Guest guest Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Hello Helena, Thank you for writing to me, your message was gratefully received and I appreciated you kind words. I was sorry to hear about your sister's pain, it's a difficult illness to get your head around and deal with and it must be hard on you too to see your beloved sister in pain. I can always tell when my parents and siblings are worried and I try to shield my distress at times, so not to cause them to stress about my condition, as they are still struggling to understand and accept the condition themselves, but they are slowly beginning to be more accepting, the more accepting I become of it. I don't like my CPS because it limits my ability to used my arms and hands and affects my ability to work do my hobbies, its why I say take the pain and leave me with the depression, stress and anxiety. But the pain that comes with Depression Stress and Anxiety are very real and just as debilitating and severe. I sometimes find it difficult to identify which parts of my pain is emotional and physical that's how close they can be a times, so I have great sympahty and empathy for those who deal day in day out with these conditions too. You mentioned values, since writing my reply to resistance I have gained a little clarity, things seem to moving forward, baby steps. I have spent the last few days getting back in touch with my mind, making friends again, and not hating it or fighting with it, as I once did. Learning to sit with it and walk beside it in my life and see it as a tool to assist me, but always remembering, it has a strange way to telling you things, and not all the things it says, means what it says. Replied to a resent message from Haakon and when writing realised I was writing about Values...would you believe it...!! In it I said, " Your mind is not bulling you, it's trying to help, it just says things the wrong way and you must not buy into that, read between it. (For example I worry about being a good friend; I bought in to my mind telling me 'I am a rubbish friend'. What my mind is really telling me is I value friendship and that friendship is import to me). " It's only been the past few days I have been able to get my head around this, suddenly I can actually now see the real benefits of mindfulness and the part that meditation plays in really helping you towards a more mindful approach. Meditation just gives me the breathing space and stillness necessary to see beyond the thoughts we buy into and get in touch with the real you. So I am a little pleased about this wee step forward, but I am also realistic, still scared, still fearful and still worried. I know I have a lot of worked to do yet, it's only just the beginning, but I am hoping with the psychologists help to make more progress over the coming months, I still expect at times resistance, but I now know that when I feel that, it's because we are getting to the heart for something I really care about and value. I will let you know how things go. Love and kindness to you and your sister Jo > > > > > > > > > Hello to the Group, > > > > > > > > > New to the group (any group for that matter) and not really comfortable > > > about putting this out there but I promised I would try. Going by what > > > I have read this past week, I am pretty much a novice in ACT. So if I > > > don't use the correct terminology apologies in advance, also for the > > > length, being concise is not a quality I own. > > > > > > General history is best known I guess. Suffer Chronic Depression, > > > Stress and Anxiety for just over 20 years, but I have also been > > > suffering for the past 16 years Chronic Pain. Now I know they are seen > > > as the same under ACT so when I say pain I actually mean my physical > > > pain - nerve pain, muscular spasm, headaches, facial, ear and eye pain, > > > arm and hand pain the list could go on but why bother going into the > > > medical side, you get what I am saying. > > > > > > I begged to be referred to a pain clinic 2 years ago as I was at my wits > > > end, 6 months later I was assigned to a Pain Clinic Psychologist who > > > recommend the Act approach, after all, done the psycho-analysis, > > > psychotherapy, psychiatrists and CBT and still was no further forward > > > in the long term. > > > > > > I am a year and half into ACT, and you would think I would have been > > > further forward but no, why....Resistance. It was only a few months ago > > > I became aware of my level of resistance, which seems to be to pretty > > > much everything, not just ACT but life/living. > > > > > > I have spent more time in this last year and a half thinking of dying > > > than living. I promised not to give up. Selling the idea to myself I > > > hadn't tried hard enough with ACT. Upon realising how my mind > > > resists, and waking up to the fact that thoughts are not me, I feel my > > > brain has gone to war, as I have with it. I trusted my thoughts to help > > > and I am sure it did on many stressful and frightful occasions, but all > > > the while it was helping me, at the same time it was emotionally and > > > mentally abusing me. I did not see that until now. Now unlike an > > > abusive partner or friend, whom you can walk away from, that's just > > > not possible with your thoughts. You can't fall out with them, or > > > can you......you can, but there's a catch you only end up creating a > > > bigger battle in your mind. But despite knowing this the realisation of > > > what my head has done to me has made me hate me (the thinking me), which > > > is leading to further resistance, even more than before and more > > > emotional pain on top of my physical pain, which I already find > > > impossible to accept. > > > > > > I am trying to push forward with mindfulness, doing courses in it too. > > > Forcing myself to sit with my horrible thinking self, that I hate, to > > > find that it's only creating more distress. Because my thinking > > > mind sees meditation time as party time to really mess with me, and its > > > chucking everything, including the kitchen sink at me and I am drowning > > > in a big way. > > > > > > Today was a full day mindfulness retreat, a day to truly develop your > > > mindfulness practice. I spent 3 hours sobbing, breaking down. I did > > > the " thank you mind " , I did the " I am noticing the > > > thought " but it is said in a tone of anger and not kindness. Which > > > means I am still resisting what my head wanted me to look at. Today > > > started with mindful body movement (yoga), something I excelled in years > > > ago, but now triggers pain. So triggers the thoughts and the emotions > > > that go with the pain, " this is painful to do " , " I don't > > > want to concentrate on the pain " , " feel how much this really > > > hurts you " , " this will never go away " , " I want it > > > gone " , " I want my old life back " , " leave me depressed > > > anxious and stressed but take the pain away " , " its getting > > > worst " , " you're going to trigger a really big pain > > > episode " . This then evolves into the big bombs, the thoughts I > > > cannot seem to diffuse from..... " what are you go for > > > now " ..... " your good for nothing " ...... " but I have to be > > > good for something " . I find I cannot diffuse from it at all, I want > > > an answer to them, and before you say acceptance that's not what I > > > mean, I want to know what I am good for?. And in regards to accepting > > > my pain if I could come to terms with accepting my chronic physical > > > pain, then for me, I am as good as saying " I am good for > > > nothing " . I have totally bought into this, so much so it's > > > positively antique, but I want an answer " WHAT AM I GOOD FOR " , > > > it's not going away and I can't diffuse from it, and can't > > > seem to sit with it either, so what do I do? > > > > > > The Body scan session was no better, nor was the loving kindness, nor > > > was the mindful walking, all I was consumed by today was physical pain > > > and I don't want to dwell on that, I can't do anything to change it, > > > it's for life and it's ruined my life. I spent time today > > > imagining the little river flowing past the lovely river bank, with the > > > beautiful tress and birds and squirrels, I could even smell the flowers, > > > but as soon as those leaves start coming it's not long before it > > > turns into a giant tidal wave with the word " PAIN " flashing > > > before me, and I am consumed and drowning again. I survived the day but > > > in my own way, I can't say it was very mindful. Disappointed in > > > myself, but understanding of why it turned out as it did. > > > > > > I have 's Book " Get out of your mind and into your > > > Life " , I have the Compassionate Mind Book and many others. For me I > > > find ever word painful to read, mentally and physically, every exercise > > > feels like the ultimate challenge, I am unfit to meet. You see even > > > holding open a book causes pain, so before I even get to picking it up > > > and reading all the words I feel resistant to reading, I am already > > > thinking about pain, how much this will hurt, how long can I read for, > > > how much will writing out the exercises hurt...so before I even get > > > anywhere with my resistant thoughts about ACT and mindfulness, I am > > > already stuck, with getting my head around pain, I feel I have a life > > > time pass on the pain train not to mention the mind train, stuck on a > > > journey going the wrong way forever. > > > > > > I am trapped at present, before it seemed just to be about the physical > > > pain, now you can add my anger at my mind. I want to walk away from all > > > parts of me, but that's not possible (well there is one, commit the > > > Ultimate Experience Avoidance). I want my body back, fine mess with my > > > head leave me depressed just end the physical pain. I am always angry > > > and frustrated all the time. The more I am doing to get anywhere with > > > that, the worst it just seems to be getting. > > > > > > How is it possible that you can become aware of your resistance to then > > > develop even more resistance? > > > > > > I am completely and utterly lost with all of this. What am I not > > > getting, with ACT, Mindfulness, and Compassion to help me deal with all > > > of this. > > > > > > Jo > > > > > > PS, sorry this was so long, but if you took the time to read it all, > > > then I am grateful you did. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 A mouthful here, Terry (pun intended): Sometimes honestly hitting: " Reply ALL " for me is just more avoidance. Stacking words on top of words because it's comfortable, compelling, habitual. Because I can. D RE: " replying to " all " is the gold standard for this group since it was designed for interaction among the group members so we can all participate in the discussions and learn from each other. I also learn from the personal messages, including the " squabbles " , so I somewhat disagree that they should be kept private, unless they become prolific or ugly - but that's my personal take on it (others are uncomfortable and annoyed by such, which is just a valid a take on it). " `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````Don't know if you're referring to my recent concern when you say " others are uncomfortable or annoyed " but all I was asking (and I ask myself this now too) was to be more mindful of the function of the post, including if it needs to go to the whole group or not before you hit " reply all " . It's very useful for many of us to share publicly to the group and yes, obviously it was designed in large part for interactions. In case anyone misread, I wasn't saying in any way to keep messages private or stifle yourself. Just that notice too there are lots of ways to participate here. There are over 1500 members of this group, most of whom obviously don't post at all and some who only post intermittently. You choose: Hit reply all, send a back-channel to clear up a minor question or thank someone, you can write a draft and sit with it for a few days, a few weeks and then choose to send or not. You can read along like most seem to do and not respond at all-- and still be a member of the group. ACT is about learning more flexible and effective patterns of living in terms of our values-- given the current situation that presents itself. We begin to learn to ask: What is working now? We look to function over form. So...Gold standard for this group to hit " reply all " ? I don't know. Sometimes honestly hitting: " Reply ALL " for me is just more avoidance. Stacking words on top of words because it's comfortable, compelling, habitual. Because I can. I try to pause now and consider how hitting " reply all " serves my goals and values for posting. And in that pausing, some great learning has happened. Sit in questions like " What's it like to NOT be seen? To not ADD to this? Some amazing stuff comes up. This is an integral lesson of ACT, this whole process of stepping back, choosing about posting. Noticing what comes up. Not like a separate thing. I think it took me a long time to get just that. (And I still forget!)Terry To: ACT for the Public <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 3:00 AM Subject: Re: Re: Resistance! Hi Jo,A warm welcome! First of all, replying to " all " is the gold standard for this group since it was designed for interaction among the group members so we can all participate in the discussions and learn from each other. I also learn from the personal messages, including the " squabbles " , so I somewhat disagree that they should be kept private, unless they become prolific or ugly - but that's my personal take on it (others are uncomfortable and annoyed by such, which is just a valid a take on it). I was moved to tears by your first post and to admiration by this one. I have a sister (with the same name " Jo) who has chronic severe pain and so I know what it is like to witness, if not experience personally. It is a challenge to anyone to live a meaningful, value-driven life without such physical pain, let alone emotional, but to experience both kinds of pain at the same time is almost impossible for me to imagine. My heart goes out to you. I am wondering why the idea of values is scary to you? Values are not there to beat ourselves up with, or to set up a standard against which we must measure up. Values are more like the guiding principles of our lives that define what matters most to us in this world. There is actually nothing scary about them, although the process of clarifying, expressing and tweaking them can be daunting. I had a hard time with the concept at first, too, thinking that once I identify these things called values, I will have to measure up to them and if I don't, chalk up another one on my long list of failures. And being depressed, I didn't welcome the idea of having something like values demand my energy when I could barely get out of bed. I have since learned that values can be comforting and healing. They won't keep you warm at night when you long for the arms of another to hold you, but they will keep your heart in the right place - with what really matters to you. So as you step down the ACT path, you, too, will come to find values to be your friends - friends who are there to pick you up when you fall and get you back on track. Friends who are loving and compassionate - not punitive and punishing. I have learned a lot from your posts and the responses from the amazing people on this list. Thank you for joining us and for sharing your story with us. Remember, too, that your " story " is not always the truth about you but may be (often is) what your mind is telling you; I'm sure you've caught on to that by now! HelenaTo: " ACT for the Public " <ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 12:26:24 PMSubject: Re: Resistance! Hello again,I don't know if I am supposed to reply to individual messages or do one reply to all the threads. Since I increase pain when I use my hands, and that my hands have been sore for days now, I need to limit the time use them today, so I hope people do not mind if I do one reply to you all. Firstly I was very grateful you took the time to read my rather long post, secondly I was surprised to get replies...part of me was expecting to be told you're in the wrong place...but your messages were all sent in kindness and appreciated. I had to re-read a few, just to get to grips with what you were saying. you metaphor confused me at first, but I understand now what you were saying. My cocktail seems to be lacking in compassion, patience, tolerance, care, willingness, joy and love, towards myself for the moment, but hopefully through the loving kindness work I am doing I will be able to add this sweeter ingredient. I know there is work to be done there. -- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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