Re: Character assasination

[Guest guest]

Its exactly what you said: SURVIVAL. The character assassination is

horrible and is the part that bothers me the most. My MIL annihilates

my husband and I behind our backs. Here's the silver lining though:

I think deep down most people know. Its animal instinct to try and

rescue someone who is crying and most of the BPs do a brilliant job

working the victim angle and weeping about how awful YOU are how they

" just don't understand what they have done to deserve this. "

Pull out of the situation though, and pretend you don't know your

mother and you are listening to her go on about how aweful and hurtful

her child is. Do you believe her? What's your main objective? If

your like most, you want to put a bandaid on it. People around your

mother quickly gather that the quick fix would be for you to apologize

(for something you didn't do). It doesn't matter to them whether or

not her accusations are true. They are just trying to keep the peace.

They don't have near the investment in this woman that you do.

Plus, I think sometimes at church people get the idea of emulating

Christ and being a doormat confused.

Bottom line: people that know you will know she is lying. Most

likely, even people that don't know you will know she is lying.

However, most people will not call someone out on a lie - its just

easier to sympathize (put the bandaid on it).

Try not to worry about it, bc it will never change.

>

> Hello Everyone,

> We've had some excellent discussions about hair pulling and weird

gifts and

> I guess I'm ready to talk about a deeper level of hurt. My mother

would talk

> to her friends, my relatives, my teachers and my church leaders

about how

> horrible I was and how I hurt her. I don't see how they could have

believed

> her because my mom wasn't a good actress, didn't have a polished

image and

> really just seemed like a big fat phony. In the books they refer to

this as

> BPD character assasination. A huge part of my decision to go NC with my

> mother was the fact that she told such horrible lies about me.

>

> It was the worst during and after puberty, when a girl needs her

mother the

> most. My mom went to church every week and would always be several hours

> late getting home. What she did is, during the service, and for as

long as

> she could afterwards,she would hold court in the lobby. My mother didn't

> believe in the church (Mormon, or Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day

> Saints), but members of this church are expected to " fellowship "

each other,

> or try to get people who are drifting away back into the church.

>

> Anyway, my mom would go to church specifically, I believed, because she

> could hold court their, using the women's desire to bring her into the

> church as a full believer to hold their attention. I overheard some

of the

> stories she told about me and they were absolutely horrible. The worst

> moment of my life was when one of these women came up to me, when I was

> about 14 and very emotionally fragile because of my horrible mother,

and she

> said, " Your mother is a good woman. You need to treat her better. "

>

> Anyway, the pain of all of this has kept me away from my home town for 5

> years. I haven't seen any of my extended family or my dad's friends who

> helped raise me because I know she tells them lies and I just can't

face the

> curious, questioning looks. I know they at least partly believe her

based on

> what they say and the questions they ask me. I can't believe anyone

would

> believe her phony BS, I mean, she isn't a good liar or actress at all.

>

> I'd love to hear similar stories and how you all survived the character

> assassination.

> XOXO, Girlscout

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you, those are very helpful thoughts. What do you do when someone asks

you about it? What do you say?

>

> Its exactly what you said: SURVIVAL. The character assassination is

> horrible and is the part that bothers me the most. My MIL annihilates

> my husband and I behind our backs. Here's the silver lining though:

> I think deep down most people know. Its animal instinct to try and

> rescue someone who is crying and most of the BPs do a brilliant job

> working the victim angle and weeping about how awful YOU are how they

> " just don't understand what they have done to deserve this. "

>

> Pull out of the situation though, and pretend you don't know your

> mother and you are listening to her go on about how aweful and hurtful

> her child is. Do you believe her? What's your main objective? If

> your like most, you want to put a bandaid on it. People around your

> mother quickly gather that the quick fix would be for you to apologize

> (for something you didn't do). It doesn't matter to them whether or

> not her accusations are true. They are just trying to keep the peace.

> They don't have near the investment in this woman that you do.

>

> Plus, I think sometimes at church people get the idea of emulating

> Christ and being a doormat confused.

>

> Bottom line: people that know you will know she is lying. Most

> likely, even people that don't know you will know she is lying.

> However, most people will not call someone out on a lie - its just

> easier to sympathize (put the bandaid on it).

>

> Try not to worry about it, bc it will never change.

>

>

> >

> > Hello Everyone,

> > We've had some excellent discussions about hair pulling and weird

> gifts and

> > I guess I'm ready to talk about a deeper level of hurt. My mother

> would talk

> > to her friends, my relatives, my teachers and my church leaders

> about how

> > horrible I was and how I hurt her. I don't see how they could have

> believed

> > her because my mom wasn't a good actress, didn't have a polished

> image and

> > really just seemed like a big fat phony. In the books they refer to

> this as

> > BPD character assasination. A huge part of my decision to go NC with my

> > mother was the fact that she told such horrible lies about me.

> >

> > It was the worst during and after puberty, when a girl needs her

> mother the

> > most. My mom went to church every week and would always be several hours

> > late getting home. What she did is, during the service, and for as

> long as

> > she could afterwards,she would hold court in the lobby. My mother didn't

> > believe in the church (Mormon, or Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day

> > Saints), but members of this church are expected to " fellowship "

> each other,

> > or try to get people who are drifting away back into the church.

> >

> > Anyway, my mom would go to church specifically, I believed, because she

> > could hold court their, using the women's desire to bring her into the

> > church as a full believer to hold their attention. I overheard some

> of the

> > stories she told about me and they were absolutely horrible. The worst

> > moment of my life was when one of these women came up to me, when I was

> > about 14 and very emotionally fragile because of my horrible mother,

> and she

> > said, " Your mother is a good woman. You need to treat her better. "

> >

> > Anyway, the pain of all of this has kept me away from my home town for 5

> > years. I haven't seen any of my extended family or my dad's friends who

> > helped raise me because I know she tells them lies and I just can't

> face the

> > curious, questioning looks. I know they at least partly believe her

> based on

> > what they say and the questions they ask me. I can't believe anyone

> would

> > believe her phony BS, I mean, she isn't a good liar or actress at all.

> >

> > I'd love to hear similar stories and how you all survived the character

> > assassination.

> > XOXO, Girlscout

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Whenever I would talk to my dad about my mom's lies, he would shrug and say,

" You know your mother and her poetic license. "

In some ways that helped because he was validating that it wasn't true but

he didn't validate how hurtful it was.

>

> Thank you, those are very helpful thoughts. What do you do when someone

> asks you about it? What do you say?

>

>

> >

> > Its exactly what you said: SURVIVAL. The character assassination is

> > horrible and is the part that bothers me the most. My MIL annihilates

> > my husband and I behind our backs. Here's the silver lining though:

> > I think deep down most people know. Its animal instinct to try and

> > rescue someone who is crying and most of the BPs do a brilliant job

> > working the victim angle and weeping about how awful YOU are how they

> > " just don't understand what they have done to deserve this. "

> >

> > Pull out of the situation though, and pretend you don't know your

> > mother and you are listening to her go on about how aweful and hurtful

> > her child is. Do you believe her? What's your main objective? If

> > your like most, you want to put a bandaid on it. People around your

> > mother quickly gather that the quick fix would be for you to apologize

> > (for something you didn't do). It doesn't matter to them whether or

> > not her accusations are true. They are just trying to keep the peace.

> > They don't have near the investment in this woman that you do.

> >

> > Plus, I think sometimes at church people get the idea of emulating

> > Christ and being a doormat confused.

> >

> > Bottom line: people that know you will know she is lying. Most

> > likely, even people that don't know you will know she is lying.

> > However, most people will not call someone out on a lie - its just

> > easier to sympathize (put the bandaid on it).

> >

> > Try not to worry about it, bc it will never change.

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Hello Everyone,

> > > We've had some excellent discussions about hair pulling and weird

> > gifts and

> > > I guess I'm ready to talk about a deeper level of hurt. My mother

> > would talk

> > > to her friends, my relatives, my teachers and my church leaders

> > about how

> > > horrible I was and how I hurt her. I don't see how they could have

> > believed

> > > her because my mom wasn't a good actress, didn't have a polished

> > image and

> > > really just seemed like a big fat phony. In the books they refer to

> > this as

> > > BPD character assasination. A huge part of my decision to go NC with

> > my

> > > mother was the fact that she told such horrible lies about me.

> > >

> > > It was the worst during and after puberty, when a girl needs her

> > mother the

> > > most. My mom went to church every week and would always be several

> > hours

> > > late getting home. What she did is, during the service, and for as

> > long as

> > > she could afterwards,she would hold court in the lobby. My mother

> > didn't

> > > believe in the church (Mormon, or Church of Jesus Christ and Latter

> > Day

> > > Saints), but members of this church are expected to " fellowship "

> > each other,

> > > or try to get people who are drifting away back into the church.

> > >

> > > Anyway, my mom would go to church specifically, I believed, because

> > she

> > > could hold court their, using the women's desire to bring her into the

> > > church as a full believer to hold their attention. I overheard some

> > of the

> > > stories she told about me and they were absolutely horrible. The worst

> > > moment of my life was when one of these women came up to me, when I

> > was

> > > about 14 and very emotionally fragile because of my horrible mother,

> > and she

> > > said, " Your mother is a good woman. You need to treat her better. "

> > >

> > > Anyway, the pain of all of this has kept me away from my home town for

> > 5

> > > years. I haven't seen any of my extended family or my dad's friends

> > who

> > > helped raise me because I know she tells them lies and I just can't

> > face the

> > > curious, questioning looks. I know they at least partly believe her

> > based on

> > > what they say and the questions they ask me. I can't believe anyone

> > would

> > > believe her phony BS, I mean, she isn't a good liar or actress at all.

> > >

> > > I'd love to hear similar stories and how you all survived the

> > character

> > > assassination.

> > > XOXO, Girlscout

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

That's a good question. It depends who I am talking to as to how much I

disclose. I always preface with, " I am not going to give you my opinion, I am

just going to give you the facts. This is a no win situation - there are no

sides to be picked, bc both sides lose. " For me, that kind of sets the stage

for the conversation. Be very careful talking to people who do not know her

well. Also, make sure everything you say is completely honest and something

that you would say to her face (bc there is a good chance it will get back to

her).

If anyone starts telling you how it is your fault and you need to " respect " your

mother or any of that bull, I would assertively tell them they have not, nor

will they ever stand in your shoes. While you are willing to give them your

" side " or the story, and are willing to hear what they have to say too, I would

calmly explain that you have weighed your options and thought this through

carefully and you have decided, for you (NOT for your mother), that NC is the

best move FOR YOU. Tell them you understand that your mother is hurting and

that you are hurting too. You have to mitigate your own pain before you can do

anything about hers. For the time being, your pain subsides from being away

from her. PERIOD. This is where they should stop pushing. Be polite, but

assertive. Sometimes the peopel asking you questions come masked in compassion,

but they are truly a soldier of your mothers.

This is why all conversations where I talk to someone about what has happened

and why my husband and I are NC, begin with, " I am not going to give you my

opinion, I am just going to give you thefacts. This is a no win situation -

there are no sides to be picked,bc both sides lose. " You do not know if you are

talking to someone you can trust or not. Also, that statement makes it

perfectly clear that this is not a power play (at least on your side). The most

important thing you can get across to anyone, I think, is that everyone loses in

these situations. There's no winning, no resolution, and NC is simply your way

of moving on with your life.

Re: Re: Character assasination

Thank you, those are very helpful thoughts. What do you do

when someone asks

you about it? What do you say?

>

> Its exactly what you said: SURVIVAL. The character assassination is

> horrible and is the part that bothers me the most. My MIL annihilates

> my husband and I behind our backs. Here's the silver lining though:

> I think deep down most people know. Its animal instinct to try and

> rescue someone who is crying and most of the BPs do a brilliant job

> working the victim angle and weeping about how awful YOU are how they

> " just don't understand what they have done to deserve this. "

>

> Pull out of the situation though, and pretend you don't know your

> mother and you are listening to her go on about how aweful and hurtful

> her child is. Do you believe her? What's your main objective? If

> your like most, you want to put a bandaid on it. People around your

> mother quickly gather that the quick fix would be for you to apologize

> (for something you didn't do). It doesn't matter to them whether or

> not her accusations are true. They are just trying to keep the peace.

> They don't have near the investment in this woman that you do.

>

> Plus, I think sometimes at church people get the idea of emulating

> Christ and being a doormat confused.

>

> Bottom line: people that know you will know she is lying. Most

> likely, even people that don't know you will know she is lying.

> However, most people will not call someone out on a lie - its just

> easier to sympathize (put the bandaid on it).

>

> Try not to worry about it, bc it will never change.

>

>

> >

> > Hello Everyone,

> > We've had some excellent discussions about hair pulling and weird

> gifts and

> > I guess I'm ready to talk about a deeper level of hurt. My mother

> would talk

> > to her friends, my relatives, my teachers and my church leaders

> about how

> > horrible I was and how I hurt her. I don't see how they could have

> believed

> > her because my mom wasn't a good actress, didn't have a polished

> image and

> > really just seemed like a big fat phony. In the books they refer to

> this as

> > BPD character assasination. A huge part of my decision to go NC with my

> > mother was the fact that she told such horrible lies about me.

> >

> > It was the worst during and after puberty, when a girl needs her

> mother the

> > most. My mom went to church every week and would always be several hours

> > late getting home. What she did is, during the service, and for as

> long as

> > she could afterwards,she would hold court in the lobby. My mother didn't

> > believe in the church (Mormon, or Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day

> > Saints), but members of this church are expected to " fellowship "

> each other,

> > or try to get people who are drifting away back into the church.

> >

> > Anyway, my mom would go to church specifically, I believed, because she

> > could hold court their, using the women's desire to bring her into the

> > church as a full believer to hold their attention. I overheard some

> of the

> > stories she told about me and they were absolutely horrible. The worst

> > moment of my life was when one of these women came up to me, when I was

> > about 14 and very emotionally fragile because of my horrible mother,

> and she

> > said, " Your mother is a good woman. You need to treat her better. "

> >

> > Anyway, the pain of all of this has kept me away from my home town for 5

> > years. I haven't seen any of my extended family or my dad's friends who

> > helped raise me because I know she tells them lies and I just can't

> face the

> > curious, questioning looks. I know they at least partly believe her

> based on

> > what they say and the questions they ask me. I can't believe anyone

> would

> > believe her phony BS, I mean, she isn't a good liar or actress at all.

> >

> > I'd love to hear similar stories and how you all survived the character

> > assassination.

> > XOXO, Girlscout

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

NC has been the only solution to my survival. Even when I was LC with

nada, she could drop me to my knees and I'd be in tears with one

comment like 'Well so-and-so just cannot believe the things you've done

to me and how you've treated me over the years.' She'd always take

great pains to choose a name of someone I had cared about or respected

and blather on and on about a lengthy discussion of which my

mistreatment of her was the topic of choice.

Bull on her,...I'm done. I just don't care anymore what she says to

anyone. She's burned all her bridges with me and I've let her go.

There's survival according to Mercy.

Hugs to you, GirlScout!

___________________________________________

GirlScout wrote:

I'd love to hear similar stories and how you all survived the

character

assassination.

XOXO, Girlscout

[Guest guest]

I remember an old saying and I am sure I will butcher it, but here goes. You

cannot control how other people will perceive you, only how you present

yourself. What your mother did was inexcusable. I can relate to the whole

adolescent thing. My mother went through menopause the same time I went through

puberty and it was a living nightmare on top of the personality problems.. I

still have scars from it. I remember I had just started a relationship with a

young man and I was telling my mom how I felt and how he made me feel. I can

remember her eyes going very cold and she looked straight at me and said out of

the blue, " You know you are not very pretty. " Then she got up and walked away

leaving me speechless. In many respects I have never recovered from that

statement. I am still single, over weight and have a horrible self image and I

can trace it back to that moment. I don't like that it has affected me so deeply

and I am ashamed that I have let it. But I

never got any information to the contrary, not even from my father when he was

alive. All I got from him was how much I needed to lose weight. I am still

working to dig out from under that and to take back my self esteem. I am trying

to lose weight and have plans to join a matchmaking club. I won't live with that

anymore. One thearpist that I saw, and this was the only insight I got out of

her, was that my being overweight was the biggest FU I could give my family for

the way that they treated me. In a way it has been my suit of armor to keep

people away from me. But being self destructive is no way to live and I am tired

of lugging around, literally 50 lbs + of baggage.

Oddly enough my son has been a big part of my recovery, deciding to go against

the wishes of my family and have him on my own has literally saved my life. I

see me now through his eyes. And to him his Mommy is very pretty and very

huggable.

My mom has told people things about me, mostly how unreasonable I am and how I

blow things out of proportion. Her favorite statement is " You know how she

gets. " Wink wink, nod nod. Most people when they meet me realize pretty soon

that I am anything but unreasonable.

When you feel strong enough, go back to your home town and meet with your family

and friends. Let them get to know you and don't let your mom be your really bad

PR agent. Reclaim those relationships on your own terms. She has no right to

tear you down in front of others. But I suspect that your family and friends

realize something is off with your mom anyway. Most people don't believe that

anyone is " that bad " based on the tales one person tells. If they don't have

sense enough to see you as you are when you are there in person, then they

aren't worth the trouble to begin with. The questioning you get is because they

CAN'T believe everything that your mom says about you and are looking to

determine the truth for themselves. If they really believed it hook, line and

sinker they wouldn't even bother to ask any questions.

From what I have read and observed isolation is part of the game played by the

BPD. If they separate you from peers and family they can program you better.

They tear you down by cutting off anyone who contradicts what they are saying

about you and to you, from you. If you have ever watched a pack of wolves hunt

prey you have a good analogy of what is happening to you. Cut the prey from the

herd, bring it down and eat it. You need the sane members of your family, don't

give up on them.

I don't know if this happens to you. But one of the things I struggle with is

surrounding my self with people who seem to mirror my family. It was one of the

conundrums I have been dealing with lately. If everyone saw me the same way how

could I argue with the assessments of my family? Writing about how my brother

married two clearly BPD women, has brought up a thought. Am I gravitating

towards people who reinforce the negative aspects of my self so that I cannot

climb out of this pit and re-define my relationships? Many of the people I once

considered close friends, in hindsight were either BPD or extremely selfish.

Those that weren't, I lost track of or drifted away because I was mistrustful of

honest friendships and COULDN'T SEEM TO BOND WITH THEM because their feelings

for me were literally alien. What was wrong with them if they couldn't see what

a screw up I was? They didn't reinforce my negative self image, therefore they

had to go. Meanwhile

those who did reinforce my self image were really not worth keeping. Now that

is screwed up! I think if you can recognize these patterns, you can work to over

come them.

It is amazing to me how we can be related to people by blood who we would never

associate with by choice. Try thinking of it this way in order to have your

character assasinated, you have to have character to begin with. These have been

my experiences and I hope I have helped in some small measure. I know it helped

me to relate them.

Thanks

Be strong. Take care.

Character assasination

Hello Everyone,

We've had some excellent discussions about hair pulling and weird gifts and

I guess I'm ready to talk about a deeper level of hurt. My mother would talk

to her friends, my relatives, my teachers and my church leaders about how

horrible I was and how I hurt her. I don't see how they could have believed

her because my mom wasn't a good actress, didn't have a polished image and

really just seemed like a big fat phony. In the books they refer to this as

BPD character assasination. A huge part of my decision to go NC with my

mother was the fact that she told such horrible lies about me.

It was the worst during and after puberty, when a girl needs her mother the

most. My mom went to church every week and would always be several hours

late getting home. What she did is, during the service, and for as long as

she could afterwards,she would hold court in the lobby. My mother didn't

believe in the church (Mormon, or Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day

Saints), but members of this church are expected to " fellowship " each other,

or try to get people who are drifting away back into the church.

Anyway, my mom would go to church specifically, I believed, because she

could hold court their, using the women's desire to bring her into the

church as a full believer to hold their attention. I overheard some of the

stories she told about me and they were absolutely horrible. The worst

moment of my life was when one of these women came up to me, when I was

about 14 and very emotionally fragile because of my horrible mother, and she

said, " Your mother is a good woman. You need to treat her better. "

Anyway, the pain of all of this has kept me away from my home town for 5

years. I haven't seen any of my extended family or my dad's friends who

helped raise me because I know she tells them lies and I just can't face the

curious, questioning looks. I know they at least partly believe her based on

what they say and the questions they ask me. I can't believe anyone would

believe her phony BS, I mean, she isn't a good liar or actress at all.

I'd love to hear similar stories and how you all survived the character

assassination.

XOXO, Girlscout

[Guest guest]

Spot on, .

Re: Re: Character assasination

Thank you, those are very helpful thoughts. What do you do

when someone asks

you about it? What do you say?

>

> Its exactly what you said: SURVIVAL. The character assassination is

> horrible and is the part that bothers me the most. My MIL annihilates

> my husband and I behind our backs. Here's the silver lining though:

> I think deep down most people know. Its animal instinct to try and

> rescue someone who is crying and most of the BPs do a brilliant job

> working the victim angle and weeping about how awful YOU are how they

> " just don't understand what they have done to deserve this. "

>

> Pull out of the situation though, and pretend you don't know your

> mother and you are listening to her go on about how aweful and hurtful

> her child is. Do you believe her? What's your main objective? If

> your like most, you want to put a bandaid on it. People around your

> mother quickly gather that the quick fix would be for you to apologize

> (for something you didn't do). It doesn't matter to them whether or

> not her accusations are true. They are just trying to keep the peace.

> They don't have near the investment in this woman that you do.

>

> Plus, I think sometimes at church people get the idea of emulating

> Christ and being a doormat confused.

>

> Bottom line: people that know you will know she is lying. Most

> likely, even people that don't know you will know she is lying.

> However, most people will not call someone out on a lie - its just

> easier to sympathize (put the bandaid on it).

>

> Try not to worry about it, bc it will never change.

>

>

> >

> > Hello Everyone,

> > We've had some excellent discussions about hair pulling and weird

> gifts and

> > I guess I'm ready to talk about a deeper level of hurt.. My mother

> would talk

> > to her friends, my relatives, my teachers and my church leaders

> about how

> > horrible I was and how I hurt her.. I don't see how they could have

> believed

> > her because my mom wasn't a good actress, didn't have a polished

> image and

> > really just seemed like a big fat phony. In the books they refer to

> this as

> > BPD character assasination. A huge part of my decision to go NC with my

> > mother was the fact that she told such horrible lies about me.

> >

> > It was the worst during and after puberty, when a girl needs her

> mother the

> > most. My mom went to church every week and would always be several hours

> > late getting home. What she did is, during the service, and for as

> long as

> > she could afterwards,she would hold court in the lobby. My mother didn't

> > believe in the church (Mormon, or Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day

> > Saints), but members of this church are expected to " fellowship "

> each other,

> > or try to get people who are drifting away back into the church.

> >

> > Anyway, my mom would go to church specifically, I believed, because she

> > could hold court their, using the women's desire to bring her into the

> > church as a full believer to hold their attention. I overheard some

> of the

> > stories she told about me and they were absolutely horrible. The worst

> > moment of my life was when one of these women came up to me, when I was

> > about 14 and very emotionally fragile because of my horrible mother,

> and she

> > said, " Your mother is a good woman. You need to treat her better. "

> >

> > Anyway, the pain of all of this has kept me away from my home town for 5

> > years. I haven't seen any of my extended family or my dad's friends who

> > helped raise me because I know she tells them lies and I just can't

> face the

> > curious, questioning looks. I know they at least partly believe her

> based on

> > what they say and the questions they ask me. I can't believe anyone

> would

> > believe her phony BS, I mean, she isn't a good liar or actress at all.

> >

> > I'd love to hear similar stories and how you all survived the character

> > assassination.

> > XOXO, Girlscout

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Ninera,

Anyone who donates bone marrow is an incredible person. My cousin had to have a

bone marrow transplant for leukemia and it saved her life. We never got to thank

her donor, so let me thank you. I know what that procedure entails and it is not

like giving blood. You go, girl. My cousin is coming up on her 5th year in

remission.

I think we all need to let people make up their own minds about us. It is like

taking compliments. What bigger compliment is there than having someone want to

be your friend? I am beginning to see that all the lies are not really about us,

but about the BPD. It is a way to gain control in a life that must seem very out

of control.. Your post has been a big help. Thanks.

Re: Character assasination

Oh, Girlscout... this is an issue very very near and dear to my fragile ego. For

me, it has been one of the most devastating things my mother has continually

done...and continues to do. It is precisely why I went nc with her 2 1/2 months

ago. She assassinates my character behind my back...and to my face. It's amazing

to find out I'm not the deceitful, manipulative, hypersensitive, self-centered,

hedonistic brat that she's always told me I am. My therapist about choked, I

think, when I was explaining how my mother has always made a point of telling me

that some therapist told her...when I was TEN...that I was hedonistic.. .and

that this was often used as justification for the other things she did to me. My

therapist was basically stunned and explained how by her definition I'm as far

from a hedonist as it gets!

Some of the smear campaign was very subtle...half truths, you know? She would

goad me and torment me and ridicule me into tears or a tantrum...and then call

everyone and tell them what histrionics I was giving her and how awful it was

and that she had no idea what I was pitching a hissy fit about this time...all

as if she had been sitting there innocently and I just blew up for no reason.

She'd not even be accurate about what I'd said...I remember listening to her

tell these stories and getting even more upset. I was a child, I had no defense,

you know? My father traveled a good bit for his work...so he heard rather than

witnessed much of this. To this day he still has trouble believing I'm anything

other than what she led him to believe all those years. I mean, there she would

be...harassing me about my homework and trying to micromanage it (when I hadn't

asked for help) or, if I asked for help she would get mean and tell me how lazy

and stupid I

was...or how

resistant to help I was...and keep going until I was in tears and refused to

touch the homework. Then the story would be " I try so hard to motivate and

encourage her, but she just throws a tantrum and refuses to do any schoolwork at

all. I don't know what to do with her... "

Some of it has been pretty out there, though...bald face lies that she seems to

actually believe. I think I've mentioned some of them before. For instance...she

spent a good number of my college years convinced that I was hiding a pregnancy

from her. She would harass my roommate about it at every opportunity (but it was

supposed to be a secret) and tell her friends how hurt she was, that she just

KNEW I was pregnant. I wasn't. I never have been. But you can't convince her of

that. In October of 2000, I was a bone marrow/stem cell donor through the

National Marrow Donor Program. My mother got angry that I had other people going

with me and not her (I dunno, ma...you haven't spoken to me in almost 10 months

until you heard about this and now all of a sudden you want to be there for me?

No thank you.) I didn't want her to go...I knew she wouldn't be supportive and

that for her it was all about telling people she was involved in it. She decided

that I must be

lying....so that Sunday she accosts me and one of my friends (who had gone with

me) and accused us...in front of the altar in a Catholic Church...of being

liars. She then proceeded to tell us, rather loudly, that she knew what I'd

really done was go to have an abortion. Uh...right. I'm going to drive 3 hours

away to have an abortion when I already live in a major metropolitan area with

plenty of options for that around? And it's just not a choice that *I* would

make, anyway. But, she was convinced. She not only continued to confront that

friend of mine for several years to " just tell the truth " ...she also lamented to

various people in our parish about my " big lie. " I ended up donating 2 more

times for the same recipient... I'm sure she thinks those were also abortions.

Heck, I even MET my recipient... and it was on the front page of her

metropolitan paper...and my mother still will sometimes forget that she made up

the abortion thing.

Another fun one was finding out that several of my distant relatives thought I

had spent almost two years in drug rehab. Now, I'll admit to being a party

drinker during my college years...a LONG TIME AGO...but drugs have never been my

thing. I leave that to my brother. Those two years? When I was away and they

thought I was in rehab? I was doing mission work in a third world orphanage.

Some drug rehab, right?

and I could go on. What I finally realized...the last time I saw her...was that

no matter what I do or say she is going to spin it so that she looks like a

victim and I look like a bad person. It KILLS me to know that I have relatives

who think I'm who she's led them to believe I am.. Kills me. Because I can't

fight it, you know? I have had several who have approached me in the last few

years to apologize, though...they' ve been talking amongst themselves apparently

and my mother's brother is one of my biggest champions. He told me, soon after I

returned from mission, " I've been telling people that they need to get to know

you on their own terms, away from other people. I tell them that they will learn

what I've learned, that you are not the person we've been led to believe you

are. You are a person of great depth, intelligence, compassion, and integrity

and it would be their loss to not get to know you. " I'm sure my mother would

completely lose it if she

knew

about that conversation, though. It would be spun into what a gossip I am and

how I bad mouth her all the time! Can't win...so I'm not even going to try.

My therapist... God bless this woman and her neverending patience with me and my

stubbornness. ..keeps reminding me that when I meet people (even people who know

my mother and her distortions) that I need to give them some credit for having

their own minds. And, that anyone who meets me in real life is going to see who

I am, weigh it against what she says, and then realize the truth and like me for

it. I'm still working on believing I'm likeable, but I'm getting there.

Ninera

Girlscout Cowboy <girlscout.cowboy@ gmail.com> wrote:

Hello Everyone,

We've had some excellent discussions about hair pulling and weird gifts and

I guess I'm ready to talk about a deeper level of hurt. My mother would talk

to her friends, my relatives, my teachers and my church leaders about how

horrible I was and how I hurt her. I don't see how they could have believed

her because my mom wasn't a good actress, didn't have a polished image and

really just seemed like a big fat phony. In the books they refer to this as

BPD character assasination. A huge part of my decision to go NC with my

mother was the fact that she told such horrible lies about me.

It was the worst during and after puberty, when a girl needs her mother the

most. My mom went to church every week and would always be several hours

late getting home. What she did is, during the service, and for as long as

she could afterwards,she would hold court in the lobby. My mother didn't

believe in the church (Mormon, or Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day

Saints), but members of this church are expected to " fellowship " each other,

or try to get people who are drifting away back into the church.

Anyway, my mom would go to church specifically, I believed, because she

could hold court their, using the women's desire to bring her into the

church as a full believer to hold their attention. I overheard some of the

stories she told about me and they were absolutely horrible. The worst

moment of my life was when one of these women came up to me, when I was

about 14 and very emotionally fragile because of my horrible mother, and she

said, " Your mother is a good woman. You need to treat her better. "

Anyway, the pain of all of this has kept me away from my home town for 5

years. I haven't seen any of my extended family or my dad's friends who

helped raise me because I know she tells them lies and I just can't face the

curious, questioning looks. I know they at least partly believe her based on

what they say and the questions they ask me. I can't believe anyone would

believe her phony BS, I mean, she isn't a good liar or actress at all.

I'd love to hear similar stories and how you all survived the character

assassination.

XOXO, Girlscout

[Guest guest]

this is another excellent topic! I have enjoyed reading these posts

so much. There are so many amazing people on here, for the first

time in my life there is an upside to being treated like the devil

incarnate by my family, because I get to fit in here with such

amazing folks. It's so hard to read these posts and about what

people have achieved and realize that they were defamed like I was

and am; when it's happening to someone else it seems so wrong, it's

easier for me to see how wrong it is when it happens to me too.

I have been watching Celebrity Rehab on VH1 which is really a great

show and I have huge respect for the Dr. Drew on there, but anyway,

I love , the tech's reactions to things, especially when the

people will say something and her eyes get wide and she

goes 'Really? Oh myyyyy.' I think that's the attitude you have to

have...she does this when the addicts on there are full of b.s. and

are trying to con her or whining or trying to wheedle their way out

of something; the point is she knows at that moment she is talking

to disease, she doesn't get invested and react emotionally. I went

through a negative experience when I made some 'online' friends who

ended up being dishonest and vindictive, and I tried to defend

myself against some accusations. Big mistake. If you look at the

people that you know as a series of concentric circles, with their

level of acquaintance deepening the further toward the center you

get, the people farthest out are going to judge you, and rumors

about you, by how you act. What I found out in this situation with

those non-friends was that even though it's the most natural thing

in the word to have a strong reaction when one is lied about, for

some reason it's the thing that people who are trying to decide who

or what to believe don't react well too. I think an air of detached

indifference is the best reaction to have, you know, 'duly noted'

or whatever. It also seems if you try to convince people of your

side (those people on the edge of the circle) that doesn't work well

either. It has taken me half a lifetime to learn this. I appreciate

the topic so much because my dad is the 'gatekeeper' in my family as

far as defaming me and competing with me to make sure no one gets

close to me. He tells horrible lies about me behind my back, and my

sister enables this, though probably not so much any more. I

actually let it get to me to the point where some of it became true

when I was young and living in their house because I was between a

rock and a hard place, no matter what I did I was criticized and

slandered so I did nothing, I just got depressed. I am going though

that once again with them over the cleaning. But anyway, you know, I

think a detached reaction is the best when this stuff gets back to

you, like when someone says something to you that your mom has said,

just, " really? She said that? Well, bless her heart " or even " God

bless her that she feels the need to say such things, could you pray

for her " (if you are religious) or just " oh myyyyyyy " like

says. Pretty soon when you are unmoved and people see you are

uninvested they will 'get it'.

On the other hand, another hard lesson I learned going through this

thing with the 'friends' this past year, is that people attract to

them others like them, or, as a friend of mine puts it " you attract

what you are " and there are many bpd/npd types running around out

there, keeping each other good and sick and feeding off of each

other. There isn't anything you can do with the sick types who want

to believe your mom and commiserate with her, and it's a horrible

mistake to try to convince the 'as sick as' types of your innocense,

I learned a hard lesson about that, too. Those folks clump up

together like overcooked rice, so you just have to let 'em;

eventually they will screw each other over and end up bitter

enemies, lol.

Sometimes I indulge myself by reading links like this

http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies208.htm

and imagine myself in court having sued them for 'defamation per se'

and the judge announcing that I've won my case.

[Guest guest]

Thanks sweetie, it does help. I will reread this and reread it to help me

when I am not feeling as strong.

>

> I remember an old saying and I am sure I will butcher it, but here goes.

> You cannot control how other people will perceive you, only how you present

> yourself. What your mother did was inexcusable. I can relate to the whole

> adolescent thing. My mother went through menopause the same time I went

> through puberty and it was a living nightmare on top of the personality

> problems.. I still have scars from it. I remember I had just started a

> relationship with a young man and I was telling my mom how I felt and how he

> made me feel. I can remember her eyes going very cold and she looked

> straight at me and said out of the blue, " You know you are not very pretty. "

> Then she got up and walked away leaving me speechless. In many respects I

> have never recovered from that statement. I am still single, over weight and

> have a horrible self image and I can trace it back to that moment. I don't

> like that it has affected me so deeply and I am ashamed that I have let it.

> But I

> never got any information to the contrary, not even from my father when he

> was alive. All I got from him was how much I needed to lose weight. I am

> still working to dig out from under that and to take back my self esteem. I

> am trying to lose weight and have plans to join a matchmaking club. I won't

> live with that anymore. One thearpist that I saw, and this was the only

> insight I got out of her, was that my being overweight was the biggest FU I

> could give my family for the way that they treated me. In a way it has been

> my suit of armor to keep people away from me. But being self destructive is

> no way to live and I am tired of lugging around, literally 50 lbs + of

> baggage.

>

> Oddly enough my son has been a big part of my recovery, deciding to go

> against the wishes of my family and have him on my own has literally saved

> my life. I see me now through his eyes. And to him his Mommy is very pretty

> and very huggable.

>

> My mom has told people things about me, mostly how unreasonable I am and

> how I blow things out of proportion. Her favorite statement is " You know how

> she gets. " Wink wink, nod nod. Most people when they meet me realize pretty

> soon that I am anything but unreasonable.

>

> When you feel strong enough, go back to your home town and meet with your

> family and friends. Let them get to know you and don't let your mom be your

> really bad PR agent. Reclaim those relationships on your own terms. She has

> no right to tear you down in front of others. But I suspect that your family

> and friends realize something is off with your mom anyway. Most people don't

> believe that anyone is " that bad " based on the tales one person tells. If

> they don't have sense enough to see you as you are when you are there in

> person, then they aren't worth the trouble to begin with. The questioning

> you get is because they CAN'T believe everything that your mom says about

> you and are looking to determine the truth for themselves. If they really

> believed it hook, line and sinker they wouldn't even bother to ask any

> questions.

>

> From what I have read and observed isolation is part of the game played by

> the BPD. If they separate you from peers and family they can program you

> better. They tear you down by cutting off anyone who contradicts what they

> are saying about you and to you, from you. If you have ever watched a pack

> of wolves hunt prey you have a good analogy of what is happening to you. Cut

> the prey from the herd, bring it down and eat it. You need the sane members

> of your family, don't give up on them.

>

> I don't know if this happens to you. But one of the things I struggle with

> is surrounding my self with people who seem to mirror my family. It was one

> of the conundrums I have been dealing with lately. If everyone saw me the

> same way how could I argue with the assessments of my family? Writing about

> how my brother married two clearly BPD women, has brought up a thought. Am I

> gravitating towards people who reinforce the negative aspects of my self so

> that I cannot climb out of this pit and re-define my relationships? Many of

> the people I once considered close friends, in hindsight were either BPD or

> extremely selfish. Those that weren't, I lost track of or drifted away

> because I was mistrustful of honest friendships and COULDN'T SEEM TO BOND

> WITH THEM because their feelings for me were literally alien. What was wrong

> with them if they couldn't see what a screw up I was? They didn't reinforce

> my negative self image, therefore they had to go. Meanwhile

> those who did reinforce my self image were really not worth keeping. Now

> that is screwed up! I think if you can recognize these patterns, you can

> work to over come them.

>

> It is amazing to me how we can be related to people by blood who we would

> never associate with by choice. Try thinking of it this way in order to have

> your character assasinated, you have to have character to begin with. These

> have been my experiences and I hope I have helped in some small measure. I

> know it helped me to relate them.

> Thanks

> Be strong. Take care.

>

>

>

> Character assasination

>

> Hello Everyone,

> We've had some excellent discussions about hair pulling and weird gifts

> and

> I guess I'm ready to talk about a deeper level of hurt. My mother would

> talk

> to her friends, my relatives, my teachers and my church leaders about how

> horrible I was and how I hurt her. I don't see how they could have

> believed

> her because my mom wasn't a good actress, didn't have a polished image and

> really just seemed like a big fat phony. In the books they refer to this

> as

> BPD character assasination. A huge part of my decision to go NC with my

> mother was the fact that she told such horrible lies about me.

>

> It was the worst during and after puberty, when a girl needs her mother

> the

> most. My mom went to church every week and would always be several hours

> late getting home. What she did is, during the service, and for as long as

> she could afterwards,she would hold court in the lobby. My mother didn't

> believe in the church (Mormon, or Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day

> Saints), but members of this church are expected to " fellowship " each

> other,

> or try to get people who are drifting away back into the church.

>

> Anyway, my mom would go to church specifically, I believed, because she

> could hold court their, using the women's desire to bring her into the

> church as a full believer to hold their attention. I overheard some of the

> stories she told about me and they were absolutely horrible. The worst

> moment of my life was when one of these women came up to me, when I was

> about 14 and very emotionally fragile because of my horrible mother, and

> she

> said, " Your mother is a good woman. You need to treat her better. "

>

> Anyway, the pain of all of this has kept me away from my home town for 5

> years. I haven't seen any of my extended family or my dad's friends who

> helped raise me because I know she tells them lies and I just can't face

> the

> curious, questioning looks. I know they at least partly believe her based

> on

> what they say and the questions they ask me. I can't believe anyone would

> believe her phony BS, I mean, she isn't a good liar or actress at all.

>

> I'd love to hear similar stories and how you all survived the character

> assassination.

> XOXO, Girlscout

>

>

[Guest guest]

this is a great post. all of my siblings have had at least one

relationship with a bpd/npd type. I fear for my youngest

brother...his wife is slightly 'off', something is just not right.

My sister's first husband beat her, and my other brother right now

is in a custody battle for his child with a npd/bpd type. I've been

with a couple of really dysfunctional types. I know one error I make

is I draw these folks in and don't let go, no matter what. No matter

how great the pain gets, I can take it, because in my child mind

it's the only love I'm going to get. It makes me so mad that not

only did a bpd mess up my childhood but my adult-hood has been a

wreck in many ways because of this too.

I am struggling with my weight right now too. I am trying to gear

myself to lose weight for health reasons. I remember being as close

to being 'perfect' physically as I will ever get, around age 30, and

being in this relationship with an abuser (though a very good-

looking one, we both 'looked great' on the outside) and being so

miserable and empty. And being shocked that being the perfect weight

and completely physically fit did not make me happy. At all. I was

at a conference, staying on the seventeenth floor for about four

days, and I took the stairs up to my room all but two or three

times. Sometimes I walked them just for exercise, sometimes two at a

time. Everyone there was going out to eat every night (and breakfast

too) and I couldn't because my diet was so restrictive. So that was

my 'I got what I always wanted and it really kind of sucks'

moment....I have to have a different motivation to lose weight this

time.

My dad has always been extremely critical of women's appearances. He

sees women as objects who are expected to present themselves as

attractively as possible; if they don't, they are deficient as a

person. I remember being excited about a friend I'd made in a new

school in a town we'd moved to and when we got our pictures back I

took one home and handed it to him, saying 'this is my friend

Becky!'. He studied the photo, said 'she's got a big nose' and

handed it back to me and walked away. I realized he was evaluating

her looks and 'rating her' instead of acting like an @#$% adult and

validating that his child was proud of her new friend. What a maroon

he was about so many things like that...and my sister and I of

course didn't measure up and were made to feel deficient. My sister

had gastric bypass and is finally a normal weight after struggling

her entire life, childhood included, with her weight (she was

overweight even as an infant, my mom thinks they overfed her but on

the upside she has perfect teeth and to this day has never had a

cavity). We were made to feel bad about our looks before we even

really had looks, honestly. My dad is so bitter about whatever

happened to him as a child that apparently destroying his children's

self-esteem was necessary to mitigate that. It's such a waste in so

many ways, and so absurd because my dad is such an intelligent,

gifted man...I don't know how things got so warped.

[Guest guest]

wow that sounds like my nada. when i moved 800 miles away for

college she would send me texts like " how many abortions have you

had? " one time i asked for her address to send my brother and sister

some presents or something and she refused to give it to me because

she was convinced i was getting it to send some hit man down there to

beat her up or vandalize her house or something like that. she also

at one point thought that my old roommate was my pimp, and that i was

literally a whore. im sure she told this to everyone in my

hometown. i remember when i moved in with my dad when i was 17 i

would get numerous calls from people saying " youre mom just loves

you. you need to make up with her. " (all people in our lds church)

she even called every single one of my friends' parents and told them

i was a slut and a partier and they shouldn't let their kids hang out

with me. character assassination was her specialty i believe

> Hello Everyone,

> We've had some excellent discussions about hair pulling and weird

gifts and

> I guess I'm ready to talk about a deeper level of hurt. My mother

would talk

> to her friends, my relatives, my teachers and my church leaders

about how

> horrible I was and how I hurt her. I don't see how they could have

believed

> her because my mom wasn't a good actress, didn't have a polished

image and

> really just seemed like a big fat phony. In the books they refer to

this as

> BPD character assasination. A huge part of my decision to go NC

with my

> mother was the fact that she told such horrible lies about me.

>

> It was the worst during and after puberty, when a girl needs her

mother the

> most. My mom went to church every week and would always be several

hours

> late getting home. What she did is, during the service, and for as

long as

> she could afterwards,she would hold court in the lobby. My mother

didn't

> believe in the church (Mormon, or Church of Jesus Christ and Latter

Day

> Saints), but members of this church are expected to " fellowship "

each other,

> or try to get people who are drifting away back into the church.

>

> Anyway, my mom would go to church specifically, I believed, because

she

> could hold court their, using the women's desire to bring her into

the

> church as a full believer to hold their attention. I overheard some

of the

> stories she told about me and they were absolutely horrible. The

worst

> moment of my life was when one of these women came up to me, when I

was

> about 14 and very emotionally fragile because of my horrible

mother, and she

> said, " Your mother is a good woman. You need to treat her better. "

>

> Anyway, the pain of all of this has kept me away from my home town

for 5

> years. I haven't seen any of my extended family or my dad's friends

who

> helped raise me because I know she tells them lies and I just can't

face the

> curious, questioning looks. I know they at least partly believe her

based on

> what they say and the questions they ask me. I can't believe anyone

would

> believe her phony BS, I mean, she isn't a good liar or actress at

all.

>

> I'd love to hear similar stories and how you all survived the

character

> assassination.

> XOXO, Girlscout

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This technique was one of my nada's specialities. Here's a few

samples.

1. " My friends always tell me that for a fat girl you always dress

nicely and look so clean! " (This one was a regular starting at about

age 10 and continuing until about 5 years ago at age 55!

2. " Your father told me to tell you that he noticed that your upper

lip was dark. Now I see why, you have a lot of hair growing on it! "

(said at age 24 when I was pregnant with my daughter and it wasn't

hair, it was a darkening of my skin that you often get when pg. C'mon

now - MY FATHER noticed that!

3. " The neighbor lady told me that you are very bossy with your

brothers and sisters outside in the neighborhood. I think you get

that from my mother. She was always telling other people what to do. "

(OK to " raise " your kids for you - not OK to " boss " them around in

front of the neighbor lady)

4. " Why don't you get your nose out of that stupid book and go

outside and do something constructive. " You think you're so smart

always reading like that! "

5. Here's one that really hurt - my youngest sister was 9 years

younger than me. I was her godmother when she was born and I always

looked out for her until I left home to get married when she was 10.

She said to me when we were both grown, " You know I really like you.

You are such a caring, kind person. You're nothing at all like Mom

told me you were! " " I always thought you were the fat, bossy, nasty,

mean, selfish child. " " Mom didn't really even know who you were at

all. " ouch!

Finally.........

I sang in a trio throughout high school. Performed often for many

years snd always sang at family gatherings when she was present. At

age 50, my sister brought her to my church for a Christmas program. I

sang several songs with a group of 7 other men and women. After the

program, she came up to me and said, " Why didn't you tell me you

could sing so well? I could have used you at some of the benefits I

put on. I mean you aren't great at singing but good enough!!

You gotta marvel at that kind of unconditional support huh?

>

> Hello Everyone,

> We've had some excellent discussions about hair pulling and weird

gifts and

> I guess I'm ready to talk about a deeper level of hurt. My mother

would talk

> to her friends, my relatives, my teachers and my church leaders

about how

> horrible I was and how I hurt her. I don't see how they could have

believed

> her because my mom wasn't a good actress, didn't have a polished

image and

> really just seemed like a big fat phony. In the books they refer to

this as

> BPD character assasination. A huge part of my decision to go NC

with my

> mother was the fact that she told such horrible lies about me.

>

> It was the worst during and after puberty, when a girl needs her

mother the

> most. My mom went to church every week and would always be several

hours

> late getting home. What she did is, during the service, and for as

long as

> she could afterwards,she would hold court in the lobby. My mother

didn't

> believe in the church (Mormon, or Church of Jesus Christ and Latter

Day

> Saints), but members of this church are expected to " fellowship "

each other,

> or try to get people who are drifting away back into the church.

>

> Anyway, my mom would go to church specifically, I believed, because

she

> could hold court their, using the women's desire to bring her into

the

> church as a full believer to hold their attention. I overheard some

of the

> stories she told about me and they were absolutely horrible. The

worst

> moment of my life was when one of these women came up to me, when I

was

> about 14 and very emotionally fragile because of my horrible

mother, and she

> said, " Your mother is a good woman. You need to treat her better. "

>

> Anyway, the pain of all of this has kept me away from my home town

for 5

> years. I haven't seen any of my extended family or my dad's friends

who

> helped raise me because I know she tells them lies and I just can't

face the

> curious, questioning looks. I know they at least partly believe her

based on

> what they say and the questions they ask me. I can't believe anyone

would

> believe her phony BS, I mean, she isn't a good liar or actress at

all.

>

> I'd love to hear similar stories and how you all survived the

character

> assassination.

> XOXO, Girlscout

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

HI Bunny,

That's really weird. My mom used to adopt my interests too, but luckily I

live far enough that she can't follow me around. She also would rag on me at

church to her friends and say terrible things. Another weird thing is that

in high school when I stopped being friends with this girl because she got

into drugs, my mom started a friendship with her! My mom would invite her

over when I came home from college for a weekend. WTF

I wish I had something helpful to say- I think it is good that you went to

another church.

>

> My NADA is focusing all her attention on me because she is going

> through a divorce. I am hoping that she will start dating someone

> and forget I exist. I have set up boundaries and am limitng how much

> I see her. Meanwhile, she has joined my church (not just

> joined--she is teaching Sunday school and joined the lay ministers

> program). She bad mouths me to all my friends at church because I am

> not giving her the attention she wants. She goes out with the

> groups of ladies I used to go out with. It's church--it's not like I

> can ask her not to come. The last time I went when she was there, a

> friend commented how lucky my mom and I were to get to know each

> other as adults because her mother had died when she was 21. My

> mother looked right at this woman and said, " Well, yeah, the grass

> isn't always greener. " The whole table was quiet. We have

> actually visiting a new church (even though I was married in and our

> daughter was baptized in the first one). When we came home from the

> church we were visiting, my mom was waiting in our driveway and tried

> to find out where we had been, but I avoid any direct answers. I

> wish I knew something better to do than run and hide but so far it's

> the only thing that has given me any peace.

>

> Bunny

>

>

> > >

> > > Hello Everyone,

> > > We've had some excellent discussions about hair pulling and weird

> > gifts and

> > > I guess I'm ready to talk about a deeper level of hurt. My mother

> > would talk

> > > to her friends, my relatives, my teachers and my church leaders

> > about how

> > > horrible I was and how I hurt her. I don't see how they could

> have

> > believed

> > > her because my mom wasn't a good actress, didn't have a polished

> > image and

> > > really just seemed like a big fat phony. In the books they refer

> to

> > this as

> > > BPD character assasination. A huge part of my decision to go NC

> > with my

> > > mother was the fact that she told such horrible lies about me.

> > >

> > > It was the worst during and after puberty, when a girl needs her

> > mother the

> > > most. My mom went to church every week and would always be

> several

> > hours

> > > late getting home. What she did is, during the service, and for

> as

> > long as

> > > she could afterwards,she would hold court in the lobby. My mother

> > didn't

> > > believe in the church (Mormon, or Church of Jesus Christ and

> Latter

> > Day

> > > Saints), but members of this church are expected to " fellowship "

> > each other,

> > > or try to get people who are drifting away back into the church.

> > >

> > > Anyway, my mom would go to church specifically, I believed,

> because

> > she

> > > could hold court their, using the women's desire to bring her

> into

> > the

> > > church as a full believer to hold their attention. I overheard

> some

> > of the

> > > stories she told about me and they were absolutely horrible. The

> > worst

> > > moment of my life was when one of these women came up to me, when

> I

> > was

> > > about 14 and very emotionally fragile because of my horrible

> > mother, and she

> > > said, " Your mother is a good woman. You need to treat her better. "

> > >

> > > Anyway, the pain of all of this has kept me away from my home

> town

> > for 5

> > > years. I haven't seen any of my extended family or my dad's

> friends

> > who

> > > helped raise me because I know she tells them lies and I just

> can't

> > face the

> > > curious, questioning looks. I know they at least partly believe

> her

> > based on

> > > what they say and the questions they ask me. I can't believe

> anyone

> > would

> > > believe her phony BS, I mean, she isn't a good liar or actress at

> > all.

> > >

> > > I'd love to hear similar stories and how you all survived the

> > character

> > > assassination.

> > > XOXO, Girlscout

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

>

> Thank you, Thank you! This post has been so helpful. I see pieces of

> my Nada in all your stories. The worst is that she has completely

> snowed all of my friends and they think she is wonderful. When I try

> to tell them some of the things she does and says they think I am

> making it up.

that is a shame. as far as dating anyone it is essential to me that

they understand my history with my parents and that if they are ever

around them they better be loyal to me. If they can't comprehend that

a person can be one way to someone's face and another way behind their

back I don't want to deal with them. A requirement of friendship for

me would be that they believe my account of things. If they said 'but

she seems so wonderful' and accused me of making things up, I couldn't

take them seriously as a friend anymore. It's so strange how that

competitiveness is such a running thread with these bpd's. I know they

obviously suffered from neglect at some point and it's so weird how so

many, especially females (but this holds true for my dad as well)

believe that love must be taken from another, if you can't 'take' the

love that someone has directed at someone else and make it your own,

then it doesn't really count. I got to be 'friends' with a woman last

year, the one I mentioned that joked about having been diagnosed

with 'a dangerous personality disorder' (yes, I realize at this point

what a huge red flag that is) and she has a horrible, raging case of

this. She once said to me that other women would never go out with her

because she 'takes' all the men. At the time I thought the other women

were envious because she has model-like physical attractiveness, but

then when I got to know her and see that behavior up close I was

shocked at her greed, she really had to feel like the most desired

female at all times. Life is going to be less and less pleasant for

her as time goes on, as she's already in her mid-forties. She is one

of the most pathologically destructive people I've ever know, though

she comes out smelling like a rose most of the time. It's bizarre, and

sad.

[Guest guest]

Hi All - I feel the same way - the character assassination is an area of

lingering hurt for me and it's one of the harder things to get over. BUT - I

have found that when I decided to go back around family members, no one treated

me like they had taken anything my nada has told them to heart. First of all, I

really believe that old saying " you wouldn't worry about what people think of

you if you realized how seldom they do. " It's something like that. Dr. Phil

says it all the time. It basically says - it's not all about you. People have

their own complicated lives and they don't necessarily sit around replaying what

your nada says about you and plotting a way to snub you the next time they see

you. So - I try to remember that. Then I also know that even if my family

doesn't realize there is a true mental illness at work with my nada, I'm sure

they at least see her as " difficult. " I work on remembering these two things

when I decide to go around

family members who may be " polluted " by my nada. I also say " looking and

feeling good is the best revenge " so I make sure I'm feeling good about myself

when I walk in. I want people to see happiness, openess, and good humor when

they see me. That way - I know I will stick out like a sore thumb compared to

my mom. So far, it has really worked for me. If someone decides to listen to

my mom's character assisination of me and my husband, I don't need them in my

life. Period.

Tag

Re: Character assasination

Its exactly what you said: SURVIVAL. The character assassination is

horrible and is the part that bothers me the most. My MIL annihilates

my husband and I behind our backs. Here's the silver lining though:

I think deep down most people know. Its animal instinct to try and

rescue someone who is crying and most of the BPs do a brilliant job

working the victim angle and weeping about how awful YOU are how they

" just don't understand what they have done to deserve this. "

Pull out of the situation though, and pretend you don't know your

mother and you are listening to her go on about how aweful and hurtful

her child is. Do you believe her? What's your main objective? If

your like most, you want to put a bandaid on it. People around your

mother quickly gather that the quick fix would be for you to apologize

(for something you didn't do). It doesn't matter to them whether or

not her accusations are true. They are just trying to keep the peace.

They don't have near the investment in this woman that you do.

Plus, I think sometimes at church people get the idea of emulating

Christ and being a doormat confused.

Bottom line: people that know you will know she is lying. Most

likely, even people that don't know you will know she is lying.

However, most people will not call someone out on a lie - its just

easier to sympathize (put the bandaid on it).

Try not to worry about it, bc it will never change.

>

> Hello Everyone,

> We've had some excellent discussions about hair pulling and weird

gifts and

> I guess I'm ready to talk about a deeper level of hurt. My mother

would talk

> to her friends, my relatives, my teachers and my church leaders

about how

> horrible I was and how I hurt her. I don't see how they could have

believed

> her because my mom wasn't a good actress, didn't have a polished

image and

> really just seemed like a big fat phony. In the books they refer to

this as

> BPD character assasination. A huge part of my decision to go NC with my

> mother was the fact that she told such horrible lies about me.

>

> It was the worst during and after puberty, when a girl needs her

mother the

> most. My mom went to church every week and would always be several hours

> late getting home. What she did is, during the service, and for as

long as

> she could afterwards,she would hold court in the lobby. My mother didn't

> believe in the church (Mormon, or Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day

> Saints), but members of this church are expected to " fellowship "

each other,

> or try to get people who are drifting away back into the church.

>

> Anyway, my mom would go to church specifically, I believed, because she

> could hold court their, using the women's desire to bring her into the

> church as a full believer to hold their attention. I overheard some

of the

> stories she told about me and they were absolutely horrible. The worst

> moment of my life was when one of these women came up to me, when I was

> about 14 and very emotionally fragile because of my horrible mother,

and she

> said, " Your mother is a good woman. You need to treat her better. "

>

> Anyway, the pain of all of this has kept me away from my home town for 5

> years. I haven't seen any of my extended family or my dad's friends who

> helped raise me because I know she tells them lies and I just can't

face the

> curious, questioning looks. I know they at least partly believe her

based on

> what they say and the questions they ask me. I can't believe anyone

would

> believe her phony BS, I mean, she isn't a good liar or actress at all.

>

> I'd love to hear similar stories and how you all survived the character

> assassination.

> XOXO, Girlscout

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hello Everyone,

> > > > > > We've had some excellent discussions about hair pulling

and

> > weird

> > > > > gifts and

> > > > > > I guess I'm ready to talk about a deeper level of hurt. My

> > mother

> > > > > would talk

> > > > > > to her friends, my relatives, my teachers and my church

> > leaders

> > > > > about how

> > > > > > horrible I was and how I hurt her. I don't see how they

could

> > > > have

> > > > > believed

> > > > > > her because my mom wasn't a good actress, didn't have a

> > polished

> > > > > image and

> > > > > > really just seemed like a big fat phony. In the books they

> > refer

> > > > to

> > > > > this as

> > > > > > BPD character assasination. A huge part of my decision to

go

> > NC

> > > > > with my

> > > > > > mother was the fact that she told such horrible lies

about me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It was the worst during and after puberty, when a girl

needs

> > her

> > > > > mother the

> > > > > > most. My mom went to church every week and would always be

> > > > several

> > > > > hours

> > > > > > late getting home. What she did is, during the service,

and

> > for

> > > > as

> > > > > long as

> > > > > > she could afterwards,she would hold court in the lobby. My

> > mother

> > > > > didn't

> > > > > > believe in the church (Mormon, or Church of Jesus Christ

and

> > > > Latter

> > > > > Day

> > > > > > Saints), but members of this church are expected

> > to " fellowship "

> > > > > each other,

> > > > > > or try to get people who are drifting away back into the

> > church.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anyway, my mom would go to church specifically, I

believed,

> > > > because

> > > > > she

> > > > > > could hold court their, using the women's desire to bring

her

> > > > into

> > > > > the

> > > > > > church as a full believer to hold their attention. I

overheard

> > > > some

> > > > > of the

> > > > > > stories she told about me and they were absolutely

horrible.

> > The

> > > > > worst

> > > > > > moment of my life was when one of these women came up to

me,

> > when

> > > > I

> > > > > was

> > > > > > about 14 and very emotionally fragile because of my

horrible

> > > > > mother, and she

> > > > > > said, " Your mother is a good woman. You need to treat her

> > better. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anyway, the pain of all of this has kept me away from my

home

> > > > town

> > > > > for 5

> > > > > > years. I haven't seen any of my extended family or my

dad's

> > > > friends

> > > > > who

> > > > > > helped raise me because I know she tells them lies and I

just

> > > > can't

> > > > > face the

> > > > > > curious, questioning looks. I know they at least partly

> > believe

> > > > her

> > > > > based on

> > > > > > what they say and the questions they ask me. I can't

believe

> > > > anyone

> > > > > would

> > > > > > believe her phony BS, I mean, she isn't a good liar or

> > actress at

> > > > > all.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'd love to hear similar stories and how you all survived

the

> > > > > character

> > > > > > assassination.

> > > > > > XOXO, Girlscout

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hello Everyone,

> > > > > > We've had some excellent discussions about hair pulling

and

> > weird

> > > > > gifts and

> > > > > > I guess I'm ready to talk about a deeper level of hurt. My

> > mother

> > > > > would talk

> > > > > > to her friends, my relatives, my teachers and my church

> > leaders

> > > > > about how

> > > > > > horrible I was and how I hurt her. I don't see how they

could

> > > > have

> > > > > believed

> > > > > > her because my mom wasn't a good actress, didn't have a

> > polished

> > > > > image and

> > > > > > really just seemed like a big fat phony. In the books they

> > refer

> > > > to

> > > > > this as

> > > > > > BPD character assasination. A huge part of my decision to

go

> > NC

> > > > > with my

> > > > > > mother was the fact that she told such horrible lies

about me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It was the worst during and after puberty, when a girl

needs

> > her

> > > > > mother the

> > > > > > most. My mom went to church every week and would always be

> > > > several

> > > > > hours

> > > > > > late getting home. What she did is, during the service,

and

> > for

> > > > as

> > > > > long as

> > > > > > she could afterwards,she would hold court in the lobby. My

> > mother

> > > > > didn't

> > > > > > believe in the church (Mormon, or Church of Jesus Christ

and

> > > > Latter

> > > > > Day

> > > > > > Saints), but members of this church are expected

> > to " fellowship "

> > > > > each other,

> > > > > > or try to get people who are drifting away back into the

> > church.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anyway, my mom would go to church specifically, I

believed,

> > > > because

> > > > > she

> > > > > > could hold court their, using the women's desire to bring

her

> > > > into

> > > > > the

> > > > > > church as a full believer to hold their attention. I

overheard

> > > > some

> > > > > of the

> > > > > > stories she told about me and they were absolutely

horrible.

> > The

> > > > > worst

> > > > > > moment of my life was when one of these women came up to

me,

> > when

> > > > I

> > > > > was

> > > > > > about 14 and very emotionally fragile because of my

horrible

> > > > > mother, and she

> > > > > > said, " Your mother is a good woman. You need to treat her

> > better. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anyway, the pain of all of this has kept me away from my

home

> > > > town

> > > > > for 5

> > > > > > years. I haven't seen any of my extended family or my

dad's

> > > > friends

> > > > > who

> > > > > > helped raise me because I know she tells them lies and I

just

> > > > can't

> > > > > face the

> > > > > > curious, questioning looks. I know they at least partly

> > believe

> > > > her

> > > > > based on

> > > > > > what they say and the questions they ask me. I can't

believe

> > > > anyone

> > > > > would

> > > > > > believe her phony BS, I mean, she isn't a good liar or

> > actress at

> > > > > all.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'd love to hear similar stories and how you all survived

the

> > > > > character

> > > > > > assassination.

> > > > > > XOXO, Girlscout

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

That is exactly what it's like! We tried to stay at church for about

six months, thinking that she would eventually move on to something

else. When we gave up a few weeks ago and started visiting other

churches (and she was waiting in our driveway), she told me that

she's not all that committed to our church (Sunday School teacher?

Lay Minister? Confirmation Classes? All just hobbies, I suppose)and

that she might look around too---the subtext was that she would look

wherever we are looking. AGH! I have been careful not to teach my

daughter the name of the church we have been attending--we call

it " Ms. Becky's church " because my friend Becky attends there. I

feel like such a coward, but it got to the point at our church that I

couldn't go to the service because I couldn't leave the nursery for

fear my NADA would get my daughter and tell her God-knows-what. (We

don't allow NADA unsupervised time with my daughter--which we have

never told her but which she has figured out--and she will do really

odd things to try to get a few minutes alone with her). By the time I

took our girl to the nursery in the morning, the nursery worker would

say, " You're mother has been by here three times already looking for

her. " So I would just stay with my girl in the nursery with my mother

hovering outside the window--which was fun playtime --except for the

stress--but we could have done that if we spent the morning at home--

without the stress. But yes, I do hope that now that we aren't

attending our church she will give up and we can quietly go back.

And I hope that if we do, that my friends will have enough history

with me that they won't believe all the horrible things my mother is

saying. It's a church where people don't really gossip, and I like

to think that other people can see through her facade because all of

her friendships are so short-lived.

>

> That's a tough one. Any chance she might lose interest in your

church if you

> ignore her behavior? I can't imagine, finding your mother at

church. That

> would sort of be like if i walked into work and found my mother

answering

> the phones at the reception desk.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I know you are right--it's hard not to give her information, but I am

going to try.

Bunny

In WTOAdultChildren1 , Wilkinson

wrote:

>

> Move to the new church if it suits you and do not tell your Nada

where it is or what church it is. Don't say anything. Don't even

acknowledge that you are going to church to her. Instruct your

husband to simply smile and say that it is a deeply personal decision

and they will not discuss it. It is none of her business. It is not

fair, but you need sanctuary at a place of worship and if your mother

will not let you have it you need to seek it out. Don't feel guilty,

this is for you not her.

>

>

>

> Re: Character assasination

>

> My NADA is focusing all her attention on me because she is going

> through a divorce. I am hoping that she will start dating someone

> and forget I exist. I have set up boundaries and am limitng how

much

> I see her. Meanwhile, she has joined my church (not just

> joined--she is teaching Sunday school and joined the lay ministers

> program). She bad mouths me to all my friends at church because I

am

> not giving her the attention she wants. She goes out with the

> groups of ladies I used to go out with. It's church--it's not like

I

> can ask her not to come. The last time I went when she was there, a

> friend commented how lucky my mom and I were to get to know each

> other as adults because her mother had died when she was 21. My

> mother looked right at this woman and said, " Well, yeah, the grass

> isn't always greener. " The whole table was quiet. We have

> actually visiting a new church (even though I was married in and

our

> daughter was baptized in the first one). When we came home from the

> church we were visiting, my mom was waiting in our driveway and

tried

> to find out where we had been, but I avoid any direct answers. I

> wish I knew something better to do than run and hide but so far

it's

> the only thing that has given me any peace.

>

> Bunny

>

>

> > >

> > > Hello Everyone,

> > > We've had some excellent discussions about hair pulling and

weird

> > gifts and

> > > I guess I'm ready to talk about a deeper level of hurt. My

mother

> > would talk

> > > to her friends, my relatives, my teachers and my church leaders

> > about how

> > > horrible I was and how I hurt her. I don't see how they could

> have

> > believed

> > > her because my mom wasn't a good actress, didn't have a

polished

> > image and

> > > really just seemed like a big fat phony. In the books they

refer

> to

> > this as

> > > BPD character assasination. A huge part of my decision to go NC

> > with my

> > > mother was the fact that she told such horrible lies about me.

> > >

> > > It was the worst during and after puberty, when a girl needs

her

> > mother the

> > > most. My mom went to church every week and would always be

> several

> > hours

> > > late getting home. What she did is, during the service, and for

> as

> > long as

> > > she could afterwards,she would hold court in the lobby. My

mother

> > didn't

> > > believe in the church (Mormon, or Church of Jesus Christ and

> Latter

> > Day

> > > Saints), but members of this church are expected

to " fellowship "

> > each other,

> > > or try to get people who are drifting away back into the church.

> > >

> > > Anyway, my mom would go to church specifically, I believed,

> because

> > she

> > > could hold court their, using the women's desire to bring her

> into

> > the

> > > church as a full believer to hold their attention. I overheard

> some

> > of the

> > > stories she told about me and they were absolutely horrible.

The

> > worst

> > > moment of my life was when one of these women came up to me,

when

> I

> > was

> > > about 14 and very emotionally fragile because of my horrible

> > mother, and she

> > > said, " Your mother is a good woman. You need to treat her

better. "

> > >

> > > Anyway, the pain of all of this has kept me away from my home

> town

> > for 5

> > > years. I haven't seen any of my extended family or my dad's

> friends

> > who

> > > helped raise me because I know she tells them lies and I just

> can't

> > face the

> > > curious, questioning looks. I know they at least partly believe

> her

> > based on

> > > what they say and the questions they ask me. I can't believe

> anyone

> > would

> > > believe her phony BS, I mean, she isn't a good liar or actress

at

> > all.

> > >

> > > I'd love to hear similar stories and how you all survived the

> > character

> > > assassination.

> > > XOXO, Girlscout

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Carla,

That's the hard part. As a KO I always figure I'm to blame and don't

deserve any forgiveness. I'm having a troubled day,.....

Mercy

>

>

> I say as KO's we should be forgiven for our paranoia just a little.

>

> Carla

[Guest guest]

I am sooo in that place right now. While therapy has been incredibly

supportive and discovering the real issues of my Nada have been

helpful all of this has also slammed me wide awake to the patterns

(although less) that I have learned through my nadas behavior.

Forgiveness and giving myself a break is not coming easy. I feel

horrible for some of the things I have put my husband through and yes

I do feel in my gut I am to completely blame even though it was a

dynamic. It's that black and white thing all over the right and

wrong. I am doing so much better in my relationships now and yet

still can't find the acceptance button. How come the rewind and play

back buttons are so easy to find? and the darn eject button never

works? Sorry you are having a troubled day Mercy.

Suebee

> >

> >

> > I say as KO's we should be forgiven for our paranoia just a little.

> >

> > Carla

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Girlscout - I'm new but, I sure can relate to your growing up! I

had to go through therapy in a custody battle that was the best

thing I've ever done, for my awareness of who I am, not who my mom

said I was. I've also read confidence books, most recently the one

by Walter that originally I was going to read to help my 13

year old with confidence. It has helped me too. What the therapist

told me from the get go was to suround myself with a new healthy

family of support, if I didn't have it to go out and find it asap.

Then I also prayed all the time for it. -

>

> Hello Everyone,

> We've had some excellent discussions about hair pulling and weird

gifts and

> I guess I'm ready to talk about a deeper level of hurt. My mother

would talk

> to her friends, my relatives, my teachers and my church leaders

about how

> horrible I was and how I hurt her. I don't see how they could have

believed

> her because my mom wasn't a good actress, didn't have a polished

image and

> really just seemed like a big fat phony. In the books they refer

to this as

> BPD character assasination. A huge part of my decision to go NC

with my

> mother was the fact that she told such horrible lies about me.

>

> It was the worst during and after puberty, when a girl needs her

mother the

> most. My mom went to church every week and would always be several

hours

> late getting home. What she did is, during the service, and for as

long as

> she could afterwards,she would hold court in the lobby. My mother

didn't

> believe in the church (Mormon, or Church of Jesus Christ and

Latter Day

> Saints), but members of this church are expected to " fellowship "

each other,

> or try to get people who are drifting away back into the church.

>

> Anyway, my mom would go to church specifically, I believed,

because she

> could hold court their, using the women's desire to bring her into

the

> church as a full believer to hold their attention. I overheard

some of the

> stories she told about me and they were absolutely horrible. The

worst

> moment of my life was when one of these women came up to me, when

I was

> about 14 and very emotionally fragile because of my horrible

mother, and she

> said, " Your mother is a good woman. You need to treat her better. "

>

> Anyway, the pain of all of this has kept me away from my home town

for 5

> years. I haven't seen any of my extended family or my dad's

friends who

> helped raise me because I know she tells them lies and I just

can't face the

> curious, questioning looks. I know they at least partly believe

her based on

> what they say and the questions they ask me. I can't believe

anyone would

> believe her phony BS, I mean, she isn't a good liar or actress at

all.

>

> I'd love to hear similar stories and how you all survived the

character

> assassination.

> XOXO, Girlscout

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm in a bad place regarding all of this right now. I began therapy several

months ago..it has helped but I'm still in the painful healing process.

My main wound that must heal is that I have developed an absolute terror of

other people. Really, it has been destructive to my functioning as a productive

member of society. Here's the situation:

My Nada would do the cruelest abuses she could think of (having fake heart

attacks, beating me without any warning or provocation, horrible character

assassination, and one psycho episode after the next). She would do all of that

in private without witnesses but, the SECOND any member of the " public " showed

up, she would immediately become " saintly " .

Here's one example: She would often have her fake heart attacks. I had already

learned not to call the paramedics when she did that (the first time I tried to

call for help she forced me intro a choke hold and then dragged me around the

kitchen floor by my hair). Imagine this: A supposed grown woman was on the floor

in fake convulsions, frothing at the mouth. The phone then rang and, like

nothing had happened at all, she immediately got up and answered the phone. She

sounded so sweet and calm. She often changed her demeanor like a light switch.

Another example: She would rage while driving to church. She would scream

obscenities at small kids but, the SECOND, her foot hit the church parking lot,

she became " saintly " again. I would watch her as she went up to get Communion

(for those that aren't Catholic, it is a mortal sin to accept Communion without

confession. She obviously didn't consider screaming obscenities at children to

be sinful at all). I almost expected her head to spin around like the " Exorcist "

movie when she blessed herself with Holy Water or took Communion. It is terrible

when you live with a " mother " who really is just Satan's Sadistic Sister.

How did all that affect me? I don't trust anyone. The sweeter a person is the

more uncomfortable I am around them. I don't have any personal friendships

anymore because the terror of " waiting for the attack " is too much to handle.

Ironically, I can handle myself well in superficial situations. I am a kind,

respectful, and trustworthy person. Other people have noticed that and have

offered their friendships to me. The moment they ask me to socialize with them I

find excuses not to go because I am terrified that they will hurt me. I am

terrified that they are sadists that are scheming to attack when I am

vulnerable.

How do I heal from this? It has sabotaged my career,my mental health, and my

life. I want to heal but I don't know how. Do any of you feel that way? How did

you cope?

sboothdaniels wrote:

I am sooo in that place right now. While therapy has been incredibly

supportive and discovering the real issues of my Nada have been

helpful all of this has also slammed me wide awake to the patterns

(although less) that I have learned through my nadas behavior.

Forgiveness and giving myself a break is not coming easy. I feel

horrible for some of the things I have put my husband through and yes

I do feel in my gut I am to completely blame even though it was a

dynamic. It's that black and white thing all over the right and

wrong. I am doing so much better in my relationships now and yet

still can't find the acceptance button. How come the rewind and play

back buttons are so easy to find? and the darn eject button never

works? Sorry you are having a troubled day Mercy.

Suebee

> >

> >

> > I say as KO's we should be forgiven for our paranoia just a little.

> >

> > Carla

>

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

I am so sorry for what you have been through. It sounds to me like

you are having a natural response to an insane situation. Very few

people understand what it is like to live with a Jekyll and Hyde. I

was thinking yesterday that we are told so many things in this

culture that are not true. For instance, that someone who has a

level gaze, direct eye contact, and acts calm is not lying, and that

someone that acts nervous, can't meet eye contact or look you in the

face, is probably dishonest. The fact is that the first example

could easily be of a sociopath, bpd, or npd, and the second example

could just as easily be a very honest person who has lived with

abuse all their lives and doesn't know which end is up because of

it. The fact that our society believes that 'looks good/sounds good'

IS good is what bpd/sociopath types count on. We are so isolated

from each other as a culture (not living tribally with extended

family, I mean) that so many times bpd's do not get found out...for

the brief moments they are in the 'outside world' they make sure all

their ducks are in a row. I wonder if there is a professional out

there who can walk you through some of the more difficult

situations, as far as drawing closer to people, you might need

someone to be there for you every step of the way. I think your

hesitation is well-founded, but that is only because I have drawn

severl bpd's into my life in the last couple years, which has been

devastating to me because I really thought I would be

more 'together' at this point in my life and I am not, not at all.

Bpd's are very hard to detect, and they make a point of having all

the attributes (or at least pretending to have them) that people are

drawn to like looks, money, charm, 'virtue', whatever. We know

better than anyone how hard it is to tell a bpd from a normal

person, even though there are warning signs.

I have great empathy for what you have gone through and I feel like

I don't really know what to say that would help, except that it

sounds like you are protecting yourself and that is only natural.

From the numbers my father, sister, and mother pulled on me growing

up I stay isolated alot as well. It is my nature but I think I take

it to an extreme. I wish you the best.