Re: Is Your Nada/Fada the Gatekeeper?

February 26, 2008

Vegdeanna,

My nada was the gatekeeper and I did manage to circumvent it but it

took years. I had to wait until history began repeating itself with

my sister and others in the family began to realize that I was

telling the truth. I was very close to my Grandmother (nada's

mother) in the years before she passed away. The whole family

scenario had flip-flopped from me being the outsider with nada as the

gatekeeper to nada being the outsider having no communication with

anyone. It took me keeping in touch with my Grandmother during the

times when nada banished me from the family and then waiting in the

wings to pick up the pieces with my sister.

Mercy

>

> Just wondering if most of us find our Nada has made herself the

> go-between between us and our other family members. Mine seems to

> have done this. Also wondering if any of you have circumvented

that?

>

February 26, 2008

Mine does. Its like she's the gatekeeper, positioned between me and the extended

family, even my sister, and to get to them I must go through her. She's had that

gate locked for a while.

That's a great question, I've wondered it as well. I have a follow-up too, how

abnormal is that? In my family, it seems to almost be tradition. If

announcements need to be made, like invitations to a wedding, they're never sent

to the youngest generation, but to their parents, no matter what age. And the

parents are expected to pass the information along. My cousins don't have

contact with the rest of the family, except through their parents, same as me.

Now, my grandmother may have been BPD, she had many traits, but a brain aneurism

as well, so who knows. This may have started with her and has just become the

way my family functions. Do " normal " families do this?

Jae

Is Your Nada/Fada the Gatekeeper?

Just wondering if most of us find our Nada has made herself the

go-between between us and our other family members. Mine seems to

have done this. Also wondering if any of you have circumvented that?

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February 26, 2008

ABSOLUTELY!! My mother in law has very much made herself the middle

man. However, if you were to ask her, she would tell you that she

doesn't want to be in the middle. I assure you, this is not the case.

My husband has not spoken to her in about two months because of her

having to be the gatekeeper. Recently, she decided she was no longer

speaking to the extended family - we do not know the reasons. We

decided to go to Christmas with the extended family anyway. She said

it was hurtful that we would do this, and threw a mini-tantrum through

her husband a couple days after Christmas (AKA - had my husband's

father call and voice her complaints for her).

I think she likes her position as middle man because she can pass

blame off as she sees fit. For example, if someone asks why she is

not speaking to the family, she will say it is not her choice, but her

husband's. Again, I assure you this is not the case. Another

example, since we have stopped speaking to her, my husband's sister

has emailed us and told us how horrible we are for doing this to

" mom " . This is my MIL's way of assuring she does not get blamed for

the relationship demise. Because when it all comes to a head, she

will say that she didn't say those things, her daughter did.

Its a giant circle of manipulation. My husband has not spoken to his

father or sister since Christmas either. I assume we will not speak

with them until we apologize to his mom for what she has done.

(That's not a typo - thats really what I think they want us to do)

I'm also very curious if anyone has found a way around this. Her

subjects are so fiercely loyal. Plus I think when someone stands up to

her, it makes those in her life that continue to pussyfoot around her,

appear like " the good ones " .

>

> Just wondering if most of us find our Nada has made herself the

> go-between between us and our other family members. Mine seems to

> have done this. Also wondering if any of you have circumvented that?

>

February 26, 2008

In my family my nada, the parent with bpd is not the gatekeeper at all. My

dad, the huntsman, is. I think the best way to describe my mom's

relationship with family is as the " hermit " personality, although she is a

queen/waif/witch a lot of the time too. My mom did strange strange things

and probably still does. For instance, when my dad would set up a family

dinner and invite my grandparents (his parents) for Thanksgiving, Christmas,

a birthday or mother's day, my mom would lay in bed all day reading. Then,

20 or so minutes before my grandparents were expected to arrive, she would

go in the bathroom and finally begin " getting ready, " bathing, combing her

hair, all those normal every day things that we all have to do. She would

stay locked in the bathroom for at least an hour and a half and my dad would

typically hold the meal for her. I have also seen him say, " it's her choice "

and let everybody go ahead and eat. It didn't matter to her, because when

she came out she could eat alone which was her preference. I think the only

thing that would have bothered her would have been if she didn't get to eat

the meal my dad and I made.

She hasn't called me a single time since I stopped speaking to her 5 years

ago. She sent me a lot of very strange letters though. The letters said

things like " I finally understand why you don't want to talk to me. It's

because I loved your brothers more than I loved you. " I ignored all of her

letters and they stopped 4 years ago although she still sends me envelopes

of ripped out magazine pages and pieces of junk she saves for me via my dad.

Let me clarify that I have only one living sibling, my older brother, who

was her " all good " and she did love him more than me, so that didn't really

offend me. When I was 11 my mom got pregnant and the baby boy died at 6

months gestation. So, she was telling me that she loved my dead brother who

she never met more than she loved me, which is also true. Still, it hurt to

get that note, but in a way it did me a favor because I have never ever

doubted my decision to have no contact with her since reading that.

Does anyone else have a parent who splits dead people as being wonderful and

living people as villains? My mom did and probably does this constantly.

Thanks, Girlscout

>

> ABSOLUTELY!! My mother in law has very much made herself the middle

> man. However, if you were to ask her, she would tell you that she

> doesn't want to be in the middle. I assure you, this is not the case.

> My husband has not spoken to her in about two months because of her

> having to be the gatekeeper. Recently, she decided she was no longer

> speaking to the extended family - we do not know the reasons. We

> decided to go to Christmas with the extended family anyway. She said

> it was hurtful that we would do this, and threw a mini-tantrum through

> her husband a couple days after Christmas (AKA - had my husband's

> father call and voice her complaints for her).

>

> I think she likes her position as middle man because she can pass

> blame off as she sees fit. For example, if someone asks why she is

> not speaking to the family, she will say it is not her choice, but her

> husband's. Again, I assure you this is not the case. Another

> example, since we have stopped speaking to her, my husband's sister

> has emailed us and told us how horrible we are for doing this to

> " mom " . This is my MIL's way of assuring she does not get blamed for

> the relationship demise. Because when it all comes to a head, she

> will say that she didn't say those things, her daughter did.

>

> Its a giant circle of manipulation. My husband has not spoken to his

> father or sister since Christmas either. I assume we will not speak

> with them until we apologize to his mom for what she has done.

> (That's not a typo - thats really what I think they want us to do)

>

> I'm also very curious if anyone has found a way around this. Her

> subjects are so fiercely loyal. Plus I think when someone stands up to

> her, it makes those in her life that continue to pussyfoot around her,

> appear like " the good ones " .

>

> >

> > Just wondering if most of us find our Nada has made herself the

> > go-between between us and our other family members. Mine seems to

> > have done this. Also wondering if any of you have circumvented that?

> >

>

February 26, 2008

One correction. I think the letter was written in present tense, " I love

your brothers more than I love you. "

>

> In my family my nada, the parent with bpd is not the gatekeeper at all. My

> dad, the huntsman, is. I think the best way to describe my mom's

> relationship with family is as the " hermit " personality, although she is a

> queen/waif/witch a lot of the time too. My mom did strange strange things

> and probably still does. For instance, when my dad would set up a family

> dinner and invite my grandparents (his parents) for Thanksgiving, Christmas,

> a birthday or mother's day, my mom would lay in bed all day reading. Then,

> 20 or so minutes before my grandparents were expected to arrive, she would

> go in the bathroom and finally begin " getting ready, " bathing, combing her

> hair, all those normal every day things that we all have to do. She would

> stay locked in the bathroom for at least an hour and a half and my dad would

> typically hold the meal for her. I have also seen him say, " it's her choice "

> and let everybody go ahead and eat. It didn't matter to her, because when

> she came out she could eat alone which was her preference. I think the only

> thing that would have bothered her would have been if she didn't get to eat

> the meal my dad and I made.

>

> She hasn't called me a single time since I stopped speaking to her 5 years

> ago. She sent me a lot of very strange letters though. The letters said

> things like " I finally understand why you don't want to talk to me. It's

> because I loved your brothers more than I loved you. " I ignored all of her

> letters and they stopped 4 years ago although she still sends me envelopes

> of ripped out magazine pages and pieces of junk she saves for me via my dad.

> Let me clarify that I have only one living sibling, my older brother, who

> was her " all good " and she did love him more than me, so that didn't really

> offend me. When I was 11 my mom got pregnant and the baby boy died at 6

> months gestation. So, she was telling me that she loved my dead brother who

> she never met more than she loved me, which is also true. Still, it hurt to

> get that note, but in a way it did me a favor because I have never ever

> doubted my decision to have no contact with her since reading that.

>

> Does anyone else have a parent who splits dead people as being wonderful

> and living people as villains? My mom did and probably does this constantly.

>

> Thanks, Girlscout

>

> >

> > ABSOLUTELY!! My mother in law has very much made herself the middle

> > man. However, if you were to ask her, she would tell you that she

> > doesn't want to be in the middle. I assure you, this is not the case.

> > My husband has not spoken to her in about two months because of her

> > having to be the gatekeeper. Recently, she decided she was no longer

> > speaking to the extended family - we do not know the reasons. We

> > decided to go to Christmas with the extended family anyway. She said

> > it was hurtful that we would do this, and threw a mini-tantrum through

> > her husband a couple days after Christmas (AKA - had my husband's

> > father call and voice her complaints for her).

> >

> > I think she likes her position as middle man because she can pass

> > blame off as she sees fit. For example, if someone asks why she is

> > not speaking to the family, she will say it is not her choice, but her

> > husband's. Again, I assure you this is not the case. Another

> > example, since we have stopped speaking to her, my husband's sister

> > has emailed us and told us how horrible we are for doing this to

> > " mom " . This is my MIL's way of assuring she does not get blamed for

> > the relationship demise. Because when it all comes to a head, she

> > will say that she didn't say those things, her daughter did.

> >

> > Its a giant circle of manipulation. My husband has not spoken to his

> > father or sister since Christmas either. I assume we will not speak

> > with them until we apologize to his mom for what she has done.

> > (That's not a typo - thats really what I think they want us to do)

> >

> > I'm also very curious if anyone has found a way around this. Her

> > subjects are so fiercely loyal. Plus I think when someone stands up to

> > her, it makes those in her life that continue to pussyfoot around her,

> > appear like " the good ones " .

> >

> > >

> > > Just wondering if most of us find our Nada has made herself the

> > > go-between between us and our other family members. Mine seems to

> > > have done this. Also wondering if any of you have circumvented that?

> > >

> >

>

February 26, 2008

vegdeanna...

ABSOLUTELY!!! I'm 35, and only in the past few years realized that I could

contact family members on my own and...gasp...have relationships with them that

are independent of my mother.

And it pisses her off to NO end. She's gone after some of them...I have a

cousin (who is actually from my dad's side) who is close to my mother and who

will not speak to me. That hurts...then again, my mother thinks that cousin is

like a daughter to her (and her kids are like grandkids) but has no idea that my

cousin will absolutely TRASH my mother behind her back. Call me vindictive, but

I get a distinct pleasure from that!

I regret that I never really got the chance to fully know my mother's sister.

My mother has nothing nice to say about my aunt, but I did start to get to know

her several years ago and I always had a delightful experience with her. She's

gone now, so I don't have the chance to continue getting to know her. I've

seized the opportunity to get to know my grandmother (my mom's mother) and this

terrifies my mother. My grandmother came to visit (from out of state) last year

for a few months while her home was being renovated...you have to love a 94 year

old woman who is still independent...and my mother did everything she could to

make it difficult for my grandmother and I to interact. My mother and her

husband even took away Grandma's cell phone!! My grandmother would sneak to the

phone and call me up " Come get me out of here, I need an escape for awhile! " My

mother's husband would go on and on about how grandma is " slipping " because she

" sleeps all the time. " Little

did he know...my grandmother was FAKING, lol. She had her crochet stuff hidden

under the blankets...she would hear him coming, hide it and lay down and pretend

to sleep. LOVE her!

It really all started for me when I went out of the country on mission for

almost 2 years. I set up a yahoogroup so I could send out updates to my friends

and family. (I had really liminted email access where I was...had to get into

the nearby town and hope there was power, lol). Anyway, several relatives

signed up for it and then would send comments back or whatever...so it opened up

the direct communication. I was tentative at first, because I knew they only

knew me as the evil child she told them I was. But, I think they figured out

when I went on mission that maybe I wasn't so bad, you know? The one

relationship that really blossomed was with one of my cousins...he is the son of

my mom's brother. He's an only child and kind of adopted me as an older sister.

He's a really amazing man...and we grew to be really good supports to each

other. He got married a couple of years ago and his wife is one of my favorite

people ever...her family has even kind of taken me

in as one of their own. Anyway, growing that relationship with my cousin

helped open up a ton of other relationships. First, with his parents. I've

learned that his mother is completely wonderful and not at all the ogre I was

raised to think she was. That grew into getting to know even more extended

family (second cousins, etc) that my cousin and his parents are close to but

whom I never really got to know because my mother blocked it.

All in all, I had to realize that I have a right to those relationships and a

right to contact those people on my own terms. And thank God for the internet,

you know? It's really cool how many relatives I am getting to know just because

one of us found the other on facebook or myspace!

Ninera

vegdeanna wrote:

Just wondering if most of us find our Nada has made herself the

go-between between us and our other family members. Mine seems to

have done this. Also wondering if any of you have circumvented that?

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February 26, 2008

Hi Vegdeanna,

I know I've used this word over and over in my posts, but it's so perfect, I

have to use it again. My nada has always seen herself as the gatekeeper between

me and the family. She must know every detail of every contact and is

completely suspicious and offended if she finds out that there was a

communication between me and someone in the family that she was unaware of.

This is why my relationship with my only sister was doomed because my nada

" policed " the relationship to death. She did this with my father as well.

When I overhear people saying they called their sister or their cousin or

whomever, I think to myself - I wonder what it is like to be able to pick up the

phone to call a family member and have it turn out okay without getting into

trouble with nada. Of course, that was before I learned about BP, so now - I

will call who I damn well please, thankyouverymuch. But - I have to admit that

I don't have a long list of family members to call because my nada kept everyone

at such distance and created such unrest that I am not close to many people in

the family, and there are other relationships (like the one with my sister and

her children) that are totally destroyed. I do have relationships with cousins

and I maintain contact with them through e-mail and phone calls. I don't go to

family outings anymore because nada ruins them all. I wish it was different,

but just like it's hard to make new and lasting friendships in this busy world,

it also hard to

rekindle family relationships that have been left to wither on the vine for

years and years. My friends are my family and I'm careful to pick people who

are positive and tend not to be insane :).

I should also say that my nada did not stop at immediate family. Once she had

gone through blood relatives, she started on my in-laws and friends. Just

before I went NC, she told me that if she was not 85 years old, she would seek

out my mother-in-law, wrestle her to floor and " maul " her. I'm not adding

anything for drama here - that's what she said. She made this statement during

a tirade about how I had time for everyone but her. When I asked her if she

thought it was twisted that she was ranting about my mother-in-law, a woman with

whom she has no contact - she said she had plenty of energy to hate her and that

she enjoyed it. Mind you - my husband and I know she dislikes my mother-in-law

(very common with BP's whose children are married), so I never mention my

m-in-law to nada, so it's not like she needs to even think about her. When I

got home that day, I told my husband - " my mother's going to kick your mother's

ass. " We had quite a laugh

over it.

Tag

Is Your Nada/Fada the Gatekeeper?

Just wondering if most of us find our Nada has made herself the

go-between between us and our other family members. Mine seems to

have done this. Also wondering if any of you have circumvented that?

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February 26, 2008

I think normal families share information more freely. They might recognize a

matriarch or patriarch and defer to them out of respect and tradition, but it's

not the same thing as the gatekeeping thing that I've seen my Mom do. It's all

about control and keeping people off balance. I swear the smallest family event

would turn into a nuclear weapons conference once she got involved in it.

Is Your Nada/Fada the Gatekeeper?

Just wondering if most of us find our Nada has made herself the

go-between between us and our other family members. Mine seems to

have done this. Also wondering if any of you have circumvented that?

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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February 26, 2008

>

> Just wondering if most of us find our Nada has made herself the

> go-between between us and our other family members. Mine seems to

> have done this. Also wondering if any of you have circumvented that?

>

My dad slanders me to the rest of the family and talks over me, mocks

me, etc, when we are in a group setting. I never go 'out' with them

and rarely go to family events where he will be present because of

this. This only lends to their belief that what he says about me is

true; it is not a great loss to me because my family on both sides are

southern religious conservatives, closet bigots, (not always closeted

though) that I have little in common with. I don't subject myself to

being in group settings with my dad though. I might feel differently

if there were anyone I might actually have something in common with

but as far as I am concerned it is their loss. My dad is one of those

outwardly charming bpds, he is also a talented artist who does amazing

portraits of family members or their pets on request and everyone just

loves him. There is no point in me even trying to defend myself

against his lies, I just have to let the rest of the family go. It is

hurtful when I am confronted with attitude from an extended family

member I haven't heard from in years and then realize my dad has been

bad-mouthing me again, but other than that I don't think about it much.

February 26, 2008

>

> Just wondering if most of us find our Nada has made herself the

> go-between between us and our other family members. Mine seems to

> have done this. Also wondering if any of you have circumvented

that?

>

YES, she thinks she is a necessary link between any 2 people she

knows.

My dad still hasn't figured out that it's possible to pick up a phone

and dial my number without her asking him to first.

I finally asked her to stop talking to me about my sister, but up

until then, she and my dad still thought they had to call me and ask

permission for my sister (grown adult) to come visit me. I think

that's bizarre. I'd be like, " Um, yeah, Mom, we're both adults and

capable of planning visits on our own. "

I think both of my grandmothers had BPD. My mother was an only

child, but my father had one brother. They were estranged, so all

news about either of them came from their parents. I'm sure that

must have influenced my mother's perceptions about how adult siblings

behave toward each other, but still...it's weird.

Another story: A couple of years ago, when my younger daughter was

baptised, my parents came to town for the service. My husband and I

planned to take them and my in-laws to a restaurant for dinner on a

Saturday. We have lots of extended family that live nearby, so my

mom wanted to know if we could invite them over. I said, sure, and

called the cousins to see if they would like to come to lunch on

Saturday. They acted surprised because my mother had already called

them to invite them to my house. Anyway. Then, one of the cousins

couldn't make it, so I invited them to meet us for dinner. I called

the restaurant and made a reservation. So Saturday rolls around.

Two sets of my relatives show up, and my mother starts answering the

door and introducing people to my husband (they've all met before),

acting like it's HER house. Like a LITERAL gatekeeper. Then, the

restaurant calls me wondering why I made 2 reservations. My parents

apparently didn't think I had the foresight to take care of such

a " complicated " dinner on my own, so they took over. I was VERY

annoyed by the end of the day.

As far as " circumventing " the gatekeeper...I guess all you have to do

is just pick up a phone and call them yourself. Just make a new

gate. You don't have to tell her. And if they tell her and she

grills you about it, you can just say that you're an adult and you

don't need her permission to talk to anyone. If they understand and

sympathize with your situation, you can even ask them not to let your

mother know you spoke. Of course, if you're trying to have a

relationship with someone who still lives with or is still enmeshed

with your mother, it will be trickier.

Interesting topic.

February 26, 2008

Not to minimize your situation but your comment about your 85 year

old nada kicking your mil's behind made me laugh. Thanks!

> I should also say that my nada did not stop at immediate family.

Once she had gone through blood relatives, she started on my in-laws

and friends. Just before I went NC, she told me that if she was not

85 years old, she would seek out my mother-in-law, wrestle her to

floor and " maul " her. I'm not adding anything for drama here -

that's what she said. She made this statement during a tirade about

how I had time for everyone but her. When I asked her if she thought

it was twisted that she was ranting about my mother-in-law, a woman

with whom she has no contact - she said she had plenty of energy to

hate her and that she enjoyed it. Mind you - my husband and I know

she dislikes my mother-in-law (very common with BP's whose children

are married), so I never mention my m-in-law to nada, so it's not

like she needs to even think about her. When I got home that day, I

told my husband - " my mother's going to kick your mother's ass. " We

had quite a laugh

> over it.

>

> Tag

>

February 26, 2008

No need to couch it - it was funny! If only I could get them in the roller

derby together!

Re: Is Your Nada/Fada the Gatekeeper?

Not to minimize your situation but your comment about your 85 year

old nada kicking your mil's behind made me laugh. Thanks!

> I should also say that my nada did not stop at immediate family..