Re: Where are the Paramedics?

August 30, 2000

MANY areas and communities don't depend on tourism and don't encourage or

try to attract it, so this would be meaningless to them.

Maxine

Re: [texasems-L] Where are the Paramedics?

> >

> > > I just want to say that when you are offering $24,000 per year, it is

> >best

> > > to look towards the paramedics that are graduating from class. But

when

> >you

> > > do this, you will have to worry about them leaving to work for a

service

> >in

> > > a larger market for no less than $38K per year.

> > >

> > > Junior

> > >

> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________________

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>

August 30, 2000

I just have a couple of things to touch on! I do not think you should have

to go through a 4 year or even two years of college to be a paramedic. Let

me ask you this What can you do as a medic after an AAS that I as a medic can

do with just my completion course. I realize that we are trying to raise the

standards of EMS and I hope and pray that we get that done, but personnally I

think we are going about it the wrong way. Who in thier right mind would go

through 2 or 4 years of college for a job that pays as little or less than

the local Mcs. I think if we are going to raise the standards we

should raise the pay first and then work on the education part of it. That

is just my opinion.

Jeff

August 30, 2000

I understand this and I would be willing to go to school but when I got out

of school I believe there would be no change. I would still be the same old

ambulance driver that just wasted thousands of dollars going to get an AAS or

BS for nothing.

August 30, 2000

I really don't think you get my point. I first do not have a bad attitude.

Second I went to college also I do not think an education is for nothing.

There is nothing greater on this earth than education because without you

have nothing. People can take your job they can take all your money, take

everything you have but they cannot take your education. I just want to say

I appreciate your thoughts. I want to tell you, I love EMS, if I didn't I

would not struggle to pay my bills and help my family to get all they want

just to be privileged enough to say I am in EMS. The only thing I am saying

is when the talk about having Licenser came out everyone thought it was a

wonderful idea. No more testing every four years, more money, better

education, it sounded great! Everyone began thinking " we might get a better

rep now because we will be somewhat like a nurse " . WRONG no more money, no

better rep. I know a guy that works part time for us. He would love to go

into EMS and work full time with us, but he can not afford to take a cut in

pay. He makes close to 50k a year. What do you think his job is? He drives

a truck! Imagine that a truck driver with little or no college making 50

thousand a year. I understand that his job is important he hauls oil so we

can have fuel to get on with our daily routine, But " WE SAVE LIVES " . I

personally do not have enough college hours to become licensed, and hopefully

someday I will, " Hopefully sooner than later " but at this present time I see

no reason to rush into getting licensed because other than a great education,

I receive no compensation in pay or any better rep because I better myself

and spent all the money and struggled more to pay my bills just so I could

become licensed! Now I don't know if you understand my point but I hope that

cleared it up for you the way I feel about it!

August 30, 2000

No problem, no feeling hurt. I am just talking about

the issues. Although sometimes I get emotional.

By the way, the organization that I vol. for has the

same standards for paid and vol.. I have an A.A.S. in

Paramedic Tech. and a B.S. as well. I do believe in

the same standards for all Paramedics (Paid or Vol.).

Have a nice day.

--- Dave wrote:

> :

>

> Hooooolllld on thar, pardner. I'm with you on this,

> not . First off,

> I don't live under a rock. Its a big mushroom.

> Second, I am well aware that

> some physicians do indeed volunteer of their time,

> going down to Central

> American for example to provide special medical care

> for the needy. There

> are other examples as well of professionals who

> donate time and expertise to

> special populations that would otherwise be left out

> of the system. That's

> the type of thing attorneys typically do when they

> handle cases pro bono.

> They are handling civil cases for the poor, who

> would otherwise never have

> their day in court. What these professionals don't

> do, however, is hang out

> their shingle and offer their services free gratis

> to the general population

> at large. Their colleagues would eventually crucify

> them for that (maybe

> literally). I think that is the point was

> trying to make about

> volunteers in EMS. They are providing their

> professional services to the

> general population with little or no expectation of

> compensation. Some of

> them use that lack of compensation as leverage to

> justify lower training

> standards and minimum training hours, which is my

> only big beef with

> volunteer EMS. I think all paramedics should have to

> go through the

> equivalent of an AAS program, just as nurses these

> days pretty much have to

> go through at least an ADN program. If, after that

> time and money

> investment, they want to volunteer their time and

> expertise, then I think

> they are real heros who should be given every

> accolade. BTW, I have been a

> volunteer myself and would be so again if I lived in

> an area where I was

> needed as such, and I have more than one sheepskin.

> I DO NOT buy this line

> about discouraging volunteers and volunteerism.

> There are many areas of this

> state that just don't have the resources to provide

> EMS any other way. Its

> not that they won't its that they can't. There are

> also areas of Texas that

> COULD provide funds for a paid service that haven't

> because there were

> people willing to do it for free. Hey, if people are

> willing to do it for

> free, and if they are willing to meet the same tough

> professional standards

> that paid medics are expected to meet, I see nothing

> wrong with it. The

> point I was trying to make to was that it is

> unrealistic (as well as

> pretty cold-blooded) to expect current volunteers to

> just up and bug out on

> the citizens they serve in hopes it will force their

> county to pay them.

> First, the people who volunteer these days may have

> a lot of reasons for

> doing it, but getting paid isn't one of them.

> Second, they obviously feel

> they have a responsibility and you can't expect

> responsible people to walk

> away from that. Third, I think they know that it

> would be futile. No entity

> in Texas is required to provide EMS; no county, no

> city, no nothing. I can

> see some county governments just taking the cie la

> vie approach if their

> volunteers dried up or quit. Maybe I have a

> jaundiced view of government

> officials, but I come by it honestly.

>

> So, as I said (say didn't I see you in Marcus

> Welby, MD reruns?) I am

> on your side of this argument, more or less, and I'm

> sorry you took it

> otherwise. I don't think we can, or should, push for

> the demise of volunteer

> EMS. I just don't think we should have a double

> standard for EMS training

> and professional standards.

>

> Dave

>

> Re: [texasems-L] Where are the Paramedics?

>

> >

> > What rock have you been living under. Doctors

> have

> > given of their time to help people out when they

> could

> > not pay. Just look in the news of all of the

> cases,

> > where professionals give of their time.

> >

> > It's called voluntering. Giving to others and not

> > expecting money in return. This is a concept and

> a

> > principle that this country was built on. Or did

> you

> > forget little things like that. Read the bible,

> it

> > might answer a few things for you.

> >

> > I do not volunter to keep paid out, I do it

> because I

> > care about people and our county does not have

> enough

> > tax base to have all paid fire and ems. In fact

> we

> > have vol. police.

> >

> > When we find more money, we hire more paid. Some

> > times there just is not enough money for every

> thing.

> >

> > May be if all you are concerned about is money,

> you

> > need to go to college and learn a job that pays

> big

> > bucks. Of course that will mean that you have to

> > spend several years in school learning a

> profession.

> >

> > --- Dave wrote:

> > > :

> > >

> > > I think there is truth in what you are saying,

> but

> > > it is a bitter and

> > > distasteful truth many of our brothers and

> sisters

> > > won't be able to swallow

> > > without gagging.

> > >

> > > In just about every profession I know, save one,

> it

> > > is considered

> > > unprofessional to give of one's professional

> time

> > > and expertise for free. To

> > > do so would tend to minimize the value of the

> > > knowledge and expertise being

> > > provided and would harm the profession as a

> whole.

> > > The exception is the

> > > legal profession, where a certain number of

> civil

> > > cases have traditionally

> > > been handled pro bono. Even that is slowly

> giving

> > > way to firms' need to

> > > spend more hours on revenue-producing cases in

> order

> > > to pay the higher

> > > personnel costs they now must deal with.

> > >

> > > I think, to a certain extent, it is true that

> many

> > > counties in Texas have

> > > not found a way to pay for decent EMS personnel

> > > compensation over the years

> > > because they knew they could depend on

> volunteers

> > > who would do their best

> > > for free. However, now that volunteers are

> drying up

> > > and EMS services in

> > > some areas can no longer reliably field

> responders

> > > 24/7, we have not seen

> > > any move on the part of counties toward

> establishing

> > > paid departments or

> > > personnel. I think it is because the money is

> NOT

> > > there, at least not just

> > > lying around. In order to pay for this kind of

> > > service, county commissioners

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

August 30, 2000

S'okay, I get emotional talking about the issues, too, as some others on the

list will surely tell you. These days, when I do that, my wife hits me

upside the head and I reboot.

Dave

Re: [texasems-L] Where are the Paramedics?

> >

> > >

> > > What rock have you been living under. Doctors

> > have

> > > given of their time to help people out when they

> > could

> > > not pay. Just look in the news of all of the

> > cases,

> > > where professionals give of their time.

> > >

> > > It's called voluntering. Giving to others and not

> > > expecting money in return. This is a concept and

> > a

> > > principle that this country was built on. Or did

> > you

> > > forget little things like that. Read the bible,

> > it

> > > might answer a few things for you.

> > >

> > > I do not volunter to keep paid out, I do it

> > because I

> > > care about people and our county does not have

> > enough

> > > tax base to have all paid fire and ems. In fact

> > we

> > > have vol. police.

> > >

> > > When we find more money, we hire more paid. Some

> > > times there just is not enough money for every

> > thing.

> > >

> > > May be if all you are concerned about is money,

> > you

> > > need to go to college and learn a job that pays

> > big

> > > bucks. Of course that will mean that you have to

> > > spend several years in school learning a

> > profession.

> > >

> > > --- Dave wrote:

> > > > :

> > > >

> > > > I think there is truth in what you are saying,

> > but

> > > > it is a bitter and

> > > > distasteful truth many of our brothers and

> > sisters

> > > > won't be able to swallow

> > > > without gagging.

> > > >

> > > > In just about every profession I know, save one,

> > it

> > > > is considered

> > > > unprofessional to give of one's professional

> > time

> > > > and expertise for free. To

> > > > do so would tend to minimize the value of the

> > > > knowledge and expertise being

> > > > provided and would harm the profession as a

> > whole.

> > > > The exception is the

> > > > legal profession, where a certain number of

> > civil

> > > > cases have traditionally

> > > > been handled pro bono. Even that is slowly

> > giving

> > > > way to firms' need to

> > > > spend more hours on revenue-producing cases in

> > order

> > > > to pay the higher

> > > > personnel costs they now must deal with.

> > > >

> > > > I think, to a certain extent, it is true that

> > many

> > > > counties in Texas have

> > > > not found a way to pay for decent EMS personnel

> > > > compensation over the years

> > > > because they knew they could depend on

> > volunteers

> > > > who would do their best

> > > > for free. However, now that volunteers are

> > drying up

> > > > and EMS services in

> > > > some areas can no longer reliably field

> > responders

> > > > 24/7, we have not seen

> > > > any move on the part of counties toward

> > establishing

> > > > paid departments or

> > > > personnel. I think it is because the money is

> > NOT

> > > > there, at least not just

> > > > lying around. In order to pay for this kind of

> > > > service, county commissioners

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

> __________________________________________________

>

August 30, 2000

Thank you for your input, but you still do not catch my drift. To put it

simply this is how I feel: Show me where LP's are making more money and then

I will see where it is worth the money to go to school and further my

education. The way I look at it is the colleges are just wanting money so

they decided to try and get their foot in the door and put their hands in our

pockets and they care nothing about raising the standards of EMS they care

about raising the standards of their college and their paychecks!

August 30, 2000

Horse, Cart, what is it? Cant put my finger on it which way does it go?

Hep me Hep me! Without higher education there can be no salary

increase. Its not about what you can do, its about you education. Flame

on Flame on. Can't hurt me I'm going fishing.

Henry

jple928228@... wrote:

>

[eGroups] My Groups | Main Page | Start a new

group!

>

> I just have a couple of things to touch on! I do not think you should

> have

> to go through a 4 year or even two years of college to be a

> paramedic. Let

> me ask you this What can you do as a medic after an AAS that I as a

> medic can

> do with just my completion course. I realize that we are trying to

> raise the

> standards of EMS and I hope and pray that we get that done, but

> personnally I

> think we are going about it the wrong way. Who in thier right mind

> would go

> through 2 or 4 years of college for a job that pays as little or less

> than

> the local Mcs. I think if we are going to raise the standards

> we

> should raise the pay first and then work on the education part of it.

> That

> is just my opinion.

> Jeff

August 30, 2000

I usually keep my mouth shut and don't say anything but........... I just spent

3

hours helping a student so she could transfer from another college because she

wants a degree in EMS. I have seen a significant increase in the amount of

students registering for credit rather than non credit EMS classes. The

breakdown

I have so far (folks are still registering) is this:

credit non-credit

Basic: 22 4

EMIT: 5 1

Par: 5 1

Now I want to address some comments Jeff made.

1. I do not think you should have to go through a 4 year or even two years of

college to be a paramedic.

WE: you don't

2. Who in thier right mind would go through 2 or 4 years of college for a job

that pays as little or less than

the local Mcs.

WE: Well look at the numbers and you see there a few that think an education is

worth their time, money and effort. After all, they probably won't be on a truck

forever but with an educational background they can be your boss. Students tell

me that they take the A & P classes so they can understand the human body better.

If they know what the body is doing or suppose to do in a situation, they may be

better prepared to prevent a person from getting worse on them. They take

computer classes so they will be able to type their reports. They take English

classes so they can communicate better with others and write concise reports.

They take Psychology classes to better understand others. They take EMS classes

because they care.

3. I think if we are going to raise the standards we should raise the pay first

and then work on the education part of it.

WE: This is a part of the problem now. It's like a student once said to me, " I

paid my money for paramedic class so I should get a course completion

certificate. " WRONG! Just because I want a raise doesn't mean I'll get one. How

many nurses would there be if the pay for them was the same as a paramedic? I'm

thinking not much. If we want we pay we NEED to have the education. It's taken

nursing a long time to get where they are and with attitudes like this I don't

know if we will ever see EMS as a profession.

Well I'll get off my rant. Jeff I have nothing personal against you, just the

attitude.

Eddie

By the way Jeff, you are welcome to come to any of my classes and ask my

students

way they are pursuing a degree in EMS.

jple928228@... wrote:

>

> I just have a couple of things to touch on! I do not think you should have

> to go through a 4 year or even two years of college to be a paramedic. Let

> me ask you this What can you do as a medic after an AAS that I as a medic can

> do with just my completion course. I realize that we are trying to raise the

> standards of EMS and I hope and pray that we get that done, but personnally I

> think we are going about it the wrong way. Who in thier right mind would go

> through 2 or 4 years of college for a job that pays as little or less than

> the local Mcs. I think if we are going to raise the standards we

> should raise the pay first and then work on the education part of it. That

> is just my opinion.

> Jeff

August 30, 2000

> I just have a couple of things to touch on! I do not think you should

> have

> to go through a 4 year or even two years of college to be a

> paramedic. Let

> me ask you this What can you do as a medic after an AAS that I as a

> medic can

> do with just my completion course. I realize that we are trying to

> raise the

> stand

Jeff, you can't raise the standards of a job, just by saying " I want

more money " . The money from a job comes with being more professional,

becoming more educated. It not only comes from having more education but

using that education to raise the patient care standards. Providing

better care to our patients, even those that call us for the BS calls at

3am. Money will never go before professional standards. We in the EMS

field nationwide (I am using EMTs only) not nurses and MDs. Have got to

learn to stop fighting each other and start working together. Even

though, as someone pointed out, there are approx. 40,000 EMTs in TX

alone; that isn't enough. We need to band together nationwide, for one

voice. Stop fighting about what we can't do and start working towards

what we can. We need to have one group of EMTs (basics and paramedics

alike) asking for the same thing. We should be better trained, we should

learn medical terminology, talk like professionals, learn to write

reports like professionals. Most EMT reports I have done QA on are

poorly written, misspelled words, poor grammar. They are unable to

communicate what was wrong with the patient and why they did the

particular treatment they chose.

Don't get my wrong I am not an English major by any means. When you

read reports and QA them as being treated improperly only to have the

EMT that wrote the report complain because " this patient wasn't that bad

and didn't need X " . Well if the report says the patient had an altered

mental status then they should be treated as such. If the patient didn't

have an altered mental status then don't write the report, such that the

common person reading it thinks they did.

Jeff your comment about pay us more and then we will get the

education is like a farmer that says if you don't like my produce pay me

more for it and I will grow better produce next year. It doesn't work

that way. If a farmer wants more money for his crops he grows better

crops.

If we want more money then we have to be more professional and be

better educated. Just like when we go to the grocery store, and if we

don't like the farmer's produce we buy it elsewhere. If we don't become

more professional the powers that be will find professionals somewhere

else. Let's take the lemons we have right now and make lemonade we can

make a profit with. Let's make it the best lemonade anyone can hope to

find and in that we will be able to demand the highest price. We can

complain or we can do something about it. How many of you have looked at

the CCEMTP class and said " I don't do transports " but the knowledge

contained in the class is excellent material to learn more about what is

happening with our patients.

Folks the bottom lines is whether we are paid or volunteer it's all

about patient care. Folks we have had enough bad press lately. When is

the last time someone wrote the paper about the good things we did? It

takes 10 good things to wipe out one bad thing we have done. We are all

judged for what others in our profession does, good or bad. We have to

maximize the good and reduce the number of bad things that are done. If

we want more money we can't just stand out and picket for it. Right now

most EMS managers probably think they can find EMTs anywhere. Let's show

them that we are worth a lot more than what we are paid and let them

come to realize that we can't be replaced easily. We need to educate

them that it's more costly to hire and retrain than to keep the EMTs

they have. The answer isn't about volunteers refusing to respond or not

volunteering at all. While that is a nice thought from a money

standpoint there are many ethical and moral issues that aren't being

considered. We will one day get more money because we have become the

best, not because we decided to stop responding to calls or because we

demand it. Being the best comes from education, experience, and a

professional work ethic. Ok I will get off my soapbox now. I have my

nomex underwear on so flame away.

Dwayne

____________NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_________

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August 30, 2000

How in the world can anyone think an education is for nothing?

jple928228@... wrote:

>

> I understand this and I would be willing to go to school but when I got out

> of school I believe there would be no change. I would still be the same old

> ambulance driver that just wasted thousands of dollars going to get an AAS or

> BS for nothing.

August 30, 2000

I have spent the last two years of my life writing a textbook for the new

curriculum in hopes that the education enhancement would move the profession

along and help increase wages and working conditions. It is disappointing

to see so many people look negatively at increasing their education. What is

so bad about an AAS or BS. The degree is not all EMS. There are many other

advantages to them. Even I am still in school enhancing my education.

Education = Professionalism = Higher Salaries = Enhanced paramedic

satisfaction.

Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, Texas

BARBER wrote:

>

> Horse, Cart, what is it? Cant put my finger on it which way does it go?

> Hep me Hep me! Without higher education there can be no salary

> increase. Its not about what you can do, its about you education. Flame

> on Flame on. Can't hurt me I'm going fishing.

>

> Henry

>

> jple928228@... wrote:

>

> >

>

> [eGroups] My Groups | Main Page | Start a new

> group!

> >

> > I just have a couple of things to touch on! I do not think you should

> > have

> > to go through a 4 year or even two years of college to be a

> > paramedic. Let

> > me ask you this What can you do as a medic after an AAS that I as a

> > medic can

> > do with just my completion course. I realize that we are trying to

> > raise the

> > standards of EMS and I hope and pray that we get that done, but

> > personnally I

> > think we are going about it the wrong way. Who in thier right mind

> > would go

> > through 2 or 4 years of college for a job that pays as little or less

> > than

> > the local Mcs. I think if we are going to raise the standards

> > we

> > should raise the pay first and then work on the education part of it.

> > That

> > is just my opinion.

> > Jeff

>

August 30, 2000

mcdonalds does not even get close to our starting rate (12.8659 per hour) or

with a degree and 2 years experience (~15 per hour). we don't require the

a.s and/or b.s. that are available here, but most personnel go back and

complete the a.s. for the ~3/hr pay raise.

> Re: [texasems-L] Where are the Paramedics?

>

> I usually keep my mouth shut and don't say anything but........... I just

> spent 3

> hours helping a student so she could transfer from another college because

> she

> wants a degree in EMS. I have seen a significant increase in the amount of

> students registering for credit rather than non credit EMS classes. The

> breakdown

> I have so far (folks are still registering) is this:

> credit non-credit

> Basic: 22 4

> EMIT: 5 1

> Par: 5 1

>

> Now I want to address some comments Jeff made.

> 1. I do not think you should have to go through a 4 year or even two years

> of

> college to be a paramedic.

> WE: you don't

>

> 2. Who in thier right mind would go through 2 or 4 years of college for a

> job

> that pays as little or less than

> the local Mcs.

> WE: Well look at the numbers and you see there a few that think an

> education is

> worth their time, money and effort. After all, they probably won't be on a

> truck

> forever but with an educational background they can be your boss. Students

> tell

> me that they take the A & P classes so they can understand the human body

> better.

> If they know what the body is doing or suppose to do in a situation, they

> may be

> better prepared to prevent a person from getting worse on them. They take

> computer classes so they will be able to type their reports. They take

> English

> classes so they can communicate better with others and write concise

> reports.

> They take Psychology classes to better understand others. They take EMS

> classes

> because they care.

>

> 3. I think if we are going to raise the standards we should raise the pay

> first

> and then work on the education part of it.

> WE: This is a part of the problem now. It's like a student once said to

> me, " I

> paid my money for paramedic class so I should get a course completion

> certificate. " WRONG! Just because I want a raise doesn't mean I'll get

> one. How

> many nurses would there be if the pay for them was the same as a

> paramedic? I'm

> thinking not much. If we want we pay we NEED to have the education. It's

> taken

> nursing a long time to get where they are and with attitudes like this I

> don't

> know if we will ever see EMS as a profession.

>

> Well I'll get off my rant. Jeff I have nothing personal against you, just

> the

> attitude.

>

> Eddie

>

> By the way Jeff, you are welcome to come to any of my classes and ask my

> students

> way they are pursuing a degree in EMS.

> jple928228@... wrote:

>

> >

> > I just have a couple of things to touch on! I do not think you should

> have

> > to go through a 4 year or even two years of college to be a paramedic.

> Let

> > me ask you this What can you do as a medic after an AAS that I as a

> medic can

> > do with just my completion course. I realize that we are trying to

> raise the

> > standards of EMS and I hope and pray that we get that done, but

> personnally I

> > think we are going about it the wrong way. Who in thier right mind

> would go

> > through 2 or 4 years of college for a job that pays as little or less

> than

> > the local Mcs. I think if we are going to raise the standards we

> > should raise the pay first and then work on the education part of it.

> That

> > is just my opinion.

> > Jeff

>

August 30, 2000

Jeff:

I prefer not to get into the detailed discussion about whether having

college improves your competency as a medic or not. I happen to think it

does, for a variety of reasons, including personal observation of my own

abilities and those of some colleagues before and after the degree. That's

not the issue.

The issue is that we want to elevate paramedics and paramedicine fully into

the ranks of the medical professions. In order to do that, we have to take

certain steps in a certain order, said order firmly established by tradition

and by the experience of the other medical professions who have to accept

us. That order of things puts a universally-higher level of general (as well

as profession-specific) education first on the list. Until the vast majority

of us have at least an AAS or a BS as a part of our overall CV, the people

who have to accept us in order for us to gain professional standing aren't

going to. It is as simple as that. To expect them to act otherwise is not

being realistic. Who in their right mind will go through 2 or 4 years of

college for a job that pays as little or less than the local Mcs?

Someone with the vision to realize that the job will never pay more until

that college is the norm, rather than the exception. Someone who also

realizes that degree is the ticket into other positions that draw on his or

her past experience, as well as the formal education. The degree is the

ticket to ride. Quite frankly, ol' bean, your completion course is not worth

squat toward recognition as a medical professional, greater job

opportunities, and better pay, especially if it didn't come from a

college-based program. Not my opinion, it is demonstrated fact. Given the

drastic variation in quality allowed from one paramedic course to another in

this state, it's fair to say your educational bona fides are worthless

except to earn you a patch the other medical professions currently don't

count in the same league with their own credentials. The only people who

accept you as it stands are the other people with the same patch and that

goes nowhere toward improving our lot and our station. It would be nice to

see the pay go up first and THEN be able to work on increasing the average

education of our members, but you better get used to the idea that it's

going to work just the opposite of that. Ye pays yer money (tuition money)

and ye takes yer chances. I wish it weren't so but the fact is you don't get

the kudos and the $$$ until you expend the skull sweat and get the

sheepskin. A lot of our colleagues have decided they can't hack college for

whatever reason. That means, no matter what happens to the rest of us, they

are out of the game in the future. Sorry, it jus bees dat way!

Dave

>

> I just have a couple of things to touch on! I do not think you should

have

> to go through a 4 year or even two years of college to be a paramedic.

Let

> me ask you this What can you do as a medic after an AAS that I as a medic

can

> do with just my completion course. I realize that we are trying to raise

the

> standards of EMS and I hope and pray that we get that done, but

personnally I

> think we are going about it the wrong way. Who in thier right mind would

go

> through 2 or 4 years of college for a job that pays as little or less than

> the local Mcs. I think if we are going to raise the standards we

> should raise the pay first and then work on the education part of it.

That

> is just my opinion.

> Jeff

>

August 30, 2000

I think its " puttin' de cart a'fore de hoss. " Catch a couple of big 'uns fer

me!

Dave

Re: [texasems-L] Where are the Paramedics?

>

> Horse, Cart, what is it? Cant put my finger on it which way does it go?

> Hep me Hep me! Without higher education there can be no salary

> increase. Its not about what you can do, its about you education. Flame

> on Flame on. Can't hurt me I'm going fishing.

>

> Henry

>

> jple928228@... wrote:

>

> >

>

> [eGroups] My Groups | Main Page | Start a new

> group!

> >

> > I just have a couple of things to touch on! I do not think you should

> > have

> > to go through a 4 year or even two years of college to be a

> > paramedic. Let

> > me ask you this What can you do as a medic after an AAS that I as a

> > medic can

> > do with just my completion course. I realize that we are trying to

> > raise the

> > standards of EMS and I hope and pray that we get that done, but

> > personnally I

> > think we are going about it the wrong way. Who in thier right mind

> > would go

> > through 2 or 4 years of college for a job that pays as little or less

> > than

> > the local Mcs. I think if we are going to raise the standards

> > we

> > should raise the pay first and then work on the education part of it.

> > That

> > is just my opinion.

> > Jeff

>

August 30, 2000

Why do phycians get degrees? And why are there degrees? Should we not all just

get the minimum education we can, and don't say education, say training.

Minimal

trade schools is all we need. Shoot, since most physicians don't do much more

than prescribe drugs anyway, wouldn't a year or so of direct training do for

them? And surgeons, how much is there to learn cutting anyway? And teachers?

Heck, they're mostly paper pushers anyway.

And heck, as far as that goes, any school can teach anything with a book. So

let's have the same teachers for Paramedics, auto mechanics, refrigeration,

electronics, etc.

And while we're at it, let's ask for LOTS more money, since we've put so much

into learning our profession. I " m SURE the powers that be will buy that.

=Steve=