What is the best way to deal with a Narc sibling

[Guest guest]

Oddly enough my mother and I seem to be getting on better, but my

brother is really getting on my nerves. He can push my buttons better

than anyone and I don't know how to let it go. How does someone deal

with a person who is a Narc/passive agressive male? How do you deal

with the active ostracization that goes on when you fall out of

favor? I resent the hell out of my brother for the way he treats me

and my son and he manages to turn it back on me the same way my

mother would do. Talk about invalidation.

I could handle it better if it were just me but he is doing it to my

son as well. Whenever my brother, his wife and my niece spend time

over at my mother's house when my son and I are there, he makes it a

point to push my son away from him. My son adores him and it really

breaks my heart to see how my brother treats my son. My SIL is better

at it but she will do little things to my son that drive me up the

wall. If my son pushes my niece too hard on the swing she will

actually bump my son out of the way with her hip and say something

demeaning. Meanwhile I have to explain to my son that he is being too

enthusiastic in playing with his cousin and that he needs to be more

careful. My son gets it, modifies his behavior accordingly and stops

trying to push his cousin to the moon. It shouldn't bend me out of

shape, but it does.

I really don't even know why my brother and SIL's opinions mean

anything to me, as I am very aware that they don't understand what I

am going through. I am a single mother who is trying to get her

career jump started and get a good paying job. Even though they are

parents to a very strong willed daughter I get zero support from

either of them and yet it still hurts to think that they view me as a

screw up when in reality I am having a rough time and am doing my

best to get through it. God help me that I need to rely on my family

once in a while. I realize that my mother and brother talk about it

behind my back and there is character assisination going on. It is a

betrayal and I cannot seem to get past it.

When I was younger my parents always told me I was my brother's

keeper, that meant that if he was picked on I was supposed to stick

up for him. I was supposed to look out for him, but he didn't need to

bother with me. Now whenever I am around him all he has to do is look

at me and I feel stabbed in the back. Why can't I let it go? He has

zero interest in being a sibling to me, I want him dead in my mind so

that I don't have to constantly feel demeaned. I want to let it go

and I just can't. Frustrating is the most benign word that applies

here. In fact the majority of my rage stems from my interactions with

my brother.

Sorry for the ramble. Any insight? Or do I just need to shut up and

get over it?

[Guest guest]

It's probably not a coincidence that as things get better with your

mom your relationship with your brother would worsen because he is

probably threatened. That is upsetting he is hurting your son in

order to get to you. I wonder if the common unifying characteristic

of the narcissist is that they really believe love has to be taken

from another. I remember watching a show on chimpanzees once and

there was one named Flint that was just pathologically attached to

his mother. She had a baby and he would go to great lengths to

interfere with her breast-feeding, constantly harassing her while

she was trying to feed the newborn. It was eerie because at one

point Flint comes tearing through the forest vocalizing jubilantly,

and the narrator says it is because the newborn has died. He was

celebrating. Eventually the mother chimp dies, and Flint climbs into

a tree and grieves himself to death in a matter of 4 or 5 days. Your

brother's behavior made me think about him.

Your post made me think about the 'filling in the blanks' post I

posted the other night. You are struggling, and there are things

that you need to hear. That what you are doing is good and

honorable, and hard. That you should be proud of your resolve and

determination. Instead, you are being criticized and character

assassinated. Because you look to those folks to validate you (which

is logical) and they aren't, part of you inside is scared their

negative take on things might be true, which is probably why you

can't let it go. I don't think anyone should ever be told to " let it

go " , that is just plain ignorant as they say around here. The reason

someone can't let something go is because some facet of it is very

important to them, and that needs to be addressed and worked

through. I am so sorry about your brother, my sister is like this

and I truly believe the situation is hopeless. She does all her

damage behind the scenes though; in person she is very " sweet " and

has always known how to present herself in a good light, just like

my father to a tee.

It's not 'true', , what they are saying. The fact that they

would do and say such things rather than offer the support you

deserve shows something is lacking within both of them, just like it

is within my sister and my father. It's sad because they will never

fix the hole in themselves by tormenting you.

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for your understanding. This thing with my brother has

literally manifested itself in to a raging migraine. I have had it for two days

now. I just started reading " Surviving a Borderline Parent " and I highly

reccommend it to anyone on this board. There was a passage about treating your

children as mini-adults and expecting them to parent or be RESPONSIBLE for a

sibling. It was eerie how it just jumped off the page at me. I can remember

being given chores to do and it was also my responsibility to do my brother's

chores. I was always told to look out after my brother, to in effect be the

parent when my parents weren't around. No doubt this has engendered resentment

in my brother and it was supported by my mother telling him that his sister was

crazy. No doubt she continues to tell him that. Any time I step out of line, I'm

crazy. My inability to let the resentment of my brother's treatment of me go

stems from a hope that he will suddenly

value me as a sibling. The betrayal I feel is that he continues not to see that

I was put in an impossible situation. He resents me for doing as I was ORDERED

TO DO.

My hope is that I will be valued as something other than a burden. That is how

my parents saw me, how my mother sees me and now I have to recognize that my

brother sees me this way as well. I have always been told that I was a burden on

the family just because I existed. It is damned unfair, because I have always

been there for him, and not because I was told to do so. When his second wife

skipped town, I went with him to the airport to pick up the truck she had

abandoned there and when we found out where she had stashed all their

belongings, I helped him gather it up, sort it and pack it off to the soon to be

ex-ILs. When it came to his divorce, I supported him to the hilt in getting it.

It is a betrayal that when I need my family to support me and validate me all I

get is condesencion and the cold shoulder. I am asking too much. That my brother

and SIL would do this to a six year old is sickening. The more I think about it,

they are trying to elevate

their child over mine. I don't know how else to put it and it turns my stomach.

My brother has transferred his contempt for me on to my son and I will not stand

for that. He is using his daughter in competition with my son. He and my SIL are

starting to paint my son black while their daughter is painted white. I can see

the pattern already and I think that is what is really bothering me. It is like

a screaming train coming down the track.

It is not fair, but I am beginning to see it more clearly now.

Once again it this goes to show that you don't need to hit someone to leave

marks and I will not allow my son to go through what I went through. This seems

to be the end stages of this little drama. Thanks for letting me vent.

Re: What is the best way to deal with a Narc

sibling

It's probably not a coincidence that as things get better with your

mom your relationship with your brother would worsen because he is

probably threatened. That is upsetting he is hurting your son in

order to get to you. I wonder if the common unifying characteristic

of the narcissist is that they really believe love has to be taken

from another. I remember watching a show on chimpanzees once and

there was one named Flint that was just pathologically attached to

his mother. She had a baby and he would go to great lengths to

interfere with her breast-feeding, constantly harassing her while

she was trying to feed the newborn. It was eerie because at one

point Flint comes tearing through the forest vocalizing jubilantly,

and the narrator says it is because the newborn has died. He was

celebrating. Eventually the mother chimp dies, and Flint climbs into

a tree and grieves himself to death in a matter of 4 or 5 days. Your

brother's behavior made me think about him.

Your post made me think about the 'filling in the blanks' post I

posted the other night. You are struggling, and there are things

that you need to hear. That what you are doing is good and

honorable, and hard. That you should be proud of your resolve and

determination. Instead, you are being criticized and character

assassinated. Because you look to those folks to validate you (which

is logical) and they aren't, part of you inside is scared their

negative take on things might be true, which is probably why you

can't let it go. I don't think anyone should ever be told to " let it

go " , that is just plain ignorant as they say around here. The reason

someone can't let something go is because some facet of it is very

important to them, and that needs to be addressed and worked

through. I am so sorry about your brother, my sister is like this

and I truly believe the situation is hopeless. She does all her

damage behind the scenes though; in person she is very " sweet " and

has always known how to present herself in a good light, just like

my father to a tee.

It's not 'true', , what they are saying. The fact that they

would do and say such things rather than offer the support you

deserve shows something is lacking within both of them, just like it

is within my sister and my father. It's sad because they will never

fix the hole in themselves by tormenting you.

________________________________________________________________________________\

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[Guest guest]

I like that

" They will never fix the hole in themselves, by tormenting you. "

That is so true. Unfortunately, they never seem to come to this

conclusion. And meanwhile, they are destroying the self esteem of

others.

I like the story about flint as well. Shows what jealousy and rage

can do in a family.

I've had these same issues in my family. And when I became ill last

year, around the same time that I was seperating from my husband, I

realized how little love and careing there was available to me in my

family. And there seems to be this attitude that when someone is

down and needs encouragement...that's the time that you pick on them

and kick them down further. I don't understand it and I never will.

But, there is also a trail of narcissists in my family tree. Which,

makes me wonder if there is some sort of genetic component to this.

My son has been treated like a piece of " doo doo " by my brother.

Here was this little toddler trying to meet his uncle for probably

the second time in his life. My son went up to him and touched his

leg as I introduced them. My brother said, " ooh, he touched me. " as

if my child had fleas or something. I vowed then that my son would

not be treated this way, and would not be around my brother. Then,

something worse happened with my brothers son, who is in his

twenties. And should be a man by now. I mentioned this somewhere

before. But, he was living in the side of my mothers home, for free,

with his wife. And he and his wife decided that they didn't want my

son to ever come to see grandma, or be at her home. Which, is none

of their business. And which, he is seldom there anyways. But, he

walked in naturally behind me one day. And my nephew sais to his

wife, " Get him Misty. " She picks my child up and is going to throw

him out like a dog (and since there had been bullying before this I

was really angry). So, I had to grab my son from her and get right

in my nephew Thayne's face and threaten him not to touch my

child again or I'd knock his " IUI) into next year! What's even worse

is that my nephew is a teacher in a public school. I can't imagine

the damage that his arrogance is doing to other peoples kids (that he

decides to pick on) as well.

It was ridiculous to find myself having to fight with a grown man who

should have just been a descent human being to begin with. And I

realized that I am just done with it. I used to be afraid to lose my

family. Then, one day, I woke up and realized that I didn't have one

to lose.

>

> It's probably not a coincidence that as things get better with your

> mom your relationship with your brother would worsen because he is

> probably threatened. That is upsetting he is hurting your son in

> order to get to you. I wonder if the common unifying characteristic

> of the narcissist is that they really believe love has to be taken

> from another. I remember watching a show on chimpanzees once and

> there was one named Flint that was just pathologically attached to

> his mother. She had a baby and he would go to great lengths to

> interfere with her breast-feeding, constantly harassing her while

> she was trying to feed the newborn. It was eerie because at one

> point Flint comes tearing through the forest vocalizing jubilantly,

> and the narrator says it is because the newborn has died. He was

> celebrating. Eventually the mother chimp dies, and Flint climbs

into

> a tree and grieves himself to death in a matter of 4 or 5 days.

Your

> brother's behavior made me think about him.

>

> Your post made me think about the 'filling in the blanks' post I

> posted the other night. You are struggling, and there are things

> that you need to hear. That what you are doing is good and

> honorable, and hard. That you should be proud of your resolve and

> determination. Instead, you are being criticized and character

> assassinated. Because you look to those folks to validate you

(which

> is logical) and they aren't, part of you inside is scared their

> negative take on things might be true, which is probably why you

> can't let it go. I don't think anyone should ever be told to " let

it

> go " , that is just plain ignorant as they say around here. The

reason

> someone can't let something go is because some facet of it is very

> important to them, and that needs to be addressed and worked

> through. I am so sorry about your brother, my sister is like this

> and I truly believe the situation is hopeless. She does all her

> damage behind the scenes though; in person she is very " sweet " and

> has always known how to present herself in a good light, just like

> my father to a tee.

>

> It's not 'true', , what they are saying. The fact that they

> would do and say such things rather than offer the support you

> deserve shows something is lacking within both of them, just like

it

> is within my sister and my father. It's sad because they will never

> fix the hole in themselves by tormenting you.

>

[Guest guest]

Your last statement is dawning on me. I can't lose my brother because I never

had one. I remember the story about Flint, the documentary was called People of

the Forest and it was very hard to watch then, but it takes on new meaning now.

I cannot believe your nephew's wife had the audacity to actually pick your son

up to toss him out of a house that he didn't even own. Good for you for getting

in his face about his rudness. I think the first step is to recognize the harm

that is being done and to not cover it up. I am just going to have to stop

dealing with my brother and let go of the idea that we can ever be a normal

grown up family. There is this moment that I call the " click " when all the

pieces fall into place and I am able to move on. All I am waiting on is that

click, the more I understand what it is that he is doing and why, the more I am

able to realize that I am not alone and the stronger I become.

Thanks for the support.

Re: What is the best way to deal with a Narc

sibling

I like that

" They will never fix the hole in themselves, by tormenting you. "

That is so true. Unfortunately, they never seem to come to this

conclusion. And meanwhile, they are destroying the self esteem of

others.

I like the story about flint as well. Shows what jealousy and rage

can do in a family.

I've had these same issues in my family. And when I became ill last

year, around the same time that I was seperating from my husband, I

realized how little love and careing there was available to me in my

family. And there seems to be this attitude that when someone is

down and needs encouragement. ..that's the time that you pick on them

and kick them down further. I don't understand it and I never will.

But, there is also a trail of narcissists in my family tree. Which,

makes me wonder if there is some sort of genetic component to this.

My son has been treated like a piece of " doo doo " by my brother.

Here was this little toddler trying to meet his uncle for probably

the second time in his life. My son went up to him and touched his

leg as I introduced them. My brother said, " ooh, he touched me. " as

if my child had fleas or something. I vowed then that my son would

not be treated this way, and would not be around my brother. Then,

something worse happened with my brothers son, who is in his

twenties. And should be a man by now. I mentioned this somewhere

before. But, he was living in the side of my mothers home, for free,

with his wife. And he and his wife decided that they didn't want my

son to ever come to see grandma, or be at her home. Which, is none

of their business. And which, he is seldom there anyways. But, he

walked in naturally behind me one day. And my nephew sais to his

wife, " Get him Misty. " She picks my child up and is going to throw

him out like a dog (and since there had been bullying before this I

was really angry). So, I had to grab my son from her and get right

in my nephew Thayne's face and threaten him not to touch my

child again or I'd knock his " IUI) into next year! What's even worse

is that my nephew is a teacher in a public school. I can't imagine

the damage that his arrogance is doing to other peoples kids (that he

decides to pick on) as well.

It was ridiculous to find myself having to fight with a grown man who

should have just been a descent human being to begin with. And I

realized that I am just done with it. I used to be afraid to lose my

family. Then, one day, I woke up and realized that I didn't have one

to lose.

>

> It's probably not a coincidence that as things get better with your

> mom your relationship with your brother would worsen because he is

> probably threatened. That is upsetting he is hurting your son in

> order to get to you. I wonder if the common unifying characteristic

> of the narcissist is that they really believe love has to be taken

> from another. I remember watching a show on chimpanzees once and

> there was one named Flint that was just pathologically attached to

> his mother. She had a baby and he would go to great lengths to

> interfere with her breast-feeding, constantly harassing her while

> she was trying to feed the newborn. It was eerie because at one

> point Flint comes tearing through the forest vocalizing jubilantly,

> and the narrator says it is because the newborn has died. He was

> celebrating. Eventually the mother chimp dies, and Flint climbs

into

> a tree and grieves himself to death in a matter of 4 or 5 days.

Your

> brother's behavior made me think about him.

>

> Your post made me think about the 'filling in the blanks' post I

> posted the other night. You are struggling, and there are things

> that you need to hear. That what you are doing is good and

> honorable, and hard. That you should be proud of your resolve and

> determination. Instead, you are being criticized and character

> assassinated. Because you look to those folks to validate you

(which

> is logical) and they aren't, part of you inside is scared their

> negative take on things might be true, which is probably why you

> can't let it go. I don't think anyone should ever be told to " let

it

> go " , that is just plain ignorant as they say around here. The

reason

> someone can't let something go is because some facet of it is very

> important to them, and that needs to be addressed and worked

> through. I am so sorry about your brother, my sister is like this

> and I truly believe the situation is hopeless. She does all her

> damage behind the scenes though; in person she is very " sweet " and

> has always known how to present herself in a good light, just like

> my father to a tee.

>

> It's not 'true', , what they are saying. The fact that they

> would do and say such things rather than offer the support you

> deserve shows something is lacking within both of them, just like

it

> is within my sister and my father. It's sad because they will never

> fix the hole in themselves by tormenting you.

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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[Guest guest]

wow, I think that is some serious triangulation. I experienced this on

a job once, a supervisor running between her two employees and keeping

us angry at each other, because she didn't want us to group up and

turn against her.. I see your mom using you for a nanny, but at the

same time telling your brother you are 'crazy' and god knows what

else, so that he will not bond with you over her (which is something

that was very possible since you were a surrogate mom). She is very

crafty, isn't she, she had all the angles covered. Amazing.