Re: Re: Religious Fanatic Question - Light Bulb for Me!

[Guest guest]

>>I would encourage everyone to search for spirituality outside of

organized religion!! Churches need to become more accountable to the

ultimate message they profess<<

Since you asked for opposing viewpoints, may I respectfully disagree?

I think my advice would be to seek spirituality in whatever place you find

Truth. That may or may not be within organized religion. Some of us, I'm sure,

have had very good experiences within organized religions. I think we harm

ourselves, spiritually, when we close off options carte blanche... " only within

organized religion " or " only outside of organized religion. " To me, such carte

blanche ideas seem to close us off to being open to any Truth the

universe/God/whatever one may call it is trying to send us.

Personally, I left the church I was raised in (Catholic) for several years.

In part, it was a break from my family...mosly my mother...because I was raised

with just the " rules and regulations " part of it and a flawed " blind obedience "

mentality. It was also in part because I bought entirely into the mindset of

organized religion being completely worthless.

I spent 6 years like that...and investigated many different belief systems and

philosophies, trying to find that which rang true in my heart. Many of the

things I looked into and tried to experience rang true in bits and pieces, but

not in their entirety. I tried kind of building my own way, but for ME that

didn't work.

Eventually, I found my way back to the Catholic Church. I found out, though,

that the church wasn't what I had been raised to believe she was. I found out

that many of the " rules " I had been taught had been taught improperly...by both

my mother and the catechists (even priests!). I found out that many...if not

most people (Catholic and non) don't truly understand what the church teaches,

even those who are entrusted to teach it. I learned to separate out what

individuals say the church teaches and what the church herself actually teaches.

I found that it was nowhere near as black and white as I had thought, that there

was great depth and reason and logic to it. I discovered that it's okay to

question and explore and challenge. I've spent the 12 years since then

constantly learning and growing and developing in my faith...and while parts of

it have been difficult, it has been rich and beautiful and comforting and

healing. It has been a home when I had none, and a

refuge when I needed it. It has definitely been difficult to separate out my

mother and her warped views of " faith " ...she uses her knowledge of the rules of

Catholicism as a battering ram. That was really hard for me to get past. I had

to basically approach Catholicism as if it was completely new to me, which...in

reality...it pretty much was!

That's what has worked for ME. Each of us, I believe, is obligated to find

that which works for ourselves...organized or not, Christian or not. I had put

up a wall for myself about what I was NOT going to accept as truth and it was

only by breaking down that wall and climbing over it that I found what works for

me.

Ninera

mercysaidno415 wrote:

Hope it's ok for me to jump in here. This might seem a bit off-topic

but please bear with me. I really want to share something that had a

huge impact on me last week.

I would encourage everyone to search for spirituality outside of

organized religion!! Churches need to become more accountable to the

ultimate message they profess. But churches can only be as

accountable as the members they include. Unfortunately, there have

been so many people use religious rules and regulations to segregate

who's in and who's out. BPDs are so good at picking and choosing

what info they can use to their advantage and selectively hearing and

spouting only those verses and tenets that suit their purpose. Church-

as-usual offers a nada a perfect situation to split black and white,

no? They are the extreme case. Then to a lesser degree, as someone

mentioned, you have the simple human factor in that we are all

fallible and all fall short, right? (Nada just loves to remind me

how I fall short!) We all make mistakes in interpretation and

application of whatever faith we are striving to uphold. But Divine

Grace is an awesome thing. We learn, we study, we make mistakes, we

forgive, we are forgiven,...God loves us no matter what. But as long

as we are learning and growing, we will continue to make mistakes and

that is OK. As long as we continue learning, seeking, questioning,

and remember the two basic rules ; 1) love Your God with all your

heart, soul and mind and 2) love your neighbor as YOURSELF. It's

really quite simple and so many, including me, have clouded the issue

so much.

Ok, here's the revelation part. I just got done reading 'Blue Like

Jazz' by . Fantastic book. I also just got done

reading UBM. Funny but before I began reading all this info I never

thought I would put these two things together. Bear with me because

this was a major light bulb moment for me. has a

conversation with his friend about his marriage to le :

starts out " One of the ways God shows me He loves me is through

le, and one of the ways God shows le He loves her is

through me. And because she loves me, and teaches me that I am

lovable, I can better interact with God. [...] I mean that to be in a

relationship with God is to be loved purely and furiously. And a

person who things himself unlovable cannot be in a relationship with

God because he can't accept who God is; a Being that is love. We

learn that we are lovable or unlovable from other people. That is why

God tells us so many times to love each other. " So here's my major

revelation. My nada did me THE GREATEST DISSERVICE in the eyes of

love to make me think of myself as unlovable. Not only did she hurt

me to the core with her cruelty and brutality within the confines of

the SACRED TRUST relationship of parent and child, but she was able

to effectively hurt me spiritually and distance me from my God. Is

that the message? Who in their right mind would preach THAT? But

nada did. No one person should have the right to destroy another soul

that way except for God Himself. It's inhuman. But she was a pillar

of the community, fine upstanding woman, married the son of the most

prominent preacher in town, grew up in the church, had 'religious'

parents,...blah blah dee blah. You get the picture. Church was a

perfect setup for abuse in my family. Much like just mentioned in

writermanque's car analogy. It was a perfect vehicle for my nada to

drive through my heart. For awhile, I wanted nothing of it. No

showroom, no car, no car saleman, no preachers, no learning, no

questions, no religion, no nothing.

So, back to my original point of finding spirituality outside of

organized religion. There is more than one way to buy a car, right?

If I had never ventured back and had stopped searching for my God

where would I be today? I don't know. I had bought it all, I was

headed down a path of self-abuse and destruction imitating how nada

had treated me. Maybe God is a crutch for me. Wow, but I know he's

my Savior. And I know He represents a Love like I've never known,

literally. I found Him in me. Not in a church, not in a pew, not in

a sermon, not in the hypocrites filling the church, not in serving on

Session, not in the potluck suppers, not in committees or church

busywork, NONE of that matters when it comes down to it. He is in

me, He loves me and I am the apple of His eye, despite what nada has

instilled in my self-talk. He loves me 'purely and furiously.' I

never would have found that if I hadn't wanted more than what was

being offered at the spiritual diner in the church on the corner of

Anytown, USA. I'm looking for the all you can eat buffet! There is

so much more to spirtuality/worship than most of what is being dished

out to us and what we have been conditioned to accept. Everyday

living can be worship!!

So, my thanks go out to those of you that read this lengthy post.

Like I said, it was a major revelation and source of validation to

me. I pass it on in hopes that those of you, that are so much like

me, might benefit from it.

I welcome ANY opposing viewpoints and would love to hear.

Kindest regards,

Mercy

>

> Hi Kyla,

>

> I didn't mean to offend anyone involved in organized religion, and

I

> sincerely hope I didn't. Like I said in my post, I know there is

> nothing fundamentally wrong with religion. I actually have a great

> deal of respect for people who observe their religion with dignity

> and sincerity.

>

> What I must take issue with is the analogy of rejecting cars

because

> a car salesman cheated us. I think it's much more complicated than

> that. I think what might be more accurate is a deep fear of cars

> because we were repeatedly run over by one driven by a psychopath.

> There's nothing wrong with the car, it's the driver that clearly

has

> problems. And yet, every time the victim sees a car, he or she

> wants to run screaming. That's what I think my experience has been

> like.

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