Re: Re: The Terror at Work

[Guest guest]

I want to recommend this book to you, it is not ACT nor buddhist, it is the approach of an english psychologist, and it is called " how to live in the here and now " ... remember " better " , " worse " , are labels of your own mind, and you strive for comfort, that is ultimately your value, so find what is useful for you, and not in a trap of words, like " someone mentions this is better " , for that is only for you to determine, I am assuming, and also from the perspective of the book I recommended you, that radical acceptance and mindfulness of the present moment (although elusive most of the times) is what they mean by better, so not necessarily a category of better or worse, just to say that the experiencing of whatever might be happening is what they claim a more authentic and " best " way to live, as it is disentangled from the web of confusion of the interpretations of the mind. That said, the present moment awareness and radical acceptance should also include a moment at which you are having sex, so my advice is, there is no need to kill anything(like your way of living) in order to be " happy " (a better word would be present , but remember that we are all striving for some sort of comfort one way or another so no need for supreme ascetism or inauthenticity is necessary)... Also it is important to understand the perspective of what they say with the loss of ego, desire, etc, which might be easily thought of as living on a top of a mountain where there's no sound, desire (really?) , etc. Perhaps their ultimate goal might be this, but as a teaching for living, perhaps an easier way to understand it you might find it with the chinese concept of " wu wei " or " wei wu wei " , which is the practice of doing " non doing " , that is still acting, but not from the workings of the mind as to how things should be (which can easily be found as a category error) but in accordance to what is happening and to what drives you at that moment (this could include sensory awareness and pleasures if think about it), so it refers to a more fluid way of acting in which ego, desires, passions are not guiding the scenery, for you understand a deeper nature of your mind which exists not necessarily linked to them, which is ultimately your conscious awareness, it is mainly a way of understanding the nature of your mind so that your primary values (instincts) and your planning mind do not get in the way of your life so much (who's the I in that sentence living the life? think about it, it's your awareness) . So summarized, my idea is, you don't need to go to extremes that do not match your values (as they are not necessarily valid for everyone), but if you are interested in their lines of thinking, you might want to read about it because you'll find interesting ideas that you can apply in your life to enhance it, you don't have to take everything they say for granted or their whole teachings, but find your right path,  whatever this one is. ACT is a very robust system, I would say, of understanding these concepts.. 

I wish you the best,Rodolfo

 

I'm a little underwhelmed about the CBT but it might be the best thing

for me right now. If I make a partial, or complete, recovery ACT should

then become more effective because my chronic tension tends to stop it

from working.

I'm fascinated by Buddhism but I still find that the loss of ego,

passsion, and desire, disturbing. But to live in a world of radical

acceptance and mindfulness, which buddhists say is better than sex as it

brings such immence happinees, intrigues me. I felt so alive and happy

as a child where the world was just so incredibly immense awesome, and

wonderful but maybe ACT with its western mindfulness techniques will

save the day and I won't have to go down the rather 'I'm not sure if

this is for me' buddhist route.

Kv

> >

> >

> > I have to write this in code form because I work in a big company

and

> I

> > might get recognised. But I put in 200% at work and have always made

> my

> > job a number one priority. But the other day there was a small

> > misdemeaner on my part and I got caught falsifying my job sheet.

> > Basically I said A was wrong when it was B which just happens to be

> very

> > much the same thing. My supervisor laughed and said he was the

biggest

> > cheat going so I can't fool him and we all laughed because I felt it

> was

> > nothing really. Anyway, they work me so hard that I did spend ten

> > minutes trying to find peace in meditate. I thought that I had found

> the

> > fault qiuckly so why not get a bit back from them. I never do this

> > normally, it was jst a one off.

> >

> > I worked so hard yesterday and I looked like a coal miner all

covered

> in

> > ash and soot from a very filthy machine, but I was pleased with my

> high

> > standard of workmanship even though I had to work through lunch, yet

> > again, to get it done in time. I then got a warning from a collegue

> that

> > the superviser has put in a report about me falsifying data the

other

> > day and for taken too long to complete a job.

> >

> > So I will be dragged before a manger who is just as psychopathic as

my

> > superviser who loved making you feel absolutely terrible and upset

> them

> > . It will be like I have done a crime against humanity, or

something,

> > and I will probalbly get a grade A disciplinary for this. If I get

> > another one in two years I will probably get the sack. My manager is

> > that ruthless and has sacked a lot of people.

> >

> > I did not sleep last night because I am so angry as I feel that I am

> > being treated like a criminal when in fact I deserve a gold stars

for

> > the hard work I have put in. It is just so unfair but there is

nothing

> I

> > can do about it as I was indeed wrong on this occasion. And if I get

> > angry, which I won't, they are likely to send me home and put me on

a

> > final discipline that could even get me sacked. This is how ruthless

> > they are.

> >

> > I have been there 30 years, hardly take any sick, am never late,

work

> > after hours for nothing sometimes, often miss tea breaks, source

parts

> > on the internet in my own time which I can use to refurburish things

> and

> > so to save my company money, etc.

> >

> > I was talking to a new engineer the otherday who just started work

> here

> > and he was a superviser at his old firm. He said my superviser was

> > nutcase and is seriously out of order, so he is looking for another

> job,

> > he won't be staying here. My superviser is a very malicious nasty

man.

> >

> > Inside me I feel like a little boy, who is a very good boy, but I

have

> > been punched so really hard in the face. I feel assaulted and that I

> > must be really bad to bring out much hatred and anger in someone.

> >

> > I wish I could stop ruminating about this, but sometimes when I am

> > really upset I find I can slow my mind down and find peace. For the

> next

> > 3 hours I will go into some kind of silence, hopefully.

> >

> > I don't know what you folk will make of this post, but some of you

> might

> > be able to relate to it.

> >

> > Kv

> >

>

[Guest guest]

here's a link to the book I was talking about 

http://www.amazon.com/How-Live-Here-Now-Enlightenment/dp/1846941733/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8 & qid=1332703997 & sr=8-1 

I want to recommend this book to you, it is not ACT nor buddhist, it is the approach of an english psychologist, and it is called " how to live in the here and now " ... remember " better " , " worse " , are labels of your own mind, and you strive for comfort, that is ultimately your value, so find what is useful for you, and not in a trap of words, like " someone mentions this is better " , for that is only for you to determine, I am assuming, and also from the perspective of the book I recommended you, that radical acceptance and mindfulness of the present moment (although elusive most of the times) is what they mean by better, so not necessarily a category of better or worse, just to say that the experiencing of whatever might be happening is what they claim a more authentic and " best " way to live, as it is disentangled from the web of confusion of the interpretations of the mind. That said, the present moment awareness and radical acceptance should also include a moment at which you are having sex, so my advice is, there is no need to kill anything(like your way of living) in order to be " happy " (a better word would be present , but remember that we are all striving for some sort of comfort one way or another so no need for supreme ascetism or inauthenticity is necessary)... Also it is important to understand the perspective of what they say with the loss of ego, desire, etc, which might be easily thought of as living on a top of a mountain where there's no sound, desire (really?) , etc. Perhaps their ultimate goal might be this, but as a teaching for living, perhaps an easier way to understand it you might find it with the chinese concept of " wu wei " or " wei wu wei " , which is the practice of doing " non doing " , that is still acting, but not from the workings of the mind as to how things should be (which can easily be found as a category error) but in accordance to what is happening and to what drives you at that moment (this could include sensory awareness and pleasures if think about it), so it refers to a more fluid way of acting in which ego, desires, passions are not guiding the scenery, for you understand a deeper nature of your mind which exists not necessarily linked to them, which is ultimately your conscious awareness, it is mainly a way of understanding the nature of your mind so that your primary values (instincts) and your planning mind do not get in the way of your life so much (who's the I in that sentence living the life? think about it, it's your awareness) . So summarized, my idea is, you don't need to go to extremes that do not match your values (as they are not necessarily valid for everyone), but if you are interested in their lines of thinking, you might want to read about it because you'll find interesting ideas that you can apply in your life to enhance it, you don't have to take everything they say for granted or their whole teachings, but find your right path,  whatever this one is. ACT is a very robust system, I would say, of understanding these concepts.. 

I wish you the best,Rodolfo

 

I'm a little underwhelmed about the CBT but it might be the best thing

for me right now. If I make a partial, or complete, recovery ACT should

then become more effective because my chronic tension tends to stop it

from working.

I'm fascinated by Buddhism but I still find that the loss of ego,

passsion, and desire, disturbing. But to live in a world of radical

acceptance and mindfulness, which buddhists say is better than sex as it

brings such immence happinees, intrigues me. I felt so alive and happy

as a child where the world was just so incredibly immense awesome, and

wonderful but maybe ACT with its western mindfulness techniques will

save the day and I won't have to go down the rather 'I'm not sure if

this is for me' buddhist route.

Kv

> >

> >

> > I have to write this in code form because I work in a big company

and

> I

> > might get recognised. But I put in 200% at work and have always made

> my

> > job a number one priority. But the other day there was a small

> > misdemeaner on my part and I got caught falsifying my job sheet.

> > Basically I said A was wrong when it was B which just happens to be

> very

> > much the same thing. My supervisor laughed and said he was the

biggest

> > cheat going so I can't fool him and we all laughed because I felt it

> was

> > nothing really. Anyway, they work me so hard that I did spend ten

> > minutes trying to find peace in meditate. I thought that I had found

> the

> > fault qiuckly so why not get a bit back from them. I never do this

> > normally, it was jst a one off.

> >

> > I worked so hard yesterday and I looked like a coal miner all

covered

> in

> > ash and soot from a very filthy machine, but I was pleased with my

> high

> > standard of workmanship even though I had to work through lunch, yet

> > again, to get it done in time. I then got a warning from a collegue

> that

> > the superviser has put in a report about me falsifying data the

other

> > day and for taken too long to complete a job.

> >

> > So I will be dragged before a manger who is just as psychopathic as

my

> > superviser who loved making you feel absolutely terrible and upset

> them

> > . It will be like I have done a crime against humanity, or

something,

> > and I will probalbly get a grade A disciplinary for this. If I get

> > another one in two years I will probably get the sack. My manager is

> > that ruthless and has sacked a lot of people.

> >

> > I did not sleep last night because I am so angry as I feel that I am

> > being treated like a criminal when in fact I deserve a gold stars

for

> > the hard work I have put in. It is just so unfair but there is

nothing

> I

> > can do about it as I was indeed wrong on this occasion. And if I get

> > angry, which I won't, they are likely to send me home and put me on

a

> > final discipline that could even get me sacked. This is how ruthless

> > they are.

> >

> > I have been there 30 years, hardly take any sick, am never late,

work

> > after hours for nothing sometimes, often miss tea breaks, source

parts

> > on the internet in my own time which I can use to refurburish things

> and

> > so to save my company money, etc.

> >

> > I was talking to a new engineer the otherday who just started work

> here

> > and he was a superviser at his old firm. He said my superviser was

> > nutcase and is seriously out of order, so he is looking for another

> job,

> > he won't be staying here. My superviser is a very malicious nasty

man.

> >

> > Inside me I feel like a little boy, who is a very good boy, but I

have

> > been punched so really hard in the face. I feel assaulted and that I

> > must be really bad to bring out much hatred and anger in someone.

> >

> > I wish I could stop ruminating about this, but sometimes when I am

> > really upset I find I can slow my mind down and find peace. For the

> next

> > 3 hours I will go into some kind of silence, hopefully.

> >

> > I don't know what you folk will make of this post, but some of you

> might

> > be able to relate to it.

> >

> > Kv

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Try this book.. 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Mindfulness-Acceptance-Workbook-Anxiety/dp/1572244992/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8 & qid=1332736653 & sr=8-4 

It's actually a workbook, it actually mentions why CBT doesn't work (at least sometimes), or why is it more temporary.. ACT is perhaps the way to go for you, it'll teach you to steay with those unpleasant feelings and thoughts.. as I was saying before, in our hierarchy of values we have the " feeling good " at the top of the scale, but we fail to understand that in order to achieve these " better feelings " (remember good, bad are just categories of your mind, labels if you will, arbitrary labels) you must learn to tolerate and endure a set of unpleasant feelings, life has a variety of things, which when we come to accept, we set ourselves free in the path of our deepest desires. I wish you the best and I really believe that ACT can help you a lot if you put it in practice.

Rodolfo

 

hi, i am doing a 'course' of CBT and am feeling underwhelmed also. it's the same material I read,literally, decades ago--maybe I can make it stick this time? it is sad, to me, to be given handouts that are xeroxed from a 30 year old book that I have at home. D. Burns materials. I didn't say anything in the group, but the leader offered that she knew this may appear to be dated, and that there really hadn't been any improvements in CBT since Ellis and Burns 'wrote the book'

[Guest guest]

Hi WandaI've also been referred to a CBT course, and raised my reluctance with the mental health nurse who assessed me. We had a chat about why CBT might be good for me, even though I've done a course before. I've a few thoughts which may help.1. Don't let the age of the material put you off. A lot of ACT work builds on centuries-old practices!2. There's a difference between knowing the material and having read the book, and actually building it into your everyday life3. Maybe you can learn from other people in your group (as we learn from other people here).4. ACT is a form of CBT. If you hear "challenge your negative thoughts" how about

running it through an ACT translator in your head: "recognise your negative thoughts: are they helpful?". Best wishes x To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Monday, 26 March 2012, 4:56 Subject: Re: The Terror at Work

hi, i am doing a 'course' of CBT and am feeling underwhelmed also. it's the same material I read,literally, decades ago--maybe I can make it stick this time? it is sad, to me, to be given handouts that are xeroxed from a 30 year old book that I have at home. D. Burns materials. I didn't say anything in the group, but the leader offered that she knew this may appear to be dated, and that there really hadn't been any improvements in CBT since Ellis and Burns 'wrote the book'.