Re: Growing more sensitive to T3

[Guest guest]

Mot sure abotu T3 but my ARmour DOSE IS THE LEAST i HAVE NEEDED SIONCE i

WAS 21 YEARS OLD. I can only assume that from the first with Syncrap I

developed RT3 issues and clearing them has ben the best thing I ever did

for myself. So far my temps are holding good on 3 grains.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

[Guest guest]

>

> Is anyone else finding that the longer they are on T3 the less they

> need? Assuming you have already cleared RT3 and are coasting along

on

> all T3, have you found you need to lower? After 8 months on T3,

> having cleared all RT3 6 months ago, I now find that my baseline T3

> dose is lowering. Anyone else notice this?

>

> AG

------------------

I can't answer your question because I'm not on T3 yet, but I was

wondering what kind of improvements you've noticed since you've been

taking T3?

[Guest guest]

hi ag

what type of improvements did you notice after clearing your t3?

bw

nil

Growing more sensitive to T3

Is anyone else finding that the longer they are on T3 the less they need? Assuming you have already cleared RT3 and are coasting along on all T3, have you found you need to lower? After 8 months on T3, having

[Guest guest]

> Mot sure abotu T3 but my ARmour DOSE IS THE LEAST i HAVE NEEDED

SIONCE i

> WAS 21 YEARS OLD. I can only assume that from the first with Syncrap I

> developed RT3 issues and clearing them has ben the best thing I ever

did

> for myself.

Val, This is good to hear. I am thinking I must have had RT3 from

syncrap. I hope this means I will get better results from Armour once

the RT3 is clear..... if ever. 6 wks on T3 so far. I just raised to

120 and my temp went back up to 97.8 this morning after being down 0.3

for the last 3 days. I was also getting more constipated so I wonder

if the temp drop was low T3. I am doing 12.5 every 2 hrs. It doesn't

seem to matter how much I take, I still feed O2 deficiency in 2 hrs.

As long as I keep increasing T3 I am sleeping better and feeling

stronger. Seems like I just need to keep increasing as needed. Is that

right? Just wonder how far, how long.... I know, you can't tell.

Dorothy

[Guest guest]

That's actually a logical thing to have happen...

Free T3 tests the amount of T3 hormone that is free, unbound and

available to be attached to receptors. As more receptors are cleared of

RT3 and T3 receptors in general are 'turned on' and back 'on duty' the

saturation level of Free T3 required in the blood to allow adequate

loading of T3 receptors should decrease...

When T3 receptors are blocked (filled by RT3) and others are simply 'not

turned on' by the body due to the hyPO level being severe enough for the

body to determine to keep only necessary functions operating saturation

would have to be greater to increase the opportunity for those few

available, and mandatory for survival, receptors to be successful in

having a T3 molecule attach.

Topper ()

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:46:29 -0500 Atlanta Girl

writes:

> Is anyone else finding that the longer they are on T3 the less they

> need? Assuming you have already cleared RT3 and are coasting along

> on all T3, have you found you need to lower? After 8 months on T3,

> having cleared all RT3 6 months ago, I now find that my baseline T3

> dose is lowering. Anyone else notice this?

>

> AG

____________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

> To get the initial breakthrough I went all the wayto 250mcg!

I was hoping I could get there with my 100 100mcg tabs. Maybe not.

Dorothy

[Guest guest]

Maybe 125 will be enough. I forgot my before dinner dose because I

wasn't feeling the need of it.

Dorothy

> Wel I thnk I was one of the really resistant cases as I ahev not seen

> many folks ned that much T3 to see good results.

[Guest guest]

Wonder Val. If 3 grains is roughly 75 mcg T3, then you were on more T3 before trading to armour, yes?AGPosted by: " " artisticgroomer@... valharlyWed Dec 17, 2008 9:10 am (PST)Mot sure abotu T3 but my ARmour DOSE IS THE LEAST i HAVE NEEDED SIONCE i WAS 21 YEARS OLD. I can only assume that from the first with Syncrap I developed RT3 issues and clearing them has ben the best thing I ever did for myself. So far my temps are holding good on 3 grains.

[Guest guest]

A number of things for sure. Warmed me up, makes my hair and nails grow fast and strong, better digestion and my brain is loving the positive impact on it. The down side that I am still working with here is my sleep. I don't sleep as well, BUT I have made a lot of hormone changes and I think once I am steady this will settle down too.AGI can't answer your question because I'm not on T3 yet, but I was wondering what kind of improvements you've noticed since you've been taking T3?

[Guest guest]

rt3 caused lower back pain, listlessness, dead all over, tired, depressed..... all of this cleared away. aghi agwhat type of improvements did you notice after clearing your t3?bwnil

[Guest guest]

Highest I brought mine was 165, but this was when my T3 wasn't

cleared. Also crashed my adrenals last year with this high a dose and

having RT3 built up. The highest this time has been 135, which I have

now settled to 107.5-110 with.

It turns out my TRT3 dose of 30 mcg when traded out was only worth 2.5

mcg!!!!

ag

[Guest guest]

>

> rt3 caused lower back pain, listlessness, dead all over, tired,

> depressed..... all of this cleared away.

>

> ag

>

=======

Wow, that's huge! And also fits alot of my symptoms - especially

the lower back pain which at times has been near unbearable.

[Guest guest]

Whoa!! Take it you didn't expect this?! Great news. Your adrenals are holding their own and healed. Fantastic. Go celebrate.xoagYes and I suspect I will need moe Armour or a tad T3 wiht it as I was a little depressed feeling this AM and that is almost always Low T3 for me. Then I got great news form my doctor.. My coritls HEL is officially DONE. I have GREAT levels of coritls and it is being metabilised normally while OFF HC! WOW Iam veyr happy about this news. Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

[Guest guest]

I have read, and believe this to be true, that those with thyroid hormone resistance are better off with straight cytomel. They seem to need it to flood their receptors to clear the RT3 and/or tissue resistance for other reasons. You can tell which one you are by taking the SRT3 and seeing how you do. I never really new how much I felt from it as I always combined it with T3. At the time of using the SRT3, which was for a year, I had been gung-ho about it's smooth, even delivery. On the other hand I also had a rapid digestive transit issue from time to time that could easily have removed a good deal of the SR potency. This wasn't every day though. Recently upon trading out the 30 mcg for cytomel I realized the qualities I attributed to it were perhaps really nothing more than my whole protocol working smoothly. Right dose of T3 and HC will make you very level and functional. I am, or was, thyroid hormone resistant. The miniscule amount of T3 I was getting from the SR couldn't possible amount to any great health/dosing benefit overall. It has taken a good bit of time here, over a month, to refashion and adapt to the new dosing of T3 without the SR part. As I mentioned earlier, after a wild hyper ride I am right back where I started with Cytomel sans the SR part! One more reduction of 2.5 mcg T3, which I think I will end up making, and I'm there. Either I have become more T3 sensitive and/or the SR was weak. But in a months time?!SR might well be the best possible choice for the new T3 person who wants to step in with caution. You will know soon enough if you are getting anything from it. Not sure you will adequately clear Rt3 using it. You might want to read drlowe.com on this. He discusses the use of T3 vs SR for patients with issues like many of us have.If I had it to do over I would have gone with the cytomel and increased slowly. I hate hormone upset. Have had a sickening dose of it as many of us have over the last couple of years. If any of this can be avoided it might certainly be through making as fewer hormone changes as possible.Hope this helps you,AGAG-am reading your post as I prepare to go to my doc who proposes I take SRT3 rather than Cytomel.? I can only take very low dose per Val because Ferritin/Cortils are still low.? Now I'm SO CONFUSED!? I've heard about SRT3 being "easier" but seems like if I need to switch, it will be difficult and not pleasant? : (? Based on your experience, would you choose one or the other to start T3 therapy?? Any thoughts/ideas would be so appreciated.? Thanks, much.Sharon

[Guest guest]

First, re allergy to cytomel. Before you decide this give it a go with some HC. You have low cortisol and are not treating fully, yes? Or am I off with this? Sorry if I am. I think Val is right about the IBS type symptoms that cytomel can cause. When I looked back at my patten with this I saw that HC does play in. Seems when I make thyroid changes my adrenals can react as with any stress which uses up more cortisol. With time it straightens out as my adrenals level back out. After my last bout of adrenal havoc with going off SRT3 and becoming hyper, my adrenals tired and stopped making at much cortisol. On came the IBS type symptoms. Today I upped my HC and they totally disappeared. Wanted to share this because it does feel so much like cytomel causes a gut allergy. It might not be this at all for you. Yes, SRT3 is really better for those without RT3 issues, imho. I think you can get to where you want to go faster with Cytomel. Don't think you can easily achieve clearing RT3 with SRT3. It took me peaking my T3 to the max to make progress. AGPosted by: "Leisa Forman" leisamelanie@... leisamelanieFri Dec 19, 2008 6:57 am (PST)Ag, thanks for that info. It seems that the time releases t3 would be hard to do...ecause were supposed to start with 12.5 (or something like that) and then add 5 mcg each week...SO I dont understand how wed do that with the time released? Im asking because I might have to go that route, since Im allergic to the cytomel.

[Guest guest]

Hi Atlanta Girl,

I'd like to give the T3 (Cytomel) another try after I get the HC

back up. Right now, with the swollen ankles, I'd like to wait till

that goes away. So, I stopped the HC and the T3. It's been about

three days and they are still puffy. I thought the HC and T3 would

be cleared out of my body by now and the swelling would go down.

That way I could start the HC again and get it up to 20 mg and see

if they swell again, so I can tell if it's the HC or T3 causing the

swelling. I had a little swelling when I took 20 mg HC previously

(prior to the T3), even though I believe I was getting enough sea

salt. So, I thought if the swelling would go down then I would

start the HC again and if that didn't cause too much of a problem,

then I'd try the T3 at a really low dose, while I continue to take

iron to get my ferritin up more.

Any thoughts on what causes the swelling to stick around when you

are no longer on HC or T3 or how to get rid of it?

Thanks,

>

>

> Hi .......

>

> Wish I had started HC before thyroid. I added HC after I had been

on

> 3 grains of armour for a few months. By then it must have been

too

> late. By the time I got to 6 grains I had a major RT3 issue to

deal

> with.

>

> When I traded out armour for T3 I was on HC.

>

> You shouldn't crash any further with T3 if you bring your ferritin

up

> and take enough HC. My adrenals have gotten better without

question

> from the T3. At the start your adrenals will struggle some until

you

> get the hang. But for me, switching to T3 was the best thing I

could

> have done. It's a trick deluxe to get the T3 in right balance

with

> HC, but once up and running it's a most effective rejuvenation

protocol.

>

> When I first started treating thyroid my ferritin was 17. Had to

> build it as I went. Finally I went with script iron because it's

so

> fast. I've tried Chromagen and Repliva. Repiva is superb for

quick

> building. I went from 63 to 81 with 7 doses. You can't beat

that

> past getting a transfusion. !!

>

> AG

>

>

> Hi Atlanta Girl,

>

> Did you start HC before starting T3? I hope you don't mind telling

> again, or just lead me to a message #.

>

> I have high RT3, low ferritin, and low and high cortisol. Been

> reluctant to take the cytomel (plus its expensive). And, don't want

> to crash any further!

>

> Thanks,

>

[Guest guest]

My ankles puff up a bit when I need to incr Thyroid whether it was

Armour or, now, T3. Others get that from adrenal deficiency. You may

need more not less.

Dorothy

> I'd like to give the T3 (Cytomel) another try after I get the HC

> back up. Right now, with the swollen ankles, I'd like to wait till

> that goes away.

[Guest guest]

I'm pretty sure I am, but maybe I will try a little extra in water and

see if that helps any.

>

> Are you gettign enough sea salt? Low sodium can cause fluid

retention

> too and would be exascerbated by the cortils & T3.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sharon,

Val asked if I was taking in enough salt, so I'm going to try to up

that some and see if that helps the swelling. It sure is tricky,

isn't it!!!

>

> -thanks so much for posting.? I have been using Isocort and

not really in touch with highs or lows on it until I substitued HC

cream one day.? WHOA - major palps for about 12 hours.? I would

suspect that being on HC is really much better with the T3 than

trying to raise cortils as I've been doing.? (I'm very scared of HC

in direct dosage).? I have had an interesting experience with hand

swelling which seems to come and go -- cannot tie it to anything.? ?

Given what AG is saying, I think I'm going to reluctantly as for

Cytomel instead of SRT3-primarily because?I tend to agree that there

is more hope to clear RT3?faster/more efficiently. ?I hope my doc

knows how to dose it!? Perhaps you should bump ankle swellling ? to

Val again?? Let's stay in touch!

> Sharon

>

>

> Re: Growing more sensitive to T3

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi Sharon,

>

> I must be in a similar boat as you. I have the low ferritin (38)

and

> low cortisol and a problem with reverse T3 (or maybe I'm just

thyroid

> resistant). Anyway, I think I raised Cytomel too quickly. I did

12.5

> mg week one, 25 mg week two, and 50 mg week three, based on

doctor's

> recommendation, but she probably doesn't understand yet the

problems

> of reverse T3 and low ferritin. I also took HC at 15 to 20 mg

daily.

> The Cytomel I did in about 3 doses daily as I also did the HC.

> However, around week 3 I noticed my ankles really puffing up. In

the

> few cases in the past, when I hadn't been taking HC or thyroid

> medication, my ankles might swell slightly, but they would be back

to

> normal in the morning. Well, I finally decided to ease off the HC

&

> Cytomel slowly to get rid of the swelling. For the last couple

days,

> I haven't taken either and the swelling has barely gone down. I've

> even stopped taking iodine as I don't want it stimulating my

thyroid

> to produce more T4. I sure hope my ankles go down soon. I'd like

to

> then go REAL slow with the Cytomel. Has anyone had this particular

> problem with ankle swelling taking quite a while to go down? I

don't

> understand why it is taking so long. Yeah, I guess if your

ferritin

> and cortisol are low, it's not easy getting the RT3 cleared out,

and

> Val did say you have to raise very slow. I guess I'll have to be

more

> patient. I'm curious if anyone else with low ferritin and/or low

> cortisol has had this problem with swelling and maybe what other

> problems using T3 (Cytomel) and raising too quickly.

>

>

>

> >

> > AG-am reading your post as I prepare to go to my doc who

proposes I

> take SRT3 rather than Cytomel.? I can only take very low dose per

Val

> because Ferritin/Cortils are still low.? Now I'm SO CONFUSED!?

I've

> heard about SRT3 being " easier " but seems like if I need to

switch, it

> will be difficult and not pleasant? : (? Based on your experience,

> would you choose one or the other to start T3 therapy?? Any

> thoughts/ideas would be so appreciated. ? Thanks, much.

> >

> > Sharon

> >

>

[Guest guest]

It might be low T3 causing the edema. AGAny thoughts on what causes the swelling to stick around when you are no longer on HC or T3 or how to get rid of it? Thanks,

[Guest guest]

>.I know everyone says it wont, that you must go off all t4. But I

cant imagine ever being able to do that, as Im so far behind.

T4 doesn't do anything. Nothing. It has to be converted to T3 before

it can do any good at all for you. By taking T3 you are simple

bypassing the conversion process which, in your case, is not working

the way it should.

Dorothy

[Guest guest]

> if I have some t3 getting in there from the armour, you would think

that b adding some t3 it would just add to it..at least some would

creep in there, ya know?

Not much. If all that T4 is being converted to RT3, the RT3 is going

to be in the tissues, competing with the bit of T3, and blocking it.

The more RT3 being produced, the less chance the little bit of T3 has

to get into the cells and do some good. You have to eliminate the

source of RT3 which is the T4.

The only problem with T3 is that is doesn't last very long. Normally

the T4 is converted to T3 AS IT IS NEEDED. So you only need to take it

once or twice a day. It lasts for weeks. So you have to take T3

several times a day to keep up the blood levels.

This disadvantage is completely outweighed by eliminating the T4 as

source of the RT3 which is blocking your cells. Once the RT3 is

cleared out you will probably be able to go back to Armour, assuming

there is not some chronic problem interfering with the T4 to T3

conversion.

If you have a RT3 buildup, THERE IS NOTHING TO BE GAINED FROM TAKING

ANY T4. You will just get sicker.

Dorothy

[Guest guest]

Leisa...... I'm no ferritin or iron expert. All opinions differ on this from what you read. My thy/adr doc in Texas wanted me 125-150 with ferritin. This might not be a good idea to top out at 150, unless you're a ferritin bleeder. Tony Pearce, a trichiologist for hair/skin/nails, says at 90 to maintain hair. So I figured 100 would be good for hair and thyroid, and not too high. I saw some posts from a board member who went to a hemotologist who claimed no docs really get ferritin, needs to be over 100. So! You have to choose. As for iron binding your thyroid hormone it might not be a problem with you. I am very aware of it with me. I go hypo after a couple of days on it. Always. Last dose of T3 is at 2 p.m., iron at 10 p.m. Still binds serum wise. After about 3 days on it my hair starts to shed heavily as I go toward hypo. Hate it. Doesn't matter what brand. Takes me a while to pull out of it. Have to muster courage to take a dose. Think my ferritin might be slipping as I have been having episodes of air hunger. I don't know here. Always open to things that work for people. You can try and see where you get with a small dose of T3. But keeping adequate cortisol levels is the ticket to proper T4 conversion.AGmy ferritin was up to 58, i understand i should keep taking iron, but is it possible that the iron I take at night is actually causing thyroid to bind? I take Vitanica brand Iron extra. It doesnt hurt my stomach at all..it has herbs as well. when your ferritin is where you want it...then how often do you take it? I also am curious to see if I actually do take hc and support adrenals, and take just a nudge of t3, if that could correct rt3...I know everyone says it wont, that you must go off all t4. But I cant imagine ever being able to do that, as Im so far behind.

[Guest guest]

Yes you have to release the T4 if it's only building Rt3. Hmm. Wonder why adding some HC would create air hunger? And racing heart? A mini thyroid dump? Does anyone get the air hunger part? Sharon, are you low ferritin? AGLeisa/AG:? It's my understanding that you have to stop all T4 to clear out RT3 and that just a nudge of T3 probably won't help?!? Leisa, ask Val to explain this and how you can titer back to?T4 with Armour once you clear RT3 (very helpful). Tomorrow I go to MD to try and convince about Cytomel vs. SRT3.? I'm still conflicted about this, but think the Cytomel is the only thing that will work to clear out RT3 (my ratio is 1:10)? Your comments about palps, air hunger, elevated hr are so interesting and helpful.? I tried HC cream the other day and was up most of night with racing heart/air hunger.? This from probably an increased dose of HC (usually doing Isocort).? This thread has become very helpful-thanks for all of your comments.Sharon

[Guest guest]

The mistake I made adding T3 to 1 1/2 grains armour with high RT3 is that I crashed my adrenals. Seriously crashed. It created too much strain and drain to keep making RT3 with armour and take T3 simultaneously. T3 cleared my cortisol way too quickly where I didn't get much good from the added T3. Was on 17.5 mg HC at the time. Crashing my adrenals happened at 3 a.m. Christmas morning last year. It was a full blown adrenal crisis. Woke bolt upright out of a deep sleep, racing heart that escalated into beating so hard and fast I couldn't get a count. Probably upwards of 175 plus beats a min. Diarrhea, nausea, trembling, sweating, panicked. Came very close to calling 911. Perhaps because of the intense adrenaline surge I could think clearly. Went for salt and vit c and 10 mg HC. Looking back the 10 mg of HC was pathetic, but after 1 hour my heart rate lowered, temps dropped to 95 and I was ice shivery cold. Took me 4 months to rebuild from this. Had to lower T3 and most certainly went off armour. I crawled out of this place. Had to shut my life down. Shut out people, places and things. The best thing would have been to drop the armour entirely and add a small amount of T3. Increase as your temps stabilize.AGPosted by: "Leisa Forman" leisamelanie@... leisamelanieTue Dec 23, 2008 8:42 am (PST)Im interested in you mistake of adding the t3 to the armour. Can you please explain how you went to high on the t3...and also explain how you corrected it..or better what the propper dosages and change over would have been ...thank you