Guest guest Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Well, this is very interesting. Just re: the first sentence: The part about not understanding the concept resonates. The part about not being able to experience does not. The rest, I don't know. Words and such so get in the way. That's my chime for today. I have been enjoying the discussion on the other list too. Thanks for opening up this for all of us, Helena. To: ACT <act_for_the_public > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 12:02 PM Subject: Self as Context This concept cannot be understood or experienced as long as one is abusing substances on a regular basis, or frequently engaging in other avoidance behaviors. Yet, that is the very person who longs to know what it means; she or he is the most ardent seeker. Seeking and seeming-to-seek can stand in as avoidance postures. Someone who frequently dons the cloak of the false self wants like crazy to find a way out - to find their TRUE self apart from ego and content - but until they are willing to give up that cloak, they will never get it. Just my opinion, from my experience. Chime in if you have other viewpoints, or even if you agree.Helena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 I was strictly speaking from my experience. I could not experience self as context, let alone understand it, when I was using alcohol. Alcohol mis-use (used as an escape) kept the ego right up front and center, for me. I viewed it as wearing a cloak that obscured my true essence, or self as context. I'm sure others may have their own metaphors or words that would make more sense to them. As far as seeking as an avoidance posture is concerned - Seeking and searching for answers took on a more desperate color for me when I used escape mechanisms over and over - maybe because I got more and more lost to myself each time I took that route. At one point I realized that my seeking and searching was providing me comfort: See, even though I get drunk every now and then, I could feel good about myself by saying - oh, look how I am searching; look how I am seeking the truth. Thus, I came to realize my very searching was posturing as an escape mechanism as well. Maybe that doesn't make sense to anyone else but me! There was a lot of guilt around my using alcohol but darn it, I was still a good person - just look at how I hunger to be on the right path; look at my earnest quest! Talk about rationalizing! It all changed for me - hugely! - when I gave up the avoidance activity. Then when I searched, I found answers. I found me. Helena To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 8:57:18 PMSubject: Re: Self as Context Well, this is very interesting. Just re: the first sentence: The part about not understanding the concept resonates. The part about not being able to experience does not. The rest, I don't know. Words and such so get in the way. That's my chime for today. I have been enjoying the discussion on the other list too. Thanks for opening up this for all of us, Helena. To: ACT <act_for_the_public > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 12:02 PMSubject: Self as Context This concept cannot be understood or experienced as long as one is abusing substances on a regular basis, or frequently engaging in other avoidance behaviors. Yet, that is the very person who longs to know what it means; she or he is the most ardent seeker. Seeking and seeming-to-seek can stand in as avoidance postures. Someone who frequently dons the cloak of the false self wants like crazy to find a way out - to find their TRUE self apart from ego and content - but until they are willing to give up that cloak, they will never get it. Just my opinion, from my experience. Chime in if you have other viewpoints, or even if you agree. Helena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 I think I'd add that I have no idea what the relationship is-- if any-- between ability to access self as context for those who regularly abuse substances or routinely engage avoidant behaviors. Avoidant self-destructive rituals do tend to create a lot of unnecessary drama, distraction and suffering, but ability to access self as context and all processes remains intact so far as i can tell. Self as Context was initially introduced to me by Steve who said (paraphrasing)" now notice there are four of us present here in the room. There is my mind, your mind and then there is you and then there is me." That was all I needed to get it! And it was so refreshing to have someone just note and include that, as he does in most of his responses, one way or another. There are plenty of metaphors and exercises out there to help access this space. So it's pretty accessible imho. I don't know if that speaks to your thesis here or helps in any way. To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 5:57 PM Subject: Re: Self as Context Well, this is very interesting. Just re: the first sentence: The part about not understanding the concept resonates. The part about not being able to experience does not. The rest, I don't know. Words and such so get in the way. That's my chime for today. I have been enjoying the discussion on the other list too. Thanks for opening up this for all of us, Helena. To: ACT <act_for_the_public > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 12:02 PM Subject: Self as Context This concept cannot be understood or experienced as long as one is abusing substances on a regular basis, or frequently engaging in other avoidance behaviors. Yet, that is the very person who longs to know what it means; she or he is the most ardent seeker. Seeking and seeming-to-seek can stand in as avoidance postures. Someone who frequently dons the cloak of the false self wants like crazy to find a way out - to find their TRUE self apart from ego and content - but until they are willing to give up that cloak, they will never get it. Just my opinion, from my experience. Chime in if you have other viewpoints, or even if you agree.Helena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Hi Helena,I just saw this post of yours. My experience has been different. Self as context like all processes are experienced on a continuum for me. Now naturally, if I'm constantly engaging in self-destructive behavior and all that entails, less of me is available to show up for something new. And yes, the unworkable behavior along with the internal and external ritual does tend to take on a psuedo meaning, pseudo life of it's own, and as you say the quest itself can create a false sense of nobility, righteousness. But once the gig is up, there is always a part of me that sort of sees even that, truth be told, even if I pick the cloak up temporarily. That choice (to pick up the cloak) tho has nothing to do with knowing who i am essentially, complete, whole. Sure wastes a lot of valuable time though. To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 8:00 AM Subject: Re: Self as Context I was strictly speaking from my experience. I could not experience self as context, let alone understand it, when I was using alcohol. Alcohol mis-use (used as an escape) kept the ego right up front and center, for me. I viewed it as wearing a cloak that obscured my true essence, or self as context. I'm sure others may have their own metaphors or words that would make more sense to them. As far as seeking as an avoidance posture is concerned - Seeking and searching for answers took on a more desperate color for me when I used escape mechanisms over and over - maybe because I got more and more lost to myself each time I took that route. At one point I realized that my seeking and searching was providing me comfort: See, even though I get drunk every now and then, I could feel good about myself by saying - oh, look how I am searching; look how I am seeking the truth. Thus, I came to realize my very searching was posturing as an escape mechanism as well. Maybe that doesn't make sense to anyone else but me! There was a lot of guilt around my using alcohol but darn it, I was still a good person - just look at how I hunger to be on the right path; look at my earnest quest! Talk about rationalizing! It all changed for me - hugely! - when I gave up the avoidance activity. Then when I searched, I found answers. I found me. Helena To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 8:57:18 PMSubject: Re: Self as Context Well, this is very interesting. Just re: the first sentence: The part about not understanding the concept resonates. The part about not being able to experience does not. The rest, I don't know. Words and such so get in the way. That's my chime for today. I have been enjoying the discussion on the other list too. Thanks for opening up this for all of us, Helena. To: ACT <act_for_the_public > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 12:02 PMSubject: Self as Context This concept cannot be understood or experienced as long as one is abusing substances on a regular basis, or frequently engaging in other avoidance behaviors. Yet, that is the very person who longs to know what it means; she or he is the most ardent seeker. Seeking and seeming-to-seek can stand in as avoidance postures. Someone who frequently dons the cloak of the false self wants like crazy to find a way out - to find their TRUE self apart from ego and content - but until they are willing to give up that cloak, they will never get it. Just my opinion, from my experience. Chime in if you have other viewpoints, or even if you agree. Helena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 I see what you're saying. I got the concept, even understood it, but I didn't experience "self as context" until I stopped engaging in habitual avoidant behaviors. To my understanding, if one is experiencing "self as context" for the most part (don't know if anyone can have that fully in every moment), you could not be fused with your "self as content" at the same time - which is where you are coming from when you pick up <name your vice>. The more I did that picking up, or putting on that cloak as I described it, the more fused I got with my stories and my suffering and the further away from knowing my "self as context." Just my experience, which is all I can speak to. Yours may be completely different and every bit as valid! Helena To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 11:07:13 AMSubject: Re: Self as Context I think I'd add that I have no idea what the relationship is-- if any-- between ability to access self as context for those who regularly abuse substances or routinely engage avoidant behaviors. Avoidant self-destructive rituals do tend to create a lot of unnecessary drama, distraction and suffering, but ability to access self as context and all processes remains intact so far as i can tell. Self as Context was initially introduced to me by Steve who said (paraphrasing)" now notice there are four of us present here in the room. There is my mind, your mind and then there is you and then there is me." That was all I needed to get it! And it was so refreshing to have someone just note and include that, as he does in most of his responses, one way or another. There are plenty of metaphors and exercises out there to help access this space. So it's pretty accessible imho. I don't know if that speaks to your thesis here or helps in any way. To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 5:57 PMSubject: Re: Self as Context Well, this is very interesting. Just re: the first sentence: The part about not understanding the concept resonates. The part about not being able to experience does not. The rest, I don't know. Words and such so get in the way. That's my chime for today. I have been enjoying the discussion on the other list too. Thanks for opening up this for all of us, Helena. To: ACT <act_for_the_public > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 12:02 PMSubject: Self as Context This concept cannot be understood or experienced as long as one is abusing substances on a regular basis, or frequently engaging in other avoidance behaviors. Yet, that is the very person who longs to know what it means; she or he is the most ardent seeker. Seeking and seeming-to-seek can stand in as avoidance postures. Someone who frequently dons the cloak of the false self wants like crazy to find a way out - to find their TRUE self apart from ego and content - but until they are willing to give up that cloak, they will never get it. Just my opinion, from my experience. Chime in if you have other viewpoints, or even if you agree. Helena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 You'll be the same you but not without costs for your choice. To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 4:36 PM Subject: Re: Self as Context I am still ‘me’ when I am high. It is my biology and perception that I’ve changed for that moment. I’ll be the same me when I straighten up. To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Friday, 13 April 2012 10:27 AM Subject: Re: Self as Context Well, this is very interesting. Just re: the first sentence: The part about not understanding the concept resonates. The part about not being able to experience does not. The rest, I don't know. Words and such so get in the way. That's my chime for today. I have been enjoying the discussion on the other list too. Thanks for opening up this for all of us, Helena. To: ACT <act_for_the_public > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 12:02 PM Subject: Self as Context This concept cannot be understood or experienced as long as one is abusing substances on a regular basis, or frequently engaging in other avoidance behaviors. Yet, that is the very person who longs to know what it means; she or he is the most ardent seeker. Seeking and seeming-to-seek can stand in as avoidance postures. Someone who frequently dons the cloak of the false self wants like crazy to find a way out - to find their TRUE self apart from ego and content - but until they are willing to give up that cloak, they will never get it. Just my opinion, from my experience. Chime in if you have other viewpoints, or even if you agree.Helena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 You may still be you when you call me at 3 a.m. my time, totally drunk, because I gave you my number. Be you for all it's worth. It's your biology when you take advantage of my friendship by calling me at 3 a.m., when I thought it was the hospital calling to tell me my sister had died.Be YOU. By all means.To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 7:36:11 PMSubject: Re: Self as Context I am still ‘me’ when I am high. It is my biology and perception that I’ve changed for that moment. I’ll be the same me when I straighten up. To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Friday, 13 April 2012 10:27 AM Subject: Re: Self as Context Well, this is very interesting. Just re: the first sentence: The part about not understanding the concept resonates. The part about not being able to experience does not. The rest, I don't know. Words and such so get in the way. That's my chime for today. I have been enjoying the discussion on the other list too. Thanks for opening up this for all of us, Helena. To: ACT <act_for_the_public > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 12:02 PM Subject: Self as Context This concept cannot be understood or experienced as long as one is abusing substances on a regular basis, or frequently engaging in other avoidance behaviors. Yet, that is the very person who longs to know what it means; she or he is the most ardent seeker. Seeking and seeming-to-seek can stand in as avoidance postures. Someone who frequently dons the cloak of the false self wants like crazy to find a way out - to find their TRUE self apart from ego and content - but until they are willing to give up that cloak, they will never get it. Just my opinion, from my experience. Chime in if you have other viewpoints, or even if you agree.Helena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 That.might be true if you were the only one affected by the biology experiment. Others might see it differently.Sent from my iPod I am still ‘me’ when I am high. It is my biology and perception that I’ve changed for that moment. I’ll be the same me when I straighten up. To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Friday, 13 April 2012 10:27 AM Subject: Re: Self as Context Well, this is very interesting. Just re: the first sentence: The part about not understanding the concept resonates. The part about not being able to experience does not. The rest, I don't know. Words and such so get in the way. That's my chime for today. I have been enjoying the discussion on the other list too. Thanks for opening up this for all of us, Helena. To: ACT <act_for_the_public > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 12:02 PM Subject: Self as Context This concept cannot be understood or experienced as long as one is abusing substances on a regular basis, or frequently engaging in other avoidance behaviors. Yet, that is the very person who longs to know what it means; she or he is the most ardent seeker. Seeking and seeming-to-seek can stand in as avoidance postures. Someone who frequently dons the cloak of the false self wants like crazy to find a way out - to find their TRUE self apart from ego and content - but until they are willing to give up that cloak, they will never get it. Just my opinion, from my experience. Chime in if you have other viewpoints, or even if you agree.Helena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 It really gets fun when I define 'me'. I payed that game for years trying to marvel the mystery before I realized ther was no mystery and the search itself was the only goal of the search. I am me whenever I look, but never the same between any two glances. Not that it matters as I am always there when I look for me, which is the best definition. D That.might be true if you were the only one affected by the biology experiment. Others might see it differently.Sent from my iPod I am still ‘me’ when I am high. It is my biology and perception that I’ve changed for that moment. I’ll be the same me when I straighten up. To: " ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Friday, 13 April 2012 10:27 AM Subject: Re: Self as Context Well, this is very interesting. Just re: the first sentence: The part about not understanding the concept resonates. The part about not being able to experience does not. The rest, I don't know. Words and such so get in the way. That's my chime for today. I have been enjoying the discussion on the other list too. Thanks for opening up this for all of us, Helena. To: ACT <act_for_the_public > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 12:02 PM Subject: Self as Context This concept cannot be understood or experienced as long as one is abusing substances on a regular basis, or frequently engaging in other avoidance behaviors. Yet, that is the very person who longs to know what it means; she or he is the most ardent seeker. Seeking and seeming-to-seek can stand in as avoidance postures. Someone who frequently dons the cloak of the false self wants like crazy to find a way out - to find their TRUE self apart from ego and content - but until they are willing to give up that cloak, they will never get it. Just my opinion, from my experience. Chime in if you have other viewpoints, or even if you agree.Helena -- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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