Guest guest Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Hi Jo,I read your post with interest and empathy. I especially identified with what you said about being able to walk away from an abusive partner or friend and not being able to do that with your mind. That is my biggest problem and most severe pain at the moment. Smetimes, it becomes unbearable and I think I am losing it. I have had some success with inviting the pain in and trying to hurt. It sounds like you are already doing that. I have had to do it repeatedly and continue to do so. Sometimes the pain is too much to experience at one time, so I have to back out and then do repeats. Don´t know if my comments are helpful, but I do wish you well in this difficult journey. Know that you are not alone,Phil Gosh Jo, That's a lot to work with. I hope you can find something that helps you. The people here are good to hang out with, they're very forgiving. While I read of your struggle my mind pulled up pictures. What sprung to mind is a metaphor...so... I imagined a glass of pure alcohol, no ice. That represents your pain, harsh and unforgiving when taken on its own. Then my mind turned to seeing an elaborate cocktail. Each ingredient representing the different flavours that we are made up of. Pain is in there along with anger and frustration, judgement and all the minds chatter (just to boot). We all are made up of this. Thankfully, the cup also contains compassion, patience, tolerance, care, willingness, joy and of course love. I'm not saying that we all feel the `thankfully' ingredients of the cup all the time. We swing, sometimes wildly, in all directions. That is human I guess. Maybe you will feel less resistant to one part of the experience in the knowledge that our experiences are made up of multiple parts and exist within both an internal and external world. Welcome and I wish you well, > > > Hello to the Group, > > > New to the group (any group for that matter) and not really comfortable > about putting this out there but I promised I would try. Going by what > I have read this past week, I am pretty much a novice in ACT. So if I > don't use the correct terminology apologies in advance, also for the > length, being concise is not a quality I own. > > General history is best known I guess. Suffer Chronic Depression, > Stress and Anxiety for just over 20 years, but I have also been > suffering for the past 16 years Chronic Pain. Now I know they are seen > as the same under ACT so when I say pain I actually mean my physical > pain - nerve pain, muscular spasm, headaches, facial, ear and eye pain, > arm and hand pain the list could go on but why bother going into the > medical side, you get what I am saying. > > I begged to be referred to a pain clinic 2 years ago as I was at my wits > end, 6 months later I was assigned to a Pain Clinic Psychologist who > recommend the Act approach, after all, done the psycho-analysis, > psychotherapy, psychiatrists and CBT and still was no further forward > in the long term. > > I am a year and half into ACT, and you would think I would have been > further forward but no, why....Resistance. It was only a few months ago > I became aware of my level of resistance, which seems to be to pretty > much everything, not just ACT but life/living. > > I have spent more time in this last year and a half thinking of dying > than living. I promised not to give up. Selling the idea to myself I > hadn't tried hard enough with ACT. Upon realising how my mind > resists, and waking up to the fact that thoughts are not me, I feel my > brain has gone to war, as I have with it. I trusted my thoughts to help > and I am sure it did on many stressful and frightful occasions, but all > the while it was helping me, at the same time it was emotionally and > mentally abusing me. I did not see that until now. Now unlike an > abusive partner or friend, whom you can walk away from, that's just > not possible with your thoughts. You can't fall out with them, or > can you......you can, but there's a catch you only end up creating a > bigger battle in your mind. But despite knowing this the realisation of > what my head has done to me has made me hate me (the thinking me), which > is leading to further resistance, even more than before and more > emotional pain on top of my physical pain, which I already find > impossible to accept. > > I am trying to push forward with mindfulness, doing courses in it too. > Forcing myself to sit with my horrible thinking self, that I hate, to > find that it's only creating more distress. Because my thinking > mind sees meditation time as party time to really mess with me, and its > chucking everything, including the kitchen sink at me and I am drowning > in a big way. > > Today was a full day mindfulness retreat, a day to truly develop your > mindfulness practice. I spent 3 hours sobbing, breaking down. I did > the" thank you mind", I did the" I am noticing the > thought" but it is said in a tone of anger and not kindness. Which > means I am still resisting what my head wanted me to look at. Today > started with mindful body movement (yoga), something I excelled in years > ago, but now triggers pain. So triggers the thoughts and the emotions > that go with the pain, "this is painful to do", "I don't > want to concentrate on the pain", "feel how much this really > hurts you", "this will never go away", "I want it > gone", "I want my old life back", "leave me depressed > anxious and stressed but take the pain away", "its getting > worst", "you're going to trigger a really big pain > episode". This then evolves into the big bombs, the thoughts I > cannot seem to diffuse from....."what are you go for > now"....."your good for nothing"......"but I have to be > good for something". I find I cannot diffuse from it at all, I want > an answer to them, and before you say acceptance that's not what I > mean, I want to know what I am good for?. And in regards to accepting > my pain if I could come to terms with accepting my chronic physical > pain, then for me, I am as good as saying "I am good for > nothing". I have totally bought into this, so much so it's > positively antique, but I want an answer "WHAT AM I GOOD FOR", > it's not going away and I can't diffuse from it, and can't > seem to sit with it either, so what do I do? > > The Body scan session was no better, nor was the loving kindness, nor > was the mindful walking, all I was consumed by today was physical pain > and I don't want to dwell on that, I can't do anything to change it, > it's for life and it's ruined my life. I spent time today > imagining the little river flowing past the lovely river bank, with the > beautiful tress and birds and squirrels, I could even smell the flowers, > but as soon as those leaves start coming it's not long before it > turns into a giant tidal wave with the word "PAIN" flashing > before me, and I am consumed and drowning again. I survived the day but > in my own way, I can't say it was very mindful. Disappointed in > myself, but understanding of why it turned out as it did. > > I have 's Book "Get out of your mind and into your > Life", I have the Compassionate Mind Book and many others. For me I > find ever word painful to read, mentally and physically, every exercise > feels like the ultimate challenge, I am unfit to meet. You see even > holding open a book causes pain, so before I even get to picking it up > and reading all the words I feel resistant to reading, I am already > thinking about pain, how much this will hurt, how long can I read for, > how much will writing out the exercises hurt...so before I even get > anywhere with my resistant thoughts about ACT and mindfulness, I am > already stuck, with getting my head around pain, I feel I have a life > time pass on the pain train not to mention the mind train, stuck on a > journey going the wrong way forever. > > I am trapped at present, before it seemed just to be about the physical > pain, now you can add my anger at my mind. I want to walk away from all > parts of me, but that's not possible (well there is one, commit the > Ultimate Experience Avoidance). I want my body back, fine mess with my > head leave me depressed just end the physical pain. I am always angry > and frustrated all the time. The more I am doing to get anywhere with > that, the worst it just seems to be getting. > > How is it possible that you can become aware of your resistance to then > develop even more resistance? > > I am completely and utterly lost with all of this. What am I not > getting, with ACT, Mindfulness, and Compassion to help me deal with all > of this. > > Jo > > PS, sorry this was so long, but if you took the time to read it all, > then I am grateful you did. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Hi Jo,I read your post with interest and empathy. I especially identified with what you said about being able to walk away from an abusive partner or friend and not being able to do that with your mind. That is my biggest problem and most severe pain at the moment. Smetimes, it becomes unbearable and I think I am losing it. I have had some success with inviting the pain in and trying to hurt. It sounds like you are already doing that. I have had to do it repeatedly and continue to do so. Sometimes the pain is too much to experience at one time, so I have to back out and then do repeats. Don´t know if my comments are helpful, but I do wish you well in this difficult journey. Know that you are not alone,Phil Gosh Jo, That's a lot to work with. I hope you can find something that helps you. The people here are good to hang out with, they're very forgiving. While I read of your struggle my mind pulled up pictures. What sprung to mind is a metaphor...so... I imagined a glass of pure alcohol, no ice. That represents your pain, harsh and unforgiving when taken on its own. Then my mind turned to seeing an elaborate cocktail. Each ingredient representing the different flavours that we are made up of. Pain is in there along with anger and frustration, judgement and all the minds chatter (just to boot). We all are made up of this. Thankfully, the cup also contains compassion, patience, tolerance, care, willingness, joy and of course love. I'm not saying that we all feel the `thankfully' ingredients of the cup all the time. We swing, sometimes wildly, in all directions. That is human I guess. Maybe you will feel less resistant to one part of the experience in the knowledge that our experiences are made up of multiple parts and exist within both an internal and external world. Welcome and I wish you well, > > > Hello to the Group, > > > New to the group (any group for that matter) and not really comfortable > about putting this out there but I promised I would try. Going by what > I have read this past week, I am pretty much a novice in ACT. So if I > don't use the correct terminology apologies in advance, also for the > length, being concise is not a quality I own. > > General history is best known I guess. Suffer Chronic Depression, > Stress and Anxiety for just over 20 years, but I have also been > suffering for the past 16 years Chronic Pain. Now I know they are seen > as the same under ACT so when I say pain I actually mean my physical > pain - nerve pain, muscular spasm, headaches, facial, ear and eye pain, > arm and hand pain the list could go on but why bother going into the > medical side, you get what I am saying. > > I begged to be referred to a pain clinic 2 years ago as I was at my wits > end, 6 months later I was assigned to a Pain Clinic Psychologist who > recommend the Act approach, after all, done the psycho-analysis, > psychotherapy, psychiatrists and CBT and still was no further forward > in the long term. > > I am a year and half into ACT, and you would think I would have been > further forward but no, why....Resistance. It was only a few months ago > I became aware of my level of resistance, which seems to be to pretty > much everything, not just ACT but life/living. > > I have spent more time in this last year and a half thinking of dying > than living. I promised not to give up. Selling the idea to myself I > hadn't tried hard enough with ACT. Upon realising how my mind > resists, and waking up to the fact that thoughts are not me, I feel my > brain has gone to war, as I have with it. I trusted my thoughts to help > and I am sure it did on many stressful and frightful occasions, but all > the while it was helping me, at the same time it was emotionally and > mentally abusing me. I did not see that until now. Now unlike an > abusive partner or friend, whom you can walk away from, that's just > not possible with your thoughts. You can't fall out with them, or > can you......you can, but there's a catch you only end up creating a > bigger battle in your mind. But despite knowing this the realisation of > what my head has done to me has made me hate me (the thinking me), which > is leading to further resistance, even more than before and more > emotional pain on top of my physical pain, which I already find > impossible to accept. > > I am trying to push forward with mindfulness, doing courses in it too. > Forcing myself to sit with my horrible thinking self, that I hate, to > find that it's only creating more distress. Because my thinking > mind sees meditation time as party time to really mess with me, and its > chucking everything, including the kitchen sink at me and I am drowning > in a big way. > > Today was a full day mindfulness retreat, a day to truly develop your > mindfulness practice. I spent 3 hours sobbing, breaking down. I did > the" thank you mind", I did the" I am noticing the > thought" but it is said in a tone of anger and not kindness. Which > means I am still resisting what my head wanted me to look at. Today > started with mindful body movement (yoga), something I excelled in years > ago, but now triggers pain. So triggers the thoughts and the emotions > that go with the pain, "this is painful to do", "I don't > want to concentrate on the pain", "feel how much this really > hurts you", "this will never go away", "I want it > gone", "I want my old life back", "leave me depressed > anxious and stressed but take the pain away", "its getting > worst", "you're going to trigger a really big pain > episode". This then evolves into the big bombs, the thoughts I > cannot seem to diffuse from....."what are you go for > now"....."your good for nothing"......"but I have to be > good for something". I find I cannot diffuse from it at all, I want > an answer to them, and before you say acceptance that's not what I > mean, I want to know what I am good for?. And in regards to accepting > my pain if I could come to terms with accepting my chronic physical > pain, then for me, I am as good as saying "I am good for > nothing". I have totally bought into this, so much so it's > positively antique, but I want an answer "WHAT AM I GOOD FOR", > it's not going away and I can't diffuse from it, and can't > seem to sit with it either, so what do I do? > > The Body scan session was no better, nor was the loving kindness, nor > was the mindful walking, all I was consumed by today was physical pain > and I don't want to dwell on that, I can't do anything to change it, > it's for life and it's ruined my life. I spent time today > imagining the little river flowing past the lovely river bank, with the > beautiful tress and birds and squirrels, I could even smell the flowers, > but as soon as those leaves start coming it's not long before it > turns into a giant tidal wave with the word "PAIN" flashing > before me, and I am consumed and drowning again. I survived the day but > in my own way, I can't say it was very mindful. Disappointed in > myself, but understanding of why it turned out as it did. > > I have 's Book "Get out of your mind and into your > Life", I have the Compassionate Mind Book and many others. For me I > find ever word painful to read, mentally and physically, every exercise > feels like the ultimate challenge, I am unfit to meet. You see even > holding open a book causes pain, so before I even get to picking it up > and reading all the words I feel resistant to reading, I am already > thinking about pain, how much this will hurt, how long can I read for, > how much will writing out the exercises hurt...so before I even get > anywhere with my resistant thoughts about ACT and mindfulness, I am > already stuck, with getting my head around pain, I feel I have a life > time pass on the pain train not to mention the mind train, stuck on a > journey going the wrong way forever. > > I am trapped at present, before it seemed just to be about the physical > pain, now you can add my anger at my mind. I want to walk away from all > parts of me, but that's not possible (well there is one, commit the > Ultimate Experience Avoidance). I want my body back, fine mess with my > head leave me depressed just end the physical pain. I am always angry > and frustrated all the time. The more I am doing to get anywhere with > that, the worst it just seems to be getting. > > How is it possible that you can become aware of your resistance to then > develop even more resistance? > > I am completely and utterly lost with all of this. What am I not > getting, with ACT, Mindfulness, and Compassion to help me deal with all > of this. > > Jo > > PS, sorry this was so long, but if you took the time to read it all, > then I am grateful you did. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Dear JoWelcome to the group.As so often when I read your sort of tale, I am struck and humbled by the immense bravery and perseverance shown by people who could so easily just give in. To keep going, even through gritted teeth (often that's the only way we can), even after having tried so many possible treatments and salves. Our minds will look at this history and say "look how I've failed", and refuse us the solace of "look how heroic I've been to keep going through it all".Anyway, I think you can tell that you are living your life through your pain and illness. Maybe ACT can help you live your life through your values, in spite of your pain and illness.I'm on a "values" drive this month, and my fellow ACTors will forgive me for banging the same drum. But maybe in your next post start by telling us some of the things that you enjoy doing, or would like to do but feel you are being deprived because of your mind's insistence to see things "its way". What might some of those things be? You gave a wonderfully detailed post, but nowhere did you give any hint as to who the "Real Jo" is. Who is the Real Jo underneath the pain and sadness? I'll sign-off before this becomes an Eminem song!Best wishes x To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Friday, 15 June 2012, 0:52 Subject: Resistance! Hello to the Group, New to the group (any group for that matter) and not really comfortable about putting this out there but I promised I would try. Going by what I have read this past week, I am pretty much a novice in ACT. So if I don't use the correct terminology apologies in advance, also for the length, being concise is not a quality I own. General history is best known I guess. Suffer Chronic Depression, Stress and Anxiety for just over 20 years, but I have also been suffering for the past 16 years Chronic Pain. Now I know they are seen as the same under ACT so when I say pain I actually mean my physical pain - nerve pain, muscular spasm, headaches, facial, ear and eye pain, arm and hand pain the list could go on but why bother going into the medical side, you get what I am saying. I begged to be referred to a pain clinic 2 years ago as I was at my wits end, 6 months later I was assigned to a Pain Clinic Psychologist who recommend the Act approach, after all, done the psycho-analysis, psychotherapy, psychiatrists and CBT and still was no further forward in the long term. I am a year and half into ACT, and you would think I would have been further forward but no, why....Resistance. It was only a few months ago I became aware of my level of resistance, which seems to be to pretty much everything, not just ACT but life/living. I have spent more time in this last year and a half thinking of dying than living. I promised not to give up. Selling the idea to myself I hadn't tried hard enough with ACT. Upon realising how my mind resists, and waking up to the fact that thoughts are not me, I feel my brain has gone to war, as I have with it. I trusted my thoughts to help and I am sure it did on many stressful and frightful occasions, but all the while it was helping me, at the same time it was emotionally and mentally abusing me. I did not see that until now. Now unlike an abusive partner or friend, whom you can walk away from, that's just not possible with your thoughts. You can't fall out with them, or can you......you can, but there's a catch you only end up creating a bigger battle in your mind. But despite knowing this the realisation of what my head has done to me has made me hate me (the thinking me), which is leading to further resistance, even more than before and more emotional pain on top of my physical pain, which I already find impossible to accept. I am trying to push forward with mindfulness, doing courses in it too. Forcing myself to sit with my horrible thinking self, that I hate, to find that it's only creating more distress. Because my thinking mind sees meditation time as party time to really mess with me, and its chucking everything, including the kitchen sink at me and I am drowning in a big way. Today was a full day mindfulness retreat, a day to truly develop your mindfulness practice. I spent 3 hours sobbing, breaking down. I did the" thank you mind", I did the" I am noticing the thought" but it is said in a tone of anger and not kindness. Which means I am still resisting what my head wanted me to look at. Today started with mindful body movement (yoga), something I excelled in years ago, but now triggers pain. So triggers the thoughts and the emotions that go with the pain, "this is painful to do", "I don't want to concentrate on the pain", "feel how much this really hurts you", "this will never go away", "I want it gone", "I want my old life back", "leave me depressed anxious and stressed but take the pain away", "its getting worst", "you're going to trigger a really big pain episode". This then evolves into the big bombs, the thoughts I cannot seem to diffuse from....."what are you go for now"....."your good for nothing"......"but I have to be good for something". I find I cannot diffuse from it at all, I want an answer to them, and before you say acceptance that's not what I mean, I want to know what I am good for?. And in regards to accepting my pain if I could come to terms with accepting my chronic physical pain, then for me, I am as good as saying "I am good for nothing". I have totally bought into this, so much so it's positively antique, but I want an answer "WHAT AM I GOOD FOR", it's not going away and I can't diffuse from it, and can't seem to sit with it either, so what do I do? The Body scan session was no better, nor was the loving kindness, nor was the mindful walking, all I was consumed by today was physical pain and I don't want to dwell on that, I can't do anything to change it, it's for life and it's ruined my life. I spent time today imagining the little river flowing past the lovely river bank, with the beautiful tress and birds and squirrels, I could even smell the flowers, but as soon as those leaves start coming it's not long before it turns into a giant tidal wave with the word "PAIN" flashing before me, and I am consumed and drowning again. I survived the day but in my own way, I can't say it was very mindful. Disappointed in myself, but understanding of why it turned out as it did. I have 's Book "Get out of your mind and into your Life", I have the Compassionate Mind Book and many others. For me I find ever word painful to read, mentally and physically, every exercise feels like the ultimate challenge, I am unfit to meet. You see even holding open a book causes pain, so before I even get to picking it up and reading all the words I feel resistant to reading, I am already thinking about pain, how much this will hurt, how long can I read for, how much will writing out the exercises hurt...so before I even get anywhere with my resistant thoughts about ACT and mindfulness, I am already stuck, with getting my head around pain, I feel I have a life time pass on the pain train not to mention the mind train, stuck on a journey going the wrong way forever. I am trapped at present, before it seemed just to be about the physical pain, now you can add my anger at my mind. I want to walk away from all parts of me, but that's not possible (well there is one, commit the Ultimate Experience Avoidance). I want my body back, fine mess with my head leave me depressed just end the physical pain. I am always angry and frustrated all the time. The more I am doing to get anywhere with that, the worst it just seems to be getting. How is it possible that you can become aware of your resistance to then develop even more resistance? I am completely and utterly lost with all of this. What am I not getting, with ACT, Mindfulness, and Compassion to help me deal with all of this. Jo PS, sorry this was so long, but if you took the time to read it all, then I am grateful you did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Dear JoWelcome to the group.As so often when I read your sort of tale, I am struck and humbled by the immense bravery and perseverance shown by people who could so easily just give in. To keep going, even through gritted teeth (often that's the only way we can), even after having tried so many possible treatments and salves. Our minds will look at this history and say "look how I've failed", and refuse us the solace of "look how heroic I've been to keep going through it all".Anyway, I think you can tell that you are living your life through your pain and illness. Maybe ACT can help you live your life through your values, in spite of your pain and illness.I'm on a "values" drive this month, and my fellow ACTors will forgive me for banging the same drum. But maybe in your next post start by telling us some of the things that you enjoy doing, or would like to do but feel you are being deprived because of your mind's insistence to see things "its way". What might some of those things be? You gave a wonderfully detailed post, but nowhere did you give any hint as to who the "Real Jo" is. Who is the Real Jo underneath the pain and sadness? I'll sign-off before this becomes an Eminem song!Best wishes x To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Friday, 15 June 2012, 0:52 Subject: Resistance! Hello to the Group, New to the group (any group for that matter) and not really comfortable about putting this out there but I promised I would try. Going by what I have read this past week, I am pretty much a novice in ACT. So if I don't use the correct terminology apologies in advance, also for the length, being concise is not a quality I own. General history is best known I guess. Suffer Chronic Depression, Stress and Anxiety for just over 20 years, but I have also been suffering for the past 16 years Chronic Pain. Now I know they are seen as the same under ACT so when I say pain I actually mean my physical pain - nerve pain, muscular spasm, headaches, facial, ear and eye pain, arm and hand pain the list could go on but why bother going into the medical side, you get what I am saying. I begged to be referred to a pain clinic 2 years ago as I was at my wits end, 6 months later I was assigned to a Pain Clinic Psychologist who recommend the Act approach, after all, done the psycho-analysis, psychotherapy, psychiatrists and CBT and still was no further forward in the long term. I am a year and half into ACT, and you would think I would have been further forward but no, why....Resistance. It was only a few months ago I became aware of my level of resistance, which seems to be to pretty much everything, not just ACT but life/living. I have spent more time in this last year and a half thinking of dying than living. I promised not to give up. Selling the idea to myself I hadn't tried hard enough with ACT. Upon realising how my mind resists, and waking up to the fact that thoughts are not me, I feel my brain has gone to war, as I have with it. I trusted my thoughts to help and I am sure it did on many stressful and frightful occasions, but all the while it was helping me, at the same time it was emotionally and mentally abusing me. I did not see that until now. Now unlike an abusive partner or friend, whom you can walk away from, that's just not possible with your thoughts. You can't fall out with them, or can you......you can, but there's a catch you only end up creating a bigger battle in your mind. But despite knowing this the realisation of what my head has done to me has made me hate me (the thinking me), which is leading to further resistance, even more than before and more emotional pain on top of my physical pain, which I already find impossible to accept. I am trying to push forward with mindfulness, doing courses in it too. Forcing myself to sit with my horrible thinking self, that I hate, to find that it's only creating more distress. Because my thinking mind sees meditation time as party time to really mess with me, and its chucking everything, including the kitchen sink at me and I am drowning in a big way. Today was a full day mindfulness retreat, a day to truly develop your mindfulness practice. I spent 3 hours sobbing, breaking down. I did the" thank you mind", I did the" I am noticing the thought" but it is said in a tone of anger and not kindness. Which means I am still resisting what my head wanted me to look at. Today started with mindful body movement (yoga), something I excelled in years ago, but now triggers pain. So triggers the thoughts and the emotions that go with the pain, "this is painful to do", "I don't want to concentrate on the pain", "feel how much this really hurts you", "this will never go away", "I want it gone", "I want my old life back", "leave me depressed anxious and stressed but take the pain away", "its getting worst", "you're going to trigger a really big pain episode". This then evolves into the big bombs, the thoughts I cannot seem to diffuse from....."what are you go for now"....."your good for nothing"......"but I have to be good for something". I find I cannot diffuse from it at all, I want an answer to them, and before you say acceptance that's not what I mean, I want to know what I am good for?. And in regards to accepting my pain if I could come to terms with accepting my chronic physical pain, then for me, I am as good as saying "I am good for nothing". I have totally bought into this, so much so it's positively antique, but I want an answer "WHAT AM I GOOD FOR", it's not going away and I can't diffuse from it, and can't seem to sit with it either, so what do I do? The Body scan session was no better, nor was the loving kindness, nor was the mindful walking, all I was consumed by today was physical pain and I don't want to dwell on that, I can't do anything to change it, it's for life and it's ruined my life. I spent time today imagining the little river flowing past the lovely river bank, with the beautiful tress and birds and squirrels, I could even smell the flowers, but as soon as those leaves start coming it's not long before it turns into a giant tidal wave with the word "PAIN" flashing before me, and I am consumed and drowning again. I survived the day but in my own way, I can't say it was very mindful. Disappointed in myself, but understanding of why it turned out as it did. I have 's Book "Get out of your mind and into your Life", I have the Compassionate Mind Book and many others. For me I find ever word painful to read, mentally and physically, every exercise feels like the ultimate challenge, I am unfit to meet. You see even holding open a book causes pain, so before I even get to picking it up and reading all the words I feel resistant to reading, I am already thinking about pain, how much this will hurt, how long can I read for, how much will writing out the exercises hurt...so before I even get anywhere with my resistant thoughts about ACT and mindfulness, I am already stuck, with getting my head around pain, I feel I have a life time pass on the pain train not to mention the mind train, stuck on a journey going the wrong way forever. I am trapped at present, before it seemed just to be about the physical pain, now you can add my anger at my mind. I want to walk away from all parts of me, but that's not possible (well there is one, commit the Ultimate Experience Avoidance). I want my body back, fine mess with my head leave me depressed just end the physical pain. I am always angry and frustrated all the time. The more I am doing to get anywhere with that, the worst it just seems to be getting. How is it possible that you can become aware of your resistance to then develop even more resistance? I am completely and utterly lost with all of this. What am I not getting, with ACT, Mindfulness, and Compassion to help me deal with all of this. Jo PS, sorry this was so long, but if you took the time to read it all, then I am grateful you did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Hi Jo, What a touching post. No, it wasn't too long, too uniformed, or too unfocused. I think you did a very fine job of describing a painful and stuck situation. Two things jump out at me. The first is what seems to be an abiding sense that you're doing it wrong, whatever " it " happens to be -- meditating, defusing, or posting a message on a list serve. Let me come back to that in a minute. The second thing to strike me is this question: why *should* your mind accept all this ACT business? If I were your mind, I might be saying something like this: " Nothing has worked yet. Not CBT; not psychoanalysis; not pills. None of it. ACT will be no different. In fact, each time you sit still or meditate, it hurts. So stop doing all that hocus-pocus, and start fixing the problem! If you can't do that one simple thing, then what are you good for? " Yes, if I were your mind I might say something like that. My mind does similar things, and I am not wrestling with anything approaching the physical pain you experience. So back to what appears to be an abiding sense that you are doing it wrong. " Resistance " is such a charged word. It implies that there is an easy solution, if only you can be smart enough to reach out and take it. Therefore, you must be doing it wrong, says any well-functioning human mind. But what if it is NOT the case that you are doing it wrong? What if, instead, this " resistance " is really your mind trying to help you out, sort of like the old nun who " helps " you by rapping your knuckles with a ruler? Both the nun and the mind are saying, " Pay attention and find the answer. Try harder! " If that's the case (and I'm not saying it is, but it might be) then maybe there's a bit of room for compassion toward your mind? As I wrote that last sentence, I became painfully aware of how preachy it sounded. Apologies. It is not my intent to lecture, especially when I know so little about your situation, but instead to raise the possibility that your mind is actually trying to help you find an antidote to the pain, despite all appearances. That question, " what am I good for, " may be one of the ways that your mind raps your knuckles to push you forward. If that were the case, it might answer your question, " How is it possible that you can become aware of your resistance to then develop even more resistance? " This " resistance " might be little more than your mind's unyielding desire to stay safe and avoid pain. That's its job. Regarding the difficulties with meditation, I loved your statement, " ...my thinking mind sees meditation time as party time to really mess with me... " Very eloquently stated. Between you and me, I can't meditate to save my life. Long ago, I tried to find relief through meditation. Lord, how I tried. But the truth is, I really have no desire to do it. I am thankful that meditative practices exist because they are useful to many people, but it just ain't my bag, baby. I find it to be an excruciating experience, and I have met a great many clients who feel the same way. And that's fine. Really, it is. Meditation is not the only path to freedom, nor is it a prerequisite to ACT. In your case, perhaps there is something to be gained by continuing to try. But it is also possible that meditation has taken on a counterproductive function. I wonder if it has become a weapon that you use in the hopes of winning this battle? If so, then it would make sense that meditation would result in more pain, more raps on the knuckles. I don't know. I'm getting too speculative, and I'm approaching 700 words. Time to stop. I do hope that the feedback you find on this forum is helpful. There are good and kind people here. Please keep us updated. T. , Psy.D. ironshrink.com > > > Hello to the Group, > > > New to the group (any group for that matter) and not really comfortable > about putting this out there but I promised I would try. Going by what > I have read this past week, I am pretty much a novice in ACT. So if I > don't use the correct terminology apologies in advance, also for the > length, being concise is not a quality I own. > > General history is best known I guess. Suffer Chronic Depression, > Stress and Anxiety for just over 20 years, but I have also been > suffering for the past 16 years Chronic Pain. Now I know they are seen > as the same under ACT so when I say pain I actually mean my physical > pain - nerve pain, muscular spasm, headaches, facial, ear and eye pain, > arm and hand pain the list could go on but why bother going into the > medical side, you get what I am saying. > > I begged to be referred to a pain clinic 2 years ago as I was at my wits > end, 6 months later I was assigned to a Pain Clinic Psychologist who > recommend the Act approach, after all, done the psycho-analysis, > psychotherapy, psychiatrists and CBT and still was no further forward > in the long term. > > I am a year and half into ACT, and you would think I would have been > further forward but no, why....Resistance. It was only a few months ago > I became aware of my level of resistance, which seems to be to pretty > much everything, not just ACT but life/living. > > I have spent more time in this last year and a half thinking of dying > than living. I promised not to give up. Selling the idea to myself I > hadn't tried hard enough with ACT. Upon realising how my mind > resists, and waking up to the fact that thoughts are not me, I feel my > brain has gone to war, as I have with it. I trusted my thoughts to help > and I am sure it did on many stressful and frightful occasions, but all > the while it was helping me, at the same time it was emotionally and > mentally abusing me. I did not see that until now. Now unlike an > abusive partner or friend, whom you can walk away from, that's just > not possible with your thoughts. You can't fall out with them, or > can you......you can, but there's a catch you only end up creating a > bigger battle in your mind. But despite knowing this the realisation of > what my head has done to me has made me hate me (the thinking me), which > is leading to further resistance, even more than before and more > emotional pain on top of my physical pain, which I already find > impossible to accept. > > I am trying to push forward with mindfulness, doing courses in it too. > Forcing myself to sit with my horrible thinking self, that I hate, to > find that it's only creating more distress. Because my thinking > mind sees meditation time as party time to really mess with me, and its > chucking everything, including the kitchen sink at me and I am drowning > in a big way. > > Today was a full day mindfulness retreat, a day to truly develop your > mindfulness practice. I spent 3 hours sobbing, breaking down. I did > the " thank you mind " , I did the " I am noticing the > thought " but it is said in a tone of anger and not kindness. Which > means I am still resisting what my head wanted me to look at. Today > started with mindful body movement (yoga), something I excelled in years > ago, but now triggers pain. So triggers the thoughts and the emotions > that go with the pain, " this is painful to do " , " I don't > want to concentrate on the pain " , " feel how much this really > hurts you " , " this will never go away " , " I want it > gone " , " I want my old life back " , " leave me depressed > anxious and stressed but take the pain away " , " its getting > worst " , " you're going to trigger a really big pain > episode " . This then evolves into the big bombs, the thoughts I > cannot seem to diffuse from..... " what are you go for > now " ..... " your good for nothing " ...... " but I have to be > good for something " . I find I cannot diffuse from it at all, I want > an answer to them, and before you say acceptance that's not what I > mean, I want to know what I am good for?. And in regards to accepting > my pain if I could come to terms with accepting my chronic physical > pain, then for me, I am as good as saying " I am good for > nothing " . I have totally bought into this, so much so it's > positively antique, but I want an answer " WHAT AM I GOOD FOR " , > it's not going away and I can't diffuse from it, and can't > seem to sit with it either, so what do I do? > > The Body scan session was no better, nor was the loving kindness, nor > was the mindful walking, all I was consumed by today was physical pain > and I don't want to dwell on that, I can't do anything to change it, > it's for life and it's ruined my life. I spent time today > imagining the little river flowing past the lovely river bank, with the > beautiful tress and birds and squirrels, I could even smell the flowers, > but as soon as those leaves start coming it's not long before it > turns into a giant tidal wave with the word " PAIN " flashing > before me, and I am consumed and drowning again. I survived the day but > in my own way, I can't say it was very mindful. Disappointed in > myself, but understanding of why it turned out as it did. > > I have 's Book " Get out of your mind and into your > Life " , I have the Compassionate Mind Book and many others. For me I > find ever word painful to read, mentally and physically, every exercise > feels like the ultimate challenge, I am unfit to meet. You see even > holding open a book causes pain, so before I even get to picking it up > and reading all the words I feel resistant to reading, I am already > thinking about pain, how much this will hurt, how long can I read for, > how much will writing out the exercises hurt...so before I even get > anywhere with my resistant thoughts about ACT and mindfulness, I am > already stuck, with getting my head around pain, I feel I have a life > time pass on the pain train not to mention the mind train, stuck on a > journey going the wrong way forever. > > I am trapped at present, before it seemed just to be about the physical > pain, now you can add my anger at my mind. I want to walk away from all > parts of me, but that's not possible (well there is one, commit the > Ultimate Experience Avoidance). I want my body back, fine mess with my > head leave me depressed just end the physical pain. I am always angry > and frustrated all the time. The more I am doing to get anywhere with > that, the worst it just seems to be getting. > > How is it possible that you can become aware of your resistance to then > develop even more resistance? > > I am completely and utterly lost with all of this. What am I not > getting, with ACT, Mindfulness, and Compassion to help me deal with all > of this. > > Jo > > PS, sorry this was so long, but if you took the time to read it all, > then I am grateful you did. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Hi Jo, What a touching post. No, it wasn't too long, too uniformed, or too unfocused. I think you did a very fine job of describing a painful and stuck situation. Two things jump out at me. The first is what seems to be an abiding sense that you're doing it wrong, whatever " it " happens to be -- meditating, defusing, or posting a message on a list serve. Let me come back to that in a minute. The second thing to strike me is this question: why *should* your mind accept all this ACT business? If I were your mind, I might be saying something like this: " Nothing has worked yet. Not CBT; not psychoanalysis; not pills. None of it. ACT will be no different. In fact, each time you sit still or meditate, it hurts. So stop doing all that hocus-pocus, and start fixing the problem! If you can't do that one simple thing, then what are you good for? " Yes, if I were your mind I might say something like that. My mind does similar things, and I am not wrestling with anything approaching the physical pain you experience. So back to what appears to be an abiding sense that you are doing it wrong. " Resistance " is such a charged word. It implies that there is an easy solution, if only you can be smart enough to reach out and take it. Therefore, you must be doing it wrong, says any well-functioning human mind. But what if it is NOT the case that you are doing it wrong? What if, instead, this " resistance " is really your mind trying to help you out, sort of like the old nun who " helps " you by rapping your knuckles with a ruler? Both the nun and the mind are saying, " Pay attention and find the answer. Try harder! " If that's the case (and I'm not saying it is, but it might be) then maybe there's a bit of room for compassion toward your mind? As I wrote that last sentence, I became painfully aware of how preachy it sounded. Apologies. It is not my intent to lecture, especially when I know so little about your situation, but instead to raise the possibility that your mind is actually trying to help you find an antidote to the pain, despite all appearances. That question, " what am I good for, " may be one of the ways that your mind raps your knuckles to push you forward. If that were the case, it might answer your question, " How is it possible that you can become aware of your resistance to then develop even more resistance? " This " resistance " might be little more than your mind's unyielding desire to stay safe and avoid pain. That's its job. Regarding the difficulties with meditation, I loved your statement, " ...my thinking mind sees meditation time as party time to really mess with me... " Very eloquently stated. Between you and me, I can't meditate to save my life. Long ago, I tried to find relief through meditation. Lord, how I tried. But the truth is, I really have no desire to do it. I am thankful that meditative practices exist because they are useful to many people, but it just ain't my bag, baby. I find it to be an excruciating experience, and I have met a great many clients who feel the same way. And that's fine. Really, it is. Meditation is not the only path to freedom, nor is it a prerequisite to ACT. In your case, perhaps there is something to be gained by continuing to try. But it is also possible that meditation has taken on a counterproductive function. I wonder if it has become a weapon that you use in the hopes of winning this battle? If so, then it would make sense that meditation would result in more pain, more raps on the knuckles. I don't know. I'm getting too speculative, and I'm approaching 700 words. Time to stop. I do hope that the feedback you find on this forum is helpful. There are good and kind people here. Please keep us updated. T. , Psy.D. ironshrink.com > > > Hello to the Group, > > > New to the group (any group for that matter) and not really comfortable > about putting this out there but I promised I would try. Going by what > I have read this past week, I am pretty much a novice in ACT. So if I > don't use the correct terminology apologies in advance, also for the > length, being concise is not a quality I own. > > General history is best known I guess. Suffer Chronic Depression, > Stress and Anxiety for just over 20 years, but I have also been > suffering for the past 16 years Chronic Pain. Now I know they are seen > as the same under ACT so when I say pain I actually mean my physical > pain - nerve pain, muscular spasm, headaches, facial, ear and eye pain, > arm and hand pain the list could go on but why bother going into the > medical side, you get what I am saying. > > I begged to be referred to a pain clinic 2 years ago as I was at my wits > end, 6 months later I was assigned to a Pain Clinic Psychologist who > recommend the Act approach, after all, done the psycho-analysis, > psychotherapy, psychiatrists and CBT and still was no further forward > in the long term. > > I am a year and half into ACT, and you would think I would have been > further forward but no, why....Resistance. It was only a few months ago > I became aware of my level of resistance, which seems to be to pretty > much everything, not just ACT but life/living. > > I have spent more time in this last year and a half thinking of dying > than living. I promised not to give up. Selling the idea to myself I > hadn't tried hard enough with ACT. Upon realising how my mind > resists, and waking up to the fact that thoughts are not me, I feel my > brain has gone to war, as I have with it. I trusted my thoughts to help > and I am sure it did on many stressful and frightful occasions, but all > the while it was helping me, at the same time it was emotionally and > mentally abusing me. I did not see that until now. Now unlike an > abusive partner or friend, whom you can walk away from, that's just > not possible with your thoughts. You can't fall out with them, or > can you......you can, but there's a catch you only end up creating a > bigger battle in your mind. But despite knowing this the realisation of > what my head has done to me has made me hate me (the thinking me), which > is leading to further resistance, even more than before and more > emotional pain on top of my physical pain, which I already find > impossible to accept. > > I am trying to push forward with mindfulness, doing courses in it too. > Forcing myself to sit with my horrible thinking self, that I hate, to > find that it's only creating more distress. Because my thinking > mind sees meditation time as party time to really mess with me, and its > chucking everything, including the kitchen sink at me and I am drowning > in a big way. > > Today was a full day mindfulness retreat, a day to truly develop your > mindfulness practice. I spent 3 hours sobbing, breaking down. I did > the " thank you mind " , I did the " I am noticing the > thought " but it is said in a tone of anger and not kindness. Which > means I am still resisting what my head wanted me to look at. Today > started with mindful body movement (yoga), something I excelled in years > ago, but now triggers pain. So triggers the thoughts and the emotions > that go with the pain, " this is painful to do " , " I don't > want to concentrate on the pain " , " feel how much this really > hurts you " , " this will never go away " , " I want it > gone " , " I want my old life back " , " leave me depressed > anxious and stressed but take the pain away " , " its getting > worst " , " you're going to trigger a really big pain > episode " . This then evolves into the big bombs, the thoughts I > cannot seem to diffuse from..... " what are you go for > now " ..... " your good for nothing " ...... " but I have to be > good for something " . I find I cannot diffuse from it at all, I want > an answer to them, and before you say acceptance that's not what I > mean, I want to know what I am good for?. And in regards to accepting > my pain if I could come to terms with accepting my chronic physical > pain, then for me, I am as good as saying " I am good for > nothing " . I have totally bought into this, so much so it's > positively antique, but I want an answer " WHAT AM I GOOD FOR " , > it's not going away and I can't diffuse from it, and can't > seem to sit with it either, so what do I do? > > The Body scan session was no better, nor was the loving kindness, nor > was the mindful walking, all I was consumed by today was physical pain > and I don't want to dwell on that, I can't do anything to change it, > it's for life and it's ruined my life. I spent time today > imagining the little river flowing past the lovely river bank, with the > beautiful tress and birds and squirrels, I could even smell the flowers, > but as soon as those leaves start coming it's not long before it > turns into a giant tidal wave with the word " PAIN " flashing > before me, and I am consumed and drowning again. I survived the day but > in my own way, I can't say it was very mindful. Disappointed in > myself, but understanding of why it turned out as it did. > > I have 's Book " Get out of your mind and into your > Life " , I have the Compassionate Mind Book and many others. For me I > find ever word painful to read, mentally and physically, every exercise > feels like the ultimate challenge, I am unfit to meet. You see even > holding open a book causes pain, so before I even get to picking it up > and reading all the words I feel resistant to reading, I am already > thinking about pain, how much this will hurt, how long can I read for, > how much will writing out the exercises hurt...so before I even get > anywhere with my resistant thoughts about ACT and mindfulness, I am > already stuck, with getting my head around pain, I feel I have a life > time pass on the pain train not to mention the mind train, stuck on a > journey going the wrong way forever. > > I am trapped at present, before it seemed just to be about the physical > pain, now you can add my anger at my mind. I want to walk away from all > parts of me, but that's not possible (well there is one, commit the > Ultimate Experience Avoidance). I want my body back, fine mess with my > head leave me depressed just end the physical pain. I am always angry > and frustrated all the time. The more I am doing to get anywhere with > that, the worst it just seems to be getting. > > How is it possible that you can become aware of your resistance to then > develop even more resistance? > > I am completely and utterly lost with all of this. What am I not > getting, with ACT, Mindfulness, and Compassion to help me deal with all > of this. > > Jo > > PS, sorry this was so long, but if you took the time to read it all, > then I am grateful you did. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Hey Jo I dont know if this will be any use to you at all, but when I first began ACT, I went through the same thing - massive resistance to meditation, beating myself up worse than I did before now that I was able to notice how much I avoided etc. For me, this was just a part of the process of mastering ACT. This happened because I had mastered defusion/acceptance enough to notice my avoidance and resistance but not enough to completely separate myself from these processes. So, in fact, for awhile I was self aware enough to notice my flaws but did not have enough practice at ACT to yet change my habits in a values guided direction. This created a lot of pain for awhile, and anger and resentment. But I kept going, and I got better at it, and now I feel I'm beginning to make some progress in my life. I no longer feel the resistance the way I used to. So maybe, this could be what you're going through, and if you stick with it it might get better? I know you said you've been doing it for a year and a half, but it might just take a bit longer for you because you have so much you have to deal with (physical, as well as psychological pain, and I imagine physical pain must be that much harder to deal with) and some of your issues have been with you for a very long time. Dont know if any of that is applicable to you or helps, but just a thought. > > > > > > Hello to the Group, > > > > > > New to the group (any group for that matter) and not really comfortable > > about putting this out there but I promised I would try. Going by what > > I have read this past week, I am pretty much a novice in ACT. So if I > > don't use the correct terminology apologies in advance, also for the > > length, being concise is not a quality I own. > > > > General history is best known I guess. Suffer Chronic Depression, > > Stress and Anxiety for just over 20 years, but I have also been > > suffering for the past 16 years Chronic Pain. Now I know they are seen > > as the same under ACT so when I say pain I actually mean my physical > > pain - nerve pain, muscular spasm, headaches, facial, ear and eye pain, > > arm and hand pain the list could go on but why bother going into the > > medical side, you get what I am saying. > > > > I begged to be referred to a pain clinic 2 years ago as I was at my wits > > end, 6 months later I was assigned to a Pain Clinic Psychologist who > > recommend the Act approach, after all, done the psycho-analysis, > > psychotherapy, psychiatrists and CBT and still was no further forward > > in the long term. > > > > I am a year and half into ACT, and you would think I would have been > > further forward but no, why....Resistance. It was only a few months ago > > I became aware of my level of resistance, which seems to be to pretty > > much everything, not just ACT but life/living. > > > > I have spent more time in this last year and a half thinking of dying > > than living. I promised not to give up. Selling the idea to myself I > > hadn't tried hard enough with ACT. Upon realising how my mind > > resists, and waking up to the fact that thoughts are not me, I feel my > > brain has gone to war, as I have with it. I trusted my thoughts to help > > and I am sure it did on many stressful and frightful occasions, but all > > the while it was helping me, at the same time it was emotionally and > > mentally abusing me. I did not see that until now. Now unlike an > > abusive partner or friend, whom you can walk away from, that's just > > not possible with your thoughts. You can't fall out with them, or > > can you......you can, but there's a catch you only end up creating a > > bigger battle in your mind. But despite knowing this the realisation of > > what my head has done to me has made me hate me (the thinking me), which > > is leading to further resistance, even more than before and more > > emotional pain on top of my physical pain, which I already find > > impossible to accept. > > > > I am trying to push forward with mindfulness, doing courses in it too. > > Forcing myself to sit with my horrible thinking self, that I hate, to > > find that it's only creating more distress. Because my thinking > > mind sees meditation time as party time to really mess with me, and its > > chucking everything, including the kitchen sink at me and I am drowning > > in a big way. > > > > Today was a full day mindfulness retreat, a day to truly develop your > > mindfulness practice. I spent 3 hours sobbing, breaking down. I did > > the " thank you mind " , I did the " I am noticing the > > thought " but it is said in a tone of anger and not kindness. Which > > means I am still resisting what my head wanted me to look at. Today > > started with mindful body movement (yoga), something I excelled in years > > ago, but now triggers pain. So triggers the thoughts and the emotions > > that go with the pain, " this is painful to do " , " I don't > > want to concentrate on the pain " , " feel how much this really > > hurts you " , " this will never go away " , " I want it > > gone " , " I want my old life back " , " leave me depressed > > anxious and stressed but take the pain away " , " its getting > > worst " , " you're going to trigger a really big pain > > episode " . This then evolves into the big bombs, the thoughts I > > cannot seem to diffuse from..... " what are you go for > > now " ..... " your good for nothing " ...... " but I have to be > > good for something " . I find I cannot diffuse from it at all, I want > > an answer to them, and before you say acceptance that's not what I > > mean, I want to know what I am good for?. And in regards to accepting > > my pain if I could come to terms with accepting my chronic physical > > pain, then for me, I am as good as saying " I am good for > > nothing " . I have totally bought into this, so much so it's > > positively antique, but I want an answer " WHAT AM I GOOD FOR " , > > it's not going away and I can't diffuse from it, and can't > > seem to sit with it either, so what do I do? > > > > The Body scan session was no better, nor was the loving kindness, nor > > was the mindful walking, all I was consumed by today was physical pain > > and I don't want to dwell on that, I can't do anything to change it, > > it's for life and it's ruined my life. I spent time today > > imagining the little river flowing past the lovely river bank, with the > > beautiful tress and birds and squirrels, I could even smell the flowers, > > but as soon as those leaves start coming it's not long before it > > turns into a giant tidal wave with the word " PAIN " flashing > > before me, and I am consumed and drowning again. I survived the day but > > in my own way, I can't say it was very mindful. Disappointed in > > myself, but understanding of why it turned out as it did. > > > > I have 's Book " Get out of your mind and into your > > Life " , I have the Compassionate Mind Book and many others. For me I > > find ever word painful to read, mentally and physically, every exercise > > feels like the ultimate challenge, I am unfit to meet. You see even > > holding open a book causes pain, so before I even get to picking it up > > and reading all the words I feel resistant to reading, I am already > > thinking about pain, how much this will hurt, how long can I read for, > > how much will writing out the exercises hurt...so before I even get > > anywhere with my resistant thoughts about ACT and mindfulness, I am > > already stuck, with getting my head around pain, I feel I have a life > > time pass on the pain train not to mention the mind train, stuck on a > > journey going the wrong way forever. > > > > I am trapped at present, before it seemed just to be about the physical > > pain, now you can add my anger at my mind. I want to walk away from all > > parts of me, but that's not possible (well there is one, commit the > > Ultimate Experience Avoidance). I want my body back, fine mess with my > > head leave me depressed just end the physical pain. I am always angry > > and frustrated all the time. The more I am doing to get anywhere with > > that, the worst it just seems to be getting. > > > > How is it possible that you can become aware of your resistance to then > > develop even more resistance? > > > > I am completely and utterly lost with all of this. What am I not > > getting, with ACT, Mindfulness, and Compassion to help me deal with all > > of this. > > > > Jo > > > > PS, sorry this was so long, but if you took the time to read it all, > > then I am grateful you did. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Hey Jo I dont know if this will be any use to you at all, but when I first began ACT, I went through the same thing - massive resistance to meditation, beating myself up worse than I did before now that I was able to notice how much I avoided etc. For me, this was just a part of the process of mastering ACT. This happened because I had mastered defusion/acceptance enough to notice my avoidance and resistance but not enough to completely separate myself from these processes. So, in fact, for awhile I was self aware enough to notice my flaws but did not have enough practice at ACT to yet change my habits in a values guided direction. This created a lot of pain for awhile, and anger and resentment. But I kept going, and I got better at it, and now I feel I'm beginning to make some progress in my life. I no longer feel the resistance the way I used to. So maybe, this could be what you're going through, and if you stick with it it might get better? I know you said you've been doing it for a year and a half, but it might just take a bit longer for you because you have so much you have to deal with (physical, as well as psychological pain, and I imagine physical pain must be that much harder to deal with) and some of your issues have been with you for a very long time. Dont know if any of that is applicable to you or helps, but just a thought. > > > > > > Hello to the Group, > > > > > > New to the group (any group for that matter) and not really comfortable > > about putting this out there but I promised I would try. Going by what > > I have read this past week, I am pretty much a novice in ACT. So if I > > don't use the correct terminology apologies in advance, also for the > > length, being concise is not a quality I own. > > > > General history is best known I guess. Suffer Chronic Depression, > > Stress and Anxiety for just over 20 years, but I have also been > > suffering for the past 16 years Chronic Pain. Now I know they are seen > > as the same under ACT so when I say pain I actually mean my physical > > pain - nerve pain, muscular spasm, headaches, facial, ear and eye pain, > > arm and hand pain the list could go on but why bother going into the > > medical side, you get what I am saying. > > > > I begged to be referred to a pain clinic 2 years ago as I was at my wits > > end, 6 months later I was assigned to a Pain Clinic Psychologist who > > recommend the Act approach, after all, done the psycho-analysis, > > psychotherapy, psychiatrists and CBT and still was no further forward > > in the long term. > > > > I am a year and half into ACT, and you would think I would have been > > further forward but no, why....Resistance. It was only a few months ago > > I became aware of my level of resistance, which seems to be to pretty > > much everything, not just ACT but life/living. > > > > I have spent more time in this last year and a half thinking of dying > > than living. I promised not to give up. Selling the idea to myself I > > hadn't tried hard enough with ACT. Upon realising how my mind > > resists, and waking up to the fact that thoughts are not me, I feel my > > brain has gone to war, as I have with it. I trusted my thoughts to help > > and I am sure it did on many stressful and frightful occasions, but all > > the while it was helping me, at the same time it was emotionally and > > mentally abusing me. I did not see that until now. Now unlike an > > abusive partner or friend, whom you can walk away from, that's just > > not possible with your thoughts. You can't fall out with them, or > > can you......you can, but there's a catch you only end up creating a > > bigger battle in your mind. But despite knowing this the realisation of > > what my head has done to me has made me hate me (the thinking me), which > > is leading to further resistance, even more than before and more > > emotional pain on top of my physical pain, which I already find > > impossible to accept. > > > > I am trying to push forward with mindfulness, doing courses in it too. > > Forcing myself to sit with my horrible thinking self, that I hate, to > > find that it's only creating more distress. Because my thinking > > mind sees meditation time as party time to really mess with me, and its > > chucking everything, including the kitchen sink at me and I am drowning > > in a big way. > > > > Today was a full day mindfulness retreat, a day to truly develop your > > mindfulness practice. I spent 3 hours sobbing, breaking down. I did > > the " thank you mind " , I did the " I am noticing the > > thought " but it is said in a tone of anger and not kindness. Which > > means I am still resisting what my head wanted me to look at. Today > > started with mindful body movement (yoga), something I excelled in years > > ago, but now triggers pain. So triggers the thoughts and the emotions > > that go with the pain, " this is painful to do " , " I don't > > want to concentrate on the pain " , " feel how much this really > > hurts you " , " this will never go away " , " I want it > > gone " , " I want my old life back " , " leave me depressed > > anxious and stressed but take the pain away " , " its getting > > worst " , " you're going to trigger a really big pain > > episode " . This then evolves into the big bombs, the thoughts I > > cannot seem to diffuse from..... " what are you go for > > now " ..... " your good for nothing " ...... " but I have to be > > good for something " . I find I cannot diffuse from it at all, I want > > an answer to them, and before you say acceptance that's not what I > > mean, I want to know what I am good for?. And in regards to accepting > > my pain if I could come to terms with accepting my chronic physical > > pain, then for me, I am as good as saying " I am good for > > nothing " . I have totally bought into this, so much so it's > > positively antique, but I want an answer " WHAT AM I GOOD FOR " , > > it's not going away and I can't diffuse from it, and can't > > seem to sit with it either, so what do I do? > > > > The Body scan session was no better, nor was the loving kindness, nor > > was the mindful walking, all I was consumed by today was physical pain > > and I don't want to dwell on that, I can't do anything to change it, > > it's for life and it's ruined my life. I spent time today > > imagining the little river flowing past the lovely river bank, with the > > beautiful tress and birds and squirrels, I could even smell the flowers, > > but as soon as those leaves start coming it's not long before it > > turns into a giant tidal wave with the word " PAIN " flashing > > before me, and I am consumed and drowning again. I survived the day but > > in my own way, I can't say it was very mindful. Disappointed in > > myself, but understanding of why it turned out as it did. > > > > I have 's Book " Get out of your mind and into your > > Life " , I have the Compassionate Mind Book and many others. For me I > > find ever word painful to read, mentally and physically, every exercise > > feels like the ultimate challenge, I am unfit to meet. You see even > > holding open a book causes pain, so before I even get to picking it up > > and reading all the words I feel resistant to reading, I am already > > thinking about pain, how much this will hurt, how long can I read for, > > how much will writing out the exercises hurt...so before I even get > > anywhere with my resistant thoughts about ACT and mindfulness, I am > > already stuck, with getting my head around pain, I feel I have a life > > time pass on the pain train not to mention the mind train, stuck on a > > journey going the wrong way forever. > > > > I am trapped at present, before it seemed just to be about the physical > > pain, now you can add my anger at my mind. I want to walk away from all > > parts of me, but that's not possible (well there is one, commit the > > Ultimate Experience Avoidance). I want my body back, fine mess with my > > head leave me depressed just end the physical pain. I am always angry > > and frustrated all the time. The more I am doing to get anywhere with > > that, the worst it just seems to be getting. > > > > How is it possible that you can become aware of your resistance to then > > develop even more resistance? > > > > I am completely and utterly lost with all of this. What am I not > > getting, with ACT, Mindfulness, and Compassion to help me deal with all > > of this. > > > > Jo > > > > PS, sorry this was so long, but if you took the time to read it all, > > then I am grateful you did. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Hi Jo. Welcome.Mindfulness is like swimming or riding a bike: takes time to learn, time spent in practice. Keep going back. Acceptance is about moving toward rather than running away. Maybe try telling us what pain is? Like we have never experienced it before (I also have chronic pain, so we are siblings), like you are an explorer bring back tales of a new land. Personally, I think having thoughts about pain while experiencing pain is not very surprising.... D Hello to the Group, New to the group (any group for that matter) and not really comfortable about putting this out there but I promised I would try. Going by what I have read this past week, I am pretty much a novice in ACT. So if I don't use the correct terminology apologies in advance, also for the length, being concise is not a quality I own. General history is best known I guess. Suffer Chronic Depression, Stress and Anxiety for just over 20 years, but I have also been suffering for the past 16 years Chronic Pain. Now I know they are seen as the same under ACT so when I say pain I actually mean my physical pain - nerve pain, muscular spasm, headaches, facial, ear and eye pain, arm and hand pain the list could go on but why bother going into the medical side, you get what I am saying. I begged to be referred to a pain clinic 2 years ago as I was at my wits end, 6 months later I was assigned to a Pain Clinic Psychologist who recommend the Act approach, after all, done the psycho-analysis, psychotherapy, psychiatrists and CBT and still was no further forward in the long term. I am a year and half into ACT, and you would think I would have been further forward but no, why....Resistance. It was only a few months ago I became aware of my level of resistance, which seems to be to pretty much everything, not just ACT but life/living. I have spent more time in this last year and a half thinking of dying than living. I promised not to give up. Selling the idea to myself I hadn't tried hard enough with ACT. Upon realising how my mind resists, and waking up to the fact that thoughts are not me, I feel my brain has gone to war, as I have with it. I trusted my thoughts to help and I am sure it did on many stressful and frightful occasions, but all the while it was helping me, at the same time it was emotionally and mentally abusing me. I did not see that until now. Now unlike an abusive partner or friend, whom you can walk away from, that's just not possible with your thoughts. You can't fall out with them, or can you......you can, but there's a catch you only end up creating a bigger battle in your mind. But despite knowing this the realisation of what my head has done to me has made me hate me (the thinking me), which is leading to further resistance, even more than before and more emotional pain on top of my physical pain, which I already find impossible to accept. I am trying to push forward with mindfulness, doing courses in it too. Forcing myself to sit with my horrible thinking self, that I hate, to find that it's only creating more distress. Because my thinking mind sees meditation time as party time to really mess with me, and its chucking everything, including the kitchen sink at me and I am drowning in a big way. Today was a full day mindfulness retreat, a day to truly develop your mindfulness practice. I spent 3 hours sobbing, breaking down. I did the " thank you mind " , I did the " I am noticing the thought " but it is said in a tone of anger and not kindness. Which means I am still resisting what my head wanted me to look at. Today started with mindful body movement (yoga), something I excelled in years ago, but now triggers pain. So triggers the thoughts and the emotions that go with the pain, " this is painful to do " , " I don't want to concentrate on the pain " , " feel how much this really hurts you " , " this will never go away " , " I want it gone " , " I want my old life back " , " leave me depressed anxious and stressed but take the pain away " , " its getting worst " , " you're going to trigger a really big pain episode " . This then evolves into the big bombs, the thoughts I cannot seem to diffuse from..... " what are you go for now " ..... " your good for nothing " ...... " but I have to be good for something " . I find I cannot diffuse from it at all, I want an answer to them, and before you say acceptance that's not what I mean, I want to know what I am good for?. And in regards to accepting my pain if I could come to terms with accepting my chronic physical pain, then for me, I am as good as saying " I am good for nothing " . I have totally bought into this, so much so it's positively antique, but I want an answer " WHAT AM I GOOD FOR " , it's not going away and I can't diffuse from it, and can't seem to sit with it either, so what do I do? The Body scan session was no better, nor was the loving kindness, nor was the mindful walking, all I was consumed by today was physical pain and I don't want to dwell on that, I can't do anything to change it, it's for life and it's ruined my life. I spent time today imagining the little river flowing past the lovely river bank, with the beautiful tress and birds and squirrels, I could even smell the flowers, but as soon as those leaves start coming it's not long before it turns into a giant tidal wave with the word " PAIN " flashing before me, and I am consumed and drowning again. I survived the day but in my own way, I can't say it was very mindful. Disappointed in myself, but understanding of why it turned out as it did. I have 's Book " Get out of your mind and into your Life " , I have the Compassionate Mind Book and many others. For me I find ever word painful to read, mentally and physically, every exercise feels like the ultimate challenge, I am unfit to meet. You see even holding open a book causes pain, so before I even get to picking it up and reading all the words I feel resistant to reading, I am already thinking about pain, how much this will hurt, how long can I read for, how much will writing out the exercises hurt...so before I even get anywhere with my resistant thoughts about ACT and mindfulness, I am already stuck, with getting my head around pain, I feel I have a life time pass on the pain train not to mention the mind train, stuck on a journey going the wrong way forever. I am trapped at present, before it seemed just to be about the physical pain, now you can add my anger at my mind. I want to walk away from all parts of me, but that's not possible (well there is one, commit the Ultimate Experience Avoidance). I want my body back, fine mess with my head leave me depressed just end the physical pain. I am always angry and frustrated all the time. The more I am doing to get anywhere with that, the worst it just seems to be getting. How is it possible that you can become aware of your resistance to then develop even more resistance? I am completely and utterly lost with all of this. What am I not getting, with ACT, Mindfulness, and Compassion to help me deal with all of this. Jo PS, sorry this was so long, but if you took the time to read it all, then I am grateful you did. -- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Hi Jo. Welcome.Mindfulness is like swimming or riding a bike: takes time to learn, time spent in practice. Keep going back. Acceptance is about moving toward rather than running away. Maybe try telling us what pain is? Like we have never experienced it before (I also have chronic pain, so we are siblings), like you are an explorer bring back tales of a new land. Personally, I think having thoughts about pain while experiencing pain is not very surprising.... D Hello to the Group, New to the group (any group for that matter) and not really comfortable about putting this out there but I promised I would try. Going by what I have read this past week, I am pretty much a novice in ACT. So if I don't use the correct terminology apologies in advance, also for the length, being concise is not a quality I own. General history is best known I guess. Suffer Chronic Depression, Stress and Anxiety for just over 20 years, but I have also been suffering for the past 16 years Chronic Pain. Now I know they are seen as the same under ACT so when I say pain I actually mean my physical pain - nerve pain, muscular spasm, headaches, facial, ear and eye pain, arm and hand pain the list could go on but why bother going into the medical side, you get what I am saying. I begged to be referred to a pain clinic 2 years ago as I was at my wits end, 6 months later I was assigned to a Pain Clinic Psychologist who recommend the Act approach, after all, done the psycho-analysis, psychotherapy, psychiatrists and CBT and still was no further forward in the long term. I am a year and half into ACT, and you would think I would have been further forward but no, why....Resistance. It was only a few months ago I became aware of my level of resistance, which seems to be to pretty much everything, not just ACT but life/living. I have spent more time in this last year and a half thinking of dying than living. I promised not to give up. Selling the idea to myself I hadn't tried hard enough with ACT. Upon realising how my mind resists, and waking up to the fact that thoughts are not me, I feel my brain has gone to war, as I have with it. I trusted my thoughts to help and I am sure it did on many stressful and frightful occasions, but all the while it was helping me, at the same time it was emotionally and mentally abusing me. I did not see that until now. Now unlike an abusive partner or friend, whom you can walk away from, that's just not possible with your thoughts. You can't fall out with them, or can you......you can, but there's a catch you only end up creating a bigger battle in your mind. But despite knowing this the realisation of what my head has done to me has made me hate me (the thinking me), which is leading to further resistance, even more than before and more emotional pain on top of my physical pain, which I already find impossible to accept. I am trying to push forward with mindfulness, doing courses in it too. Forcing myself to sit with my horrible thinking self, that I hate, to find that it's only creating more distress. Because my thinking mind sees meditation time as party time to really mess with me, and its chucking everything, including the kitchen sink at me and I am drowning in a big way. Today was a full day mindfulness retreat, a day to truly develop your mindfulness practice. I spent 3 hours sobbing, breaking down. I did the " thank you mind " , I did the " I am noticing the thought " but it is said in a tone of anger and not kindness. Which means I am still resisting what my head wanted me to look at. Today started with mindful body movement (yoga), something I excelled in years ago, but now triggers pain. So triggers the thoughts and the emotions that go with the pain, " this is painful to do " , " I don't want to concentrate on the pain " , " feel how much this really hurts you " , " this will never go away " , " I want it gone " , " I want my old life back " , " leave me depressed anxious and stressed but take the pain away " , " its getting worst " , " you're going to trigger a really big pain episode " . This then evolves into the big bombs, the thoughts I cannot seem to diffuse from..... " what are you go for now " ..... " your good for nothing " ...... " but I have to be good for something " . I find I cannot diffuse from it at all, I want an answer to them, and before you say acceptance that's not what I mean, I want to know what I am good for?. And in regards to accepting my pain if I could come to terms with accepting my chronic physical pain, then for me, I am as good as saying " I am good for nothing " . I have totally bought into this, so much so it's positively antique, but I want an answer " WHAT AM I GOOD FOR " , it's not going away and I can't diffuse from it, and can't seem to sit with it either, so what do I do? The Body scan session was no better, nor was the loving kindness, nor was the mindful walking, all I was consumed by today was physical pain and I don't want to dwell on that, I can't do anything to change it, it's for life and it's ruined my life. I spent time today imagining the little river flowing past the lovely river bank, with the beautiful tress and birds and squirrels, I could even smell the flowers, but as soon as those leaves start coming it's not long before it turns into a giant tidal wave with the word " PAIN " flashing before me, and I am consumed and drowning again. I survived the day but in my own way, I can't say it was very mindful. Disappointed in myself, but understanding of why it turned out as it did. I have 's Book " Get out of your mind and into your Life " , I have the Compassionate Mind Book and many others. For me I find ever word painful to read, mentally and physically, every exercise feels like the ultimate challenge, I am unfit to meet. You see even holding open a book causes pain, so before I even get to picking it up and reading all the words I feel resistant to reading, I am already thinking about pain, how much this will hurt, how long can I read for, how much will writing out the exercises hurt...so before I even get anywhere with my resistant thoughts about ACT and mindfulness, I am already stuck, with getting my head around pain, I feel I have a life time pass on the pain train not to mention the mind train, stuck on a journey going the wrong way forever. I am trapped at present, before it seemed just to be about the physical pain, now you can add my anger at my mind. I want to walk away from all parts of me, but that's not possible (well there is one, commit the Ultimate Experience Avoidance). I want my body back, fine mess with my head leave me depressed just end the physical pain. I am always angry and frustrated all the time. The more I am doing to get anywhere with that, the worst it just seems to be getting. How is it possible that you can become aware of your resistance to then develop even more resistance? I am completely and utterly lost with all of this. What am I not getting, with ACT, Mindfulness, and Compassion to help me deal with all of this. Jo PS, sorry this was so long, but if you took the time to read it all, then I am grateful you did. -- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 hI "I imagined a glass of pure alcohol, no ice."I can't help smiling at this, as I imagine the pictures that came to your mind...--- someone is struggling-- I experienced that recently -- I forgive hurting myself -- I love alcohol -- It sometimes brings out good qualities like patience and joy in people -- -- I hate alcohol -- It induces regrettable behaviors -- My mind is like an elaborate cocktail -- Let's enjoy a good cup in balance-- I still have reservation to use alcohol excessively to fight demons...I had been keeping a bong for weed in my home for 10 years, shifting it around it's hiding place during occasional house cleaning. All this while, heroin and alcohol kept me busy.Finally, I threw the bong away yesterday. Realizing and awareness of how RFT works on my mind helped end my struggle with this bong.TC>> Gosh Jo,> > That's a lot to work with. I hope you can find something that helps you. The people here are good to hang out with, they're very forgiving. > > While I read of your struggle my mind pulled up pictures. What sprung to mind is a metaphor...so...> > I imagined a glass of pure alcohol, no ice. That represents your pain, harsh and unforgiving when taken on its own.> > Then my mind turned to seeing an elaborate cocktail. Each ingredient representing the different flavours that we are made up of. Pain is in there along with anger and frustration, judgement and all the minds chatter (just to boot). We all are made up of this. Thankfully, the cup also contains compassion, patience, tolerance, care, willingness, joy and of course love.> > I'm not saying that we all feel the `thankfully' ingredients of the cup all the time. We swing, sometimes wildly, in all directions. That is human I guess. Maybe you will feel less resistant to one part of the experience in the knowledge that our experiences are made up of multiple parts and exist within both an internal and external world. > > Welcome and I wish you well,> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 hI "I imagined a glass of pure alcohol, no ice."I can't help smiling at this, as I imagine the pictures that came to your mind...--- someone is struggling-- I experienced that recently -- I forgive hurting myself -- I love alcohol -- It sometimes brings out good qualities like patience and joy in people -- -- I hate alcohol -- It induces regrettable behaviors -- My mind is like an elaborate cocktail -- Let's enjoy a good cup in balance-- I still have reservation to use alcohol excessively to fight demons...I had been keeping a bong for weed in my home for 10 years, shifting it around it's hiding place during occasional house cleaning. All this while, heroin and alcohol kept me busy.Finally, I threw the bong away yesterday. Realizing and awareness of how RFT works on my mind helped end my struggle with this bong.TC>> Gosh Jo,> > That's a lot to work with. I hope you can find something that helps you. The people here are good to hang out with, they're very forgiving. > > While I read of your struggle my mind pulled up pictures. What sprung to mind is a metaphor...so...> > I imagined a glass of pure alcohol, no ice. That represents your pain, harsh and unforgiving when taken on its own.> > Then my mind turned to seeing an elaborate cocktail. Each ingredient representing the different flavours that we are made up of. Pain is in there along with anger and frustration, judgement and all the minds chatter (just to boot). We all are made up of this. Thankfully, the cup also contains compassion, patience, tolerance, care, willingness, joy and of course love.> > I'm not saying that we all feel the `thankfully' ingredients of the cup all the time. We swing, sometimes wildly, in all directions. That is human I guess. Maybe you will feel less resistant to one part of the experience in the knowledge that our experiences are made up of multiple parts and exist within both an internal and external world. > > Welcome and I wish you well,> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Hi Really like this uplifting post of yours.I wanna be an ACTor playing the hero who chase after the Real Me,not the one who fights demons.I stumbled upon a goal of finding who I really am in my recovery, during loo session earlier. Had a smile:) thinking of the wonder, curiosity and the rediscovered surprises I'd get along this goal's journal.TC>> Dear Jo> > Welcome to the group.> > As so often when I read your sort of tale, I am struck and humbled by the immense bravery and perseverance shown by people who could so easily just give in. To keep going, even through gritted teeth (often that's the only way we can), even after having tried so many possible treatments and salves. Our minds will look at this history and say "look how I've failed", and refuse us the solace of "look how heroic I've been to keep going through it all".> > > Anyway, I think you can tell that you are living your life through your pain and illness. Maybe ACT can help you live your life through your values, in spite of your pain and illness.> > I'm on a "values" drive this month, and my fellow ACTors will forgive me for banging the same drum. But maybe in your next post start by telling us some of the things that you enjoy doing, or would like to do but feel you are being deprived because of your mind's insistence to see things "its way". What might some of those things be? > > > You gave a wonderfully detailed post, but nowhere did you give any hint as to who the "Real Jo" is. Who is the Real Jo underneath the pain and sadness? > > > I'll sign-off before this becomes an Eminem song!> > > Best wishes> > x> > > > > > ________________________________> To: ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Friday, 15 June 2012, 0:52> Subject: Resistance!> > >  > Hello to the Group, > > New to the group (any group for that matter) and not really> comfortable about putting this out there but I promised I would try.  Going by what I have read this past week, I am> pretty much a novice in ACT. So if I don't> use the correct terminology apologies in advance, also for the length, being> concise is not a quality I own.> General history is best known I guess. Suffer Chronic  Depression, Stress and Anxiety for just over> 20 years, but I have also been suffering for the past 16 years Chronic Pain. Now I know they are seen as the same under> ACT so when I say pain I actually mean my physical pain - nerve pain, muscular> spasm, headaches, facial, ear and eye pain, arm and hand pain the list could go on but why bother going into the medical side, you get what I am saying. > I begged to be referred to a pain clinic 2 years ago as I> was at my wits end, 6 months later I was assigned to a Pain Clinic Psychologist> who recommend the Act approach, after all, done the psycho-analysis, psychotherapy,> psychiatrists  and CBT and still was no> further forward in the long term. > I am a year and half into ACT, and you would think I would> have been further forward but no, why....Resistance. It was only a few months ago I became aware> of my level of resistance, which seems to be to pretty much everything, not> just ACT but life/living.> I have spent more time in this last year and a half thinking> of dying than living. I promised not to> give up. Selling the idea to myself I> hadn't tried hard enough with ACT. Upon realising> how my mind resists, and waking up to the fact that thoughts are not me, I feel> my brain has gone to war, as I have with it. I trusted my thoughts to help and I am sure it did on many stressful and> frightful occasions, but all the while it was helping me, at the same time it> was emotionally and mentally abusing me. I did not see that until now. Now> unlike an abusive partner or friend, whom you can walk away from, that's just> not possible with your thoughts. You can't> fall out with them, or can you......you can, but there's a catch you only end> up creating a bigger battle in your mind. But despite knowing this the realisation of what my head has done to me> has made me hate me (the thinking me), which is leading to further resistance,> even more than before and more emotional pain on top of my physical pain, which> I already find impossible to accept. > I am trying to push forward with mindfulness, doing courses> in it too. Forcing myself to sit with my horrible thinking self, that I hate,> to find that it's only creating more distress. Because my thinking mind sees meditation time as party time to really> mess with me, and its chucking everything, including the kitchen sink at me and> I am drowning in a big way. >  Today was a full day> mindfulness retreat, a day to truly develop your mindfulness practice. I spent 3 hours sobbing, breaking down. I did the" thank you mind", I did the" I am> noticing the thought" but it is said in a tone of anger and not kindness. Which means I am still resisting what my head> wanted me to look at. Today started with> mindful body movement (yoga), something I excelled in years ago, but now> triggers pain. So triggers the thoughts> and the emotions that go with the pain, "this is painful to do", "I don't want to concentrate on the> pain", "feel how much this really hurts you", "this will never go away", "I> want it gone", "I want my old life back", "leave me depressed anxious and stressed> but take the pain away", "its getting worst", "you're going to trigger a really> big pain episode". This then evolves into the big bombs, the thoughts I cannot seem to diffuse from....."what are you> go for now"....."your good for nothing"......"but I have to be good for> something". I find I cannot diffuse from> it at all, I want an answer to them, and before you say acceptance that's not> what I mean, I want to know what I am good for?.  And in regards to accepting my pain if I> could come to terms with accepting my chronic physical pain, then for me, I am> as good as saying "I am good for nothing".  I have totally bought into this, so much so it's positively antique, but I> want an answer "WHAT AM I GOOD FOR", it's not going away and I can't diffuse> from it, and can't seem to sit with it either, so what do I do?> The Body scan session was no better, nor was the loving> kindness, nor was the mindful walking, all I was consumed by today was physical> pain and I don't want to dwell on that, I can't do anything to change it, it's> for life and it's ruined my life. I spent> time today imagining the little river flowing past the lovely river bank, with> the beautiful tress and birds and squirrels, I could even smell the flowers,> but as soon as those leaves start coming it's not long before it turns into a> giant tidal wave with the word "PAIN" flashing before me, and I am consumed and> drowning again. I survived the day but> in my own way, I can't say it was very mindful. Disappointed in myself, but understanding of why it turned out as it> did.> I have 's Book "Get out of your mind and into your> Life", I have the Compassionate Mind Book and many others. For me I find ever word painful to read,> mentally and physically, every exercise feels like the ultimate challenge, I am> unfit to meet. You see even holding open> a book causes pain, so before I even get to picking it up and reading all the> words I feel resistant to reading,  I am> already thinking about pain, how much this will hurt, how long can I read for,> how much will writing out the exercises hurt...so before I even get anywhere with> my resistant thoughts about ACT and mindfulness, I am already stuck, with> getting my head around pain, I feel I have a life time pass on the pain train not> to mention the mind train, stuck on a journey going the wrong way forever.> I am trapped at present, before it seemed just to be about> the physical pain, now you can add my anger at my mind. I want to walk away from all parts of me, but> that's not possible (well there is one, commit the Ultimate Experience Avoidance). I> want my body back, fine mess with my head leave me depressed just end the> physical pain.  I am always angry and frustrated all the time.  The> more I am doing to get anywhere with that, the worst it just seems to be> getting. > How is it possible that you can become aware of your resistance> to then develop even more resistance? > I am completely and utterly lost with all of this. What am I> not getting, with ACT, Mindfulness, and Compassion to help me deal with all of> this.> Jo> PS, sorry this was so long, but if you took the time to read> it all, then I am grateful you did.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Once there was a bong,And I kept so many thoughts in it!Then it became just a bong, And so I had no further use for it.Sorry TC, I had to.... DOn Friday, June 15, 2012, Chan wrote: hI " I imagined a glass of pure alcohol, no ice. " I can't help smiling at this, as I imagine the pictures that came to your mind...--- someone is struggling -- I experienced that recently -- I forgive hurting myself -- I love alcohol -- It sometimes brings out good qualities like patience and joy in people -- -- I hate alcohol -- It induces regrettable behaviors -- My mind is like an elaborate cocktail -- Let's enjoy a good cup in balance -- I still have reservation to use alcohol excessively to fight demons... I had been keeping a bong for weed in my home for 10 years, shifting it around it's hiding place during occasional house cleaning. All this while, heroin and alcohol kept me busy. Finally, I threw the bong away yesterday. Realizing and awareness of how RFT works on my mind helped end my struggle with this bong. TC -- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Once there was a bong,And I kept so many thoughts in it!Then it became just a bong, And so I had no further use for it.Sorry TC, I had to.... DOn Friday, June 15, 2012, Chan wrote: hI " I imagined a glass of pure alcohol, no ice. " I can't help smiling at this, as I imagine the pictures that came to your mind...--- someone is struggling -- I experienced that recently -- I forgive hurting myself -- I love alcohol -- It sometimes brings out good qualities like patience and joy in people -- -- I hate alcohol -- It induces regrettable behaviors -- My mind is like an elaborate cocktail -- Let's enjoy a good cup in balance -- I still have reservation to use alcohol excessively to fight demons... I had been keeping a bong for weed in my home for 10 years, shifting it around it's hiding place during occasional house cleaning. All this while, heroin and alcohol kept me busy. Finally, I threw the bong away yesterday. Realizing and awareness of how RFT works on my mind helped end my struggle with this bong. TC -- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Hello again,I don't know if I am supposed to reply to individual messages or do one reply to all the threads. Since I increase pain when I use my hands, and that my hands have been sore for days now, I need to limit the time use them today, so I hope people do not mind if I do one reply to you all. Firstly I was very grateful you took the time to read my rather long post, secondly I was surprised to get replies...part of me was expecting to be told you're in the wrong place...but your messages were all sent in kindness and appreciated. I had to re-read a few, just to get to grips with what you were saying. you metaphor confused me at first, but I understand now what you were saying. My cocktail seems to be lacking in compassion, patience, tolerance, care, willingness, joy and love, towards myself for the moment, but hopefully through the loving kindness work I am doing I will be able to add this sweeter ingredient. I know there is work to be done there. Phil, when I read your message it made me realise that because I deal with physical pain so much daily, I don't seem to want to add to it or deal with all the emotional pain either. But I am also realising that it's the emotional pain (anger, hurt, frustration etc) that's become the unbearable pain...and for that very reason alone I am going to have to be brave and stop running away from it or fighting with it, but instead just like you said invite it in, no matter how difficult it's going to be or how scared I am of it. The idea that I can dip in and out and that I don't have to open the flood gates, makes me feel a little less frightened, so thank you. , you brought up the subject of values. I know it's an essential part of ACT and I am not quite there yet with values. My psychologist is trying very hard with me to look at values, but it's something I am struggling to even understand. My first response to reading your message was panic, physically my stomach flips and ties itself in knots, then I feel this tightness increase and move to my throat and I start to choke, the pressure builds and then moves to my shoulders, neck and head. This happens every time the word VALUES is mentioned. I can say you manage to make me feel threatened and provoked, and I wanted to instantly protect myself. I started worrying about how to answer you. You see the things I loved doing, now creates physical pain, so the Jo I once was is now different, it's not that I can't do them, it's just not the same and when I try to do them it makes me want the old Jo back and that's not going to happen. I don't know the real Jo at the moment. But I will let you know of any forward steps I do make with values. , your message was reassuring in many ways, and you gave me a lot to think about. Read your message many times and my own for that matter. All the things you wrote were very accurate considering you know so little about me and at no point did I feel lectured. Your message was a bit of a of a wake up to say the least, so I spent the past 36 hours looking at what I have been doing, looking at the notes I have written over the past year and half, the messages on here and I realised your right about everything you said, and I have been using meditation as my weapon of choice to attack my thinking mind; it's no wonder it's a war when I get in there. Thats not what mediation is about either I came across a music video (of all things) that shows perfectly what happens when I mediate. The Song was "To Close" by Clare. In the video there are two Kendo Warriors, stick fighting. I watched this over and over and realised that's what I am doing with my thinking mind every time I attempt to meditate. Every contact blow is when my thinking mind hits me with a thought it knows I am fused with (the big bombs). By the end of the video one warrior is beaten to surrender (me), left to lick its wounds, and the victor who earned their place of dominance reveals themselves, they are faceless (the thinking mind). Watching it over and over again I realised something, we fight because we feel threatened and scared. As a child in school you get frightened by bullies, you fear being beaten up, your told you will be beaten up if you don't do as your told, but when you face the bully and say hit with everything you have and don't fight back, it's not worth the fight, it's only a fight if you do the same. When you stop fighting and show you're not scared of the bully, the bully is disempowered. In waking up to my thinking mind and going to war with it I only gave it more power. My thinking mind is scared it knows it's not going to have the same power over me if I continue to pursue the ACT direction I am heading in. So understandably its feeling threatened and it's fighting to defend its place, after all for 42 years it's looked after me. The words in the song talked about being still friends, but just the direction is changing. Now I get it, you have to sit with your thinking mind you have to be friends with it not enemies and you have to be strong enough and tell it the path your now choosing to take, but be thankful for their insight and help, it doesn't mean you'll always take it, or buy into it. And this is where your message came at such a good time, it reassured me that what I am going through is a process and that it's okay to be feeling the way I am. Plus you gave me a little hope and reassurance, which I think I needed. You also made me realise values work will need to be looked at no matter how scared I am to take myself to the point of discussing it. So thank you. Darrell you hit me with another blow, just like the values I do runaway from pain, emotional and physical, when you asked me to describe pain as if no one had experienced it, I positively felt sick at the thought of it. I still feel acceptance means giving up, accepting failure, I have to unblock this believe first. I read a recent message by Kaivey, which she talked about an article The Antidote: Happiness For People Who Can't Stand Positive Thinking. It talks about an alternative approach: a "negative path" to happiness that entails taking a radically different stance towards those things most of us spend our lives trying hard to avoid. This involves learning to enjoy uncertainty, embracing insecurity and becoming familiar with failure. In order to be truly happy, it turns out, we might actually need to be willing to experience more negative emotions – or, at the very least, to stop running quite so hard from them. This fits in with what you were saying, pain is something I need to be willing to look at, get in touch with and get comfortable with, and hopefully then I can get to acceptance. I have got an awful lot of work yet to do, but everyone of you helped in your own way to reassure me I am heading in the good directing and that it will take time and effort, something I have in abundance. Thank you all for helping me to open my eyes, ears and senses, I feel I have a clearer focus of what I had been doing and what I really now need to be doing. With gratitude and Appreciation Jo > >> > > > Hello to the Group,> > > > > > New to the group (any group for that matter) and not really comfortable> > about putting this out there but I promised I would try. Going by what> > I have read this past week, I am pretty much a novice in ACT. So if I> > don't use the correct terminology apologies in advance, also for the> > length, being concise is not a quality I own.> > > > General history is best known I guess. Suffer Chronic Depression,> > Stress and Anxiety for just over 20 years, but I have also been> > suffering for the past 16 years Chronic Pain. Now I know they are seen> > as the same under ACT so when I say pain I actually mean my physical> > pain - nerve pain, muscular spasm, headaches, facial, ear and eye pain,> > arm and hand pain the list could go on but why bother going into the> > medical side, you get what I am saying.> > > > I begged to be referred to a pain clinic 2 years ago as I was at my wits> > end, 6 months later I was assigned to a Pain Clinic Psychologist who> > recommend the Act approach, after all, done the psycho-analysis,> > psychotherapy, psychiatrists and CBT and still was no further forward> > in the long term.> > > > I am a year and half into ACT, and you would think I would have been> > further forward but no, why....Resistance. It was only a few months ago> > I became aware of my level of resistance, which seems to be to pretty> > much everything, not just ACT but life/living.> > > > I have spent more time in this last year and a half thinking of dying> > than living. I promised not to give up. Selling the idea to myself I> > hadn't tried hard enough with ACT. Upon realising how my mind> > resists, and waking up to the fact that thoughts are not me, I feel my> > brain has gone to war, as I have with it. I trusted my thoughts to help> > and I am sure it did on many stressful and frightful occasions, but all> > the while it was helping me, at the same time it was emotionally and> > mentally abusing me. I did not see that until now. Now unlike an> > abusive partner or friend, whom you can walk away from, that's just> > not possible with your thoughts. You can't fall out with them, or> > can you......you can, but there's a catch you only end up creating a> > bigger battle in your mind. But despite knowing this the realisation of> > what my head has done to me has made me hate me (the thinking me), which> > is leading to further resistance, even more than before and more> > emotional pain on top of my physical pain, which I already find> > impossible to accept.> > > > I am trying to push forward with mindfulness, doing courses in it too.> > Forcing myself to sit with my horrible thinking self, that I hate, to> > find that it's only creating more distress. Because my thinking> > mind sees meditation time as party time to really mess with me, and its> > chucking everything, including the kitchen sink at me and I am drowning> > in a big way.> > > > Today was a full day mindfulness retreat, a day to truly develop your> > mindfulness practice. I spent 3 hours sobbing, breaking down. I did> > the" thank you mind", I did the" I am noticing the> > thought" but it is said in a tone of anger and not kindness. Which> > means I am still resisting what my head wanted me to look at. Today> > started with mindful body movement (yoga), something I excelled in years> > ago, but now triggers pain. So triggers the thoughts and the emotions> > that go with the pain, "this is painful to do", "I don't> > want to concentrate on the pain", "feel how much this really> > hurts you", "this will never go away", "I want it> > gone", "I want my old life back", "leave me depressed> > anxious and stressed but take the pain away", "its getting> > worst", "you're going to trigger a really big pain> > episode". This then evolves into the big bombs, the thoughts I> > cannot seem to diffuse from....."what are you go for> > now"....."your good for nothing"......"but I have to be> > good for something". I find I cannot diffuse from it at all, I want> > an answer to them, and before you say acceptance that's not what I> > mean, I want to know what I am good for?. And in regards to accepting> > my pain if I could come to terms with accepting my chronic physical> > pain, then for me, I am as good as saying "I am good for> > nothing". I have totally bought into this, so much so it's> > positively antique, but I want an answer "WHAT AM I GOOD FOR",> > it's not going away and I can't diffuse from it, and can't> > seem to sit with it either, so what do I do?> > > > The Body scan session was no better, nor was the loving kindness, nor> > was the mindful walking, all I was consumed by today was physical pain> > and I don't want to dwell on that, I can't do anything to change it,> > it's for life and it's ruined my life. I spent time today> > imagining the little river flowing past the lovely river bank, with the> > beautiful tress and birds and squirrels, I could even smell the flowers,> > but as soon as those leaves start coming it's not long before it> > turns into a giant tidal wave with the word "PAIN" flashing> > before me, and I am consumed and drowning again. I survived the day but> > in my own way, I can't say it was very mindful. Disappointed in> > myself, but understanding of why it turned out as it did.> > > > I have 's Book "Get out of your mind and into your> > Life", I have the Compassionate Mind Book and many others. For me I> > find ever word painful to read, mentally and physically, every exercise> > feels like the ultimate challenge, I am unfit to meet. You see even> > holding open a book causes pain, so before I even get to picking it up> > and reading all the words I feel resistant to reading, I am already> > thinking about pain, how much this will hurt, how long can I read for,> > how much will writing out the exercises hurt...so before I even get> > anywhere with my resistant thoughts about ACT and mindfulness, I am> > already stuck, with getting my head around pain, I feel I have a life> > time pass on the pain train not to mention the mind train, stuck on a> > journey going the wrong way forever.> > > > I am trapped at present, before it seemed just to be about the physical> > pain, now you can add my anger at my mind. I want to walk away from all> > parts of me, but that's not possible (well there is one, commit the> > Ultimate Experience Avoidance). I want my body back, fine mess with my> > head leave me depressed just end the physical pain. I am always angry> > and frustrated all the time. The more I am doing to get anywhere with> > that, the worst it just seems to be getting.> > > > How is it possible that you can become aware of your resistance to then> > develop even more resistance?> > > > I am completely and utterly lost with all of this. What am I not> > getting, with ACT, Mindfulness, and Compassion to help me deal with all> > of this.> > > > Jo> > > > PS, sorry this was so long, but if you took the time to read it all,> > then I am grateful you did.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Jo,Thank you for the thoughtful and perceptive responses. They are meaningful and give us much to think about in relation to our own lives.Phil Hello again,I don't know if I am supposed to reply to individual messages or do one reply to all the threads. Since I increase pain when I use my hands, and that my hands have been sore for days now, I need to limit the time use them today, so I hope people do not mind if I do one reply to you all. Firstly I was very grateful you took the time to read my rather long post, secondly I was surprised to get replies...part of me was expecting to be told you're in the wrong place...but your messages were all sent in kindness and appreciated. I had to re-read a few, just to get to grips with what you were saying. you metaphor confused me at first, but I understand now what you were saying. My cocktail seems to be lacking in compassion, patience, tolerance, care, willingness, joy and love, towards myself for the moment, but hopefully through the loving kindness work I am doing I will be able to add this sweeter ingredient. I know there is work to be done there. Phil, when I read your message it made me realise that because I deal with physical pain so much daily, I don't seem to want to add to it or deal with all the emotional pain either. But I am also realising that it's the emotional pain (anger, hurt, frustration etc) that's become the unbearable pain...and for that very reason alone I am going to have to be brave and stop running away from it or fighting with it, but instead just like you said invite it in, no matter how difficult it's going to be or how scared I am of it. The idea that I can dip in and out and that I don't have to open the flood gates, makes me feel a little less frightened, so thank you. , you brought up the subject of values. I know it's an essential part of ACT and I am not quite there yet with values. My psychologist is trying very hard with me to look at values, but it's something I am struggling to even understand. My first response to reading your message was panic, physically my stomach flips and ties itself in knots, then I feel this tightness increase and move to my throat and I start to choke, the pressure builds and then moves to my shoulders, neck and head. This happens every time the word VALUES is mentioned. I can say you manage to make me feel threatened and provoked, and I wanted to instantly protect myself. I started worrying about how to answer you. You see the things I loved doing, now creates physical pain, so the Jo I once was is now different, it's not that I can't do them, it's just not the same and when I try to do them it makes me want the old Jo back and that's not going to happen. I don't know the real Jo at the moment. But I will let you know of any forward steps I do make with values. , your message was reassuring in many ways, and you gave me a lot to think about. Read your message many times and my own for that matter. All the things you wrote were very accurate considering you know so little about me and at no point did I feel lectured. Your message was a bit of a of a wake up to say the least, so I spent the past 36 hours looking at what I have been doing, looking at the notes I have written over the past year and half, the messages on here and I realised your right about everything you said, and I have been using meditation as my weapon of choice to attack my thinking mind; it's no wonder it's a war when I get in there. Thats not what mediation is about either I came across a music video (of all things) that shows perfectly what happens when I mediate. The Song was "To Close" by Clare. In the video there are two Kendo Warriors, stick fighting. I watched this over and over and realised that's what I am doing with my thinking mind every time I attempt to meditate. Every contact blow is when my thinking mind hits me with a thought it knows I am fused with (the big bombs). By the end of the video one warrior is beaten to surrender (me), left to lick its wounds, and the victor who earned their place of dominance reveals themselves, they are faceless (the thinking mind). Watching it over and over again I realised something, we fight because we feel threatened and scared. As a child in school you get frightened by bullies, you fear being beaten up, your told you will be beaten up if you don't do as your told, but when you face the bully and say hit with everything you have and don't fight back, it's not worth the fight, it's only a fight if you do the same. When you stop fighting and show you're not scared of the bully, the bully is disempowered. In waking up to my thinking mind and going to war with it I only gave it more power. My thinking mind is scared it knows it's not going to have the same power over me if I continue to pursue the ACT direction I am heading in. So understandably its feeling threatened and it's fighting to defend its place, after all for 42 years it's looked after me. The words in the song talked about being still friends, but just the direction is changing. Now I get it, you have to sit with your thinking mind you have to be friends with it not enemies and you have to be strong enough and tell it the path your now choosing to take, but be thankful for their insight and help, it doesn't mean you'll always take it, or buy into it. And this is where your message came at such a good time, it reassured me that what I am going through is a process and that it's okay to be feeling the way I am. Plus you gave me a little hope and reassurance, which I think I needed. You also made me realise values work will need to be looked at no matter how scared I am to take myself to the point of discussing it. So thank you. Darrell you hit me with another blow, just like the values I do runaway from pain, emotional and physical, when you asked me to describe pain as if no one had experienced it, I positively felt sick at the thought of it. I still feel acceptance means giving up, accepting failure, I have to unblock this believe first. I read a recent message by Kaivey, which she talked about an article The Antidote: Happiness For People Who Can't Stand Positive Thinking. It talks about an alternative approach: a "negative path" to happiness that entails taking a radically different stance towards those things most of us spend our lives trying hard to avoid. This involves learning to enjoy uncertainty, embracing insecurity and becoming familiar with failure. In order to be truly happy, it turns out, we might actually need to be willing to experience more negative emotions – or, at the very least, to stop running quite so hard from them. This fits in with what you were saying, pain is something I need to be willing to look at, get in touch with and get comfortable with, and hopefully then I can get to acceptance. I have got an awful lot of work yet to do, but everyone of you helped in your own way to reassure me I am heading in the good directing and that it will take time and effort, something I have in abundance. Thank you all for helping me to open my eyes, ears and senses, I feel I have a clearer focus of what I had been doing and what I really now need to be doing.With gratitude and AppreciationJo > >> > > > Hello to the Group,> > > > > > New to the group (any group for that matter) and not really comfortable> > about putting this out there but I promised I would try. Going by what> > I have read this past week, I am pretty much a novice in ACT. So if I> > don't use the correct terminology apologies in advance, also for the> > length, being concise is not a quality I own.> > > > General history is best known I guess. Suffer Chronic Depression,> > Stress and Anxiety for just over 20 years, but I have also been> > suffering for the past 16 years Chronic Pain. Now I know they are seen> > as the same under ACT so when I say pain I actually mean my physical> > pain - nerve pain, muscular spasm, headaches, facial, ear and eye pain,> > arm and hand pain the list could go on but why bother going into the> > medical side, you get what I am saying.> > > > I begged to be referred to a pain clinic 2 years ago as I was at my wits> > end, 6 months later I was assigned to a Pain Clinic Psychologist who> > recommend the Act approach, after all, done the psycho-analysis,> > psychotherapy, psychiatrists and CBT and still was no further forward> > in the long term.> > > > I am a year and half into ACT, and you would think I would have been> > further forward but no, why....Resistance. It was only a few months ago> > I became aware of my level of resistance, which seems to be to pretty> > much everything, not just ACT but life/living.> > > > I have spent more time in this last year and a half thinking of dying> > than living. I promised not to give up. Selling the idea to myself I> > hadn't tried hard enough with ACT. Upon realising how my mind> > resists, and waking up to the fact that thoughts are not me, I feel my> > brain has gone to war, as I have with it. I trusted my thoughts to help> > and I am sure it did on many stressful and frightful occasions, but all> > the while it was helping me, at the same time it was emotionally and> > mentally abusing me. I did not see that until now. Now unlike an> > abusive partner or friend, whom you can walk away from, that's just> > not possible with your thoughts. You can't fall out with them, or> > can you......you can, but there's a catch you only end up creating a> > bigger battle in your mind. But despite knowing this the realisation of> > what my head has done to me has made me hate me (the thinking me), which> > is leading to further resistance, even more than before and more> > emotional pain on top of my physical pain, which I already find> > impossible to accept.> > > > I am trying to push forward with mindfulness, doing courses in it too.> > Forcing myself to sit with my horrible thinking self, that I hate, to> > find that it's only creating more distress. Because my thinking> > mind sees meditation time as party time to really mess with me, and its> > chucking everything, including the kitchen sink at me and I am drowning> > in a big way.> > > > Today was a full day mindfulness retreat, a day to truly develop your> > mindfulness practice. I spent 3 hours sobbing, breaking down. I did> > the" thank you mind", I did the" I am noticing the> > thought" but it is said in a tone of anger and not kindness. Which> > means I am still resisting what my head wanted me to look at. Today> > started with mindful body movement (yoga), something I excelled in years> > ago, but now triggers pain. So triggers the thoughts and the emotions> > that go with the pain, "this is painful to do", "I don't> > want to concentrate on the pain", "feel how much this really> > hurts you", "this will never go away", "I want it> > gone", "I want my old life back", "leave me depressed> > anxious and stressed but take the pain away", "its getting> > worst", "you're going to trigger a really big pain> > episode". This then evolves into the big bombs, the thoughts I> > cannot seem to diffuse from....."what are you go for> > now"....."your good for nothing"......"but I have to be> > good for something". I find I cannot diffuse from it at all, I want> > an answer to them, and before you say acceptance that's not what I> > mean, I want to know what I am good for?. And in regards to accepting> > my pain if I could come to terms with accepting my chronic physical> > pain, then for me, I am as good as saying "I am good for> > nothing". I have totally bought into this, so much so it's> > positively antique, but I want an answer "WHAT AM I GOOD FOR",> > it's not going away and I can't diffuse from it, and can't> > seem to sit with it either, so what do I do?> > > > The Body scan session was no better, nor was the loving kindness, nor> > was the mindful walking, all I was consumed by today was physical pain> > and I don't want to dwell on that, I can't do anything to change it,> > it's for life and it's ruined my life. I spent time today> > imagining the little river flowing past the lovely river bank, with the> > beautiful tress and birds and squirrels, I could even smell the flowers,> > but as soon as those leaves start coming it's not long before it> > turns into a giant tidal wave with the word "PAIN" flashing> > before me, and I am consumed and drowning again. I survived the day but> > in my own way, I can't say it was very mindful. Disappointed in> > myself, but understanding of why it turned out as it did.> > > > I have 's Book "Get out of your mind and into your> > Life", I have the Compassionate Mind Book and many others. For me I> > find ever word painful to read, mentally and physically, every exercise> > feels like the ultimate challenge, I am unfit to meet. You see even> > holding open a book causes pain, so before I even get to picking it up> > and reading all the words I feel resistant to reading, I am already> > thinking about pain, how much this will hurt, how long can I read for,> > how much will writing out the exercises hurt...so before I even get> > anywhere with my resistant thoughts about ACT and mindfulness, I am> > already stuck, with getting my head around pain, I feel I have a life> > time pass on the pain train not to mention the mind train, stuck on a> > journey going the wrong way forever.> > > > I am trapped at present, before it seemed just to be about the physical> > pain, now you can add my anger at my mind. I want to walk away from all> > parts of me, but that's not possible (well there is one, commit the> > Ultimate Experience Avoidance). I want my body back, fine mess with my> > head leave me depressed just end the physical pain. I am always angry> > and frustrated all the time. The more I am doing to get anywhere with> > that, the worst it just seems to be getting.> > > > How is it possible that you can become aware of your resistance to then> > develop even more resistance?> > > > I am completely and utterly lost with all of this. What am I not> > getting, with ACT, Mindfulness, and Compassion to help me deal with all> > of this.> > > > Jo> > > > PS, sorry this was so long, but if you took the time to read it all,> > then I am grateful you did.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Hiya Jo, I'm terribly sorry that my post felt threatening to you. Oops! There isn't "one way" to do ACT, and I have every faith that you will get to where you need to be in your own time, and in your own way. Good luck! x To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Saturday, 16 June 2012, 17:26 Subject: Re: Resistance! Hello again,I don't know if I am supposed to reply to individual messages or do one reply to all the threads. Since I increase pain when I use my hands, and that my hands have been sore for days now, I need to limit the time use them today, so I hope people do not mind if I do one reply to you all. Firstly I was very grateful you took the time to read my rather long post, secondly I was surprised to get replies...part of me was expecting to be told you're in the wrong place...but your messages were all sent in kindness and appreciated. I had to re-read a few, just to get to grips with what you were saying. you metaphor confused me at first, but I understand now what you were saying. My cocktail seems to be lacking in compassion, patience, tolerance, care, willingness, joy and love, towards myself for the moment, but hopefully through the loving kindness work I am doing I will be able to add this sweeter ingredient. I know there is work to be done there. Phil, when I read your message it made me realise that because I deal with physical pain so much daily, I don't seem to want to add to it or deal with all the emotional pain either. But I am also realising that it's the emotional pain (anger, hurt, frustration etc) that's become the unbearable pain...and for that very reason alone I am going to have to be brave and stop running away from it or fighting with it, but instead just like you said invite it in, no matter how difficult it's going to be or how scared I am of it. The idea that I can dip in and out and that I don't have to open the flood gates, makes me feel a little less frightened, so thank you. , you brought up the subject of values. I know it's an essential part of ACT and I am not quite there yet with values. My psychologist is trying very hard with me to look at values, but it's something I am struggling to even understand. My first response to reading your message was panic, physically my stomach flips and ties itself in knots, then I feel this tightness increase and move to my throat and I start to choke, the pressure builds and then moves to my shoulders, neck and head. This happens every time the word VALUES is mentioned. I can say you manage to make me feel threatened and provoked, and I wanted to instantly protect myself. I started worrying about how to answer you. You see the things I loved doing, now creates physical pain, so the Jo I once was is now different, it's not that I can't do them, it's just not the same and when I try to do them it makes me want the old Jo back and that's not going to happen. I don't know the real Jo at the moment. But I will let you know of any forward steps I do make with values. , your message was reassuring in many ways, and you gave me a lot to think about. Read your message many times and my own for that matter. All the things you wrote were very accurate considering you know so little about me and at no point did I feel lectured. Your message was a bit of a of a wake up to say the least, so I spent the past 36 hours looking at what I have been doing, looking at the notes I have written over the past year and half, the messages on here and I realised your right about everything you said, and I have been using meditation as my weapon of choice to attack my thinking mind; it's no wonder it's a war when I get in there. Thats not what mediation is about either I came across a music video (of all things) that shows perfectly what happens when I mediate. The Song was "To Close" by Clare. In the video there are two Kendo Warriors, stick fighting. I watched this over and over and realised that's what I am doing with my thinking mind every time I attempt to meditate. Every contact blow is when my thinking mind hits me with a thought it knows I am fused with (the big bombs). By the end of the video one warrior is beaten to surrender (me), left to lick its wounds, and the victor who earned their place of dominance reveals themselves, they are faceless (the thinking mind). Watching it over and over again I realised something, we fight because we feel threatened and scared. As a child in school you get frightened by bullies, you fear being beaten up, your told you will be beaten up if you don't do as your told, but when you face the bully and say hit with everything you have and don't fight back, it's not worth the fight, it's only a fight if you do the same. When you stop fighting and show you're not scared of the bully, the bully is disempowered. In waking up to my thinking mind and going to war with it I only gave it more power. My thinking mind is scared it knows it's not going to have the same power over me if I continue to pursue the ACT direction I am heading in. So understandably its feeling threatened and it's fighting to defend its place, after all for 42 years it's looked after me. The words in the song talked about being still friends, but just the direction is changing. Now I get it, you have to sit with your thinking mind you have to be friends with it not enemies and you have to be strong enough and tell it the path your now choosing to take, but be thankful for their insight and help, it doesn't mean you'll always take it, or buy into it. And this is where your message came at such a good time, it reassured me that what I am going through is a process and that it's okay to be feeling the way I am. Plus you gave me a little hope and reassurance, which I think I needed. You also made me realise values work will need to be looked at no matter how scared I am to take myself to the point of discussing it. So thank you. Darrell you hit me with another blow, just like the values I do runaway from pain, emotional and physical, when you asked me to describe pain as if no one had experienced it, I positively felt sick at the thought of it. I still feel acceptance means giving up, accepting failure, I have to unblock this believe first. I read a recent message by Kaivey, which she talked about an article The Antidote: Happiness For People Who Can't Stand Positive Thinking. It talks about an alternative approach: a "negative path" to happiness that entails taking a radically different stance towards those things most of us spend our lives trying hard to avoid. This involves learning to enjoy uncertainty, embracing insecurity and becoming familiar with failure. In order to be truly happy, it turns out, we might actually need to be willing to experience more negative emotions – or, at the very least, to stop running quite so hard from them. This fits in with what you were saying, pain is something I need to be willing to look at, get in touch with and get comfortable with, and hopefully then I can get to acceptance. I have got an awful lot of work yet to do, but everyone of you helped in your own way to reassure me I am heading in the good directing and that it will take time and effort, something I have in abundance. Thank you all for helping me to open my eyes, ears and senses, I feel I have a clearer focus of what I had been doing and what I really now need to be doing. With gratitude and Appreciation Jo > >> > > > Hello to the Group,> > > > > > New to the group (any group for that matter) and not really comfortable> > about putting this out there but I promised I would try. Going by what> > I have read this past week, I am pretty much a novice in ACT. So if I> > don't use the correct terminology apologies in advance, also for the> > length, being concise is not a quality I own.> > > > General history is best known I guess. Suffer Chronic Depression,> > Stress and Anxiety for just over 20 years, but I have also been> > suffering for the past 16 years Chronic Pain. Now I know they are seen> > as the same under ACT so when I say pain I actually mean my physical> > pain - nerve pain, muscular spasm, headaches, facial, ear and eye pain,> > arm and hand pain the list could go on but why bother going into the> > medical side, you get what I am saying.> > > > I begged to be referred to a pain clinic 2 years ago as I was at my wits> > end, 6 months later I was assigned to a Pain Clinic Psychologist who> > recommend the Act approach, after all, done the psycho-analysis,> > psychotherapy, psychiatrists and CBT and still was no further forward> > in the long term.> > > > I am a year and half into ACT, and you would think I would have been> > further forward but no, why....Resistance. It was only a few months ago> > I became aware of my level of resistance, which seems to be to pretty> > much everything, not just ACT but life/living.> > > > I have spent more time in this last year and a half thinking of dying> > than living. I promised not to give up. Selling the idea to myself I> > hadn't tried hard enough with ACT. Upon realising how my mind> > resists, and waking up to the fact that thoughts are not me, I feel my> > brain has gone to war, as I have with it. I trusted my thoughts to help> > and I am sure it did on many stressful and frightful occasions, but all> > the while it was helping me, at the same time it was emotionally and> > mentally abusing me. I did not see that until now. Now unlike an> > abusive partner or friend, whom you can walk away from, that's just> > not possible with your thoughts. You can't fall out with them, or> > can you......you can, but there's a catch you only end up creating a> > bigger battle in your mind. But despite knowing this the realisation of> > what my head has done to me has made me hate me (the thinking me), which> > is leading to further resistance, even more than before and more> > emotional pain on top of my physical pain, which I already find> > impossible to accept.> > > > I am trying to push forward with mindfulness, doing courses in it too.> > Forcing myself to sit with my horrible thinking self, that I hate, to> > find that it's only creating more distress. Because my thinking> > mind sees meditation time as party time to really mess with me, and its> > chucking everything, including the kitchen sink at me and I am drowning> > in a big way.> > > > Today was a full day mindfulness retreat, a day to truly develop your> > mindfulness practice. I spent 3 hours sobbing, breaking down. I did> > the" thank you mind", I did the" I am noticing the> > thought" but it is said in a tone of anger and not kindness. Which> > means I am still resisting what my head wanted me to look at. Today> > started with mindful body movement (yoga), something I excelled in years> > ago, but now triggers pain. So triggers the thoughts and the emotions> > that go with the pain, "this is painful to do", "I don't> > want to concentrate on the pain", "feel how much this really> > hurts you", "this will never go away", "I want it> > gone", "I want my old life back", "leave me depressed> > anxious and stressed but take the pain away", "its getting> > worst", "you're going to trigger a really big pain> > episode". This then evolves into the big bombs, the thoughts I> > cannot seem to diffuse from....."what are you go for> > now"....."your good for nothing"......"but I have to be> > good for something". I find I cannot diffuse from it at all, I want> > an answer to them, and before you say acceptance that's not what I> > mean, I want to know what I am good for?. And in regards to accepting> > my pain if I could come to terms with accepting my chronic physical> > pain, then for me, I am as good as saying "I am good for> > nothing". I have totally bought into this, so much so it's> > positively antique, but I want an answer "WHAT AM I GOOD FOR",> > it's not going away and I can't diffuse from it, and can't> > seem to sit with it either, so what do I do?> > > > The Body scan session was no better, nor was the loving kindness, nor> > was the mindful walking, all I was consumed by today was physical pain> > and I don't want to dwell on that, I can't do anything to change it,> > it's for life and it's ruined my life. I spent time today> > imagining the little river flowing past the lovely river bank, with the> > beautiful tress and birds and squirrels, I could even smell the flowers,> > but as soon as those leaves start coming it's not long before it> > turns into a giant tidal wave with the word "PAIN" flashing> > before me, and I am consumed and drowning again. I survived the day but> > in my own way, I can't say it was very mindful. Disappointed in> > myself, but understanding of why it turned out as it did.> > > > I have 's Book "Get out of your mind and into your> > Life", I have the Compassionate Mind Book and many others. For me I> > find ever word painful to read, mentally and physically, every exercise> > feels like the ultimate challenge, I am unfit to meet. You see even> > holding open a book causes pain, so before I even get to picking it up> > and reading all the words I feel resistant to reading, I am already> > thinking about pain, how much this will hurt, how long can I read for,> > how much will writing out the exercises hurt...so before I even get> > anywhere with my resistant thoughts about ACT and mindfulness, I am> > already stuck, with getting my head around pain, I feel I have a life> > time pass on the pain train not to mention the mind train, stuck on a> > journey going the wrong way forever.> > > > I am trapped at present, before it seemed just to be about the physical> > pain, now you can add my anger at my mind. I want to walk away from all> > parts of me, but that's not possible (well there is one, commit the> > Ultimate Experience Avoidance). I want my body back, fine mess with my> > head leave me depressed just end the physical pain. I am always angry> > and frustrated all the time. The more I am doing to get anywhere with> > that, the worst it just seems to be getting.> > > > How is it possible that you can become aware of your resistance to then> > develop even more resistance?> > > > I am completely and utterly lost with all of this. What am I not> > getting, with ACT, Mindfulness, and Compassion to help me deal with all> > of this.> > > > Jo> > > > PS, sorry this was so long, but if you took the time to read it all,> > then I am grateful you did.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 , do not apologies, what you asked was exactly what needed to be asked. I expressed to you what my thinking mind did when I read your message. You raised my awareness to how much resistance and fear I have allowed my thinking mind to create, in relation to Values. This time I chose to look at the physical and emotional responses differently and probably for the first time too. There is work to be done in Values and I will at some point come back to you with an answer to your question in time. I have a lot of work to do yet, but I am grateful for your question and grateful for my mind and body's response, it told me a lot about what needs to be done. So thank you, you did a very good thing and it was a very good question. Jo > > > > > > > > > Hello to the Group, > > > > > > > > > New to the group (any group for that matter) and not really comfortable > > > about putting this out there but I promised I would try. Going by what > > > I have read this past week, I am pretty much a novice in ACT. So if I > > > don't use the correct terminology apologies in advance, also for the > > > length, being concise is not a quality I own. > > > > > > General history is best known I guess. Suffer Chronic Depression, > > > Stress and Anxiety for just over 20 years, but I have also been > > > suffering for the past 16 years Chronic Pain. Now I know they are seen > > > as the same under ACT so when I say pain I actually mean my physical > > > pain - nerve pain, muscular spasm, headaches, facial, ear and eye pain, > > > arm and hand pain the list could go on but why bother going into the > > > medical side, you get what I am saying. > > > > > > I begged to be referred to a pain clinic 2 years ago as I was at my wits > > > end, 6 months later I was assigned to a Pain Clinic Psychologist who > > > recommend the Act approach, after all, done the psycho-analysis, > > > psychotherapy, psychiatrists and CBT and still was no further forward > > > in the long term. > > > > > > I am a year and half into ACT, and you would think I would have been > > > further forward but no, why....Resistance. It was only a few months ago > > > I became aware of my level of resistance, which seems to be to pretty > > > much everything, not just ACT but life/living. > > > > > > I have spent more time in this last year and a half thinking of dying > > > than living. I promised not to give up. Selling the idea to myself I > > > hadn't tried hard enough with ACT. Upon realising how my mind > > > resists, and waking up to the fact that thoughts are not me, I feel my > > > brain has gone to war, as I have with it. I trusted my thoughts to help > > > and I am sure it did on many stressful and frightful occasions, but all > > > the while it was helping me, at the same time it was emotionally and > > > mentally abusing me. I did not see that until now. Now unlike an > > > abusive partner or friend, whom you can walk away from, that's just > > > not possible with your thoughts. You can't fall out with them, or > > > can you......you can, but there's a catch you only end up creating a > > > bigger battle in your mind. But despite knowing this the realisation of > > > what my head has done to me has made me hate me (the thinking me), which > > > is leading to further resistance, even more than before and more > > > emotional pain on top of my physical pain, which I already find > > > impossible to accept. > > > > > > I am trying to push forward with mindfulness, doing courses in it too. > > > Forcing myself to sit with my horrible thinking self, that I hate, to > > > find that it's only creating more distress. Because my thinking > > > mind sees meditation time as party time to really mess with me, and its > > > chucking everything, including the kitchen sink at me and I am drowning > > > in a big way. > > > > > > Today was a full day mindfulness retreat, a day to truly develop your > > > mindfulness practice. I spent 3 hours sobbing, breaking down. I did > > > the " thank you mind " , I did the " I am noticing the > > > thought " but it is said in a tone of anger and not kindness. Which > > > means I am still resisting what my head wanted me to look at. Today > > > started with mindful body movement (yoga), something I excelled in years > > > ago, but now triggers pain. So triggers the thoughts and the emotions > > > that go with the pain, " this is painful to do " , " I don't > > > want to concentrate on the pain " , " feel how much this really > > > hurts you " , " this will never go away " , " I want it > > > gone " , " I want my old life back " , " leave me depressed > > > anxious and stressed but take the pain away " , " its getting > > > worst " , " you're going to trigger a really big pain > > > episode " . This then evolves into the big bombs, the thoughts I > > > cannot seem to diffuse from..... " what are you go for > > > now " ..... " your good for nothing " ...... " but I have to be > > > good for something " . I find I cannot diffuse from it at all, I want > > > an answer to them, and before you say acceptance that's not what I > > > mean, I want to know what I am good for?. And in regards to accepting > > > my pain if I could come to terms with accepting my chronic physical > > > pain, then for me, I am as good as saying " I am good for > > > nothing " . I have totally bought into this, so much so it's > > > positively antique, but I want an answer " WHAT AM I GOOD FOR " , > > > it's not going away and I can't diffuse from it, and can't > > > seem to sit with it either, so what do I do? > > > > > > The Body scan session was no better, nor was the loving kindness, nor > > > was the mindful walking, all I was consumed by today was physical pain > > > and I don't want to dwell on that, I can't do anything to change it, > > > it's for life and it's ruined my life. I spent time today > > > imagining the little river flowing past the lovely river bank, with the > > > beautiful tress and birds and squirrels, I could even smell the flowers, > > > but as soon as those leaves start coming it's not long before it > > > turns into a giant tidal wave with the word " PAIN " flashing > > > before me, and I am consumed and drowning again. I survived the day but > > > in my own way, I can't say it was very mindful. Disappointed in > > > myself, but understanding of why it turned out as it did. > > > > > > I have 's Book " Get out of your mind and into your > > > Life " , I have the Compassionate Mind Book and many others. For me I > > > find ever word painful to read, mentally and physically, every exercise > > > feels like the ultimate challenge, I am unfit to meet. You see even > > > holding open a book causes pain, so before I even get to picking it up > > > and reading all the words I feel resistant to reading, I am already > > > thinking about pain, how much this will hurt, how long can I read for, > > > how much will writing out the exercises hurt...so before I even get > > > anywhere with my resistant thoughts about ACT and mindfulness, I am > > > already stuck, with getting my head around pain, I feel I have a life > > > time pass on the pain train not to mention the mind train, stuck on a > > > journey going the wrong way forever. > > > > > > I am trapped at present, before it seemed just to be about the physical > > > pain, now you can add my anger at my mind. I want to walk away from all > > > parts of me, but that's not possible (well there is one, commit the > > > Ultimate Experience Avoidance). I want my body back, fine mess with my > > > head leave me depressed just end the physical pain. I am always angry > > > and frustrated all the time. The more I am doing to get anywhere with > > > that, the worst it just seems to be getting. > > > > > > How is it possible that you can become aware of your resistance to then > > > develop even more resistance? > > > > > > I am completely and utterly lost with all of this. What am I not > > > getting, with ACT, Mindfulness, and Compassion to help me deal with all > > > of this. > > > > > > Jo > > > > > > PS, sorry this was so long, but if you took the time to read it all, > > > then I am grateful you did. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Remember 's reply to the post: "Question for re: problem solving vs. appreciation in AC"?I think that is poetic, so is this.Someday, someone may keep a compilation large enough to publish.Not sure if it's your intention, these four lines are simple but weigh a lot. I think they are beautiful and profound.> > > **> >> >> > hI > >> > "I imagined a glass of pure alcohol, no ice."> > I can't help smiling at this, as I imagine the pictures that came to your> > mind...--- someone is struggling> >> > -- I experienced that recently -- I forgive hurting myself -- I love> > alcohol -- It sometimes brings out good qualities like patience and joy> > in people --> >> > -- I hate alcohol -- It induces regrettable behaviors -- My mind> > is like an elaborate cocktail -- Let's enjoy a good cup in balance> >> > -- I still have reservation to use alcohol excessively to fight demons...> >> >> > I had been keeping a bong for weed in my home for 10 years, shifting it> > around it's hiding place during occasional house cleaning. All this while,> > heroin and alcohol kept me busy.> >> > Finally, I threw the bong away yesterday. Realizing and awareness of how> > RFT works on my mind helped end my struggle with this bong.> >> > *TC*> >> > > -- > Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-T> Rochester, NY, US> http://darrellking.com> DarrellGKing@...> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Thank you, sir. Hope it helps. Give me credit when you use it and feel free to do so wherever it helps.Didn't make a title. Requiem for a Bong? Thought Smoke? The Day My Memories Went Up In Smoke? :)D Remember 's reply to the post: " Question for re: problem solving vs. appreciation in AC " ? I think that is poetic, so is this.Someday, someone may keep a compilation large enough to publish. Not sure if it's your intention, these four lines are simple but weigh a lot. I think they are beautiful and profound. > > > **> >> >> > hI > >> > " I imagined a glass of pure alcohol, no ice. " > > I can't help smiling at this, as I imagine the pictures that came to your> > mind...--- someone is struggling> >> > -- I experienced that recently -- I forgive hurting myself -- I love > > alcohol -- It sometimes brings out good qualities like patience and joy> > in people --> >> > -- I hate alcohol -- It induces regrettable behaviors -- My mind> > is like an elaborate cocktail -- Let's enjoy a good cup in balance > >> > -- I still have reservation to use alcohol excessively to fight demons...> >> >> > I had been keeping a bong for weed in my home for 10 years, shifting it> > around it's hiding place during occasional house cleaning. All this while, > > heroin and alcohol kept me busy.> >> > Finally, I threw the bong away yesterday. Realizing and awareness of how> > RFT works on my mind helped end my struggle with this bong.> > > > *TC*> >> > > -- > Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-T> Rochester, NY, US> http://darrellking.com> DarrellGKing@... > -- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Hi Jo,A warm welcome! First of all, replying to "all" is the gold standard for this group since it was designed for interaction among the group members so we can all participate in the discussions and learn from each other. I also learn from the personal messages, including the "squabbles", so I somewhat disagree that they should be kept private, unless they become prolific or ugly - but that's my personal take on it (others are uncomfortable and annoyed by such, which is just a valid a take on it). I was moved to tears by your first post and to admiration by this one. I have a sister (with the same name "Jo) who has chronic severe pain and so I know what it is like to witness, if not experience personally. It is a challenge to anyone to live a meaningful, value-driven life without such physical pain, let alone emotional, but to experience both kinds of pain at the same time is almost impossible for me to imagine. My heart goes out to you.I am wondering why the idea of values is scary to you? Values are not there to beat ourselves up with, or to set up a standard against which we must measure up. Values are more like the guiding principles of our lives that define what matters most to us in this world. There is actually nothing scary about them, although the process of clarifying, expressing and tweaking them can be daunting. I had a hard time with the concept at first, too, thinking that once I identify these things called values, I will have to measure up to them and if I don't, chalk up another one on my long list of failures. And being depressed, I didn't welcome the idea of having something like values demand my energy when I could barely get out of bed. I have since learned that values can be comforting and healing. They won't keep you warm at night when you long for the arms of another to hold you, but they will keep your heart in the right place - with what really matters to you. So as you step down the ACT path, you, too, will come to find values to be your friends - friends who are there to pick you up when you fall and get you back on track. Friends who are loving and compassionate - not punitive and punishing.I have learned a lot from your posts and the responses from the amazing people on this list. Thank you for joining us and for sharing your story with us. Remember, too, that your "story" is not always the truth about you but may be (often is) what your mind is telling you; I'm sure you've caught on to that by now! HelenaTo: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 12:26:24 PMSubject: Re: Resistance! Hello again,I don't know if I am supposed to reply to individual messages or do one reply to all the threads. Since I increase pain when I use my hands, and that my hands have been sore for days now, I need to limit the time use them today, so I hope people do not mind if I do one reply to you all. Firstly I was very grateful you took the time to read my rather long post, secondly I was surprised to get replies...part of me was expecting to be told you're in the wrong place...but your messages were all sent in kindness and appreciated. I had to re-read a few, just to get to grips with what you were saying. you metaphor confused me at first, but I understand now what you were saying. My cocktail seems to be lacking in compassion, patience, tolerance, care, willingness, joy and love, towards myself for the moment, but hopefully through the loving kindness work I am doing I will be able to add this sweeter ingredient. I know there is work to be done there. Phil, when I read your message it made me realise that because I deal with physical pain so much daily, I don't seem to want to add to it or deal with all the emotional pain either. But I am also realising that it's the emotional pain (anger, hurt, frustration etc) that's become the unbearable pain...and for that very reason alone I am going to have to be brave and stop running away from it or fighting with it, but instead just like you said invite it in, no matter how difficult it's going to be or how scared I am of it. The idea that I can dip in and out and that I don't have to open the flood gates, makes me feel a little less frightened, so thank you. , you brought up the subject of values. I know it's an essential part of ACT and I am not quite there yet with values. My psychologist is trying very hard with me to look at values, but it's something I am struggling to even understand. My first response to reading your message was panic, physically my stomach flips and ties itself in knots, then I feel this tightness increase and move to my throat and I start to choke, the pressure builds and then moves to my shoulders, neck and head. This happens every time the word VALUES is mentioned. I can say you manage to make me feel threatened and provoked, and I wanted to instantly protect myself. I started worrying about how to answer you. You see the things I loved doing, now creates physical pain, so the Jo I once was is now different, it's not that I can't do them, it's just not the same and when I try to do them it makes me want the old Jo back and that's not going to happen. I don't know the real Jo at the moment. But I will let you know of any forward steps I do make with values. , your message was reassuring in many ways, and you gave me a lot to think about. Read your message many times and my own for that matter. All the things you wrote were very accurate considering you know so little about me and at no point did I feel lectured. Your message was a bit of a of a wake up to say the least, so I spent the past 36 hours looking at what I have been doing, looking at the notes I have written over the past year and half, the messages on here and I realised your right about everything you said, and I have been using meditation as my weapon of choice to attack my thinking mind; it's no wonder it's a war when I get in there. Thats not what mediation is about either I came across a music video (of all things) that shows perfectly what happens when I mediate. The Song was "To Close" by Clare. In the video there are two Kendo Warriors, stick fighting. I watched this over and over and realised that's what I am doing with my thinking mind every time I attempt to meditate. Every contact blow is when my thinking mind hits me with a thought it knows I am fused with (the big bombs). By the end of the video one warrior is beaten to surrender (me), left to lick its wounds, and the victor who earned their place of dominance reveals themselves, they are faceless (the thinking mind). Watching it over and over again I realised something, we fight because we feel threatened and scared. As a child in school you get frightened by bullies, you fear being beaten up, your told you will be beaten up if you don't do as your told, but when you face the bully and say hit with everything you have and don't fight back, it's not worth the fight, it's only a fight if you do the same. When you stop fighting and show you're not scared of the bully, the bully is disempowered. In waking up to my thinking mind and going to war with it I only gave it more power. My thinking mind is scared it knows it's not going to have the same power over me if I continue to pursue the ACT direction I am heading in. So understandably its feeling threatened and it's fighting to defend its place, after all for 42 years it's looked after me. The words in the song talked about being still friends, but just the direction is changing. Now I get it, you have to sit with your thinking mind you have to be friends with it not enemies and you have to be strong enough and tell it the path your now choosing to take, but be thankful for their insight and help, it doesn't mean you'll always take it, or buy into it. And this is where your message came at such a good time, it reassured me that what I am going through is a process and that it's okay to be feeling the way I am. Plus you gave me a little hope and reassurance, which I think I needed. You also made me realise values work will need to be looked at no matter how scared I am to take myself to the point of discussing it. So thank you. Darrell you hit me with another blow, just like the values I do runaway from pain, emotional and physical, when you asked me to describe pain as if no one had experienced it, I positively felt sick at the thought of it. I still feel acceptance means giving up, accepting failure, I have to unblock this believe first. I read a recent message by Kaivey, which she talked about an article The Antidote: Happiness For People Who Can't Stand Positive Thinking. It talks about an alternative approach: a "negative path" to happiness that entails taking a radically different stance towards those things most of us spend our lives trying hard to avoid. This involves learning to enjoy uncertainty, embracing insecurity and becoming familiar with failure. In order to be truly happy, it turns out, we might actually need to be willing to experience more negative emotions – or, at the very least, to stop running quite so hard from them. This fits in with what you were saying, pain is something I need to be willing to look at, get in touch with and get comfortable with, and hopefully then I can get to acceptance. I have got an awful lot of work yet to do, but everyone of you helped in your own way to reassure me I am heading in the good directing and that it will take time and effort, something I have in abundance. Thank you all for helping me to open my eyes, ears and senses, I feel I have a clearer focus of what I had been doing and what I really now need to be doing. With gratitude and Appreciation Jo > >> > > > Hello to the Group,> > > > > > New to the group (any group for that matter) and not really comfortable> > about putting this out there but I promised I would try. Going by what> > I have read this past week, I am pretty much a novice in ACT. So if I> > don't use the correct terminology apologies in advance, also for the> > length, being concise is not a quality I own.> > > > General history is best known I guess. Suffer Chronic Depression,> > Stress and Anxiety for just over 20 years, but I have also been> > suffering for the past 16 years Chronic Pain. Now I know they are seen> > as the same under ACT so when I say pain I actually mean my physical> > pain - nerve pain, muscular spasm, headaches, facial, ear and eye pain,> > arm and hand pain the list could go on but why bother going into the> > medical side, you get what I am saying.> > > > I begged to be referred to a pain clinic 2 years ago as I was at my wits> > end, 6 months later I was assigned to a Pain Clinic Psychologist who> > recommend the Act approach, after all, done the psycho-analysis,> > psychotherapy, psychiatrists and CBT and still was no further forward> > in the long term.> > > > I am a year and half into ACT, and you would think I would have been> > further forward but no, why....Resistance. It was only a few months ago> > I became aware of my level of resistance, which seems to be to pretty> > much everything, not just ACT but life/living.> > > > I have spent more time in this last year and a half thinking of dying> > than living. I promised not to give up. Selling the idea to myself I> > hadn't tried hard enough with ACT. Upon realising how my mind> > resists, and waking up to the fact that thoughts are not me, I feel my> > brain has gone to war, as I have with it. I trusted my thoughts to help> > and I am sure it did on many stressful and frightful occasions, but all> > the while it was helping me, at the same time it was emotionally and> > mentally abusing me. I did not see that until now. Now unlike an> > abusive partner or friend, whom you can walk away from, that's just> > not possible with your thoughts. You can't fall out with them, or> > can you......you can, but there's a catch you only end up creating a> > bigger battle in your mind. But despite knowing this the realisation of> > what my head has done to me has made me hate me (the thinking me), which> > is leading to further resistance, even more than before and more> > emotional pain on top of my physical pain, which I already find> > impossible to accept.> > > > I am trying to push forward with mindfulness, doing courses in it too.> > Forcing myself to sit with my horrible thinking self, that I hate, to> > find that it's only creating more distress. Because my thinking> > mind sees meditation time as party time to really mess with me, and its> > chucking everything, including the kitchen sink at me and I am drowning> > in a big way.> > > > Today was a full day mindfulness retreat, a day to truly develop your> > mindfulness practice. I spent 3 hours sobbing, breaking down. I did> > the" thank you mind", I did the" I am noticing the> > thought" but it is said in a tone of anger and not kindness. Which> > means I am still resisting what my head wanted me to look at. Today> > started with mindful body movement (yoga), something I excelled in years> > ago, but now triggers pain. So triggers the thoughts and the emotions> > that go with the pain, "this is painful to do", "I don't> > want to concentrate on the pain", "feel how much this really> > hurts you", "this will never go away", "I want it> > gone", "I want my old life back", "leave me depressed> > anxious and stressed but take the pain away", "its getting> > worst", "you're going to trigger a really big pain> > episode". This then evolves into the big bombs, the thoughts I> > cannot seem to diffuse from....."what are you go for> > now"....."your good for nothing"......"but I have to be> > good for something". I find I cannot diffuse from it at all, I want> > an answer to them, and before you say acceptance that's not what I> > mean, I want to know what I am good for?. And in regards to accepting> > my pain if I could come to terms with accepting my chronic physical> > pain, then for me, I am as good as saying "I am good for> > nothing". I have totally bought into this, so much so it's> > positively antique, but I want an answer "WHAT AM I GOOD FOR",> > it's not going away and I can't diffuse from it, and can't> > seem to sit with it either, so what do I do?> > > > The Body scan session was no better, nor was the loving kindness, nor> > was the mindful walking, all I was consumed by today was physical pain> > and I don't want to dwell on that, I can't do anything to change it,> > it's for life and it's ruined my life. I spent time today> > imagining the little river flowing past the lovely river bank, with the> > beautiful tress and birds and squirrels, I could even smell the flowers,> > but as soon as those leaves start coming it's not long before it> > turns into a giant tidal wave with the word "PAIN" flashing> > before me, and I am consumed and drowning again. I survived the day but> > in my own way, I can't say it was very mindful. Disappointed in> > myself, but understanding of why it turned out as it did.> > > > I have 's Book "Get out of your mind and into your> > Life", I have the Compassionate Mind Book and many others. For me I> > find ever word painful to read, mentally and physically, every exercise> > feels like the ultimate challenge, I am unfit to meet. You see even> > holding open a book causes pain, so before I even get to picking it up> > and reading all the words I feel resistant to reading, I am already> > thinking about pain, how much this will hurt, how long can I read for,> > how much will writing out the exercises hurt...so before I even get> > anywhere with my resistant thoughts about ACT and mindfulness, I am> > already stuck, with getting my head around pain, I feel I have a life> > time pass on the pain train not to mention the mind train, stuck on a> > journey going the wrong way forever.> > > > I am trapped at present, before it seemed just to be about the physical> > pain, now you can add my anger at my mind. I want to walk away from all> > parts of me, but that's not possible (well there is one, commit the> > Ultimate Experience Avoidance). I want my body back, fine mess with my> > head leave me depressed just end the physical pain. I am always angry> > and frustrated all the time. The more I am doing to get anywhere with> > that, the worst it just seems to be getting.> > > > How is it possible that you can become aware of your resistance to then> > develop even more resistance?> > > > I am completely and utterly lost with all of this. What am I not> > getting, with ACT, Mindfulness, and Compassion to help me deal with all> > of this.> > > > Jo> > > > PS, sorry this was so long, but if you took the time to read it all,> > then I am grateful you did.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 It does help, it brings to light all other addiction issues I have!Guess I will be sharing this story at NA meeting tonight.I used it for a year, kept it for 10 years, so I think it's aptly called: Glass Thought BongTCWhen the student is ready, the teacher arrives.> > >> > > > **> > > >> > > >> > > > hI > > > >> > > > "I imagined a glass of pure alcohol, no ice."> > > > I can't help smiling at this, as I imagine the pictures that came to> > your> > > > mind...--- someone is struggling> > > >> > > > -- I experienced that recently -- I forgive hurting myself -- I love> > > > alcohol -- It sometimes brings out good qualities like patience and joy> > > > in people --> > > >> > > > -- I hate alcohol -- It induces regrettable behaviors -- My mind> > > > is like an elaborate cocktail -- Let's enjoy a good cup in balance> > > >> > > > -- I still have reservation to use alcohol excessively to fight> > demons...> > > >> > > >> > > > I had been keeping a bong for weed in my home for 10 years, shifting it> > > > around it's hiding place during occasional house cleaning. All this> > while,> > > > heroin and alcohol kept me busy.> > > >> > > > Finally, I threw the bong away yesterday. Realizing and awareness of> > how> > > > RFT works on my mind helped end my struggle with this bong.> > > >> > > > *TC*> > > >> > >> > >> > > --> > > Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-T> > > Rochester, NY, US> > > http://darrellking.com> > > DarrellGKing@> > >> >> > > >> > > -- > Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-T> Rochester, NY, US> http://darrellking.com> DarrellGKing@...> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 I love it.D It does help, it brings to light all other addiction issues I have!Guess I will be sharing this story at NA meeting tonight. I used it for a year, kept it for 10 years, so I think it's aptly called: Glass Thought BongTC When the student is ready, the teacher arrives. > > >> > > > **> > > > > > > >> > > > hI > > > >> > > > " I imagined a glass of pure alcohol, no ice. " > > > > I can't help smiling at this, as I imagine the pictures that came to > > your> > > > mind...--- someone is struggling> > > >> > > > -- I experienced that recently -- I forgive hurting myself -- I love> > > > alcohol -- It sometimes brings out good qualities like patience and joy > > > > in people --> > > >> > > > -- I hate alcohol -- It induces regrettable behaviors -- My mind> > > > is like an elaborate cocktail -- Let's enjoy a good cup in balance > > > >> > > > -- I still have reservation to use alcohol excessively to fight> > demons...> > > >> > > >> > > > I had been keeping a bong for weed in my home for 10 years, shifting it > > > > around it's hiding place during occasional house cleaning. All this> > while,> > > > heroin and alcohol kept me busy.> > > >> > > > Finally, I threw the bong away yesterday. Realizing and awareness of > > how> > > > RFT works on my mind helped end my struggle with this bong.> > > >> > > > *TC*> > > >> > >> > >> > > -- > > > Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-T> > > Rochester, NY, US> > > http://darrellking.com> > > DarrellGKing@> > > > >> > > >> > > -- > Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-T> Rochester, NY, US> http://darrellking.com> DarrellGKing@... > -- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 RE: "replying to "all" is the gold standard for this group since it was designed for interaction among the group members so we can all participate in the discussions and learn from each other. I also learn from the personal messages, including the "squabbles", so I somewhat disagree that they should be kept private, unless they become prolific or ugly - but that's my personal take on it (others are uncomfortable and annoyed by such, which is just a valid a take on it)."`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````Don't know if you're referring to my recent concern when you say "others are uncomfortable or annoyed" but all I was asking (and I ask myself this now too) was to be more mindful of the function of the post, including if it needs to go to the whole group or not before you hit "reply all". It's very useful for many of us to share publicly to the group and yes, obviously it was designed in large part for interactions. In case anyone misread, I wasn't saying in any way to keep messages private or stifle yourself. Just that notice too there are lots of ways to participate here. There are over 1500 members of this group, most of whom obviously don't post at all and some who only post intermittently. You choose: Hit reply all, send a back-channel to clear up a minor question or thank someone, you can write a draft and sit with it for a few days, a few weeks and then choose to send or not. You can read along like most seem to do and not respond at all-- and still be a member of the group. ACT is about learning more flexible and effective patterns of living in terms of our values-- given the current situation that presents itself. We begin to learn to ask: What is working now? We look to function over form. So...Gold standard for this group to hit "reply all"? I don't know. Sometimes honestly hitting: "Reply ALL" for me is just more avoidance. Stacking words on top of words because it's comfortable, compelling, habitual. Because I can.I try to pause now and consider how hitting "reply all" serves my goals and values for posting. And in that pausing, some great learning has happened. Sit in questions like "What's it like to NOT be seen? To not ADD to this? Some amazing stuff comes up.This is an integral lesson of ACT, this whole process of stepping back, choosing about posting. Noticing what comes up. Not like a separate thing. I think it took me a long time to get just that. (And I still forget!)Terry To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 3:00 AM Subject: Re: Re: Resistance! Hi Jo,A warm welcome! First of all, replying to "all" is the gold standard for this group since it was designed for interaction among the group members so we can all participate in the discussions and learn from each other. I also learn from the personal messages, including the "squabbles", so I somewhat disagree that they should be kept private, unless they become prolific or ugly - but that's my personal take on it (others are uncomfortable and annoyed by such, which is just a valid a take on it). I was moved to tears by your first post and to admiration by this one. I have a sister (with the same name "Jo) who has chronic severe pain and so I know what it is like to witness, if not experience personally. It is a challenge to anyone to live a meaningful, value-driven life without such physical pain, let alone emotional, but to experience both kinds of pain at the same time is almost impossible for me to imagine. My heart goes out to you.I am wondering why the idea of values is scary to you? Values are not there to beat ourselves up with, or to set up a standard against which we must measure up. Values are more like the guiding principles of our lives that define what matters most to us in this world. There is actually nothing scary about them, although the process of clarifying, expressing and tweaking them can be daunting. I had a hard time with the concept at first, too, thinking that once I identify these things called values, I will have to measure up to them and if I don't, chalk up another one on my long list of failures. And being depressed, I didn't welcome the idea of having something like values demand my energy when I could barely get out of bed. I have since learned that values can be comforting and healing. They won't keep you warm at night when you long for the arms of another to hold you, but they will keep your heart in the right place - with what really matters to you. So as you step down the ACT path, you, too, will come to find values to be your friends - friends who are there to pick you up when you fall and get you back on track. Friends who are loving and compassionate - not punitive and punishing.I have learned a lot from your posts and the responses from the amazing people on this list. Thank you for joining us and for sharing your story with us. Remember, too, that your "story" is not always the truth about you but may be (often is) what your mind is telling you; I'm sure you've caught on to that by now! HelenaTo: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 12:26:24 PMSubject: Re: Resistance! Hello again,I don't know if I am supposed to reply to individual messages or do one reply to all the threads. Since I increase pain when I use my hands, and that my hands have been sore for days now, I need to limit the time use them today, so I hope people do not mind if I do one reply to you all. Firstly I was very grateful you took the time to read my rather long post, secondly I was surprised to get replies...part of me was expecting to be told you're in the wrong place...but your messages were all sent in kindness and appreciated. I had to re-read a few, just to get to grips with what you were saying. you metaphor confused me at first, but I understand now what you were saying. My cocktail seems to be lacking in compassion, patience, tolerance, care, willingness, joy and love, towards myself for the moment, but hopefully through the loving kindness work I am doing I will be able to add this sweeter ingredient. I know there is work to be done there. Phil, when I read your message it made me realise that because I deal with physical pain so much daily, I don't seem to want to add to it or deal with all the emotional pain either. But I am also realising that it's the emotional pain (anger, hurt, frustration etc) that's become the unbearable pain...and for that very reason alone I am going to have to be brave and stop running away from it or fighting with it, but instead just like you said invite it in, no matter how difficult it's going to be or how scared I am of it. The idea that I can dip in and out and that I don't have to open the flood gates, makes me feel a little less frightened, so thank you. , you brought up the subject of values. I know it's an essential part of ACT and I am not quite there yet with values. My psychologist is trying very hard with me to look at values, but it's something I am struggling to even understand. My first response to reading your message was panic, physically my stomach flips and ties itself in knots, then I feel this tightness increase and move to my throat and I start to choke, the pressure builds and then moves to my shoulders, neck and head. This happens every time the word VALUES is mentioned. I can say you manage to make me feel threatened and provoked, and I wanted to instantly protect myself. I started worrying about how to answer you. You see the things I loved doing, now creates physical pain, so the Jo I once was is now different, it's not that I can't do them, it's just not the same and when I try to do them it makes me want the old Jo back and that's not going to happen. I don't know the real Jo at the moment. But I will let you know of any forward steps I do make with values. , your message was reassuring in many ways, and you gave me a lot to think about. Read your message many times and my own for that matter. All the things you wrote were very accurate considering you know so little about me and at no point did I feel lectured. Your message was a bit of a of a wake up to say the least, so I spent the past 36 hours looking at what I have been doing, looking at the notes I have written over the past year and half, the messages on here and I realised your right about everything you said, and I have been using meditation as my weapon of choice to attack my thinking mind; it's no wonder it's a war when I get in there. Thats not what mediation is about either I came across a music video (of all things) that shows perfectly what happens when I mediate. The Song was "To Close" by Clare. In the video there are two Kendo Warriors, stick fighting. I watched this over and over and realised that's what I am doing with my thinking mind every time I attempt to meditate. Every contact blow is when my thinking mind hits me with a thought it knows I am fused with (the big bombs). By the end of the video one warrior is beaten to surrender (me), left to lick its wounds, and the victor who earned their place of dominance reveals themselves, they are faceless (the thinking mind). Watching it over and over again I realised something, we fight because we feel threatened and scared. As a child in school you get frightened by bullies, you fear being beaten up, your told you will be beaten up if you don't do as your told, but when you face the bully and say hit with everything you have and don't fight back, it's not worth the fight, it's only a fight if you do the same. When you stop fighting and show you're not scared of the bully, the bully is disempowered. In waking up to my thinking mind and going to war with it I only gave it more power. My thinking mind is scared it knows it's not going to have the same power over me if I continue to pursue the ACT direction I am heading in. So understandably its feeling threatened and it's fighting to defend its place, after all for 42 years it's looked after me. The words in the song talked about being still friends, but just the direction is changing. Now I get it, you have to sit with your thinking mind you have to be friends with it not enemies and you have to be strong enough and tell it the path your now choosing to take, but be thankful for their insight and help, it doesn't mean you'll always take it, or buy into it. And this is where your message came at such a good time, it reassured me that what I am going through is a process and that it's okay to be feeling the way I am. Plus you gave me a little hope and reassurance, which I think I needed. You also made me realise values work will need to be looked at no matter how scared I am to take myself to the point of discussing it. So thank you. Darrell you hit me with another blow, just like the values I do runaway from pain, emotional and physical, when you asked me to describe pain as if no one had experienced it, I positively felt sick at the thought of it. I still feel acceptance means giving up, accepting failure, I have to unblock this believe first. I read a recent message by Kaivey, which she talked about an article The Antidote: Happiness For People Who Can't Stand Positive Thinking. It talks about an alternative approach: a "negative path" to happiness that entails taking a radically different stance towards those things most of us spend our lives trying hard to avoid. This involves learning to enjoy uncertainty, embracing insecurity and becoming familiar with failure. In order to be truly happy, it turns out, we might actually need to be willing to experience more negative emotions – or, at the very least, to stop running quite so hard from them. This fits in with what you were saying, pain is something I need to be willing to look at, get in touch with and get comfortable with, and hopefully then I can get to acceptance. I have got an awful lot of work yet to do, but everyone of you helped in your own way to reassure me I am heading in the good directing and that it will take time and effort, something I have in abundance. Thank you all for helping me to open my eyes, ears and senses, I feel I have a clearer focus of what I had been doing and what I really now need to be doing. With gratitude and Appreciation Jo > >> > > > Hello to the Group,> > > > > > New to the group (any group for that matter) and not really comfortable> > about putting this out there but I promised I would try. Going by what> > I have read this past week, I am pretty much a novice in ACT. So if I> > don't use the correct terminology apologies in advance, also for the> > length, being concise is not a quality I own.> > > > General history is best known I guess. Suffer Chronic Depression,> > Stress and Anxiety for just over 20 years, but I have also been> > suffering for the past 16 years Chronic Pain. Now I know they are seen> > as the same under ACT so when I say pain I actually mean my physical> > pain - nerve pain, muscular spasm, headaches, facial, ear and eye pain,> > arm and hand pain the list could go on but why bother going into the> > medical side, you get what I am saying.> > > > I begged to be referred to a pain clinic 2 years ago as I was at my wits> > end, 6 months later I was assigned to a Pain Clinic Psychologist who> > recommend the Act approach, after all, done the psycho-analysis,> > psychotherapy, psychiatrists and CBT and still was no further forward> > in the long term.> > > > I am a year and half into ACT, and you would think I would have been> > further forward but no, why....Resistance. It was only a few months ago> > I became aware of my level of resistance, which seems to be to pretty> > much everything, not just ACT but life/living.> > > > I have spent more time in this last year and a half thinking of dying> > than living. I promised not to give up. Selling the idea to myself I> > hadn't tried hard enough with ACT. Upon realising how my mind> > resists, and waking up to the fact that thoughts are not me, I feel my> > brain has gone to war, as I have with it. I trusted my thoughts to help> > and I am sure it did on many stressful and frightful occasions, but all> > the while it was helping me, at the same time it was emotionally and> > mentally abusing me. I did not see that until now. Now unlike an> > abusive partner or friend, whom you can walk away from, that's just> > not possible with your thoughts. You can't fall out with them, or> > can you......you can, but there's a catch you only end up creating a> > bigger battle in your mind. But despite knowing this the realisation of> > what my head has done to me has made me hate me (the thinking me), which> > is leading to further resistance, even more than before and more> > emotional pain on top of my physical pain, which I already find> > impossible to accept.> > > > I am trying to push forward with mindfulness, doing courses in it too.> > Forcing myself to sit with my horrible thinking self, that I hate, to> > find that it's only creating more distress. Because my thinking> > mind sees meditation time as party time to really mess with me, and its> > chucking everything, including the kitchen sink at me and I am drowning> > in a big way.> > > > Today was a full day mindfulness retreat, a day to truly develop your> > mindfulness practice. I spent 3 hours sobbing, breaking down. I did> > the" thank you mind", I did the" I am noticing the> > thought" but it is said in a tone of anger and not kindness. Which> > means I am still resisting what my head wanted me to look at. Today> > started with mindful body movement (yoga), something I excelled in years> > ago, but now triggers pain. So triggers the thoughts and the emotions> > that go with the pain, "this is painful to do", "I don't> > want to concentrate on the pain", "feel how much this really> > hurts you", "this will never go away", "I want it> > gone", "I want my old life back", "leave me depressed> > anxious and stressed but take the pain away", "its getting> > worst", "you're going to trigger a really big pain> > episode". This then evolves into the big bombs, the thoughts I> > cannot seem to diffuse from....."what are you go for> > now"....."your good for nothing"......"but I have to be> > good for something". I find I cannot diffuse from it at all, I want> > an answer to them, and before you say acceptance that's not what I> > mean, I want to know what I am good for?. And in regards to accepting> > my pain if I could come to terms with accepting my chronic physical> > pain, then for me, I am as good as saying "I am good for> > nothing". I have totally bought into this, so much so it's> > positively antique, but I want an answer "WHAT AM I GOOD FOR",> > it's not going away and I can't diffuse from it, and can't> > seem to sit with it either, so what do I do?> > > > The Body scan session was no better, nor was the loving kindness, nor> > was the mindful walking, all I was consumed by today was physical pain> > and I don't want to dwell on that, I can't do anything to change it,> > it's for life and it's ruined my life. I spent time today> > imagining the little river flowing past the lovely river bank, with the> > beautiful tress and birds and squirrels, I could even smell the flowers,> > but as soon as those leaves start coming it's not long before it> > turns into a giant tidal wave with the word "PAIN" flashing> > before me, and I am consumed and drowning again. I survived the day but> > in my own way, I can't say it was very mindful. Disappointed in> > myself, but understanding of why it turned out as it did.> > > > I have 's Book "Get out of your mind and into your> > Life", I have the Compassionate Mind Book and many others. For me I> > find ever word painful to read, mentally and physically, every exercise> > feels like the ultimate challenge, I am unfit to meet. You see even> > holding open a book causes pain, so before I even get to picking it up> > and reading all the words I feel resistant to reading, I am already> > thinking about pain, how much this will hurt, how long can I read for,> > how much will writing out the exercises hurt...so before I even get> > anywhere with my resistant thoughts about ACT and mindfulness, I am> > already stuck, with getting my head around pain, I feel I have a life> > time pass on the pain train not to mention the mind train, stuck on a> > journey going the wrong way forever.> > > > I am trapped at present, before it seemed just to be about the physical> > pain, now you can add my anger at my mind. I want to walk away from all> > parts of me, but that's not possible (well there is one, commit the> > Ultimate Experience Avoidance). I want my body back, fine mess with my> > head leave me depressed just end the physical pain. I am always angry> > and frustrated all the time. The more I am doing to get anywhere with> > that, the worst it just seems to be getting.> > > > How is it possible that you can become aware of your resistance to then> > develop even more resistance?> > > > I am completely and utterly lost with all of this. What am I not> > getting, with ACT, Mindfulness, and Compassion to help me deal with all> > of this.> > > > Jo> > > > PS, sorry this was so long, but if you took the time to read it all,> > then I am grateful you did.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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