Why Forgive?

February 23, 2008

" BPD is not like a chemical personality disorder

where something went out of whack in the brain. These people are able

to turn their abusive behavior on and off at will "

what? what information did you use to come to this conclusion?

> >

> > Why forgive? I read about it and I have talked about with my

> > therapist. There is an anger in me that is deep ... and before I

> > forgive my mother and sister, I want JUSTICE. I was the person who

> > was weak, beaten, and down trodden... victimized. When I asked for

> > mercy, I did not get it. Why should I bother to hand forgiveness out?

> > It just ticks me off(I wanted use stronger language!) that people

> > tell me this forgiveness garbage. I feel like saying " sure that easy

> > for you to say... let me beat you for awhile and see if you forgive

> > me. " Ha. You know what I want? I want JUSTICE. If I had a dream, it

> > would be to hire a 12 foot tall Judge Judy as my personal body guard

> > whose job is to always protect me. I want a judge to say I declare

> > you NOT CRAZY, and what your mother and sister have done is the worst

> > offense in the world. I want the judge to validate me, AND declare

> > that all the abuse was and is WRONG. And, it is NO WAY to treat

> > another human being. And, I have to say that if I am honest with the

> > feelings that are on my heart... I would like ten minutes in a boxing

> > ring with them ... five minutes alone in a room to dish back some of

> > the crap that was dish out to me. BPD people have all this freedom

> > and no one stops them. To me, they are bullies and it just doesn't

> > seem right to let them off the hook for all this garbage, and it

> > makes very very angry. I don't know if it is going overboard here,

> > but I have been to a German consentration camp. I just don't

> > understand the neighbors to a camp could ignore it and ignore the

> > people. It was like that for me with my BPD mother... everyone

> > watched... some joined in on the abuse... no one was the hero... no

> > one was a 12 foot tall Judge Judy. I think forgiveness is just plan

> > stupid, and it sets a person up for more abuse. Justice is my choice.

> >

>

February 23, 2008

I agree it's not an illness, and I've certainly seen they can control

their behaviour when it suits them. It's their nature to be abusive and

self-centred. Not sure that means they aren't worth forgiving, because

thats something I did for ME and not her...

> > For me, what makes it so hard to forgive is that... and some might

> > dispute me... is that BPD is not like a chemical personality

> disorder

> > where something went out of whack in the brain. These people are

> able

> > to turn their abusive behavior on and off at will

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

February 24, 2008

slingshot,

I have to respectfully disagree. My own nada has what can only be described as

blackouts.

(no alcoholism present as she is practically a teetotaler) I am retyping some

info from

Understanding The Borderline Mother by Ann Lawson.

page 11

********************************************************************************\

*********

Borderlines often forget painful experiences that their children remember

vividly. Studies

show that chronically intense emotions damage the part of the brain that is

responsible

for memory (Christianson, S. 1992, The Handbook of Emotion and Memory: Research

and

Theory) Chronic emotional stress exposes the brain to an excess of

glucocoriticoids,

hormones that normally help the brain cope with stress. The hippocampus, which

controls

memory function, contains a high number of glucocorticoid receptors and is

therefore

susceptible to damage (Schacter, D. 1996 Searching for Memory: The Brain, the

Mind, and

the Past.) Because borderline mothers experienced overwhelming emotional

distress as

children, areas in their brain responsible for memory and emotional regulation

may be

damaged. Studies using magnetic resonance imaging to examine the brains of

females

who were abused as children found that the left hippocampus was actually smaller

than

those in subjects from a control group.

********************************************************************************\

**********

I know that there are many incidents that my nada does not remember her part of

or only

bits and parts of. If I had not been witness to some of these encounters I

would believe

her version of events too. She sincerely believes her version of events because

that is all

she remembers. It is as if she has a track that leads to nowhere in her brain

and she just

does not store those memories. She does not process emotionally charged

encounters

the same as you or I would do.

Carla

> > >

> > > Why forgive? I read about it and I have talked about with my

> > > therapist. There is an anger in me that is deep ... and before I

> > > forgive my mother and sister, I want JUSTICE. I was the person who

> > > was weak, beaten, and down trodden... victimized. When I asked for

> > > mercy, I did not get it. Why should I bother to hand forgiveness out?

> > > It just ticks me off(I wanted use stronger language!) that people

> > > tell me this forgiveness garbage. I feel like saying " sure that easy

> > > for you to say... let me beat you for awhile and see if you forgive

> > > me. " Ha. You know what I want? I want JUSTICE. If I had a dream, it

> > > would be to hire a 12 foot tall Judge Judy as my personal body guard

> > > whose job is to always protect me. I want a judge to say I declare

> > > you NOT CRAZY, and what your mother and sister have done is the worst

> > > offense in the world. I want the judge to validate me, AND declare

> > > that all the abuse was and is WRONG. And, it is NO WAY to treat

> > > another human being. And, I have to say that if I am honest with the

> > > feelings that are on my heart... I would like ten minutes in a boxing

> > > ring with them ... five minutes alone in a room to dish back some of

> > > the crap that was dish out to me. BPD people have all this freedom

> > > and no one stops them. To me, they are bullies and it just doesn't

> > > seem right to let them off the hook for all this garbage, and it

> > > makes very very angry. I don't know if it is going overboard here,

> > > but I have been to a German consentration camp. I just don't

> > > understand the neighbors to a camp could ignore it and ignore the

> > > people. It was like that for me with my BPD mother... everyone

> > > watched... some joined in on the abuse... no one was the hero... no

> > > one was a 12 foot tall Judge Judy. I think forgiveness is just plan

> > > stupid, and it sets a person up for more abuse. Justice is my choice.

> > >

> >

>

February 25, 2008

I agree with you, deedome62. The BPDs that I know came from abusive

homes (in some form or fashion) -- I don't think it's some " thing "

you're born with like cystic fibrosis, or something. And as Dr.

says in her book " Bad Childhood, Good Life " you can decide for

yourself what kind of life you want, despite your upbringing. Our

BPD mothers and fathers ALL had that choice -- they all arrived at

the same crossroads -- and for whatever reason, they chose to keep

doing what they were doing. They looked into their innocent child's

eyes and kept doing it. They watched or stood by or kept silent

while others abused their children, etc., etc. They chose not to

stand up for their lives. And the consequences of that choice are

very real indeed to the helpless victims that were entrusted to

their care.

My mom's the BPD, and my dad is her #1 soldier. I grew up in that

household -- the anger, rages, selfishness, ignoring my brother and

I, discounting us and our feelings, getting drunk in front of us,

etc.

When I became a wife and mother I distinctly remember a turning

point: I had gone out with my husband for one of the first times

since I had my kids (they are 1 year apart) to a big fancy party. I

got SMASHED on wine. I came home and threw up. The next day, I

felt like a freight train was charging through my head. As I

struggled to get my kids breakfast, I realized something: " I can't

do my job as a mom if I'm in this shape. I'm shortchanging all of

us. " So, I never did that again. I refused that 3rd and 4th glass

of wine. I asked for coffee or water instead. My priorities were

clear: my children.

Despite growing up in the same type of household, my mother chose to

indulge herself (she didn't even bother to get out of bed to make us

breakfast half the time), but I chose my children. My life is

directed by THEIR needs right now -- and I accept that that's what I

signed up for when I gave birth to them. God willing, MY TIME will

come when they're out of the nest and I will have more free time to

nourish my passions. My mother made it clear we were a bother to

her.

We have choices in this life -- and our actions have consequences.

I'm so tired of everything being labeled a " disease " , thereby wiping

away any sense of personal responsibility. I understand certain

things might be more difficult for some than others, but we elevate

ourselves as human beings when we strive to achieve the difficult

things because we know it's best. Difficult is not impossible. We

can do difficult.

-Kyla

February 25, 2008

You go girlscout! That book is actually the standard by which many DBT

therapist treat BDP's.

Glad to read your posts.

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February 25, 2008

So, if forgiveness and acceptance are so important to

> health ... after being physically and mentally jumped on all my

> life ... explain how to get to these xanadu places of forgiveness

and

> acceptance? I have read, Stop Walking on Eggshells, Understanding

the

> Borderline Mother, and Surviving Borderline Parent. I get it but, I

> feel the way I feel. And, I will bet money that if I am struggle

> inside with these feelings other people are also.

I think anger is a normal(and NECESSARY)part of the journey. I think

it's safe to let yourself feel it for a while, especially if you have

a good therapist to help you. There's no need to feel ashamed of

being in that stage. Like I said earlier, it took me a really long

time. And it's not always a linear journey, either. Sometimes the

anger still surfaces for me. And, I'm willing to bet that if I

hadn't finally given myself permission to just FEEL ANGRY for a

while, I wouldn't have been able to move on. I think it's good that

you can say " I feel the way I feel. " Embrace that for a while. I

think once someone is able to own their own feelings, then they will

have the power to let them go. I wish I knew the magical

answer...but that's the best I can come up with.

February 25, 2008

>

Do I understand that BPD is a disorder/illness? Yes.

> Therapist say, " forgive. " No one has said to me, " acceptance. " I

am

> free. I don't not live nor am I in the same state as my BPDs. I

set

> boundaries and live a loving and happy life.

There is so much power in those words. I am seeing how this issue is

so gray but even after years of 12 step my gut instinct has always

been that people who insist on forgiveness for others are projecting

somehow their own insecurity about their own unresolved feelings

about the past. The level of violence that you have described is

heart-breaking. I hope my prior response didn't add fuel to the

fire, I was thinking more about how some people (bpds) are incapable

of being just. I think legal justice is valid and appropriate in a

situation like what you describe. I am glad the legal system has

moved toward recognizing the abuse instead of 'keeping the family

together'. I hope that your younger siblings can get out or action

can be taken to make them safe. I am sorry for what you have

suffered. I don't think a just god would ever ask someone

to 'forgive' the kinds of things that you describe, but that is just

my personal belief. I was responding more to the brain behavior part

of the post and not the 'forgiveness stuff', that stuff is private

and between me and god and nobody else. I have honestly never felt

that anyone ever wanted true forgiveness from me about this stuff, I

felt they wanted absolution, which is completely different and I

talked about that in a prior thread. I only know because I had to

make amends to people many times as part of a twelve step program,

and the way that I got forgiveness was by making amends. I didn't

ask to be forgiven, but I went before that person and described the

way in which I harmed them and apologized and tried to make it

right. I've never been on the receiving end of that kind of behavior

from the bpd in my family or the enablers, but I have been asked (by

implication or twisting facts) many times to pretend it didn't

happen/isn't happening so they won't have to face the truth and take

action about it. That is absolution, which I am not qualified to

grant. Like you, I am okay with where I am about this stuff, what

work is left to do about it is THEIRS. I think whatever higher power

there is simply wants me to protect MYSELF from it.

February 25, 2008

Wow, I'm facinated by this stuff about brain development and all. I just got

a book today called Skill Training Manual for Treating Borderline

Personality Disorder by Marsha M. Linehan. I'll let you know if I like it.

Of course, I don't expect that my mother would read or benefit from this

since she enjoys her sickness so much, I got the book for myself. My

boyfriend and I have talked about traits that I have that are similar to

BPD. I'm sure I don't have BPD, but sometimes I don't know how strongly to

respond to things. So I have learned a few of the negative thought patterns

from her.

Hears to unlearning! girlscout

>

> >

> Do I understand that BPD is a disorder/illness? Yes.

> > Therapist say, " forgive. " No one has said to me, " acceptance. " I

> am

> > free. I don't not live nor am I in the same state as my BPDs. I

> set

> > boundaries and live a loving and happy life.

>

> There is so much power in those words. I am seeing how this issue is

> so gray but even after years of 12 step my gut instinct has always

> been that people who insist on forgiveness for others are projecting

> somehow their own insecurity about their own unresolved feelings

> about the past. The level of violence that you have described is

> heart-breaking. I hope my prior response didn't add fuel to the

> fire, I was thinking more about how some people (bpds) are incapable

> of being just. I think legal justice is valid and appropriate in a

> situation like what you describe. I am glad the legal system has

> moved toward recognizing the abuse instead of 'keeping the family

> together'. I hope that your younger siblings can get out or action

> can be taken to make them safe. I am sorry for what you have

> suffered. I don't think a just god would ever ask someone

> to 'forgive' the kinds of things that you describe, but that is just

> my personal belief. I was responding more to the brain behavior part

> of the post and not the 'forgiveness stuff', that stuff is private

> and between me and god and nobody else. I have honestly never felt

> that anyone ever wanted true forgiveness from me about this stuff, I

> felt they wanted absolution, which is completely different and I

> talked about that in a prior thread. I only know because I had to

> make amends to people many times as part of a twelve step program,

> and the way that I got forgiveness was by making amends. I didn't

> ask to be forgiven, but I went before that person and described the

> way in which I harmed them and apologized and tried to make it

> right. I've never been on the receiving end of that kind of behavior

> from the bpd in my family or the enablers, but I have been asked (by

> implication or twisting facts) many times to pretend it didn't

> happen/isn't happening so they won't have to face the truth and take

> action about it. That is absolution, which I am not qualified to

> grant. Like you, I am okay with where I am about this stuff, what

> work is left to do about it is THEIRS. I think whatever higher power

> there is simply wants me to protect MYSELF from it.

>

February 25, 2008

Kyla:

The book is Skill Training Manual for Treating Borderline Personality

Disorder by Marsha M. Linehan. There is a workbook that goes with it.

Hope you find it interesting. If you have the workbook, let me know what you

think. I haven't seen it yet.

**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.

(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/

2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

February 25, 2008

Thanks, deedome. I think at almost 40, I can honestly say, I have resolved

that pain and anguish. I let it go I don't think by choice, but out of

necessity. It took a long time, but I was just so tired of holding on to it.

It was

just draining me emotionally. That was part of my decision to go LC with my

mother. I had been trying to " fix " her for so long and I finally realized

that I couldn't do it. I didn't want to argue anymore and I certainly didn't

want her negative influence on my children. With my personal situation, my

mother has agreed to get therapy, so I am supporting her with that, hence the

limited contact as opposed to the no contact.

Regarding your situation, I applaud your ability to get away from your

abuser. Taking a stand like this requires conviction and a respect for

yourself.

It's wonderful that you have that conviction and have demanded that respect.

Regarding the other posts where people have shared their ideas of

forgiveness, please don't take any of these posts as a " put down " as you stated.

The

people on this forum are caring individuals and your post was powerful. We all

feel for you and your pain. We all just responded to it because we wanted to

help in whatever way we knew how. You can take what works for you and leave

the rest. No matter what, just know that you can always express your true

feelings without being judged here.

**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.

(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/

2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

February 25, 2008

deedome62 wrote:

I don't think that I should be force to forgive or to accept anything

of the downright evil things that were done me and my siblings. I

don't think that forgiveness is a quick fix to BPD parent. If I

decided to do it or not, it is my choice and not because I am forced

to do. I have always been forced to be the bigger person, and I

refuse to do it now. I will not " forgive and forget " because I am

simply not ready to do. So, are you saying that my BPD mother is off

the hook for all her crap. And, I am not going to fake it. I feel

like I am being put down because of my opinion, and that my opinion

is not the text book ... forgiveness response. I will not deny my own

feelings.

>

> >

> > I can't answer how you get from point A to B. I wish I could

> answer that

> > question for you and for others. If I could, I'd probably be the

> richest

> > therapist on the planet and this web forum wouldn't be

necessary.

> Every person's

> > pain is different and every person's ability to move past it is

> different as

> > well, but it is about choices. I've chosen to get past the fact

> that my mother

> > used to physically abuse me also, I've chosen to let go of the

> fact that once

> > my mother took a knife to me in a crazed trance and stabbed my

> hand on which

> > there is a still a scar 20 years later. There are plenty of

other

> people on

> > this forum who also have similar horror stories. That's why we

> come here. It

> > brings us comfort that others know what we're going through.

> >

> > You stated, " I get it but, I feel the way I feel. And, I will bet

> money that

> > if I am struggling

> > inside with these feelings other people are also. "

> >

> > Of course we've all struggled with anger at some point or

> another. Some of

> > us still do and others of us don't. Holding on to or letting go

of

> the anger

> > doesn't make any one of us better than the other. Since this is

a

> forum where

> > we support one another, your anger is certainly appropriate. I

> and others have

> > been in a similar place and we understand where you're coming

> from. But you

> > posted the thread, " Why forgive? " and I presented an

alternative.

> Again,

> > acceptance has worked for me. Part of the purpose of this site

is

> not only to

> > provide a place for people to vent, but it is also a place for

> people to offer

> > alternative ways of thinking as to help one another move past the

> things that

> > hold us back as children of BP's.

> >

> > I just wanted to clarify that acceptance doesn't mean that you

> should accept

> > continuing abuse. It means accepting that there is nothing we

can

> do to

> > change the past. Accepting that there is a physiological reason

> for the abusive

> > behavior enables us to see that nothing we said or did warranted

> the abuse.

> > Understanding the reason for the abuse is only meant to help us

> realize that

> > there is nothing we did or said to deserve the abuse. It is

> simply a defect on

> > the abuser's part that caused them to behave abusively...simply

> put...it's not

> > our fault.

> >

> > Acceptance doesn't mean the behavior has to be excused. Any

> mental or

> > physical abuse is inexcusable, no matter what the cause,

> physiological or otherwise,

> > and should not be tolerated. The only thing we have control of

is

> how we

> > live our lives in the future. It doesn't mean that you have to

> accept your

> > mother and sister beating your siblings. That needs to be

> reported to the proper

> > authorities immediately...over and over again if it continues to

> happen.

> >

> > Perhaps you already have, but if you haven't made any reports

yet,

> you can

> > call your siblings' local division of youth services and

> anonymously report the

> > abuse. By law, they are required to follow up on any and all

> reports of

> > abuse. You can contact their school and notify their counselors

> of the abuse and

> > request the counselors speak with their teachers to request that

> they look out

> > for signs of abuse in their classrooms. They won't divulge any

> information on

> > your siblings to you as they do not have the authority to do that

> since

> > you're not their guardian, but they will at least have another

> piece of information

> > that can help your siblings.

> >

> > You took meaning from my following statement that I didn't intend

> to convey.

> > I stated, " Remember, wanting vengeance and justice is very much a

> BP trait.

> > They can't let go, but we should. It's the only way to make a

> better life for

> > ourselves. "

> >

> > That was in no way meant to imply that you are a BP. But the

> reality of it is

> > that we were raised by BP parents and some of our learned

> behaviors have to

> > be relearned. For example, one of the things I've been working

on

> in therapy

> > is how to be less controlling in my daughter's life and how to

> allow her to be

> > her own person and make her own mistakes. I learned controlling

> behavior from

> > my mother. Since we are not BP's, we are able to recognize the

> things that

> > hold us back, take responsibility for them, and then change

them.

> No one is

> > saying it is easy either. Just from reading all of the posts on

> this site, we

> > know that nothing about overcoming the effects of BP is easy.

> >

> > Acceptance doesn't mean that you can't be angry. No person can

> order another

> > to stop being angry. It can be suggested through this forum,

> however, that

> > the energy we use on the anger is wasted because nothing can be

> done to change

> > the past. When and only when a person is ready to let the anger

> go, is when

> > the anger will go. And if we choose to continue using our energy

> to fuel the

> > anger instead of other positive outlets, that is our choice, too

> and you won't

> > be judged here. We feel what we feel.

> >

> > We are amazing people...all of us who have come to this forum.

> Including you

> > and including me. We have found love in our lives, we are good

> parents, good

> > friends, we are productive members of our communities. We have

> taken steps

> > to find out what the problem is in our lives, we've recognized it

> as having a

> > BP parent, and we've empowered ourselves to do something about

> it...simply by

> > sharing our stories. What we do with our own stories after that

> is our own

> > personal decision. We are resilient but do we still have

> problems? Sure. Does

> > pain and resentment still rear its ugly head to us when least

> expected? Sure.

> > But in the end, how we challenge that pain and resentment is

what

> is going

> > to allow us to be as free as we possibly can be, on or not. It's

> not a

> > judgment on anyone's part. It is simply the reality of this

> horrible situation we

> > were born into.

> >

> > I really do wish you the best and hope you find your own way to

> one day

> > resolve your pain and anguish. That is what I wish for everyone

> in this forum.

> >

> > **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL

> Living.

> > (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-

eater/rachel-

> campos-duffy/

> > 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

> >

February 25, 2008

> > >

> > > I can't answer how you get from point A to B. I wish I could

> > answer that

> > > question for you and for others. If I could, I'd probably be

the

> > richest

> > > therapist on the planet and this web forum wouldn't be

> necessary.

> > Every person's

> > > pain is different and every person's ability to move past it

is

> > different as

> > > well, but it is about choices. I've chosen to get past the

fact

> > that my mother

> > > used to physically abuse me also, I've chosen to let go of the

> > fact that once

> > > my mother took a knife to me in a crazed trance and stabbed my

> > hand on which

> > > there is a still a scar 20 years later. There are plenty of

> other

> > people on

> > > this forum who also have similar horror stories. That's why

we

> > come here. It

> > > brings us comfort that others know what we're going through.

> > >

> > > You stated, " I get it but, I feel the way I feel. And, I will

bet

> > money that

> > > if I am struggling

> > > inside with these feelings other people are also. "

> > >

> > > Of course we've all struggled with anger at some point or

> > another. Some of

> > > us still do and others of us don't. Holding on to or letting

go

> of

> > the anger

> > > doesn't make any one of us better than the other. Since this

is

> a

> > forum where

> > > we support one another, your anger is certainly appropriate.

I

> > and others have

> > > been in a similar place and we understand where you're coming

> > from. But you

> > > posted the thread, " Why forgive? " and I presented an

> alternative.

> > Again,

> > > acceptance has worked for me. Part of the purpose of this

site

> is

> > not only to

> > > provide a place for people to vent, but it is also a place for

> > people to offer

> > > alternative ways of thinking as to help one another move past

the

> > things that

> > > hold us back as children of BP's.

> > >

> > > I just wanted to clarify that acceptance doesn't mean that you

> > should accept

> > > continuing abuse. It means accepting that there is nothing we

> can

> > do to

> > > change the past. Accepting that there is a physiological

reason

> > for the abusive

> > > behavior enables us to see that nothing we said or did

warranted

> > the abuse.

> > > Understanding the reason for the abuse is only meant to help

us

> > realize that

> > > there is nothing we did or said to deserve the abuse. It is

> > simply a defect on

> > > the abuser's part that caused them to behave

abusively...simply

> > put...it's not

> > > our fault.

> > >

> > > Acceptance doesn't mean the behavior has to be excused. Any

> > mental or

> > > physical abuse is inexcusable, no matter what the cause,

> > physiological or otherwise,

> > > and should not be tolerated. The only thing we have control

of

> is

> > how we

> > > live our lives in the future. It doesn't mean that you have

to

> > accept your

> > > mother and sister beating your siblings. That needs to be

> > reported to the proper

> > > authorities immediately...over and over again if it continues

to

> > happen.

> > >

> > > Perhaps you already have, but if you haven't made any reports

> yet,

> > you can

> > > call your siblings' local division of youth services and

> > anonymously report the

> > > abuse. By law, they are required to follow up on any and all

> > reports of

> > > abuse. You can contact their school and notify their

counselors

> > of the abuse and

> > > request the counselors speak with their teachers to request

that

> > they look out

> > > for signs of abuse in their classrooms. They won't divulge

any

> > information on

> > > your siblings to you as they do not have the authority to do

that

> > since

> > > you're not their guardian, but they will at least have another

> > piece of information

> > > that can help your siblings.

> > >

> > > You took meaning from my following statement that I didn't

intend

> > to convey.

> > > I stated, " Remember, wanting vengeance and justice is very

much a

> > BP trait.

> > > They can't let go, but we should. It's the only way to make a

> > better life for

> > > ourselves. "

> > >

> > > That was in no way meant to imply that you are a BP. But the

> > reality of it is

> > > that we were raised by BP parents and some of our learned

> > behaviors have to

> > > be relearned. For example, one of the things I've been

working

> on

> > in therapy

> > > is how to be less controlling in my daughter's life and how to

> > allow her to be

> > > her own person and make her own mistakes. I learned

controlling

> > behavior from

> > > my mother. Since we are not BP's, we are able to recognize

the

> > things that

> > > hold us back, take responsibility for them, and then change

> them.

> > No one is

> > > saying it is easy either. Just from reading all of the posts

on

> > this site, we

> > > know that nothing about overcoming the effects of BP is easy.

> > >

> > > Acceptance doesn't mean that you can't be angry. No person

can

> > order another

> > > to stop being angry. It can be suggested through this forum,

> > however, that

> > > the energy we use on the anger is wasted because nothing can

be

> > done to change

> > > the past. When and only when a person is ready to let the

anger

> > go, is when

> > > the anger will go. And if we choose to continue using our

energy

> > to fuel the

> > > anger instead of other positive outlets, that is our choice,

too

> > and you won't

> > > be judged here. We feel what we feel.

> > >

> > > We are amazing people...all of us who have come to this

forum.

> > Including you

> > > and including me. We have found love in our lives, we are

good

> > parents, good

> > > friends, we are productive members of our communities. We

have

> > taken steps

> > > to find out what the problem is in our lives, we've recognized

it

> > as having a

> > > BP parent, and we've empowered ourselves to do something about

> > it...simply by

> > > sharing our stories. What we do with our own stories after

that

> > is our own

> > > personal decision. We are resilient but do we still have

> > problems? Sure. Does

> > > pain and resentment still rear its ugly head to us when least

> > expected? Sure.

> > > But in the end, how we challenge that pain and resentment is

> what

> > is going

> > > to allow us to be as free as we possibly can be, on or not.

It's

> > not a

> > > judgment on anyone's part. It is simply the reality of this

> > horrible situation we

> > > were born into.

> > >

> > > I really do wish you the best and hope you find your own way

to

> > one day

> > > resolve your pain and anguish. That is what I wish for

everyone

> > in this forum.

> > >

> > > **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL

> > Living.

> > > (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-

> eater/rachel-

> > campos-duffy/

> > > 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

> > >

February 25, 2008

It is very much part of the process...I remember reading " Toxic

Parents " years ago and one of the things they said was that

confronting the parent was essential to recovery. I remember

watching a tv show on one of the major stations, it was

about 'forgiveness' and how effective it was in healing, but I found

it ironic that in every case they used for an example the child or

victim of abuse sat face to face with the perpetrator and enumerated

what they'd done and how it felt to be a victim of that behavior; it

made me think that it was probably the confrontation as much as if

not more than the forgiveness that was instrumental in healing, the

bringing into the light what happened and saying 'this is my

reality, this is what you did', and establishing that as 'truth'

before any progress could be made in the relationship. I can't

imagine living in a situation knowing my siblings were being abused.

I can't imagine anyone asking me not to be furious about that, the

only natural reaction is anger (and action). This is not so much a

response to your post as just something that popped into my head

about that book when I read it. I won't ever get that ability to

confront, I don't think, with my dad having a heart condition, etc.

I have a friend that did it, and it was a great thing for him to do,

it helped him alot to confront his abusive father. I will go out on

a limb and say it's probably more dangerous to ask someone to

suppress anger in order to appear as having forgiven than it is to

say 'of course you are angry, who wouldn't be' and let forgiveness

come when it is time for it, if ever. I think if people insist on it

it just feels shaming to the other person.

February 26, 2008

Some of my favorite forgiveness quotes:

Revenge is the most sincere form of forgiveness. - Italian Proverb

It's been said that " Hating is like drinking poison and expecting the

other person to die. " Evidence is abundant that resentment and hatred

literally is a poison that kills us physically. Forgiveness is looking

like a powerful antidote.

Anger makes you smaller, while forgiveness forces you to grow beyond

what you were.

****I try to forgive for my own sake, not for the person who hurt me.

Not rationalizing, forgetting, or allowing myself to trust that person

again. It is just a release of my own anger. All that anger eats

away at me, and I see myself becoming like my BPD mother and estranged

husband. Always bitter and angry and lashing out at the world.

Yes, the world is full of pain, but there are also wonderful things

about life like babies, puppies, and sunshine. And that is what I

choose to try to carry in my thoughts... not simmering boiling anger.

B.

February 26, 2008

This thread has reminded me of a poem by Blake...

I was angry with my friend:

I told my wrath, my wrath did end.

I was angry with my foe;

I told it not, my wrath did grow.

And I water'd it in fears,

Night & morning with my tears;

And I sunned it with my smiles

And with soft deceitful wiles.

And it grew both day and night,

Till it bore an apple bright;

And my foe beheld it shine,

And he knew that it was mine,

And into my garden stole