val- switching to armour

[Guest guest]

hey val..... i'm curious about your switch to armour. perhaps you

have posted in the group and i missed it. sorry if i did. just

wondering what is different this time over the last time you made the

switch from t3 to armour? last time it didn't work, but this time it

is. did your new doc give you some info that was pivotal in this?

what do we need to know to make the trade without building up rt3?

thnks, ag

[Guest guest]

Well this one is on me, as I made the switch I tapered off HC. STILL

waiting for the results of my 24 hour urine to see how that is going now

that I have been off it for a month or so and I went VERY slowly, much

slower than the first time, not dropping any T3 till I had raised pulse

from the Armoru raise thne dropping a nbit an dwaiting a week, sometimes

two and raising Amroru again/ The wait fo rthe hyoper pulse thne

dropping T3 etc. I just yesteray lowered the Armour more! Now at 3

grains I will hold and see where my labs are unless I get hypo symp0toms

return.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

[Guest guest]

Almost finished with Safe Uses of Cortisol. On p. 162, He talks about

cortisol's " association with decr in circulating T3 by RIA when

initial levels are high normal or elevated, suggesting that these

physiologic dosages improve peripheral utilization of thyroid hormone.

In patients whose initial levels of T3 by RIA were low normal or low,

treatment with these dosages was associated with an increase in T3

while patients reported improvement in energy, suggesting that they

increased conversion of T4 to T3, another mechanism by which they

might improve peripheral utilization of thyroid hormone. "

So it sounds like in cases where there is a tendency to adrenal

insufficiency and also formation of RT3 it might be a good idea to not

eliminate all cortisone supplementation too fast or at all.

Mostly looking forward to my own eventual transition from T3 to

Armour. Still trusting that it will happen eventually.

Dorothy

[Guest guest]

Yes this si a tricky del though! High cortiosl blocks conversion of T4

to T3 and favors conversion to RT3, so if you are ready to come off HC

and donot you cna undo all the work of ridding yourself of RT3 Ihtink

6that was what I did wrong the first time I tried to switch back to

Armour. Cortiso is a very fussy hormone causeing bad things too low or

too high and nbneeds to be JUST right.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

[Guest guest]

why would you want to go back to armour? If the t3 is working? my doc said that her patient has just stayed on t3

Subject: Re: val- switching to armourTo: RT3_T3 Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 4:31 PMAlmost finished with Safe Uses of Cortisol. On p. 162, He talks about

cortisol's "association with decr in circulating T3 by RIA when

initial levels are high normal or elevated, suggesting that these

physiologic dosages improve peripheral utilization of thyroid hormone.

In patients whose initial levels of T3 by RIA were low normal or low,

treatment with these dosages was associated with an increase in T3

while patients reported improvement in energy, suggesting that they

increased conversion of T4 to T3, another mechanism by which they

might improve peripheral utilization of thyroid hormone."

So it sounds like in cases where there is a tendency to adrenal

insufficiency and also formation of RT3 it might be a good idea to not

eliminate all cortisone supplementation too fast or at all.

Mostly looking forward to my own eventual transition from T3 to

Armour. Still trusting that it will happen eventually.

Dorothy

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Because T3 only is not normal. I am having a hard time maintaining a

steady supply, trying to cut those bity pills in half so I can dose

more often. I can see why SRT3 is good in theory at least. Normally T4

is converted as the body needs it. You don't have to worry about doing

it yourself. Also Armour has T1 and T2 and calcitonin. I doubt T3 is

doing much to protect my bones. Don't know what T1 and T2 do but I am

sure they serve some useful purpose.

Dorothy

> why would you want to go back to armour? If the t3 is working? my

doc said that her patient has just stayed on t3

[Guest guest]

Several reasons I want to go back to Armour. COST being number one. Also

I am a Diabetic and something is raising my insukin resistance VERY

badly and I suspect it is the T3. I also worry about not getting

Calcitonin.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

[Guest guest]

I'm with you Dorothy. It's been a tough road trying to get this t3 right. Either I can't sleep, get too hyper, or hypo, my estrogen gets metabolized through my liver too fast or some other crisis. I'm not loving it one bit. I feel armour was better for me. Recently I switched from 105 T3/30 srt3 to 125 T3. In some ways my issues are worse now. Lately I've been thinking of going back to partial SRT3 and working with it. Much easier on the body. Or maybe even trading back to armour if I feel really brave!Dr. Lowe, in my recent phone consult, questioned my 3 times a day T3 dosing. 45, 45, 30. He said that research fully backs that cytomel is effectively time release in the way it works in the cells. This is unmeasurable. Shame on doctors for not knowing this he says, as it's already been shown in research. You can go 48 hours between doses as there is still active T3 in the cells, after 72 hours it's gone. The description he gave me on how T3 has it's own SR factor went right over my head. It's in his book or on his website. He takes 150 mcg. first thing every morning. One dose. If you split your dose you have to work into this trading over from the last dose putting it into the first. I'm considering this OR going back to some SRT3. AGBecause T3 only is not normal. I am having a hard time maintaining asteady supply, trying to cut those bity pills in half so I can dose more often. I can see why SRT3 is good in theory at least. Normally T4is converted as the body needs it. You don't have to worry about doingit yourself. Also Armour has T1 and T2 and calcitonin. I doubt T3 isdoing much to protect my bones. Don't know what T1 and T2 do but I amsure they serve some useful purpose.Dorothy

[Guest guest]

Thats interesting...Ive always found I feel worse when splitting my armour dose..yet everyone insists thats the way to do it.

Subject: Re: val- switching to armourTo: RT3_T3 Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 8:07 AM

I'm with you Dorothy. It's been a tough road trying to get this t3 right. Either I can't sleep, get too hyper, or hypo, my estrogen gets metabolized through my liver too fast or some other crisis. I'm not loving it one bit. I feel armour was better for me. Recently I switched from 105 T3/30 srt3 to 125 T3. In some ways my issues are worse now. Lately I've been thinking of going back to partial SRT3 and working with it. Much easier on the body. Or maybe even trading back to armour if I feel really brave!

Dr. Lowe, in my recent phone consult, questioned my 3 times a day T3 dosing. 45, 45, 30. He said that research fully backs that cytomel is effectively time release in the way it works in the cells. This is unmeasurable. Shame on doctors for not knowing this he says, as it's already been shown in research. You can go 48 hours between doses as there is still active T3 in the cells, after 72 hours it's gone. The description he gave me on how T3 has it's own SR factor went right over my head. It's in his book or on his website. He takes 150 mcg. first thing every morning. One dose. If you split your dose you have to work into this trading over from the last dose putting it into the first. I'm considering this OR going back to some SRT3.

AG

Because T3 only is not normal. I am having a hard time maintaining asteady supply, trying to cut those bity pills in half so I can dose more often. I can see why SRT3 is good in theory at least. Normally T4is converted as the body needs it. You don't have to worry about doingit yourself. Also Armour has T1 and T2 and calcitonin. I doubt T3 isdoing much to protect my bones. Don't know what T1 and T2 do but I amsure they serve some useful purpose.Dorothy

[Guest guest]

That is onw thing with Lowe's protocol I have never agreed with. I tried

it. The one time daily dosing. OUCh is all I cna say. Shook and trembled

ahlf the day and then crashed and could not stay awake. It is VREY

possible each of us metabolises it differntly at differnt rates too. For

me even three times daiy dosing I had ups and downs. And how

UNbiological is it to have all tht T3 in the blood at once instead of a

steady trickle through the day as our own thyroid would produce it?

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

[Guest guest]

Thank you Val! Wishing you the utmost success with this. I might be right behind you in the next few months. I miss armour! It was much kinder to work with. I will say that T3 got my adrenals back and for this I am thankful. But a lifetime of being on all T3 exhausts me to think about. Just went through a HORRID hyper episode from increasing T3. Who do you think is a good candidate for a switch over? So you added armour first, developed a higher heart rate, then dropped some T3. What amount of T3 were you on when you started the switch? How much armour did you start with? And how much T3 would you drop out at a time?This is pretty impressive. You're a real trouper Val. Wow!AGWell this one is on me, as I made the switch I tapered off HC. STILL waiting for the results of my 24 hour urine to see how that is going now that I have been off it for a month or so and I went VERY slowly, much slower than the first time, not dropping any T3 till I had raised pulse from the Armoru raise thne dropping a nbit an dwaiting a week, sometimes two and raising Amroru again/ The wait fo rthe hyoper pulse thne dropping T3 etc. I just yesteray lowered the Armour more! Now at 3 grains I will hold and see where my labs are unless I get hypo symp0toms return.

[Guest guest]

Oh I definitely thuink it takes time for the receptors to open and

acceopt T3 again. Especially when you have bene T3 deprivved for YEARS

as I was. I took Syncrap for about 25 years and I think that CAUSED my

very high resistance issues. Now if I could PROVE that i woudl have a

very nice lawsuit to deliver.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

[Guest guest]

I believe you Val! Totally. Not sure I want to try it. Was tempted but now I think I don't want to experiment and cause another roller coaster. I'm sick of ride for the moment.Try ti and let us know. I tried both ways several differnt ways. I have played with T3 for 15 years and never could take it in less than 4 doses and feel right.

[Guest guest]

I'm on armour, and have to do twice a day dosing. Twice I've tried to

take it all in the morning, and always get sleepy and miserable around

5 pm. But, my doctor says I'm the only patient he has that takes

armour twice a day, the rest of his patients take it once a day.

-

>

> Try ti and let us know. I tried both ways several differnt ways. I have

> played with T3 for 15 years and never could take it in less than 4

doses

> and feel right.

[Guest guest]

What's your dose and how do you divide it.

AG

> >

> > Try ti and let us know. I tried both ways several differnt ways. I have

> > played with T3 for 15 years and never could take it in less than 4

> doses

> > and feel right.

>

[Guest guest]

Atlanta Girl wrote:

> But a lifetime of being on all T3 exhausts me to think about. Just

> went through a HORRID hyper episode from increasing T3.

>

> Who do you think is a good candidate for a switch over?

>

I also would like to go back to dessicated thyroid, but I've tried and

failed to even maintain a partial dose of dessicated along with my T3.

What I like about T3 is you can adjust dosages quickly. What I HATE

about dessicated thyroid is how long every dose change takes before you

know if it is going to work or not. I feel like I will die of old age

before I could ever get it right.

sol

[Guest guest]

I agree Sol. I love the way you can adjust the T3 from one day to the next. I was thinking about this very thing the other day. If you're on Armour and you go hyper, how long do you have to stay hyper before things settle down. That would be horrid.

Atlanta Girl wrote:

> But a lifetime of being on all T3 exhausts me to think about. Just

> went through a HORRID hyper episode from increasing T3.

>

> Who do you think is a good candidate for a switch over?

>

I also would like to go back to dessicated thyroid, but I've tried and

failed to even maintain a partial dose of dessicated along with my T3.

What I like about T3 is you can adjust dosages quickly. What I HATE

about dessicated thyroid is how long every dose change takes before you

know if it is going to work or not. I feel like I will die of old age

before I could ever get it right.

sol

[Guest guest]

Sol- How much T3 are you on Sol? How much armour did you add? Did you feel

the RT3

right away?

I think I would like all T3 and have in the past, when I am able to stabilize.

That means

everything! For awhile now I think I have been hyper. Because I walk 5 miles a

day I have

a naturally low HR. On t3 I have looked at a resting HR of 72-76 as being

normal. But for

me this is hyper I think. And my sleep has been awful on and off since being on

T3. I am

one who can't take it late in the day. 2 p.m. is my cut off with a dose of 35

mcg. And this

still doesn't work for me. When I get right I am sure I will be happy with T3.

Doesn't help

that I went wicked hyper from an increase this weekend, have returned back to my

original

dose and am still hyper after the 2nd day back. What's up with this???

AG

> > But a lifetime of being on all T3 exhausts me to think about. Just

> > went through a HORRID hyper episode from increasing T3.

> >

> > Who do you think is a good candidate for a switch over?

> >

> I also would like to go back to dessicated thyroid, but I've tried and

> failed to even maintain a partial dose of dessicated along with my T3.

> What I like about T3 is you can adjust dosages quickly. What I HATE

> about dessicated thyroid is how long every dose change takes before you

> know if it is going to work or not. I feel like I will die of old age

> before I could ever get it right.

> sol

>

[Guest guest]

Val:

I'm with you. I read Dr. Lowe's explanation of how Cytomel acts like

SR T3, and I strongly question the validity of this. T3 will reach a

steady-state blood level in the body following several days of use,

and maybe this is what he's thinking of. So it may work in theory,

and it may work for some people (those with VERY STRONG ADRENALS!),

but all I can say is taking the entire daily dose in one shot (I take

it 2x a day) will bring on exactly the symptoms you describe. Your

point about it metabolizing differently from person to person is well

taken. Maybe someone needs to point this out to Dr. Lowe!

MJ

>

> That is onw thing with Lowe's protocol I have never agreed with. I

tried

> it. The one time daily dosing. OUCh is all I cna say. Shook and

trembled

> ahlf the day and then crashed and could not stay awake. It is VREY

> possible each of us metabolises it differntly at differnt rates

too. For

> me even three times daiy dosing I had ups and downs. And how

> UNbiological is it to have all tht T3 in the blood at once instead

of a

> steady trickle through the day as our own thyroid would produce it?

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

>

[Guest guest]

am still hyper after the 2nd day back

Aftre 2 dasy I owuld suspect NOT true hyper but adrenals. My T3 I can adjust it

daily to bring it up or down and the temps follow the next day the dosing

change.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

[Guest guest]

I wish they could make it time release <G>

Janis Whitcomb, Auburn, WA

janisw2@...

http://trotting-horse.com/

http://www.cafepress.com/trotting_horse

Re: Re: val- switching to armour

> That is onw thing with Lowe's protocol I have never agreed with. I tried

> it. The one time daily dosing. OUCh is all I cna say. Shook and trembled

> ahlf the day and then crashed and could not stay awake. It is VREY

> possible each of us metabolises it differntly at differnt rates too. For

> me even three times daiy dosing I had ups and downs. And how

> UNbiological is it to have all tht T3 in the blood at once instead of a

> steady trickle through the day as our own thyroid would produce it?

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

>

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I take 2/3 of my dose at 6-9am, then 1/3 of my dose at 4-5 pm. I take

3 1/4 gr. armour a day (2 1/4 in am, 1 in pm). I can't take it at

night like others on this forum, it keeps me from sleeping, or

sleeping well.

-

> > >

> > > Try ti and let us know. I tried both ways several differnt ways.

I have

> > > played with T3 for 15 years and never could take it in less than 4

> > doses

> > > and feel right.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Atlanta Girl wrote:

> I believe you Val! Totally. Not sure I want to try it. Was tempted

> but now I think I don't want to experiment and cause another roller

> coaster. I'm sick of ride for the moment.

>

I'm in the same place, weird things going on, everything feels in flux,

and neither raising nor lowering really feels right. (I refer to both my

HC and T3). I'm playing with them both within a very narrow range, but

can't seem to get back to feeling as stable as I once did. Experimenting

with sex hormones may be what is destabilizing me so much, but I got to

a place where I really felt like I needed to give them a very good trial.

And I also am lowering my ferritin at the same time. Lot of stuff going

on, maybe too many things, but it all needed to be addressed. I guess I

really hoped that once as optimal as I was ever going to get on HC and

T3, I could fix other things without messing up those two, but it

doesn't seem to work that way.

And sometimes dosing needs just seem to change for no reason, too. " just

because " . Maybe as healing takes place?

sol

[Guest guest]

I honestly dount hyper would last that long on Armoru. Unfortunately,

the excess T4 woul d be converted to RT3 an here we would be again. If

you lowered the Amrrou quickly discovering hyper, the t3 would be

lowered which woul djust leave an excess of T4..

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

[Guest guest]

And the same thing if you added some armour or T4, went hyper, and

dropped some cytomel?

Still would leave an excess of T4?

Val, you said you felt hyper on 4 grains, and dropped to 3 grains

armour. How long did it take until you stopped the hyper symptoms after

the drop? I know neither birrdyy or I are you, and can't expect the same

reaction but it might give us a ballpark guide.

thanks,

sol

wrote:

> I honestly dount hyper would last that long on Armoru. Unfortunately,

> the excess T4 woul d be converted to RT3 an here we would be again. If

> you lowered the Amrrou quickly discovering hyper, the t3 would be

> lowered which woul djust leave an excess of T4..

>

>