RE: Re: Valium (was: A question or 2)

August 17, 2012

hi khaya,thanks. actually, i've been sleeping well considering the taper. usually sleep is quite bad with the benzo taper, but i feel i've lucked out.was able to use herbs and supps to help and they work well last night.

it is unbelievable the difference in my mood. it has been getting better the last month, but this last wk have seen great improvement. i can even laugh now as i can see humor and good things. i did not realize how far down i had slipped mentally and emotionally.

now i can pursue many more herbal supps etc. to help naturally.barbara

Hi Barbara!

Congratulations on weaning yourself from valium! Hope you slept well last night without it... That's huge! It must be such a relief, and I'm so happy for you!

Khaya

>

> hi jodie,

>

> was wondering where you were. haven't heard from you in a while.

>

> glad to hear you are making progress. how is wyatt?

>

> i will contact you about the b.w. formula.

>

> ohhhh!!! tonight will be my first night without any valium. i have

> tapered down to just a piece of a pill. have done better with it lately,

> so have made the tapers every week instead of every 2 wks. not

> anticipating any problems other than just some slight stuff. this last

> couple months i have improved in mental mood and physical ability.

> although, going so long without doing much, it is sometimes hard to get

> back into doing stuff. habits !! then there are the lyme 'stuff'.

>

> barbara

August 17, 2012

WOW! That sounds great! How amazing! : )

hi khaya,

thanks. actually, i've been sleeping well considering the taper. usually sleep is quite bad with the benzo taper, but i feel i've lucked out.

was able to use herbs and supps to help and they work well last night.

it is unbelievable the difference in my mood. it has been getting better the last month, but this last wk have seen great improvement. i can even laugh now as i can see humor and good things. i did not realize how far down i had slipped mentally and emotionally.

now i can pursue many more herbal supps etc. to help naturally.

barbara

Hi Barbara!

Congratulations on weaning yourself from valium! Hope you slept well last night without it... That's huge! It must be such a relief, and I'm so happy for you!

Khaya

>

> hi jodie,

>

> was wondering where you were. haven't heard from you in a while.

>

> glad to hear you are making progress. how is wyatt?

>

> i will contact you about the b.w. formula.

>

> ohhhh!!! tonight will be my first night without any valium. i have

> tapered down to just a piece of a pill. have done better with it lately,

> so have made the tapers every week instead of every 2 wks. not

> anticipating any problems other than just some slight stuff. this last

> couple months i have improved in mental mood and physical ability.

> although, going so long without doing much, it is sometimes hard to get

> back into doing stuff. habits !! then there are the lyme 'stuff'.

>

> barbara

August 17, 2012

Congratulation Barbara !

Kindly marie

To: Lyme_and_Rife Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 9:38 PMSubject: Re: Re: Valium (was: A question or 2)

WOW! That sounds great! How amazing! : )

hi khaya,thanks. actually, i've been sleeping well considering the taper. usually sleep is quite bad with the benzo taper, but i feel i've lucked out.was able to use herbs and supps to help and they work well last night.it is unbelievable the difference in my mood. it has been getting better the last month, but this last wk have seen great improvement. i can even laugh now as i can see humor and good things. i did not realize how far down i had slipped mentally and emotionally. now i can pursue many more herbal supps etc. to help naturally.barbara

Hi Barbara!Congratulations on weaning yourself from valium! Hope you slept well last night without it... That's huge! It must be such a relief, and I'm so happy for you!Khaya >> hi jodie,> > was wondering where you were. haven't heard from you in a while.> > glad to hear you are making progress. how is wyatt?> > i will contact you about the b.w. formula.> > ohhhh!!! tonight will be my first night without any valium. i have>

tapered down to just a piece of a pill. have done better with it lately,> so have made the tapers every week instead of every 2 wks. not> anticipating any problems other than just some slight stuff. this last> couple months i have improved in mental mood and physical ability.> although, going so long without doing much, it is sometimes hard to get> back into doing stuff. habits !! then there are the lyme 'stuff'.> > barbara

August 17, 2012

hi lorrie,so glad to here from you. sorry i couldn't remember that it was you with the water thing. glad it's getting better. the valium. 7.5 3x day. that is 22.5 a day. when i crossed over from the klonipin of 1 mg. a day, the equivalent in valium was 20 mg. i have just completed 18 mo. of taper to get off it.

NOW: you may not experience the seizures at all. not everyone does. i had w/d too fast off the klon. sending me into seizures, so i was really set up for a rough ride. however, i will tell you, not to scare you about tapering off, but for info.

i was talking with a therapist and she said there are 2 w/d that can kill you if not done right, alcohol and benzos. most w/d clinics won't take a benzo patient because they are afraid of the seizures, but i think that is because they do it in a wk. hospital will do it but in 5 days. that is way to fast. but again, not everyone has seizures. and because you have just been on valium and not the other stronger ones, you may not have a hard time.

i am going to guess that the feelings of being overwhelmed are tolerance withdrawal. the worst mental/emotional part for me was i lost all my coping abilities. but if you are experiencing that, it is time to take a look at getting off. the longer you are on, the more intense that feeling will become, along with a lot of other unwanted side effects.

if you decide to get off, plan on at least 18 months of tapering. any faster may be hard for you as you have kids to care for, and that is the safest way. i was fortunate to be able to do nothing. but again, with my age and the fast klon w/d, mine was very difficult. if you take it slowly, it may not be too hard. and the longer you stay on it the harder it will be to get off.

here is where i would start.

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/ most benzo support groups use her manual.for other info just google in benzo withdrawal and pick a site. here is a support group: http://www.benzobuddies.org/

the problem with the benzos is that they fill the gaba receptor sites. these are the sites that should be filled with serotonin etc., that make us feel good. but benzos fill them, not allowing our own chemicals to fill the sites, and then we don't produce any. the benzos, i was told, damage the sites. the slow taper allows time for our brain to heal.

in her manual they suggest not using anything that would fill those sites. so, anything that would sedate or stimulate. that's the scary part. but it is very necessary. in fact, by taking other things now, trying to make up for what the valium is doing/not doing anymore, maybe adding to your symptoms.

read the manual and let me know what you think. best to hear it from the professional and then decide your plan of action. i have no regrets of getting off. i though i would never see this day. thought i'd never see the world in color again. you won't realize how this drug has affected you until you are off. when you're off and look back to where you really were, that is the scariest part.

if you decide to get off, the people here will support you and hang in there with you on those crazy days. they did for me.barbara

Barbara,

Sorry I dropped out on our previous conversation. Your last post (and all of them before) gave me some very good information. I had meant to at least send a thank you. It's been pretty rough lately getting the homeschooling going again and all.

Anyway, I was wondering how much Valium you were on. I am on 7.5 mg 3xday, and have been for years. I know by now my body has built enough tolerance that it isn't helping anything. It's a left-over from a nightmare of a year full of psychiatric medicines that I was put on by my not-so-Lyme literate LLMD. When his protocol of a few months of oral antibiotics (and no mention of co-infections) didn't make me better, then I must just need an anti-depressant to get me kick-started again. When that didn't work, he added another and another and another before dumping me off on a shrink who continued the pattern. I finally made them stop almost everything. I've been thinking lately that I would really like to try and wean off of the Valium, but, wow--I don't know if I could handle adding in possible seizures and all on top of my current situation. I'm barely surviving as it is.

Also, what herbs did you use? I use Valerian sometimes to help deal with what the Valium is supposed to be doing--mostly just feeling overwhelmed (I call it nervous-system-overload), though sometimes for shaking. If I'm desperate, I'll sometimes take Benadryl, though that brings its own issues if taken often enough. I have something homeopathic here for anxiety (prn usage), but I'm not positive it really does anything.

I've done the anti-depressant withdrawal before--it's nasty, but short in comparison. Maybe a month beginning to end. This sounds worse. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Congratulations on your successful battle with this and with the progress on the babs. I hope you finally get relief from your air hunger, et al. (There are a lot of people on here--as a reminder, I was the one who posted recently about the air hunger and cravings for water. Mine has calmed down for the most part, but I haven't coiled again yet because the first round of Essiac has been rough on me. We'll see what comes with the next herx.)

Hope all are having better days.

Lorrie

> >>>

> >>> hi jodie,

> >>>

> >>> was wondering where you were. Â haven't heard from you in a while.

> >>>

> >>> glad to hear you are making progress. Â how is wyatt?

> >>>

> >>> i will contact you about the b.w. formula.

> >>>

> >>> ohhhh!!! Â tonight will be my first night without any valium. Â i have

> >>> tapered down to just a piece of a pill. Â have done better with it lately,

> >>> so have made the tapers every week instead of every 2 wks. Â not

> >>> anticipating any problems other than just some slight Â stuff. Â this last

> >>> couple months i have improved in mental mood and physical ability.

> >>> Â although, going so long without doing much, it is sometimes hard to get

> >>> back into doing stuff. habits !! Â Â then there are the lyme 'stuff'.

> >>>

> >>> barbara

> >>

> >>Â

> >>Â Â Â

> >>Â

> >>

> >Â

> >Â Â Â

> >

>

August 17, 2012

Hi,I am recently diagnoses with neuro lyme-had it for several years-I think. Do you all do home tests for adrenal and sugar. I don't have a LLMD where I live. One docotr nuked me with antibiotics and I am working with another doctor who is an md but is now only using holistic. He is good but only been working with lyme for 7 mos. I am so sick and worried about adrenal thryroid,sugar etc.. Any help would be huge. I am looking into ordering a adrenal saliva test from Canary Club but a bit expensive. If anyone monitors there on or could help that would be great.. To: Lyme_and_Rife Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 6:36 AM Subject: Re: Valium (was: A question or 2)

Hi Barbara!

Congratulations on weaning yourself from valium! Hope you slept well last night without it... That's huge! It must be such a relief, and I'm so happy for you!

Khaya

>

> hi jodie,

>

> was wondering where you were. haven't heard from you in a while.

>

> glad to hear you are making progress. how is wyatt?

>

> i will contact you about the b.w. formula.

>

> ohhhh!!! tonight will be my first night without any valium. i have

> tapered down to just a piece of a pill. have done better with it lately,

> so have made the tapers every week instead of every 2 wks. not

> anticipating any problems other than just some slight stuff. this last

> couple months i have improved in mental mood and physical ability.

> although, going so long without doing much, it is sometimes hard to get

> back into doing stuff. habits !! then there are the lyme 'stuff'.

>

> barbara

August 17, 2012

Hii take valium sporadically, but when i take it its alote. il take it every four days but il take about 50 or 60 mg. at night to sleep or from extreme stress. for a while i didn t take it for a week or two so im not sure if its a physical addictions or just phychological because of my stress level. When i did try to get off it mostly for sleep probems i tried anything that would keep me calm not was not in the same chemical famly as valium. I took high blood pressur pills, which i don t recomment, but i took them and they did calm me and make me sleep without any need for valium, i took them for a few weeks i got off them only because felt to tired to do anything.DamariseTo: Lyme_and_Rife From: lorrie_richter@...Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 05:30:44 +0000Subject: Re: Valium (was: A question or 2)

Barbara,

Sorry I dropped out on our previous conversation. Your last post (and all of them before) gave me some very good information. I had meant to at least send a thank you. It's been pretty rough lately getting the homeschooling going again and all.

Anyway, I was wondering how much Valium you were on. I am on 7.5 mg 3xday, and have been for years. I know by now my body has built enough tolerance that it isn't helping anything. It's a left-over from a nightmare of a year full of psychiatric medicines that I was put on by my not-so-Lyme literate LLMD. When his protocol of a few months of oral antibiotics (and no mention of co-infections) didn't make me better, then I must just need an anti-depressant to get me kick-started again. When that didn't work, he added another and another and another before dumping me off on a shrink who continued the pattern. I finally made them stop almost everything. I've been thinking lately that I would really like to try and wean off of the Valium, but, wow--I don't know if I could handle adding in possible seizures and all on top of my current situation. I'm barely surviving as it is.

Also, what herbs did you use? I use Valerian sometimes to help deal with what the Valium is supposed to be doing--mostly just feeling overwhelmed (I call it nervous-system-overload), though sometimes for shaking. If I'm desperate, I'll sometimes take Benadryl, though that brings its own issues if taken often enough. I have something homeopathic here for anxiety (prn usage), but I'm not positive it really does anything.

I've done the anti-depressant withdrawal before--it's nasty, but short in comparison. Maybe a month beginning to end. This sounds worse. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Congratulations on your successful battle with this and with the progress on the babs. I hope you finally get relief from your air hunger, et al. (There are a lot of people on here--as a reminder, I was the one who posted recently about the air hunger and cravings for water. Mine has calmed down for the most part, but I haven't coiled again yet because the first round of Essiac has been rough on me. We'll see what comes with the next herx.)

Hope all are having better days.

Lorrie

> >>>

> >>> hi jodie,

> >>>

> >>> was wondering where you were. Â haven't heard from you in a while.

> >>>

> >>> glad to hear you are making progress. Â how is wyatt?

> >>>

> >>> i will contact you about the b.w. formula.

> >>>

> >>> ohhhh!!! Â tonight will be my first night without any valium. Â i have

> >>> tapered down to just a piece of a pill. Â have done better with it lately,

> >>> so have made the tapers every week instead of every 2 wks. Â not

> >>> anticipating any problems other than just some slight Â stuff. Â this last

> >>> couple months i have improved in mental mood and physical ability.

> >>> Â although, going so long without doing much, it is sometimes hard to get

> >>> back into doing stuff. habits !! Â Â then there are the lyme 'stuff'.

> >>>

> >>> barbara

> >>

> >>Â

> >>Â Â Â

> >>Â

> >>

> >Â

> >Â Â Â

> >

>

August 17, 2012

Dct S. a genius dct 86 years old told me pregnolone was assasine to be given to any very sick personn as it is the precursor of the stress hormone and age one rapidly and was giving instead the georvitla that rejuvinating the body and th ehormone was doing an much better job .

I do not know better than what he told me by telephonne no documentation andthis is just what he told me .

I do nto give advise to anybody I amnto a dct this is just what I experimented with a genial dct who had been creating several very advanced treatment including georvital as an assistant of dct Aslan when he was a young dct

Kindly Marie

To: Lyme_and_Rife Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 12:34 PMSubject: Re: Valium (was: A question or 2)

,Hi. If you have insurance, your md can order extensive blood tests for all of your hormones. They're expensive, so I don't know how possible it would be if you don't have insurance. He wouldn't have to use Lyme as a diagnosis. He could just put fatigue, etc. I was fortunate to have a dr who had been through severe hormone deficiencies herself, and knew what to look for. It is very common for Lyme patients to have low hormone production. Personally, I have several hormones that are very deficient, including some where numbers that should be above 100 are in the teens. I was researching it at one point and came across a dr who wrote that if she had a patient with significantly reduced hormone levels involving several different hormones, she would test for Lyme. So, very common in Lymies. And these are not just the hormones we normally think of. There is a hormone called the "mother hormone" or even "grandmother hormone" called

Pregnenalone. (Can't guarantee I spelled that right.) It is key to normal production of several other hormones, and one of the ones that is in the teens for me personally. I tried bio identical hormones, which are hormones that are synthesized in a lab to be an exact match to the hormones your body produces. Synthetic versions of a substance that is found in nature are not patentable. This contributes to the controversy surrounding them and explains why they're not covered by insurance. The controversy comes from two places--they're not patentable, so Big Pharma doesn't mess with them and doesn't like it when people don't pay for their versions instead, and, a more important controversy, whether or not they stop your body from producing what it would naturally produce. This last part has to do with age. If you are young enough that your body should be producing plenty of this hormone itself--go carefully, and under the guidance of a qualified dr

using reliable testing. The body can't tell the difference between the bio identical and the actual hormones produced by your body, so it will pull back on its own production if it sees adequate hormone amounts in your body, forcing the pills to do all the work. However, past a certain age, your body is not as likely to be producing adequate levels anyway, even in a healthy patient. However, the bio identicals made me a mess. I was more prone to crying spells, etc., though there were other issues going on in my life that were possibly contributing. (Husband out of town for a month, brother-in-law dying of cancer, etc.) I just didn't feel like I was getting any benefit from the hormones, but I was having possible side effects, so I stopped taking them. My dr uses them though, and she is a bundle of energy, but she doesn't have Lyme. It makes a huge difference. A naturopath once told me that as I am treating the Lyme, my hormones will be

all over the place. I don't know that to be true. He had only dealt with 3 Lyme patients before, and they are not well, maybe better, and don't even use him anymore. He mostly works with cancer patients. So I don't use him anymore, and don't know if what he said was true for Lyme patients or not. Rife was only a small part of his treatment plan, and he didn't use a good machine. But it might be worth further research. I hope something here was helpful. It's good that you have a holistic md. He will be able to order certain tests and things that a naturopath might not be able to. Good luck, and I hope you get some answers. Hope all are seeing better days. Lorrie> >> > hi jodie,> > > > was wondering where you were. haven't heard from you in a while.> > > > glad to hear you are making progress. how is wyatt?> > > > i will contact you about the b.w. formula.> > > > ohhhh!!! tonight will be my first night without any valium. i have> > tapered down to just a piece of a pill. have done better with it

lately,> > so have made the tapers every week instead of every 2 wks. not> > anticipating any problems other than just some slight stuff. this last> > couple months i have improved in mental mood and physical ability.> > although, going so long without doing much, it is sometimes hard to get> > back into doing stuff. habits !! then there are the lyme 'stuff'.> > > > barbara>

August 18, 2012

I have so bad heart palpitations and anxiety and 114 pulse rate, and had not slept for 2 weeks while on Pregnenelone 100 mg, as my LLMD prescribed. I sent them a nasty email about it and the page from the Google about the side effects. I will try the 5 mg, but now I will know the symptoms. Not sure this is a good pill for us Lymies.

Nevenka

From: Marie Benoit

Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 3:48 PM

To: Lyme_and_Rife

Subject: Re: Re: Valium (was: A question or 2)

Dct S. a genius dct 86 years old told me pregnolone was assasine to be given to any very sick personn as it is the precursor of the stress hormone and age one rapidly and was giving instead the georvitla that rejuvinating the body and th ehormone was doing an much better job .

I do not know better than what he told me by telephonne no documentation andthis is just what he told me .

I do nto give advise to anybody I amnto a dct this is just what I experimented with a genial dct who had been creating several very advanced treatment including georvital as an assistant of dct Aslan when he was a young dct

Kindly Marie

To: Lyme_and_Rife Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 12:34 PMSubject: Re: Valium (was: A question or 2)

,Hi. If you have insurance, your md can order extensive blood tests for all of your hormones. They're expensive, so I don't know how possible it would be if you don't have insurance. He wouldn't have to use Lyme as a diagnosis. He could just put fatigue, etc. I was fortunate to have a dr who had been through severe hormone deficiencies herself, and knew what to look for. It is very common for Lyme patients to have low hormone production. Personally, I have several hormones that are very deficient, including some where numbers that should be above 100 are in the teens. I was researching it at one point and came across a dr who wrote that if she had a patient with significantly reduced hormone levels involving several different hormones, she would test for Lyme. So, very common in Lymies. And these are not just the hormones we normally think of. There is a hormone called the "mother hormone" or even "grandmother hormone" called Pregnenalone. (Can't guarantee I spelled that right.) It is key to normal production of several other hormones, and one of the ones that is in the teens for me personally. I tried bio identical hormones, which are hormones that are synthesized in a lab to be an exact match to the hormones your body produces. Synthetic versions of a substance that is found in nature are not patentable. This contributes to the controversy surrounding them and explains why they're not covered by insurance. The controversy comes from two places--they're not patentable, so Big Pharma doesn't mess with them and doesn't like it when people don't pay for their versions instead, and, a more important controversy, whether or not they stop your body from producing what it would naturally produce. This last part has to do with age. If you are young enough that your body should be producing plenty of this hormone itself--go carefully, and under the guidance of a qualified dr using reliable testing. The body can't tell the difference between the bio identical and the actual hormones produced by your body, so it will pull back on its own production if it sees adequate hormone amounts in your body, forcing the pills to do all the work. However, past a certain age, your body is not as likely to be producing adequate levels anyway, even in a healthy patient. However, the bio identicals made me a mess. I was more prone to crying spells, etc., though there were other issues going on in my life that were possibly contributing. (Husband out of town for a month, brother-in-law dying of cancer, etc.) I just didn't feel like I was getting any benefit from the hormones, but I was having possible side effects, so I stopped taking them. My dr uses them though, and she is a bundle of energy, but she doesn't have Lyme. It makes a huge difference. A naturopath once told me that as I am treating the Lyme, my hormones will be all over the place. I don't know that to be true. He had only dealt with 3 Lyme patients before, and they are not well, maybe better, and don't even use him anymore. He mostly works with cancer patients. So I don't use him anymore, and don't know if what he said was true for Lyme patients or not. Rife was only a small part of his treatment plan, and he didn't use a good machine. But it might be worth further research. I hope something here was helpful. It's good that you have a holistic md. He will be able to order certain tests and things that a naturopath might not be able to. Good luck, and I hope you get some answers. Hope all are seeing better days. Lorrie> >> > hi jodie,> > > > was wondering where you were. haven't heard from you in a while.> > > > glad to hear you are making progress. how is wyatt?> > > > i will contact you about the b.w. formula.> > > > ohhhh!!! tonight will be my first night without any valium. i have> > tapered down to just a piece of a pill. have done better with it lately,> > so have made the tapers every week instead of every 2 wks. not> > anticipating any problems other than just some slight stuff. this last> > couple months i have improved in mental mood and physical ability.> > although, going so long without doing much, it is sometimes hard to get> > back into doing stuff. habits !! then there are the lyme 'stuff'.> > > > barbara>

August 18, 2012

hi alicia,>>>>>>I was on ambien and was able to wean myself off that horrible pill (3 nights w/o sleep did it), I'm now taking a benzo to sleep, I've cut the dose in half and have tried to cut it again, but I can't seem to relax unless I take it.>>>>

congratulations on getting off the ambien. those sleep drugs are known as the 'z' drugs and they are very dangerous.

did you know that the 'date rape drug' is actually one of the benzo drugs. gives you a whole new perspective on their dangers.

what benzo are you on??

makes a big difference as some have a short half life. these are the more dangerous ones to get off of. according to the heather ashton manual

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/ it is easier to get off of these if you 'cross over' to a longer half life one, usually valium, and then taper off the valium. easier on the body/brain.

a cross over is when you take the mg of one, say klonipin at 1 mg, and take the equivalence of valium, 20 mg., then as you slowly reduce the dose of the klon, you increase the equivalence of the valium. when you are off the klon. you will be taking 20 mg. of valium. this is what i had to do.

then you start tapering the valium by 10% each 2-3 wks. NOW: if you cut your dose in half, that is way beyond 10% and this can bring about major side effects!!!! these drugs will give you the same symptoms of what they are suppose to suppress as you reduce them. if you reduce them too quickly, they will give you major symptoms, and you THINK it is your old symptoms back, needing more meds. BUT, it is actually the withdrawal of the drug.

if you go to your dr., he most likely will increase the meds, and it WILL temporarily suppress the symptoms again, until you reach 'tolerance withdrawal', and then the problems start all over again. yes, it is crazy.

not being able to relax may well be the anxiety of the w/d, especially if you have reduced too quickly.

when i initially did my 'cross over' from klon to valium, i had been on only 1/2 mg p.m.. because i had not increased it over the 3+ yrs on it, i was actually in tolerance withdrawal all those yrs. ( they were originally only intended for and approved for very short periods of time, as in days.) because of the seizures and severe w/d symptoms, i had to increase the klon. to 1 mg. just to stabilize, then could start on the crossover. so be very careful not to decrease too quickly. it is very dangerous.

>>>What supps, herbs do you take that have helped you sleep? I've heard 5htp is good. Do take mag. orally? I use the mag. oil spray cut w/water, but don't do it daily b/c it stings my skin.>>>>

there are several herbs that may help. melatonin, l-tryptophan, 5 htp, mag oil before bedtime. the mag oil will sometimes burn if you start out full strength. dilute it with distilled or reverse osmosis water to about 50/50, increasing as you can. foot soaks of 1 oz mag oil, starting with a small amount of hot water, adding more as it cools. i also added Epsom salts to boost the mag content in the beginning. i found i could get more in me with the foot baths--no stinging. relax for an hour in the evening and do a ft. bath.

there are others that i cannot think of now. there is one that i always hesitate to mention, but it is legal for me. we live in a legal medical marijuana state and i am a legal med. m.j. patient so i use it in capsule form to sleep. it works well for that and also many of my herx, anxiety, stomach and pain symptoms. but never do this if it is illegal for you. actually, while withdrawing from the benzo, i was not able to use it, and have only recently restarted it.

when coming off the benzos there may be some rough times. to avoid many worsening side effects i had to be careful what i took. nothing to sedate or stimulate. even caffeine bothers some. they also suggest, if possible, take nothing, allowing your brain to heal. so you have to weigh your choices. i chose to struggle through the w/d side effects in the beginning. then i slowly added one thing at a time many months into the taper to see if i could tolerate it.

many have increased sleep and anxiety with w/d. again, that may be what you are experiencing now. when you reduce very slowly, (it took me 18 mo--which is average--and safer) it really helps to lesson the side effects. i found that my worse anxiety and sleep problems were if i reduced more than 10% or didn't do the 2-3 wk wait. the first 5 days after reduction may be a little rough, but then it will smooth out and you can really enjoy life.

i hope i have not overwhelmed you with info. there is so much to share. i do hope you take a look at the ashton manual. it is loaded with all the info you will need. you will need a dr. to help with the valium prescriptions. don't be surprised that your dr. may know nothing about how to w/d, so if you do this, educate yourself first. i will also help in any way i can if you need me.

you do not realize how far down a benzo has taken you until you get off it. and you will be amazed at the improvement of your lyme symptoms, which were actually benzo symptoms, with being benzo free.

barbara

Dct S. a genius dct 86 years old told me pregnolone was assasine to be given to any very sick personn as it is the precursor of the stress hormone and age one rapidly and was giving instead the georvitla that rejuvinating the body and th ehormone was doing an much better job .

I do not know better than what he told me by telephonne no documentation andthis is just what he told me .

I do nto give advise to anybody I amnto a dct this is just what I experimented with a genial dct who had been creating several very advanced treatment including georvital as an assistant of dct Aslan when he was a young dct

Kindly Marie

To: Lyme_and_Rife Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 12:34 PM

Subject: Re: Valium (was: A question or 2)

,Hi. If you have insurance, your md can order extensive blood tests for all of your hormones. They're expensive, so I don't know how possible it would be if you don't have insurance. He wouldn't have to use Lyme as a diagnosis. He could just put fatigue, etc. I was fortunate to have a dr who had been through severe hormone deficiencies herself, and knew what to look for.

It is very common for Lyme patients to have low hormone production. Personally, I have several hormones that are very deficient, including some where numbers that should be above 100 are in the teens. I was researching it at one point and came across a dr who wrote that if she had a patient with significantly reduced hormone levels involving several different hormones, she would test for Lyme. So, very common in Lymies. And these are not just the hormones we normally think of. There is a hormone called the " mother hormone " or even " grandmother hormone " called

Pregnenalone. (Can't guarantee I spelled that right.) It is key to normal production of several other hormones, and one of the ones that is in the teens for me personally. I tried bio identical hormones, which are hormones that are synthesized in a lab to be an exact match to the hormones your body produces. Synthetic versions of a substance that is found in nature are not patentable. This contributes to the controversy surrounding them and explains why they're not covered by insurance. The controversy comes from two places--they're not patentable, so Big Pharma doesn't mess with them and doesn't like it when people don't pay for their versions instead, and, a more important controversy, whether or not they stop your body from producing what it would naturally produce. This last part has to do with age. If you are young enough that your body should be producing plenty of this hormone itself--go carefully, and under the guidance of a qualified dr

using reliable testing. The body can't tell the difference between the bio identical and the actual hormones produced by your body, so it will pull back on its own production if it sees adequate hormone amounts in your body, forcing the pills to do all the work. However, past a certain age, your body is not as likely to be producing adequate levels anyway, even in a healthy patient.

However, the bio identicals made me a mess. I was more prone to crying spells, etc., though there were other issues going on in my life that were possibly contributing. (Husband out of town for a month, brother-in-law dying of cancer, etc.) I just didn't feel like I was getting any benefit from the hormones, but I was having possible side effects, so I stopped taking them. My dr uses them though, and she is a bundle of energy, but she doesn't have Lyme. It makes a huge difference.

A naturopath once told me that as I am treating the Lyme, my hormones will be

all over the place. I don't know that to be true. He had only dealt with 3 Lyme patients before, and they are not well, maybe better, and don't even use him anymore. He mostly works with cancer patients. So I don't use him anymore, and don't know if what he said was true for Lyme patients or not. Rife was only a small part of his treatment plan, and he didn't use a good machine. But it might be worth further research.

I hope something here was helpful. It's good that you have a holistic md. He will be able to order certain tests and things that a naturopath might not be able to. Good luck, and I hope you get some answers.

Hope all are seeing better days. Lorrie

> >> > hi jodie,> > > > was wondering where you were. haven't heard from you in a while.> > > > glad to hear you are making progress. how is wyatt?> >

> > i will contact you about the b.w. formula.> > > > ohhhh!!! tonight will be my first night without any valium. i have> > tapered down to just a piece of a pill. have done better with it

lately,> > so have made the tapers every week instead of every 2 wks. not> > anticipating any problems other than just some slight stuff. this last> > couple months i have improved in mental mood and physical ability.

> > although, going so long without doing much, it is sometimes hard to get> > back into doing stuff. habits !! then there are the lyme 'stuff'.> > > > barbara>

August 18, 2012

Hi, I have neuro lyme and the first thing I would suggest is to get tested for reverse t3.. If positive you will get scripts for t3 which I am on and help me dramatically.Â I find that on t3 my body aches reduce dramatically I think better, am not cold all the time and Iâ€™veÂ lost weight and have more energy.Â The other thing I have found is serraptase when on large doses built to 3 tabs am and pm of 40 000 units ( I use Doctors best as for size I found them the cheapest).Â My upper legs which ache got worse and then the ache went away and my circulation improved dramatically and I no longer get aching legs or new spider veins.Â I also found the lumps Â under my skin in my body disappeared.Â I think it does deal with fibrin and helps dissolve cysts but only at high doses for me.Â For adrenals, you need a docs help!!Â I took extremely low dose steroids which rested by adrenals until they kicked in, but I did not know I had Lyme at the time or I would never have done it!!!!Â I probably would have tried adrenal support supplements I donâ€™t know.Â I had full blown chronic fatigue ( a symptom) and lack of adrenal function can be dangerous.Â Â You need a good Llmd. Then there is Lyme treatment!!!! There is so much out there!Â Â I used colloidal silver for ages and it helped me heaps recover basic functions but did not cure.Â I did salt c with the same results as silver.Â Antibiotics low dose over ages helped me the most.Â I am now off antibiotics and trying rife and will add in mms.Â 2 of my kids are struggling on antibiotics ( though they did help dramatically for a while and got them back to school )and are about to start the cowden protocol.Â One child is on antibiotics successfully and also uses rife, I am going to add in serraptase with her soon.Â My husband is on antibiotics.protocol I was on and seems fine...so we are trying quite a few modalities and watching what works and realising what works for one, may not be the best for someone else. All the best From: Lyme_and_Rife [mailto:Lyme_and_Rife ] On Behalf Of nne RossettieSent: Friday, 17 August 2012 10:10 PMTo: Lyme_and_Rife Subject: Re: Re: Valium (was: A question or 2) Hi, I am recently diagnoses with neuro lyme-had it for several years-I think. Do you all do home tests for adrenal and sugar. I don't have a LLMD where I live. One docotr nuked me with antibiotics and I am working with another doctor who is an md but is now only using holistic. He is good but only been working with lyme for 7 mos. I am so sick and worried about adrenal thryroid,sugar etc.. Any help would be huge. I am looking into ordering a adrenal saliva test from Canary Club but a bit expensive. If anyone monitors there on or could help that would be great.. To: Lyme_and_Rife Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 6:36 AMSubject: Re: Valium (was: A question or 2) Hi Barbara!Congratulations on weaning yourself from valium! Hope you slept well last night without it... That's huge! It must be such a relief, and I'm so happy for you!Khaya >> hi jodie,> > was wondering where you were. haven't heard from you in a while.> > glad to hear you are making progress. how is wyatt?> > i will contact you about the b.w. formula.> > ohhhh!!! tonight will be my first night without any valium. i have> tapered down to just a piece of a pill. have done better with it lately,> so have made the tapers every week instead of every 2 wks. not> anticipating any problems other than just some slight stuff. this last> couple months i have improved in mental mood and physical ability.> although, going so long without doing much, it is sometimes hard to get> back into doing stuff. habits !! then there are the lyme 'stuff'.> > barbara

August 18, 2012

Wow, so sorry to hear your story, when I used this I used the 5mg only and broke that if half or quarter as it was all I needed!Â Cheers From: Lyme_and_Rife [mailto:Lyme_and_Rife ] On Behalf Of NevenkaSent: Saturday, 18 August 2012 8:34 AMTo: Lyme_and_Rife Subject: Re: Re: Valium (was: A question or 2) I have so bad heart palpitations and anxiety and 114 pulse rate, and had not slept for 2 weeks while on Pregnenelone 100 mg, as my LLMD prescribed. I sent them a nasty email about it and the page from the Google about the side effects. I will try the 5 mg, but now I will know the symptoms. Not sure this is a good pill for us Lymies. Nevenka From: Marie Benoit Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 3:48 PMTo: Lyme_and_Rife Subject: Re: Re: Valium (was: A question or 2) Dct S. a genius dct 86 years old told me pregnolone was assasine to be given to any very sick personn as it is the precursor of the stress hormone and age one rapidly and was giving instead the georvitla that rejuvinating the body and th ehormone was doing an much better job .I do not know better than what he told me by telephonne no documentation andthis is just what he told me .I do nto give advise to anybody I amnto a dct this is just what I experimented with a genial dct who had been creating several very advanced treatment including georvital as an assistant of dct Aslan when he was a young dctKindly Marie To: Lyme_and_Rife Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 12:34 PMSubject: Re: Valium (was: A question or 2) ,Hi. If you have insurance, your md can order extensive blood tests for all of your hormones. They're expensive, so I don't know how possible it would be if you don't have insurance. He wouldn't have to use Lyme as a diagnosis. He could just put fatigue, etc. I was fortunate to have a dr who had been through severe hormone deficiencies herself, and knew what to look for. It is very common for Lyme patients to have low hormone production. Personally, I have several hormones that are very deficient, including some where numbers that should be above 100 are in the teens. I was researching it at one point and came across a dr who wrote that if she had a patient with significantly reduced hormone levels involving several different hormones, she would test for Lyme. So, very common in Lymies. And these are not just the hormones we normally think of. There is a hormone called the " mother hormone " or even " grandmother hormone " called Pregnenalone. (Can't guarantee I spelled that right.) It is key to normal production of several other hormones, and one of the ones that is in the teens for me personally. I tried bio identical hormones, which are hormones that are synthesized in a lab to be an exact match to the hormones your body produces. Synthetic versions of a substance that is found in nature are not patentable. This contributes to the controversy surrounding them and explains why they're not covered by insurance. The controversy comes from two places--they're not patentable, so Big Pharma doesn't mess with them and doesn't like it when people don't pay for their versions instead, and, a more important controversy, whether or not they stop your body from producing what it would naturally produce. This last part has to do with age. If you are young enough that your body should be producing plenty of this hormone itself--go carefully, and under the guidance of a qualified dr using reliable testing. The body can't tell the difference between the bio identical and the actual hormones produced by your body, so it will pull back on its own production if it sees adequate hormone amounts in your body, forcing the pills to do all the work. However, past a certain age, your body is not as likely to be producing adequate levels anyway, even in a healthy patient. However, the bio identicals made me a mess. I was more prone to crying spells, etc., though there were other issues going on in my life that were possibly contributing. (Husband out of town for a month, brother-in-law dying of cancer, etc.) I just didn't feel like I was getting any benefit from the hormones, but I was having possible side effects, so I stopped taking them. My dr uses them though, and she is a bundle of energy, but she doesn't have Lyme. It makes a huge difference. A naturopath once told me that as I am treating the Lyme, my hormones will be all over the place. I don't know that to be true. He had only dealt with 3 Lyme patients before, and they are not well, maybe better, and don't even use him anymore. He mostly works with cancer patients. So I don't use him anymore, and don't know if what he said was true for Lyme patients or not. Rife was only a small part of his treatment plan, and he didn't use a good machine. But it might be worth further research. I hope something here was helpful. It's good that you have a holistic md. He will be able to order certain tests and things that a naturopath might not be able to. Good luck, and I hope you get some answers. Hope all are seeing better days. Lorrie> >> > hi jodie,> > > > was wondering where you were. haven't heard from you in a while.> > > > glad to hear you are making progress. how is wyatt?> > > > i will contact you about the b.w. formula.> > > > ohhhh!!! tonight will be my first night without any valium. i have> > tapered down to just a piece of a pill. have done better with it lately,> > so have made the tapers every week instead of every 2 wks. not> > anticipating any problems other than just some slight stuff. this last> > couple months i have improved in mental mood and physical ability.> > although, going so long without doing much, it is sometimes hard to get> > back into doing stuff. habits !! then there are the lyme 'stuff'.> > > > barbara>

August 18, 2012

Hie ,

This genious Doctor did not need all the test they are doing now he just asked me a few questionon the telephonne and gave me also

armor thyroid and 10 drops of iodine every day . he told me to take 1/4 of armothyroid increasing every week of 1/4 until I feel confortable

and checking my blood pressure pulse and temperature and to come back to me wheni would be at 1pill per day . The very good dct they do not need all theses testing . Nowaday Dct are piling up test instead of treating adequatly . I personnaly preferes the old fashion way and feel confident in the epxerience and expertise of an old very talented dct .

marie

To: Lyme_and_Rife Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 11:53 AMSubject: Re: Valium (was: A question or 2)

What Marie said makes sense. If you research Pregnenolone and see just how many hormones if affects, it may well be true that some of them would be bad for us Lymies. I had a bad experience trying to supplement it, and seemingly I am not alone. In my opinion, is good to know which hormones you are deficient in if possible, because it can help guide you with system support supplements (I don't know much about these, as I'm still trying to get the basics of simple vitamin/mineral supplementation for Lymies figured out and have no ND or LLMD to help). I'm glad to see other posts showing at-home tests for adrenal fatigue, so as to avoid the cost. I've never tried them personally. And my experience is not to expect any help from an endocrinologist. I even went to a special teaching hospital, well known in the US Southeast, about 2 hrs from my house. He looked at my numbers, which were low, and basically (and rather rudely) gave me the

"why are you here?" treatment. I had gone there because the local endocrinologist I went to pretty much acted the same way. Hope all are seeing better days. Lorrie> > >> > > hi jodie,> > > > > > was wondering where you were. haven't heard from you in a while.> > > > > > glad to hear you are making progress. how is wyatt?> > > > > > i will contact you about

the b.w. formula.> > > > > > ohhhh!!! tonight will be my first night without any valium. i have> > > tapered down to just a piece of a pill. have done better with it lately,> > > so have made the tapers every week instead of every 2 wks. not> > > anticipating any problems other than just some slight stuff. this last> > > couple months i have improved in mental mood and physical ability.> > > although, going so long without doing much, it is sometimes hard to get> > > back into doing stuff. habits !! then there are the lyme 'stuff'.> > > > > > barbara> >>

August 19, 2012

hi susie,>>>>>I didn't know that legal marijuana can come in capsule form. I would love to be able to try that for sleep. My state has recently become a medical marijuana state, but it's very strict, only terminal illness etc. I don't think even with all the physical & mental symptoms I have that my doctor would let me try it. May I ask what is an m.j.patient? I have recently started using GABA in the evening plus 2 homeopathic pills & they seem to help somewhat, but I still have difficulty falling & staying asleep.

i make my own capsules from plants i grow myself. wanted only organic and you can't trust others to grow that, just like foods. i figured if i'm taking this for my health, it better not contain chemical. we just dry it and put it in a food processor to make it very fine. then cook it in low temp oven, cool and put in capsules. i like this because i never get a mental high but it takes care of the body problems. the anxiety goes away without even knowing it or feeling anything. and it will last 4-6 hours for me as it has to go through the liver, where as if someone smokes it it only last for 2 hrs. tops.

m.j. is short for marijuana. so m.j. patient is marijuana patient. sorry your state is so stringent. i feel it is so much safer than all the pharmaceutical drugs. i know this one won't kill me.

barbara

Hie ,

This genious Doctor did not need all the test they are doing now he just asked me a few questionon the telephonne and gave me also

armor thyroid and 10 drops of iodine every day . he told me to take 1/4 of armothyroid increasing every week of 1/4 until I feel confortable

and checking my blood pressure pulse and temperature and to come back to me wheni would be at 1pill per day . The very good dct they do not need all theses testing . Nowaday Dct are piling up test instead of treating adequatly . I personnaly preferes the old fashion way and feel confident in the epxerience and expertise of an old very talented dct .

marie

To: Lyme_and_Rife Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 11:53 AM

Subject: Re: Valium (was: A question or 2)

What Marie said makes sense. If you research Pregnenolone and see just how many hormones if affects, it may well be true that some of them would be bad for us Lymies. I had a bad experience trying to supplement it, and seemingly I am not alone.

In my opinion, is good to know which hormones you are deficient in if possible, because it can help guide you with system support supplements (I don't know much about these, as I'm still trying to get the basics of simple vitamin/mineral supplementation for Lymies figured out and have no ND or LLMD to help). I'm glad to see other posts showing at-home tests for adrenal fatigue, so as to avoid the cost. I've never tried them personally.

And my experience is not to expect any help from an endocrinologist. I even went to a special teaching hospital, well known in the US Southeast, about 2 hrs from my house. He looked at my numbers, which were low, and basically (and rather rudely) gave me the

" why are you here? " treatment. I had gone there because the local endocrinologist I went to pretty much acted the same way. Hope all are seeing better days. Lorrie

> > >

> > > hi jodie,> > > > > > was wondering where you were. haven't heard from you in a while.> > > > > > glad to hear you are making progress. how is wyatt?

> > > > > > i will contact you about

the b.w. formula.> > > > > > ohhhh!!! tonight will be my first night without any valium. i have> > > tapered down to just a piece of a pill. have done better with it lately,> > > so have made the tapers every week instead of every 2 wks. not

> > > anticipating any problems other than just some slight stuff. this last> > > couple months i have improved in mental mood and physical ability.> > > although, going so long without doing much, it is sometimes hard to get

> > > back into doing stuff. habits !! then there are the lyme 'stuff'.> > > > > > barbara> >>

August 19, 2012

hi susie,>>>>>I didn't know that legal marijuana can come in capsule form. I would love to be able to try that for sleep. My state has recently become a medical marijuana state, but it's very strict, only terminal illness etc. I don't think even with all the physical & mental symptoms I have that my doctor would let me try it. May I ask what is an m.j.patient? I have recently started using GABA in the evening plus 2 homeopathic pills & they seem to help somewhat, but I still have difficulty falling & staying asleep.

i make my own capsules from plants i grow myself. wanted only organic and you can't trust others to grow that, just like foods. i figured if i'm taking this for my health, it better not contain chemical. we just dry it and put it in a food processor to make it very fine. then cook it in low temp oven, cool and put in capsules. i like this because i never get a mental high but it takes care of the body problems. the anxiety goes away without even knowing it or feeling anything. and it will last 4-6 hours for me as it has to go through the liver, where as if someone smokes it it only last for 2 hrs. tops.

m.j. is short for marijuana. so m.j. patient is marijuana patient. sorry your state is so stringent. i feel it is so much safer than all the pharmaceutical drugs. i know this one won't kill me.

barbara

Hie ,

This genious Doctor did not need all the test they are doing now he just asked me a few questionon the telephonne and gave me also

armor thyroid and 10 drops of iodine every day . he told me to take 1/4 of armothyroid increasing every week of 1/4 until I feel confortable

and checking my blood pressure pulse and temperature and to come back to me wheni would be at 1pill per day . The very good dct they do not need all theses testing . Nowaday Dct are piling up test instead of treating adequatly . I personnaly preferes the old fashion way and feel confident in the epxerience and expertise of an old very talented dct .

marie

To: Lyme_and_Rife Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 11:53 AM

Subject: Re: Valium (was: A question or 2)

What Marie said makes sense. If you research Pregnenolone and see just how many hormones if affects, it may well be true that some of them would be bad for us Lymies. I had a bad experience trying to supplement it, and seemingly I am not alone.

In my opinion, is good to know which hormones you are deficient in if possible, because it can help guide you with system support supplements (I don't know much about these, as I'm still trying to get the basics of simple vitamin/mineral supplementation for Lymies figured out and have no ND or LLMD to help). I'm glad to see other posts showing at-home tests for adrenal fatigue, so as to avoid the cost. I've never tried them personally.

And my experience is not to expect any help from an endocrinologist. I even went to a special teaching hospital, well known in the US Southeast, about 2 hrs from my house. He looked at my numbers, which were low, and basically (and rather rudely) gave me the

" why are you here? " treatment. I had gone there because the local endocrinologist I went to pretty much acted the same way. Hope all are seeing better days. Lorrie

> > >

> > > hi jodie,> > > > > > was wondering where you were. haven't heard from you in a while.> > > > > > glad to hear you are making progress. how is wyatt?

> > > > > > i will contact you about

the b.w. formula.> > > > > > ohhhh!!! tonight will be my first night without any valium. i have> > > tapered down to just a piece of a pill. have done better with it lately,> > > so have made the tapers every week instead of every 2 wks. not

> > > anticipating any problems other than just some slight stuff. this last> > > couple months i have improved in mental mood and physical ability.> > > although, going so long without doing much, it is sometimes hard to get

> > > back into doing stuff. habits !! then there are the lyme 'stuff'.> > > > > > barbara> >>

August 19, 2012

hi lorrie,i've been rereading your last post to me. i'll comment after each paragraph.

>>>>One of the things I mentioned earlier was shaking. There are a few different triggers that I have identified as causes for that, but occasionally I have wondered if some of the shaking is related to w/d, since it sometimes hits when it's been an unusually long time since my last dose. I am also on Oxycodone, but I think it's the Valium that's causing it, if it is actually w/d. Weather systems and hormones are two other triggers, and sometimes there seems to be something in my sleep patterns that sets it off. I have actually woken up because I was shaking so hard I could feel my body hitting against the mattress (but not bouncing, just pressing down harder--hard to explain). It's not a seizure. Every now and then I wake up and am shaking even harder, especially when it's an alarm that wakes me as opposed to waking up by myself, but I can usually fall right back to sleep for 5-10 minutes, and when I wake up again, it's gone or much better.>>>>>

i am VERY concerned about the shaking. these are probably not seizures as you say, but i believe they are convulsions, or at the very least, are on their way to convulsions. the fact that your body is hitting against the mattress is no where near normal and sounds like it is becoming dangerous. and that they come when you are a while from your last dose. do you have lots of restless leg shaking? shaking inside? legs, arms start shaking then moves in the engulf the entire body?

lorrie, these episodes won't become less intense or less frequent, but will become more intense and closer together if you don't increase the dosages or go through a safe w/d. i am very worried about you.

your sleep pattern is probably regulated by the drug, so it is setting them off, not the sleep pattern itself.

do you ever have trouble waking up in the morning, as if you are in a stoupper? days when the mental fog is deeper and unable to communicate? very extreme fatigue? crying, teary eyed, weepy feeling? mornings when you wake up feeling in 'terror', not just anxiety. legs, arms, tingling and it moves towards your body, then numb feeling? mental pain? overwhelmed having to 'think' or 'do' more than just one or a few things, or figure things out? no coping ability? very irritable? wanting to throw things from frustration? feel like you don't know who you are anymore? deep, within the brain anxiety, like you are going crazy? feeling that you won't make it, or that you may die? feeling hopeless, helpless overwhelmed? obsessive thinking that just keeps cycling and won't stop, especially when you go to bed and try to sleep?

the oxycodone will add to the problem. you can't mix these strong drugs safely.

They should really have to warn you when they put you on this stuff what it's like when it's time to come off. " Don't stop taking this medicine suddenly " doesn't cut it. I'm just glad that I set 7.5 as my personally-mandated limit. When it stopped being effective, I refused to ask for a higher dose. I should have done more research before starting it, but I was in a really bad place. Thankfully I have strong religious beliefs that stopped me from hurting myself, but I got to the place that I understand why people cut themselves or even kill themselves. Physical pain would be preferable to the mental " pain " /anxiety going on inside. And it feels like it will never end. But it did. When they took me off the drugs that were causing it. When is the medical community going to understand that we're sick, not crazy???

i thought i read that you took 7.5 mg, 3x a day. did i misread that? that would be 22.5 mg.the fact that it stopped being effective tells you that the tolerance w/d has begun.

like you, i have a very strong faith that has sustained me since i was 6 but it did not stop me from trying to harm myself a few days after the acute w/d that ended in the e.r. when this drug w/d kicks in, it is in control of you. try as you may, it will control you.

about 2 days after the e.r. trip, while i was trying to get stabilized, my husband left me for only a couple hours. i sat in the living room and decided to throw things around (one of the acute side effects). made a pretty good mess. then i went upstairs to take a bath. just wanted the mental pain to stop (another acute side effect). didn't like the book i tried to read. got out of the tub, took a couple 'pills' of something (another acute side effect), then sat in the closet and tore the book up (and another acute side effect). i passed out from the pills.

my husband found me like that, carried me to the bed, where i went into seizures again (another acute side effect). probably from the pills i had taken in combinations with the instability of the klonipin. this all was very much out of character for me. and i was never left a lone for many, many months after that. even today my husband will call out to me when he doesn't see me, just to make sure i'm ok. these drugs are not only not fair to us, but to those who love us also.

most of the time, drs will increase the meds to stop the side effects of the w/d tolerance. they just think (ignorantly?) that the original problems is increasing and that you need more meds. i'm not sure if they have bought into the drug co.'s propaganda, are stupid/ignorant, don't care-as you take your problem and go away, but will come back for repeat business, or all the above. not one dr in 4 warned me about any of this. in fact, the one who helped me with a valium prescriptions, had no idea this was a problem of the drug. a special kind of 'stupid'.

For what it's worth, I was researching something on here the other day and came across some of your old posts. I'm not sure if you had started the benzo w/d at that point or not, but you sound a lot better now than you did then. And I think that others were telling you that you were sounding better to them at that time than you had earlier. So you've seemingly made a lot of progress. Again, I say congrats, and you give those of us starting the journey hope.

i started the acute w/d in april of 2011, however, i started having days of feeling like i was in a stoupper and very negative thinking clear back to the early fall of 2010. i started 'losing' who i was within just 6 months of being on the drug. within days of taking the drug i had a.m. pain in my legs, waking up with feelings of 'terror' every morning until just a few months ago.

what is troublesome, is that because we are so sick we don't notice that it is the drug's side effects and not the lyme. we think our lyme is getting so much worse, but in fact, it is the drug. i thought i was getting so much worse with the lyme. i now know, it is not the lyme that was getting worse, but the drug. now, i can see that.

lorrie, please take a look at the ashton manual and read the w/d symptoms. see where you are in this drug w/d. she will also talk about the toxicity of these drugs, part of the problem. please take care of yourself, for you, as well as your family. they need you.

barbaraa

hi susie,>>>>>I didn't know that legal marijuana can come in capsule form. I would love to be able to try that for sleep. My state has recently become a medical marijuana state, but it's very strict, only terminal illness etc. I don't think even with all the physical & mental symptoms I have that my doctor would let me try it. May I ask what is an m.j.patient? I have recently started using GABA in the evening plus 2 homeopathic pills & they seem to help somewhat, but I still have difficulty falling & staying asleep.

i make my own capsules from plants i grow myself. wanted only organic and you can't trust others to grow that, just like foods. i figured if i'm taking this for my health, it better not contain chemical. we just dry it and put it in a food processor to make it very fine. then cook it in low temp oven, cool and put in capsules. i like this because i never get a mental high but it takes care of the body problems. the anxiety goes away without even knowing it or feeling anything. and it will last 4-6 hours for me as it has to go through the liver, where as if someone smokes it it only last for 2 hrs. tops.

m.j. is short for marijuana. so m.j. patient is marijuana patient. sorry your state is so stringent. i feel it is so much safer than all the pharmaceutical drugs. i know this one won't kill me.

barbara

Hie ,

This genious Doctor did not need all the test they are doing now he just asked me a few questionon the telephonne and gave me also

armor thyroid and 10 drops of iodine every day . he told me to take 1/4 of armothyroid increasing every week of 1/4 until I feel confortable

and checking my blood pressure pulse and temperature and to come back to me wheni would be at 1pill per day . The very good dct they do not need all theses testing . Nowaday Dct are piling up test instead of treating adequatly . I personnaly preferes the old fashion way and feel confident in the epxerience and expertise of an old very talented dct .

marie

To: Lyme_and_Rife Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 11:53 AM

Subject: Re: Valium (was: A question or 2)

What Marie said makes sense. If you research Pregnenolone and see just how many hormones if affects, it may well be true that some of them would be bad for us Lymies. I had a bad experience trying to supplement it, and seemingly I am not alone.

In my opinion, is good to know which hormones you are deficient in if possible, because it can help guide you with system support supplements (I don't know much about these, as I'm still trying to get the basics of simple vitamin/mineral supplementation for Lymies figured out and have no ND or LLMD to help). I'm glad to see other posts showing at-home tests for adrenal fatigue, so as to avoid the cost. I've never tried them personally.

And my experience is not to expect any help from an endocrinologist. I even went to a special teaching hospital, well known in the US Southeast, about 2 hrs from my house. He looked at my numbers, which were low, and basically (and rather rudely) gave me the

" why are you here? " treatment. I had gone there because the local endocrinologist I went to pretty much acted the same way. Hope all are seeing better days. Lorrie

> > >

> > > hi jodie,> > > > > > was wondering where you were. haven't heard from you in a while.> > > > > > glad to hear you are making progress. how is wyatt?

> > > > > > i will contact you about

the b.w. formula.> > > > > > ohhhh!!! tonight will be my first night without any valium. i have> > > tapered down to just a piece of a pill. have done better with it lately,> > > so have made the tapers every week instead of every 2 wks. not

> > > anticipating any problems other than just some slight stuff. this last> > > couple months i have improved in mental mood and physical ability.> > > although, going so long without doing much, it is sometimes hard to get

> > > back into doing stuff. habits !! then there are the lyme 'stuff'.> > > > > > barbara> >>

August 20, 2012

hi lorrie,just read your reply. lots of info for both of us. it's late here so i can't respond to everything, but will on just a few now and try to catch the rest later.

sorry, i didn't mean YOU were in denial. you are not as you are open to looking at this. sorry if i worded it wrong.the fact that you are having those 'stouper' mornings do concern me. i started those about 6+ months before i had the acute w/d. however, i had been on the klon, a shorter half life and much stronger. i was on 1/2 mg which is equal to 10 mg. valium. i had to cross over to valium (getting off klon safely) and then traper down off the valium. you are only on the valium, a big plus for you. just monitor those, ok. make sure they don't get worse.

some of the symptoms we experience on the drugs is that they are toxic, and they give similar symptoms as the toxic effects of the bugs we are killing. all toxins. heather ashton talks about this in the manual. i'm really glad you are reading it.

take care, will work on the rest of the ?s later.barbara

Hi Barbara, I will respond after your questions in blue. First of all, let me say that I have already started reading the manual (but it may take me a while because of my short attention span). I am definitely planning to come off of the Valium, but especially after reading your post, it may have to wait a couple of months, since my husband may have an extended business trip coming up. There are places where I will question whether some of the symptoms are related to the Valium. I'm not in denial. I know this is bad stuff and that I very well may be in some of the stages of withdrawal, but some of the symptoms happen regardless of the amount of time it's been since my last dose, and others were happening at least occasionally before I started the Valium. That being said, the answers are below.

>> hi lorrie,

> > i've been rereading your last post to me. i'll comment after each> paragraph.> > >>>>One of the things I mentioned earlier was shaking. There are a few> different triggers that I have identified as causes for that, but

> occasionally I have wondered if some of the shaking is related to w/d,> since it sometimes hits when it's been an unusually long time since my last> dose. I am also on Oxycodone, but I think it's the Valium that's causing

> it, if it is actually w/d. Weather systems and hormones are two other> triggers, and sometimes there seems to be something in my sleep patterns> that sets it off. I have actually woken up because I was shaking so hard I

> could feel my body hitting against the mattress (but not bouncing, just> pressing down harder--hard to explain). It's not a seizure. Every now and> then I wake up and am shaking even harder, especially when it's an alarm

> that wakes me as opposed to waking up by myself, but I can usually fall> right back to sleep for 5-10 minutes, and when I wake up again, it's gone> or much better.>>>>>> > i am VERY concerned about the shaking. these are probably not seizures as

> you say, but i believe they are convulsions, or at the very least, are on> their way to convulsions. the fact that your body is hitting against the> mattress is no where near normal and sounds like it is *becoming

> dangerous.* and that they come when you are a while from your last> dose. It is not always related to the time since the last dose, but sometimes I think it is--it's nothing I can prove, but just sort of a feeling, like a thought tugging in the back of my mind. As I said, the shaking is also worse when weather fronts move through or at certain points in my hormone cycles. Also, if I'm off-schedule with my meds, it's usually because I've had an unusual day, like a trip to the dr office, which is too difficult for me to handle on my own at this time, especially when I'm herxing. So, a difficult event for my body, even though it sounds small. do you have

> lots of restless leg shaking? No. shaking inside? Yes. legs, arms start shaking> then moves in the engulf the entire body? Not really. If I shake, it's usually either my arms or all over, but it doesn't seem to move from one place to another. EmergenC helps stops some of the body " jerks " I get while trying to sleep, so I think there may also be some electrolyte imbalances.

> > lorrie, these episodes won't become less intense or less frequent, but> will become more intense and closer together if you don't increase the> dosages or go through a safe w/d. i am very worried about you.

> > your sleep pattern is probably regulated by the drug, so it is setting them> off, not the sleep pattern itself.> > do you ever have trouble waking up in the morning, as if you are in a

> stoupper? Yes. days when the mental fog is deeper and unable to communicate? Yes-ish. I have a hard time holding onto a thought, but able to talk and communicate, which pre-dates the Valium.

> very extreme fatigue? Extreme fatigue pre-dates the Valium, as does the irritability and frustration. crying, teary eyed, weepy feeling? Some, again seemingly related to hormone cycles more than anything else. mornings when

> you wake up feeling in 'terror', not just anxiety. No. legs, arms, tingling> and it moves towards your body, then numb feeling? No. mental pain? No.

> overwhelmed having to 'think' or 'do' more than just one or a few things,> or figure things out? Yes. no coping ability? No. very irritable? wanting to

> throw things from frustration? See above, though I keep the urge to throw things under control--kids at home help with that, needing to be an example and all, all of the time. feel like you don't know who you are

> anymore? No. deep, within the brain anxiety, like you are going crazy? No.> feeling that you won't make it, or that you may die? Not unless I'm having symptoms that would warrant such thoughts--numbness on one side, etc. It doesn't happen often, but occasionally. feeling hopeless,

> helpless overwhelmed? Overwhelmed, yes--but because I can't get my body to do all of the things I need it too--each new thing to do is a physical struggle that I often just can't win. obsessive thinking that just keeps cycling and won't

> stop, especially when you go to bed and try to sleep?> Not obsessive cycling, but it is hard to settle down and go to bed sometimes. Usually I'm ok once I get there.

> the oxycodone will add to the problem. you can't mix these strong drugs> safely.All of my doctors know every medicine that I'm on, including supplements, and I write down the time I take each medication so as to avoid accidental overdose. I read on the drug info sheets that both types of drugs are nervous-system depressants, so I understand the danger. Interestingly, no dr has ever mentioned it. And the Oxy comes from a pain clinic and the Valium from a psychiatrist. You would think they'd have said something.

> > They should really have to warn you when they put you on this stuff what> it's like when it's time to come off. " Don't stop taking this medicine> suddenly " doesn't cut it. I'm just glad that I set 7.5 as my

> personally-mandated limit. When it stopped being effective, I refused to> ask for a higher dose. I should have done more research before starting it,> but I was in a really bad place. Thankfully I have strong religious beliefs

> that stopped me from hurting myself, but I got to the place that I> understand why people cut themselves or even kill themselves. Physical pain> would be preferable to the mental " pain " /anxiety going on inside. And it

> feels like it will never end. But it did. When they took me off the drugs> that were causing it. When is the medical community going to understand> that we're sick, not crazy???> > i thought i read that you took 7.5 mg, 3x a day. did i misread that? that

> would be 22.5 mg. 7.5 per dose. Yes--22.5 total. > > the fact that it stopped being effective tells you that the tolerance w/d> has begun.

> We are starting our third year of homeschooling. I don't remember exactly when it was that my dose was increased to the 7.5 mg per dose, but I know it was before that. I've been on the same amount ever since.

> like you, i have a *very strong faith* that has sustained me since i was 6> but it did not stop me from trying to harm myself a few days after the

> acute w/d that ended in the e.r. when this drug w/d kicks in,* it is in> control of you*.* try as you may, it will control you*.> > about 2 days after the e.r. trip, while i was trying to get stabilized, my

> husband left me for only a couple hours. i sat in the living room and> decided to throw things around (one of the acute side effects). made a> pretty good mess. then i went upstairs to take a bath. just wanted the

> mental pain to stop (another acute side effect). didn't like the book i> tried to read. got out of the tub, took a couple 'pills' of something> (another acute side effect), then sat in the closet and tore the book up

> (and another acute side effect). i passed out from the pills.> > my husband found me like that, carried me to the bed, where i went into> seizures again (another acute side effect). probably from the pills i had

> taken in combinations with the instability of the klonipin. this all was> very much out of character for me. and i was never left a lone for many,> many months after that. even today my husband will call out to me when he

> doesn't see me, just to make sure i'm ok. these drugs are not only not> fair to us, but to those who love us also.> I know how hard the last prescription-induced psychiatric nightmare was on both me and my family. I will admit to being afraid of going through anything like that again, but I hope and pray more than anything that I will be able to keep hold of myself enough that they won't have to go through what they did last time again. Based on what I've read so far, Valium is a longer-acting benzo, which is supposed to make the w/d easier than klonipan. Again, hoping and praying that will be the case.

> most of the time, drs will increase the meds to stop the side effects of> the w/d tolerance. they just think (ignorantly?) that the original

> problems is increasing and that you need more meds. i'm not sure if they> have bought into the drug co.'s propaganda, are stupid/ignorant, don't> care-as you take your problem and go away, but will come back for repeat

> business, or all the above. not one dr in 4 warned me about any of this.> in fact, the one who helped me with a valium prescriptions, had no idea> this was a problem of the drug. a special kind of 'stupid'.

> > For what it's worth, I was researching something on here the other day and> came across some of your old posts. I'm not sure if you had started the> benzo w/d at that point or not, but you sound a lot better now than you did

> then. And I think that others were telling you that you were sounding> better to them at that time than you had earlier. So you've seemingly made> a lot of progress. Again, I say congrats, and you give those of us starting

> the journey hope.> > i started the acute w/d in april of 2011, however, i started having days of> feeling like i was in a stoupper and *very *negative thinking clear back to

> the early fall of 2010. i started 'losing' who i was within just 6 months> of being on the drug. within days of taking the drug i had a.m. pain in my> legs, waking up with feelings of 'terror' *every morning *until just a few

> months ago.> > what is troublesome, is that because we are so sick we don't notice that it> is the drug's side effects and not the lyme. we think our lyme is getting> so much worse, *but * in fact, it is the drug. i thought i was getting so

> much worse with the lyme. i now know, it is not the lyme that was getting> worse, but the drug. now, i can see that.> One of the major downturns in this battle with Lyme happened during that year I mentioned, and I have never been as well as I was at the beginning of that nightmare. I was on antibiotics just before it started, which may have contributed to that. But I also have been on the Valium since then. It would be wonderful if I kiss some of my symptoms away along with these pills.

> lorrie, please take a look at the ashton manual and read the w/d symptoms.> see where you are in this drug w/d. she will also talk about the toxicity

> of these drugs, part of the problem. please take care of yourself, for> you, as well as your family. they need you.> You mention toxicity (I know it has different meanings in medical world)--I had to stop this first round of Essiac early because it was causing terrible migraines (the worst I've had--and that's saying something). Based on my research and my craving levels, I'm almost positive it is killing off yeast. And it is most likely that my overall toxin load just got too high. I took a larger dose of binder, drank more water, and have given it a couple of days. It is letting up. The really bad migraines happened right after drinking the tea the last couple of times. The rest have been much milder, more like a herx for me. Is it possible that the Essiac would detox out something that I would need to be careful about in relation to the Valium? Or does toxicity here refer to the damage done to the brain? I didn't notice an increase in any psychiatric symptoms or shaking, and I need to stay on the tea as much as possible to help finally be rid of this yeast that has been plaguing me for a very long time.

Thanks for everything. Hope you're doing well and getting better with each day free of the benzos.

Hope all are seeing better days. Lorrie

August 21, 2012

hi lorrie,sounds like you are processing everything very well.i think we don't see the side effects because we are so sick to begin with. we think that it is just the lyme getting worse. i think that is what my dr thought. and then as things go along, the drugs create a 'non awareness' of what is really going on. it's a very deceiving experience indeed.

you may not have the stoupers with taking the drug 3x a day and the valium is a longer acting one so who knows. i remember that i couldn't wake up until about 11 a.m. then i was so exhausted i could hard get up. very weak. then i was just a vegetable the rest of the day. then the next day i was fine. as i look back over the last 2 yrs, must of it is a blur.

one thing that i realized was the drug is the extreme weakness. it is different than the fatigue. there was one time i collapsed and we thought it was the herx. i couldn't get up. my husband put me on the bed where i stayed all day. i had been on 1 mg. for a month and then he reduced it to half a mg. i think too fast. it was early on in the treatment which could have meant that the weakness was actually the drug w/d (too fast) and not the herx. there have been times i have experience that same weakness, especially the day of the acute w/d. i tried to get up and again, collapsed. weakness in the limbs is a side effect also, so i guess it all fits.

good choice on doing the oxy first. if not mistaken i think they mention that somewhere in the manual. before you do that, do some research to find out what to expect, and also in combo with the valium as the 2 drugs set up a different environment to withdrawal. and yours will probably be an easier w/d. my age might have had something to do with it also. is there a dr who you feel knows enough about this to help you and advise of side effects?

there is a support group that works with this w/d. http://www.benzobuddies.org/ many are on several drugs also, with a history similar to yours. i found them very helpful and supportive as i did my w/d. they knew more than the drs. i did it myself as there was no dr to help. he only knew to prescribe the valium. he told me i taught him a lot.

i used to have a lot of pain but pain is very low on my list right now. in the early 1980s when dx with fibro, the dr told me to go swimming 2-3x a wk. he said the pain will almost disappear. i lived in spokane, wa and the ywca had an olympic indoor pool that they heated up to about 90+ degrees twice a week for the handicapped. we would go the day after, while it had cooled down some but still very warm--and cheaper on that day. they have monthly/annual memberships and family memberships.

i was home schooling as as you are so i took my 3 kids and we had p.e. class. and the dr was right about the pain. it was almost all gone. then in the early 2000s after getting lyme (although the fibro was probably lyme, so we believe i was reinfected) the pain returned. i was referred to a dr that specialized in pain, mainly fibro.

his program consisted of trigger pt injections, chiro adjustments, phys. thereapy, massage therapy and supps (mag being one). i went 2-3 x a wk for several wks then started tapering off until at 12 wks he reevaluated. after that it was on an as needed basis. this really worked for the pain.

once in a while i will have a stiff joint, aching or a painful area, but do pretty good. you might want to check to see if there is anyone in your area who does trigger pt injects. i didn't think the p.therapy was that great, but the massage and chiro worked miracles. i still do chiro and massage about 1x a month and the t.pt. inj. 1-2x a yrs only. make sure they do 'deep' massage. no fluffy stuff. when she works on me it is painful but keeps me moving without much pain later.

take care,barbara

Hi Barbara,

I didn't feel like you were saying I was in denial. I was just afraid that by giving other reasons for the symptoms that you might think I was trying to talk myself out of the importance of the situation, and by saying that I'm not in denial, I was just trying to say that wasn't the case. Poor choice of words on my part it seems. It certainly wouldn't be the first time someone tried to convince themselves that they didn't have a problem, and you would certainly have had reason to be concerned if that's what I was doing.

The morning stooper thing is definitely related to how tired I am. It's not nearly as likely to happen if I've had a decent night's sleep. But it's when I've had several nights in a row of being up quite late that I have the problem waking up. (I have an extra-hard time going to bed when my husband's away--it messes with my routine.) And then it's seemingly more normal things that happen, like not remembering an alarm going off (I set several), or falling back to sleep and dreaming that I had gotten up. Once I get up, I'm awake, certainly not full of energy, but alert--not walking around dazed. Maybe I didn't understand your question the first time.

It sounds as if you had problems from the time you went on the drugs. I was like that with the Cymbalta, and that was the first of many drugs in that nightmare year. I still don't know why the dr didn't catch what was happening. He saw me one month after putting me on it and could see the anxiety that I didn't even realize I had, which was when he added the second drug instead of taking me off of the first. Both of our doctors should have taken us off of any med that caused such negative effects. In my opinion, it's malpractice that they didn't, though I'm not the type to sue. I have also questioned why I didn't catch it, but I guess it was just messing with my head too bad for me to put it together. I normally am careful to watch for any side effects, especially bad ones, and demand to have changes made.

I am considering coming off of the Oxy first before starting to come off of the Valium. I need to research this idea first, but the Oxy isn't helping much, if any, anyway, and it seems to make sense that the fewer drugs I'm putting in my body, the better it would be when it comes time to taper off the Valium. Plus, I'm just generally annoyed with my pain clinic and ready to leave. I love my nurse practitioner, but I am in at least as much pain, if not more, as when I first started going there. And when I last asked about changes, they said the next step would be a drug used for pain in the US, but is used as an anti-depressant in Europe. I said no way. Plus, their billing department is proving yet again that they can't count. I don't have the time or energy to deal with this on a regular basis. And, like I said, I have a lot of research to do, but I don't think it would take nearly as long to come off of the Oxy, and it certainly doesn't sound like I should do both at the same time.

Anyway, I should be doing school stuff. (Grading is not my strong suit, and I'm putting it off at the moment. ;o) ) Thanks again.

Hope all are seeing better days.

Lorrie

> > >

> > > hi lorrie,

> > >

> > > i've been rereading your last post to me. i'll comment after each

> > > paragraph.

> > >

> > > >>>>One of the things I mentioned earlier was shaking. There are a few

> > > different triggers that I have identified as causes for that, but

> > > occasionally I have wondered if some of the shaking is related to w/d,

> > > since it sometimes hits when it's been an unusually long time since my

> > last

> > > dose. I am also on Oxycodone, but I think it's the Valium that's causing

> > > it, if it is actually w/d. Weather systems and hormones are two other

> > > triggers, and sometimes there seems to be something in my sleep patterns

> > > that sets it off. I have actually woken up because I was shaking so hard

> > I

> > > could feel my body hitting against the mattress (but not bouncing, just

> > > pressing down harder--hard to explain). It's not a seizure. Every now and

> > > then I wake up and am shaking even harder, especially when it's an alarm

> > > that wakes me as opposed to waking up by myself, but I can usually fall

> > > right back to sleep for 5-10 minutes, and when I wake up again, it's gone

> > > or much better.>>>>>

> > >

> > > i am VERY concerned about the shaking. these are probably not seizures as

> > > you say, but i believe they are convulsions, or at the very least, are on

> > > their way to convulsions. the fact that your body is hitting against the

> > > mattress is no where near normal and sounds like it is *becoming

> > > dangerous.* and that they come when you are a while from your last

> > > dose. It is not always related to the time since the last dose, but

> > sometimes I think it is--it's nothing I can prove, but just sort of a

> > feeling, like a thought tugging in the back of my mind. As I said, the

> > shaking is also worse when weather fronts move through or at certain points

> > in my hormone cycles. Also, if I'm off-schedule with my meds, it's usually

> > because I've had an unusual day, like a trip to the dr office, which is too

> > difficult for me to handle on my own at this time, especially when I'm

> > herxing. So, a difficult event for my body, even though it sounds small. do

> > you have

> > > lots of restless leg shaking? No. shaking inside? Yes. legs, arms

> > start shaking

> > > then moves in the engulf the entire body? Not really. If I shake, it's

> > usually either my arms or all over, but it doesn't seem to move from one

> > place to another. EmergenC helps stops some of the body " jerks " I get while

> > trying to sleep, so I think there may also be some electrolyte imbalances.

> >

> > >

> > > lorrie, these episodes won't become less intense or less frequent, but

> > > will become more intense and closer together if you don't increase the

> > > dosages or go through a safe w/d. i am very worried about you.

> > >

> > > your sleep pattern is probably regulated by the drug, so it is setting

> > them

> > > off, not the sleep pattern itself.

> > >

> > > do you ever have trouble waking up in the morning, as if you are in a

> > > stoupper? Yes. days when the mental fog is deeper and unable to

> > communicate? Yes-ish. I have a hard time holding onto a thought, but

> > able to talk and communicate, which pre-dates the Valium.

> > > very extreme fatigue? Extreme fatigue pre-dates the Valium, as does the

> > irritability and frustration. crying, teary eyed, weepy feeling? Some,

> > again seemingly related to hormone cycles more than anything else.

> > mornings when

> > > you wake up feeling in 'terror', not just anxiety. No. legs, arms,

> > tingling

> > > and it moves towards your body, then numb feeling? No. mental pain?

> > No.

> > > overwhelmed having to 'think' or 'do' more than just one or a few things,

> > > or figure things out? Yes. no coping ability? No. very irritable?

> > wanting to

> > > throw things from frustration? See above, though I keep the urge to

> > throw things under control--kids at home help with that, needing to be an

> > example and all, all of the time. feel like you don't know who you are

> > > anymore? No. deep, within the brain anxiety, like you are going crazy?

> > No.

> > > feeling that you won't make it, or that you may die? Not unless I'm

> > having symptoms that would warrant such thoughts--numbness on one side,

> > etc. It doesn't happen often, but occasionally. feeling hopeless,

> > > helpless overwhelmed? Overwhelmed, yes--but because I can't get my

> > body to do all of the things I need it too--each new thing to do is a

> > physical struggle that I often just can't win. obsessive thinking that

> > just keeps cycling and won't

> > > stop, especially when you go to bed and try to sleep?

> > > Not obsessive cycling, but it is hard to settle down and go to

> > bed sometimes. Usually I'm ok once I get there.

> >

> > > the oxycodone will add to the problem. you can't mix these strong drugs

> > > safely.

> >

> > All of my doctors know every medicine that I'm on, including supplements,

> > and I write down the time I take each medication so as to avoid accidental

> > overdose. I read on the drug info sheets that both types of drugs are

> > nervous-system depressants, so I understand the danger. Interestingly, no

> > dr has ever mentioned it. And the Oxy comes from a pain clinic and the

> > Valium from a psychiatrist. You would think they'd have said something.

> >

> > >

> > > They should really have to warn you when they put you on this stuff what

> > > it's like when it's time to come off. " Don't stop taking this medicine

> > > suddenly " doesn't cut it. I'm just glad that I set 7.5 as my

> > > personally-mandated limit. When it stopped being effective, I refused to

> > > ask for a higher dose. I should have done more research before starting

> > it,

> > > but I was in a really bad place. Thankfully I have strong religious

> > beliefs

> > > that stopped me from hurting myself, but I got to the place that I

> > > understand why people cut themselves or even kill themselves. Physical

> > pain

> > > would be preferable to the mental " pain " /anxiety going on inside. And it

> > > feels like it will never end. But it did. When they took me off the drugs

> > > that were causing it. When is the medical community going to understand

> > > that we're sick, not crazy???

> > >

> > > i thought i read that you took 7.5 mg, 3x a day. did i misread that? that

> > > would be 22.5 mg. 7.5 per dose. Yes--22.5 total.

> >

> > >

> > > the fact that it stopped being effective tells you that the tolerance w/d

> > > has begun.

> > >

> > We are starting our third year of homeschooling. I don't remember exactly

> > when it was that my dose was increased to the 7.5 mg per dose, but I know

> > it was before that. I've been on the same amount ever since.

> >

> > > like you, i have a *very strong faith* that has sustained me since i was

> > 6

> >

> > > but it did not stop me from trying to harm myself a few days after the

> > > acute w/d that ended in the e.r. when this drug w/d kicks in,* it is in

> > > control of you*.* try as you may, it will control you*.

> >

> > >

> > > about 2 days after the e.r. trip, while i was trying to get stabilized,

> > my

> > > husband left me for only a couple hours. i sat in the living room and

> > > decided to throw things around (one of the acute side effects). made a

> > > pretty good mess. then i went upstairs to take a bath. just wanted the

> > > mental pain to stop (another acute side effect). didn't like the book i

> > > tried to read. got out of the tub, took a couple 'pills' of something

> > > (another acute side effect), then sat in the closet and tore the book up

> > > (and another acute side effect). i passed out from the pills.

> > >

> > > my husband found me like that, carried me to the bed, where i went into

> > > seizures again (another acute side effect). probably from the pills i had

> > > taken in combinations with the instability of the klonipin. this all was

> > > very much out of character for me. and i was never left a lone for many,

> > > many months after that. even today my husband will call out to me when he

> > > doesn't see me, just to make sure i'm ok. these drugs are not only not

> > > fair to us, but to those who love us also.

> > >

> > I know how hard the last prescription-induced psychiatric nightmare was

> > on both me and my family. I will admit to being afraid of going through

> > anything like that again, but I hope and pray more than anything that I

> > will be able to keep hold of myself enough that they won't have to go

> > through what they did last time again. Based on what I've read so far,

> > Valium is a longer-acting benzo, which is supposed to make the w/d easier

> > than klonipan. Again, hoping and praying that will be the case.

> >

> > > most of the time, drs will increase the meds to stop the side effects of

> > > the w/d tolerance. they just think (ignorantly?) that the original

> > > problems is increasing and that you need more meds. i'm not sure if they

> > > have bought into the drug co.'s propaganda, are stupid/ignorant, don't

> > > care-as you take your problem and go away, but will come back for repeat

> > > business, or all the above. not one dr in 4 warned me about any of this.

> > > in fact, the one who helped me with a valium prescriptions, had no idea

> > > this was a problem of the drug. a special kind of 'stupid'.

> > >

> > > For what it's worth, I was researching something on here the other day

> > and

> > > came across some of your old posts. I'm not sure if you had started the

> > > benzo w/d at that point or not, but you sound a lot better now than you

> > did

> > > then. And I think that others were telling you that you were sounding

> > > better to them at that time than you had earlier. So you've seemingly

> > made

> > > a lot of progress. Again, I say congrats, and you give those of us

> > starting

> > > the journey hope.

> > >

> > > i started the acute w/d in april of 2011, however, i started having days

> > of

> > > feeling like i was in a stoupper and *very *negative thinking clear back

> > to

> >

> > > the early fall of 2010. i started 'losing' who i was within just 6 months

> > > of being on the drug. within days of taking the drug i had a.m. pain in

> > my

> > > legs, waking up with feelings of 'terror' *every morning *until just a

> > few

> >

> > > months ago.

> > >

> > > what is troublesome, is that because we are so sick we don't notice that

> > it

> > > is the drug's side effects and not the lyme. we think our lyme is getting

> > > so much worse, *but * in fact, it is the drug. i thought i was getting so

> >

> > > much worse with the lyme. i now know, it is not the lyme that was getting

> > > worse, but the drug. now, i can see that.

> > >

> > One of the major downturns in this battle with Lyme happened during that

> > year I mentioned, and I have never been as well as I was at the beginning

> > of that nightmare. I was on antibiotics just before it started, which may

> > have contributed to that. But I also have been on the Valium since then. It

> > would be wonderful if I kiss some of my symptoms away along with these

> > pills.

> >

> > > lorrie, please take a look at the ashton manual and read the w/d

> > symptoms.

> > > see where you are in this drug w/d. she will also talk about the toxicity

> > > of these drugs, part of the problem. please take care of yourself, for

> > > you, as well as your family. they need you.

> > >

> > You mention toxicity (I know it has different meanings in medical

> > world)--I had to stop this first round of Essiac early because it was

> > causing terrible migraines (the worst I've had--and that's saying

> > something). Based on my research and my craving levels, I'm almost positive

> > it is killing off yeast. And it is most likely that my overall toxin load

> > just got too high. I took a larger dose of binder, drank more water, and

> > have given it a couple of days. It is letting up. The really bad migraines

> > happened right after drinking the tea the last couple of times. The rest

> > have been much milder, more like a herx for me. Is it possible that the

> > Essiac would detox out something that I would need to be careful about in

> > relation to the Valium? Or does toxicity here refer to the damage done to

> > the brain? I didn't notice an increase in any psychiatric symptoms or

> > shaking, and I need to stay on the tea as much as possible to help finally

> > be rid of this yeast that has been plaguing me for a very long time.

> >

> > Thanks for everything. Hope you're doing well and getting better with each

> > day free of the benzos.

> >

> > Hope all are seeing better days.

> >

> > Lorrie

> >

>

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RE: Re: Valium (was: A question or 2)

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