Re: Building Friendships

[Guest guest]

Walk out of the computer and into your life in small ways.

>

>

>

> When those religious women came to my door and spoke to me with such kindness,

I was so filled with emotion that I said it was ok for them to come back. They

gave me a time and a date. In anticipation of their visit, I did all my

domestics so they would feel comfortable when I invited them in. I even went to

the supermarket and bought stuff that I could offer them. The time came and went

and after 2 hours I'd given up on them. Five hours after their declared time

they knocked on my door. I told them I wasn't interested in seeing them at all

(what's the point, more disappointment). I care too much.

>

> So someone I know called and invited me to go out last night with a group of

people. I was reluctant but (thinking of my values and how important they are to

me), I said yes. I tried not to anticipate this one, to take it without

expectation and lucky I did, because he never even turned up or called. Turns

out he'd left a message a couple of days ago (I only got it this morning) and he

said, " I'll probably need a place to crash and yours is as good as any " . I guess

he got a better offer. I want to pretend I don't care, then it bypasses all the

language, the damaging/painful self-conceptualisations.

>

> I have been in my job now for about five months and seem to `get along' with

everyone but have been unable to make any real connection (other than work

related stuff). Two of the clients express feeling this connection with me. This

just seems to be the story of my life from dot to spot. The drug addicts like

me, the intellectually impaired like me but anyone with an inkling of

intelligence can see right through me and avoid. The moment my daughter began to

form her frontal lobe, she too gained enough intelligence to get out, get away.

>

> I really enjoy the ACT people but have no way into that community either

because I'm not a student, professional or business person. I can't see that

I'll ever get in-roads there. What's left? Virtual communication...that's it.

>

> I just don't know how to do this relationship stuff. It just leaves my feeling

rotten.

>

> Lou (and my computer)

>

[Guest guest]

Very nice to see you move toward a healthy life-time love. I am there too. I

think there is great power with that attention to remembering who we were/are,

the fullness of what we may otherwise dismiss too easily, especially if busy

numbing up/out. I notice today I really love food, like in a really good way.

All the flavors. I'm glad I can still taste differences, glad I can learn to mix

different things together and just have fun with it. Sounds silly, but I never

really learned to cook. There is a lot I never did because I decided at one

point I couldn't keep up with you.

kind regards,

terry

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > When those religious women came to my door and spoke to me with such

kindness, I was so filled with emotion that I said it was ok for them to come

back. They gave me a time and a date. In anticipation of their visit, I did all

my domestics so they would feel comfortable when I invited them in. I even went

to the supermarket and bought stuff that I could offer them. The time came and

went and after 2 hours I'd given up on them. Five hours after their declared

time they knocked on my door. I told them I wasn't interested in seeing them at

all (what's the point, more disappointment). I care too much.

> > >

> > > So someone I know called and invited me to go out last night with a group

of people. I was reluctant but (thinking of my values and how important they are

to me), I said yes. I tried not to anticipate this one, to take it without

expectation and lucky I did, because he never even turned up or called. Turns

out he'd left a message a couple of days ago (I only got it this morning) and he

said, " I'll probably need a place to crash and yours is as good as any " . I guess

he got a better offer. I want to pretend I don't care, then it bypasses all the

language, the damaging/painful self-conceptualisations.

> > >

> > > I have been in my job now for about five months and seem to `get along'

with everyone but have been unable to make any real connection (other than work

related stuff). Two of the clients express feeling this connection with me. This

just seems to be the story of my life from dot to spot. The drug addicts like

me, the intellectually impaired like me but anyone with an inkling of

intelligence can see right through me and avoid. The moment my daughter began to

form her frontal lobe, she too gained enough intelligence to get out, get away.

> > >

> > > I really enjoy the ACT people but have no way into that community either

because I'm not a student, professional or business person. I can't see that

I'll ever get in-roads there. What's left? Virtual communication...that's it.

> > >

> > > I just don't know how to do this relationship stuff. It just leaves my

feeling rotten.

> > >

> > > Lou (and my computer)

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Lou,Often, when we're coming off one or more substances, it's not the best time to say what is, or isn't "the story of my life". Everything comes back to the fact that what we leaned on before isn't there now, so we're bound to feel pretty deprived generally and project that sense of loss out in all directions. And don't underestimate the substance-starved brain's ability to craft a narrative that forces the conclusion, "therefore, I need a drink/joint etc." It'll do that.Maybe defusion?Best,Jim When those religious women came to my door and spoke to me with such kindness, I was so filled with emotion that I said it was ok for them to come back. They gave me a time and a date. In anticipation of their visit, I did all my domestics so they would feel comfortable when I invited them in. I even went to the supermarket and bought stuff that I could offer them. The time came and went and after 2 hours I'd given up on them. Five hours after their declared time they knocked on my door. I told them I wasn't interested in seeing them at all (what's the point, more disappointment). I care too much. So someone I know called and invited me to go out last night with a group of people. I was reluctant but (thinking of my values and how important they are to me), I said yes. I tried not to anticipate this one, to take it without expectation and lucky I did, because he never even turned up or called. Turns out he'd left a message a couple of days ago (I only got it this morning) and he said, "I'll probably need a place to crash and yours is as good as any". I guess he got a better offer. I want to pretend I don't care, then it bypasses all the language, the damaging/painful self-conceptualisations. I have been in my job now for about five months and seem to `get along' with everyone but have been unable to make any real connection (other than work related stuff). Two of the clients express feeling this connection with me. This just seems to be the story of my life from dot to spot. The drug addicts like me, the intellectually impaired like me but anyone with an inkling of intelligence can see right through me and avoid. The moment my daughter began to form her frontal lobe, she too gained enough intelligence to get out, get away. I really enjoy the ACT people but have no way into that community either because I'm not a student, professional or business person. I can't see that I'll ever get in-roads there. What's left? Virtual communication...that's it. I just don't know how to do this relationship stuff. It just leaves my feeling rotten. Lou (and my computer) Jim Designer | Developerhttp://www.jryanportfolio.com

[Guest guest]

"I suppose it is ok to be selfish sometimes."

It is not selfish to treat yourself sometimes. It is self-caring. Hope you had a great time! Going to a restaurant is something I can seldom afford to indulge in and when I do, I truly enjoy it and savor every bite. I'm trying to eat more mindfully all the time, noticing and relishing the flavors in my mouth.

Good on you for stepping out alone, "embracing what is new and unknown" when others don't answer your call, for whatever reason.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 4:07:53 AMSubject: Re: Building Friendships

So....in the words of others..."...see every fear as presenting a challenge; and see your lack as space to be decorated; as a canvas [(like the nine A4 pages stuck on my wall)] to be painted on..." and...the 'story of my life' was one of nomadic travel and discovery, embracing what is new and unknown, so tonight I go out, without my lovely vibe catching (dancing) pot or uninhibited ugly alcohol. I text my 'friend' but he doesn't answer since just after lunch now (I think I expect too much), I'll go out/it alone, as I have done for years...no problem there, I am accustomed to that (being a stranger in so many cities).

In keeping with Terry's talk of taste, I'll eat in a resturaunt tonight...bugger the expense. Maybe I just need to let the purse go despite the loss to my child. (Seems like such GROSS self-indulgence to me, who will provide for her if I spend it?) OK, past that guilt. Really what I have already is enough for her to make a start at least. I am still alive as well as her so I suppose it is ok to be selfish sometimes.

Good night good people, I wish you all joy and excitement, the fun I intend for tonight.....

Louise

To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Saturday, 18 February 2012 2:32 PMSubject: Re: Building Friendships

Hi Lou, Often, when we're coming off one or more substances, it's not the best time to say what is, or isn't "the story of my life". Everything comes back to the fact that what we leaned on before isn't there now, so we're bound to feel pretty deprived generally and project that sense of loss out in all directions.

And don't underestimate the substance-starved brain's ability to craft a narrative that forces the conclusion, "therefore, I need a drink/joint etc." It'll do that.

Maybe defusion?

Best,

Jim

When those religious women came to my door and spoke to me with such kindness, I was so filled with emotion that I said it was ok for them to come back. They gave me a time and a date. In anticipation of their visit, I did all my domestics so they would feel comfortable when I invited them in. I even went to the supermarket and bought stuff that I could offer them. The time came and went and after 2 hours I'd given up on them. Five hours after their declared time they knocked on my door. I told them I wasn't interested in seeing them at all (what's the point, more disappointment). I care too much.So someone I know called and invited me to go out last night with a group of people. I was reluctant but (thinking of my values and how important they are to me), I said yes. I tried not to anticipate this one, to take it without expectation and lucky I did, because he never even turned up or called. Turns out he'd left a message a couple of days ago (I only got it this morning) and he said, "I'll probably need a place to crash and yours is as good as any". I guess he got a better offer. I want to pretend I don't care, then it bypasses all the language, the damaging/painful self-conceptualisations.I have been in my job now for about five months and seem to `get along' with everyone but have been unable to make any real connection (other than work related stuff). Two of the clients express feeling this connection with me. This just seems to be the story of my life from dot to spot. The drug addicts like me, the intellectually impaired like me but anyone with an inkling of intelligence can see right through me and avoid. The moment my daughter began to form her frontal lobe, she too gained enough intelligence to get out, get away.I really enjoy the ACT people but have no way into that community either because I'm not a student, professional or business person. I can't see that I'll ever get in-roads there. What's left? Virtual communication...that's it.I just don't know how to do this relationship stuff. It just leaves my feeling rotten. Lou (and my computer)

Jim

Designer | Developer

http://www.jryanportfolio.com

[Guest guest]

How very true! Speaking for myself, I can say that when I gave up cigarettes and alcohol, the hardest part was saying "yes I can!" to my mind's insistence that "I can't handle this 'crap of the day' without x or y." Of course, there was much more to it than just saying no; I needed to put things in place that took up the time and space that smoking and drinking formerly occupied.

Mingling with others who are "like-minded" and supportive is so helpful, whether it be a smoking cessation class, AA, Women for Sobriety (the group I attended), or something else. Outside support - face to face support - is really important. An addicted brain, left to support itself in the resolve to quit, simply can't make good decisions for itself after being riddled with addiction, and the substance will win. I am not an expert, but I watch Dr. Drew on TV (who is one) and that is how he lays it out.

When I decided to give up alcohol, I found it critical to plan a different activity for the times I was used to drinking. For years, I had stopped at the liquor store every Friday night on my way home from work- TGIF! I decided to go straight to a movie after work instead. It worked; the unhealthy Friday night habit was replaced with a new, healthy one. Of course, there were slips and falls along the way, but getting right back on track is crucial, and ACT helps me so much with that.

Helena

From: "JAMES P RYAN" <jim.ryangmail>To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 11:02:00 PMSubject: Re: Building Friendships

Hi Lou, Often, when we're coming off one or more substances, it's not the best time to say what is, or isn't "the story of my life". Everything comes back to the fact that what we leaned on before isn't there now, so we're bound to feel pretty deprived generally and project that sense of loss out in all directions.

And don't underestimate the substance-starved brain's ability to craft a narrative that forces the conclusion, "therefore, I need a drink/joint etc." It'll do that.

Maybe defusion?

Best,

Jim

When those religious women came to my door and spoke to me with such kindness, I was so filled with emotion that I said it was ok for them to come back. They gave me a time and a date. In anticipation of their visit, I did all my domestics so they would feel comfortable when I invited them in. I even went to the supermarket and bought stuff that I could offer them. The time came and went and after 2 hours I'd given up on them. Five hours after their declared time they knocked on my door. I told them I wasn't interested in seeing them at all (what's the point, more disappointment). I care too much.So someone I know called and invited me to go out last night with a group of people. I was reluctant but (thinking of my values and how important they are to me), I said yes. I tried not to anticipate this one, to take it without expectation and lucky I did, because he never even turned up or called. Turns out he'd left a message a couple of days ago (I only got it this morning) and he said, "I'll probably need a place to crash and yours is as good as any". I guess he got a better offer. I want to pretend I don't care, then it bypasses all the language, the damaging/painful self-conceptualisations.I have been in my job now for about five months and seem to `get along' with everyone but have been unable to make any real connection (other than work related stuff). Two of the clients express feeling this connection with me. This just seems to be the story of my life from dot to spot. The drug addicts like me, the intellectually impaired like me but anyone with an inkling of intelligence can see right through me and avoid. The moment my daughter began to form her frontal lobe, she too gained enough intelligence to get out, get away.I really enjoy the ACT people but have no way into that community either because I'm not a student, professional or business person. I can't see that I'll ever get in-roads there. What's left? Virtual communication...that's it.I just don't know how to do this relationship stuff. It just leaves my feeling rotten. Lou (and my computer)

Jim

Designer | Developer

http://www.jryanportfolio.com

[Guest guest]

And, in the words of (from his blog):

i salute youand i celebrate your excellenceand admire your perspiration

Thank you , for sharing your blog with us. I find it so inspirational.

http://3dgeofsanity.wordpress.com/

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 4:07:53 AMSubject: Re: Building Friendships

So....in the words of others..."...see every fear as presenting a challenge; and see your lack as space to be decorated; as a canvas [(like the nine A4 pages stuck on my wall)] to be painted on..." and...the 'story of my life' was one of nomadic travel and discovery, embracing what is new and unknown, so tonight I go out, without my lovely vibe catching (dancing) pot or uninhibited ugly alcohol. I text my 'friend' but he doesn't answer since just after lunch now (I think I expect too much), I'll go out/it alone, as I have done for years...no problem there, I am accustomed to that (being a stranger in so many cities).

In keeping with Terry's talk of taste, I'll eat in a resturaunt tonight...bugger the expense. Maybe I just need to let the purse go despite the loss to my child. (Seems like such GROSS self-indulgence to me, who will provide for her if I spend it?) OK, past that guilt. Really what I have already is enough for her to make a start at least. I am still alive as well as her so I suppose it is ok to be selfish sometimes.

Good night good people, I wish you all joy and excitement, the fun I intend for tonight.....

Louise

To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Saturday, 18 February 2012 2:32 PMSubject: Re: Building Friendships

Hi Lou, Often, when we're coming off one or more substances, it's not the best time to say what is, or isn't "the story of my life". Everything comes back to the fact that what we leaned on before isn't there now, so we're bound to feel pretty deprived generally and project that sense of loss out in all directions.

And don't underestimate the substance-starved brain's ability to craft a narrative that forces the conclusion, "therefore, I need a drink/joint etc." It'll do that.

Maybe defusion?

Best,

Jim

When those religious women came to my door and spoke to me with such kindness, I was so filled with emotion that I said it was ok for them to come back. They gave me a time and a date. In anticipation of their visit, I did all my domestics so they would feel comfortable when I invited them in. I even went to the supermarket and bought stuff that I could offer them. The time came and went and after 2 hours I'd given up on them. Five hours after their declared time they knocked on my door. I told them I wasn't interested in seeing them at all (what's the point, more disappointment). I care too much.So someone I know called and invited me to go out last night with a group of people. I was reluctant but (thinking of my values and how important they are to me), I said yes. I tried not to anticipate this one, to take it without expectation and lucky I did, because he never even turned up or called. Turns out he'd left a message a couple of days ago (I only got it this morning) and he said, "I'll probably need a place to crash and yours is as good as any". I guess he got a better offer. I want to pretend I don't care, then it bypasses all the language, the damaging/painful self-conceptualisations.I have been in my job now for about five months and seem to `get along' with everyone but have been unable to make any real connection (other than work related stuff). Two of the clients express feeling this connection with me. This just seems to be the story of my life from dot to spot. The drug addicts like me, the intellectually impaired like me but anyone with an inkling of intelligence can see right through me and avoid. The moment my daughter began to form her frontal lobe, she too gained enough intelligence to get out, get away.I really enjoy the ACT people but have no way into that community either because I'm not a student, professional or business person. I can't see that I'll ever get in-roads there. What's left? Virtual communication...that's it.I just don't know how to do this relationship stuff. It just leaves my feeling rotten. Lou (and my computer)

Jim

Designer | Developer

http://www.jryanportfolio.com

[Guest guest]

I also have difficulties forming friendships. The key for me is learning to love

myself. As I do this, I am finding that I can also love others for who they are

and learn to invite them into my life. This takes work on my part and opens

myself up to taking risks and being hurt. But I can only feel love by also

feeling pain. When I isolate, my chances at both are greatly diminished. And I

don't have anyone to share my life with.

Blessings!

Action and Values = JOY!!!

Love your neighbor as yourself - Mark 12:31

When those religious women came to my door and spoke to me with such kindness, I

was so filled with emotion that I said it was ok for them to come back. They

gave me a time and a date. In anticipation of their visit, I did all my

domestics so they would feel comfortable when I invited them in. I even went to

the supermarket and bought stuff that I could offer them. The time came and went

and after 2 hours I'd given up on them. Five hours after their declared time

they knocked on my door. I told them I wasn't interested in seeing them at all

(what's the point, more disappointment) . I care too much.

So someone I know called and invited me to go out last night with a group of

people. I was reluctant but (thinking of my values and how important they are to

me), I said yes. I tried not to anticipate this one, to take it without

expectation and lucky I did, because he never even turned up or called. Turns

out he'd left a message a couple of days ago (I only got it this morning) and he

said, " I'll probably need a place to crash and yours is as good as any " . I guess

he got a better offer. I want to pretend I don't care, then it bypasses all the

language, the damaging/painful self-conceptualisat ions.

I have been in my job now for about five months and seem to `get along' with

everyone but have been unable to make any real connection (other than work

related stuff). Two of the clients express feeling this connection with me. This

just seems to be the story of my life from dot to spot. The drug addicts like

me, the intellectually impaired like me but anyone with an inkling of

intelligence can see right through me and avoid. The moment my daughter began to

form her frontal lobe, she too gained enough intelligence to get out, get away.

I really enjoy the ACT people but have no way into that community either because

I'm not a student, professional or business person. I can't see that I'll ever

get in-roads there. What's left? Virtual communication. ..that's it.

I just don't know how to do this relationship stuff. It just leaves my feeling

rotten.

Lou (and my computer)

[Guest guest]

Don't want to put you on the spot, but I'm confused. I thought you recently

mentioned you still drink, no?.

kind regards,

Terry

>

>

>

>  

>

>

>

>

> When those religious women came to my door and spoke to me with such kindness,

I was so filled with emotion that I said it was ok for them to come back. They

gave me a time and a date. In anticipation of their visit, I did all my

domestics so they would feel comfortable when I invited them in. I even went to

the supermarket and bought stuff that I could offer them. The time came and went

and after 2 hours I'd given up on them. Five hours after their declared time

they knocked on my door. I told them I wasn't interested in seeing them at all

(what's the point, more disappointment). I care too much.

>

> So someone I know called and invited me to go out last night with a group of

people. I was reluctant but (thinking of my values and how important they are to

me), I said yes. I tried not to anticipate this one, to take it without

expectation and lucky I did, because he never even turned up or called. Turns

out he'd left a message a couple of days ago (I only got it this morning) and he

said, " I'll probably need a place to crash and yours is as good as any " . I guess

he got a better offer. I want to pretend I don't care, then it bypasses all the

language, the damaging/painful self-conceptualisations.

>

> I have been in my job now for about five months and seem to `get along' with

everyone but have been unable to make any real connection (other than work

related stuff). Two of the clients express feeling this connection with me. This

just seems to be the story of my life from dot to spot. The drug addicts like

me, the intellectually impaired like me but anyone with an inkling of

intelligence can see right through me and avoid. The moment my daughter began to

form her frontal lobe, she too gained enough intelligence to get out, get away.

>

> I really enjoy the ACT people but have no way into that community either

because I'm not a student, professional or business person. I can't see that

I'll ever get in-roads there. What's left? Virtual communication...that's it.

>

> I just don't know how to do this relationship stuff. It just leaves my feeling

rotten.

>

> Lou (and my computer)

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Jim

> Designer | Developer

>

> http://www. jryanportfolio .com

>

[Guest guest]

Jim,

Please speak from your own experience, use the word I more, if you would. It's a

selfish request, but there you have it. What you say here for example is really

again not my experience (some is, a lot isn't), and so to assume it's every

addict's experience and go on with a lecture about what we do or don't do is

just well..assuming a bit much IMHO. For example you asked me to elaborate on

the discomfort I noted (as a minor thing) in some of what I see in the 12-Step

culture. Might you share your experience with this? Or perhaps more as to why

you even asked for elaboration? That is the kind of thing I'm talking about.

Thanks in advance,

terry

>

> >

> >

> > When those religious women came to my door and spoke to me with such

> > kindness, I was so filled with emotion that I said it was ok for

> > them to come back. They gave me a time and a date. In anticipation

> > of their visit, I did all my domestics so they would feel

> > comfortable when I invited them in. I even went to the supermarket

> > and bought stuff that I could offer them. The time came and went and

> > after 2 hours I'd given up on them. Five hours after their declared

> > time they knocked on my door. I told them I wasn't interested in

> > seeing them at all (what's the point, more disappointment). I care

> > too much.

> >

> > So someone I know called and invited me to go out last night with a

> > group of people. I was reluctant but (thinking of my values and how

> > important they are to me), I said yes. I tried not to anticipate

> > this one, to take it without expectation and lucky I did, because he

> > never even turned up or called. Turns out he'd left a message a

> > couple of days ago (I only got it this morning) and he said, " I'll

> > probably need a place to crash and yours is as good as any " . I guess

> > he got a better offer. I want to pretend I don't care, then it

> > bypasses all the language, the damaging/painful self-

> > conceptualisations.

> >

> > I have been in my job now for about five months and seem to `get

> > along' with everyone but have been unable to make any real

> > connection (other than work related stuff). Two of the clients

> > express feeling this connection with me. This just seems to be the

> > story of my life from dot to spot. The drug addicts like me, the

> > intellectually impaired like me but anyone with an inkling of

> > intelligence can see right through me and avoid. The moment my

> > daughter began to form her frontal lobe, she too gained enough

> > intelligence to get out, get away.

> >

> > I really enjoy the ACT people but have no way into that community

> > either because I'm not a student, professional or business person. I

> > can't see that I'll ever get in-roads there. What's left? Virtual

> > communication...that's it.

> >

> > I just don't know how to do this relationship stuff. It just leaves

> > my feeling rotten.

> >

> > Lou (and my computer)

> >

> >

>

> Jim

> Designer | Developer

>

> http://www.jryanportfolio.com

>

[Guest guest]

, thank you for your kind words.  It was the same thing that was saying - self-love - that inspired the words of adoration.  Up until this week I had only thought of self-love as a crude thing, something which seems strange and egotistical.......and then a voice arose within saying pretty much the essence of what I wrote.  I have read elsewhere someone suggesting that you must be your best friend, and it makes so much sense - you can never rely fully on another human being to be there for you always, and you can never get away from yourself.  It is the highest of self-acceptance to pour love towards the person you are - in all your humanity, frailty, and heartache.  Yesterday I realized that I can no longer consider myself insecure.  Awkward, sometimes sad, sometimes frustrated, sometimes lonely - but not insecure - because I don't judge any of these " negative " aspects as being somehow wrong.  Getting to this place took a long time, you can read all the books and yet don't get it, and then one day just get it.  The shift, the click happens and you think, wow why didn't I see that before?  Yet transformation is a daily process, not a sudden momentous event.  So the story continues to unfold.

 

I also have difficulties forming friendships. The key for me is learning to love myself. As I do this, I am finding that I can also love others for who they are and learn to invite them into my life. This takes work on my part and opens myself up to taking risks and being hurt. But I can only feel love by also feeling pain. When I isolate, my chances at both are greatly diminished. And I don't have anyone to share my life with.

Blessings!

Action and Values = JOY!!!

Love your neighbor as yourself - Mark 12:31

When those religious women came to my door and spoke to me with such kindness, I was so filled with emotion that I said it was ok for them to come back. They gave me a time and a date. In anticipation of their visit, I did all my domestics so they would feel comfortable when I invited them in. I even went to the supermarket and bought stuff that I could offer them. The time came and went and after 2 hours I'd given up on them. Five hours after their declared time they knocked on my door. I told them I wasn't interested in seeing them at all (what's the point, more disappointment) . I care too much.

So someone I know called and invited me to go out last night with a group of people. I was reluctant but (thinking of my values and how important they are to me), I said yes. I tried not to anticipate this one, to take it without expectation and lucky I did, because he never even turned up or called. Turns out he'd left a message a couple of days ago (I only got it this morning) and he said, " I'll probably need a place to crash and yours is as good as any " . I guess he got a better offer. I want to pretend I don't care, then it bypasses all the language, the damaging/painful self-conceptualisat ions.

I have been in my job now for about five months and seem to `get along' with everyone but have been unable to make any real connection (other than work related stuff). Two of the clients express feeling this connection with me. This just seems to be the story of my life from dot to spot. The drug addicts like me, the intellectually impaired like me but anyone with an inkling of intelligence can see right through me and avoid. The moment my daughter began to form her frontal lobe, she too gained enough intelligence to get out, get away.

I really enjoy the ACT people but have no way into that community either because I'm not a student, professional or business person. I can't see that I'll ever get in-roads there. What's left? Virtual communication. ..that's it.

I just don't know how to do this relationship stuff. It just leaves my feeling rotten.

Lou (and my computer)

[Guest guest]

I quit alcohol completely for about year. Now I only drink socially (last time was Christmas day) and only a little wine. I have sworn off drinking at home alone because I was doing that to self- medicate and it didn't work. I don't have many social occasions in my life right now, so very few opportunities to drink, based on my new rule of drinking socially only.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 2:09:19 PMSubject: Re: Building Friendships

Don't want to put you on the spot, but I'm confused. I thought you recently mentioned you still drink, no?.kind regards,Terry > > > > Â > > > > > When those religious women came to my door and spoke to me with such kindness, I was so filled with emotion that I said it was ok for them to come back. They gave me a time and a date. In anticipation of their visit, I did all my domestics so they would feel comfortable when I invited them in. I even went to the supermarket and bought stuff that I could offer them. The time came and went and after 2 hours I'd given up on them. Five hours after their declared time they knocked on my door. I told them I wasn't interested in seeing them at all (what's the point, more disappointment). I care too much. > > So someone I know called and invited me to go out last night with a group of people. I was reluctant but (thinking of my values and how important they are to me), I said yes. I tried not to anticipate this one, to take it without expectation and lucky I did, because he never even turned up or called. Turns out he'd left a message a couple of days ago (I only got it this morning) and he said, "I'll probably need a place to crash and yours is as good as any". I guess he got a better offer. I want to pretend I don't care, then it bypasses all the language, the damaging/painful self-conceptualisations. > > I have been in my job now for about five months and seem to `get along' with everyone but have been unable to make any real connection (other than work related stuff). Two of the clients express feeling this connection with me. This just seems to be the story of my life from dot to spot. The drug addicts like me, the intellectually impaired like me but anyone with an inkling of intelligence can see right through me and avoid. The moment my daughter began to form her frontal lobe, she too gained enough intelligence to get out, get away. > > I really enjoy the ACT people but have no way into that community either because I'm not a student, professional or business person. I can't see that I'll ever get in-roads there. What's left? Virtual communication...that's it. > > I just don't know how to do this relationship stuff. It just leaves my feeling rotten. > > Lou (and my computer) > > > > > > > > > Jim > Designer | Developer > > http://www. jryanportfolio .com>

[Guest guest]

Terry, what Jim wrote about addiction was spot on, IMO, and did not seem like a lecture to me. Using the collective "we" instead of "I" seems appropriate as well since addiction has much in common among people. Why do you need to question the motivation behind the questions people ask? Does that not get us bogged down into a lot of "back and forth" that isn't useful?

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 2:16:51 PMSubject: Re: Building Friendships

Jim,Please speak from your own experience, use the word I more, if you would. It's a selfish request, but there you have it. What you say here for example is really again not my experience (some is, a lot isn't), and so to assume it's every addict's experience and go on with a lecture about what we do or don't do is just well..assuming a bit much IMHO. For example you asked me to elaborate on the discomfort I noted (as a minor thing) in some of what I see in the 12-Step culture. Might you share your experience with this? Or perhaps more as to why you even asked for elaboration? That is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Thanks in advance,terry> > >> >> > When those religious women came to my door and spoke to me with such > > kindness, I was so filled with emotion that I said it was ok for > > them to come back. They gave me a time and a date. In anticipation > > of their visit, I did all my domestics so they would feel > > comfortable when I invited them in. I even went to the supermarket > > and bought stuff that I could offer them. The time came and went and > > after 2 hours I'd given up on them. Five hours after their declared > > time they knocked on my door. I told them I wasn't interested in > > seeing them at all (what's the point, more disappointment). I care > > too much.> >> > So someone I know called and invited me to go out last night with a > > group of people. I was reluctant but (thinking of my values and how > > important they are to me), I said yes. I tried not to anticipate > > this one, to take it without expectation and lucky I did, because he > > never even turned up or called. Turns out he'd left a message a > > couple of days ago (I only got it this morning) and he said, "I'll > > probably need a place to crash and yours is as good as any". I guess > > he got a better offer. I want to pretend I don't care, then it > > bypasses all the language, the damaging/painful self- > > conceptualisations.> >> > I have been in my job now for about five months and seem to `get > > along' with everyone but have been unable to make any real > > connection (other than work related stuff). Two of the clients > > express feeling this connection with me. This just seems to be the > > story of my life from dot to spot. The drug addicts like me, the > > intellectually impaired like me but anyone with an inkling of > > intelligence can see right through me and avoid. The moment my > > daughter began to form her frontal lobe, she too gained enough > > intelligence to get out, get away.> >> > I really enjoy the ACT people but have no way into that community > > either because I'm not a student, professional or business person. I > > can't see that I'll ever get in-roads there. What's left? Virtual > > communication...that's it.> >> > I just don't know how to do this relationship stuff. It just leaves > > my feeling rotten.> >> > Lou (and my computer)> >> > > > Jim > Designer | Developer> > http://www.jryanportfolio.com>

[Guest guest]

Hi I have long been convinced that self love is the main key in psychological healing. A very prominent psychiatrist said if he could get his patients to love themselves it would half his caseload. Loving yourself takes the idea of acceptance to a much deeper level. There is perhaps what would serve as a methodology for this. Self parenting. Googling that will bring up the necessary information. Before coming to AC T a lot of sufferers including myself would have beaten up on themselves horribly and so inflicted deep psychological wounds that self parenting would heal as well as that self parenting would teach us to be compassionate towards ourselves. Best wishes from your friend FrancisTo: ACT_for_the_Public From: garysmeade@...Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 08:31:43 +1000Subject: Re: Re: Building Friendships

, thank you for your kind words. It was the same thing that was saying - self-love - that inspired the words of adoration. Up until this week I had only thought of self-love as a crude thing, something which seems strange and egotistical.......and then a voice arose within saying pretty much the essence of what I wrote. I have read elsewhere someone suggesting that you must be your best friend, and it makes so much sense - you can never rely fully on another human being to be there for you always, and you can never get away from yourself. It is the highest of self-acceptance to pour love towards the person you are - in all your humanity, frailty, and heartache. Yesterday I realized that I can no longer consider myself insecure. Awkward, sometimes sad, sometimes frustrated, sometimes lonely - but not insecure - because I don't judge any of these "negative" aspects as being somehow wrong. Getting to this place took a long time, you can read all the books and yet don't get it, and then one day just get it. The shift, the click happens and you think, wow why didn't I see that before? Yet transformation is a daily process, not a sudden momentous event. So the story continues to unfold.

I also have difficulties forming friendships. The key for me is learning to love myself. As I do this, I am finding that I can also love others for who they are and learn to invite them into my life. This takes work on my part and opens myself up to taking risks and being hurt. But I can only feel love by also feeling pain. When I isolate, my chances at both are greatly diminished. And I don't have anyone to share my life with.

Blessings!

Action and Values = JOY!!!

Love your neighbor as yourself - Mark 12:31

When those religious women came to my door and spoke to me with such kindness, I was so filled with emotion that I said it was ok for them to come back. They gave me a time and a date. In anticipation of their visit, I did all my domestics so they would feel comfortable when I invited them in. I even went to the supermarket and bought stuff that I could offer them. The time came and went and after 2 hours I'd given up on them. Five hours after their declared time they knocked on my door. I told them I wasn't interested in seeing them at all (what's the point, more disappointment) . I care too much.

So someone I know called and invited me to go out last night with a group of people. I was reluctant but (thinking of my values and how important they are to me), I said yes. I tried not to anticipate this one, to take it without expectation and lucky I did, because he never even turned up or called. Turns out he'd left a message a couple of days ago (I only got it this morning) and he said, "I'll probably need a place to crash and yours is as good as any". I guess he got a better offer. I want to pretend I don't care, then it bypasses all the language, the damaging/painful self-conceptualisat ions.

I have been in my job now for about five months and seem to `get along' with everyone but have been unable to make any real connection (other than work related stuff). Two of the clients express feeling this connection with me. This just seems to be the story of my life from dot to spot. The drug addicts like me, the intellectually impaired like me but anyone with an inkling of intelligence can see right through me and avoid. The moment my daughter began to form her frontal lobe, she too gained enough intelligence to get out, get away.

I really enjoy the ACT people but have no way into that community either because I'm not a student, professional or business person. I can't see that I'll ever get in-roads there. What's left? Virtual communication. ..that's it.

I just don't know how to do this relationship stuff. It just leaves my feeling rotten.

Lou (and my computer)

[Guest guest]

I will say you puzzle me. You are the one who asked this person to back off in

his assuming and directing to call A.A.,providing instructions on how to

do same, and sharing how A.A. didn't work for you. In any case, I'm not here in

this community to debate content of who said what, vote on whether or not it is

" spot on " , written well, good for a blog or a talk or whatever. Maybe you are.

I can only say--as an addict, that's true for me, this has worked for me. That's

all that is honest for me today.

Clumsy as it may have been worded, this is a request to share more honestly from

here/now personal experience (for all of us, really) here now such as where you

are today with ACT, with addiction and move away from lecture mode, therapy

mode, assuming authority on subjects..just balance it out some. Is that asking

too much? Maybe so.

By the way, re: your concern of back and forth..not sure what that means, but

I'd take that any day over folks essentially talking with themselves here, or

maybe exploiting this group for purposes that are strictly selfish.

And you know, the question was one to him, not you. So he can answer if he

chooses or not. It was more of a noticing on my part something about where we

put our attention, what we choose to share here and in life and as important,

what we leave out.

I'm feeling a lot of sadness at how full of it I've been, how dishonest language

and memory can be... I've left so much out of my story and have looked to the

internet, to therapists and so forth to further be " right " about my deceit. Wow.

So not okay today.

And I'm so grateful I can see that today and be honest today, and make real life

friendships in real life meetings with real people who so courageously and

honestly share their experience-- with larger love/intention to create an

opening for themselves and everyone there-- to grow and move forward, keep

coming back, are there for me in ways that blow me out of the water.

Peace to you on your journey, Helena.

terry

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > When those religious women came to my door and spoke to me with such

> > > kindness, I was so filled with emotion that I said it was ok for

> > > them to come back. They gave me a time and a date. In anticipation

> > > of their visit, I did all my domestics so they would feel

> > > comfortable when I invited them in. I even went to the supermarket

> > > and bought stuff that I could offer them. The time came and went and

> > > after 2 hours I'd given up on them. Five hours after their declared

> > > time they knocked on my door. I told them I wasn't interested in

> > > seeing them at all (what's the point, more disappointment). I care

> > > too much.

> > >

> > > So someone I know called and invited me to go out last night with a

> > > group of people. I was reluctant but (thinking of my values and how

> > > important they are to me), I said yes. I tried not to anticipate

> > > this one, to take it without expectation and lucky I did, because he

> > > never even turned up or called. Turns out he'd left a message a

> > > couple of days ago (I only got it this morning) and he said, " I'll

> > > probably need a place to crash and yours is as good as any " . I guess

> > > he got a better offer. I want to pretend I don't care, then it

> > > bypasses all the language, the damaging/painful self-

> > > conceptualisations.

> > >

> > > I have been in my job now for about five months and seem to `get

> > > along' with everyone but have been unable to make any real

> > > connection (other than work related stuff). Two of the clients

> > > express feeling this connection with me. This just seems to be the

> > > story of my life from dot to spot. The drug addicts like me, the

> > > intellectually impaired like me but anyone with an inkling of

> > > intelligence can see right through me and avoid. The moment my

> > > daughter began to form her frontal lobe, she too gained enough

> > > intelligence to get out, get away.

> > >

> > > I really enjoy the ACT people but have no way into that community

> > > either because I'm not a student, professional or business person. I

> > > can't see that I'll ever get in-roads there. What's left? Virtual

> > > communication...that's it.

> > >

> > > I just don't know how to do this relationship stuff. It just leaves

> > > my feeling rotten.

> > >

> > > Lou (and my computer)

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Jim

> > Designer | Developer

> >

> > http://www.jryanportfolio.com

> >

>

[Guest guest]

About a year is a nice chunk of time.I don't think I'd like to flirt with only

drink here and there and other such rules, allowances, since I don't need

alcohol anyway. That feels like too much energy/struggle. I'm happy today to

just let it go altogether. Congrats as you move forward. I hope you'll share

more how it's better for you, out of that " hell " you referred to the other day.

I like to hear people's experience.

kind regards,

terry

> >

> >

> >

> >  

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > When those religious women came to my door and spoke to me with such

kindness, I was so filled with emotion that I said it was ok for them to come

back. They gave me a time and a date. In anticipation of their visit, I did all

my domestics so they would feel comfortable when I invited them in. I even went

to the supermarket and bought stuff that I could offer them. The time came and

went and after 2 hours I'd given up on them. Five hours after their declared

time they knocked on my door. I told them I wasn't interested in seeing them at

all (what's the point, more disappointment). I care too much.

> >

> > So someone I know called and invited me to go out last night with a group of

people. I was reluctant but (thinking of my values and how important they are to

me), I said yes. I tried not to anticipate this one, to take it without

expectation and lucky I did, because he never even turned up or called. Turns

out he'd left a message a couple of days ago (I only got it this morning) and he

said, " I'll probably need a place to crash and yours is as good as any " . I guess

he got a better offer. I want to pretend I don't care, then it bypasses all the

language, the damaging/painful self-conceptualisations.

> >

> > I have been in my job now for about five months and seem to `get along' with

everyone but have been unable to make any real connection (other than work

related stuff). Two of the clients express feeling this connection with me. This

just seems to be the story of my life from dot to spot. The drug addicts like

me, the intellectually impaired like me but anyone with an inkling of

intelligence can see right through me and avoid. The moment my daughter began to

form her frontal lobe, she too gained enough intelligence to get out, get away.

> >

> > I really enjoy the ACT people but have no way into that community either

because I'm not a student, professional or business person. I can't see that

I'll ever get in-roads there. What's left? Virtual communication...that's it.

> >

> > I just don't know how to do this relationship stuff. It just leaves my

feeling rotten.

> >

> > Lou (and my computer)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Jim

> > Designer | Developer

> >

> > http://www. jryanportfolio .com

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The thing is, there is no energy or struggle involved for me with occasional social drinking. If there were, I wouldn't do it.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 1:43:14 PMSubject: Re: Building Friendships

About a year is a nice chunk of time.I don't think I'd like to flirt with only drink here and there and other such rules, allowances, since I don't need alcohol anyway. That feels like too much energy/struggle. I'm happy today to just let it go altogether. Congrats as you move forward. I hope you'll share more how it's better for you, out of that "hell" you referred to the other day. I like to hear people's experience. kind regards,terry > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > When those religious women came to my door and spoke to me with such kindness, I was so filled with emotion that I said it was ok for them to come back. They gave me a time and a date. In anticipation of their visit, I did all my domestics so they would feel comfortable when I invited them in. I even went to the supermarket and bought stuff that I could offer them. The time came and went and after 2 hours I'd given up on them. Five hours after their declared time they knocked on my door. I told them I wasn't interested in seeing them at all (what's the point, more disappointment). I care too much. > > > > So someone I know called and invited me to go out last night with a group of people. I was reluctant but (thinking of my values and how important they are to me), I said yes. I tried not to anticipate this one, to take it without expectation and lucky I did, because he never even turned up or called. Turns out he'd left a message a couple of days ago (I only got it this morning) and he said, "I'll probably need a place to crash and yours is as good as any". I guess he got a better offer. I want to pretend I don't care, then it bypasses all the language, the damaging/painful self-conceptualisations. > > > > I have been in my job now for about five months and seem to `get along' with everyone but have been unable to make any real connection (other than work related stuff). Two of the clients express feeling this connection with me. This just seems to be the story of my life from dot to spot. The drug addicts like me, the intellectually impaired like me but anyone with an inkling of intelligence can see right through me and avoid. The moment my daughter began to form her frontal lobe, she too gained enough intelligence to get out, get away. > > > > I really enjoy the ACT people but have no way into that community either because I'm not a student, professional or business person. I can't see that I'll ever get in-roads there. What's left? Virtual communication...that's it. > > > > I just don't know how to do this relationship stuff. It just leaves my feeling rotten. > > > > Lou (and my computer) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jim > > Designer | Developer > > > > http://www. jryanportfolio .com > >>

[Guest guest]

You puzzle me as well. Let's just leave it at that.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 1:29:39 PMSubject: Re: Building Friendships

I will say you puzzle me. You are the one who asked this person to back off in his assuming and directing to call A.A.,providing instructions on how to do same, and sharing how A.A. didn't work for you. In any case, I'm not here in this community to debate content of who said what, vote on whether or not it is "spot on", written well, good for a blog or a talk or whatever. Maybe you are. I can only say--as an addict, that's true for me, this has worked for me. That's all that is honest for me today.Clumsy as it may have been worded, this is a request to share more honestly from here/now personal experience (for all of us, really) here now such as where you are today with ACT, with addiction and move away from lecture mode, therapy mode, assuming authority on subjects..just balance it out some. Is that asking too much? Maybe so.By the way, re: your concern of back and forth..not sure what that means, but I'd take that any day over folks essentially talking with themselves here, or maybe exploiting this group for purposes that are strictly selfish.And you know, the question was one to him, not you. So he can answer if he chooses or not. It was more of a noticing on my part something about where we put our attention, what we choose to share here and in life and as important, what we leave out. I'm feeling a lot of sadness at how full of it I've been, how dishonest language and memory can be... I've left so much out of my story and have looked to the internet, to therapists and so forth to further be "right" about my deceit. Wow. So not okay today.And I'm so grateful I can see that today and be honest today, and make real life friendships in real life meetings with real people who so courageously and honestly share their experience-- with larger love/intention to create an opening for themselves and everyone there-- to grow and move forward, keep coming back, are there for me in ways that blow me out of the water. Peace to you on your journey, Helena.terry > > > > > > > > > > > When those religious women came to my door and spoke to me with such > > > kindness, I was so filled with emotion that I said it was ok for > > > them to come back. They gave me a time and a date. In anticipation > > > of their visit, I did all my domestics so they would feel > > > comfortable when I invited them in. I even went to the supermarket > > > and bought stuff that I could offer them. The time came and went and > > > after 2 hours I'd given up on them. Five hours after their declared > > > time they knocked on my door. I told them I wasn't interested in > > > seeing them at all (what's the point, more disappointment). I care > > > too much. > > > > > > So someone I know called and invited me to go out last night with a > > > group of people. I was reluctant but (thinking of my values and how > > > important they are to me), I said yes. I tried not to anticipate > > > this one, to take it without expectation and lucky I did, because he > > > never even turned up or called. Turns out he'd left a message a > > > couple of days ago (I only got it this morning) and he said, "I'll > > > probably need a place to crash and yours is as good as any". I guess > > > he got a better offer. I want to pretend I don't care, then it > > > bypasses all the language, the damaging/painful self- > > > conceptualisations. > > > > > > I have been in my job now for about five months and seem to `get > > > along' with everyone but have been unable to make any real > > > connection (other than work related stuff). Two of the clients > > > express feeling this connection with me. This just seems to be the > > > story of my life from dot to spot. The drug addicts like me, the > > > intellectually impaired like me but anyone with an inkling of > > > intelligence can see right through me and avoid. The moment my > > > daughter began to form her frontal lobe, she too gained enough > > > intelligence to get out, get away. > > > > > > I really enjoy the ACT people but have no way into that community > > > either because I'm not a student, professional or business person. I > > > can't see that I'll ever get in-roads there. What's left? Virtual > > > communication...that's it. > > > > > > I just don't know how to do this relationship stuff. It just leaves > > > my feeling rotten. > > > > > > Lou (and my computer) > > > > > > > > > > Jim > > Designer | Developer > > > > http://www.jryanportfolio.com > >>

[Guest guest]

"I hope you'll share more how it's better for you, out of that "hell" you referred to the other day."

Terry, I don't recall that. Please refresh my memory.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 2:07:05 PMSubject: Re: Re: Building Friendships

The thing is, there is no energy or struggle involved for me with occasional social drinking. If there were, I wouldn't do it.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 1:43:14 PMSubject: Re: Building Friendships

About a year is a nice chunk of time.I don't think I'd like to flirt with only drink here and there and other such rules, allowances, since I don't need alcohol anyway. That feels like too much energy/struggle. I'm happy today to just let it go altogether. Congrats as you move forward. I hope you'll share more how it's better for you, out of that "hell" you referred to the other day. I like to hear people's experience. kind regards,terry > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > When those religious women came to my door and spoke to me with such kindness, I was so filled with emotion that I said it was ok for them to come back. They gave me a time and a date. In anticipation of their visit, I did all my domestics so they would feel comfortable when I invited them in. I even went to the supermarket and bought stuff that I could offer them. The time came and went and after 2 hours I'd given up on them. Five hours after their declared time they knocked on my door. I told them I wasn't interested in seeing them at all (what's the point, more disappointment). I care too much. > > > > So someone I know called and invited me to go out last night with a group of people. I was reluctant but (thinking of my values and how important they are to me), I said yes. I tried not to anticipate this one, to take it without expectation and lucky I did, because he never even turned up or called. Turns out he'd left a message a couple of days ago (I only got it this morning) and he said, "I'll probably need a place to crash and yours is as good as any". I guess he got a better offer. I want to pretend I don't care, then it bypasses all the language, the damaging/painful self-conceptualisations. > > > > I have been in my job now for about five months and seem to `get along' with everyone but have been unable to make any real connection (other than work related stuff). Two of the clients express feeling this connection with me. This just seems to be the story of my life from dot to spot. The drug addicts like me, the intellectually impaired like me but anyone with an inkling of intelligence can see right through me and avoid. The moment my daughter began to form her frontal lobe, she too gained enough intelligence to get out, get away. > > > > I really enjoy the ACT people but have no way into that community either because I'm not a student, professional or business person. I can't see that I'll ever get in-roads there. What's left? Virtual communication...that's it. > > > > I just don't know how to do this relationship stuff. It just leaves my feeling rotten. > > > > Lou (and my computer) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jim > > Designer | Developer > > > > http://www. jryanportfolio .com > >>

[Guest guest]

Helena, oh..you didn't say hell(my bad, sorry) You said nightmare. In any case,

it would be good to hear more detail of your experience then and now. As it

relates to your goals, values, ACT practice and processes. Maybe you posted

about the nightmare and also about your experience with the almost year no

drinking at home and i missed it..there are so many posts here in a given week

that there's no way i can keep up. I see you also said somewhere here face to

face was really important. Do you still do face to face sobriety meetings?

terry

> " I hope you'll share more how it's better for you, out of that " hell " you

referred to the other day. "

> Terry, I don't recall that.  Please refresh my memory. 

> Helena

[Guest guest]

Helena, moderation is a very personal choice. I respect whatever choices people

make around substance abuse, god knows I want the same. But I thought a while

back you said you you have pancreatitis. Isn't it rather risky/dangerous to

drink any alcohol with that condition?

And curious too: If true that home alone = strong desire to drink in an effort

to " self-medicate " as you say, and also true for you that socializing = no

desire to drink..wouldn't you then also have as a goal to seek out more

socializing, being around people? (Like your recent lunch with co-workers,

etc.)?

I guess another question is: What is it specifically that you think you were

self-medicating at home alone versus not needing to self-medicate when

socializing?

I'm looking at this in my own life. I certainly enjoy a balance and more and

more feeling that being with people (in a variety of contexts) is where it's at,

where lots of growth happens for me at an accelerated rate. Because

relationships have indeed been the biggest source of my suffering.

thanks,

terry

> >

> >

> >

> >  

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > When those religious women came to my door and spoke to me with such

kindness, I was so filled with emotion that I said it was ok for them to come

back. They gave me a time and a date. In anticipation of their visit, I did all

my domestics so they would feel comfortable when I invited them in. I even went

to the supermarket and bought stuff that I could offer them. The time came and

went and after 2 hours I'd given up on them. Five hours after their declared

time they knocked on my door. I told them I wasn't interested in seeing them at

all (what's the point, more disappointment). I care too much.

> >

> > So someone I know called and invited me to go out last night with a group of

people. I was reluctant but (thinking of my values and how important they are to

me), I said yes. I tried not to anticipate this one, to take it without

expectation and lucky I did, because he never even turned up or called. Turns

out he'd left a message a couple of days ago (I only got it this morning) and he

said, " I'll probably need a place to crash and yours is as good as any " . I guess

he got a better offer. I want to pretend I don't care, then it bypasses all the

language, the damaging/painful self-conceptualisations.

> >

> > I have been in my job now for about five months and seem to `get along' with

everyone but have been unable to make any real connection (other than work

related stuff). Two of the clients express feeling this connection with me. This

just seems to be the story of my life from dot to spot. The drug addicts like

me, the intellectually impaired like me but anyone with an inkling of

intelligence can see right through me and avoid. The moment my daughter began to

form her frontal lobe, she too gained enough intelligence to get out, get away.

> >

> > I really enjoy the ACT people but have no way into that community either

because I'm not a student, professional or business person. I can't see that

I'll ever get in-roads there. What's left? Virtual communication...that's it.

> >

> > I just don't know how to do this relationship stuff. It just leaves my

feeling rotten.

> >

> > Lou (and my computer)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Jim

> > Designer | Developer

> >

> > http://www. jryanportfolio .com

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I wish you'd say specifically what I wrote here now that puzzles you, not

just say I puzzle you yet choose to not give specifics and say that's that..but

hey, i wish for a lot of things, including the serenity to accept that which i

can't control, which seems to be a lot, especially here.

> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > When those religious women came to my door and spoke to me with such

> > > > kindness, I was so filled with emotion that I said it was ok for

> > > > them to come back. They gave me a time and a date. In anticipation

> > > > of their visit, I did all my domestics so they would feel

> > > > comfortable when I invited them in. I even went to the supermarket

> > > > and bought stuff that I could offer them. The time came and went and

> > > > after 2 hours I'd given up on them. Five hours after their declared

> > > > time they knocked on my door. I told them I wasn't interested in

> > > > seeing them at all (what's the point, more disappointment). I care

> > > > too much.

> > > >

> > > > So someone I know called and invited me to go out last night with a

> > > > group of people. I was reluctant but (thinking of my values and how

> > > > important they are to me), I said yes. I tried not to anticipate

> > > > this one, to take it without expectation and lucky I did, because he

> > > > never even turned up or called. Turns out he'd left a message a

> > > > couple of days ago (I only got it this morning) and he said, " I'll

> > > > probably need a place to crash and yours is as good as any " . I guess

> > > > he got a better offer. I want to pretend I don't care, then it

> > > > bypasses all the language, the damaging/painful self-

> > > > conceptualisations.

> > > >

> > > > I have been in my job now for about five months and seem to `get

> > > > along' with everyone but have been unable to make any real

> > > > connection (other than work related stuff). Two of the clients

> > > > express feeling this connection with me. This just seems to be the

> > > > story of my life from dot to spot. The drug addicts like me, the

> > > > intellectually impaired like me but anyone with an inkling of

> > > > intelligence can see right through me and avoid. The moment my

> > > > daughter began to form her frontal lobe, she too gained enough

> > > > intelligence to get out, get away.

> > > >

> > > > I really enjoy the ACT people but have no way into that community

> > > > either because I'm not a student, professional or business person. I

> > > > can't see that I'll ever get in-roads there. What's left? Virtual

> > > > communication...that's it.

> > > >

> > > > I just don't know how to do this relationship stuff. It just leaves

> > > > my feeling rotten.

> > > >

> > > > Lou (and my computer)

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Jim

> > > Designer | Developer

> > >

> > > http://www.jryanportfolio.com

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Terry, very personal questions, but I will answer them, no problem. If what I share can help others, I'm all for it!

My pancreatitis no longer exists. The problem was fixed by surgery (last October). When I was having attacks, I was advised by my physicians to not drink even though alcohol was not the cause. That was a big part of my motivation to give up alcohol, and when I realized the psychological benefits, I decided to continue with no alcohol at home and very little, if at all, while socializing. Of course, had I been addicted to alcohol, the moderation would, most likely, not have worked. I was not even addicted to cigarettes - I did not enjoy smoking but it had become a habit, one that I found relatively easy to give up, especially when the price sky-rocketed. In both cases, cigarettes and alcohol made me feel physically ill, for the most part. Yet they had their attraction as self-medications for anxiety and depression. I consider myself very lucky that I didn't enjoy them physically or I might have had much more of a battle giving them up. My heart goes out to people who are trying to quit who really enjoy smoking and drinking to the point of getting drunk.

I am constantly pursuing my value of expanding my social connections. My drinking at home alone was a self-medication against loneliness and depression; however, I always hated how it made me feel physically - but it did numb the emotional pain of loneliness. It does not follow, as you imply, that being home alone increases my desire to drink and socializing decreases my desire to drink - it is not a cause and effect thing. I no longer suffer from acute loneliness as I enjoy my own company as a sober person. The desire to self-medicate is what has vanished - after months of abstinence. When I choose to have a glass of wine, it is because I am sharing it with friends who enjoy sharing the wine much as one enjoys sharing a cup of tea. And I love the taste of a nice wine, so I savor each sip instead of gulping it down.

Helena

From: "theresa linder" <theresa.linderymail>To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 7:29:32 PMSubject: Re: Building Friendships

Helena, moderation is a very personal choice. I respect whatever choices people make around substance abuse, god knows I want the same. But I thought a while back you said you you have pancreatitis. Isn't it rather risky/dangerous to drink any alcohol with that condition? And curious too: If true that home alone = strong desire to drink in an effort to "self-medicate" as you say, and also true for you that socializing = no desire to drink..wouldn't you then also have as a goal to seek out more socializing, being around people? (Like your recent lunch with co-workers, etc.)?I guess another question is: What is it specifically that you think you were self-medicating at home alone versus not needing to self-medicate when socializing? I'm looking at this in my own life. I certainly enjoy a balance and more and more feeling that being with people (in a variety of contexts) is where it's at, where lots of growth happens for me at an accelerated rate. Because relationships have indeed been the biggest source of my suffering. thanks,terry > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > When those religious women came to my door and spoke to me with such kindness, I was so filled with emotion that I said it was ok for them to come back. They gave me a time and a date. In anticipation of their visit, I did all my domestics so they would feel comfortable when I invited them in. I even went to the supermarket and bought stuff that I could offer them. The time came and went and after 2 hours I'd given up on them. Five hours after their declared time they knocked on my door. I told them I wasn't interested in seeing them at all (what's the point, more disappointment). I care too much. > > > > So someone I know called and invited me to go out last night with a group of people. I was reluctant but (thinking of my values and how important they are to me), I said yes. I tried not to anticipate this one, to take it without expectation and lucky I did, because he never even turned up or called. Turns out he'd left a message a couple of days ago (I only got it this morning) and he said, "I'll probably need a place to crash and yours is as good as any". I guess he got a better offer. I want to pretend I don't care, then it bypasses all the language, the damaging/painful self-conceptualisations. > > > > I have been in my job now for about five months and seem to `get along' with everyone but have been unable to make any real connection (other than work related stuff). Two of the clients express feeling this connection with me. This just seems to be the story of my life from dot to spot. The drug addicts like me, the intellectually impaired like me but anyone with an inkling of intelligence can see right through me and avoid. The moment my daughter began to form her frontal lobe, she too gained enough intelligence to get out, get away. > > > > I really enjoy the ACT people but have no way into that community either because I'm not a student, professional or business person. I can't see that I'll ever get in-roads there. What's left? Virtual communication...that's it. > > > > I just don't know how to do this relationship stuff. It just leaves my feeling rotten. > > > > Lou (and my computer) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jim > > Designer | Developer > > > > http://www. jryanportfolio .com > >>

[Guest guest]

I don't think going into details here about what puzzles me would be beneficial and would just result in a lot of the "back and forth" I referred to earlier. I am perfectly fine with being puzzled by you and others on this list. I don't need to know everyone's motivations and thought processes and trying to do so only bogs me down. It almost becomes a contest of one-upping and I'm not fond of that. I regret writing that post regarding your comments to Jim. That was non-productive meddling. I'll try not to do it again.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 8:50:53 PMSubject: Re: Building Friendships

Well, I wish you'd say specifically what I wrote here now that puzzles you, not just say I puzzle you yet choose to not give specifics and say that's that..but hey, i wish for a lot of things, including the serenity to accept that which i can't control, which seems to be a lot, especially here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When those religious women came to my door and spoke to me with such > > > > kindness, I was so filled with emotion that I said it was ok for > > > > them to come back. They gave me a time and a date. In anticipation > > > > of their visit, I did all my domestics so they would feel > > > > comfortable when I invited them in. I even went to the supermarket > > > > and bought stuff that I could offer them. The time came and went and > > > > after 2 hours I'd given up on them. Five hours after their declared > > > > time they knocked on my door. I told them I wasn't interested in > > > > seeing them at all (what's the point, more disappointment). I care > > > > too much. > > > > > > > > So someone I know called and invited me to go out last night with a > > > > group of people. I was reluctant but (thinking of my values and how > > > > important they are to me), I said yes. I tried not to anticipate > > > > this one, to take it without expectation and lucky I did, because he > > > > never even turned up or called. Turns out he'd left a message a > > > > couple of days ago (I only got it this morning) and he said, "I'll > > > > probably need a place to crash and yours is as good as any". I guess > > > > he got a better offer. I want to pretend I don't care, then it > > > > bypasses all the language, the damaging/painful self- > > > > conceptualisations. > > > > > > > > I have been in my job now for about five months and seem to `get > > > > along' with everyone but have been unable to make any real > > > > connection (other than work related stuff). Two of the clients > > > > express feeling this connection with me. This just seems to be the > > > > story of my life from dot to spot. The drug addicts like me, the > > > > intellectually impaired like me but anyone with an inkling of > > > > intelligence can see right through me and avoid. The moment my > > > > daughter began to form her frontal lobe, she too gained enough > > > > intelligence to get out, get away. > > > > > > > > I really enjoy the ACT people but have no way into that community > > > > either because I'm not a student, professional or business person. I > > > > can't see that I'll ever get in-roads there. What's left? Virtual > > > > communication...that's it. > > > > > > > > I just don't know how to do this relationship stuff. It just leaves > > > > my feeling rotten. > > > > > > > > Lou (and my computer) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jim > > > Designer | Developer > > > > > > http://www.jryanportfolio.com > > > > >>

[Guest guest]

I never personally experienced the nightmare of substance abuse; I said using substances to get out of your mind can lead to a nightmare - I've seen it first-hand with people I know. I also said that face-to-face contact is very important when trying to quit an addiction, especially a seriously ingrained one that is ruining your life. I'm basing that on what I've read and heard Dr. Drew say, not on my personal experience. I did attend a smoking cessation class, but only one time. I was paired with a "buddy" who had extremely bad breath and was slovenly = huge gross-out factor. I never went back - but kicked it on my own - but as I said earlier, I wasn't truly addicted. Some years ago, I attended a group called "Women for Sobriety" and found the connection very helpful in terms of making new friends, but it did not help me to stop drinking at that time. I was exploring whether or not I wanted to quit, but I wasn't ready and I needed the self-medication at that time, not having other, healthier tools at my disposal. Today, having the ACT tools helps me to make decisions that are consistent with my value of living healthy.

Helena

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 6:12:51 PMSubject: Re: Building Friendships

Helena, oh..you didn't say hell(my bad, sorry) You said nightmare. In any case, it would be good to hear more detail of your experience then and now. As it relates to your goals, values, ACT practice and processes. Maybe you posted about the nightmare and also about your experience with the almost year no drinking at home and i missed it..there are so many posts here in a given week that there's no way i can keep up. I see you also said somewhere here face to face was really important. Do you still do face to face sobriety meetings?terry> "I hope you'll share more how it's better for you, out of that "hell" you referred to the other day." > Terry, I don't recall that. Please refresh my memory. > Helena

[Guest guest]

Well, I do think it could be beneficial if you were truly perplexed and imo,

that wouldn't be one-upping, it would be asking for clarification around

specific comments in a honest and clean way. One upping would be more like

passive aggressive stuff if just looking to criticize and be right, have the

last word without saying much.

One-upping is accelerated in many ways, some not so clear, and certainly not a

result of back and forth only. And..there are different kinds of one-upping,

some with substance where learning happens, where it isn't all only voting yay

or nay on what characters (who tend to look like protagonists or antagonists in

a novel) are simply looking to promote, forward, be right, promote a believed

thought, theory, opinion of human behavior, maybe intent to use words and take

positions to create drama, for their blog or journal, essay or novel or speech

about human behavior.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > When those religious women came to my door and spoke to me with such

> > > > > kindness, I was so filled with emotion that I said it was ok for

> > > > > them to come back. They gave me a time and a date. In anticipation

> > > > > of their visit, I did all my domestics so they would feel

> > > > > comfortable when I invited them in. I even went to the supermarket

> > > > > and bought stuff that I could offer them. The time came and went and

> > > > > after 2 hours I'd given up on them. Five hours after their declared

> > > > > time they knocked on my door. I told them I wasn't interested in

> > > > > seeing them at all (what's the point, more disappointment). I care

> > > > > too much.

> > > > >

> > > > > So someone I know called and invited me to go out last night with a

> > > > > group of people. I was reluctant but (thinking of my values and how

> > > > > important they are to me), I said yes. I tried not to anticipate

> > > > > this one, to take it without expectation and lucky I did, because he

> > > > > never even turned up or called. Turns out he'd left a message a

> > > > > couple of days ago (I only got it this morning) and he said, " I'll

> > > > > probably need a place to crash and yours is as good as any " . I guess

> > > > > he got a better offer. I want to pretend I don't care, then it

> > > > > bypasses all the language, the damaging/painful self-

> > > > > conceptualisations.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have been in my job now for about five months and seem to `get

> > > > > along' with everyone but have been unable to make any real

> > > > > connection (other than work related stuff). Two of the clients

> > > > > express feeling this connection with me. This just seems to be the

> > > > > story of my life from dot to spot. The drug addicts like me, the

> > > > > intellectually impaired like me but anyone with an inkling of

> > > > > intelligence can see right through me and avoid. The moment my

> > > > > daughter began to form her frontal lobe, she too gained enough

> > > > > intelligence to get out, get away.

> > > > >

> > > > > I really enjoy the ACT people but have no way into that community

> > > > > either because I'm not a student, professional or business person. I

> > > > > can't see that I'll ever get in-roads there. What's left? Virtual

> > > > > communication...that's it.

> > > > >

> > > > > I just don't know how to do this relationship stuff. It just leaves

> > > > > my feeling rotten.

> > > > >

> > > > > Lou (and my computer)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Jim

> > > > Designer | Developer

> > > >

> > > > http://www.jryanportfolio.com

> > > >

> > >

> >

>