaning.

So I began a path of finding firstly what I treasured in life. This lead me to music, and its power to move me in ways that nothing else can. I dived into exploring both the local indie music scene, and finding some artists and albums that I connect so deeply with. Music has been such a source of enrichment that a life without it to me is currently inconceivable.

But yet even music falls short of the fulfilment that comes from inspiring friendships and social engagement. I have been enjoying the value of friendship immensely, and have had the opportunity to provide spaces for friendships to develop and nurture, by hosting Meetup groups in my city. It has become my conviction that real, genuine, and pure friendship is rare, and must be cherished.

My attention has been captured now by pursuing a life of meaning and value. The myth of personal growth states that a person's life can be measured - yet how many brilliant minds have come and gone whose best work occurred early in their life, who even in the development of their ideas went on to actually degrade in meaningful and creative activity? The height and zenith of existence is to find the highest and best meaning in this moment. When we have a cherished focus, and find ourselves captured in that, we can find that level of fulfilment we so desperately crave.

Yet not every moment will lend us such inspiration. For life will serve dishes randomly, sometimes exquisite, sometimes repulsive. It is our values and our healthy appreciation of reality that will save us from the grip of despair. At least now I can say, if this is all there is, then let me do my best, let go of my unrealistic expectations, and face life's every movement resisting nothing, regretting nothing, accepting everything just as it is.

[Guest guest]

, it's not that thoughts are meaningless or meaningful really. And thoughts

come with..not something i sort through or even put aside in order to live, as

your new title sort of implies. Although the more i live authentically, the less

thoughts seem to matter in general.

>

> Hi Bill

>

> " Finding [my values] has been a real process of discovery, rather than

deciding what life to pick from a menu " .

>

> Absolutely. 

>

>

> In economics, it is known that people don't really know their " true "

preferences.  They can only be " revealed " through experimenting, and through

quite innovative forms of market research (like lab-based choice experiments,

seeing what people value in certain products).  For example, I presume no-one

ever said that they wanted mobile phones.  They didn't exist.  It was

" revealed " that this is what people would demand, and through experiments,

trials, and ultimately putting them on the market to see if people would buy

them.

>

>

> So, how do we " reveal " our values?

>

>

> I think that's where I find the ACT business model of values to be somewhat

cold, clinical, and perhaps inhibiting imagination.  I think there are many

other exercises that could be used to try and " reveal " our values.  I suggested

one a couple of months back, which helped me.  In that exercise, I wrote down

on post-its lots of statements of things that make me feel happy.  (Or

" fulfilled " , if you prefer).  A brainstorm.  I wrote down 50 or 60 little

statements.  I then grouped them together in a way that seemed sensible, into

lots of little piles.  Later on, I looked at all those groups and gave them

labels.  This pile describes me acting as a fun and playful father to my son. 

That pile describes me as a community " activist " .  The other piles describes me

as a reader of trashy thriller novels.

>

>

> I'm also not convinced that values can only be expressed as a simple list of

statements.  Someone here  came up with a wonderful idea for a mosaic.  I

wonder how many new values (why do we have to have so few???) I might generate

by looking through old photographs, through my Facebook status updates, or

through my diary / journal?  Even my emails. 

>

>

> But nothing would beat experimentation.  I could die a reasonably contented

man having never known my true preferences, but having experimented life in

trying to work them out!

>

> I hope future ACT books will come up with more innovative ways of exploring

and enjoying values. 

>

>

> For a branch of therapy that talks about the meaningless of thoughts - it

seems to spend an awful lot of time talking about them!!!!

>

>

> Cheers, . 

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: ACT_for_the_Public <act_for_the_public >

> Sent: Wednesday, 15 February 2012, 0:09

> Subject: RE: The Myth of Personal Growth

>

>

>  

> - I've had the same thought about the ACT values work seeming like a

business model. But I've found that I had to come at my values in that way to

fully get at them. What I've found is that my values are hard-wired into who I

am. Finding them has been a real process of discovery, rather than deciding what

life to pick from a menu.

>

> Interestingly, I've discovered my values more by understanding when I'm

uncomfortable with the way I'm living my life. I think that might be what

was saying. 

>

> Bill

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> To: ACT_for_the_Public

> From: oscar.robson@...

> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 18:11:25 +0000

> Subject: Re: The Myth of Personal Growth

>

>  

>

>

> Amen to that, Bill. 

>  

> Values lead us on the life we wish to lead.  Everything else tries to make us

as comfortable and connected as possible whilst living it.

>  

> I actually feel that the values and goals work is rather under-developed

within ACT.  It feels like a business model for living life: set a business

philosophy, and some nice quarterly targets, and off you go.  I think that

there may be some other ways of setting values and help for achieving what you

want to achieve. 

>  

> x.

>

>

> To: ACT_for_the_Public <act_for_the_public >

> Sent: Tuesday, 14 February 2012, 16:39

> Subject: RE: The Myth of Personal Growth

>

>

>  

> Thanks .

>

> Your story is a powerful one about the importance of really doing the values

work and then taking committed action towards those values. It's so easy to

mistake our myths for real values. And it's also so easy to let those myths

carry us in a direction so different from where we really want to go.

>

> It's also easy to use " mindfulness " (defusion, acceptance, contact with the

present and observing self) as a substitute for doing the hard values work and

taking committed action.

>

> It's interesting to me that the values stuff is towards the end of many ACT

books, when the values work might be the key to ending a struggle.

>

> I read somewhere that values and committed action are the most important

components of ACT and that the mindfulness components add to the experience.

>

> I'm going to revisit my values to see if there are any myths lurking.

>

> Bill

>

> To: ACT_for_the_Public

> From: garysmeade@...

> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 18:49:18 +1000

> Subject: The Myth of Personal Growth

>

>  

> I have been seriously challenging the myths that I have been living by, and

one of the strongest has been the myth of personal growth.  This

is analogous to the myth of self-esteem that has been referred to by people

such as Russ .  

>

>

> For a long time I worked under the suspicion that I was inferior and immature,

and if only I could go through some kind of behaviour modification, I could grow

to become so much more fulfilled and happy.  Personal growth is a topic so very

common that websites such as that of Steve Pavlina attract millions of hits,

and movements such as The Law of Attraction/The Secret tout human potential and

success as being paramount.

>

> When ACT came along and totally confronted and challenged this notion, I was

not ready to hear it, for I had been heavily indoctrinated in a mindset of hope

- firstly hope for an eternal home, and then hope for a better life here and now

through prosperity, success, and health.  It was confusing to be told that such

hopes were pointless and mere fantasy, and that techniques of behaviour

modification just plain would not work.

>

> Eventually through much pain and struggle I had to face the existential truth.

 That firstly I could not live in the notion of a life after this one.  And

secondly that methods of control would continue to lead me in circles of

frustration.  There was but one thing that I could do though that would bring

the satisfaction that I so desperately craved: accept my lot, and chase things

of value and meaning.

>

> So I began a path of finding firstly what I treasured in life.  This lead me

to music, and its power to move me in ways that nothing else can.  I dived into

exploring both the local indie music scene, and finding some artists and albums

that I connect so deeply with.  Music has been such a source of enrichment that

a life without it to me is currently inconceivable.  

>

> But yet even music falls short of the fulfilment that comes from inspiring

friendships and social engagement.  I have been enjoying the value of

friendship immensely, and have had the opportunity to provide spaces for

friendships to develop and nurture, by hosting Meetup groups in my city.  It

has become my conviction that real, genuine, and pure friendship is rare, and

must be cherished.  

>

> My attention has been captured now by pursuing a life of meaning and value.

 The myth of personal growth states that a person's life can be measured - yet

how many brilliant minds have come and gone whose best work occurred early in

their life, who even in the development of their ideas went on to actually

degrade in meaningful and creative activity?  The height and zenith of

existence is to find the highest and best meaning in this moment.  When we have

a cherished focus, and find ourselves captured in that, we can find that level

of fulfilment we so desperately crave.

>

> Yet not every moment will lend us such inspiration.  For life will serve

dishes randomly, sometimes exquisite, sometimes repulsive.  It is our values

and our healthy appreciation of reality that will save us from the grip of

despair.  At least now I can say, if this is all there is, then let me do my

best, let go of my unrealistic expectations, and face life's every movement

resisting nothing, regretting nothing, accepting everything just as it is.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

What I want is one of those machines like in Star Trek where you stand

on this circular plate and press a button and there you are somewhere

else in seconds. Getting to work would be great - just wake up and zap

yourself there which would me give an extra 1/2 hour in bed - wow! But

I might get lazy and never walk anywhere again, crumbs!

And what if I can't sleep: oh well, I could zap myself down some late

night club that sells real ale and after two pints I could zap myself

back home again to get to sleep, hopefully, Hmmm! but perhaps a opium

den would bettter.

Maybe some things in modern life are not so good after all, so I think I

will just stick with things as they are at pressent. It's bad enough at

the moment anyway and no one likes change all that much afterall. We

evolved over millions of years where nothing ever really altered that

much, we just did what our parents did - hunt and gather - which worked

fine most of the time, as long as you survived the viruses. But most of

those really nasty viruses are caused by modern farming practices anyway

(because of incubation caused by animals being too closely packed

together).

Just a thought, or two.

Kv

>

> Hi Bill

>

> " Finding [my values] has been a real process of discovery, rather than

deciding what life to pick from a menu " .

>

> Absolutely.Â

>

>

> In economics, it is known that people don't really know their " true "

preferences. They can only be " revealed " through experimenting, and

through quite innovative forms of market research (like lab-based choice

experiments, seeing what people value in certain products). For

example, I presume no-one ever said that they wanted mobile phones.Â

They didn't exist. It was " revealed " that this is what people would

demand, and through experiments, trials, and ultimately putting them on

the market to see if people would buy them.

>

>

> So, how do we " reveal " our values?

>

>

> I think that's where I find the ACT business model of values to be

somewhat cold, clinical, and perhaps inhibiting imagination. I

think there are many other exercises that could be used to try and

" reveal " our values. I suggested one a couple of months back, which

helped me. In that exercise, I wrote down on post-its lots of

statements of things that make me feel happy. (Or " fulfilled " , if

you prefer). A brainstorm. I wrote down 50 or 60 little

statements. I then grouped them together in a way that seemed

sensible, into lots of little piles. Later on, I looked at all

those groups and gave them labels. This pile describes me acting as

a fun and playful father to my son. That pile describes me as a

community " activist " . The other piles describes me as a reader of

trashy thriller novels.

>

>

> I'm also not convinced that values can only be expressed as a simple

list of statements. Someone here came up with a wonderful idea

for a mosaic. I wonder how many new values (why do we have to have

so few???) I might generate by looking through old photographs, through

my Facebook status updates, or through my diary / journal? Even my

emails.Â

>

>

> But nothing would beat experimentation. I could die a reasonably

contented man having never known my true preferences, but having

experimented life in trying to work them out!

>

> I hope future ACT books will come up with more innovative ways of

exploring and enjoying values.Â

>

>

> For a branch of therapy that talks about the meaningless of thoughts -

it seems to spend an awful lot of time talking about them!!!!

>

>

> Cheers, .Â

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: Bill C wcamero@...

> To: ACT_for_the_Public act_for_the_public

> Sent: Wednesday, 15 February 2012, 0:09

> Subject: RE: The Myth of Personal Growth

>

>

> Â

> - I've had the same thought about the ACT values work seeming

like a business model. But I've found that I had to come at my values in

that way to fully get at them. What I've found is that my values are

hard-wired into who I am. Finding them has been a real process of

discovery, rather than deciding what life to pick from a menu.

>

> Interestingly, I've discovered my values more by understanding when

I'm uncomfortable with the way I'm living my life. I think that might be

what was saying.Â

>

> Bill

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> To: ACT_for_the_Public

> From: oscar.robson@...

> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 18:11:25 +0000

> Subject: Re: The Myth of Personal Growth

>

> Â

>

>

> Amen to that, Bill.Â

> Â

> Values lead us on the life we wish to lead. Everything else tries

to make us as comfortable and connected as possible whilst living it.

> Â

> I actually feel that the values and goals work is rather

under-developed within ACT. It feels like a business model for

living life: set a business philosophy, and some nice quarterly targets,

and off you go. I think that there may be some other ways of

setting values and help for achieving what you want to achieve.Â

> Â

> x.

>

> From: Bill C wcamero@...

> To: ACT_for_the_Public act_for_the_public

> Sent: Tuesday, 14 February 2012, 16:39

> Subject: RE: The Myth of Personal Growth

>

>

> Â

> Thanks .

>

> Your story is a powerful one about the importance of really doing the

values work and then taking committed action towards those values. It's

so easy to mistake our myths for real values. And it's also so easy to

let those myths carry us in a direction so different from where we

really want to go.

>

> It's also easy to use " mindfulness " (defusion, acceptance, contact

with the present and observing self) as a substitute for doing the hard

values work and taking committed action.

>

> It's interesting to me that the values stuff is towards the end of

many ACT books, when the values work might be the key to ending a

struggle.

>

> I read somewhere that values and committed action are the most

important components of ACT and that the mindfulness components add to

the experience.

>

> I'm going to revisit my values to see if there are any myths lurking.

>

> Bill

>

> To: ACT_for_the_Public

> From: garysmeade@...

> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 18:49:18 +1000

> Subject: The Myth of Personal Growth

>

> Â

> I have been seriously challenging the myths that I have been living

by, and one of the strongest has been the myth of personal growth. Â

This is analogous to the myth of self-esteem that has been

referred to by people such as Russ . Â

>

>

> For a long time I worked under the suspicion that I was inferior and

immature, and if only I could go through some kind of behaviour

modification, I could grow to become so much more fulfilled and happy.

 Personal growth is a topic so very common that websites such as

that of Steve Pavlina attract millions of hits, and movements

such as The Law of Attraction/The Secret tout human potential and

success as being paramount.

>

> When ACT came along and totally confronted and challenged this notion,

I was not ready to hear it, for I had been heavily indoctrinated in a

mindset of hope - firstly hope for an eternal home, and then hope for a

better life here and now through prosperity, success, and health. Â

It was confusing to be told that such hopes were pointless and mere

fantasy, and that techniques of behaviour modification just plain would

not work.

>

> Eventually through much pain and struggle I had to face the

existential truth. Â That firstly I could not live in the notion of a

life after this one. Â And secondly that methods of control would

continue to lead me in circles of frustration. Â There was but one

thing that I could do though that would bring the satisfaction that I so

desperately craved: accept my lot, and chase things of value and

meaning.

>

> So I began a path of finding firstly what I treasured in life. Â

This lead me to music, and its power to move me in ways that nothing

else can. Â I dived into exploring both the local indie music scene,

and finding some artists and albums that I connect so deeply with. Â

Music has been such a source of enrichment that a life without it to me

is currently inconceivable. Â

>

> But yet even music falls short of the fulfilment that comes

from inspiring friendships and social engagement. Â I have been

enjoying the value of friendship immensely, and have had the opportunity

to provide spaces for friendships to develop and nurture, by hosting

Meetup groups in my city. Â It has become my conviction that real,

genuine, and pure friendship is rare, and must be cherished. Â

>

> My attention has been captured now by pursuing a life of meaning and

value. Â The myth of personal growth states that a person's life can

be measured - yet how many brilliant minds have come and gone whose best

work occurred early in their life, who even in the development of their

ideas went on to actually degrade in meaningful and creative activity?

 The height and zenith of existence is to find the highest and best

meaning in this moment. Â When we have a cherished focus, and find

ourselves captured in that, we can find that level of fulfilment we so

desperately crave.

>

> Yet not every moment will lend us such inspiration. Â For life will

serve dishes randomly, sometimes exquisite, sometimes repulsive. Â It

is our values and our healthy appreciation of reality that will save us

from the grip of despair. Â At least now I can say, if this is all

there is, then let me do my best, let go of my unrealistic expectations,

and face life's every movement resisting nothing, regretting nothing,

accepting everything just as it is.

>

>

>