Nada and asking for help

[Guest guest]

I got some insight regarding my Nada yesterday and I can't get it out of my

head. She lives in deplorable conditions because she chooses to spend her money

on frivolous things instead of needed things like home repairs, dental care,

food etc. She talks openly about having no money and living in third world

conditions but uses it as poor me manipulation. She has done really weird

things (like pull all the cupboard doors off in her kitchen) then email and

complain of phantom chest pain (the doctors can't find) so she then has an

inability to finish the project. I offer to help, she says no she will be fine

in a few days and then complains that her cupboard doors are off for the next

two years. Even when I offer help she turns it away so I offer once or twice and

then tell her if she wants help just ask! She never does but plays the guilt

card with her poor me stories which I no longer react to or feel guilty about.

She asked for help with something a

month ago and I was very willing and able to assist. When the day came she

canceled because of a headache or something and said she would just ask her

neighbor (who has sexually assaulted her twice in the past). I don't play the

game anymore, I just say ok, let me know if you need my help.

Anyways.... the point I am trying to get to is that yesterday she met me and my

2.5 year old daughter for lunch. I was interacting with my daughter and I asked

her if she needed help with something? My daughter being 2 said " No, I do it "

so I told her to let me know if she needed help. After a few seconds of

struggling with her lunch she said " help please " and I helped her. Nada then

tells me that she knows I am an Early Childhood Educator, but why do I insist on

my daughter asking for help? Nada goes on a 5 minute tirade about how it is

human nature to help others and we should not have to ask for help we should

just jump in and help when it is needed. Hmmmm.... I said " Well mom, she is two

and if I jump in and help her when I think she needs it she is going to scream

NOOOOOO I DO IT at me. Also I am respecting her as a person by giving her the

chance to do whatever she is trying to accomplish without jumping in and

dominating her. It might take

her 3 minutes to put her straw in her drink box but she is happy trying and

very proud of herself when she is successful. Nada said she could now

understand but still continued her speech about human nature and as a society we

must count on each other to help etc.

Talk about insight. She likely doesn't see it but I suspect she sets herself up

to be rescued and when people offer help that isn't enough of a rescue so she

turns them down hoping the will jump up and down and help her anyways. I know

it is an illness and I know she can't help herself but once again I can't help

but see it as a head game she is playing and refuse to be hoovered by the poor

me behavior.

Am I wrong? Knowing this is out of her control and just who she is makes me

question if I should just jump up and insist on helping her, on bullying my way

in so she can be helped? When she does ask for help she always backs down at

the last minute. I guess to her getting help is a sign of weakness but she

constantly sets herself up to be rescued. This illness is so hard to wrap my

mind around because it warps everything. So I guess I am just stuck on whether

I should help her because she can't help herself even though it will continue to

perpetuate the poor me scenarios or should I just continue to let her know I am

here if she needs me and leave it at that? I feel the second option is the

safest for my sanity but maybe it creates more drama?

Thanks for any input!

Steph

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hey Steph, Thank you for your message. That is an interesting insight.

Sounds like your Nada is less mature and has worse social skills than your 2

year old!

I've noticed on the self harming and self helping websites that they make

specific mention of " asking for help " and " accepting help when it is

offered. " It sounds like not doing either of these might be symptoms of BPD.

Congratulations and welcome to the other side of bpd! Please post again,

girlscout

>

> I got some insight regarding my Nada yesterday and I can't get it out of

> my head. She lives in deplorable conditions because she chooses to spend her

> money on frivolous things instead of needed things like home repairs, dental

> care, food etc. She talks openly about having no money and living in third

> world conditions but uses it as poor me manipulation. She has done really

> weird things (like pull all the cupboard doors off in her kitchen) then

> email and complain of phantom chest pain (the doctors can't find) so she

> then has an inability to finish the project. I offer to help, she says no

> she will be fine in a few days and then complains that her cupboard doors

> are off for the next two years. Even when I offer help she turns it away so

> I offer once or twice and then tell her if she wants help just ask! She

> never does but plays the guilt card with her poor me stories which I no

> longer react to or feel guilty about. She asked for help with something a

> month ago and I was very willing and able to assist. When the day came she

> canceled because of a headache or something and said she would just ask her

> neighbor (who has sexually assaulted her twice in the past). I don't play

> the game anymore, I just say ok, let me know if you need my help.

>

> Anyways.... the point I am trying to get to is that yesterday she met me

> and my 2.5 year old daughter for lunch. I was interacting with my daughter

> and I asked her if she needed help with something? My daughter being 2 said

> " No, I do it " so I told her to let me know if she needed help. After a few

> seconds of struggling with her lunch she said " help please " and I helped

> her. Nada then tells me that she knows I am an Early Childhood Educator, but

> why do I insist on my daughter asking for help? Nada goes on a 5 minute

> tirade about how it is human nature to help others and we should not have to

> ask for help we should just jump in and help when it is needed. Hmmmm.... I

> said " Well mom, she is two and if I jump in and help her when I think she

> needs it she is going to scream NOOOOOO I DO IT at me. Also I am respecting

> her as a person by giving her the chance to do whatever she is trying to

> accomplish without jumping in and dominating her. It might take

> her 3 minutes to put her straw in her drink box but she is happy trying

> and very proud of herself when she is successful. Nada said she could now

> understand but still continued her speech about human nature and as a

> society we must count on each other to help etc.

> Talk about insight. She likely doesn't see it but I suspect she sets

> herself up to be rescued and when people offer help that isn't enough of a

> rescue so she turns them down hoping the will jump up and down and help her

> anyways. I know it is an illness and I know she can't help herself but once

> again I can't help but see it as a head game she is playing and refuse to be

> hoovered by the poor me behavior.

>

> Am I wrong? Knowing this is out of her control and just who she is makes

> me question if I should just jump up and insist on helping her, on bullying

> my way in so she can be helped? When she does ask for help she always backs

> down at the last minute. I guess to her getting help is a sign of weakness

> but she constantly sets herself up to be rescued. This illness is so hard to

> wrap my mind around because it warps everything. So I guess I am just stuck

> on whether I should help her because she can't help herself even though it

> will continue to perpetuate the poor me scenarios or should I just continue

> to let her know I am here if she needs me and leave it at that? I feel the

> second option is the safest for my sanity but maybe it creates more drama?

>

> Thanks for any input!

> Steph

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Of course you are not wrong. You give your daughter autonomy and you

don't shame her when she needs assistance.

The mistake you made, that I make DAILY, so I am not judging, I only

see it because it's one I do and then regret every day, is trying to

use logic to communicate with an illogical person. It makes me sad to

think that the truth is that any conversations you have with a bpd can

have little depth, but that is the truth. I think she shouldn't be

questioning your parenting skills, *especially* in front of your

child. That is incredibly disrepectful, and if she's bpd I can't see

where she has any 'high ground' about parenting to lecture from, lol.

I think a boundary was crossed, and that is kind of more important

that the subject matter you were arguing about and who is right or

wrong (though I agree with you and think you are right on target).

[Guest guest]

This sounds so familiar. It's my first time posting here, and I don't

know where to begin. I just would echo the last poster in saying that

using logic gets me nowhere with my nada. I'm starting to think that

the only way I can have a tolerable, long-lasting relationship with

the woman is by saying exactly what I imagine she wants to hear, as

delusional as it may be.

When she makes me doubt my parenting skills, I should be saying

" gee... you could be on to something there. I'll try that next time. "

Or something to that effect. My only concern is what is my child going

to think of this? I want him to learn respect, and that sounds

respectful. But I also want him to be able to differentiate his crazy

grandmother from his not crazy mother. I mean, I don't want him to

think I really do agree with her, then when she's not around I do

things my way... that just makes me look like a hypocrite!

Why'd it have to be so complicated?

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your thoughts. You and girlscout are right. Yes my nada has been

diagnosed BPD over 16 years ago by a family therapist when I was a teen. I have

limited contact with her because of this and I had no contact for most of the

first year of my daughters life. Of course Nada feels the therapist had no idea

what she was talking about and she is an authority since she has her honors in

psych. (haha)

Mayalisa, I really appreciate you pointing out how inappropriate it is for her

to criticize me in front of my daughter. I have also recently noticed that most

things she says in front of my daughter are couched in a negative. For example

she said " I am so proud of my overachieving granddaughter! I tell all my

friends at work about how she skates, snowshoes does gymnastics and she is only

29 months! " or how about " she is such a free thinker and so smart I hope she

can make friends "

She has only seen my daughter about a dozen times and it is always in a public

place for a short time but I am now realizing that I will need to reduce this

contact too.

More to think about.....

Thanks guys!

Steph

Re: Nada and asking for help

Of course you are not wrong. You give your daughter autonomy and you

don't shame her when she needs assistance.

The mistake you made, that I make DAILY, so I am not judging, I only

see it because it's one I do and then regret every day, is trying to

use logic to communicate with an illogical person. It makes me sad to

think that the truth is that any conversations you have with a bpd can

have little depth, but that is the truth. I think she shouldn't be

questioning your parenting skills, *especially* in front of your

child. That is incredibly disrepectful, and if she's bpd I can't see

where she has any 'high ground' about parenting to lecture from, lol.

I think a boundary was crossed, and that is kind of more important

that the subject matter you were arguing about and who is right or

wrong (though I agree with you and think you are right on target).

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In my opinion, I think you are doing just what you need to be doing. Be

yourself, stop walking on eggshells and let a grown woman experience her own

results/consequences of her own behavior/actions. There is a freedom in being

fine with being yourself and trusting that who you are is RIGHT!

TCOY,

JaneSoul

Nada and asking for help

I got some insight regarding my Nada yesterday and I can't get it out of my

head. She lives in deplorable conditions because she chooses to spend her money

on frivolous things instead of needed things like home repairs, dental care,

food etc. She talks openly about having no money and living in third world

conditions but uses it as poor me manipulation. She has done really weird things

(like pull all the cupboard doors off in her kitchen) then email and complain of

phantom chest pain (the doctors can't find) so she then has an inability to

finish the project. I offer to help, she says no she will be fine in a few days

and then complains that her cupboard doors are off for the next two years. Even

when I offer help she turns it away so I offer once or twice and then tell her

if she wants help just ask! She never does but plays the guilt card with her

poor me stories which I no longer react to or feel guilty about. She asked for

help with something a

month ago and I was very willing and able to assist. When the day came she

canceled because of a headache or something and said she would just ask her

neighbor (who has sexually assaulted her twice in the past). I don't play the

game anymore, I just say ok, let me know if you need my help.

Anyways.... the point I am trying to get to is that yesterday she met me and my

2.5 year old daughter for lunch. I was interacting with my daughter and I asked

her if she needed help with something? My daughter being 2 said " No, I do it " so

I told her to let me know if she needed help. After a few seconds of struggling

with her lunch she said " help please " and I helped her. Nada then tells me that

she knows I am an Early Childhood Educator, but why do I insist on my daughter

asking for help? Nada goes on a 5 minute tirade about how it is human nature to

help others and we should not have to ask for help we should just jump in and

help when it is needed. Hmmmm..... I said " Well mom, she is two and if I jump in

and help her when I think she needs it she is going to scream NOOOOOO I DO IT at

me. Also I am respecting her as a person by giving her the chance to do whatever

she is trying to accomplish without jumping in and dominating her. It might take

her 3 minutes to put her straw in her drink box but she is happy trying and very

proud of herself when she is successful. Nada said she could now understand but

still continued her speech about human nature and as a society we must count on

each other to help etc.

Talk about insight. She likely doesn't see it but I suspect she sets herself up

to be rescued and when people offer help that isn't enough of a rescue so she

turns them down hoping the will jump up and down and help her anyways. I know it

is an illness and I know she can't help herself but once again I can't help but

see it as a head game she is playing and refuse to be hoovered by the poor me

behavior.

Am I wrong? Knowing this is out of her control and just who she is makes me

question if I should just jump up and insist on helping her, on bullying my way

in so she can be helped? When she does ask for help she always backs down at the

last minute. I guess to her getting help is a sign of weakness but she

constantly sets herself up to be rescued. This illness is so hard to wrap my

mind around because it warps everything. So I guess I am just stuck on whether I

should help her because she can't help herself even though it will continue to

perpetuate the poor me scenarios or should I just continue to let her know I am

here if she needs me and leave it at that? I feel the second option is the

safest for my sanity but maybe it creates more drama?

Thanks for any input!

Steph

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __

[Guest guest]

In my opinion, I think you are doing just what you need to be doing. Be

yourself, stop walking on eggshells and let a grown woman experience her own

results/consequences of her own behavior/actions. There is a freedom in being

fine with being yourself and trusting that who you are is RIGHT!

TCOY,

JaneSoul

Nada and asking for help

I got some insight regarding my Nada yesterday and I can't get it out of my

head. She lives in deplorable conditions because she chooses to spend her money

on frivolous things instead of needed things like home repairs, dental care,

food etc. She talks openly about having no money and living in third world

conditions but uses it as poor me manipulation. She has done really weird things

(like pull all the cupboard doors off in her kitchen) then email and complain of

phantom chest pain (the doctors can't find) so she then has an inability to

finish the project. I offer to help, she says no she will be fine in a few days

and then complains that her cupboard doors are off for the next two years. Even

when I offer help she turns it away so I offer once or twice and then tell her

if she wants help just ask! She never does but plays the guilt card with her

poor me stories which I no longer react to or feel guilty about. She asked for

help with something a

month ago and I was very willing and able to assist. When the day came she

canceled because of a headache or something and said she would just ask her

neighbor (who has sexually assaulted her twice in the past). I don't play the

game anymore, I just say ok, let me know if you need my help.

Anyways.... the point I am trying to get to is that yesterday she met me and my

2.5 year old daughter for lunch. I was interacting with my daughter and I asked

her if she needed help with something? My daughter being 2 said " No, I do it " so

I told her to let me know if she needed help. After a few seconds of struggling

with her lunch she said " help please " and I helped her. Nada then tells me that

she knows I am an Early Childhood Educator, but why do I insist on my daughter

asking for help? Nada goes on a 5 minute tirade about how it is human nature to

help others and we should not have to ask for help we should just jump in and

help when it is needed. Hmmmm..... I said " Well mom, she is two and if I jump in

and help her when I think she needs it she is going to scream NOOOOOO I DO IT at

me. Also I am respecting her as a person by giving her the chance to do whatever

she is trying to accomplish without jumping in and dominating her. It might take

her 3 minutes to put her straw in her drink box but she is happy trying and very

proud of herself when she is successful. Nada said she could now understand but

still continued her speech about human nature and as a society we must count on

each other to help etc.

Talk about insight. She likely doesn't see it but I suspect she sets herself up

to be rescued and when people offer help that isn't enough of a rescue so she

turns them down hoping the will jump up and down and help her anyways. I know it

is an illness and I know she can't help herself but once again I can't help but

see it as a head game she is playing and refuse to be hoovered by the poor me

behavior.

Am I wrong? Knowing this is out of her control and just who she is makes me

question if I should just jump up and insist on helping her, on bullying my way

in so she can be helped? When she does ask for help she always backs down at the

last minute. I guess to her getting help is a sign of weakness but she

constantly sets herself up to be rescued. This illness is so hard to wrap my

mind around because it warps everything. So I guess I am just stuck on whether I

should help her because she can't help herself even though it will continue to

perpetuate the poor me scenarios or should I just continue to let her know I am

here if she needs me and leave it at that? I feel the second option is the

safest for my sanity but maybe it creates more drama?

Thanks for any input!

Steph

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __

[Guest guest]

Steph, you called it exactly right when you were at lunch with your

mom -- she was just making a " speech " that served her selfish need

to be rescued.

I think if she gets herself into these messes, then rushing in to

help her is only going to prevent her from feeling the sting of

consequences. I'd allow her to be the independent adult that she

is. Rushing in to help her all the time only sets the stage for you

being her permanent assistant/caregiver.

I loved what you said about " helping " your daughter, too. You were

exactly right that when you rush in to " help " people (who got

themselves into a jam in the first place), you ROB THEM of the

chance to accomplish something.

I'd seriously consider not offering so much help to your mom, too.

She obviously just creates these situations to test who loves her --

" who's going to rush in to save me today? "

My mom does the same sort of thing -- doesn't call anybody, sits in

her pity chair and tells herself " Well, why don't they call ME? I'm

the MOTHER... "

And on it goes.....

Stay out of her messes -- let her clean 'em up.

-Kyla

>

> I got some insight regarding my Nada yesterday and I can't get it

out of my head. She lives in deplorable conditions because she

chooses to spend her money on frivolous things instead of needed

things like home repairs, dental care, food etc. She talks openly

about having no money and living in third world conditions but uses

it as poor me manipulation. She has done really weird things (like

pull all the cupboard doors off in her kitchen) then email and

complain of phantom chest pain (the doctors can't find) so she then

has an inability to finish the project. I offer to help, she says

no she will be fine in a few days and then complains that her

cupboard doors are off for the next two years. Even when I offer

help she turns it away so I offer once or twice and then tell her if

she wants help just ask! She never does but plays the guilt card

with her poor me stories which I no longer react to or feel guilty

about. She asked for help with something a

> month ago and I was very willing and able to assist. When the

day came she canceled because of a headache or something and said

she would just ask her neighbor (who has sexually assaulted her

twice in the past). I don't play the game anymore, I just say ok,

let me know if you need my help.

>

> Anyways.... the point I am trying to get to is that yesterday she

met me and my 2.5 year old daughter for lunch. I was interacting

with my daughter and I asked her if she needed help with something?

My daughter being 2 said " No, I do it " so I told her to let me know

if she needed help. After a few seconds of struggling with her

lunch she said " help please " and I helped her. Nada then tells me

that she knows I am an Early Childhood Educator, but why do I insist

on my daughter asking for help? Nada goes on a 5 minute tirade about

how it is human nature to help others and we should not have to ask

for help we should just jump in and help when it is needed.

Hmmmm.... I said " Well mom, she is two and if I jump in and help her

when I think she needs it she is going to scream NOOOOOO I DO IT at

me. Also I am respecting her as a person by giving her the chance

to do whatever she is trying to accomplish without jumping in and

dominating her. It might take

> her 3 minutes to put her straw in her drink box but she is happy

trying and very proud of herself when she is successful. Nada said

she could now understand but still continued her speech about human

nature and as a society we must count on each other to help etc.

> Talk about insight. She likely doesn't see it but I suspect she

sets herself up to be rescued and when people offer help that isn't

enough of a rescue so she turns them down hoping the will jump up

and down and help her anyways. I know it is an illness and I know

she can't help herself but once again I can't help but see it as a

head game she is playing and refuse to be hoovered by the poor me

behavior.

>

> Am I wrong? Knowing this is out of her control and just who she

is makes me question if I should just jump up and insist on helping

her, on bullying my way in so she can be helped? When she does ask

for help she always backs down at the last minute. I guess to her

getting help is a sign of weakness but she constantly sets herself

up to be rescued. This illness is so hard to wrap my mind around

because it warps everything. So I guess I am just stuck on whether

I should help her because she can't help herself even though it will

continue to perpetuate the poor me scenarios or should I just

continue to let her know I am here if she needs me and leave it at

that? I feel the second option is the safest for my sanity but

maybe it creates more drama?

>

> Thanks for any input!

> Steph

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Have you ever watched a cat play with a mouse? Here's the bait, oops switch..

Here's the bait. Darn, sorry about that. Bat, Bat, Bat. Smack. You just thought

you were going to get away.

Like the two year old, it is all about attention. As long as you pay attention,

she will keep up with this game.. Since you still hold affection for her, it is

hard not to pay attention. I have no idea how you can resolve this unless you

just show up at her house one weekend and do the job and then leave. You of

course will never hear the end of it, but the doors will be back on the

cabinets. Good luck

Nada and asking for help

I got some insight regarding my Nada yesterday and I can't get it out of my

head. She lives in deplorable conditions because she chooses to spend her money

on frivolous things instead of needed things like home repairs, dental care,

food etc. She talks openly about having no money and living in third world

conditions but uses it as poor me manipulation. She has done really weird things

(like pull all the cupboard doors off in her kitchen) then email and complain of

phantom chest pain (the doctors can't find) so she then has an inability to

finish the project. I offer to help, she says no she will be fine in a few days

and then complains that her cupboard doors are off for the next two years. Even

when I offer help she turns it away so I offer once or twice and then tell her

if she wants help just ask! She never does but plays the guilt card with her

poor me stories which I no longer react to or feel guilty about. She asked for

help with something a

month ago and I was very willing and able to assist. When the day came she

canceled because of a headache or something and said she would just ask her

neighbor (who has sexually assaulted her twice in the past). I don't play the

game anymore, I just say ok, let me know if you need my help.

Anyways.... the point I am trying to get to is that yesterday she met me and my

2.5 year old daughter for lunch. I was interacting with my daughter and I asked

her if she needed help with something? My daughter being 2 said " No, I do it " so

I told her to let me know if she needed help. After a few seconds of struggling

with her lunch she said " help please " and I helped her. Nada then tells me that

she knows I am an Early Childhood Educator, but why do I insist on my daughter

asking for help? Nada goes on a 5 minute tirade about how it is human nature to

help others and we should not have to ask for help we should just jump in and

help when it is needed. Hmmmm.... I said " Well mom, she is two and if I jump in

and help her when I think she needs it she is going to scream NOOOOOO I DO IT at

me. Also I am respecting her as a person by giving her the chance to do whatever

she is trying to accomplish without jumping in and dominating her. It might take

her 3 minutes to put her straw in her drink box but she is happy trying and very

proud of herself when she is successful. Nada said she could now understand but

still continued her speech about human nature and as a society we must count on

each other to help etc.

Talk about insight. She likely doesn't see it but I suspect she sets herself up

to be rescued and when people offer help that isn't enough of a rescue so she

turns them down hoping the will jump up and down and help her anyways. I know it

is an illness and I know she can't help herself but once again I can't help but

see it as a head game she is playing and refuse to be hoovered by the poor me

behavior.

Am I wrong? Knowing this is out of her control and just who she is makes me

question if I should just jump up and insist on helping her, on bullying my way

in so she can be helped? When she does ask for help she always backs down at the

last minute. I guess to her getting help is a sign of weakness but she

constantly sets herself up to be rescued. This illness is so hard to wrap my

mind around because it warps everything. So I guess I am just stuck on whether I

should help her because she can't help herself even though it will continue to

perpetuate the poor me scenarios or should I just continue to let her know I am

here if she needs me and leave it at that? I feel the second option is the

safest for my sanity but maybe it creates more drama?

Thanks for any input!

Steph

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __

[Guest guest]

Great post -- I loved it. I can apply it to my own situation. My

nada employs the Silent Treatment method as a means to get

attention. ....and for years, I came running. If I didn't come

running fast enough, she'd get my dad to shake me up a little. Now

I've decided I've had enough of that game. The silent treatment,

the angry phone calls from dad, all BAIT for their cat and mouse

game.

Thanks for the analogy!

-Kyla

>

> Have you ever watched a cat play with a mouse? Here's the bait,

oops switch.. Here's the bait. Darn, sorry about that. Bat, Bat,

Bat. Smack. You just thought you were going to get away.

> Like the two year old, it is all about attention. As long as you

pay attention, she will keep up with this game.. Since you still

hold affection for her, it is hard not to pay attention. I have no

idea how you can resolve this unless you just show up at her house

one weekend and do the job and then leave. You of course will never

hear the end of it, but the doors will be back on the cabinets. Good

luck

>

>

>

>

> Nada and asking for help

>

> I got some insight regarding my Nada yesterday and I can't get it

out of my head. She lives in deplorable conditions because she

chooses to spend her money on frivolous things instead of needed

things like home repairs, dental care, food etc. She talks openly

about having no money and living in third world conditions but uses

it as poor me manipulation. She has done really weird things (like

pull all the cupboard doors off in her kitchen) then email and

complain of phantom chest pain (the doctors can't find) so she then

has an inability to finish the project. I offer to help, she says no

she will be fine in a few days and then complains that her cupboard

doors are off for the next two years. Even when I offer help she

turns it away so I offer once or twice and then tell her if she

wants help just ask! She never does but plays the guilt card with

her poor me stories which I no longer react to or feel guilty about.

She asked for help with something a

> month ago and I was very willing and able to assist. When the day

came she canceled because of a headache or something and said she

would just ask her neighbor (who has sexually assaulted her twice in

the past). I don't play the game anymore, I just say ok, let me know

if you need my help.

>

> Anyways.... the point I am trying to get to is that yesterday she

met me and my 2.5 year old daughter for lunch. I was interacting

with my daughter and I asked her if she needed help with something?

My daughter being 2 said " No, I do it " so I told her to let me know

if she needed help. After a few seconds of struggling with her lunch

she said " help please " and I helped her. Nada then tells me that she

knows I am an Early Childhood Educator, but why do I insist on my

daughter asking for help? Nada goes on a 5 minute tirade about how

it is human nature to help others and we should not have to ask for

help we should just jump in and help when it is needed. Hmmmm.... I

said " Well mom, she is two and if I jump in and help her when I

think she needs it she is going to scream NOOOOOO I DO IT at me.

Also I am respecting her as a person by giving her the chance to do

whatever she is trying to accomplish without jumping in and

dominating her. It might take

> her 3 minutes to put her straw in her drink box but she is happy

trying and very proud of herself when she is successful. Nada said

she could now understand but still continued her speech about human

nature and as a society we must count on each other to help etc.

> Talk about insight. She likely doesn't see it but I suspect she

sets herself up to be rescued and when people offer help that isn't

enough of a rescue so she turns them down hoping the will jump up

and down and help her anyways. I know it is an illness and I know

she can't help herself but once again I can't help but see it as a

head game she is playing and refuse to be hoovered by the poor me

behavior.

>

> Am I wrong? Knowing this is out of her control and just who she is

makes me question if I should just jump up and insist on helping

her, on bullying my way in so she can be helped? When she does ask

for help she always backs down at the last minute. I guess to her

getting help is a sign of weakness but she constantly sets herself

up to be rescued. This illness is so hard to wrap my mind around

because it warps everything. So I guess I am just stuck on whether I

should help her because she can't help herself even though it will

continue to perpetuate the poor me scenarios or should I just

continue to let her know I am here if she needs me and leave it at

that? I feel the second option is the safest for my sanity but maybe

it creates more drama?

>

> Thanks for any input!

> Steph

>

> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __

>

[Guest guest]

Because families are by definition messy.

Re: Nada and asking for help

This sounds so familiar.. It's my first time posting here, and I don't

know where to begin. I just would echo the last poster in saying that

using logic gets me nowhere with my nada. I'm starting to think that

the only way I can have a tolerable, long-lasting relationship with

the woman is by saying exactly what I imagine she wants to hear, as

delusional as it may be.

When she makes me doubt my parenting skills, I should be saying

" gee... you could be on to something there. I'll try that next time. "

Or something to that effect. My only concern is what is my child going

to think of this? I want him to learn respect, and that sounds

respectful. But I also want him to be able to differentiate his crazy

grandmother from his not crazy mother. I mean, I don't want him to

think I really do agree with her, then when she's not around I do

things my way... that just makes me look like a hypocrite!

Why'd it have to be so complicated?

________________________________________________________________________________\

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[Guest guest]

Steph--in my experience of trying to help mother for thirty years and

almost any offer of help being turned down, I do now believe that

she, my mother, I do not know about yours, will get help from the

moment she sees she can have no gain from her complaints and the

pain/discomfort whatever outweighs the emotional gains (blackmailing,

poor me manipulation etc.)

This holds only true in general because there are frightening

exceptions and if I'd not found her with her suicide attempt, and she

really couldn't know I would come home that day, she'd not be here

anymore.

Nothing is predictable with a BPD, but the insight above helped me to

indeed limit my offers to help to " let me know if I can help " . She

likes to turn the offer down, because I don't say it enthusiastically

enough. ??!!!! Or for example, when I say I will come to help you

prepare the visit of tonight and I come from work she'll say " well

now I've done it all myself, you should have come earlier " even

though I am punctual or even earlier than we'd made out. When I point

that out, she'll just go on about having to do everything alone

always. While I took over the complete household every time when she

had depressive episodes, but that never counted.

It used to make me feel guilty, but now it does not anymore.

She takes more serious risks than not having the food ready on time,

too: she has lupus and is very careless with her treatment. She has

wounds on her hands and feet and litterally " keeps " them open, it's

disgusting, sorry to say that, she scratches the skin from hands and

feet and elbows. And then she used to ask me to put bandages on it.

Made me sick. This damage done to herself, these self inflicted

wounds and pains. She travels to Africa twice a year but complains

that her pills are too expensive. ??? Now I just say, when she

complains, " yes, I can imagine it's expensive, and what with these

airplane tickets on top of it... "

She has a thing about being independent: i want to be independent, I

hate it to have to be dependent on someone, etc. Only in words,

because she also complains about having to do everything alone

always... But I sometimes play into that and I say that I know that

she does not like to have the feeling to be dependent on any help, so

I rely on the fact that she'll ask me for help when she needs it. If

you're not strong, you have to be sly...

In any case, mother is completely conflicted about asking and needing

help. I recognize that and understand your concern. My father still

lives with her, so that makes a difference in the situation

(theoretically so, at least).

Wishing you strength

Katrina

>

> I got some insight regarding my Nada yesterday and I can't get it

out of my head. She lives in deplorable conditions because she

chooses to spend her money on frivolous things instead of needed

things like home repairs, dental care, food etc. She talks openly

about having no money and living in third world conditions but uses

it as poor me manipulation. She has done really weird things (like

pull all the cupboard doors off in her kitchen) then email and

complain of phantom chest pain (the doctors can't find) so she then

has an inability to finish the project. I offer to help, she says no

she will be fine in a few days and then complains that her cupboard

doors are off for the next two years. Even when I offer help she

turns it away so I offer once or twice and then tell her if she wants

help just ask! She never does but plays the guilt card with her poor

me stories which I no longer react to or feel guilty about. She

asked for help with something a

> month ago and I was very willing and able to assist. When the day

came she canceled because of a headache or something and said she

would just ask her neighbor (who has sexually assaulted her twice in

the past). I don't play the game anymore, I just say ok, let me know

if you need my help.

>

> Anyways.... the point I am trying to get to is that yesterday she

met me and my 2.5 year old daughter for lunch. I was interacting

with my daughter and I asked her if she needed help with something?

My daughter being 2 said " No, I do it " so I told her to let me know

if she needed help. After a few seconds of struggling with her lunch

she said " help please " and I helped her. Nada then tells me that she

knows I am an Early Childhood Educator, but why do I insist on my

daughter asking for help? Nada goes on a 5 minute tirade about how it

is human nature to help others and we should not have to ask for help

we should just jump in and help when it is needed. Hmmmm.... I

said " Well mom, she is two and if I jump in and help her when I think

she needs it she is going to scream NOOOOOO I DO IT at me. Also I am

respecting her as a person by giving her the chance to do whatever

she is trying to accomplish without jumping in and dominating her.

It might take

> her 3 minutes to put her straw in her drink box but she is happy

trying and very proud of herself when she is successful. Nada said

she could now understand but still continued her speech about human

nature and as a society we must count on each other to help etc.

> Talk about insight. She likely doesn't see it but I suspect she

sets herself up to be rescued and when people offer help that isn't

enough of a rescue so she turns them down hoping the will jump up and

down and help her anyways. I know it is an illness and I know she

can't help herself but once again I can't help but see it as a head

game she is playing and refuse to be hoovered by the poor me

behavior.

>

> Am I wrong? Knowing this is out of her control and just who she is

makes me question if I should just jump up and insist on helping her,

on bullying my way in so she can be helped? When she does ask for

help she always backs down at the last minute. I guess to her

getting help is a sign of weakness but she constantly sets herself up

to be rescued. This illness is so hard to wrap my mind around

because it warps everything. So I guess I am just stuck on whether I

should help her because she can't help herself even though it will

continue to perpetuate the poor me scenarios or should I just

continue to let her know I am here if she needs me and leave it at

that? I feel the second option is the safest for my sanity but maybe

it creates more drama?

>

> Thanks for any input!

> Steph

>

> __________________________________________________

>