'Wish were dead': Article on the McCarron Murder Trial

[Guest guest]

*'Wish were dead'*

Mother-in-law testifies McCarron claimed she would prefer daughter to have

cancer over autism

Thursday, January 10, 2008

*BY KEVIN SAMPIER*

of the Journal Star

*PEKIN* - McCarron wished her autistic daughter were dead, said she'd

rather have a child with cancer and even refused to call the girl by name

before killing her, McCarron's mother-in-law testified Wednesday.

" She said at least three to five times that I can recall, 'I really wish

were dead,' " McCarron's mother-in-law, Gail McCarron, said during the

third day of testimony in McCarron's murder trial in Tazewell County

Circuit Court.

She is charged with two counts of first-degree murder, one count of

obstructing justice and one count of concealment of a homicidal death after

telling police she suffocated her 3-year-old daughter, " "

McCarron, with a plastic garbage bag.

Gail McCarron, 's grandmother, said McCarron became very detached

from in the months leading up to the child's May 13, 2006, death.

" She wouldn't even call () by her name toward the end. She would just

call her 'the kid,' " she said.

Gail McCarron also told the jury McCarron suggested institutionalizing

the girl and said she would rather have a child with cancer than autism.

" once said to me 'if had cancer, I could deal with it. But I'll

never accept autism,' " Gail McCarron said.

During a telephone conversation with McCarron, Gail McCarron once

asked how long suffered after McCarron wrapped the bag around

the girl's head as she played with some toys.

" She said it was about two minutes, " Gail McCarron said. " At one point, she

said it was terrible. "

Prosecutors say McCarron, 39, of Morton also confessed to her husband,

her mother, her father-in-law, a friend from church and three times to

police.

Witnesses have said McCarron showed no emotion and shed no tears after

her daughter's death and spoke about it in a matter-of-fact manner before

fessing.

's aunt, McCarron, told jurors the rest of the family was

devastated when they heard the news of 's death.

She recalled trying to talk to McCarron to offer some words of

comfort.

" I said, 'I just can't believe this,' and she said, 'yeah, and after all we

did for the kid,' " McCarron testified.

Attorneys Marc Wolfe and Steve Baker have entered a not guilty by reason of

insanity defense for McCarron, which says she committed the crime but

shouldn't be held criminally responsible for it because of her mental state.

While prosecutors interviewed witnesses about specific events surrounding

the slaying, Wolfe and Baker spent little time addressing specifics

themselves.

During cross examination of witnesses, the defense repeatedly asked general

questions that often steered clear of the crime.

All of the witnesses who knew McCarron, a former pathologist, said she

was a woman obsessed with curing her daughter's autism and was a

perfectionist who would not accept the fact her daughter wasn't

" indistinguishable " from her peers.

" It was embarrassing for her, " McCarron said. " She said she didn't

want anyone saying her kid was slow. "

Witnesses have said she constantly criticized her daughter's progress and

the team of family members, therapists, teachers and care providers hired to

help her.

They said the topic of every conversation with her revolved around curing

's autism. Negativity and hatefulness were ceaseless when she discussed

the child, who they say she never hugged, kissed or praised after she was

diagnosed with autism.

" It was never good enough, " McCarron said. " She looked at as

a problem, and she got rid of her problem. There's nothing more to it than

that. "

Testimony is scheduled to continue at 9 a.m. today.

Sampier can be reached at 346-5300 or ksampier@....

------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

> *'Wish were dead'*

>

> Mother-in-law testifies McCarron claimed she would prefer daughter to have

> cancer over autism

It makes me go cold. How on earth was the child not removed from her

before she killed her? Why didn't a relative or friend report it to

social services? Poor poor little girl :-(

Genyin

--

" I know the answer! The answer lies within the heart of all mankind!

The answer is twelve? I think I'm in the wrong building. "

M. Schultz

[Guest guest]

I sure hope she'll get life in prison. How callous!

D.

[Guest guest]

I find it ironic that she's pleading insanity...

> I sure hope she'll get life in prison. How callous!

>

> D.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> I find it ironic that she's pleading insanity...

No kidding!

Trying to get mercy based on her mental state! She never felt mercy

for her daughter, I hope the jury feels the same way when it comes to

her (and sentences her to life).

a

[Guest guest]

> I find it ironic that she's pleading insanity...

I'm not so sure. I agree she did a terrible thing, a really dreadful

thing. But what bothers me is her obsession with the little girl's

autism. It may be that she is prone to obsessing and she can't help

it. It's a horrid state of mind - I get it myself. It gets worse and

worse, and if someone didn't know about it being a mental illness they

would just identify with all the thoughts and scenarios that come up.

I used to do so. It contributed in a big way to my 12 years of self

harming. Now that I know those kinds of thoughts for what they are,

and it's not just thoughts of harming or killing myself but the

obsessive mental states that lead up to those, I can to a large extent

divert myself or ride them out. Without medication I quickly get into

a horrible emotional state, so painful, and even with it I start off

down that road often and catch myself before it's too late.

So while I don't believe she killed the little girl in a moment of

insanity, she may have had a progressive and intense insanity for

quite a while.

One thing that makes me think this scenario is possible is that in the

articles I've seen the little girl's behaviour isn't mentioned.

Usually when a parent kills an autistic kid family and neighbours

speak up about how the kid was such hard work, screaming, breaking

things, being violent etc. I've not seen anything yet that decribes

the little girl, only things that describe the mother's obsession with

the autism.

Genyin

--

" I know the answer! The answer lies within the heart of all mankind!

The answer is twelve? I think I'm in the wrong building. "

M. Schultz

[Guest guest]

Mrs. McCarron said she killed so that could become a

" complete " person by going to Heaven where (presumably) Mrs. McCarron

believed that God would remove 's autism. Presumably, then, Mrs.

McCarron regards " incompleteness " as a good reason to kill someone you

love (so that God can " complete " the person you killed).

We see so many stories about parents of autistic kids who kill

(or try to kill) the kids they claim to " love, " that I wonder if any

parents have ever used the same " love " argument to justify going ahead

and killing any blind, deaf, lame, etc., children that they may happen

to have: ( " I love , but I hate his blindness, so I'm killing him

to send him back to Heaven where God will complete him by supplying

new eyeballs " ). You never hear of parents calling a blind or deaf kid

incomplete — why not, since at least one mom called her autistic kid

incomplete? What makes autism somehow " kill-worthy " in the viewpoint

of people who would shudder at the thought of killing blind people or

deaf people?

Kate Gladstone

[Guest guest]

It's ironic that she thinks her 'mental illness' should excuse her from

being removed from society, while she thought autism was grounds for

removing her daughter from society.

If she really believed that people with mental differences should not be in

mainstream society, shouldn't she allow herself to be locked up forever

where she could never harm another human being again?

This isn't about autism, or mental illness, or what passes for mental

illness in a court of law. It's about this woman lacking the intestinal

fortitude to accept the fate that she brought on herself. ly, it's

pathetic.

On Jan 11, 2008 1:35 PM, Kelsang Genyin

wrote:

> On 11/01/2008, De Carlo <ardecarlo@...<ardecarlo%40gmail.com>>

> wrote:

> > I find it ironic that she's pleading insanity...

>

> I'm not so sure. I agree she did a terrible thing, a really dreadful

> thing. But what bothers me is her obsession with the little girl's

> autism. It may be that she is prone to obsessing and she can't help

> it. It's a horrid state of mind - I get it myself. It gets worse and

> worse, and if someone didn't know about it being a mental illness they

> would just identify with all the thoughts and scenarios that come up.

> I used to do so. It contributed in a big way to my 12 years of self

> harming. Now that I know those kinds of thoughts for what they are,

> and it's not just thoughts of harming or killing myself but the

> obsessive mental states that lead up to those, I can to a large extent

> divert myself or ride them out. Without medication I quickly get into

> a horrible emotional state, so painful, and even with it I start off

> down that road often and catch myself before it's too late.

>

> So while I don't believe she killed the little girl in a moment of

> insanity, she may have had a progressive and intense insanity for

> quite a while.

>

> One thing that makes me think this scenario is possible is that in the

> articles I've seen the little girl's behaviour isn't mentioned.

> Usually when a parent kills an autistic kid family and neighbours

> speak up about how the kid was such hard work, screaming, breaking

> things, being violent etc. I've not seen anything yet that decribes

> the little girl, only things that describe the mother's obsession with

> the autism.

>

> Genyin

>

> --

> " I know the answer! The answer lies within the heart of all mankind!

> The answer is twelve? I think I'm in the wrong building. "

> M. Schultz

>

>

[Guest guest]

We don't know that this has any kind of religious aspect. Somehow I suspect

that this Mrs. McCarron's reasons were far more materialistic than

religious, but I don't know enough as to speculate on it...

> Mrs. McCarron said she killed so that could become a

> " complete " person by going to Heaven where (presumably) Mrs. McCarron

> believed that God would remove 's autism. Presumably, then, Mrs.

> McCarron regards " incompleteness " as a good reason to kill someone you

> love (so that God can " complete " the person you killed).

> We see so many stories about parents of autistic kids who kill

> (or try to kill) the kids they claim to " love, " that I wonder if any

> parents have ever used the same " love " argument to justify going ahead

> and killing any blind, deaf, lame, etc., children that they may happen

> to have: ( " I love , but I hate his blindness, so I'm killing him

> to send him back to Heaven where God will complete him by supplying

> new eyeballs " ). You never hear of parents calling a blind or deaf kid

> incomplete — why not, since at least one mom called her autistic kid

> incomplete? What makes autism somehow " kill-worthy " in the viewpoint

> of people who would shudder at the thought of killing blind people or

> deaf people?

>

>

>

> Kate Gladstone

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> I agree. I believe that the whole attitude of some misguided people that a

parent should feel shame over having a child such as is a cancer, and it

would be great to treat it. What attitudes contributed to this? What can we do

to change society's attitudes so that no mother will feel judged by having a

child like us?

Autistic community is working on it :-) And I don't feel anyone was

judging the mother before she killed her little girl anyway. Not for

the autism. I don't think it was shame that led to the murder. It was

horror of ASD, which comes from ignorance of different kinds of people

being equally valid and deserving of respect.

So how to stop people having a horror of autism? I guess we promote

the positive aspects and ways to help people deal with the negative

aspects without harming the people they want to help.

I've seen so much publicity around the MMR controversy describing

autism in horrible terms. This is *all* that most people know about

ASD. Don't forget that until 20 years or so back the majority of

people had never heard of autism. Then when they did start hearing of

it it was all in extreme and negative terms. People not involved with

autistic people have no other benchmark. I guess this mother never

knew anything good about autism and she obsessed on all the bad stuff

she thought she knew.

One of the things we can do is let others know we are autistic and

have good lives, valid, valuable lives. We can talk about apparently

" low functioning " ACs who have good lives too. We can talk about what

helps us, so that the problems encountered by AC folk are not seen as

overwhelming and without relief.

It's beginning to happen. Every time ACs answer comments in

newspapers and other media to counteract the sterotypes more people

get to see that it's not as black and white as they thought.

Genyin

--

" I know the answer! The answer lies within the heart of all mankind!

The answer is twelve? I think I'm in the wrong building. "

M. Schultz

[Guest guest]

Genyin,

You make me more aware that I have not come out yet, and kind of can't, until

I am in a better place financially- I worry about not having work if people find

out. If I go to work for a computer company, or get tenure sas a teacher, then

maybe... I would love to be more public, and share a bit. In a way, I do, with

a few close friends. Still, it is easy to dismiss me, if you do not knew me,

because I talked early. Do we need more people who talked late?

Kelsang Genyin wrote:

> I agree. I believe that the whole attitude of some misguided people that a

parent should feel shame over having a child such as is a cancer, and it

would be great to treat it. What attitudes contributed to this? What can we do

to change society's attitudes so that no mother will feel judged by having a

child like us?

Autistic community is working on it :-) And I don't feel anyone was

judging the mother before she killed her little girl anyway. Not for

the autism. I don't think it was shame that led to the murder. It was

horror of ASD, which comes from ignorance of different kinds of people

being equally valid and deserving of respect.

So how to stop people having a horror of autism? I guess we promote

the positive aspects and ways to help people deal with the negative

aspects without harming the people they want to help.

I've seen so much publicity around the MMR controversy describing

autism in horrible terms. This is *all* that most people know about

ASD. Don't forget that until 20 years or so back the majority of

people had never heard of autism. Then when they did start hearing of

it it was all in extreme and negative terms. People not involved with

autistic people have no other benchmark. I guess this mother never

knew anything good about autism and she obsessed on all the bad stuff

she thought she knew.

One of the things we can do is let others know we are autistic and

have good lives, valid, valuable lives. We can talk about apparently

" low functioning " ACs who have good lives too. We can talk about what

helps us, so that the problems encountered by AC folk are not seen as

overwhelming and without relief.

It's beginning to happen. Every time ACs answer comments in

newspapers and other media to counteract the sterotypes more people

get to see that it's not as black and white as they thought.

Genyin

--

" I know the answer! The answer lies within the heart of all mankind!

The answer is twelve? I think I'm in the wrong building. "

M. Schultz

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Guest guest]

my mom was saying during the holiday season, she doesn't believe I have

Autism, because she thinks Autistics are retarded, and just stay in a corner

by themselves screaming. She did say, there may be different degrees of

severity, but

my family thinks I'm too intelligent to have Autism, or Asperger's. They do

know I have

Interpersonal Communication issues, and various learning disabilities, mom

said I've

had those all my life, but she doesn't think its Autism or AS either one.

She is positive

I'm Autistic, but thinks of Autism as someone who can't speak at all, and

has behavioral

issues.

That could be the misconception people have, and why they don't take us

seriously.

because they don't fully understand it, that people with AS don't

necessarily have behavioral

issues like they seem to think.

Tom

> *'Wish were dead'*

>

> Mother-in-law testifies McCarron claimed she would prefer daughter to have

> cancer over autism

>

> Thursday, January 10, 2008

>

> *BY KEVIN SAMPIER*

>

> of the Journal Star

> *PEKIN* - McCarron wished her autistic daughter were dead, said

> she'd

> rather have a child with cancer and even refused to call the girl by name

> before killing her, McCarron's mother-in-law testified Wednesday.

>

> " She said at least three to five times that I can recall, 'I really wish

> were dead,' " McCarron's mother-in-law, Gail McCarron, said during

> the

> third day of testimony in McCarron's murder trial in Tazewell County

> Circuit Court.

>

> She is charged with two counts of first-degree murder, one count of

> obstructing justice and one count of concealment of a homicidal death

> after

> telling police she suffocated her 3-year-old daughter, " "

> McCarron, with a plastic garbage bag.

>

> Gail McCarron, 's grandmother, said McCarron became very

> detached

> from in the months leading up to the child's May 13, 2006, death.

>

> " She wouldn't even call () by her name toward the end. She would just

> call her 'the kid,' " she said.

>

> Gail McCarron also told the jury McCarron suggested

> institutionalizing

> the girl and said she would rather have a child with cancer than autism.

>

> " once said to me 'if had cancer, I could deal with it. But

> I'll

> never accept autism,' " Gail McCarron said.

>

> During a telephone conversation with McCarron, Gail McCarron once

> asked how long suffered after McCarron wrapped the bag around

> the girl's head as she played with some toys.

>

> " She said it was about two minutes, " Gail McCarron said. " At one point,

> she

> said it was terrible. "

>

> Prosecutors say McCarron, 39, of Morton also confessed to her

> husband,

> her mother, her father-in-law, a friend from church and three times to

> police.

>

> Witnesses have said McCarron showed no emotion and shed no tears

> after

> her daughter's death and spoke about it in a matter-of-fact manner before

> fessing.

>

> 's aunt, McCarron, told jurors the rest of the family was

> devastated when they heard the news of 's death.

>

> She recalled trying to talk to McCarron to offer some words of

> comfort.

>

> " I said, 'I just can't believe this,' and she said, 'yeah, and after all

> we

> did for the kid,' " McCarron testified.

>

> Attorneys Marc Wolfe and Steve Baker have entered a not guilty by reason

> of

> insanity defense for McCarron, which says she committed the crime

> but

> shouldn't be held criminally responsible for it because of her mental

> state.

>

> While prosecutors interviewed witnesses about specific events surrounding

> the slaying, Wolfe and Baker spent little time addressing specifics

> themselves.

>

> During cross examination of witnesses, the defense repeatedly asked

> general

> questions that often steered clear of the crime.

>

> All of the witnesses who knew McCarron, a former pathologist, said

> she

> was a woman obsessed with curing her daughter's autism and was a

> perfectionist who would not accept the fact her daughter wasn't

> " indistinguishable " from her peers.

>

> " It was embarrassing for her, " McCarron said. " She said she

> didn't

> want anyone saying her kid was slow. "

>

> Witnesses have said she constantly criticized her daughter's progress and

> the team of family members, therapists, teachers and care providers hired

> to

> help her.

>

> They said the topic of every conversation with her revolved around curing

> 's autism. Negativity and hatefulness were ceaseless when she

> discussed

> the child, who they say she never hugged, kissed or praised after she was

> diagnosed with autism.

>

> " It was never good enough, " McCarron said. " She looked at

> as

> a problem, and she got rid of her problem. There's nothing more to it than

> that. "

>

> Testimony is scheduled to continue at 9 a.m. today.

>

> Sampier can be reached at 346-5300 or

ksampier@...<ksampier%40pjstar.com>

> .

>

> ------------------------------

> <http://www.pjstar.com/php/index.php?/youpage/> Have a thought on this

> issue? Share it by leaving a message at or e-mailing

> youpage@... <youpage%40pjstar.com>. Comments may appear in the

> Journal Star's

> YOUPage<http://www.pjstar.com/php/index.php?/youpage/>on Friday.

>

>

[Guest guest]

> You make me more aware that I have not come out yet, and kind of can't, until

I am in a better place financially- I worry about not having work if people find

out. If I go to work for a computer company, or get tenure sas a teacher, then

maybe... I would love to be more public, and share a bit. In a way, I do, with

a few close friends. Still, it is easy to dismiss me, if you do not knew me,

because I talked early. Do we need more people who talked late?

You may not be able to " come out " now, but aren't people going to be

surprised when you do?! :-) They will see someone successful and

happy ... yet AC too. How could that be??? Way to get people

thinking! Right now you're putting in the groundwork.

Also now you can still participate by signing online petitions and so

on, even if you can't use your real name.

Regards talking late, I find that so much bull when it comes to

describing the " type " of autism a person has. I talked " on time " too.

But when the psychologist wanted to give me an AS dx I talked him out

of it because, from what I'd read, despite my verbal ability I

identified more with people who were described as LFA or HFA than

people who were described as AS. To me it's a myth we need to blow

out completely. Some people don't talk until they are seven but go on

to have a profile that would be descibed as AS-like. Some of those

people are now more able than I am - they may have paid employment,

families ...

But again if we're well enough read, people like Kamram Nazeer and

Lucy Blackman and others can be quoted. Nazeer looked much less able

than me at 4 years old yet now is independent, employed and a

successful author. I'm independent but not employed, and despite

encouragement from friends I doubt I will ever put my story in

publishable form.

Lets debunk some myths!

Genyin

--

" I know the answer! The answer lies within the heart of all mankind!

The answer is twelve? I think I'm in the wrong building. "

M. Schultz

[Guest guest]

> Hmmm ... we learn all too often of parents killing, or

> trying/threatening to kill, their autistic children: but I can't

> remember ever having heard about a mom or dad deciding to kill a blind

> child or a deaf child or a lame child in the name of making him/her

> " complete " or for any other similar reason. Can someone please explain

> why the kind of parent who objects to the alleged " incompleteness " of

> an autistic child (to the point of killing the person because of it)

> wouldn't also evaluate as kill-worthy/ " incomplete " /whatever a blind

> child or a deaf child? What (in some people's viewpoints) apparently

> makes autistic kids " okay to kill " but blind or deaf kids " not-okay to

> kill " ?

>

I remember reading a review awhile back of a book by a man trying to

decide whether to kill his quadriplegic son. He finally decided not to

because he saw his son laughing with friends, but apparently he came

far too close.

Another group at particularly high risk of being murdered by parents

are kids with attachment disorder.

Ettina

[Guest guest]

It's been a shock to me that when I did a search for disabled child

murders the majority seem to be autistic kids.

There are exceptions. There was a 4yo with CP killed by her mother:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23424688-details/Mother+charged+with+\

murder+after+walking+into+hospital+carrying+body+of+disabled+daughter/article.do

or: http://tinyurl.com/yqaa2z

and a 10yo with a degenerative condition killed by his father:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1922762,00.html

and a 12 or 13yo girl with CP killed by her father:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_Latimer

But far more autistics than any other reported group....

Genyin :-(

--

" I know the answer! The answer lies within the heart of all mankind!

The answer is twelve? I think I'm in the wrong building. "

M. Schultz