Re: did anyone else grow up hearing that it is wrong to badmouth your family?

[Guest guest]

Yes I did all the time. Please understand that Bps and Narc want the adult child

to beleiev that the parent has absolute ownership of the child. They will refer

to any " authority " such as religion, etc to get the child to believe this. No

one " owns " but God and, by the way, God doesn't want to own us God wants

celebrate us.

They also will use this tactic to get you to hide the secret of their abuse

twoards you. Don't fall for it!! Another point, any relationship is based upon

mutual trust, love, respect, etc. The Bp and Narc parent are the ones that

didn't fulfill their end of the bargian yet, in typical Bp fashion, they deflect

blame and responsibility towards others. Pleaase understand that children aren't

weak or stupid, but they are in a terribly vunerable position. The Bp main goal

is to brainwash the child into being mentally/physically under the Bps control.

Again, please recognize it for the lie that it is as don't fall for it. You may

be concerned that the BP parent is using character assaisnation to damage your

reputation. Understand that they will do this to you for some time but will

eventually move on to another target (that is as long as you stay away from

them). Eventually other people will recognize their patterns of lying and will

no longer believe what the liar has stated.

mayalisa728 wrote:

I am thinking about this because I still have some guilt about posting

sometimes. In my family which was very religious it was considered a

sin to talk about your family in a negative way. It was very 'honor

your father and mother'. I can't count how many times it was thrown in

my face that my sister was better than me 'because she never talks bad

about the family'. I need to get past that there is something wrong, I

guess it is also a loyalty theme. I think that kind of thinking only

helps to keep the abuse perpetuating. Did anyone else hear this

growing up?

---------------------------------

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Hi Mayalisa,

My family is not religious, and we weren't explicitly told, but

somehow we all knew that we were not to talk about our family in a

negative way. That we were to not tell outsiders about the family

secret - nada's behaviour. As a kid I didn't know of bpd. And

sometimes I thought nada's behaviour was what every family

experienced. I knew some of her behaviour was bad (yelling,

hitting, throwing plates across the kitchen), but I guess I felt

scared to tell anyone because I was afraid she'd be really angry.

It was expected by nada that everyone would be loyal to her, do what

she wanted, otherwise she'd be angry and yell/criticise the person.

My first few posts I did feel nervous that I was doing something

wrong in talking about my family situation here. But now I'm loving

it. It is so good to be able to say what I really think to somebody.

I absolutely think that that kind of thinking ( " it's a sin to talk

about your family in a negative way " ) helps to keep the abuse

perpetuating.

For me, it seems then nada can keep living in her world where she is

a wonderful person, she's never questioned on that and so she can

feel good about herself (sort of). And for me as a kid, it meant

that I never sought outside adult help and so the situation

continued.

It's only now as I talk to my psychologist about what it was like,

and what I really think and feel, that I'm starting to live my own

life, create distance from nada, and distance myself from her

putdowns.

P.Bear.

[Guest guest]

Oh my goodness, yes. Except, of course, if my mother was in a mood

to badmouth a family member (especially those on my father's side of

the family), then it was perfectly OK.

I think that little rule is a way of making themselves " bulletproof "

as far as us actually talking about how they conduct themselves as

parents. I also think the " Honor thy Father and Mother " does not

translate to " Put up with WHATEVER they dish out and be their

victim " -- also, if they want to quote the bible, there are plenty

of verses about how THEY are to conduct themselves.

You can honor them by not being too vicious in talking about them

(once you've gotten all this off your chest, of course!), by getting

yourself emotionally healthy, etc.

My dad likes to currently throw that " Honor thy Father & Mother " in

my face, but he is strangely silent when I bring up that my mother's

miseries are not my fault, and that blaming me for them is wrong,

too. To deny the truth of the situation, and falsely blame me so

they can stay in denial, doesn't seem to jibe with the Bible, either!

They're supposed to do an honorable job as parents, too.

-Kyla

[Guest guest]

Mayalisa,

Oh yeah. It was wrong wrong wrong to let anyone know what was really

going on in the family. Never ever were you to talk about what

happened behind closed doors. You always put on your happy face and

showed the world that we were the perfect family.

Mercy

>

> I am thinking about this because I still have some guilt about

posting

> sometimes. In my family which was very religious it was considered

a

> sin to talk about your family in a negative way. It was very 'honor

> your father and mother'. I can't count how many times it was thrown

in

> my face that my sister was better than me 'because she never talks

bad

> about the family'. I need to get past that there is something

wrong, I

> guess it is also a loyalty theme. I think that kind of thinking

only

> helps to keep the abuse perpetuating. Did anyone else hear this

> growing up?

>

[Guest guest]

I think it should be honor your mother and father if they honor you.

Abuse is a deal breaker (Dr. Phil)

did anyone else grow up hearing that it is wrong to

badmouth your family?

I am thinking about this because I still have some guilt about posting

sometimes. In my family which was very religious it was considered a

sin to talk about your family in a negative way. It was very 'honor

your father and mother'. I can't count how many times it was thrown in

my face that my sister was better than me 'because she never talks bad

about the family'. I need to get past that there is something wrong, I

guess it is also a loyalty theme. I think that kind of thinking only

helps to keep the abuse perpetuating. Did anyone else hear this

growing up?

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total

Access, No Cost.

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[Guest guest]

Abuse, Addictions and Adultry,...all deal breakers.

Wilkinson wrote: I think it should be honor your

mother and father if they honor you.

Abuse is a deal breaker (Dr. Phil)

did anyone else grow up hearing that it is wrong to

badmouth your family?

I am thinking about this because I still have some guilt about posting

sometimes. In my family which was very religious it was considered a

sin to talk about your family in a negative way. It was very 'honor

your father and mother'. I can't count how many times it was thrown in

my face that my sister was better than me 'because she never talks bad

about the family'. I need to get past that there is something wrong, I

guess it is also a loyalty theme. I think that kind of thinking only

helps to keep the abuse perpetuating. Did anyone else hear this

growing up?

---------------------------------

You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total

Access, No Cost.

[Guest guest]

Call it family " spin "

I dislike secrets and if you haven't figured it out yet I am pretty frank with

my opinion. I hate lying with a passion because of this control thing because

that is what I see lying being for: control. Further if you don't talk about

what your experienced then how can you figure out whether or not it is normal?

They want you to keep it a secret because they know that what they are doing is

wrong. They just like the taste of power they have over their children who don't

know any better. They don't have that power anywhere else or with anyone else.

Re: did anyone else grow up hearing that it is

wrong to badmouth your family?

Hi Mayalisa,

My family is not religious, and we weren't explicitly told, but

somehow we all knew that we were not to talk about our family in a

negative way. That we were to not tell outsiders about the family

secret - nada's behaviour. As a kid I didn't know of bpd. And

sometimes I thought nada's behaviour was what every family

experienced. I knew some of her behaviour was bad (yelling,

hitting, throwing plates across the kitchen), but I guess I felt

scared to tell anyone because I was afraid she'd be really angry.

It was expected by nada that everyone would be loyal to her, do what

she wanted, otherwise she'd be angry and yell/criticise the person.

My first few posts I did feel nervous that I was doing something

wrong in talking about my family situation here. But now I'm loving

it. It is so good to be able to say what I really think to somebody.

I absolutely think that that kind of thinking ( " it's a sin to talk

about your family in a negative way " ) helps to keep the abuse

perpetuating.

For me, it seems then nada can keep living in her world where she is

a wonderful person, she's never questioned on that and so she can

feel good about herself (sort of). And for me as a kid, it meant

that I never sought outside adult help and so the situation

continued.

It's only now as I talk to my psychologist about what it was like,

and what I really think and feel, that I'm starting to live my own

life, create distance from nada, and distance myself from her

putdowns.

P.Bear.

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access now. Sweet deal for Yahoo!

users and friends.

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[Guest guest]

" Spin " , that is such a good word, along with the 'gatekeeper' thing. I

think you are right because the gatekeeper spins this stuff so no

information gets out except their version. I love your

frankness, there is a sense of strength in your posts that I've

noticed in other people here too.

[Guest guest]

You know, Kyla, I just thought of something when you said, " my

mother's miseries are not my fault " . I always have a bit of a reaction

when you talk about your situation with your parents, I find it

inconceivable that they would 'cut you off' like they have and every

time you post about it I feel anger on your behalf. I think if I was

in your shoes what I would want to say to my dad is " you know, I am

honoring my mother, because I am appealing to her higher self. I know

she is better than the way that she is behaving, and it is the

honorable side of her that I want to deal with. I choose not to deal

with her when she is dishonoring herself, because it would be morally

wrong for me to participate in her self-destruction and spitefulness

with her. " Or something like that. Because this IS what you are doing.

Thanks for your response, I just wanted to share that because that was

what jumped into my head when I read your post.

[Guest guest]

,

Thank you so much for sharing that quote. That is so true and as I

read it, it just made me hurt deep inside. I still try to honor them,

as best as I can, but without losing me. Something I always did in

the past. I am learning to honor myself first.

My personal recovery because of the abuse will last a very long

time, but at least I am recovering.

Thanks again for sharing that quote.

Malinda

I think it should be

honor your mother and father if they honor you.

> Abuse is a deal breaker (Dr. Phil)

>

>

>

> did anyone else grow up hearing that

it is wrong to badmouth your family?

>

> I am thinking about this because I still have some guilt about

posting

> sometimes. In my family which was very religious it was considered

a

> sin to talk about your family in a negative way. It was very 'honor

> your father and mother'. I can't count how many times it was thrown

in

> my face that my sister was better than me 'because she never talks

bad

> about the family'. I need to get past that there is something

wrong, I

> guess it is also a loyalty theme. I think that kind of thinking

only

> helps to keep the abuse perpetuating. Did anyone else hear this

> growing up?

>

> ---------------------------------

> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of

Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

>

>

[Guest guest]

mayalisa -- thanks so much for responding and being so supportive.

It obviously still grates on me that they have pushed me out and are

blaming me, constantly waiting on me to make the next move. It was

a huge relief to me emotionally when I declared that I wasn't

responsible for my mother's miseries. So many years went by and

that thought never occurred to me. I always thought I had to hold

it all up.

But, thanks for noticing and for your words of support.

{hugs}

Kyla

>

> You know, Kyla, I just thought of something when you said, " my

> mother's miseries are not my fault " . I always have a bit of a

reaction

> when you talk about your situation with your parents, I find it

> inconceivable that they would 'cut you off' like they have and

every

> time you post about it I feel anger on your behalf. I think if I

was

> in your shoes what I would want to say to my dad is " you know, I

am

> honoring my mother, because I am appealing to her higher self. I

know

> she is better than the way that she is behaving, and it is the

> honorable side of her that I want to deal with. I choose not to

deal

> with her when she is dishonoring herself, because it would be

morally

> wrong for me to participate in her self-destruction and

spitefulness

> with her. " Or something like that. Because this IS what you are

doing.

> Thanks for your response, I just wanted to share that because that

was

> what jumped into my head when I read your post.

>

[Guest guest]

Mayalisa,

I feel terrible guilt talking about what went on in my family.

Friends I have had since childhood understand enough that they knew

things were not good at my house, but I still didn't share with

anyone how bad things were or what was really going on. This group

has been life changing for me because I realize other people are

dealing with the same issues I am and because I can talk about the

past and the present without worrying about running in to anyone at

the grocery store. Even so, I feel guilty posting this stuff,

exposing family secrets. Well, I feel guilty and free all at the

same time. One of the few times I stood up for myself when I was a

kid, was when my nada " overheard " me on the phone with my dad sharing

something crazy she had done. Nada did not feel honored. Nada and

stepdad restricted me from using the phone to call my dad again and

whatever other punishment because they " expected some loyalty. " I

told them if they expected loyalty, they should buy a dog. The look

on their faces still makes me laugh. But I did know better than

to " share " and I certainly stopped letting my dad in on what was

really happenning.

Bunny

>

> I am thinking about this because I still have some guilt about

posting

> sometimes. In my family which was very religious it was considered

a

> sin to talk about your family in a negative way. It was very 'honor

> your father and mother'. I can't count how many times it was thrown

in

> my face that my sister was better than me 'because she never talks

bad

> about the family'. I need to get past that there is something

wrong, I

> guess it is also a loyalty theme. I think that kind of thinking

only

> helps to keep the abuse perpetuating. Did anyone else hear this

> growing up?

>

[Guest guest]

" Nada did not feel honored " . That made me laugh, even though it's a

very serious topic. Thanks for the levity.

I know about ten years ago I talked to a high school boyfriend who

made an oblique reference to my " situation " as he put it, referring to

my home life. I don't know why, but I still was and am pretty shocked

that anyone else noticed things were not rosy since according to my

parents and siblings everything was just hunky-dory.

[Guest guest]

I love it buy a dog LOL

-- In WTOAdultChildren1 , " bunny.montgomery "

wrote:

>

> Mayalisa,

>

> I feel terrible guilt talking about what went on in my family.

> Friends I have had since childhood understand enough that they knew

> things were not good at my house, but I still didn't share with

> anyone how bad things were or what was really going on. This group

> has been life changing for me because I realize other people are

> dealing with the same issues I am and because I can talk about the

> past and the present without worrying about running in to anyone at

> the grocery store. Even so, I feel guilty posting this stuff,

> exposing family secrets. Well, I feel guilty and free all at the

> same time. One of the few times I stood up for myself when I was a

> kid, was when my nada " overheard " me on the phone with my dad sharing

> something crazy she had done. Nada did not feel honored. Nada and

> stepdad restricted me from using the phone to call my dad again and

> whatever other punishment because they " expected some loyalty. " I

> told them if they expected loyalty, they should buy a dog. The look

> on their faces still makes me laugh. But I did know better than

> to " share " and I certainly stopped letting my dad in on what was

> really happenning.

>

> Bunny

>

>

> >

> > I am thinking about this because I still have some guilt about

> posting

> > sometimes. In my family which was very religious it was considered

> a

> > sin to talk about your family in a negative way. It was very 'honor

> > your father and mother'. I can't count how many times it was thrown

> in

> > my face that my sister was better than me 'because she never talks

> bad

> > about the family'. I need to get past that there is something

> wrong, I

> > guess it is also a loyalty theme. I think that kind of thinking

> only

> > helps to keep the abuse perpetuating. Did anyone else hear this

> > growing up?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Mayalisa-

I have seen both sides of that coin. On one hand Nada would say

things like my grandmother (her Mother-in-law) was always trying

to " hide " things that happened in the family. That was true to a

point...from what I understand, there was an alcoholic great-Uncle

that my grandmother apparently just wrote off. The discovery that he

existed occurred at a funeral when one of my grandmother's siblings

was talking about him.

But then, my parents were secretive with their own immediate family

(siblings). At various points in time, my Nada worked full-time.

For A LONG time it was a big secret, but just from my Father's

family. (So Nada's brother knew.) One year at Thanksgiving I got in

HUGE trouble because I asked Nada if she had to work the Friday after

Thanksgiving forgetting that my Aunt didn't know she worked. When

everyone left, my dad's remark was, " Good Job Big Mouth. "

In my dad's family, I am sure secrets abound...not just because of

the great-Uncle thing. Actually, before Christmas when my parents

went especially loony, I had finally had enough and sent an e-mail to

my Aunts and Uncles on my Dad's side of the family. I started by

forwarding the e-mail that my parents sent to me and explaining their

horrible behavior leading up to my wedding and the whole first year

of my marriage. In the e-mail they said I ruined the

holidays " again " and that they didn't have a daughter if I continued

to associate with my one Uncle (painted black) who is Nada's

brother. The relatives who live in the same state all contacted me

and basically said not to let my parents ruin my holiday. They had

all had their own run in with Nada over the years...so they weren't

entirely surprised. (My Uncle's response, " I could have told you

that broad was crazy 40 years ago.) My one Aunt who is a nun who

runs a battered women's shelter in Milwaukee and has a degree in some

kind of therapy has never acknowledged that I sent the e-mail. Not

even when she came to visit my house during the Christmas holiday!

The Aunt that lived out of state felt I should have kept it between

my parents. Yes...let's shove it under the rug yet again. I respect

her opinion no matter how wrong I think it is. I came to find out

after the fact that Nada had been talking about me behind my back so

I no longer feel the slightest bit of guilt.

We are all experts at feeling guilt. That's how we were programmed

by our Nada's and Fada's. I think most of us were schooled enough

about the pretending everything was a certain way when we knew all

along it wasn't. I did not feel " good " about sharing with my

relatives, but felt given the tone of my parents letter to me and

their completely off the wall behavior, I had reached the point where

I needed to call for help in some manner. When I sent out the note,

I also didn't realize I was dealing with BPD. In some ways, it

surprises me that reading my parents words did not have as much an

impact as I thought it would. However, I think it was just my lack

of perspective in not realizing just how dysfunctional my dad's

family of origin was as well. It's probably not a coincidence that

he married a nut. Sadly, I think my brother has likely done the same

thing. They live in another state and so it doesn't impact me nearly

the way it would if he lived here.

Anyhow...Mayalisa...I can understand the guilt. Part of it is we

were made to feel responsible for everything...so when we place blame

where it actually belongs, it makes us uncomfortable. But I have

found that the more I speak the truth, the better I feel. That

saying, " The truth will set you free " came to be a for a reason.

Take care-

JJFan

>

> I am thinking about this because I still have some guilt about

posting

> sometimes. In my family which was very religious it was considered

a

> sin to talk about your family in a negative way. It was very 'honor

> your father and mother'. I can't count how many times it was thrown

in

> my face that my sister was better than me 'because she never talks

bad

> about the family'. I need to get past that there is something

wrong, I

> guess it is also a loyalty theme. I think that kind of thinking

only

> helps to keep the abuse perpetuating. Did anyone else hear this

> growing up?

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I've heard and obeyed the rule of secrecy and discretion over

and over again. The worst scenes of violence against me were my

mother's AND my father's retaliation after I had confided in someone

(because I sometimes did, I felt I could not take it anymore and

could not be with all this alone). Or sometimes my mother just

suspected that I did, when I became too close with a friend or so,

and she needed to cut ties. I was also very convinced it was a very

wrong thing to do, I interiorized this dictum deeply and only with a

lot of effort and very much patience of my therapist was I able to

let go of this feeling -- at least enough to talk and tell my story.

In Flemish there are some proverbs about badmouthing that I heard and

was made to quote again and again: (I try to translate): " whoever

damages his nose, damages his face. " Meaning : it will all fall on

your own head if you badmouth the family. And " hanging out the dirty

laundry " was one of the capital crimes in our household.

This unconditional loyalty and secrecy had a devastating effect on me

and caused a deep scar on my soul. When I was 20, I confided in a

Christian counselor (age 33 or so) at the university. It turned out

that she was absolutely not someone to be trusted, she abused of my

longing for comfort and affirmation and she manipulated me enormously

into doing all kinds of things I did not want and did not feel

comfortable about physically and sexually -- and the " friendship "

and " therapy " (the boundaries there were blurred) ended when she

raped me. I kept silent about it for 8 years and blamed myself deep

down: I saw this horrible thing that happened to me as a logical

consequence of the fact that I had trusted someone with information

about our family and my mother. In my eyes, I was more the criminal

than this woman.

This is just an example of how deeply I was influenced by the " honor

thy father and thy mother " ...Still very angry when I write this down.

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Katrina-

I am SO sorry for you having to go through that.

But I did want to share with you some additional context for

the " honor thy father " quote:

Leviticus 19:3. ...Honor thy father and thy mother; which is the

first commandment with promise; That it may be well with thee, and

thou mayest live long on the earth.

(And the part our parents NEVER read:)

" And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them

up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, "

This line is also requoted in Ephesians (6:4) and says, " Fathers, do

not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the

discipline and instruction of the Lord. "

Our pastor had a translation that he used that said, " Parents don't

frustrate your children. " How many of us KOs have been

beyond " frustrated " with our parents?

My parents very much used the " respect " card when I was growing up.

But they NEVER modeled respectfulness...not to one another and not to

my brother or I. The home was meant to be the first place we learned

about God's unconditional love. But in our case, our BPD and co-

dependent parent twisted this " honor thy father " into something it

was never meant to be and it changed how we viewed ourselves.

It was never your " fault " that you were abused by someone you

trusted. It just shows the depth of the dysfunction you grew up with

that you would have ever thought otherwise...no wonder it still makes

you feel angry.

If you haven't ever read the book " Toxic Parents, " I think you might

find it especially helpful. I was first recommended this book over

four years ago by a therapist. However, I wasn't quite ready

to " hear " the message, so I put it down. I recently re-read it. I

still have A LOT of work to do getting over my own " Toxic Parents. "

But I feel good that I have gotten to the place where I can work on

me and stop feeling like there is something I need to fix because I

don't interact with them in what " they " feel is a positive manner.

Take care and many hugs!

JJFan

>

> I kept silent about it for 8 years and blamed myself deep

> down: I saw this horrible thing that happened to me as a logical

> consequence of the fact that I had trusted someone with information

> about our family and my mother. In my eyes, I was more the criminal

> than this woman.

>

> This is just an example of how deeply I was influenced by

the " honor

> thy father and thy mother " ...Still very angry when I write this

down.

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I heard that often. Another quote Nada liked to use was " Well, you wouldn't

treat your friends this way " . That was meant to infer that I was being fake to

my friends and was a phony person. Well, my friends would never scream

obscenities at me, go through and destroy my personal belongings, throw me down

the stairs for fun, and beta me physically and psychologically without any

provocation. Further, they won't have fake heart attacks in front of terrified

children, won't launch smear campaigns against people for fun, and won't act

like a narcissistic sociopath.

Bps use anything they can to twist into propaganda to use for their own

benefit. Don't fall for it. Their words scarred us as children because we lacked

the power to take ourselves out of a bad situation and, being children, we

didn't have the life experience to separate the truth from their lies. I would

just ignore those comments now.

Here's a few other Nada quotes that I'd like your opinion on. I give them as

another example of the absolute crap these BPs attempt to get others to believe.

Would really like your opinions on them.

1) " I'm not a demonstrative person " . This is what Nada said when we confronted

her on the fact that, even though she wants all the love/gestures/affection in

the world, she NEVER returned it to any of us. She said that to again make her

behavior blamed on something outside her control that she just can't change.

2) " I was born in the post depression era " . This one is so ridiculous its

funny. She actually blames and entire lifetime of behavior on her date of

birth?! It would be laughable if it weren't so warped.

3) " I'm the marty because I had so many children " . Again, she is the victim of

" circumstances outside her control " . She blames a bunch of kids for being born.

Here's the fact, if you don't want kids don't have them. If you do have them

don't blame them for being born.

jjfan42 wrote:

Katrina-

I am SO sorry for you having to go through that.

But I did want to share with you some additional context for

the " honor thy father " quote:

Leviticus 19:3. ...Honor thy father and thy mother; which is the

first commandment with promise; That it may be well with thee, and

thou mayest live long on the earth.

(And the part our parents NEVER read:)

" And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them

up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, "

This line is also requoted in Ephesians (6:4) and says, " Fathers, do

not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the

discipline and instruction of the Lord. "

Our pastor had a translation that he used that said, " Parents don't

frustrate your children. " How many of us KOs have been

beyond " frustrated " with our parents?

My parents very much used the " respect " card when I was growing up.

But they NEVER modeled respectfulness...not to one another and not to

my brother or I. The home was meant to be the first place we learned

about God's unconditional love. But in our case, our BPD and co-

dependent parent twisted this " honor thy father " into something it

was never meant to be and it changed how we viewed ourselves.

It was never your " fault " that you were abused by someone you

trusted. It just shows the depth of the dysfunction you grew up with

that you would have ever thought otherwise...no wonder it still makes

you feel angry.

If you haven't ever read the book " Toxic Parents, " I think you might

find it especially helpful. I was first recommended this book over

four years ago by a therapist. However, I wasn't quite ready

to " hear " the message, so I put it down. I recently re-read it. I

still have A LOT of work to do getting over my own " Toxic Parents. "

But I feel good that I have gotten to the place where I can work on

me and stop feeling like there is something I need to fix because I

don't interact with them in what " they " feel is a positive manner.

Take care and many hugs!

JJFan

>

> I kept silent about it for 8 years and blamed myself deep

> down: I saw this horrible thing that happened to me as a logical

> consequence of the fact that I had trusted someone with information

> about our family and my mother. In my eyes, I was more the criminal

> than this woman.

>

> This is just an example of how deeply I was influenced by

the " honor

> thy father and thy mother " ...Still very angry when I write this

down.

> Katrina

>

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Quote #2 reminds me of something my mom used to scream at me: " Don't

you know that we're in a recession?!? " Wha? I remember I almost

laughed at her the first time she screamed that at me--she and my dad

both had jobs, neither of them invested in the stock market, and

there weren't any significant money issues at hand. Ah, nada logic.

But to address your request:

1. " I'm not a demonstrative person. " = " I am am genetically

predetermined to be cold and withdrawn and therefore unable to meet

your emotional needs. Nothing I can do about it. "

2. " I was born in the post-depression era. " = " I couldn't think of

any better reason to dodge responsibility on this one. "

3. " I'm the martyr because I had so many children. " = " I'm not

responsible for the choices I made so therefore it's your problem. "

>

> Yes, I heard that often. Another quote Nada liked to use was " Well,

you wouldn't treat your friends this way " . That was meant to infer

that I was being fake to my friends and was a phony person. Well, my

friends would never scream obscenities at me, go through and destroy

my personal belongings, throw me down the stairs for fun, and beta me

physically and psychologically without any provocation. Further, they

won't have fake heart attacks in front of terrified children, won't

launch smear campaigns against people for fun, and won't act like a

narcissistic sociopath.

>

> Bps use anything they can to twist into propaganda to use for

their own benefit. Don't fall for it. Their words scarred us as

children because we lacked the power to take ourselves out of a bad

situation and, being children, we didn't have the life experience to

separate the truth from their lies. I would just ignore those

comments now.

>

> Here's a few other Nada quotes that I'd like your opinion on. I

give them as another example of the absolute crap these BPs attempt

to get others to believe. Would really like your opinions on them.

>

> 1) " I'm not a demonstrative person " . This is what Nada said when

we confronted her on the fact that, even though she wants all the

love/gestures/affection in the world, she NEVER returned it to any of

us. She said that to again make her behavior blamed on something

outside her control that she just can't change.

>

> 2) " I was born in the post depression era " . This one is so

ridiculous its funny. She actually blames and entire lifetime of

behavior on her date of birth?! It would be laughable if it weren't

so warped.

>

> 3) " I'm the marty because I had so many children " . Again, she is

the victim of " circumstances outside her control " . She blames a bunch

of kids for being born. Here's the fact, if you don't want kids don't

have them. If you do have them don't blame them for being born.

>

[Guest guest]

the thing is, people who meet those criteria she posted generally

don't know it. It sounds like she knows something is wrong and she is

just regurgitating popular psychology tidbits to make excuses. Like

something she read in readers digest or something.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for replying...your words helped alot. The fact is that, being the

Narc Bp that she is, she will use any bullshit fallacy to both get attention and

dodge blame when confronted with her behavior. Her fallacies are ridiculously

ignorant. She has always prided herself on being some great manipulator but she

made the fatal flaw that all con artists must avoid. Mainly, she thinks that the

propaganda that worked when I was a defensless 5 year old will actually work

today. Stupid!

writermanque wrote: Quote #2 reminds me of

something my mom used to scream at me: " Don't

you know that we're in a recession?!? " Wha? I remember I almost

laughed at her the first time she screamed that at me--she and my dad

both had jobs, neither of them invested in the stock market, and

there weren't any significant money issues at hand. Ah, nada logic.

But to address your request:

1. " I'm not a demonstrative person. " = " I am am genetically

predetermined to be cold and withdrawn and therefore unable to meet

your emotional needs. Nothing I can do about it. "

2. " I was born in the post-depression era. " = " I couldn't think of

any better reason to dodge responsibility on this one. "

3. " I'm the martyr because I had so many children. " = " I'm not

responsible for the choices I made so therefore it's your problem. "

>

> Yes, I heard that often. Another quote Nada liked to use was " Well,

you wouldn't treat your friends this way " . That was meant to infer

that I was being fake to my friends and was a phony person. Well, my

friends would never scream obscenities at me, go through and destroy

my personal belongings, throw me down the stairs for fun, and beta me

physically and psychologically without any provocation. Further, they

won't have fake heart attacks in front of terrified children, won't

launch smear campaigns against people for fun, and won't act like a

narcissistic sociopath.

>

> Bps use anything they can to twist into propaganda to use for

their own benefit. Don't fall for it. Their words scarred us as

children because we lacked the power to take ourselves out of a bad

situation and, being children, we didn't have the life experience to

separate the truth from their lies. I would just ignore those

comments now.

>

> Here's a few other Nada quotes that I'd like your opinion on. I

give them as another example of the absolute crap these BPs attempt

to get others to believe. Would really like your opinions on them.

>

> 1) " I'm not a demonstrative person " . This is what Nada said when

we confronted her on the fact that, even though she wants all the

love/gestures/affection in the world, she NEVER returned it to any of

us. She said that to again make her behavior blamed on something

outside her control that she just can't change.

>

> 2) " I was born in the post depression era " . This one is so

ridiculous its funny. She actually blames and entire lifetime of

behavior on her date of birth?! It would be laughable if it weren't

so warped.

>

> 3) " I'm the marty because I had so many children " . Again, she is

the victim of " circumstances outside her control " . She blames a bunch

of kids for being born. Here's the fact, if you don't want kids don't

have them. If you do have them don't blame them for being born.

>

---------------------------------

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at no cost.

[Guest guest]

, and others, one of the items in this sad list of abusive

actions from your mother against you, jumped out at me... I hope I don't

touch a too sensitive nerve, but I mean this terrible " throw me down the

stairs " --one of my most serious traumas is exactly that, my mother tried

to strangle me in front of the stairs, upstairs, and I was so terrified

that I couldn't speak after this for days and acted like a zombie, until

my supervisor--I was already an adult--finally " pulled the story out of

me " . That was the day I decided to make an appointment with a therapist

'for real'. While working through that event, I remembered other scenes

involving a raging mother, the stairs, and me as a little child. And the

terror I felt in me. The fear that she was going to kill me (which she

was screaming sometimes while beating me or worse) I still lack words to

say something sensible about it, it is beyond... just wanted to share

this, and hear if other have similar experiences with this...

Katrina

Well, my friends would never scream obscenities at me, go through and

destroy my personal belongings, throw me down the stairs for fun, and

beta me physically and psychologically without any provocation. Further,

they won't have fake heart attacks in front of terrified children, won't

launch smear campaigns against people for fun, and won't act like a

narcissistic sociopath.

[Guest guest]

Thank you all for responding. It helps my healing to hear your kind words. I

have to digest some of this before I can post again later.

writermanque wrote: Quote #2 reminds me of

something my mom used to scream at me: " Don't

you know that we're in a recession?!? " Wha? I remember I almost

laughed at her the first time she screamed that at me--she and my dad

both had jobs, neither of them invested in the stock market, and

there weren't any significant money issues at hand. Ah, nada logic.

But to address your request:

1. " I'm not a demonstrative person. " = " I am am genetically

predetermined to be cold and withdrawn and therefore unable to meet

your emotional needs. Nothing I can do about it. "

2. " I was born in the post-depression era. " = " I couldn't think of

any better reason to dodge responsibility on this one. "

3. " I'm the martyr because I had so many children. " = " I'm not

responsible for the choices I made so therefore it's your problem. "

>

> Yes, I heard that often. Another quote Nada liked to use was " Well,

you wouldn't treat your friends this way " . That was meant to infer

that I was being fake to my friends and was a phony person. Well, my

friends would never scream obscenities at me, go through and destroy

my personal belongings, throw me down the stairs for fun, and beta me

physically and psychologically without any provocation. Further, they

won't have fake heart attacks in front of terrified children, won't

launch smear campaigns against people for fun, and won't act like a

narcissistic sociopath.

>

> Bps use anything they can to twist into propaganda to use for

their own benefit. Don't fall for it. Their words scarred us as

children because we lacked the power to take ourselves out of a bad

situation and, being children, we didn't have the life experience to

separate the truth from their lies. I would just ignore those

comments now.

>

> Here's a few other Nada quotes that I'd like your opinion on. I

give them as another example of the absolute crap these BPs attempt

to get others to believe. Would really like your opinions on them.

>

> 1) " I'm not a demonstrative person " . This is what Nada said when

we confronted her on the fact that, even though she wants all the

love/gestures/affection in the world, she NEVER returned it to any of

us. She said that to again make her behavior blamed on something

outside her control that she just can't change.

>

> 2) " I was born in the post depression era " . This one is so

ridiculous its funny. She actually blames and entire lifetime of

behavior on her date of birth?! It would be laughable if it weren't

so warped.

>

> 3) " I'm the marty because I had so many children " . Again, she is

the victim of " circumstances outside her control " . She blames a bunch

of kids for being born. Here's the fact, if you don't want kids don't

have them. If you do have them don't blame them for being born.

>

---------------------------------

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Total Access now

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry that happened Katrina. What bothers me even more is that she tried to

do that to you as an adult as well. May sound trite but my Nada wouldn't lay a

hand on me now (not that I'm around her to give her the opportunity). It's just

that she knows that, if she ever laid a hand on me now, I would snap her neck

without regret (sounds violent but I am through allowing her physical abuse).

Your Nada obviously stills thinks she can assault without consequence. Are you

still in contact with her? Please don't view this as blaming the victim (some

people blame the attacked becasue they didn't file police charges but few

understand the paralysis that can occur from trauma) but have you considered

having her arrested for assault? Apparently she needs to grow a clue and realize

that she CANNOT touch you in that manner EVER AGAIN.

Hope you don't think I'm being nosey but I would like to know the dynamics of

your dealings with her now. I understand if that is too personal so won't press

the issue. Am VERY glad that you are in therapy now. Good for you to know that

you deserve the health that a good therapist can lead you to.

" katrina.berries " wrote:

, and others, one of the items in this sad list of abusive

actions from your mother against you, jumped out at me... I hope I don't

touch a too sensitive nerve, but I mean this terrible " throw me down the

stairs " --one of my most serious traumas is exactly that, my mother tried

to strangle me in front of the stairs, upstairs, and I was so terrified

that I couldn't speak after this for days and acted like a zombie, until

my supervisor--I was already an adult--finally " pulled the story out of

me " . That was the day I decided to make an appointment with a therapist

'for real'. While working through that event, I remembered other scenes

involving a raging mother, the stairs, and me as a little child. And the

terror I felt in me. The fear that she was going to kill me (which she

was screaming sometimes while beating me or worse) I still lack words to

say something sensible about it, it is beyond... just wanted to share

this, and hear if other have similar experiences with this...

Katrina

Well, my friends would never scream obscenities at me, go through and

destroy my personal belongings, throw me down the stairs for fun, and

beta me physically and psychologically without any provocation. Further,

they won't have fake heart attacks in front of terrified children, won't

launch smear campaigns against people for fun, and won't act like a

narcissistic sociopath.

---------------------------------

You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total

Access, No Cost.

[Guest guest]

One other thing...I have had experiences like that and they still terrify me.

For example: I still have a terror of suffocation. Beginning at the age of 6,

my Nada would, without provocation, order me to go outside with her. This always

happened in the winter time. She would kick my legs out from underneath me and

then push me backwards until I was flat on my back in the snow. Then she would

straddle my chest (she out weighed me by a good 100+ lbs or so) and then slam

fistfuls of snow both down my throat and up my nose. She would do this in broad

daylight behind a group of bushes that lined the walkway of the house. Then as

abruptly as she attacked, she would jump off me, go into the house and leave me

lying in the snow, choking and terrified. She did this at least twice every

winter and I began to feel dread every time the seasons changed. I remember the

kids at school talking about how they loved the winter time becasue they just

couldn't wait for Christmas. I remember hoping that she wouldn't suffocate me

for so long that I actually died. Those

were my hopes for the season.

To this day I have a fear of suffocation. One of my friends and I were

wrestling around one day and pinned my arms at my side and sat on my chest (this

happened as an adult). I had a panic attack and begged him to get off of me. He

thought I was just kidding around until I began screaming that he was killing

me. He finally jumped off me and just looked at me like I was some kind of

alien.

Heon wrote:

I'm sorry that happened Katrina. What bothers me even more is that she

tried to do that to you as an adult as well. May sound trite but my Nada

wouldn't lay a hand on me now (not that I'm around her to give her the

opportunity). It's just that she knows that, if she ever laid a hand on me now,

I would snap her neck without regret (sounds violent but I am through allowing

her physical abuse).

Your Nada obviously stills thinks she can assault without consequence. Are you

still in contact with her? Please don't view this as blaming the victim (some

people blame the attacked becasue they didn't file police charges but few

understand the paralysis that can occur from trauma) but have you considered

having her arrested for assault? Apparently she needs to grow a clue and realize

that she CANNOT touch you in that manner EVER AGAIN.

Hope you don't think I'm being nosey but I would like to know the dynamics of

your dealings with her now. I understand if that is too personal so won't press

the issue. Am VERY glad that you are in therapy now. Good for you to know that

you deserve the health that a good therapist can lead you to.

" katrina.berries " wrote:

, and others, one of the items in this sad list of abusive

actions from your mother against you, jumped out at me... I hope I don't

touch a too sensitive nerve, but I mean this terrible " throw me down the

stairs " --one of my most serious traumas is exactly that, my mother tried

to strangle me in front of the stairs, upstairs, and I was so terrified

that I couldn't speak after this for days and acted like a zombie, until

my supervisor--I was already an adult--finally " pulled the story out of

me " . That was the day I decided to make an appointment with a therapist

'for real'. While working through that event, I remembered other scenes

involving a raging mother, the stairs, and me as a little child. And the

terror I felt in me. The fear that she was going to kill me (which she

was screaming sometimes while beating me or worse) I still lack words to

say something sensible about it, it is beyond... just wanted to share

this, and hear if other have similar experiences with this...

Katrina

Well, my friends would never scream obscenities at me, go through and

destroy my personal belongings, throw me down the stairs for fun, and

beta me physically and psychologically without any provocation. Further,

they won't have fake heart attacks in front of terrified children, won't

launch smear campaigns against people for fun, and won't act like a

narcissistic sociopath.

---------------------------------

You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total

Access, No Cost.