Meditation

[Guest guest]

Hey Darrell,Thanks for the interesting conversation. I see, so sounds like you're using the term chaos for unpredictable and/or unwanted events that happen in life.Yes, accepting this as so is a huge part of this work. Oh, okay..yeah unpredictable stuff happens all the time if that's what you mean by chaos. And yes, there is link for me too between feeling threatened and not being able to accept whatever swirls my way.The other part here I was emphasizing with Steve's comments is noticing

my suffering with respect to forming valued choices in the moment--As what would you do right now-- "just cuz"? For self-fidelity. I don't think he can say that too often. I'm always a bit taken aback by this. The notion that I make my own rules (values in the moment) based on what my heart and gut and experience tells me is still something that my mind resists. Usually as in outside myself. Ones that you/they wrote. Pliance stuff. "Other directed" as they say (vs. inner-directed). Looking for reassurance I picked the right value and the right goal. I have a really hard time with choosing and then letting go. I will spend hours in a restaurant looking over the menu. Now some of that is really enjoyable, entertaining my options. But after I've chosen? Well..looking and noticing that my mind will tend to say: Hmm...wonder if that was the right one? Now I see someone has an interesting looking dish..oh that looks good..I should have ordered that! Picked the wrong one again! Shoot. But I am catching myself more with this sort of thing these days. Looking

to be a good girl, looking for the right way, what I should do, shouldn't do. Make myself small, diminish myself in the process.Guessing mostly it's about an unconscious desire to stay safe. So back to safety stuff.Even though no real danger for the most part to begin with. And...to the extent I do this I tend to invent danger or distraction or drama that wasn't there. An example: I complained to about the fused dogma I sometimes encounter in AA meetings. Lots of judging and comparing and lecturing about doing it right.This is the stuff that feeds right into my rule book hunt. So I have to be careful with holding it all very lightly, but also remembering why the hell I am even there, and to keepnoticing what is useful there and what isn't. And to trust that. Just cuz. Poor , he hears me whine a lot. He reminds me to pick and choose. "It's not like they're in charge anyway".Isn't it? My mind sure believes so. Someone is in charge here,

right? (Oh, that would be me!). And someone else mentioned there are no rules in AA. But lots of folks acting and talking like there sure are, like there is a formula for how to do the program right, better, best. But after you start talking to enough people, you will see there is no one way for sure. There are lots and lots of ways. But folks do like to language it up as a certain way. And if you don't do it this way exactly, you lose big. You might relapse, die...etc. I had a therapist once who told me just in passing that truly, I didn't have to do anything they in AA tell me to do. I couldn't believe my ears. I was shocked. I told her how shocked I was at learning this. And she in turn couldn't believe that her comment made that much of a difference for me! Unfortunately, we didn't get to work around this suffering but I am now working with someone else around this. So, that's how bad I've got this looking for a rule

book. So, if a miracle could happen and I could really get there was no rule book out there, what might my life look like?Hmmm!terry*BTW, I just read your other post here about your work scenario where they told you Friday come

talk with management first thing Monday. Wow, talk about an opportunity

to practice accepting whatever swirls your way! I'd probably be spinning like crazy with such news. And what a waste of a weekend it would be for me..as in "Lost Weekend". Hang in there..maybe it will be something benign. Maybe not. But what can you do about it in your head? Meanwhile you have a weekend here. Hope it's enjoyable. Life is so damn short. To: "ACT_for_the_Public "

<ACT_for_the_Public > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:02 PM Subject: Re: Meditation

I do see them linked, Terry. If rules are obeyed, things become more predictable. Predictability equates to increased safety. Rules create the illusion of order out of chaos. At any moment, that driver in the next lane could cut into me, but the rule that he should not allows me to (suspiciously) race alongside him at high speed. Rules allow for relationships, cooperative projects, social enterprise. Useful

stuff!

The mind needs language instructions to do its job of guarding our safety. Rules fit right in. But I accept that rules are not

absolute realities. That drive may swerve, my spouse may wander, coworkers may fail to carry their share of the load, or my neighbor may sleep through his neighborhood watch shift. Chaos! But reality, and thus

the only sane thing to do is accept it because anything else is denying

reality, yes?

D

Thanks DarrellRe: No Rule Book:

I never knew until Steve EXPLICITLY drew it out for me. And

then his predecessors/students try to, in one way or the other.And I will still want to forget this. And that is why I'm so grateful for ACT. And this list.

I am so incredibly fused beyond belief and looking for rules.."Rule goverened, literal...etc, etc......"Re:

your own experience: You made friends with the concept of chaos? You don't need to make the world safe? I like that...a lot.

Okay, so are you saying you see the need to make the world safe linked to this need

for a rule book?In any case, I do want a rule book, whatever the reason.

To: "ACT_for_the_Public " <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 2:56 PM Subject: Re: Meditation

Great

comment regarding the rule book, Terry. Seems my own world became much calmer when I made friends with the concept of chaos. More evidence for acceptance for me: I don't need to make the world safe. I just need to get better at dealing with what swirls my way today. As you say, who knew?

D

Thanks

Steve. This is very helpful on several levels as you back up and notice the suffering around the activity and then broaden the question out so that

it applies to all of us..the struggle here is not necessarily

about meditate or not..it's about my relationship to myself and being present with my choices compassionately.

I totally get the self-fidelity, "just 'cuz" commenting here.

I do have lots of suffering around the notion that I can't choose, really. Mind insists no way is it a free universe.That it must be this way or the highway.

Keep looking for the rule book, even though there is none apparently. Who knew? terry

To: ACT_for_the_Public Sent: Monday, July 9, 2012 11:20 AM Subject: Re: Meditation

This is a hard question to ask inside misery but here goes:If you were to invite all of that along for the ride and do something of your choosing (not to alter what is along for the ride but to

add the qualities of action inside whatever you might choose to do), what would you do?Here is another version of the question that might be useful:If it was a free universe and you could choose what to be doing and its purpose

(not what you would be thinking, feeling, sensing, or remembering butwhat you would be doing and why) -- what would you choose?Given that is there ANYTHING inside that set, small or large,

you could do today. Not for self-manipulation -- more for self-fidelity.As kids say "just 'cuz".If your answer is yes, hold that answer like you would a flashlight when you are lost in the dark.

When lost in the dark a flashlight beam provides an invitation. Not a guarantee ofanything, but an invitation: here is a directionDo you take it? Here, be kind to yourself regardless and just open you eyes wide and watch

how it works. Either way, you will learn. See if you can sit with your choice as your choice for this moment.Your mind will tell you you have no choice (you can't; you must).But that is the same mental spider that got you into this entangled place to begin with

- S C. Foundation ProfessorDepartment of Psychology /298University of NevadaReno, NV 89557-0062"Love isn't everything, it's the only thing"

It's OK to share how you're feeling here. I'm so sorry it's so hard for you right now. Just know I'm thinking of you - and hang in there! Things WILL get better; that much I know from personal experience when I felt the same way you do. Please don't give up. Try to move your hands and feet just a little bit today, if you can. Otherwise, chalk it up to a "sit on your hands" day and be OK with that. It is OK to feel like this!

Helena To: "ACT for the Public" <ACT_for_the_Public >

Sent: Monday, July 9, 2012 1:32:37 PMSubject: Meditation

Today has been hard. Lots of thoughts, and I can't seem to listen in. I have meditated twice. I get angry, since these feelings are the same as any other time I have been depressed. I get extremely needy, confused and insecure. Surfing the net for info, even though I know it makes no difference.

I feel very restless and can't pay attention. I just want to feel like my emotional feet are touching the ground. I have had one anxiety attack in my life, and I would maybe prefer it to this. This is truly the dull pain of a life not lived.

I know that I am maybe using this group in the wrong way when I post this, and I am sorry for that. I get a very strong urge to talk.

It is awful when I am never sure of anything. I "don't know" if I did meditation right. I "don't know" what I should eat. I "don't know" who I am/what I should do/what I should say. I feel like I just have this one need to feel "safe". I panic over it and I can't concentrate on something else. I say I want to turn it around, but I don't believe myself.

Turning it around would be trying to do something else with it. The "needy thing" (calling people etc) has always led to feeling worse. Why do I think it works when it doesn't?

This is just self-pity. I just want for someone to know that I am in pain, I guess. I'm sorry. Yeah.

HÃ¥kon

[Guest guest]

Terry,Back atcha with the interesting convo! Thanks for taking the time.

Regarding my weekend, you captured my own thoughts well. It took me only a few such incidents of suffering to believe there had to be a better way-such times seem intolerable!-but many 'weekends' of practice to become adept at the solution. " Spinning like crazy " is an awesome description of how I once felt. Slowly, however, with practice, I have slowed the ride (or adjusted to the speed?) until I am now OK with my mind's clanging klaxons. Monday is not this moment and whatever a Monday Moment may bring, it is not worth giving up this moment for.

I love your rules journey! So human, to look for a map through the dark forest! A right way to ensure safety and success, a True and Noble Guiding Knight to vanquish chaos dragons and lead us back to the castle. If my mind is like a survival computer, spinning up scenarios and presenting stories of possible pitfalls, surely it must thrive on the concept of a clear path forward with clear, absolute rules?

I once, long ago (how long is a secret because I live in a youth-worshiping culture!) was asked to write a short essay related to the concept of rules. I am linking it here because it shows just how long we have shared this line of thought. Much has changed since then, of course, but the fundamental concept, that rules are simply concepts we buy into, remains an often-visited reminder for me....

http://www.gamepuzzles.com/tlog/tlog15.htmDOn Saturday, July 14, 2012, Theresa Linder wrote:

 Hey Darrell,

Thanks for the interesting conversation.  I see, so sounds like you're using the term chaos for unpredictable and/or unwanted events that happen in life.Yes, accepting this as so is a huge part of this work. 

 Oh, okay..yeah unpredictable stuff happens all the time if that's what you mean by chaos. And yes, there is link for me too between feeling threatened and not being able to accept whatever swirls my way.

The other part here I was emphasizing with Steve's comments is noticing my suffering with respect to forming valued choices in the moment--As what would you do right now-- " just cuz " ? For self-fidelity. I don't think he can say that too often. I'm always a bit taken aback by this. 

The notion that I make my own rules (values in the moment) based on what my heart and gut and experience tells me is still something that my mind resists. Usually as in outside myself. Ones that you/they wrote. Pliance stuff.  " Other directed " as they say (vs. inner-directed). Looking for reassurance I picked the right value and the right goal.  I have a really hard time with choosing and then letting go. I will spend hours in a restaurant looking over the menu. Now some of that is really enjoyable, entertaining my options. 

But after I've chosen? Well..looking and noticing that my mind will tend to say: Hmm...wonder if that was the right one? Now I see someone has an interesting looking dish..oh that looks good..I should have ordered that! Picked the wrong one again! Shoot.  But I am catching myself more with this sort of thing these days. 

Looking to be a good girl, looking for the right way, what I should do, shouldn't do. Make myself small, diminish myself in the process.Guessing mostly it's about an unconscious desire to stay safe.  So back to safety stuff.

Even though no real danger for the most part to begin with. And...to the extent I do this I tend to invent danger or distraction or drama that wasn't there. An example: I complained to about the fused dogma I sometimes encounter in AA meetings. Lots of judging and comparing and lecturing about doing it right.

This is the stuff that feeds right into my rule book hunt.  So I have to be careful with holding it all very lightly, but also remembering why the hell I am even there, and to keepnoticing what is useful there and what isn't. And to trust that. Just cuz. 

Poor , he hears me whine a lot. He reminds me to pick and choose. " It's not like they're in charge anyway " .Isn't it? My mind sure believes so.  Someone is in charge here, right? (Oh, that would be me!). And someone else mentioned there are no rules in AA. But lots of folks acting and talking like there sure are, like there is a formula for how to do the program right, better, best. But after you start talking to enough people, you will see there is no one way for sure. There are lots and lots of ways.  But folks do like to language it up as a certain way.  And if you don't do it this way exactly, you lose big. You might relapse, die...etc. 

I had a therapist once who told me just in passing that truly, I didn't have to do anything they in AA tell me to do. I couldn't believe my ears. I was shocked. I told her how shocked I was at learning this. And she in turn couldn't believe that her comment made that much of a difference for me! Unfortunately, we didn't get to work around this suffering but I am now working with someone else around this. 

So, that's how bad I've got this looking for a rule book. So, if a miracle could happen and I could really get there was no rule book out there, what might my life look like?Hmmm!terry

*BTW, I just read your other post here about your work scenario where they told you Friday come talk with management first thing Monday. Wow, talk about an opportunity to practice accepting whatever swirls your way! I'd probably be spinning like crazy with such news.  And what a waste of a weekend it would be for me..as in " Lost Weekend " .  Hang in there..maybe it will be something benign. Maybe not. But what can you do about it in your head? Meanwhile you have a weekend here. Hope it's enjoyable. Life is so damn short.

-- Darrell G King, RN, CASAC-TRochester, NY, UShttp://darrellking.comDarrellGKing@...