Re: Feeling unworthy and less than

[Guest guest]

I agree, Helena - you express these things elegantly.One issue I have faced is that of waking up enough to remember to step back from the stream, to remember that I am the not the character in the story my thoughts are telling, but rather i am the person reading the story, so to speak. I get caught up in the plot, or at least the current scene, and it becomes so real, so true, that the damage is done before I snap out of it.

Just for the record, I have gotten better. I realized over time that this is a skill, like swimming, and so understanding it could only take me so far-practice is needed to actually use it. I began the basic practice in earnest, doing breathing exercises first, then watching the body, then the thoughts, and I grew stronger. Nowadays, I wake up very quickly when the stories start. My mind is better trained because of these mental workouts.

I remember the early days, though, and how real the stories and their associated emotional content seemed, and I empathize with folks who find some of them so compelling they feel submerged in them. Sortta like being trapped in a nightmare, with escape only an eyeblink away, but not knowing I can wake up to it....?

D

 

Lin, I think you are on the right track, but ACT views things slightly differently than Dr. Wayne Dyer does in this case (e.g., imagining positive things about yourself). That sounds like a good idea on the surface, but it doesn't make room for simple acceptance of negative thoughts without buying into them.  Instead of saying " No more negative thoughts for me because they're just not true " (which is resistance), we could simply say " Hello " to those thoughts and let them be there without resistance.  You can't order negative thoughts away or they will come on even stronger in short order.  The more you try to deny their presence (e.g., by consciously switching to positive thoughts to replace the negative ones), the stronger they will become.  This is a critical concept to grasp in ACT.  It seems counter-intuitive, but when you finally get it, it has a lot of power to get you out of your mind and into your life.  

It may not be possible to let those negative thoughts " sail quietly out of your mind " but it is totally possible to just let them be there - make room for them - while quietly going about the business of living according to your values - in spite of those negative thoughts.  Let them sit in your mind - say " hello " and pull up a chair for them.  Perhaps you are thinking of the " leaves on the stream " exercise where you put each thought on a leaf and watch the leaves float down a stream.  That can be a helpful metaphor - a way to view your thoughts as a stream of consciousness  - but it will not remove them from your mind if they insist on being there.  The stream itself is in your mind!  So they will be there anyway, no matter what you do - but you do not have to let them have any power.  Let them chatter on senselessly while you DO what you need to do.  They may even start yelling as you imagine them floating down the stream.  The chatter may quiet down eventually, just as squabbling children eventually quiet down - but you can't count on that.  Expectations of a certain outcome are sure to disappoint; rather, we can let things unfold as they will when we live according to our values.  

HelenaFrom: " Darrell King " <DarrellGKinggmail>

To: " ACT for the Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 8:02:48 PMSubject: Re: Feeling unworthy and less than

 

A thought is just a thought, Lin - I agree. Positive or negative or whatever. But my thoughts, at least, are con men, skilled actors who masquerade as other things. They have fooled me so often, I often forget there are thoughts at all! Instead, my head is filled with masterful productions, comedies and tragedies and soap operas, all so convincing I am so enthralled I can relive events from thirty years ago without even questioning the sanity of such a thing.

Marcia says she is less likely to question the identity of her thoughts when depressed, with the inference that their performance is strongly related to the depression - a cycle of hypnotic enchantment a little like being so engrossed in a movie I miss the phone ringing or the person calling me from the next room. It takes only a moment to turn away and take a breath, to take a break from the movie and remember reality, but what can get into my trance and remind me to do it?

Gotta luv the human mind!D

-- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@...

[Guest guest]

Philip, I love the human mind because it is such an awesome survival machine. Able to rapidly assemble endless models of the war, like one of those tables all the generals stand around in war movies. Only there are many tables in the room, all running at once, and I might be at any one of them right now, fascinated by the various strategies and stories unfolding as the little pieces are moved about.

Even more impressive is the way my commanding general makes sure I pay attention to the many predictions and strategies he is working on, using my own emotion to keep me at the table and glued to the story he is telling. It is almost sad that this kind of loyalty and commitment to my survival can go overboard, the overeager general who gets so excited he can't stop waving his arms and yelling.

I guess in the end it is up to me to gently thank the general for his dedication, maybe calm him a bit and send him out for a coffee break, and then take a break from the table myself. It works for me...nowadays, anyway.

DOn Saturday, June 16, 2012, on wrote:

 

Being new to the list, I am reading so much that is meaningful to me and recognizing that there are others who are experiencing the same things or similar things.  In particular, as Darrell  mentions below, our thoughts as con men and the fact that they have fooled me and still fool me.  My thoughts from 50 years ago still come back to haunt me.  In addition, there are my perceptions or events in the present that still haunt me.  

-- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@...

[Guest guest]

Darrell, I love the reminder you're not the character in the story your thoughts are telling you, but rather the person reading the story. That sounds weird at first, but it is so true. And you're right, it does get easier with practice to be able to step out of one's head and observe the story without getting caught in the plot. Also, the analogy of being trapped in a nightmare with escape only an eyeblink away brought to mind 's story of the "prisoner" who was not aware that there were actually no locks where he thought he was confined. I looked up that message and am posting the link here for those who want to read it again, or for the first time (I got a lot out of re-reading it and am going to print it out this time):http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/message/ Wow, that is powerful! Thanks again, .HelenaTo: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 8:31:40 AMSubject: Re: Feeling unworthy and less than

I agree, Helena - you express these things elegantly.One issue I have faced is that of waking up enough to remember to step back from the stream, to remember that I am the not the character in the story my thoughts are telling, but rather i am the person reading the story, so to speak. I get caught up in the plot, or at least the current scene, and it becomes so real, so true, that the damage is done before I snap out of it.

Just for the record, I have gotten better. I realized over time that this is a skill, like swimming, and so understanding it could only take me so far-practice is needed to actually use it. I began the basic practice in earnest, doing breathing exercises first, then watching the body, then the thoughts, and I grew stronger. Nowadays, I wake up very quickly when the stories start. My mind is better trained because of these mental workouts.

I remember the early days, though, and how real the stories and their associated emotional content seemed, and I empathize with folks who find some of them so compelling they feel submerged in them. Sortta like being trapped in a nightmare, with escape only an eyeblink away, but not knowing I can wake up to it....?

D

Lin, I think you are on the right track, but ACT views things slightly differently than Dr. Wayne Dyer does in this case (e.g., imagining positive things about yourself). That sounds like a good idea on the surface, but it doesn't make room for simple acceptance of negative thoughts without buying into them. Instead of saying "No more negative thoughts for me because they're just not true" (which is resistance), we could simply say "Hello" to those thoughts and let them be there without resistance. You can't order negative thoughts away or they will come on even stronger in short order. The more you try to deny their presence (e.g., by consciously switching to positive thoughts to replace the negative ones), the stronger they will become. This is a critical concept to grasp in ACT. It seems counter-intuitive, but when you finally get it, it has a lot of power to get you out of your mind and into your life.

It may not be possible to let those negative thoughts "sail quietly out of your mind" but it is totally possible to just let them be there - make room for them - while quietly going about the business of living according to your values - in spite of those negative thoughts. Let them sit in your mind - say "hello" and pull up a chair for them. Perhaps you are thinking of the "leaves on the stream" exercise where you put each thought on a leaf and watch the leaves float down a stream. That can be a helpful metaphor - a way to view your thoughts as a stream of consciousness - but it will not remove them from your mind if they insist on being there. The stream itself is in your mind! So they will be there anyway, no matter what you do - but you do not have to let them have any power. Let them chatter on senselessly while you DO what you need to do. They may even start yelling as you imagine them floating down the stream. The chatter may quiet down eventually, just as squabbling children eventually quiet down - but you can't count on that. Expectations of a certain outcome are sure to disappoint; rather, we can let things unfold as they will when we live according to our values.

HelenaFrom: "Darrell King" <DarrellGKinggmail>

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 8:02:48 PMSubject: Re: Feeling unworthy and less than

A thought is just a thought, Lin - I agree. Positive or negative or whatever. But my thoughts, at least, are con men, skilled actors who masquerade as other things. They have fooled me so often, I often forget there are thoughts at all! Instead, my head is filled with masterful productions, comedies and tragedies and soap operas, all so convincing I am so enthralled I can relive events from thirty years ago without even questioning the sanity of such a thing.

Marcia says she is less likely to question the identity of her thoughts when depressed, with the inference that their performance is strongly related to the depression - a cycle of hypnotic enchantment a little like being so engrossed in a movie I miss the phone ringing or the person calling me from the next room. It takes only a moment to turn away and take a breath, to take a break from the movie and remember reality, but what can get into my trance and remind me to do it?

Gotta luv the human mind!D

-- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@...

[Guest guest]

Sorry - the link I provided for 's prior post is wrong. It is message #14724 in the archives. This link should work:http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/message/14724 From: "hbbr" To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 8:54:19 AMSubject: Re: Feeling unworthy and less than

Darrell, I love the reminder you're not the character in the story your thoughts are telling you, but rather the person reading the story. That sounds weird at first, but it is so true. And you're right, it does get easier with practice to be able to step out of one's head and observe the story without getting caught in the plot. Also, the analogy of being trapped in a nightmare with escape only an eyeblink away brought to mind 's story of the "prisoner" who was not aware that there were actually no locks where he thought he was confined. I looked up that message and am posting the link here for those who want to read it again, or for the first time (I got a lot out of re-reading it and am going to print it out this time):http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/message/ Wow, that is powerful! Thanks again, .HelenaTo: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 8:31:40 AMSubject: Re: Feeling unworthy and less than

I agree, Helena - you express these things elegantly.One issue I have faced is that of waking up enough to remember to step back from the stream, to remember that I am the not the character in the story my thoughts are telling, but rather i am the person reading the story, so to speak. I get caught up in the plot, or at least the current scene, and it becomes so real, so true, that the damage is done before I snap out of it.

Just for the record, I have gotten better. I realized over time that this is a skill, like swimming, and so understanding it could only take me so far-practice is needed to actually use it. I began the basic practice in earnest, doing breathing exercises first, then watching the body, then the thoughts, and I grew stronger. Nowadays, I wake up very quickly when the stories start. My mind is better trained because of these mental workouts.

I remember the early days, though, and how real the stories and their associated emotional content seemed, and I empathize with folks who find some of them so compelling they feel submerged in them. Sortta like being trapped in a nightmare, with escape only an eyeblink away, but not knowing I can wake up to it....?

D

Lin, I think you are on the right track, but ACT views things slightly differently than Dr. Wayne Dyer does in this case (e.g., imagining positive things about yourself). That sounds like a good idea on the surface, but it doesn't make room for simple acceptance of negative thoughts without buying into them. Instead of saying "No more negative thoughts for me because they're just not true" (which is resistance), we could simply say "Hello" to those thoughts and let them be there without resistance. You can't order negative thoughts away or they will come on even stronger in short order. The more you try to deny their presence (e.g., by consciously switching to positive thoughts to replace the negative ones), the stronger they will become. This is a critical concept to grasp in ACT. It seems counter-intuitive, but when you finally get it, it has a lot of power to get you out of your mind and into your life.

It may not be possible to let those negative thoughts "sail quietly out of your mind" but it is totally possible to just let them be there - make room for them - while quietly going about the business of living according to your values - in spite of those negative thoughts. Let them sit in your mind - say "hello" and pull up a chair for them. Perhaps you are thinking of the "leaves on the stream" exercise where you put each thought on a leaf and watch the leaves float down a stream. That can be a helpful metaphor - a way to view your thoughts as a stream of consciousness - but it will not remove them from your mind if they insist on being there. The stream itself is in your mind! So they will be there anyway, no matter what you do - but you do not have to let them have any power. Let them chatter on senselessly while you DO what you need to do. They may even start yelling as you imagine them floating down the stream. The chatter may quiet down eventually, just as squabbling children eventually quiet down - but you can't count on that. Expectations of a certain outcome are sure to disappoint; rather, we can let things unfold as they will when we live according to our values.

HelenaFrom: "Darrell King" <DarrellGKinggmail>

To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 8:02:48 PMSubject: Re: Feeling unworthy and less than

A thought is just a thought, Lin - I agree. Positive or negative or whatever. But my thoughts, at least, are con men, skilled actors who masquerade as other things. They have fooled me so often, I often forget there are thoughts at all! Instead, my head is filled with masterful productions, comedies and tragedies and soap operas, all so convincing I am so enthralled I can relive events from thirty years ago without even questioning the sanity of such a thing.

Marcia says she is less likely to question the identity of her thoughts when depressed, with the inference that their performance is strongly related to the depression - a cycle of hypnotic enchantment a little like being so engrossed in a movie I miss the phone ringing or the person calling me from the next room. It takes only a moment to turn away and take a breath, to take a break from the movie and remember reality, but what can get into my trance and remind me to do it?

Gotta luv the human mind!D

-- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@...

[Guest guest]

Did not go to the right message, Helena. But anything that made such an impression on you is worth reading - would you please check the link? Thank you in advance for any help!

DOn Saturday, June 16, 2012, hbbr wrote:

 Darrell, I love the reminder you're not the character in the story your thoughts are telling you, but rather the person reading the story. That sounds weird at first, but it is so true.  And you're right, it does get easier with practice to be able to step out of one's head and observe the story without getting caught in the plot.  

Also, the analogy of being trapped in a nightmare with escape only an eyeblink away brought to mind 's story of the " prisoner " who was not aware that there were actually no locks where he thought he was confined.  I looked up that message and am posting the link here for those who want to read it again, or for the first time (I got a lot out of re-reading it and am going to print it out this time):

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/message/ 

Wow, that is powerful!  Thanks again, .HelenaFrom:  " Darrell King "

To:  " ACT for the Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 8:31:40 AM

Subject: Re: Feeling unworthy and less than I agree, Helena - you express these things elegantly.

One issue I have faced is that of waking up enough to remember to step back from the stream, to remember that I am the not the character in the story my thoughts are telling, but rather i am the person reading the story, so to speak. I get caught up in the plot, or at least the current scene, and it becomes so real, so true, that the damage is done before I snap out of it.

Just for the record, I have gotten better. I realized over time that this is a skill, like swimming, and so understanding it could only take me so far-practice is needed to actually use it. I began the basic practice in earnest, doing breathing exercises first, then watching the body, then the thoughts, and I grew stronger. Nowadays, I wake up very quickly when the stories start. My mind is better trained because of these mental workouts.

I remember the early days, though, and how real the stories and their associated emotional content seemed, and I empathize with folks who find some of them so compelling they feel submerged in them. Sortta like being trapped in a nightmare, with escape only an eyeblink away, but not knowing I can wake up to it....?

D

-- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@...

[Guest guest]

So far, I have had a good weekend. The thoughts still came but I didnt linger on

them as long as usual. I too like the idea of being the person who is telling

the story but rather reading the story. That is defiently a way of not buying

into thoughts. I am probably better able to do this on antidepressents. Not

happy about this but I am chooding right now not to believe what I am telling

myself about me as a person on antidepressents.

I love to learn and am open minded from who I learn from. I also love authors

such as Wayne Dwyer. I have read him for over 25 years. I take what helps and

leave the rest. I also find that most recently these type of writers are also

focusing on thoughts as being just thoughts.

What I did learn from people like him was the other choices for thoughts,

feelings and actions. I have an idea why I didnt know these things but I really

didnt know so much. It's like never growing up with running water and then

experiencing it as an adult. Sometimes, I still try to go to the pump other

times , it automatically flows out the faucet when I turn the knob. Not a great

analogy but I am choosing not to focus on my lack this morning.

I also learned other ways of looking at things especailly thoughts from this

group.

Thank you, all

Lin

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > Darrell, I love the reminder you're not the character in the story your

> > thoughts are telling you, but rather the person reading the story. That

> > sounds weird at first, but it is so true. And you're right, it does get

> > easier with practice to be able to step out of one's head and observe the

> > story without getting caught in the plot.

> > Also, the analogy of being trapped in a nightmare with escape only an

> > eyeblink away brought to mind 's story of the " prisoner " who was not

> > aware that there were actually no locks where he thought he was confined.

> > I looked up that message and am posting the link here for those who want

> > to read it again, or for the first time (I got a lot out of re-reading it

> > and am going to print it out this time):

> >

> > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/message/

> >

> > Wow, that is powerful! Thanks again, .

> >

> > Helena

> >

> > ------------------------------

> > *From: * " Darrell King "

<DarrellGKing@...<https://mail.google.com/mail/mu/mp/910/>

> > >

> > *To: * " ACT for the Public "

<ACT_for_the_Public <https://mail.google.com/mail/mu/mp/910/>

> > >

> > *Sent: *Saturday, June 16, 2012 8:31:40 AM

> > *Subject: *Re: Feeling unworthy and less than

> >

> >

> >

> > I agree, Helena - you express these things elegantly.

> >

> > One issue I have faced is that of waking up enough to remember to step

> > back from the stream, to remember that I am the not the character in the

> > story my thoughts are telling, but rather i am the person reading the

> > story, so to speak. I get caught up in the plot, or at least the current

> > scene, and it becomes so real, so true, that the damage is done before I

> > snap out of it.

> >

> > Just for the record, I have gotten better. I realized over time that this

> > is a skill, like swimming, and so understanding it could only take me so

> > far-practice is needed to actually use it. I began the basic practice in

> > earnest, doing breathing exercises first, then watching the body, then the

> > thoughts, and I grew stronger. Nowadays, I wake up very quickly when the

> > stories start. My mind is better trained because of these mental workouts.

> >

> > I remember the early days, though, and how real the stories and their

> > associated emotional content seemed, and I empathize with folks who find

> > some of them so compelling they feel submerged in them. Sortta like being

> > trapped in a nightmare, with escape only an eyeblink away, but not knowing

> > I can wake up to it....?

> >

> > D

> >

>

>

> --

> Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-T

> Rochester, NY, US

> http://darrellking.com

> DarrellGKing@...

>

[Guest guest]

Hey, Lin...I recently adopted a second med for hypertension and three for chronic pain. I am not find of that either, but I choose not to buy into any stories aout how this makes me crippled or dependent or flawed. In fact, when I look around mindfully, I see that everyone around me is less than perfect. Each has brudens to bar, so if some seem successful and happy, it isn't because he has a carefree, flawless life (whatevver that might be).

A tip: there are no flaws. Just ways of looking at myself, of building my self-image. There was a time I chose to be defined by my " flaws " , but thankfully no more. Nowadays, whenever I see my kind presenting me with a self-image, it is just another story to look at. 

If it weren't meds, it would be something else - all just fodder for stories.FWIW.D

 

So far, I have had a good weekend. The thoughts still came but I didnt linger on them as long as usual. I too like the idea of being the person who is telling the story but rather reading the story. That is defiently a way of not buying into thoughts. I am probably better able to do this on antidepressents. Not happy about this but I am chooding right now not to believe what I am telling myself about me as a person on antidepressents.

I love to learn and am open minded from who I learn from. I also love authors such as Wayne Dwyer. I have read him for over 25 years. I take what helps and leave the rest. I also find that most recently these type of writers are also focusing on thoughts as being just thoughts.

What I did learn from people like him was the other choices for thoughts, feelings and actions. I have an idea why I didnt know these things but I really didnt know so much. It's like never growing up with running water and then experiencing it as an adult. Sometimes, I still try to go to the pump other times , it automatically flows out the faucet when I turn the knob. Not a great analogy but I am choosing not to focus on my lack this morning.

I also learned other ways of looking at things especailly thoughts from this group.

Thank you, all

Lin

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > Darrell, I love the reminder you're not the character in the story your

> > thoughts are telling you, but rather the person reading the story. That

> > sounds weird at first, but it is so true. And you're right, it does get

> > easier with practice to be able to step out of one's head and observe the

> > story without getting caught in the plot.

> > Also, the analogy of being trapped in a nightmare with escape only an

> > eyeblink away brought to mind 's story of the " prisoner " who was not

> > aware that there were actually no locks where he thought he was confined.

> > I looked up that message and am posting the link here for those who want

> > to read it again, or for the first time (I got a lot out of re-reading it

> > and am going to print it out this time):

> >

> > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/message/

> >

> > Wow, that is powerful! Thanks again, .

> >

> > Helena

> >

> > ------------------------------

> > *From: * " Darrell King " <DarrellGKing@...<https://mail.google.com/mail/mu/mp/910/>

> > >

> > *To: * " ACT for the Public " <ACT_for_the_Public <https://mail.google.com/mail/mu/mp/910/>

> > >

> > *Sent: *Saturday, June 16, 2012 8:31:40 AM

> > *Subject: *Re: Feeling unworthy and less than

> >

> >

> >

> > I agree, Helena - you express these things elegantly.

> >

> > One issue I have faced is that of waking up enough to remember to step

> > back from the stream, to remember that I am the not the character in the

> > story my thoughts are telling, but rather i am the person reading the

> > story, so to speak. I get caught up in the plot, or at least the current

> > scene, and it becomes so real, so true, that the damage is done before I

> > snap out of it.

> >

> > Just for the record, I have gotten better. I realized over time that this

> > is a skill, like swimming, and so understanding it could only take me so

> > far-practice is needed to actually use it. I began the basic practice in

> > earnest, doing breathing exercises first, then watching the body, then the

> > thoughts, and I grew stronger. Nowadays, I wake up very quickly when the

> > stories start. My mind is better trained because of these mental workouts.

> >

> > I remember the early days, though, and how real the stories and their

> > associated emotional content seemed, and I empathize with folks who find

> > some of them so compelling they feel submerged in them. Sortta like being

> > trapped in a nightmare, with escape only an eyeblink away, but not knowing

> > I can wake up to it....?

> >

> > D

> >

>

>

> --

> Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-T

> Rochester, NY, US

> http://darrellking.com

> DarrellGKing@...

>

-- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@...

[Guest guest]

Today was one of those day when I really felt less than and it seemed like so

much of the positive I accomplished over the past week emotionally was

meaningless. It was difficult to get out of my head and put into practice ACT

principles. Demons from my past seemed to dominate and especially particular

events where my being felt threatened (emotionally). I need to wake up and

believe I am not that character in the stream, but as you mentioned, it becomes

such a reality; I cannot see how it can be otherwise. The trapped in a nightmare

comparison, Darrell, definitely describes it. Not feeling well physically

certainly contributes to that. As I read what many of you post related to

physical and emotional I see what a struggle that is and how much one feed off

the other. I appreciate all the posts and thanks for reading.

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > Lin, I think you are on the right track, but ACT views things slightly

> > differently than Dr. Wayne Dyer does in this case (e.g., imagining positive

> > things about yourself). That sounds like a good idea on the surface, but it

> > doesn't make room for simple acceptance of negative thoughts without buying

> > into them. Instead of saying " No more negative thoughts for me because

> > they're just not true " (which is resistance), we could simply say " Hello "

> > to those thoughts and let them be there without resistance. You can't

> > order negative thoughts away or they will come on even stronger in short

> > order. The more you try to deny their presence (e.g., by consciously

> > switching to positive thoughts to replace the negative ones), the stronger

> > they will become. This is a critical concept to grasp in ACT. It seems

> > counter-intuitive, but when you finally get it, it has a lot of power to

> > get you out of your mind and into your life.

> >

> > It may not be possible to let those negative thoughts " sail quietly out of

> > your mind " but it is totally possible to just let them be there - make room

> > for them - while quietly going about the business of living according to

> > your values - in spite of those negative thoughts. Let them sit in your

> > mind - say " hello " and pull up a chair for them. Perhaps you are thinking

> > of the " leaves on the stream " exercise where you put each thought on a leaf

> > and watch the leaves float down a stream. That can be a helpful metaphor -

> > a way to view your thoughts as a stream of consciousness - but it will not

> > remove them from your mind if they insist on being there. The stream

> > itself is in your mind! So they will be there anyway, no matter what you

> > do - but you do not have to let them have any power. Let them chatter on

> > senselessly while you DO what you need to do. They may even start yelling

> > as you imagine them floating down the stream. The chatter may quiet down

> > eventually, just as squabbling children eventually quiet down - but you

> > can't count on that. Expectations of a certain outcome are sure to

> > disappoint; rather, we can let things unfold as they will when we live

> > according to our values.

> >

> > Helena

> > ------------------------------

> > *

> > *To: * " ACT for the Public "

<ACT_for_the_Public <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',

'ACT_for_the_Public ');>

> > >

> > *Sent: *Friday, June 15, 2012 8:02:48 PM

> > *Subject: *Re: Feeling unworthy and less than

> >

> >

> >

> > A thought is just a thought, Lin - I agree. Positive or negative or

> > whatever. But my thoughts, at least, are con men, skilled actors who

> > masquerade as other things. They have fooled me so often, I often forget

> > there are thoughts at all! Instead, my head is filled with masterful

> > productions, comedies and tragedies and soap operas, all so convincing I am

> > so enthralled I can relive events from thirty years ago without even

> > questioning the sanity of such a thing.

> >

> > Marcia says she is less likely to question the identity of her thoughts

> > when depressed, with the inference that their performance is strongly

> > related to the depression - a cycle of hypnotic enchantment a little like

> > being so engrossed in a movie I miss the phone ringing or the person

> > calling me from the next room. It takes only a moment to turn away and take

> > a breath, to take a break from the movie and remember reality, but what can

> > get into my trance and remind me to do it?

> >

> > Gotta luv the human mind!

> >

> > D

> >

> >

>

> --

> Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-T

> Rochester, NY, US

> http://darrellking.com

> DarrellGKing@...

>

[Guest guest]

Today was one of those day when I really felt less than and it seemed like so

much of the positive I accomplished over the past week emotionally was

meaningless. It was difficult to get out of my head and put into practice ACT

principles. Demons from my past seemed to dominate and especially particular

events where my being felt threatened (emotionally). I need to wake up and

believe I am not that character in the stream, but as you mentioned, it becomes

such a reality; I cannot see how it can be otherwise. The trapped in a nightmare

comparison, Darrell, definitely describes it. Not feeling well physically

certainly contributes to that. As I read what many of you post related to

physical and emotional I see what a struggle that is and how much one feed off

the other. I appreciate all the posts and thanks for reading.

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > Lin, I think you are on the right track, but ACT views things slightly

> > differently than Dr. Wayne Dyer does in this case (e.g., imagining positive

> > things about yourself). That sounds like a good idea on the surface, but it

> > doesn't make room for simple acceptance of negative thoughts without buying

> > into them. Instead of saying " No more negative thoughts for me because

> > they're just not true " (which is resistance), we could simply say " Hello "

> > to those thoughts and let them be there without resistance. You can't

> > order negative thoughts away or they will come on even stronger in short

> > order. The more you try to deny their presence (e.g., by consciously

> > switching to positive thoughts to replace the negative ones), the stronger

> > they will become. This is a critical concept to grasp in ACT. It seems

> > counter-intuitive, but when you finally get it, it has a lot of power to

> > get you out of your mind and into your life.

> >

> > It may not be possible to let those negative thoughts " sail quietly out of

> > your mind " but it is totally possible to just let them be there - make room

> > for them - while quietly going about the business of living according to

> > your values - in spite of those negative thoughts. Let them sit in your

> > mind - say " hello " and pull up a chair for them. Perhaps you are thinking

> > of the " leaves on the stream " exercise where you put each thought on a leaf

> > and watch the leaves float down a stream. That can be a helpful metaphor -

> > a way to view your thoughts as a stream of consciousness - but it will not

> > remove them from your mind if they insist on being there. The stream

> > itself is in your mind! So they will be there anyway, no matter what you

> > do - but you do not have to let them have any power. Let them chatter on

> > senselessly while you DO what you need to do. They may even start yelling

> > as you imagine them floating down the stream. The chatter may quiet down

> > eventually, just as squabbling children eventually quiet down - but you

> > can't count on that. Expectations of a certain outcome are sure to

> > disappoint; rather, we can let things unfold as they will when we live

> > according to our values.

> >

> > Helena

> > ------------------------------

> > *

> > *To: * " ACT for the Public "

<ACT_for_the_Public <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',

'ACT_for_the_Public ');>

> > >

> > *Sent: *Friday, June 15, 2012 8:02:48 PM

> > *Subject: *Re: Feeling unworthy and less than

> >

> >

> >

> > A thought is just a thought, Lin - I agree. Positive or negative or

> > whatever. But my thoughts, at least, are con men, skilled actors who

> > masquerade as other things. They have fooled me so often, I often forget

> > there are thoughts at all! Instead, my head is filled with masterful

> > productions, comedies and tragedies and soap operas, all so convincing I am

> > so enthralled I can relive events from thirty years ago without even

> > questioning the sanity of such a thing.

> >

> > Marcia says she is less likely to question the identity of her thoughts

> > when depressed, with the inference that their performance is strongly

> > related to the depression - a cycle of hypnotic enchantment a little like

> > being so engrossed in a movie I miss the phone ringing or the person

> > calling me from the next room. It takes only a moment to turn away and take

> > a breath, to take a break from the movie and remember reality, but what can

> > get into my trance and remind me to do it?

> >

> > Gotta luv the human mind!

> >

> > D

> >

> >

>

> --

> Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-T

> Rochester, NY, US

> http://darrellking.com

> DarrellGKing@...

>

[Guest guest]

Forgot to sign...the last message....Phil

Today was one of those day when I really felt less than and it seemed like so much of the positive I accomplished over the past week emotionally was meaningless. It was difficult to get out of my head and put into practice ACT principles. Demons from my past seemed to dominate and especially particular events where my being felt threatened (emotionally). I need to wake up and believe I am not that character in the stream, but as you mentioned, it becomes such a reality; I cannot see how it can be otherwise. The trapped in a nightmare comparison, Darrell, definitely describes it. Not feeling well physically certainly contributes to that. As I read what many of you post related to physical and emotional I see what a struggle that is and how much one feed off the other. I appreciate all the posts and thanks for reading.

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > Lin, I think you are on the right track, but ACT views things slightly

> > differently than Dr. Wayne Dyer does in this case (e.g., imagining positive

> > things about yourself). That sounds like a good idea on the surface, but it

> > doesn't make room for simple acceptance of negative thoughts without buying

> > into them. Instead of saying "No more negative thoughts for me because

> > they're just not true" (which is resistance), we could simply say "Hello"

> > to those thoughts and let them be there without resistance. You can't

> > order negative thoughts away or they will come on even stronger in short

> > order. The more you try to deny their presence (e.g., by consciously

> > switching to positive thoughts to replace the negative ones), the stronger

> > they will become. This is a critical concept to grasp in ACT. It seems

> > counter-intuitive, but when you finally get it, it has a lot of power to

> > get you out of your mind and into your life.

> >

> > It may not be possible to let those negative thoughts "sail quietly out of

> > your mind" but it is totally possible to just let them be there - make room

> > for them - while quietly going about the business of living according to

> > your values - in spite of those negative thoughts. Let them sit in your

> > mind - say "hello" and pull up a chair for them. Perhaps you are thinking

> > of the "leaves on the stream" exercise where you put each thought on a leaf

> > and watch the leaves float down a stream. That can be a helpful metaphor -

> > a way to view your thoughts as a stream of consciousness - but it will not

> > remove them from your mind if they insist on being there. The stream

> > itself is in your mind! So they will be there anyway, no matter what you

> > do - but you do not have to let them have any power. Let them chatter on

> > senselessly while you DO what you need to do. They may even start yelling

> > as you imagine them floating down the stream. The chatter may quiet down

> > eventually, just as squabbling children eventually quiet down - but you

> > can't count on that. Expectations of a certain outcome are sure to

> > disappoint; rather, we can let things unfold as they will when we live

> > according to our values.

> >

> > Helena

> > ------------------------------

> > *

> > *To: *"ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'ACT_for_the_Public ');>

> > >

> > *Sent: *Friday, June 15, 2012 8:02:48 PM

> > *Subject: *Re: Feeling unworthy and less than

> >

> >

> >

> > A thought is just a thought, Lin - I agree. Positive or negative or

> > whatever. But my thoughts, at least, are con men, skilled actors who

> > masquerade as other things. They have fooled me so often, I often forget

> > there are thoughts at all! Instead, my head is filled with masterful

> > productions, comedies and tragedies and soap operas, all so convincing I am

> > so enthralled I can relive events from thirty years ago without even

> > questioning the sanity of such a thing.

> >

> > Marcia says she is less likely to question the identity of her thoughts

> > when depressed, with the inference that their performance is strongly

> > related to the depression - a cycle of hypnotic enchantment a little like

> > being so engrossed in a movie I miss the phone ringing or the person

> > calling me from the next room. It takes only a moment to turn away and take

> > a breath, to take a break from the movie and remember reality, but what can

> > get into my trance and remind me to do it?

> >

> > Gotta luv the human mind!

> >

> > D

> >

> >

>

> --

> Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-T

> Rochester, NY, US

> http://darrellking.com

> DarrellGKing@...

>

[Guest guest]

Forgot to sign...the last message....Phil

Today was one of those day when I really felt less than and it seemed like so much of the positive I accomplished over the past week emotionally was meaningless. It was difficult to get out of my head and put into practice ACT principles. Demons from my past seemed to dominate and especially particular events where my being felt threatened (emotionally). I need to wake up and believe I am not that character in the stream, but as you mentioned, it becomes such a reality; I cannot see how it can be otherwise. The trapped in a nightmare comparison, Darrell, definitely describes it. Not feeling well physically certainly contributes to that. As I read what many of you post related to physical and emotional I see what a struggle that is and how much one feed off the other. I appreciate all the posts and thanks for reading.

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > Lin, I think you are on the right track, but ACT views things slightly

> > differently than Dr. Wayne Dyer does in this case (e.g., imagining positive

> > things about yourself). That sounds like a good idea on the surface, but it

> > doesn't make room for simple acceptance of negative thoughts without buying

> > into them. Instead of saying "No more negative thoughts for me because

> > they're just not true" (which is resistance), we could simply say "Hello"

> > to those thoughts and let them be there without resistance. You can't

> > order negative thoughts away or they will come on even stronger in short

> > order. The more you try to deny their presence (e.g., by consciously

> > switching to positive thoughts to replace the negative ones), the stronger

> > they will become. This is a critical concept to grasp in ACT. It seems

> > counter-intuitive, but when you finally get it, it has a lot of power to

> > get you out of your mind and into your life.

> >

> > It may not be possible to let those negative thoughts "sail quietly out of

> > your mind" but it is totally possible to just let them be there - make room

> > for them - while quietly going about the business of living according to

> > your values - in spite of those negative thoughts. Let them sit in your

> > mind - say "hello" and pull up a chair for them. Perhaps you are thinking

> > of the "leaves on the stream" exercise where you put each thought on a leaf

> > and watch the leaves float down a stream. That can be a helpful metaphor -

> > a way to view your thoughts as a stream of consciousness - but it will not

> > remove them from your mind if they insist on being there. The stream

> > itself is in your mind! So they will be there anyway, no matter what you

> > do - but you do not have to let them have any power. Let them chatter on

> > senselessly while you DO what you need to do. They may even start yelling

> > as you imagine them floating down the stream. The chatter may quiet down

> > eventually, just as squabbling children eventually quiet down - but you

> > can't count on that. Expectations of a certain outcome are sure to

> > disappoint; rather, we can let things unfold as they will when we live

> > according to our values.

> >

> > Helena

> > ------------------------------

> > *

> > *To: *"ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'ACT_for_the_Public ');>

> > >

> > *Sent: *Friday, June 15, 2012 8:02:48 PM

> > *Subject: *Re: Feeling unworthy and less than

> >

> >

> >

> > A thought is just a thought, Lin - I agree. Positive or negative or

> > whatever. But my thoughts, at least, are con men, skilled actors who

> > masquerade as other things. They have fooled me so often, I often forget

> > there are thoughts at all! Instead, my head is filled with masterful

> > productions, comedies and tragedies and soap operas, all so convincing I am

> > so enthralled I can relive events from thirty years ago without even

> > questioning the sanity of such a thing.

> >

> > Marcia says she is less likely to question the identity of her thoughts

> > when depressed, with the inference that their performance is strongly

> > related to the depression - a cycle of hypnotic enchantment a little like

> > being so engrossed in a movie I miss the phone ringing or the person

> > calling me from the next room. It takes only a moment to turn away and take

> > a breath, to take a break from the movie and remember reality, but what can

> > get into my trance and remind me to do it?

> >

> > Gotta luv the human mind!

> >

> > D

> >

> >

>

> --

> Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-T

> Rochester, NY, US

> http://darrellking.com

> DarrellGKing@...

>

[Guest guest]

Practice, s100ac100 (cool name, BTW). Generations have tried and found that practice will lead to a change in perspective, improvement in your use of the skills. I realize this is small comfort and I feel a little heartless offering it, but I believe in it. Like swimming or penmanship, it improves with 

practice. And I find the practice brings me some instant relief, too. The work of mindfulness and defusion turns my mind from the problem to the solution, I guess.D

On Monday, June 18, 2012, s100ac100 wrote:

 Today was one of those day when I really felt less than and it seemed like so much of the positive I accomplished over the past week emotionally was meaningless. It was difficult to get out of my head and put into practice ACT principles. Demons from my past seemed to dominate and especially particular events where my being felt threatened (emotionally). I need to wake up and believe I am not that character in the stream, but as you mentioned, it becomes such a reality; I cannot see how it can be otherwise. The trapped in a nightmare comparison, Darrell, definitely describes it. Not feeling well physically certainly contributes to that. As I read what many of you post related to physical and emotional I see what a struggle that is and how much one feed off the other. I appreciate all the posts and thanks for reading. 

>> I agree, Helena - you express these things elegantly.

> > One issue I have faced is that of waking up enough to remember to step back> from the stream, to remember that I am the not the character in the story> my thoughts are telling, but rather i am the person reading the story, so

> to speak. I get caught up in the plot, or at least the current scene, and> it becomes so real, so true, that the damage is done before I snap out of> it.> > Just for the record, I have gotten better. I realized over time that this

> is a skill, like swimming, and so understanding it could only take me so> far-practice is needed to actually use it. I began the basic practice in> earnest, doing breathing exercises first, then watching the body, then the

> thoughts, and I grew stronger. Nowadays, I wake up very quickly when the> stories start. My mind is better trained because of these mental workouts.> > I remember the early days, though, and how real the stories and their

> associated emotional content seemed, and I empathize with folks who find> some of them so compelling they feel submerged in them. Sortta like being> trapped in a nightmare, with escape only an eyeblink away, but not knowing

> I can wake up to it....?> > D

-- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@...

[Guest guest]

Practice, s100ac100 (cool name, BTW). Generations have tried and found that practice will lead to a change in perspective, improvement in your use of the skills. I realize this is small comfort and I feel a little heartless offering it, but I believe in it. Like swimming or penmanship, it improves with 

practice. And I find the practice brings me some instant relief, too. The work of mindfulness and defusion turns my mind from the problem to the solution, I guess.D

On Monday, June 18, 2012, s100ac100 wrote:

 Today was one of those day when I really felt less than and it seemed like so much of the positive I accomplished over the past week emotionally was meaningless. It was difficult to get out of my head and put into practice ACT principles. Demons from my past seemed to dominate and especially particular events where my being felt threatened (emotionally). I need to wake up and believe I am not that character in the stream, but as you mentioned, it becomes such a reality; I cannot see how it can be otherwise. The trapped in a nightmare comparison, Darrell, definitely describes it. Not feeling well physically certainly contributes to that. As I read what many of you post related to physical and emotional I see what a struggle that is and how much one feed off the other. I appreciate all the posts and thanks for reading. 

>> I agree, Helena - you express these things elegantly.

> > One issue I have faced is that of waking up enough to remember to step back> from the stream, to remember that I am the not the character in the story> my thoughts are telling, but rather i am the person reading the story, so

> to speak. I get caught up in the plot, or at least the current scene, and> it becomes so real, so true, that the damage is done before I snap out of> it.> > Just for the record, I have gotten better. I realized over time that this

> is a skill, like swimming, and so understanding it could only take me so> far-practice is needed to actually use it. I began the basic practice in> earnest, doing breathing exercises first, then watching the body, then the

> thoughts, and I grew stronger. Nowadays, I wake up very quickly when the> stories start. My mind is better trained because of these mental workouts.> > I remember the early days, though, and how real the stories and their

> associated emotional content seemed, and I empathize with folks who find> some of them so compelling they feel submerged in them. Sortta like being> trapped in a nightmare, with escape only an eyeblink away, but not knowing

> I can wake up to it....?> > D

-- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@...