Re: learning foreign language

[Guest guest]

Re:

> I'm working on learning Cree and I'm having a bit of trouble.

> I talk very well in English, however my pattern of foreign language

> learning in some ways resembles how many autistics learn their first

> language. I find it very easy to echo phrases back, much harder to a)

> link the words to meaning and remember them to use in conversations.

> I can count to 10 in Cree. Sequences like that are easy, and once I've

> memorized them I can word on retrieving the words in a meaningful

> setting, like counting stuff. But it's stuff that doesn't make sense to

> put in a rote sequence that I have trouble with, or stuff where the

> sequence doesn't mean much. I also tend to be much better at speaking

> than understanding, except in languages closely related to English

> (like Dutch) where I can guess meanings from the sound of the word.

> I'm just wondering if any of you have any advice.

> Ettina

>

What you describe (which, as you say, resembles " how many autistics

learn their first language " ) also closely resembles how many autistic

AND non-autistic people learn their second, third, etc., languages.

Quite a few web-pages devote themselves entirely to tips for people

learning any language not natively acquired: have you tried

Google-searching for things like

how to learn a language

or

foreign language learning tips?

Kate Gladstone

[Guest guest]

> What you describe (which, as you say, resembles " how many autistics

> learn their first language " ) also closely resembles how many autistic

> AND non-autistic people learn their second, third, etc., languages.

>

But it's different somehow. I don't know how. I just know that when I'm

in a class learning a language with a bunch of NTs, I'm ahead at first

but then I fall way behind. I don't know why.

Ettina

[Guest guest]

Ettina,

I had this experience a long time ago, and now I know why. You are not

behind, but just appear to be, if you are having the experience that I did.

This is really an autistic spectrum thing: lack of central coherence. The NT

kids can pick up social things from context, and make quick and appropriate

answers to questions without knewing too many of the words in a language at all.

I had difficulty with that. the only way I could keep up was to literally know

all or nearly all of the words-=- even one missing word could easily give me a

lot more trouble than my NT classmates. i had to study many times aas hard. On

the ohter hand, my imitative skills gave me a far better accent, and much more

painlessly.

The other aspect that seemed to help is that in the final analysis, I appear

to have a much better memory for words and grammar than most of the NTs I have

encountered. I believe that if we stick it out long enough, we do quite well:

You will feel ahead at first, then behind, and then catch up and rocket way

ahead again. This kind of thing happened to me in one language where I stuck it

out. In another, I got behind, and did not think I had learned very much, but

when I traveled to that country, I learned that I actually understood quite a

bit.

There is one other ingredient that may affect different people in different

ways: If you have a strong negative attitude toward the culture that goes with

the language, then it will be much more difficult to learn it. Experimentally,

I read an article (can't remember where) that suggests that this is true on

average, regardless of who you are.

abnormaldiversity wrote:

> What you describe (which, as you say, resembles " how many autistics

> learn their first language " ) also closely resembles how many autistic

> AND non-autistic people learn their second, third, etc., languages.

>

But it's different somehow. I don't know how. I just know that when I'm

in a class learning a language with a bunch of NTs, I'm ahead at first

but then I fall way behind. I don't know why.

Ettina

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Guest guest]

Ettina,

I had this experience a long time ago, and now I know why. You are not

behind, but just appear to be, if you are having the experience that I did.

This is really an autistic spectrum thing: lack of central coherence. The NT

kids can pick up social things from context, and make quick and appropriate

answers to questions without knewing too many of the words in a language at all.

I had difficulty with that. the only way I could keep up was to literally know

all or nearly all of the words-=- even one missing word could easily give me a

lot more trouble than my NT classmates. i had to study many times aas hard. On

the ohter hand, my imitative skills gave me a far better accent, and much more

painlessly.

The other aspect that seemed to help is that in the final analysis, I appear

to have a much better memory for words and grammar than most of the NTs I have

encountered. I believe that if we stick it out long enough, we do quite well:

You will feel ahead at first, then behind, and then catch up and rocket way

ahead again. This kind of thing happened to me in one language where I stuck it

out. In another, I got behind, and did not think I had learned very much, but

when I traveled to that country, I learned that I actually understood quite a

bit.

There is one other ingredient that may affect different people in different

ways: If you have a strong negative attitude toward the culture that goes with

the language, then it will be much more difficult to learn it. Experimentally,

I read an article (can't remember where) that suggests that this is true on

average, regardless of who you are.

abnormaldiversity wrote:

> What you describe (which, as you say, resembles " how many autistics

> learn their first language " ) also closely resembles how many autistic

> AND non-autistic people learn their second, third, etc., languages.

>

But it's different somehow. I don't know how. I just know that when I'm

in a class learning a language with a bunch of NTs, I'm ahead at first

but then I fall way behind. I don't know why.

Ettina

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

,

Thank you, that really explains a lot! I live in Canada where as grade

school students, we have to take French (but I live in a near total

English province so there's no real opportunity to practice with others

who actually speak French on a daily basis once out of school). I did

have trouble in the same areas, but was good with accent. I don't

think the way in which we were taught was especially well thought out,

so most of us never really learned it, but I had more trouble with it

than most. Later, during high school, when we have the choice to drop

French, I did. During my last year, I took German. Same thing, I did

well at first, the teacher marveled at my ability to speak in a proper

German accent, then later I started to lose it! I passed (at about

70%), but because I took first year German in my last year of high

school, I never went further. And lately, I've been wanting to give it

a go with French again, due to the employment possibilities in this

country when you know French (plus I just like it as a language, even

if at present, I don't know what they are saying for the most part!).

Your explanation gives me some impetus to take that challenge on,

having the limitations explained!

a

> Ettina,

>

>

> I had this experience a long time ago, and now I know why. You are

> not behind, but just appear to be, if you are having the experience

> that I did. This is really an autistic spectrum thing: lack of central

> coherence. The NT kids can pick up social things from context, and

> make quick and appropriate answers to questions without knewing too

> many of the words in a language at all. I had difficulty with that.

> the only way I could keep up was to literally know all or nearly all

> of the words-=- even one missing word could easily give me a lot more

> trouble than my NT classmates. i had to study many times aas hard. On

> the ohter hand, my imitative skills gave me a far better accent, and

> much more painlessly.

>

> The other aspect that seemed to help is that in the final analysis, I

> appear to have a much better memory for words and grammar than most of

> the NTs I have encountered. I believe that if we stick it out long

> enough, we do quite well: You will feel ahead at first, then behind,

> and then catch up and rocket way ahead again. This kind of thing

> happened to me in one language where I stuck it out. In another, I got

> behind, and did not think I had learned very much, but when I traveled

> to that country, I learned that I actually understood quite a bit.

>

> There is one other ingredient that may affect different people in

> different ways: If you have a strong negative attitude toward the

> culture that goes with the language, then it will be much more

> difficult to learn it. Experimentally, I read an article (can't

> remember where) that suggests that this is true on average, regardless

> of who you are.

>

>

>

>

> abnormaldiversity wrote:

> > What you describe (which, as you say, resembles " how many autistics

> > learn their first language " ) also closely resembles how many

> autistic

> > AND non-autistic people learn their second, third, etc., languages.

> >

> But it's different somehow. I don't know how. I just know that when

> I'm

> in a class learning a language with a bunch of NTs, I'm ahead at first

> but then I fall way behind. I don't know why.

> Ettina

>

> ---------------------------------

> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo!

> Search.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Your weocome, a.

I took German in ninth grade,, and went till I graduated (I graduated a year

early), and then during my first two quarters in college. that is where I hit

the wall. For graduatre school, I took German as one of my required languages

and placed out on the test, and then took a reqading course which required me to

read a mathematics text in German that did not have that many equations in it.

Since the context was number theory, I found that suddenly central coherence was

not a problem: If the author said, form ___ it follows that ___, and I kenw

one blank, I could fill in the other. I also began to thing in whole

expressions like notwenig und hinreichend for necessary and sufficient, for

example, that are common ideas mathematics. Years later, I went to the airport

in Germany on the way to France, and discovered that I understood people

speaking German to me, amd was quite surprised. I would love to learn more of

it, too. No, I have no plans to slug through any of

Hans Asperger's papers LOL!-- but maybe it would be kind of cool if I ever

did!

" P.C. MacNeil " wrote:

,

Thank you, that really explains a lot! I live in Canada where as grade

school students, we have to take French (but I live in a near total

English province so there's no real opportunity to practice with others

who actually speak French on a daily basis once out of school). I did

have trouble in the same areas, but was good with accent. I don't

think the way in which we were taught was especially well thought out,

so most of us never really learned it, but I had more trouble with it

than most. Later, during high school, when we have the choice to drop

French, I did. During my last year, I took German. Same thing, I did

well at first, the teacher marveled at my ability to speak in a proper

German accent, then later I started to lose it! I passed (at about

70%), but because I took first year German in my last year of high

school, I never went further. And lately, I've been wanting to give it

a go with French again, due to the employment possibilities in this

country when you know French (plus I just like it as a language, even

if at present, I don't know what they are saying for the most part!).

Your explanation gives me some impetus to take that challenge on,

having the limitations explained!

a

> Ettina,

>

>

> I had this experience a long time ago, and now I know why. You are

> not behind, but just appear to be, if you are having the experience

> that I did. This is really an autistic spectrum thing: lack of central

> coherence. The NT kids can pick up social things from context, and

> make quick and appropriate answers to questions without knewing too

> many of the words in a language at all. I had difficulty with that.

> the only way I could keep up was to literally know all or nearly all

> of the words-=- even one missing word could easily give me a lot more

> trouble than my NT classmates. i had to study many times aas hard. On

> the ohter hand, my imitative skills gave me a far better accent, and

> much more painlessly.

>

> The other aspect that seemed to help is that in the final analysis, I

> appear to have a much better memory for words and grammar than most of

> the NTs I have encountered. I believe that if we stick it out long

> enough, we do quite well: You will feel ahead at first, then behind,

> and then catch up and rocket way ahead again. This kind of thing

> happened to me in one language where I stuck it out. In another, I got

> behind, and did not think I had learned very much, but when I traveled

> to that country, I learned that I actually understood quite a bit.

>

> There is one other ingredient that may affect different people in

> different ways: If you have a strong negative attitude toward the

> culture that goes with the language, then it will be much more

> difficult to learn it. Experimentally, I read an article (can't

> remember where) that suggests that this is true on average, regardless

> of who you are.

>

>

>

>

> abnormaldiversity wrote:

> > What you describe (which, as you say, resembles " how many autistics

> > learn their first language " ) also closely resembles how many

> autistic

> > AND non-autistic people learn their second, third, etc., languages.

> >

> But it's different somehow. I don't know how. I just know that when

> I'm

> in a class learning a language with a bunch of NTs, I'm ahead at first

> but then I fall way behind. I don't know why.

> Ettina

>

> ---------------------------------

> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo!

> Search.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I've never been able to learn a foreign language other then English.

I'm having a hard enough time learning braille

For instance, I have been trying to take braille classes online, and they

have these

audio tapes they make you listen to. I keep trying to tell my VR counselor,

that

I cannot comprehend what I listen to on these tapes. Its like, a couple

sentences yeah,

but I am unable to form a mental picture in my head of what the words are

saying to me.

As much of an issue I've had with this in reading books, listening is

actually more difficult

for me, as I have discovered I am strictly a visual learner, but visual

like in both pictures

and audio together (like videos and TV and stuff) otherwise I don't know

whats going on

and can't learn the material. I've never understood why.

but anyrate, because of that, I've never been able to learn another language

of any kind.

I learned the Spanish numbers 1-10 when I was a child, but I was not able to

remember

any of the language other then the basic numbers. Luckily I didn't have to

take a foreign

language in high school, otherwise I never would have passed that.

especially now that I'm approaching 40. Seems to be harder for me to learn

new things

as it was when I was younger. When I was younger, they used music to teach

me things,

but now I'm really struggling, because its like I can't seem to find a way

to learn.

Tom

> Ettina,

>

>

> I had this experience a long time ago, and now I know why. You are not

> behind, but just appear to be, if you are having the experience that I did.

> This is really an autistic spectrum thing: lack of central coherence. The NT

> kids can pick up social things from context, and make quick and appropriate

> answers to questions without knewing too many of the words in a language at

> all. I had difficulty with that. the only way I could keep up was to

> literally know all or nearly all of the words-=- even one missing word could

> easily give me a lot more trouble than my NT classmates. i had to study many

> times aas hard. On the ohter hand, my imitative skills gave me a far better

> accent, and much more painlessly.

>

> The other aspect that seemed to help is that in the final analysis, I

> appear to have a much better memory for words and grammar than most of the

> NTs I have encountered. I believe that if we stick it out long enough, we do

> quite well: You will feel ahead at first, then behind, and then catch up and

> rocket way ahead again. This kind of thing happened to me in one language

> where I stuck it out. In another, I got behind, and did not think I had

> learned very much, but when I traveled to that country, I learned that I

> actually understood quite a bit.

>

> There is one other ingredient that may affect different people in

> different ways: If you have a strong negative attitude toward the culture

> that goes with the language, then it will be much more difficult to learn

> it. Experimentally, I read an article (can't remember where) that suggests

> that this is true on average, regardless of who you are.

>

>

>

>

> abnormaldiversity <abnormaldiversity@...<abnormaldiversity%40yahoo.com>>

> wrote:

> > What you describe (which, as you say, resembles " how many autistics

> > learn their first language " ) also closely resembles how many autistic

> > AND non-autistic people learn their second, third, etc., languages.

> >

> But it's different somehow. I don't know how. I just know that when I'm

> in a class learning a language with a bunch of NTs, I'm ahead at first

> but then I fall way behind. I don't know why.

> Ettina

>

> ---------------------------------

> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Tom wrote:

>For instance, I have been trying to take braille classes online, and they

>have these

>audio tapes they make you listen to. I keep trying to tell my VR counselor,

>that

>I cannot comprehend what I listen to on these tapes. Its like, a couple

>sentences yeah,

>but I am unable to form a mental picture in my head of what the words are

>saying to me.

Yes, learning through listening is very hard. I do listen to audio

books for pleasure, but I can do it only if I'm doing something with

my hands at the same time. (I hand-sew bears.) If I try to listen

without doing something with my hands, my brain just drifts off. I

bought some language-learning CDs, and that worked for me if I

repeated them again and again and again and again and again and again

and again and again and again and again and again and again and

again and again and again and again and again and again and again and

again and again and again and again and again and again and again and

again and again and again and again, speaking each line in the pause

provided. I did not *feel* like I was learning, but over time I began

to be able to speak the lines more easily, and I found that the

sound of the lines stayed in my head for a while. But it sure was

slow!

Jane

[Guest guest]

Yikes, Jane! I can understand though

What you wrote just scared me a whole bunch when I applied it to myself. I am

the same way with auditory input. Visual however is something else. I see it

once and I have it memorized. I can read off pages that I have looked at once

the page has gone. If I see a phone number in writing - it's there. If I hear

it, I need to make mnemonics and go over and over it to remember it.

The scary part is that I realize that of my senses, (which hm....aren't the

best, common being the worst) I have had the most trouble with my vision -

repeated surgery and many ensuing blind spots etc. If I ever had to learn

braille by auditory cues I'd be in big trouble. Maybe I should get to it now!

But as you are saying, it sounds like auditory is the only way - but that makes

sense

Jo

Re: learning foreign language

Tom wrote:

>For instance, I have been trying to take braille classes online, and they

>have these

>audio tapes they make you listen to. I keep trying to tell my VR counselor,

>that

>I cannot comprehend what I listen to on these tapes. Its like, a couple

>sentences yeah,

>but I am unable to form a mental picture in my head of what the words are

>saying to me.

Yes, learning through listening is very hard. I do listen to audio

books for pleasure, but I can do it only if I'm doing something with

my hands at the same time. (I hand-sew bears.) If I try to listen

without doing something with my hands, my brain just drifts off. I

bought some language-learning CDs, and that worked for me if I

repeated them again and again and again and again and again and again

and again and again and again and again and again and again and

again and again and again and again and again and again and again and

again and again and again and again and again and again and again and

again and again and again and again, speaking each line in the pause

provided. I did not *feel* like I was learning, but over time I began

to be able to speak the lines more easily, and I found that the

sound of the lines stayed in my head for a while. But it sure was

slow!

Jane

[Guest guest]

>

> Ettina,

>

>

> I had this experience a long time ago, and now I know why. You

> are not behind, but just appear to be, if you are having the

> experience that I did. This is really an autistic spectrum thing:

> lack of central coherence. The NT kids can pick up social things

> from context, and make quick and appropriate answers to questions

> without knewing too many of the words in a language at all. I had

> difficulty with that. the only way I could keep up was to

> literally know all or nearly all of the words-=- even one missing

> word could easily give me a lot more trouble than my NT

> classmates. i had to study many times aas hard. On the ohter

> hand, my imitative skills gave me a far better accent, and much

> more painlessly.

>

I don't think that's what is going on for me. I may know the word in

isolation, but not in a sentence. I think with a lot of those words

it seems to take extra time to process what they mean, and in a

sentence I either recognize the entire sentence by rote or simply

can't process it unless it's repeated several times.

> The other aspect that seemed to help is that in the final

> analysis, I appear to have a much better memory for words and

> grammar than most of the NTs I have encountered. I believe that if

> we stick it out long enough, we do quite well: You will feel ahead

> at first, then behind, and then catch up and rocket way ahead

> again. This kind of thing happened to me in one language where I

> stuck it out. In another, I got behind, and did not think I had

> learned very much, but when I traveled to that country, I learned

> that I actually understood quite a bit.

>

I'm not like that, I think. I have a good rote auditory memory, but

just can't remember the connection between words and meaning very

well.

> There is one other ingredient that may affect different people in

> different ways: If you have a strong negative attitude toward the

> culture that goes with the language, then it will be much more

> difficult to learn it. Experimentally, I read an article (can't

> remember where) that suggests that this is true on average,

> regardless of who you are.

>

Not applicable in this case. I like Cree culture quite a bit. But if

I have a bad experience related to learning a certain language I tend

to loose interest in that language. One deaf person who got mad at me

for saying I didn't like the sign for autism (which portrays

autistics as cut off in their own world) turned me off of learning

sign awhile back.

Ettina

[Guest guest]

Re:

Re:

> ... One deaf person who got mad at me

> for saying I didn't like the sign for autism (which portrays

> autistics as cut off in their own world) turned me off of learning

> sign awhile back.

How sad ... though if you'd kept on learning Sign, you could ask deaf

autistics how they feel about their language's sign for " autism. " (I'd

really like to know!)

Kate Gladstone