Re: Tertroxin started How /When to Increase??????

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

September 6, 2008

Thanks Val,

So 10mcg Tertroxin increase every 10-14 days noted.

Do you have any advice about the need to stress dose HC for phlembotomy

(Q2 in my original post)?

Lethal Lee

>

> You are going ot need some patience here as it will take 6-8 weeks

for

> the T4 levels to come down and thus any RT3 as well. I look for 12

weeks

> total to feel most the effects of the T3 only meds. Sop I would only

> increase Tertroxin my 10mcg every10-14 dys from your current 80mcg so

> you donlt go WAY too high while waiting for the T4 to clear out.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

September 6, 2008

I would take extra 5010 right before you go, and after as needed depending

on your stress levels.

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

September 6, 2008

YUCK dam typos that should be 5-10mg

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

September 6, 2008

An extra 5-10 before then more if/when needed. Thanks very much Val.

Lethal Lee

>

> YUCK dam typos that should be 5-10mg

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

> > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

>

September 14, 2008

Howdy Val,

I must confess to being a bit impatient. My sleep had started to

increase again from 8-10 hours to 12-15 hours.

So I waited 10 days (you said 10-14 days) but increased by 20mcg (you

said 10mcg). So I am on 100mcg total Tertroxine daily for 4 days now

taken in 5 doses of 20mcg each.

My sleep has reduced back down to 8-10 hours so that is good. I

definitely do feel better brain fog wise than when I was on NTH 4 1/4

grains. Apart from that there has been no change to my energy or

weight.

I have kept a check on my vitals. My Basal temps, daily averages, mid

avo temps are all still at optimal levels and did not change with the

addition of the extra 20mcg. My BP & HR are exactly the same as well.

Do you think it will be alright to increase a further 20mcg 10 days

after the last increase?

Lethal Lee

> >

> > You are going ot need some patience here as it will take 6-8

weeks

> for

> > the T4 levels to come down and thus any RT3 as well. I look for

12

> weeks

> > total to feel most the effects of the T3 only meds. Sop I would

only

> > increase Tertroxin my 10mcg every10-14 dys from your current

80mcg so

> > you donlt go WAY too high while waiting for the T4 to clear out.

> >

> > --

> > Artistic Grooming- Hurricane

WV

> >

> >

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

> >

>

September 20, 2008

Howdy Val,

I started 80mcg Tertroxin on 2nd Sept (was on 4 1/4 grains NTH)

upped to 100mcg 10th Sept

upped to 120mcg 20th Sept.

-Brainfog reduced markedly from first day

-had a brief increase in energy first 1-2 days but now back to

normal

(none)

-I have noticed I reach for stimulants like Coffee & Chocs far less

now.

-My BP & HR has not changed at all (I have a monitor at home) note

my BP runs a bit high at 150/100 & HR ~80-100. This is MUCH lower

than before Pred & Florinef though. My BP consistently rises at

least 10 points on rising since Florinef as well

-My Av temps dipped a little for 3 days when I started 100mcg then

went back to normal.

-started to sleep more for 2-3 days just before increased to 100mcg,

then went back to normal 8-10 hours

-again started to need more sleep 2-3 days before increasing to

120mcg but this time was needing 2-3 hours nap late avo

-My Basal temps were fine until I started 120mcg when it dropped

from 36.6-36.7 C to 36.4 C yesterday & 36.2 C.

-there has been no change weight wise (still ~30kg overweight)

Currently dosing

120mcg = 30mcg x 4 daily (note Tertroxin comes in 20mcg tabs, can

divide into 10mcg OK but anything smaller is impossible)

I am on 10mg Prednisolone dosed 5mg x 2 daily

Florinef 150mcg dosed 100mcg + 50mcg daily

Next Step?

I am confused as to why my Basals have now dropped? Does this mean I

am more Hypo? Would that be because my FT4 has dropped but RT3 still

relatively high & still blocking FT3 from the tissues?

What should I do next? Just keep going & plan to do another 10-20mcg

increase to 140mcg daily total 10 days after last increase?

Note I am likely to start my Phlebs for Hemochromatosis in about a

weeks time and am having a Ferriscan MRI to measure Liver Iron

Concentration tomorrow.

You previously told me to stress dose 5-10mg HC prior to the Phleb &

take more with me in case I need it. Would you advise to do the same

for the MRI? I have to fast ~4 hours before the MRI which will be

difficult as I would usually end up shaky & Hypoglycemic. They did

cut that time down for me when I explained that (usually they

require 6 hours fasting. I plan to drink my Salted water to help

during the fast & will eat straight after procedure is done (its in

a Hospital which has a Cafe).

Any other advice?

Thanks-Lethal Lee

>

> Yes as long as pulse does nto start to creep up or temps.

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane

WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

>

September 21, 2008

Well as usual, you have gone up WAY too fast. I would holld this dose

for an additional 2 weeks before more raises. Right now your blood

levels of T3 are possibly over 800. Can;t go anywhere until some of the

T4 and RT3 leaves, so no point opushing more in you. It is setting

yourself up for thyrotoxicosis should there be a breakthough suddenly.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

September 22, 2008

Val wrote:

" Well as usual, you have gone up WAY too fast. I would hold this

dose for an additional 2 weeks before more raises. Right now your

blood levels of T3 are possibly over 800. Can't go anywhere until

some of the T4 and RT3 leaves, so no point pushing more in you. It

is setting yourself up for thyrotoxicosis should there be a

breakthough suddenly. "

Hi Val,

I'm a bit confused as to why you are saying that I've gone up way

too fast?

I checked with you after I upped my dose from 80mcg to 100mcg and

you said that was fine. I then asked whether I should increase

another 20mg to 120mcg in another 10 days and you said as long as

pulse & temps did not increase that would be fine as well?

As explained above my pulse & temps have NOT increased so why do you

say it is too fast when I increased as we discussed?

I have noticed that my sleep requirements seem to increase by 3-5

extra hours within about 7 days after an increase. Then immediately

reduce back to my 'normal' 8-10 hours after the dose adjustment.

Needing more sleep is usually a good indicator of going more HypoT

for me.

Also after the most recent increase to 120mcg on Saturday my Basal

temps (but not my av daily temps) dropped from my usual 36.6 C (97.9

F) to 36.2-36.4 C (97.16-97.52 F). Note my daily av temp is VERY

steady at 37 C (98.6 F) except when it dipped briefly to 36.7 C

(98.06 F) for 3 days when I increased from 80 to 100mcg. To me this

means my Adrenals are handling the T3 fine but I've become MORE

HypoT after the increase to 120mcg. Do you agree & if so why would

that be do you think?

So I gather from what you are saying that for the RT3 clearing

protocol we are supposed to ignore HypoT symptoms while ramping up

the T3 meds and just go by time instead? So I guess I just let

myself get more HypoT until we get past the 6 week period? To

clarify: you saying that I should wait for 14 days from my last

increase and then increase by only 10mcg to 130 mcg?

I have also read that you say Tertroxin appears quite weak when

compared to some other T3 meds. If thats so maybe a 120 mcg

Tertroxin dose within 3 weeks is not such a large dose?

I read too that you had to go up to 250 mcg of Cytomel to clear

your receptors? If you dont mind me asking how long did you take to

work up to that amount?

I read that you say you judge an optimal level of T3 by getting

Basal & av daily temps at optimal while daily average temps

remain stable. How then would I judge optimal when my temps were

already at optimal & steady before I even started on the T3?

Also my HR is quite high ~ 90-100 normally (it has actually come

down since Flroinef & Salt) so do I just watch out for any trend

upwards as an indicator of too much T3? Same for my BP it is quite

high usually ~150/100 at rest (again was MUCH higher before Florinef

& Salt) so do I watch for any trend upwards there too? Note my BP

always rises by at least 10 points since the Florinef as well.

I had my Ferriscan MRI (for Liver Iron) done today just after

Midday. I fasted for almost 4 hours, stress dosed 4 mg HC twice,

drank my Salted water but was a bit shaky and had a headache by the

time I the MRI started (Hypoglycemic/low blood Glucose?). I had made

sure I ate lots of protein & carbs for breakfast before I fasted.

Immediately I finished I rushed off to the Cafe & ate & drank. The

shaking subsided a bit but didnt go away nor did the headache. Later

the shaking got a bit worse and both the headache & the shaking

finally subsided in the early evening. Maybe in retrospect I should

have stress dosed a little more?

Sorry for so many questions Val. Just want to be clear as I am

educating my Doc in all this so I cant get any direction from her.

She relies on me to tell her these things. I bought her a copy of

Safe Uses of Cortisol & Janies STTM book which has made her willing

to DX & RX treatment for me.

Lethal Lee

September 22, 2008

The thing is while the RT3 and T4 in your body is still present (8-12

weeks after stopping T4 meds) the T3 CAN'T get to your cells so you will

remain hypo NO MATTER HOW MUCH T3 YOU TAKE. The T3 is just POOLING in

your blood waiting for the receptors to clear, then when it does, if you

have a free T around 800+ you will be VERY hyper, possibly dangerously

so. I went ot 250mcg over a 4 MONTH period. I was at 100 mcg around 8

weeks into it.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

September 22, 2008

" The thing is while the RT3 and T4 in your body is still present (8-

12 weeks after stopping T4 meds) the T3 CAN'T get to your cells so

you will remain hypo NO MATTER HOW MUCH T3 YOU TAKE. The T3 is just

POOLING in your blood waiting for the receptors to clear, then when

it does, if you have a free T around 800+ you will be VERY hyper,

possibly dangerously so. I went ot 250mcg over a 4 MONTH period. I

was at 100 mcg around 8 weeks into it "

I understand the concept above Val but was hoping you would answer

my specific questions which I repeat here:

1) If I am now on 120 mcg & you feel that is too much why did you

previously say it was OK?

2) I've read that you say Tertroxin appears quite weak when compared

to some other T3 meds. If thats so maybe a 120 mcg Tertroxin dose

within 3 weeks is not such a large dose?

3) If in fact 120 mcg is too much should I go back down and if so

how much?

4) Or if dont need to increase should I just wait for 14 days from

my last increase and then increase by only 10mcg to 130 mcg as you

suggested in your previous post?

A) Yes.

5) You say you judge an optimal level of T3 by getting Basal & av

daily temps at optimal while daily average temps remain stable. How

then would I judge optimal when my temps were already at optimal &

steady before I even started on the T3?

A) Maybe you do nto need T3 at all. Or possibly high cortill or low aldosterone

is raising you temps .. Low T3 = low temps low pulse.

6) Also my HR is quite high ~ 90-100 normally (it has actually come

down since Florinef & Salt) so do I just watch out for any trend

upwards as an indicator of too much T3? Same for my BP it is quite

high usually ~150/100 at rest (again was MUCH higher before Florinef

& Salt) so do I watch for any trend upwards there too? Note my BP

always rises by at least 10 points since the Florinef as well.

A) your pulse is still too high, but not much. Mine is comfortable between

90-103., If I get to 110 I feel weakness and shortness of breath indicating too

much T3.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

September 22, 2008

" 5) You say you judge an optimal level of T3 by getting Basal & av

daily temps at optimal while daily average temps remain stable. How

then would I judge optimal when my temps were already at optimal &

steady before I even started on the T3?

A) Maybe you do nto need T3 at all. Or possibly high cortill or low

aldosterone

is raising you temps .. Low T3 = low temps low pulse. "

------------------------------------------------------------

Val before Thyroid & Adrenal meds my temps, BP & HR were ALL high.

I have had RT3 measured twice and the ratio definitely showed high

RT3 both times. In fact you saw my results on NTH Adrenal forum &

said that my frees definitely were indicative of RT3 too. You

suggested T3 was the way forward.

Going on Adrenal meds Prednisolone & Florinef has actually brought

my elevated temps DOWN also my BP & HR reduced too. I had SEVERE

heat intolerance in fact. My temps went WAY down actually to very

Hypo levels & stayed there until NTH dose increased to 3-4 grains.

However despite my Frees coming up (FT3 top of range & FT4 87% of

range) there was no improvement in energy levels, reduction in

weight or improvement in motivation & mood.

I dont think I have high Cortisol either. I have tried to reduce

from 10mg to 7.5mg Pred but was never able to stay there, had to

continually stress dose and started sleeping 15 hours plus a day.

Since going back to 10mg I have been better & have in fact lost

weight (3 kilos). I have elevated inflammation markers too so Doc

wants me to stay on 10mg.

So I want to stick with T3 for a while. I do have 9 Amalgams so I

suspect that the Mercury probably interefers with conversion &

causes RT3. I also have Hashis & my Abs have INCREASED as I went

higher in NTH dose. My Hemochromatosis may play a part...possibly

Iron infiltration of Pituitary/Thyroid involved. I'm just about to

start deironing venesections.

thanks for your help Val...Lethal Lee

>

> 1) If I am now on 120 mcg & you feel that is too much why did you

> previously say it was OK?

>

> A) possibly I did not realize how little time you had been on T3.

>

> 2) I've read that you say Tertroxin appears quite weak when

compared

> to some other T3 meds. If thats so maybe a 120 mcg Tertroxin dose

> within 3 weeks is not such a large dose?

>

> A) Actually Tertroxin is only a little weaker than Cynomel or

Cytomel, Ti Tre is weaker still and Tryotex weakest.

>

> 3) If in fact 120 mcg is too much should I go back down and if so

> how much?

>

> A) you are there now, no sense lowering I would just hold it a

while to allow the T4 and RT3 time ot leave.

>

> 4) Or if dont need to increase should I just wait for 14 days from

> my last increase and then increase by only 10mcg to 130 mcg as you

> suggested in your previous post?

> A) Yes.

>

> 5) You say you judge an optimal level of T3 by getting Basal & av

> daily temps at optimal while daily average temps remain stable.

How

> then would I judge optimal when my temps were already at optimal &

> steady before I even started on the T3?

>

> A) Maybe you do nto need T3 at all. Or possibly high cortill or

low aldosterone is raising you temps .. Low T3 = low temps low

pulse.

>

> 6) Also my HR is quite high ~ 90-100 normally (it has actually come

> down since Florinef & Salt) so do I just watch out for any trend

> upwards as an indicator of too much T3? Same for my BP it is quite

> high usually ~150/100 at rest (again was MUCH higher before

Florinef

> & Salt) so do I watch for any trend upwards there too? Note my BP

> always rises by at least 10 points since the Florinef as well.

>

> A) your pulse is still too high, but not much. Mine is comfortable

between 90-103., If I get to 110 I feel weakness and shortness of

breath indicating too much T3.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane

WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

September 22, 2008

When checking for tremors in the hands do we spread the fingers or

not? Hold the arm out straight in front of us at 90 degrees?

Thanks.

Mo

> Well then you are going to have a very hard time knwo ing when you

are

> optimal. But tremors in your hands would stil indicate too high T3,

and

> hart rate rising further or any breathlessness also would be good

> indicators to watch for., Muscel weakness as well.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

September 22, 2008

Put a regular sheet of paper on the palm of youer hand and extend your

arm. That makes any tremors VERY noticable!

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

September 23, 2008

ok thanks Val, I will try that.

Can I ask an adrenal question on this list? Hope so, here it is anyway.

I am in an adrenal 'dip' from upping my T3 without checking if my temps

were stable.

I have been waiting it out and waiting it out (raise made last Sunday

week) and am very weak and washed out.

Is there ANYTHING I can do, apart from taking it easy, to help myself

out of this dip?

Thanks.

Mo

> Put a regular sheet of paper on the palm of youer hand and extend

your

> arm. That makes any tremors VERY noticable!

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

September 23, 2008

Take more HC till you feel better than taper back down to usual dose.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

September 23, 2008

What would be the best way to approach that?

Just increase each dose? or what?

Thanks Val.

Mo

> Take more HC till you feel better than taper back down to usual dose.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

September 23, 2008

I would put in an extra 2.5-5mg dose inbetween your two am doses.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

September 23, 2008

Ok I will try that. Thanks.

btw have been dosing as per Hertoghe i.e. 20 mg first dose, 10 second, 5 third and 5 fourth.

Mo----Original Message----From: artisticgroomer@...Date: 23/09/2008 16:39 To: <RT3_T3 >Subj: Re: Re: Tertroxin started How /When to Increase??????

I would put in an extra 2.5-5mg dose inbetween your two am doses.-- Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WVhttp://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/Do you value your online security? - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/security ________________________________________________

October 8, 2008

Hi Val,

Something has happened in past few days Val & need your advice.

To recap I have been on Tertroxin for 5 weeks 2 days now. I was

previously on 4 1/4 grains NTH.

I started on 80mcgs T3 & worked up to 120mcg within 3 weeks. In the

past few days I have started feeling shaky. It is internal trembling

mainly. My legs feel a bit weak from time to time. Sometimes when I

lie down I am aware of heart beating harder..it isnt beating faster

though. I have also been getting some Sinus pressure type headaches

a bit lately which is unusual. I am not aware of being sick at all.

Certainly no fever either.

My BP & HR is NOT higher than usual. It is not rising 10 points on

rising though which it usually does. I am on Florinef Salt &

Potassium as well.

There has not been any change in my Temps either. Sleep is good no

problems there.

It actually feels like low Cortisol or low Aldo type tremblings. I

am on 10mg Predisolone dosed three times a day. So unsure why I

would have low Cortisol? That said I often need to stress dose when

leaving the house for any reason, even taking a shower I sometimes

need to.

I tried adjusting down to 100 mcg for a couple of days, then did one

day at 60 mcgs. Finally I didnt take any T3 yesterday or today at

all. It didnt help the shakes are still there. I tried two small 4

mg HC stress doses today. They did seem to help for a while. Took

about 20 mins to work & wore off about 3 hours later each time.

I have tried the paper test & I do have fine tremor. However I have

had Fibro for over 8 years with particular problems with my arms &

have weakness & trembling whenever I raise my arms to shoulder

level. I had this even when Frees were both very low.

So I am at a bit of a loss? Am I getting Hyper from FT3 dumping? If

so I would have thought reducing/stopping the T3 would get rid of

the shakes/trembling? Also IF was dumping from RT3 clearing wouldnt

extra HC actually increase dumping & symptoms?

The only recent stressor recently was my first Phleb which I had on

30th Sept (I have Hemochromatosis) which I stress dosed 8 mg HC on

the day. I actually felt good that day & several days after...better

than usual anyway.

Is it possible that the Phleb could have upset things? Caused some

Adrenal stress perhaps to this extent?

What would you suggest I do now? Previously you said to stay on

120mcg & dont increase for a couple of weeks & then by only 10mcgs.

I had decided to wait until 8 weeks to increase as I got nervous

that I actually did increase too fast. Especially when you said you

took 8 weeks (?) to get to 100 mcgs?

I was hoping to get Frees & RT3 retested at the 8 week mark to get

an idea what is happening & before further increases.I see my Doc

next in two weeks time (7 week mark).

Do I go back on T3 & if so at what level? Should I stress dose HC

some more, maybe temporarily increase Pred dose up from current 10

mg? If so which and how much?

Lethal Lee

-------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Well then you are going to have a very hard time knwo ing when you

are

> optimal. But tremors in your hands would stil indicate too high

T3, and

> hart rate rising further or any breathlessness also would be good

> indicators to watch for., Muscel weakness as well.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane

WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

October 8, 2008

I would go back on T3 no higher than 100mcg, possibly get electrolytes

drawn if you can sooner rather than later. Cortisol status can change

once you start gettign thyroid to the tissues.. After 3 years I am again

weaning down! With many high cortils symtokloms that started with the

cooler weather. I would stress dose as ti sseems to help with HC.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/