Guest guest Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 > Self mutilation is not normally something that is easy to stop, not > normally a habit you pick up by choice. Have you tried to stop > yourself? have you tried to get help from others? I am guessing you > have, most addicts do not seek help, want help or even care. Most addicts do not want to admit they have a problem. I can relate to that. It's too scary to admit you can't control yourself, that your life is spinning out of control, so you pretend everything's fine. I have yet to meet anyone who wanted to become an addict. They wanted to do drugs or drink, but never wanted it to go out of control. And I chose to start hurting myself - I decided to pinch myself for thinking 'bad thoughts' when I was 10. Then it progressed to punching and biting myself in the wrist to try to make a bruise, and now it's sometimes really scary (for example I hit myself on the head with a glass bottle once). Ettina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 > > Re: > > > Bullying is not an inherent NT behavior. It is the behavior that > > people (possibly especially NTs, but certainly others too) tend > to do > > in a highly competitive social hierarchy where someone must be at > the > > bottom. ... > > Still, why wouldn't having empathy (which the NTs, including the > avowed bullies, claim they have and we don't) make NTs less likely > to bully? > Because empathy is not the only factor involved, and because they rationalize it away and neutralize their own empathy. But deep down they know. > Even NTs at the top of the heap with no fear of ever approaching > the bottom, NTs who proudly *admit* that they bully us " non- > empathetic " folks (and who have no problem with calling it bullying > because they see bullying as A Very Good Thing: " the HUMAN thing to > do, " as one teacher told me) ... Firstly, it's not only trying not to be at the bottom. It may be trying to stay at the top, or move up or stay in the middle. In fact the ones who bully the most are at the top, because there's the most competition there. And bullying can be rationalized by a) viewing it as 'helping' the victim, or viewing the victim as not deserving any better. > > What makes *us* the perfect victims (even better victims than folks > in wheelchairs or whatever)? What makes *us " so specially useful and > convenient (even more convenient than blind people or deaf people or > people on crutches or what-have-you) to folks who need someone, > anyone to put into that " socially necessary Designated Victim slot " > (as one of my former therapists called it)? > > I don't mean that NTs *never* get bullied: I do mean that we get > bullied much more often, much more severely — and with much more > social approval and support for the bullies — than any group of NTs > I can think of. > What about gays? Also, many other groups know how to follow the NT pattern of social hierarchy, and though they have a socially undesired trait they can figure out how to socially compensate - we're different in our pattern of social interaction, and can't figure out their pattern. > (Based on past experiences, I feel morally certain that, if I walked > into a room which had some NTs bullying one of their number — say, a > highly " bully-able " blind, homosexual midget NT in a wheelchair — as > soon as I walked into the room, the other NTs would let the previous > victim alone and turn on me instead: a much better victim, obviously > " naturally suited for the purpose of being the ideal victim that > provides the perfect release " as my fifth-grade art-teacher very > carefully explained because she wanted to " help " me to " accept this " > as my " natural place in society " which I needed to fill because it > would do everyone else so much good: I had no right to object to > giving my classmates the perfect opportunity to " express and develop > this aspect of the human personality. " As the art-teacher saw it, > trying to stop others from expressing their " natural and healthy > instincts and drives in this direction " made as little sense (and > suggested as much cruelty in my nature) as forbidding paper and > canvas to a gifted young artist who had a wonderful set of paints > and the will to try them out. How *dared* I object, when my mere > objection (to serving as an object for their use and delight) might > thwart their free expression, their full development, and (of > course) their self-esteem?!?!?! > Well, she was just plain wrong. In fact, bullies usually have low self-esteem. Partly this may be that bullying is used to try to help them feel better about themselves, but partly on some level they feel bad about what they are doing. Especially the less 'hard-core' bullies, the occasional bullies and the bystanders who encourage or ignore bullying. They're more likely to recognize it as wrong. Ettina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Re: > > I don't mean that NTs *never* get bullied: I do mean that we get > > bullied much more often, much more severely — and with much more > > social approval and support for the bullies — than any group of NTs > > I can think of. > > > What about gays? I think we get picked on worse than the gays get picked on. At least, so I judge from my experiences in social settings (at school, work, and elsewhere) that included both gays and Aspies. (I imagine, actually, that gay Aspies might get bullied worse than anyone ... except, possibly, gay black blind Muslim midget Aspies?!?!?!) Kate Gladstone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Yeah... but there are no laws preventing Aspies from getting married. > > Re: > > > > > I don't mean that NTs *never* get bullied: I do mean that we get > > > bullied much more often, much more severely — and with much more > > > social approval and support for the bullies — than any group of NTs > > > I can think of. > > > > > What about gays? > > I think we get picked on worse than the gays get picked on. At least, > so I judge from my experiences in social settings (at school, work, > and elsewhere) that included both gays and Aspies. > (I imagine, actually, that gay Aspies might get bullied worse > than anyone ... except, possibly, gay black blind Muslim midget > Aspies?!?!?!) > > > Kate Gladstone > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 There are still plenty of NT teachers who have the " not > one of us " rejection for students outside the norm, but they have > learned to " be professional " about it and most like that conceal it > well except from staff like me... special ed teachers get a really > clear picture of their real colleagues' perceptions, pretty quick. Scarily my own sister is one of those kinds of teachers, and not long ago she was considering becoming a special needs teacher because she held the belief that special needs kids appreciate their education more. Yikes, She doesn't believe in ADHD and only just barely believes in ASDs. Imagine her as a special needs teacher ... OMG!!! Genyin -- " I know the answer! The answer lies within the heart of all mankind! The answer is twelve? I think I'm in the wrong building. " M. Schultz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 > I think we get picked on worse than the gays get picked on. I think that's only true now because of education and adult disapproval and sanctions. Gays used to get it very very badly. Now it's becoming more and more socially acceptable to be gay, and less and less acceptable to bully people for that. I hope that one day it will be the same for AC folk. It just won't be acceptable to bully people for our AC traits. That's one thing the autistic rights movement will eventually reduce right down. It will never go away, just as bullying gays hasn't completely gone. But it will get much much better and much much less acceptable. Genyin -- " I know the answer! The answer lies within the heart of all mankind! The answer is twelve? I think I'm in the wrong building. " M. Schultz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 > Yeah... but there are no laws preventing Aspies from getting married. Unless they are also gay ... Anti discrimination laws are needed across the board. Gays now have them to an extent, and that extent keeps expanding. I think gay marriage will come in time. What ACs need is laws enforced that prevent discrimination of our traits, and because groups like gays and blacks and women have gone before we have more idea how to go about it, and what is possible. It's not that Aspies are a special group as such but that equality needs to be gradually enforced until it becomes the natural way. I meant to include this little story in my last post: over a year ago I was on a train in the south of England. A group of four public school girls returning home were seated nearby and I could hear them talking. One of them, who had dominated a lot of the conversation to that point, started describing a woman who had come into the railway station toilets while she was there. The woman was in a wheelchair and probably had something like cerebral palsy by the description, but the girl was very nasty about it, mocking the noises the woman made and her lack of control of her body. She clearly expected the other girls to join in the joke/mockery ... but they didn't. There was an awkward silence, then one of them said something about not talking about people like that. I was quite astounded, in a good way. Up to then they'd been a noisy bunch of kids that I'd have been happier not to be travelling with, but they showed themselves to be actually considerate thoughtful people. The girl who spoke badly of the woman is unlikely to make the same mistake again. So messages of acceptance are filtering through. It takes time and it takes effort, and for ACs who want to make a difference I strongly believe now is the time. Most other differences and disabilities are more accepted now, and we have to help people expand that acceptance to include us. The changes, the big deep ones, will come too late for us as it takes a generation for the legal changes to affect peoples' actual attitudes. But we will be the ones who bring about those changes. Genyin -- " I know the answer! The answer lies within the heart of all mankind! The answer is twelve? I think I'm in the wrong building. " M. Schultz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 We can get married in Canada... Jo Re: Empathy?? On 10/01/2008, De Carlo <ardecarlogmail (DOT) com> wrote: > Yeah... but there are no laws preventing Aspies from getting married. Unless they are also gay ... Anti discrimination laws are needed across the board. Gays now have them to an extent, and that extent keeps expanding. I think gay marriage will come in time. What ACs need is laws enforced that prevent discrimination of our traits, and because groups like gays and blacks and women have gone before we have more idea how to go about it, and what is possible. It's not that Aspies are a special group as such but that equality needs to be gradually enforced until it becomes the natural way. I meant to include this little story in my last post: over a year ago I was on a train in the south of England. A group of four public school girls returning home were seated nearby and I could hear them talking. One of them, who had dominated a lot of the conversation to that point, started describing a woman who had come into the railway station toilets while she was there. The woman was in a wheelchair and probably had something like cerebral palsy by the description, but the girl was very nasty about it, mocking the noises the woman made and her lack of control of her body. She clearly expected the other girls to join in the joke/mockery ... but they didn't. There was an awkward silence, then one of them said something about not talking about people like that. I was quite astounded, in a good way. Up to then they'd been a noisy bunch of kids that I'd have been happier not to be travelling with, but they showed themselves to be actually considerate thoughtful people. The girl who spoke badly of the woman is unlikely to make the same mistake again. So messages of acceptance are filtering through. It takes time and it takes effort, and for ACs who want to make a difference I strongly believe now is the time. Most other differences and disabilities are more accepted now, and we have to help people expand that acceptance to include us. The changes, the big deep ones, will come too late for us as it takes a generation for the legal changes to affect peoples' actual attitudes. But we will be the ones who bring about those changes. Genyin -- " I know the answer! The answer lies within the heart of all mankind! The answer is twelve? I think I'm in the wrong building. " M. Schultz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 > We can get married in Canada... Is that a proposal? Lol. Genyin -- " I know the answer! The answer lies within the heart of all mankind! The answer is twelve? I think I'm in the wrong building. " M. Schultz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 As far as global warming. Do we want the next generation inheriting the problem, then saying, " when were you aware of this? Just when did you know? What did you do to curb it? When did you know, what did you do to help? " I won't get started. K > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: " bigearbob2000 " <bigearbob2000@... <bigearbob2000%40yahoo.com> > > > > > Have to be carefull with the news. The media likes to make things > > seem worse than they are. > > Yes, they sensationalize things; now more than ever. > > > > > They make it look like crime is getting worse, in truth crime rates > > in the US have been going down for some time. > > One day they say it's gone up the next they say it's gone down. > > > > > They would have you believe man made global warming, 10 mins of > > research on the internet can tell you what facts and truths there are. > > I say man made because the earth is warming, but not as fast as they > > act like it is, and if we are the cause has not been proven. > > I believe it's a natural phenomenon, but we are contributing to it. > > Fact is > > they cant predict weather more than 3 days in advance with any kind of > > accuarcy, to say we know what the world will be like in 50 years is a > > hand full of scientist tossing numbers out for fun. > > Glaciers are melting at an alarming rate. > > > > > I am not sure if you got the point of my post or not. In case you > > didn't understand, its the fact we are getting painted as these > > uncaring people, they make us sound selfish. > > Most people are uncaring. As long as their lives aren't affected > negatively, > they just go about their lives like nothing's happening. > > D. > > > -- " You must do the very thing you think you cannot do-- " Eleanor Roosevelt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 I did a little bit yesterday. My 28 year old daughter was leaving to go back to her home from a visit with me. She was looking forward to the two and a half hour drive to the airport to have some last time with me to chat etc. I wasn't particularly excited about the drive to the airport - or back on my own. But I was going to do it for her. Then, I remembered (I'm older - it's not something I grew up with) about the carbon footprint that my car would leave, and we both knew there might be room on the airport bus from town. So, we paid for her to go on the bus. It was last minute, but I feel good about trying to save the environment (personally I think it's too late) even though I had to give up some visiting time with my daughter. I did my little part. I also take the bus when I can in town, and walk when I can too. I bought a home from which I can walk to most places. But still, I offend. We have a menonite community near here. They have had it right all along. Jo Re: Empathy?? As far as global warming. Do we want the next generation inheriting the problem, then saying, " when were you aware of this? Just when did you know? What did you do to curb it? When did you know, what did you do to help? " I won't get started. K On Jan 8, 2008 9:57 PM, Delila <watertiger9@ verizon.net> wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: " bigearbob2000 " <bigearbob2000@ yahoo.com <bigearbob2000% 40yahoo.com> > > > > > Have to be carefull with the news. The media likes to make things > > seem worse than they are. > > Yes, they sensationalize things; now more than ever. > > > > > They make it look like crime is getting worse, in truth crime rates > > in the US have been going down for some time. > > One day they say it's gone up the next they say it's gone down. > > > > > They would have you believe man made global warming, 10 mins of > > research on the internet can tell you what facts and truths there are. > > I say man made because the earth is warming, but not as fast as they > > act like it is, and if we are the cause has not been proven. > > I believe it's a natural phenomenon, but we are contributing to it. > > Fact is > > they cant predict weather more than 3 days in advance with any kind of > > accuarcy, to say we know what the world will be like in 50 years is a > > hand full of scientist tossing numbers out for fun. > > Glaciers are melting at an alarming rate. > > > > > I am not sure if you got the point of my post or not. In case you > > didn't understand, its the fact we are getting painted as these > > uncaring people, they make us sound selfish. > > Most people are uncaring. As long as their lives aren't affected > negatively, > they just go about their lives like nothing's happening. > > D. > > > -- " You must do the very thing you think you cannot do-- " Eleanor Roosevelt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Is self mutilation about " choice " any more than drugs/drink? I mean, who " chooses " to cut themselves? It's more like an urge, it's not about thinking really. Aren't they both evidence of something gone wrong and that the person is in some kind of pain, is unhappy in their life, etc? I think one can feel like one chooses, each time they self injure. Probably alcoholics and drug addicts feel like they choose at first. That's why addiction can be so insidious. You feel like you are choosing to feel better even though you know you are damaging yourself. I know five former alcoholics. All five of these guys blame no one but themselves for what they did. I know many more that continue to be drunks and blame everyone else. I have never met an alcoholic that continued to drink, knowing they where a drunk and said its my fault. If you want to stop you will stop, but if there is a silent voice in the back of your head saying keep doing what you are, you will never stop. Look at pot smokers, they is one of the only drugs that has no physical addiction to it, which is the reason so many smokers and drug addicts use as an excuse. I find it funny how mean people are to smokers, constant rude comments, and yet most people who smoke will never kill anyone but themselves with it, they wont smash your car, they wont steal your TV for a pack of smokes. So why is it ok to have no sympathy/empathy/whatever for them yet just fine to sit and say that drug addicts/alcoholics have a problem they cant help, they cant help themselves, they don't have a choice, they have a disease. As I pointed out before hemp is 100% choice, not even addicting like the other stuff out there and people don't treat them this way. I drink rarely because I like the taste, not to get drunk, I hate the feeling, I like to be in control. I quit smoking because one day I decided that it was a stupid habit and a waste of health and money. I didn't use any patches or gum or any of that crap, its all in your head, if a human really wants something they are in control of they can and will accomplish that goal. Autistics should be the last to let NTs use the stress excuse. I grew up poor, I suffered with sever migranes(I now know as sensory overload) once or twice a week for 13 years I would need a cold, dark and quite room for 8+ hours, I couldnt do all the things I loved to do half the time I was growing up because this. My real father died before I was 21, a drunk and a wasted life. And there is much worse that I dont care to go into, but here is a hint: male famly member, prison, lucky for me it didnt happen directly to me but close enough. I dont blame my parents or the government. I dont blame vacines or piss poor medical treatment in my area for letting me suffer with pain, pain most people cant even begin to understand, for years. These things where not even in my control, yet I dont blame them on anyone, ***t happens, this is life. I dont do drugs, my family doesnt do drugs, yet we have had all the things happen to us that people use as an excuse for drugs. You can pity these people all you want but I refuse to feel sorry for people who choose to be a threat to me and my families saftey, not to mention the money they cost us all. .... ok I think I am done now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 > So, we paid for her to go on the bus. It was last minute, but I feel good about trying to save the environment (personally I think it's too late) even though I had to give up some visiting time with my daughter. It's never too late to reduce your own impact and encourage others similarly. Just because a lot of damage has happened is no reason to abandon trying to improve things, or slow down the problem. Every choice that we make like that counts, down to whether we buy recycled toilet paper or switch off lights we're not using. Genyin -- " I know the answer! The answer lies within the heart of all mankind! The answer is twelve? I think I'm in the wrong building. " M. Schultz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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