when does the borderline cross the border?

[Guest guest]

I am curious about this. There seem to be a range of borderline

behaviors, as I understand it borderline is the border between

narcissist and psychopath (someone correct me if that is wrong). Some

of the behaviors that people are describing here sound to me to be

borderline and then some; some remind me of the mother in 'Sybil' or

something like that, who was completely mentally ill. I wonder if

doctors hesistate to give a stronger diagnosis simply because so many

are women; clearly some of them never should have been around children

and should have been institutionalized. I wonder why some of them are

not given the diagnosis of 'anti-social personality'. I think my

sister-in-law is an anti-social or sociopath, she seems to have almost

no conscience at all. Of course I guess there is some overlap between

diagnoses, I'm just curious, especially when the bpd in question is

extrememly violent, if they warrant a more extreme diagnosis, or am I

just confused?

[Guest guest]

that is a really interesting question... it does seem like bpd could

be refered to as " sporadic psychotic personality disorder. "

bink

>

> I am curious about this. There seem to be a range of borderline

> behaviors, as I understand it borderline is the border between

> narcissist and psychopath (someone correct me if that is wrong). Some

> of the behaviors that people are describing here sound to me to be

> borderline and then some; some remind me of the mother in 'Sybil' or

> something like that, who was completely mentally ill. I wonder if

> doctors hesistate to give a stronger diagnosis simply because so many

> are women; clearly some of them never should have been around children

> and should have been institutionalized. I wonder why some of them are

> not given the diagnosis of 'anti-social personality'. I think my

> sister-in-law is an anti-social or sociopath, she seems to have almost

> no conscience at all. Of course I guess there is some overlap between

> diagnoses, I'm just curious, especially when the bpd in question is

> extrememly violent, if they warrant a more extreme diagnosis, or am I

> just confused?

>

[Guest guest]

I think you have a point. Emotional abuse and some minor forms of violence

(slapping, spanking or pushing) would seem to fit the BPD diagnosis any thing

more extreme that would tip over into full blown child abuse would seem to me to

warrant a stronger diagnosis. I suspect that unless the therapist is a victim of

the abuse themselves or have studied BPD they pretty much discount anything we

have to say as an exaggeration.

JMO

when does the borderline cross the border?

I am curious about this. There seem to be a range of borderline

behaviors, as I understand it borderline is the border between

narcissist and psychopath (someone correct me if that is wrong). Some

of the behaviors that people are describing here sound to me to be

borderline and then some; some remind me of the mother in 'Sybil' or

something like that, who was completely mentally ill. I wonder if

doctors hesistate to give a stronger diagnosis simply because so many

are women; clearly some of them never should have been around children

and should have been institutionalized. I wonder why some of them are

not given the diagnosis of 'anti-social personality' . I think my

sister-in-law is an anti-social or sociopath, she seems to have almost

no conscience at all. Of course I guess there is some overlap between

diagnoses, I'm just curious, especially when the bpd in question is

extrememly violent, if they warrant a more extreme diagnosis, or am I

just confused?

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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[Guest guest]

I replied but my reply got lost in the malfunction of whatever is

going wrong with this site the last few days. I think they are down-

playing/dismissing the violence because it is happening to children

and not adults. The main target of a personality disordered woman with

children IS her children. It's ironic to me because the abusiveness

that anti-socials display is probably created in the home by bpd's so

it could be the same, except that the anti-social or psychotic mother

abuses her children because they are the easiest available target. I

can't remember the rest of what I posted but I think some of this

stuff goes beyond having a 'personality disorder'. Maybe what defines

it as a personality disorder is that they can cover up and put on a

good face for the rest of society whereas an anti-social/psychotic is

less adept at that. Of course it might just be that women are better

at this in general (detecting and meeting societal expectations)

because women are raised to be people pleasers. sigh.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your post, it really resonates with me. My nada always attacked us

but would be mild, meek even, in any social situation.

Here is my theory: She enjoys having physical control over those that are

physically vulerable. Another reason why a disordered " mother " attacks the

children is that she lacks the courage to attack another adult so she goes for

those that are physically vunerable. Real cowardly stuff. Mine is the epitome of

a gutless coward and has always played the public martyr while truly being a

private sadist.

mayalisa728 wrote:

I replied but my reply got lost in the malfunction of whatever is

going wrong with this site the last few days. I think they are down-

playing/dismissing the violence because it is happening to children

and not adults. The main target of a personality disordered woman with

children IS her children. It's ironic to me because the abusiveness

that anti-socials display is probably created in the home by bpd's so

it could be the same, except that the anti-social or psychotic mother

abuses her children because they are the easiest available target. I

can't remember the rest of what I posted but I think some of this

stuff goes beyond having a 'personality disorder'. Maybe what defines

it as a personality disorder is that they can cover up and put on a

good face for the rest of society whereas an anti-social/psychotic is

less adept at that. Of course it might just be that women are better

at this in general (detecting and meeting societal expectations)

because women are raised to be people pleasers. sigh.

---------------------------------

You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total

Access, No Cost.

[Guest guest]

You have an excellent point. Remember that one of the main symptoms of the BP is

comorbidity. That means that they have several afflictions coexisting at the

same time. My own Nada is a full blown Narc, is Anti social, and is a raging Bp.

I think the point that is important is that Bp's feel 100% justified in doing

whatever it takes to get their own way. Due to that they exhibit the selfishness

of a Narc, the dishonesty of a Sociopath, and the disregard for all morals of a

Anti-Social. That is just my take on it.

Lilly Blue wrote: I think you have a point. Emotional

abuse and some minor forms of violence (slapping, spanking or pushing) would

seem to fit the BPD diagnosis any thing more extreme that would tip over into

full blown child abuse would seem to me to warrant a stronger diagnosis. I

suspect that unless the therapist is a victim of the abuse themselves or have

studied BPD they pretty much discount anything we have to say as an

exaggeration.

JMO

when does the borderline cross the border?

I am curious about this. There seem to be a range of borderline

behaviors, as I understand it borderline is the border between

narcissist and psychopath (someone correct me if that is wrong). Some

of the behaviors that people are describing here sound to me to be

borderline and then some; some remind me of the mother in 'Sybil' or

something like that, who was completely mentally ill. I wonder if

doctors hesistate to give a stronger diagnosis simply because so many

are women; clearly some of them never should have been around children

and should have been institutionalized. I wonder why some of them are

not given the diagnosis of 'anti-social personality' . I think my

sister-in-law is an anti-social or sociopath, she seems to have almost

no conscience at all. Of course I guess there is some overlap between

diagnoses, I'm just curious, especially when the bpd in question is

extrememly violent, if they warrant a more extreme diagnosis, or am I

just confused?

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total

Access, No Cost.

http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

[Guest guest]

Ok, no one shoot me over this but I wonder if menstrual issues also can trigger

a Borderline. I don't know why there are, suppossedly, more female BP than male.

What do you think?

bink1227 wrote: that is a really

interesting question... it does seem like bpd could

be refered to as " sporadic psychotic personality disorder. "

bink

>

> I am curious about this. There seem to be a range of borderline

> behaviors, as I understand it borderline is the border between

> narcissist and psychopath (someone correct me if that is wrong). Some

> of the behaviors that people are describing here sound to me to be

> borderline and then some; some remind me of the mother in 'Sybil' or

> something like that, who was completely mentally ill. I wonder if

> doctors hesistate to give a stronger diagnosis simply because so many

> are women; clearly some of them never should have been around children

> and should have been institutionalized. I wonder why some of them are

> not given the diagnosis of 'anti-social personality'. I think my

> sister-in-law is an anti-social or sociopath, she seems to have almost

> no conscience at all. Of course I guess there is some overlap between

> diagnoses, I'm just curious, especially when the bpd in question is

> extrememly violent, if they warrant a more extreme diagnosis, or am I

> just confused?

>

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

One correction - BPD is between NEUROSIS and psychosis. Psychosis would be

things like schizophrenia, hallucinations. Neurosis is anxiety/depression. I

think BPD is a serious diagnosis, but it isn't very common and was only

identified in 1980. Since I am from a rural area, and I was born in the

mid-1970s, it's unlikely that my mother would have met with a doctor who

could correctly diagnose her. Of course, the way she doctor shops, she

wouldn't continue seeing a doctor who correctly diagnosed her anyway.

>

> I replied but my reply got lost in the malfunction of whatever is

> going wrong with this site the last few days. I think they are down-

> playing/dismissing the violence because it is happening to children

> and not adults. The main target of a personality disordered woman with

> children IS her children. It's ironic to me because the abusiveness

> that anti-socials display is probably created in the home by bpd's so

> it could be the same, except that the anti-social or psychotic mother

> abuses her children because they are the easiest available target. I

> can't remember the rest of what I posted but I think some of this

> stuff goes beyond having a 'personality disorder'. Maybe what defines

> it as a personality disorder is that they can cover up and put on a

> good face for the rest of society whereas an anti-social/psychotic is

> less adept at that. Of course it might just be that women are better

> at this in general (detecting and meeting societal expectations)

> because women are raised to be people pleasers. sigh.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

it triggers me, lol.

God knows what it can do to a full-blown bpd.

[Guest guest]

thanks for that explanation girlscout, that makes a whole lot more

sense.

[Guest guest]

Yes, I would think that your mom would fit the anti-social

characteristic, which seems to be something they are more prone to

diagnose men with, in addition to the other two things. Thanks for

your insightful and lucid post.

[Guest guest]

This would not surprise me at all. The body is out of whack and there is an

impuslivity issues to begin with. My own mother was a nightmare going through

menopause. I know that there is one day out of the month that my son calls a

scary day because I am so on edge. My grace is that I try to overcome it instead

of taking it out on my child.

Re: Re: when does the borderline cross the border?

Ok, no one shoot me over this but I wonder if menstrual issues also can trigger

a Borderline. I don't know why there are, suppossedly, more female BP than male.

What do you think?

bink1227 <i.miss.my.cupcake@ hotmail.com> wrote: that is a really interesting

question... it does seem like bpd could

be refered to as " sporadic psychotic personality disorder. "

bink

>

> I am curious about this. There seem to be a range of borderline

> behaviors, as I understand it borderline is the border between

> narcissist and psychopath (someone correct me if that is wrong).. Some

> of the behaviors that people are describing here sound to me to be

> borderline and then some; some remind me of the mother in 'Sybil' or

> something like that, who was completely mentally ill. I wonder if

> doctors hesistate to give a stronger diagnosis simply because so many

> are women; clearly some of them never should have been around children

> and should have been institutionalized. I wonder why some of them are

> not given the diagnosis of 'anti-social personality' . I think my

> sister-in-law is an anti-social or sociopath, she seems to have almost

> no conscience at all. Of course I guess there is some overlap between

> diagnoses, I'm just curious, especially when the bpd in question is

> extrememly violent, if they warrant a more extreme diagnosis, or am I

> just confused?

>

------------ --------- --------- ---

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[Guest guest]

Know what you mean! It just seems that these people are hair triggered anyway,

wonder what happens with hormonal fluctuations.

mayalisa728 wrote: it triggers me, lol.

God knows what it can do to a full-blown bpd.

---------------------------------

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Access, No Cost.

[Guest guest]

it could be... generally i have no pain or bloating or anything like

pms. i mean, maybe twice a year my lower back will start hurting for

no reason around that time, but that's about it. my sister, on the

other hand, turns into a complete emotional wreck and has horrible

cramps and it's really bad news. she's all snappy and misinterprets

what other people say, so i think it's probably a possibility. it

would just depend on what kind of relationship that person has to her

uterus.

bink

> >

> > I am curious about this. There seem to be a range of borderline

> > behaviors, as I understand it borderline is the border between

> > narcissist and psychopath (someone correct me if that is wrong). Some

> > of the behaviors that people are describing here sound to me to be

> > borderline and then some; some remind me of the mother in 'Sybil' or

> > something like that, who was completely mentally ill. I wonder if

> > doctors hesistate to give a stronger diagnosis simply because so many

> > are women; clearly some of them never should have been around

children

> > and should have been institutionalized. I wonder why some of them are

> > not given the diagnosis of 'anti-social personality'. I think my

> > sister-in-law is an anti-social or sociopath, she seems to have

almost

> > no conscience at all. Of course I guess there is some overlap between

> > diagnoses, I'm just curious, especially when the bpd in question is

> > extrememly violent, if they warrant a more extreme diagnosis, or am I

> > just confused?

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of

Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just wanted to mention that a lot of these personality disorders go

together.

And in case you're still curious, I can help clarify the

differences... I'm studying criminology, particularly violence, so I

know a bit about the subtleties. The criteria for antisocial

personality disorder includes definite criminality... they are

impulsive, cunning & manipulative (like BP), and often superficially

charming and stubborn (like narcissists), but in addition, there has

to be a clear pattern of delinquency starting from an early age in

order to get a diagnosis of antisocial. So if we're talking about your

average criminal, we're probably talking about ASPD.

Psychopaths used to be called sociopaths in the olden days. They are

the same thing. Some clinicians think of them as a more extreme form

of antisocial... they tend to be more violent, not just

rule-breakers, but really aggressive and cold-blooded, they also are

remorseless. There is also this misconception that ASPD are

anti-social, that they are recluses. In fact psychopaths are the

recluses, generally, because they are more likely to be cognitively or

affectively abnormal. So if we're talking about your average killer,

we're probably talking about a psychopath.

Neurosis and psychosis are more like medical terms for certain

behaviors, they aren't diagnoses like personality disorders or mood

disorders. They are symptoms of mental illness, including personality

disorders and mood disorders. Neuroses are pretty much like

obsessions.... like I'm neurotic about not being too far from my

computer... it's associated with anxiety really. Psychosis encompasses

hallucinations and delusions. Borderlines and psychopaths might have

frequent delusions... which would make them psychotic, at that time.

So borderlines are occasionally psychotic and occasionally neurotic,

but they don't have antisocial personality disorder unless they've

been in legal trouble since they were kids, and they aren't

psychopaths unless they are violent and remorseless. Make sense?

>

> I am curious about this. There seem to be a range of borderline

> behaviors, as I understand it borderline is the border between

> narcissist and psychopath (someone correct me if that is wrong). Some

> of the behaviors that people are describing here sound to me to be

> borderline and then some; some remind me of the mother in 'Sybil' or

> something like that, who was completely mentally ill. I wonder if

> doctors hesistate to give a stronger diagnosis simply because so many

> are women; clearly some of them never should have been around children

> and should have been institutionalized. I wonder why some of them are

> not given the diagnosis of 'anti-social personality'. I think my

> sister-in-law is an anti-social or sociopath, she seems to have almost

> no conscience at all. Of course I guess there is some overlap between

> diagnoses, I'm just curious, especially when the bpd in question is

> extrememly violent, if they warrant a more extreme diagnosis, or am I

> just confused?

>

[Guest guest]

yes it does. Thanks so much for clarifying that...it makes me wonder

if some of these mothers are really psychopaths, and their victims are

their children, because they know they are almost protected from

prosecution, even in this day and age.