Re: Enrique's Second Unnecessary Emergency Room Visit

[Guest guest]

Word of advice, from someone who deals with stupid insurance companies for a

living... KEEP ON THEM.... BIG TIME... Perhaps if you could go through ____'s

workplace, and have their person on the inside expedite it.. That helps

sometimes. Document everything (Dates, names, times, etc)

Kerri

Enrique's Second Unnecessary Emergency Room Visit

Really the subject says it all, but I'll tell you about it anyway.

He has had a cold. He told me this morning that he was having horrible chest

pains and he could hardly function.

Enrique can hardly function, well, he hardly functions period, but he has no

pain threshold at all. So I never know what to think when he says he is in

terrible pain.

The pain seemed to be in his lower lungs so we looked up pleurisy and

pneumonia and the information we found on those terrified him. " Will I need

surgery? " he gasped, 'Or a shot? "

I am not sure which he thinks is worse, but I rather doubted that either

pneumonia or pleurisy would need surgery or shots.

He had no fever, no vomiting, no chills or aches (except the pain in his

chest), no shortness of breath.

My brain told me that this was a minor deal magnified by panic attack.

But you can never prove that and what if you are wrong? So I called the

doctor's office and naturally they had just closed (they do have Sunday hours

but they end at 1 p.m.) and so we were directed to the Terribly Amusing and

Enjoyable Emergency Room.

I just knew the trip was totally unnecessary, but Enrique was doubled over in

pain, moaning and groaning, so off I went. I was lucky that was home

and he watched Robbie and Sophie was at a friend's house, so I only took Putter

with me.

The trip went well. We were seen almost immediately. I wrote the alphabet

on a piece of paper and Putter spent a nice stimmy time with it (sometimes

autism is convenient) and thus he behaved like a little woolly lamb.

There was nothing really wrong with Enrique naturally. They gave him an

antibiotic and told him to take ibuprofen. Sigh. I had to take him home before

getting his prescription because he was panicking in the car. Double Sigh. Oh,

and our insurance company does not seem to know that we signed up for COBRA

benefits after my _________ husband (you may fill in your choice of expletive in

the blank) quit his job and thus I had to pay in full for visit and

prescription. Yes, it will be reimbursed, when our insurance company admits to

our COBRA benefits, but, well, Triple SIgh.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> Really the subject says it all, but I'll tell you about it anyway.

Oh Dear. This sounds like a familar worrisome pattern.

>

> The pain seemed to be in his lower lungs so we looked up pleurisy

and pneumonia and the information we found on those terrified

him. " Will I need surgery? " he gasped, 'Or a shot? "

Now see you should have called me. I could have told him all about

those and reassured him, although he probably wouldn't have believed

me since I wear baby drool mostly and hardly ever wear a white over

coat thingy.

>

> I am not sure which he thinks is worse, but I rather doubted that

either pneumonia or pleurisy would need surgery or shots.

They don't. Motrin for pleursy and depending on viral or bacterial

pneumonia possibly an antibiotic and usually something like albuterol

to open the airways and possibly a very strong dose of a

decongestant/expectorant. Tylenol if needed.

>

> He had no fever, no vomiting, no chills or aches (except the pain

in his chest), no shortness of breath.

>

> My brain told me that this was a minor deal magnified by panic

attack.

Yuppers. But you are wise to the vagaries and wiles of your children

and have seen first hand what they can convince themselves of.

>

and so we were directed to the Terribly Amusing and Enjoyable

Emergency Room.

Which is for really sick people, not imagined sick people so you get

to sit and wait until they are done with the really sick people.

>

> I just knew the trip was totally unnecessary, but Enrique was

doubled over in pain, moaning and groaning, so off I went. I was

lucky that was home and he watched Robbie and Sophie was at

a friend's house, so I only took Putter with me.

Phew. At least you had that going for you.

>

> The trip went well. We were seen almost immediately. I wrote the

alphabet on a piece of paper and Putter spent a nice stimmy time with

it (sometimes autism is convenient) and thus he behaved like a little

woolly lamb.

Amazing. I'm stunned you got in so fast.

>

> There was nothing really wrong with Enrique naturally. They gave

him an antibiotic and told him to take ibuprofen. Sigh. I had to

take him home before getting his prescription because he was

panicking in the car. Double Sigh. Oh, and our insurance company

does not seem to know that we signed up for COBRA benefits after my

_________ husband (you may fill in your choice of expletive in the

blank) quit his job and thus I had to pay in full for visit and

prescription. Yes, it will be reimbursed, when our insurance company

admits to our COBRA benefits, but, well, Triple SIgh.

)#(*% & )#(*$_(#*#_@(#(* & %#)(# & %)_@(*$ - that is my choice of

expletives and <SIGH> just doesn't seem adequate. But, sigh, what

else can one do.

[Guest guest]

> )#(*% & )#(*$_(#*#_@(#(* & %#)(# & %)_@(*$ - that is my choice of

> expletives and <SIGH> just doesn't seem adequate. But, sigh, what

> else can one do.

>

Thanks, . Alas, murder, of either spouse or eldest son, is illegal

due to some really short-sighted laws.

And thanks for the expletive. It looked pretty strong.

Salli

[Guest guest]

Okay, Salli. I was hoping this wasn't going to be necessary, but...we are going

to move Enrique into my house. We'll give him a triple dose of lorazepam (or

his anti-anxiety med of choice), strap his unconcious body into my car, and he

will come live with me.

Now, I do believe he has valid problems. But send him to me, and we'll see what

those problems are, and what problems are caused by him just knowing that he can

get away with being needy and irrational as hell because you love him so much.

Now, I don't love him. Some days I don't even LIKE him. But I DO care about

him, so you can trust me. Besides, we'll get him landed immigrant status and

then the ER visits I DO agree to will be covered by the province.

I am only half joking, btw. I think he is unconciously manipulating everyone's

emotions over there. I don't think he's doing it maliciously; I don't think he

KNOWS he's doing it. But I think he's doing it, all the same.

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/13/2002 11:22:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,

bunnytiner@... writes:

> He spent the whole day acting as if he were in great discomfort, except that

> he

> would improve after taking the ibuprofen and get worse as it wore off.

Do you think he would " improve " if you gave him sugar pills?

[Guest guest]

> But, other than your suggestion about taking him on, what am I do to? He

> spent the whole day acting as if he were in great discomfort, except that he

> would improve after taking the ibuprofen and get worse as it wore off.

That's why I'm only half joking. I don't know if there's anything you *can* do.

You love him. You love him so much. So even when you suspect that his malady

is 99% in his head, as a good mother you HAVE TO entertain his hypochondria --

because what if THIS time he's right? I don't think any mother could do it

differently. That's why I suggested you send him to me -- I'm not his mother!

Does he have any fast-acting anti-anxiety meds, like valium or lorazepam?

>

> He hates the emergency room.

>

> Why would he be doing this?

Okay, I'm going to speculate here, based solely on my experiences being

depressed, which Enrique will inform you is NOT the same. :-) Without fail,

when I am feeling depressed, if I get one thing wrong with me -- a headache, a

pain in my side, whatever, I am CONVINCED it's fatal. Back in October, when I

had two weeks of being dizzy and exhausted before I cut out dairy for good, I

did tons of research and discovered what was wrong with me -- I had leukemia. I

mean, I was utterly CONVINCED I had leukemia. I wrote a new will, I ran around

trying to find a good caregiver for , I called people I hadn't spoken to in

years to set everything right.

Now, as we all know, I didn't have leukemia. It was a simple food intolerance.

But even AFTER I felt better, I never felt ashamed of my overreacting, because

the belief had been so strong -- all I felt was as if I'd cheated the odds

somehow.

Why did I do it? Don't know. I think it's part and parcel with depression.

How did the people around me handle it? Well, Marc dropped me off at the

hospital to get blood tests by myself, and just didn't listen the rest of the

time. I think he was right to do that. After all, if he gets sucked into my

drama, we're both sunk. We;ve talked about that extensively. At one point I

screamed, " CAN'T YOU JUST PRETEND IT'S REAL???? for me? " His amswer? No. I

don't LIKE that answer -- but I can understand it.

What's my point? I have no idea, actually...

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

Jacquie,

I am cracking up at your posts this morning.

Is it me, or are you just hilarious this morning?

But on this Salli and Enrique issue, I agree with you 150 percent, as Salli

knows. Without even knowing him, I think he manipulates all of Salli's

admirable qualities and milks them for all they are worth and then some.

BUT - - on the same token, like you, i don't have a CLUE as to what she

could do to help the situation. I surely don't want to be responsible if

Enrique should fall over with a ruptured appendix one time just because he

was faking it all the times before, you know?

And not only that - - I don't know how Enrique were to react if Salli should

suddenly ignore it.

Salli - - what if you acted like Marc?

How would Enrique behave if you just dropped him off at the ER? I know he

would not go inside, but if you explained that he is old enough to go in by

himself and explain what is wrong with himself to the doctors and

nurses.....

Well, DUH. A panic attack. What else, huh?

As for the valium or lorazepam - - - if Salli can't make him take the meds

that are prescribed for him, I highly doubt she will be able to use the

" grace toothbrush hold " on Enrique to get it down his throat, eh? LOL. I

can just picture it in my mind..... little Salli and a BIG Enrique.. and

Salli muttering, " Get down on the floor, I have to sit on your arms.... "

Grace

Re: Enrique's Second Unnecessary Emergency Room

Visit

> But, other than your suggestion about taking him on, what am I do to? He

> spent the whole day acting as if he were in great discomfort, except that

he

> would improve after taking the ibuprofen and get worse as it wore off.

That's why I'm only half joking. I don't know if there's anything you *can*

do. You love him. You love him so much. So even when you suspect that his

malady is 99% in his head, as a good mother you HAVE TO entertain his

hypochondria -- because what if THIS time he's right? I don't think any

mother could do it differently. That's why I suggested you send him to

me -- I'm not his mother!

Does he have any fast-acting anti-anxiety meds, like valium or lorazepam?

>

> He hates the emergency room.

>

> Why would he be doing this?

Okay, I'm going to speculate here, based solely on my experiences being

depressed, which Enrique will inform you is NOT the same. :-) Without

fail, when I am feeling depressed, if I get one thing wrong with me -- a

headache, a pain in my side, whatever, I am CONVINCED it's fatal. Back in

October, when I had two weeks of being dizzy and exhausted before I cut out

dairy for good, I did tons of research and discovered what was wrong with

me -- I had leukemia. I mean, I was utterly CONVINCED I had leukemia. I

wrote a new will, I ran around trying to find a good caregiver for , I

called people I hadn't spoken to in years to set everything right.

Now, as we all know, I didn't have leukemia. It was a simple food

intolerance. But even AFTER I felt better, I never felt ashamed of my

overreacting, because the belief had been so strong -- all I felt was as if

I'd cheated the odds somehow.

Why did I do it? Don't know. I think it's part and parcel with depression.

How did the people around me handle it? Well, Marc dropped me off at the

hospital to get blood tests by myself, and just didn't listen the rest of

the time. I think he was right to do that. After all, if he gets sucked

into my drama, we're both sunk. We;ve talked about that extensively. At

one point I screamed, " CAN'T YOU JUST PRETEND IT'S REAL???? for me? " His

amswer? No. I don't LIKE that answer -- but I can understand it.

What's my point? I have no idea, actually...

Jacquie

_________________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

(((((Salli))))),

Sorry to hear about yet another excursion to the ER. I'll hold my tongue on

the expletives, I usually don't talk that way. Did Enrique ever start the

Respirdol?

Sue

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[Guest guest]

> As for the valium or lorazepam - - - if Salli can't make him

> take the meds

> that are prescribed for him, I highly doubt she will be able to use the

> " grace toothbrush hold " on Enrique to get it down his throat, eh? LOL. I

> can just picture it in my mind..... little Salli and a BIG Enrique.. and

> Salli muttering, " Get down on the floor, I have to sit on your arms.... "

Two words: Dart Gun.

-Sara.

[Guest guest]

> That's why I'm only half joking. I don't know if there's anything you

*can* do. You love him. You love him so much.

I do think I should make it clear that I am NOT nice about this with him. I

am very snippy and suspicious of him. He gets very little sympathy and not

much attention really as I spent most of my time talking to and playing with

Putter who was quite sweet. And I rather think the whole emergency room

idea is aversive to him.

But those ideas only work if it is attention he seeks, and if he has some

awareness of what he is doing and I don't actually believe he seeks

attention nor do I think he is aware of doing anything. He's interesting to

talk to as a person and I value that so he gets a fair amount of my

attention simply because I need someone intelligent and fun to talk to.

Grace is right about the anxiety meds. He won't take them; he is afraid of

them, and I cannot make him (he weighed 183 pounds at the emergency room

yesterday).

Any ideas appreciated however.

Salli

[Guest guest]

I'll hold my tongue on

> the expletives, I usually don't talk that way.

That's okay, I don't either.

Did Enrique ever start the

> Respirdol?

Yes, he did, after having horrible tantrums on Christmas after which I

explained that he probably hated feeling this way and perhaps the risperidal

would help. He finally agreed because he was so unhappy about it.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> > He spent the whole day acting as if he were in great discomfort, except

that

> > he

> > would improve after taking the ibuprofen and get worse as it wore off.

>

> Do you think he would " improve " if you gave him sugar pills?

>

>

>

Interesting idea, , very interesting idea.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> am very snippy and suspicious of him. He gets very little

> sympathy and not

> much attention really as I spent most of my time talking to and

> playing with

> Putter who was quite sweet. And I rather think the whole emergency room

> idea is aversive to him.

Salli, I can't see him agreeing to go to the ER unless he was actually in

pain. And he does not seem to be an attention-seeking child in general.

Remember, guys, with the sensory issues he may really be feeling severe pain

when we would just feel some discomfort. Or it could be that the mild pain

in his chest gives something for his anxiety to focus on; and as he works

himself up farther, his chest hurst more, which gives him more to worry

about, which works him up tighter still, ...

If Enrique can't tell the difference between Boromir and Aragorn...could he

REALLY be being that manipulative? I don't know that he has the social

skills to manipulate, even unconciously. Acutally it seems like it would be

harder to do unconciuosly, because it seems like he would have to study

Salli's reactions and think about his response and how she would react

and...you get the idea.

I guess this is something I've been thinking a lot about lately because of

Mikey. I'm afraid other people see him as a spoiled, manipulative little

brat, but I honestly don't think he is. I don't think he is, at this point,

capable of manipulation. I have never been the type to give in to him just

because he's having a fit. If I say no, I mean no. If I don't mean no, I

don't say no. I do let things go that other parents might not because, to

me, it's not worth the battle. But still, saying no doesn't mean he won't

have a fit. He has plenty of fits. But they don't get him anything. So

why does he have them? Because he's angry, frustrated, anxious, etc. and he

doesn't have any other way of expressing those feelings. And also because

he doesn't know what " no " means and I am apparently randomly and without

reason refusing him something he wants. But that's another issue...

Anyway, I think I see the Salli in the same situation. Maybe that's just

because I don't have a 14 year old. (Thank God!) But I see Enrique's

anxiety and pain as valid, and the resulting 'tantrums' as release of

emotions he doesn't have any other way of releasing.

What are you supposed to do about it? Not a clue. (Dart gun! Dart gun!)

Why exactly won't he take the meds? I remember you saying a dr had

impressed on him not to take them unless he was *really* having

trouble...Would it help him if a dr listed off symptoms, maybe gave him a

check list? " If you are feeling 2 or more of these things, take this med. "

Just throwing it out there.

I hope he's feeling better!

-Sara.

[Guest guest]

Salli-

I was thinking about the Placebo effect too....but do you think you or a the

doctor could get Enrique to take anything?

.....and what about the next time? Do you give him a placebo everytime this

happens? What if he asks what the medication is?

Just throwing things out there.

Penny

[Guest guest]

he's gained 15lbs in one month?

what has changed so abruptly? do you think it's the meds?

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

>

> he's gained 15lbs in one month?

>

> what has changed so abruptly? do you think it's the meds?

>

> Jacquie

too bad there wasn't some sort of med formulation that was tasteless

that could be baked into food!!

Other than that - I got Zero ideas...

Kerri

[Guest guest]

Salli, I think one important question that hasn't been asked yet is: aside from

the ER visit, how has Enrique been since starting the risperidol? Better, the

same? Is it helping? And the side effects - were they as bad this time?

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

> Salli, I think one important question that hasn't been asked yet is:

aside from the ER visit, how has Enrique been since starting the risperidol?

Better, the same? Is it helping? And the side effects - were they as bad

this time?

>

Well, I am unable to tell if he is better or not because I feel as if I

persuade myself things are better in a hopeful sort of way and then perhaps

there is a placebo effect and Enrique persuades himself he is doing better

and then it all falls apart and we are just where we were.

So I am too cautious to answer this. But we have had a fairly good couple

of weeks, including one panic attack that Enrique did not wake me up for,

but merely came and laid down on my bed. We'll see.

And he has observed NO side effects this time.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> he's gained 15lbs in one month?

>

> what has changed so abruptly? do you think it's the meds?

Well, he weighed 170 a couple of months ago and he is gaining steadily. He

gained about 100 pounds this year I think.

He is very worried about this weight gain. He was thin all his life,

effortlessly thin.

He won't go work out at the Y because he is too fat too be seen. He admitted

to me the other night that it is one of his worries about seeing people. He

doesn't want to be a fat person so he just avoids the whole world.

Meanwhile he does nothing physical and he eats more out of boredom.

I have bought him exercise equipment. I have suggested he come with me to

exercise. I have found Teen diet websites and groups for him to join. I

have suggested that he list all the non-fattening foods he likes and tell

me. I have suggested he plan menus for himself and I would get the food.

Medications may play a part in it too, but it is very very upsetting to

watch.

Salli

[Guest guest]

>>>>>>I have bought him exercise equipment. I have suggested he come with

me to

exercise. I have found Teen diet websites and groups for him to join. I

have suggested that he list all the non-fattening foods he likes and tell

me. I have suggested he plan menus for himself and I would get the food.

<<<<<<<

Salli -

Would he agree to go for a daily 15 - 20 minute walk with you? Maybe

could stay with the other children, or you could mix and

match...at least he'd get out for a bit?

Penny

[Guest guest]

Salli,

Why is Enrique afraid of his meds..did he have a bad

reaction or unpleasant side effects from taking them?

It's hard enough for me to get to take his

medicine when he doesn't want to..he's only 5 an 52

lbs..I can see how there is no way you can make

Enrique take his.

Mimi

--- bunnytiner wrote:

> > That's why I'm only half joking. I don't know if

> there's anything you

> *can* do. You love him. You love him so much.

>

> I do think I should make it clear that I am NOT nice

> about this with him. I

> am very snippy and suspicious of him. He gets very

> little sympathy and not

> much attention really as I spent most of my time

> talking to and playing with

> Putter who was quite sweet. And I rather think the

> whole emergency room

> idea is aversive to him.

>

> But those ideas only work if it is attention he

> seeks, and if he has some

> awareness of what he is doing and I don't actually

> believe he seeks

> attention nor do I think he is aware of doing

> anything. He's interesting to

> talk to as a person and I value that so he gets a

> fair amount of my

> attention simply because I need someone intelligent

> and fun to talk to.

>

> Grace is right about the anxiety meds. He won't

> take them; he is afraid of

> them, and I cannot make him (he weighed 183 pounds

> at the emergency room

> yesterday).

>

> Any ideas appreciated however.

>

> Salli

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

What about power walking or running...he doesn't need

to go to the gym to do this...he can walk or run where

he chooses...you could walk with him if he wants

company.

But, I know, not everyone enjoys this, I do and I

always feel better afterwards.

Mimi

--- bunnytiner wrote:

> > he's gained 15lbs in one month?

> >

> > what has changed so abruptly? do you think it's

> the meds?

>

>

> Well, he weighed 170 a couple of months ago and he

> is gaining steadily. He

> gained about 100 pounds this year I think.

>

> He is very worried about this weight gain. He was

> thin all his life,

> effortlessly thin.

>

> He won't go work out at the Y because he is too fat

> too be seen. He admitted

> to me the other night that it is one of his worries

> about seeing people. He

> doesn't want to be a fat person so he just avoids

> the whole world.

>

> Meanwhile he does nothing physical and he eats more

> out of boredom.

>

> I have bought him exercise equipment. I have

> suggested he come with me to

> exercise. I have found Teen diet websites and

> groups for him to join. I

> have suggested that he list all the non-fattening

> foods he likes and tell

> me. I have suggested he plan menus for himself and

> I would get the food.

>

> Medications may play a part in it too, but it is

> very very upsetting to

> watch.

>

> Salli

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> Why is Enrique afraid of his meds..

All drugs make him nervous. They are dangerous. This is the same person

who is afraid of me when I have a hammer in my hand to hammer a nail or

something. I have never yet hammered a child but you'd never know it from

Enrique's reaction.

did he have a bad

> reaction or unpleasant side effects from taking them?

He did have an unpleasant reaction the first time he took Risperdal, but not

this time. Hooray! Now if it just works.

> It's hard enough for me to get to take his

> medicine when he doesn't want to..he's only 5 an 52

> lbs..I can see how there is no way you can make

> Enrique take his.

No, indeed. In fact, he could make ME take them.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> What about power walking or running...he doesn't need

> to go to the gym to do this...he can walk or run where

> he chooses...you could walk with him if he wants

> company.

>

> But, I know, not everyone enjoys this, I do and I

> always feel better afterwards.

He would feel better afterwards too but it is all too boring he says and he

cannot do boring things.

Boo, hiss. (to Enrique, not to you!)

Salli

[Guest guest]

That's good news, then..I hope he continues to do well

with the Risperdal.

Mimi

--- bunnytiner wrote:

> > Why is Enrique afraid of his meds..

>

> All drugs make him nervous. They are dangerous.

> This is the same person

> who is afraid of me when I have a hammer in my hand

> to hammer a nail or

> something. I have never yet hammered a child but

> you'd never know it from

> Enrique's reaction.

>

>

> did he have a bad

> > reaction or unpleasant side effects from taking

> them?

>

> He did have an unpleasant reaction the first time he

> took Risperdal, but not

> this time. Hooray! Now if it just works.

>

> > It's hard enough for me to get to take his

> > medicine when he doesn't want to..he's only 5 an

> 52

> > lbs..I can see how there is no way you can make

> > Enrique take his.

>

> No, indeed. In fact, he could make ME take them.

>

> Salli

>

>

>

__________________________________________________