Re: I will no longer read any emails from Kaivey

June 4, 2012

, you have no right to ask anyone to leave this list. We have moderators who have that responsibility. You have every right to choose to not read certain posts. Each of us will become annoyed or even angry at times with certain posts - we are simply being human. But we need to be flexible enough to show compassion for each other. Sometimes that means making room for what we don't like without trying to control it or make it go away. HelenaTo: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 1:08:11 AMSubject: I will no longer read any emails from Kaivey

Hi all,I think Kaivey is a total distraction and disturbance to this list and so I will not even read messages from him. I hope this doesn't interfere with the flow of any of the threads. I hope he just leaves the group for good.

Now, you may say this is experiential avoidance. Hell yeah, it is - I want to avoid experiencing Kaivey and his BS on being brain damage. You might say this is a good opportunity to practice the ACT acceptance. Perhaps, but I have lots of other opportunities for that.

June 4, 2012

, you have no right to ask anyone to leave this list. We have moderators who have that responsibility. You have every right to choose to not read certain posts. Each of us will become annoyed or even angry at times with certain posts - we are simply being human. But we need to be flexible enough to show compassion for each other. Sometimes that means making room for what we don't like without trying to control it or make it go away. HelenaTo: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 1:08:11 AMSubject: I will no longer read any emails from Kaivey

Hi all,I think Kaivey is a total distraction and disturbance to this list and so I will not even read messages from him. I hope this doesn't interfere with the flow of any of the threads. I hope he just leaves the group for good.

Now, you may say this is experiential avoidance. Hell yeah, it is - I want to avoid experiencing Kaivey and his BS on being brain damage. You might say this is a good opportunity to practice the ACT acceptance. Perhaps, but I have lots of other opportunities for that.

June 4, 2012

, I withdraw my statement that you have no right...you do, of course. It's a free country. I should have said that it is, in my opinion, inappropriate to ask a list member to leave. Rather, any concerns should be addressed with the moderators (could you guys post again how we can reach you?). Keep in mind these words from the list guidelines:This list has a culture of openness and respect. We don't do "flame wars" onthis list: try to put "being right and looking good" at the door. Negativepersonal comments of all kinds are unwelcome (watch your adjectives!). ...There are no hard and fast rules on the list. The only thing that will for sureget you kicked off is spam, but bad behavior (ad hominem messages;etc) could also do it. Helena To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 6:04:58 AMSubject: Re: I will no longer read any emails from Kaivey

, you have no right to ask anyone to leave this list. We have moderators who have that responsibility. You have every right to choose to not read certain posts. Each of us will become annoyed or even angry at times with certain posts - we are simply being human. But we need to be flexible enough to show compassion for each other. Sometimes that means making room for what we don't like without trying to control it or make it go away. HelenaTo: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 1:08:11 AMSubject: I will no longer read any emails from Kaivey

Hi all,I think Kaivey is a total distraction and disturbance to this list and so I will not even read messages from him. I hope this doesn't interfere with the flow of any of the threads. I hope he just leaves the group for good.

Now, you may say this is experiential avoidance. Hell yeah, it is - I want to avoid experiencing Kaivey and his BS on being brain damage. You might say this is a good opportunity to practice the ACT acceptance. Perhaps, but I have lots of other opportunities for that.

June 4, 2012

, I withdraw my statement that you have no right...you do, of course. It's a free country. I should have said that it is, in my opinion, inappropriate to ask a list member to leave. Rather, any concerns should be addressed with the moderators (could you guys post again how we can reach you?). Keep in mind these words from the list guidelines:This list has a culture of openness and respect. We don't do "flame wars" onthis list: try to put "being right and looking good" at the door. Negativepersonal comments of all kinds are unwelcome (watch your adjectives!). ...There are no hard and fast rules on the list. The only thing that will for sureget you kicked off is spam, but bad behavior (ad hominem messages;etc) could also do it. Helena To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 6:04:58 AMSubject: Re: I will no longer read any emails from Kaivey

, you have no right to ask anyone to leave this list. We have moderators who have that responsibility. You have every right to choose to not read certain posts. Each of us will become annoyed or even angry at times with certain posts - we are simply being human. But we need to be flexible enough to show compassion for each other. Sometimes that means making room for what we don't like without trying to control it or make it go away. HelenaTo: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 1:08:11 AMSubject: I will no longer read any emails from Kaivey

Hi all,I think Kaivey is a total distraction and disturbance to this list and so I will not even read messages from him. I hope this doesn't interfere with the flow of any of the threads. I hope he just leaves the group for good.

Now, you may say this is experiential avoidance. Hell yeah, it is - I want to avoid experiencing Kaivey and his BS on being brain damage. You might say this is a good opportunity to practice the ACT acceptance. Perhaps, but I have lots of other opportunities for that.

June 4, 2012

Hi There are lots of ways of possible ways of dealing with this problem. If you are so minded, I think you can block posts from individual members, or you can privately email the administrator and ask them to contact the member about the content of their posts. Otherwise, yes, you can accept that we have an open and relatively uncensored forum and as part of that we will meet people that rub us up the wrong way. But I'm afraid that bullying someone off the list is not an option that I can sit by and tolerate. It is a playground tactic, and a rather nasty one. Best wishes

x To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Monday, 4 June 2012, 6:08 Subject: I will no longer read any emails from Kaivey

Hi all,I think Kaivey is a total distraction and disturbance to this list and so I will not even read messages from him. I hope this doesn't interfere with the flow of any of the threads. I hope he just leaves the group for good.

Now, you may say this is experiential avoidance. Hell yeah, it is - I want to avoid experiencing Kaivey and his BS on being brain damage. You might say this is a good opportunity to practice the ACT acceptance. Perhaps, but I have lots of other opportunities for that.

June 4, 2012

Hi There are lots of ways of possible ways of dealing with this problem. If you are so minded, I think you can block posts from individual members, or you can privately email the administrator and ask them to contact the member about the content of their posts. Otherwise, yes, you can accept that we have an open and relatively uncensored forum and as part of that we will meet people that rub us up the wrong way. But I'm afraid that bullying someone off the list is not an option that I can sit by and tolerate. It is a playground tactic, and a rather nasty one. Best wishes

x To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Monday, 4 June 2012, 6:08 Subject: I will no longer read any emails from Kaivey

Hi all,I think Kaivey is a total distraction and disturbance to this list and so I will not even read messages from him. I hope this doesn't interfere with the flow of any of the threads. I hope he just leaves the group for good.

Now, you may say this is experiential avoidance. Hell yeah, it is - I want to avoid experiencing Kaivey and his BS on being brain damage. You might say this is a good opportunity to practice the ACT acceptance. Perhaps, but I have lots of other opportunities for that.

June 4, 2012

Thank you Helena for your support. To say that stress destroyed my

hippocampus was rather strong (I tend to talk in dramatic terms), but it

has certainly diminished it, probably considerably. Of course, I haven't

had a brainscan to know in my case what has happened, but the evidence

that stress reduces the size of the hippocampus is simlpy a fact.

I really don't know what all the fuss is about.

Kv

>

> , I withdraw my statement that you have no right...you do, of

course. It's a free country. I should have said that it is, in my

opinion, inappropriate to ask a list member to leave. Rather, any

concerns should be addressed with the moderators (could you guys post

again how we can reach you?). Keep in mind these words from the list

guidelines:

>

> This list has a culture of openness and respect. We don't do " flame

wars " on

> this list: try to put " being right and looking good " at the door.

Negative

>

> personal comments of all kinds are unwelcome (watch your adjectives!).

> ...

> There are no hard and fast rules on the list. The only thing that will

for sure

> get you kicked off is spam, but bad behavior (ad hominem messages;

> etc) could also do it.

>

> Helena

> I will no longer read any emails from

Kaivey

>

> Hi all,

>

> I think Kaivey is a total distraction and disturbance to this list and

so I will not even read messages from him. I hope this doesn't interfere

with the flow of any of the threads. I hope he just leaves the group for

good.

>

> Now, you may say this is experiential avoidance. Hell yeah, it is - I

want to avoid experiencing Kaivey and his BS on being brain damage. You

might say this is a good opportunity to practice the ACT acceptance.

Perhaps, but I have lots of other opportunities for that.

>

June 4, 2012

Thank you Helena for your support. To say that stress destroyed my

hippocampus was rather strong (I tend to talk in dramatic terms), but it

has certainly diminished it, probably considerably. Of course, I haven't

had a brainscan to know in my case what has happened, but the evidence

that stress reduces the size of the hippocampus is simlpy a fact.

I really don't know what all the fuss is about.

Kv

>

> , I withdraw my statement that you have no right...you do, of

course. It's a free country. I should have said that it is, in my

opinion, inappropriate to ask a list member to leave. Rather, any

concerns should be addressed with the moderators (could you guys post

again how we can reach you?). Keep in mind these words from the list

guidelines:

>

> This list has a culture of openness and respect. We don't do " flame

wars " on

> this list: try to put " being right and looking good " at the door.

Negative

>

> personal comments of all kinds are unwelcome (watch your adjectives!).

> ...

> There are no hard and fast rules on the list. The only thing that will

for sure

> get you kicked off is spam, but bad behavior (ad hominem messages;

> etc) could also do it.

>

> Helena

> I will no longer read any emails from

Kaivey

>

> Hi all,

>

> I think Kaivey is a total distraction and disturbance to this list and

so I will not even read messages from him. I hope this doesn't interfere

with the flow of any of the threads. I hope he just leaves the group for

good.

>

> Now, you may say this is experiential avoidance. Hell yeah, it is - I

want to avoid experiencing Kaivey and his BS on being brain damage. You

might say this is a good opportunity to practice the ACT acceptance.

Perhaps, but I have lots of other opportunities for that.

>

June 4, 2012

I'm quite happy to leave if the moderators ask me to go, as I might be a bit too mixed up for this site. Perhaps one of them will contact me privately and tell me where I went wrong. Still, I think my posts have lot of merit and I would have thought they have helped a lot of people too.

And I'm really touched by your supprt, Helena.

As I am here, I would like to say that Dr Sarno completes my list of heroes and his theories on psychosomatics have really helped me:

Professor Sarno's theories about psychosomatic illness are not well recieved either. He has studied the link between the state of mind and physical illnesses. When I posted about this before here on this site a lot of people got very angry, but Sarno is not saying some people's illnesses and are all in the mind, all he is saying is that a distressed mind can cause the body to malfunction too. 80% of the public don't accept his theories, and many doctors are skeptical, but I think Dr Sarno theories are full of hope. He's a nice guy.

An interview with Sarno: The Divided Mind.

I won't be posting for a while week or so now, as I have overdone it a bit recently.

Kv

> >> >> > , I withdraw my statement that you have no right...you do, of> course. It's a free country. I should have said that it is, in my> opinion, inappropriate to ask a list member to leave. Rather, any> concerns should be addressed with the moderators (could you guys post> again how we can reach you?). Keep in mind these words from the list> guidelines:> >> > This list has a culture of openness and respect. We don't do "flame> wars" on> > this list: try to put "being right and looking good" at the door.> Negative> >> > personal comments of all kinds are unwelcome (watch your adjectives!).> > ...> > There are no hard and fast rules on the list. The only thing that will> for sure> > get you kicked off is spam, but bad behavior (ad hominem messages;> > etc) could also do it.> >> > Helena> > I will no longer read any emails from> Kaivey> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Hi all,> >> >> > I think Kaivey is a total distraction and disturbance to this list and> so I will not even read messages from him. I hope this doesn't interfere> with the flow of any of the threads. I hope he just leaves the group for> good.> >> >> > Now, you may say this is experiential avoidance. Hell yeah, it is - I> want to avoid experiencing Kaivey and his BS on being brain damage. You> might say this is a good opportunity to practice the ACT acceptance.> Perhaps, but I have lots of other opportunities for that.> >> >> > > >>

June 4, 2012

The thing the group brings to this that is different thanany other situation is the the whole group is trying tobalance these issues of acceptance, values, and perspective taking.It produces an interesting kind of back and forth

in which as a kind of cultural matter we are trying to learnhow to be with each other in a way that is open, values-based, andeffective.I get the frustration with reading posts you don't like.

I get having the thought " I wish you'd just go away! " But then there is the post itself. What do you say about such things?And that thought puts you back into acceptance, values, and perspective taking.

What are we trying to do with each other? With ourselves?What is the function of a post to this list; of this list itself?I'm sure the reactions to your post will walk that same territory.

It seems a bit harsh -- people will have the thought " I don't like that. " Some might even be tempted to say " go away " back.I see that some have already said " that 'go away' part crosses a line. "

(sure. Worth saying. And then ...)And then, again, we come back to the work.Think of " the work " as you might a walk.The nature of that walk is in the very name " ACT " --

balancing open access to emotions and thoughtswith meaning and action. (and one pivotal part that is not in the name)The " A " (acceptance/defusion) part is like stepping with your left foot and then the " C "

(values / action) part is likestepping with your right.In between is balancing. If you don't get your balance you fall downand neither left nor right is possible. The balancing part is implicit -- its YOU

and WE.You come into balance with self / present moment ...with perspective taking in the here and now.But the kind of self we are talking about is socialbecause of that perspective taking piece.

You come into balance with being and presence -- being who youare in this moment and allowing others to be who they are inthis moment. That is the center. It's isn't just ME, it is WE, because

" me " came into existence inside the " we " of a community thatshaped your consciousness inside language. It is not good grammarbut we is the center.Left, center, right

Left, center, rightThat's the walkFunny thing -- that is the walk we walk with anxiety, depression, substance us, etc.The things that brought us to this list. That is it

But it is also the walk ON this list. It is the walk in our homes, relationships,families, churches, work settings, and political groups........

So back to the irritation about brains.Yeah, I've seen some long posts about brains here.And sometimes I do wonder what that is all about.I'm often not sure what to DO with it -- especially

when it is all taken pretty literally.There is a lot of cultural attention to brains nowadaysand we are learning a lot about brains. I think we knowless than the scientists sometimes pretend ... and there is an

underlying feel of " mechanical man " that is inside much of that workthat does not work for me (or fit with what I think we really know about brains IMHO).

So yeah acceptance ... but of what? Of brain talk? Of not knowing whatto DO with it?Sure, that's part of itThen perspective taking comes in. ME and WE shows up. And acceptance work begins to

shift into what it is like to feel as though you are just not yourself anymore.And years of heavy meds may have changed you. And that thought is very much like " because of my panic I'm just not myself

anymore. " Or " because of that trauma I'm just not myself anymore. " I'm usually not that interested in brains qua brains insidetalk of human experience (I've written scholarly tomes

on brain processes mind you but for a different purposein which taking the data literally is part of the game).In this context I see it as a way of speaking. Experience is the heart of it.

Cast that way it seems pretty list relevant: what do we do about that feeling thatyou are just not yourself anymore? We feel damaged, unable to move.and we have thoughts about why. How do we move?

The values and action part is digging down to issues that matter and trying to make a healthy difference for ourselves and others.I wish now I'd posted some about brain talk and how to

use it without it using you ... didn't do that. Left people hanging.Maybe this is a small repairHmmm. Lesson learnedBut now we come back to " get the heck off of the list ... I've had it. "

And is the same freakin deal.What do we do when people irritate us; seemingly distract us;go on and and about stuff we don't care about.We want to push them away. Even that freakin ACT talk

( " don't tell me to accept it! Just go away! " )I get that space too. It too seems really familiar.I hate feeling like this (whatever the this is);I'm tired of it (so the thought goes); I want it and the horse

in rode in on to go away forever (if life were only like that!Go away forever!)And OK. I too wince at the " go away " part. Of course it is " not your call "

I'm glad that was posted and said but in this messageI'm not taking it literally. I'm taking it functionally. And thereit belongs again. " I can't stand it anymore. Go away! "

Even that. Yep. I visit that regularly myself.The values and action part is digging down to issues that matter. And there is an issue here that matters.What do we with feelings like this?

Back to the WE and ME partThe people on this list matter. I watch how itworks. Left, center, right. Somehow we move forward.Taking the time to post at all, or to read a post, is a tiny values

based action ... and even more so if we can bring consciousness to thesesimple interchanges and allow them to be what they are:an extension of basic questions of learning to be with ourselves

and with othersThat's what they are.And that's the walkOK, its 5am and I have a grant to help my wife finish.The grant is on how to help parents become more flexible

and values based with their college kids so that kids adjust tothat life transition better. We are calling it " PATS " (Parents Allied for Transition Success).Don't know if it will work. Do know we need to learn how.

Like this list itselfPeace, love, and life gang.Lovely to start my day with you.Truly- S C.

Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062 " Love isn't everything, it's the only thing " hayes@... or stevenchayes@...

Fax: Psych Department: Contextual Change (you can use this number for messages if need be): Blogs: Psychology Today http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/get-out-your-mind

Huffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-c-hayes-phdIf you want my vita, publications, PowerPoint slides, try my training page:

http://contextualpsychology.org/steve_hayesor you can try my website (it is semi-functional) stevenchayes.com

If you have any questions about ACT or RFT (articles, AAQ information etc), please first check the vast resources at website of the Association for Contextual Behavioral Science (ACBS): www.contextualpsychology.org. You have to register on the site to download things, but the cost is up to your own values.

If you are a professional or student and want to be part of the world wide ACT discussion or RFT discussions, join the ACT list: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/acceptanceandcommitmenttherapy/join

or the RFT list:http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/relationalframetheory/joinIf you are a member of the public reading ACT self-help books (e.g., " Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life " etc) and want to be part of that conversation go to: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/join

Hi all,I think Kaivey is a total distraction and disturbance to this list and so I will not even read messages from him. I hope this doesn't interfere with the flow of any of the threads. I hope he just leaves the group for good.

Now, you may say this is experiential avoidance. Hell yeah, it is - I want to avoid experiencing Kaivey and his BS on being brain damage. You might say this is a good opportunity to practice the ACT acceptance. Perhaps, but I have lots of other opportunities for that.

June 4, 2012