Re: Enrique's Second Unnecessary Emergency Room Visit

[Guest guest]

Well, there is just no pleasing that young man..LOL!

Does he like listening to music..I always bring my

Walkman along..that helps alleviate the boredom!

Mimi

--- bunnytiner wrote:

>

> > What about power walking or running...he doesn't

> need

> > to go to the gym to do this...he can walk or run

> where

> > he chooses...you could walk with him if he wants

> > company.

> >

> > But, I know, not everyone enjoys this, I do and I

> > always feel better afterwards.

>

>

> He would feel better afterwards too but it is all

> too boring he says and he

> cannot do boring things.

>

> Boo, hiss. (to Enrique, not to you!)

>

> Salli

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Salli, Weight Watchers will allow teens if they have a medical problem (meds

would fit this criteria) and a doctor's note. You said you wouldn't mind losing

a pound or two; would Enrique agree to go to meetings with you? In larger

centres, there is usually a Weight Watchers office/meeting location that runs a

mom's meeting that includes child minders right in the room as well...

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

Salli

this is what I do to " gauge " when she's hurt - it's all I could think

of. She really loves to play with water so if she falls I run her hands

under the tap. With one exception (a really bad fall against the dresses

that left a nasty bruise) she just stops crying and plays. This is the only

way I can figure out if I can distract her then she's ok if not to the dr we

go.

Hope this helps someone

[Guest guest]

>> All drugs make him nervous. They are dangerous. This is the same

>person who is afraid of me when I have a hammer in my hand to hammer

>a nail or something. I have never yet hammered a child but you'd

>never know it from Enrique's reaction.> >

Salli,

This is a really interesting statement...reminds me of my older son

(14 yo). He has a tough time with visual perception, and with

tactile discrimination---and it shows up in situations like you are

describing with Enrique. It tells you a lot about what is going on

with Enrique's sensory systems and the emotional impact it is having

on him.

For example, one time I was using a long, sharp knife to fix dinner,

and my son came into the kitchen. Now, he was probably 2 feet or

more from the knife, but he stopped cold and said, " Mom, that knife

didn't cut me, did it? " And he's honestly concerned. He can't tell

where the knife is in relation to him, and he can't tell what is

going on in his tactile system well enough to know if he's been cut

by a 7 inch serrated knife! Since then I have watched him, and he is

consistently very vigilant...avoiding even the area in the room where

I am...if I have any " dangerous " object in my hands. It's not that

he doesn't trust me---he can't trust his own perception of things to

help him stay safe.

He worries a LOT about being safe...well, actually, about being

hurt. He is constantly asking questions about whether this or that

minor incident " did any permanent damage " to his body...he has no

ability to discriminate minor injuries from major ones unless someone

steps in, looks at the situation, and says, " That's gonna be fine " .

He also worries a lot about " germs " , and will change his clothes

during the day if something deemed germ-laden gets on him. I don't

challenge him on this if he has done something like take out the

garbage, but I do let him know that it's okay if he wears pants with

a bit of dog drool on them (sometimes he buys it, sometimes he

doesn't). I don't want him to become obsessed with staying totally

germ-free, as he has to live in this world alongside various

microscopic critters, but I also don't make him stay in a situation

where he cannot focus on anything but the perceived threat of deadly

infection...he's not going to learn anything that way, and my thought

is that I have to help him step slowly into those situations so that

he can understand that, yeah, this is okay...I'm going to be okay.

So we are hopefully learning what is and isn't " safe " ...

FWIW, I respect his concerns when he does this, as I truly believe he

is frightened, but I also try to help him assess " the damage " on his

own so that he can start to learn which things are worth getting

upset about and which can go by the wayside...is there a way to do

this with Enrique so that he can start to have some confidence in his

ability to protect himself from harm?

>> He did have an unpleasant reaction the first time he took

Risperdal, but not this time. Hooray! Now if it just works.>>

Medications make you feel weird, especially brain meds, from what I

have seen with and . Actually, I had to take a muscle

relaxant (flexoril) after an accident one time a couple of years ago,

and quit after only a few doses because I couldn't keep track of what

was going on with when medicated. That is one reason I don't

ever consider taking meds to decrease my stress....I think it would

backfire, and make me MORE vigilant, because I would feel myself

losing control. My guess (and this is pure speculation) would be that

Enrique resists the meds because he feels the need to stay vigilant

and they interfere with that...and make him feel MORE stress.

The other piece of this in my mind is the fact that we remember most

strongly things that have an intense emotional component...especially

fear, IMO. Enrique may be dealing with a lot of anxiety related to a

negative experience with some medication, or he may have read or

heard something that is causing him to fear the meds. Remember,

these kids live in fright/flight/fight mode...and once that gets to

be the norm for them, they have no other experience to base a

different view of the world on...the world is scary. The world is to

be avoided if at all possible. The world is where people get hurt.

And because they feel generally incompetent, they feel very

vulnerable to all those " dangerous " things out there...

Don't know if any of this makes sense...I have an early meeting at

the school today (why do they do that?), so I am at this before my

brain is in full gear. Hopefully something useful in there

somewhere...

Raena

[Guest guest]

>

> For example, one time I was using a long, sharp knife to fix dinner,

> and my son came into the kitchen. Now, he was probably 2 feet or

> more from the knife, but he stopped cold and said, " Mom, that knife

> didn't cut me, did it? " And he's honestly concerned. He can't tell

> where the knife is in relation to him, and he can't tell what is

> going on in his tactile system well enough to know if he's been cut

> by a 7 inch serrated knife! Since then I have watched him, and he is

> consistently very vigilant...avoiding even the area in the room where

> I am...if I have any " dangerous " object in my hands. It's not that

> he doesn't trust me---he can't trust his own perception of things to

> help him stay safe.

Thank you for explaining this so beautifully. I cannot believe that Enrique

would not trust me and it is one of the things that was upsetting me when he

would cringe away from me with the hammer. I'll keep this in mind.

>

> He worries a LOT about being safe...well, actually, about being

> hurt. He is constantly asking questions about whether this or that

> minor incident " did any permanent damage " to his body...he has no

> ability to discriminate minor injuries from major ones unless someone

> steps in, looks at the situation, and says, " That's gonna be fine " .

Very true of Enrique too.

>

> He also worries a lot about " germs " , and will change his clothes

> during the day if something deemed germ-laden gets on him. I don't

> challenge him on this if he has done something like take out the

> garbage, but I do let him know that it's okay if he wears pants with

> a bit of dog drool on them (sometimes he buys it, sometimes he

> doesn't). I don't want him to become obsessed with staying totally

> germ-free, as he has to live in this world alongside various

> microscopic critters, but I also don't make him stay in a situation

> where he cannot focus on anything but the perceived threat of deadly

> infection...he's not going to learn anything that way, and my thought

> is that I have to help him step slowly into those situations so that

> he can understand that, yeah, this is okay...I'm going to be okay.

> So we are hopefully learning what is and isn't " safe " ...

Oh, boy, we have this one too. Paper plates and cups and plastic utensils

and he only uses every other paper plate and cup because the outside ones

have been exposed to germs. It's just awful.

>

> FWIW, I respect his concerns when he does this, as I truly believe he

> is frightened, but I also try to help him assess " the damage " on his

> own so that he can start to learn which things are worth getting

> upset about and which can go by the wayside...is there a way to do

> this with Enrique so that he can start to have some confidence in his

> ability to protect himself from harm?

I don't know. Logic is not terribly useful, of course. It doesn't help

that Enrique is technically correct and knows it. There ARE germs

everywhere. Hammers can hurt you and so can knives and even if your mother

loves you and would not use such things against you, accidents can happen.

Enrique wants ZERO risk and zero risk just does not happen.

> Medications make you feel weird, especially brain meds, from what I

> have seen with and . Actually, I had to take a muscle

> relaxant (flexoril) after an accident one time a couple of years ago,

> and quit after only a few doses because I couldn't keep track of what

> was going on with when medicated. That is one reason I don't

> ever consider taking meds to decrease my stress....I think it would

> backfire, and make me MORE vigilant, because I would feel myself

> losing control. My guess (and this is pure speculation) would be that

> Enrique resists the meds because he feels the need to stay vigilant

> and they interfere with that...and make him feel MORE stress.

Now he says exactly that sometimes; that taking medications to reduce stress

makes him more stressed out even when the medications work. What an

enlightening point of view.

>

> The other piece of this in my mind is the fact that we remember most

> strongly things that have an intense emotional component...especially

> fear, IMO. Enrique may be dealing with a lot of anxiety related to a

> negative experience with some medication, or he may have read or

> heard something that is causing him to fear the meds. Remember,

> these kids live in fright/flight/fight mode...and once that gets to

> be the norm for them, they have no other experience to base a

> different view of the world on...the world is scary. The world is to

> be avoided if at all possible. The world is where people get hurt.

> And because they feel generally incompetent, they feel very

> vulnerable to all those " dangerous " things out there...

Yes, again.

>

> Don't know if any of this makes sense...I have an early meeting at

> the school today (why do they do that?), so I am at this before my

> brain is in full gear. Hopefully something useful in there

> somewhere...

Raena:

Are you a genius? Are you an empath? You really seem to understand

Enrique, although it does sound a bit as if you have a version of him

yourself.

Thanks so much for your illuminating input.

Salli

[Guest guest]

>

> Salli, I can't see him agreeing to go to the ER unless he was actually in

> pain. And he does not seem to be an attention-seeking child in general.

No to both of those observations. He was quite genuinely upset about the ER

visit and he does not seek attention. He talks non-stop about more or less

interesting subjects but he does not mind if you leave the room. He just

continues talking.

>

> Remember, guys, with the sensory issues he may really be feeling severe

pain

> when we would just feel some discomfort. Or it could be that the mild

pain

> in his chest gives something for his anxiety to focus on; and as he works

> himself up farther, his chest hurst more, which gives him more to worry

> about, which works him up tighter still, ...

That is exactly what I thought was happening but I could not see any way to

break this cycle. His pain threshold has always been non-existent. When he

was a toddler I could not let him wear shorts unless he wore these knee pads

that I made out of his old socks because when he fell down he was utterly

unconsolable. None of my other children have ever needed those knee pads.

Boy, I should have known something was up, shouldn't I?

>

> If Enrique can't tell the difference between Boromir and Aragorn...could

he

> REALLY be being that manipulative? I don't know that he has the social

> skills to manipulate, even unconciously. Acutally it seems like it would

be

> harder to do unconciuosly, because it seems like he would have to study

> Salli's reactions and think about his response and how she would react

> and...you get the idea.

Well, I do wonder about manipulation even though I see little evidence of

Enrique having any capabilities that way. I guess it is just one of those

self-doubt things; all this is happening because I am a bad parent and if I

had better control, things would go better. I don't really believe that

most of the time, but doubts creep in.

>

> I guess this is something I've been thinking a lot about lately because of

> Mikey. I'm afraid other people see him as a spoiled, manipulative little

> brat, but I honestly don't think he is. I don't think he is, at this

point,

> capable of manipulation. I have never been the type to give in to him

just

> because he's having a fit. If I say no, I mean no. If I don't mean no, I

> don't say no.

I did this with Putter; I just sat out all his tantrums. It may have

actually been worth it because he is not terribly tantrum-ish nowadays. So

hang in there; Mikey is such a baby still.

I do let things go that other parents might not because, to

> me, it's not worth the battle.

Yup. Gotta pick those battles...

But still, saying no doesn't mean he won't

> have a fit. He has plenty of fits. But they don't get him anything. So

> why does he have them? Because he's angry, frustrated, anxious, etc. and

he

> doesn't have any other way of expressing those feelings. And also because

> he doesn't know what " no " means and I am apparently randomly and without

> reason refusing him something he wants. But that's another issue...

Right. That is just absolutely what I saw in Putter. And it really does

get better, Sara, it really does.

>

> Anyway, I think I see the Salli in the same situation. Maybe that's just

> because I don't have a 14 year old. (Thank God!) But I see Enrique's

> anxiety and pain as valid, and the resulting 'tantrums' as release of

> emotions he doesn't have any other way of releasing.

Thanks, Sara! And I also thank those who have questioned Enrique's motives

because whatever is going on with him, I don't really know (although I think

Raena may have the best understanding) and I am not shutting off any ideas

or thoughts that might be helpful.

>

> What are you supposed to do about it? Not a clue. (Dart gun! Dart gun!)

Yeah, but the house is kind of full and I don't suppose he would stand there

waiting for me to shoot him with it? Not after the first time anyway. Just

imagine me running through the house, dart gun in hand, shooting and hitting

kitties and kids, but always missing Enrique.

Hmm. It would be a quiet house afterwards, wouldn't it.

Dart gun! Dart gun!

>

> Why exactly won't he take the meds? I remember you saying a dr had

> impressed on him not to take them unless he was *really* having

> trouble...Would it help him if a dr listed off symptoms, maybe gave him a

> check list? " If you are feeling 2 or more of these things, take this

med. "

I don't know if that would help. Lists tend to make him more obsessive and

he starts defining things way too rigorously. It's an idea to consider

though.

Thanks so much for your input, Sara. Hope your doctor's visit is good

today.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> unconsolable. None of my other children have ever needed those knee pads.

> Boy, I should have known something was up, shouldn't I?

> >

You know the answer is 'no'. He was your first. Nobody knows what's different

about their first until it can be no longer denied.

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

>

> > unconsolable. None of my other children have ever needed those knee

pads.

> > Boy, I should have known something was up, shouldn't I?

> > >

>

>

> You know the answer is 'no'. He was your first. Nobody knows what's

different about their first until it can be no longer denied.

>

I know. But you just keep thinking that so many signs were there. Quite a

few times I had people ask me what was up with him and I just thought those

people were dim.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> > > Boy, I should have known something was up, shouldn't I?

> > > >

> >

> >

> > You know the answer is 'no'. He was your first. Nobody knows what's

> different about their first until it can be no longer denied.

> >

>

>

> I know. But you just keep thinking that so many signs were

> there. Quite a

> few times I had people ask me what was up with him and I just

> thought those

> people were dim.

It doesn't matter how early you get the dx, you still think that. Everyone

tells me how lucky I am to have a dx so early, and all I can think is, " It

should have been earlier. " (Closely followed by many expletives about

waiting lists.)

I know a woman who is going through this with her ONE year old and she feels

the same way. " I should have known when... " How many of us would give our

right arms to have had a dx at 1?

-Sara.

[Guest guest]

> Well, I am unable to tell if he is better or not because I feel as if I

> persuade myself things are better in a hopeful sort of way and then

perhaps

> there is a placebo effect and Enrique persuades himself he is doing better

> and then it all falls apart and we are just where we were.

>

> So I am too cautious to answer this. But we have had a fairly good couple

> of weeks, including one panic attack that Enrique did not wake me up for,

> but merely came and laid down on my bed. We'll see.

>

> And he has observed NO side effects this time.

>

> Salli

>

So we shall say we are hopefully optomistic??

Sue

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[Guest guest]

Oh, Salli, this is awful. To have such a wonderful

talent like Enrique has..and for him to lose all

interest. He must be very depressed. Can you keep

encouraging him to give writing music for videos a

try..maybe doing something new with music will get him

interested again.

Hugs,

Mimi

--- bunnytiner wrote:

> >

> > Does he like listening to music..I always bring my

> > Walkman along..that helps alleviate the boredom!

>

> Now this depresses me. Three years ago I had a very

> gifted musician who had

> won composition competitions and had the local

> symphony orchestra play his

> piece. He regularly entered composition

> competitions and always got an

> honorable mention. He played piano, viola and flute;

> he was first chair in

> his orchestra and he won the piano competition for

> the music camp that he

> attended. He took a private theory and composition

> class that was on a

> graduate student level.

>

> Now I have a teenager who takes no music lessons and

> plays no instruments

> any more. Even composing music which he has done

> since he was three years

> old, he no longer does. He does not listen to music

> and he says he doesn't

> write down music, although he still has plenty in

> his head because " it is

> too much trouble. "

>

> Everything is too much trouble. Depression, I know,

> but it is so sad and so

> strange to have my child who lived and breathed

> music just really ignoring

> it.

>

> Sometimes he says he would like to write music for

> video games. Sigh.

>

> Salli

>

>

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