Re: A Substitute for Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN)?

[Guest guest]

Thank you for a breath of sanity. The study should be longer that 17

weeks. Statisticlly 17 weeks with MS won't really out flush any

success or failures. I think the initial Avonex study was 2 years.

I am truly looking forward

to any robust independent study of LDN and

> MS to shut the both of us up.

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Hi alrightguy123,

I have done quite a but of investigating into LDN and, in my opinion,

you are, on the one hand, giving it a bad rap based upon small,

unrepresentative samples, while, on the other hand, disregarding the

little truly scientific research that has been done. That's what irks me

about your LDN-related post. Take the blinders off, man!

Yes, I too, I am looking forward to the results of the current ongoing

LDN studies. Let the chips fall where they may!

And, no, I am not on anyone's payroll.

Dudley

[Guest guest]

I say try it and see if it works for you. You could be on either side of the

statistics. If it works for 30% or 67%, there is no guarantee either way. You

won't know for sure if it will work for you until you become the guinea pig. It

doesn't matter what results the majority gets if you aren't one of them! I can

understand the hopeful thinking, and I hope it works for Dudley, but it's

pointless to argue (debate, discuss, whatever you want to call it) about this

anymore. Both of you can only give accurate information about what YOU

experience. It's easy to get swallowed up by statistics and studies.

alrightguy123 wrote: Thank you for a breath of

sanity. The study should be longer that 17

weeks. Statisticlly 17 weeks with MS won't really out flush any

success or failures. I think the initial Avonex study was 2 years.

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Afternoon Mr. Dudley;

I too have done much research on different treatments. Shoot, I

started a biotech company and love doing research. Talk about lots of

time in medical libraries! When my company went away due to my

business partners death, I made pharmaceutical drugs for a living.

Talk about more research and picking apart science articles.

Whenever I post things there are disclaimer on the info that this is

my experience and does not relate to anyone else. I did have an

exacerbation while taking LDN. That is my experience.

If I had blinders on I'd still be taking Rebif or Copaxone. If I had

blinders on, I wouldn't have noticed the exacerbation while I was on LDN.

I post here because I felt this audience would like to hear a

multitude of views. If you choose to speak for the group and want me

to stop posting, I'll go away.

>

>

> Hi alrightguy123,

>

> I have done quite a but of investigating into LDN and, in my opinion,

> you are, on the one hand, giving it a bad rap based upon small,

> unrepresentative samples, while, on the other hand, disregarding the

> little truly scientific research that has been done. That's what irks me

> about your LDN-related post. Take the blinders off, man!

>

> Yes, I too, I am looking forward to the results of the current ongoing

> LDN studies. Let the chips fall where they may!

>

> And, no, I am not on anyone's payroll.

>

> Dudley

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi alrightguy123,

With a background like yours, you should know better than to trust

small, unrepresentative samples as opposed to the results of truly

scientific research. That's what I mean by " taking the blinders off. "

Just because you had an exacerbation taking LDN does not mean it was not

working for you. Exacerbations have numerous causes (e.g., stress,

trauma, allergens), and in some cases are so powerful that they overrule

or cancel out the effectiveness of LDN until the cause of the

exacerbation is removed.

I do not represent anyone in this group but myself. We all have our

varied opinions about MS and how best to treat it.

If you wish to remain in the group, that's perfectly " alrightguy " with

me.

By the way, do you have a name?

Dudley

[Guest guest]

I say keep them guns ablazin. Just don't shoot too low! .......RP

alrightguy123 wrote: Mr. Dudley;

I am truly glad to hear how you put your formally diagnosed (?) case

of MS in remission with Edgar Caycee's program. It takes courage to

chart our own route when fighting MS. I am equally glad to hear how

you feel the LDN is helping with your probable case of prostate cancer.

I feel that you are quite defensive about the LDN. It seems like when

anyone questions LDN, you come at the questions with all guns blazing.

With me, it's getting to be almost a joke. Whenever anyone

questions LDN, I feel you are almost instantaneously quoting studies

in the defense of LDN. In other venues I'd suspect someone engaging

in these behaviors to be on someone's payroll.

I am truly looking forward to any robust independent study of LDN and

MS to shut the both of us up.

>

>

> Hey alrightguy,

>

> You want a clinical trial to disprove your erroneous assumption that LDN

> has more than a 30% effectiveness in treating MS? Well, you won't have

> to wait long.

>

> A clinical trial of Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN) for MS is currently

> underway at the University of California's San Francisco MS Research

> Center. It is a 17-week, double-blind, crossover study involving 80

> patients. Results are expected this November. For more information about

> this clinical trial, contact Elena Kornyeyeva, M.D., Ph.D., at

>

> elena.kornyeyeva@...

>

> In addition, there is presently a multi-institutional trial of LDN for

> MS being conducted by Dr. Maira Gironi in Italy. It began in December of

> 2006 and I believe it is scheduled to end about the same time as the

> California study.

>

> There was a clinical trial in Germany of LDN for MS from October of 2004

> to April of 2005 involving 60 patients. For information about the study,

> visit

>

> http://www.klinik-dr-evers.de

>

> Regards,

>

> Dudley

>

>

> http://profiles.yahoo.com/dudley_delany

>

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[Guest guest]

I am on Dudley's side here, for once. While I too find his cheerleading for LDN

a bother, I

am after all a cheerleader for helminths, he is right in one very important

respect.

LDN is a low risk option, there are apparently few if any side effects, this is

a drug that has

been used for decades for other purposes. It is likely, like all therapies, to

work for some

not all, where the breaks are the research will determine. Since it is available

to anyone

who can persuade their doctor to write a script why not try it and see if it

works for you?

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that it does for many, there are few if

any side

effects, so why not give it a shot?

jascallaw

>

>

> Hey alrightguy,

>

> You want a clinical trial to disprove your erroneous assumption that LDN

> has more than a 30% effectiveness in treating MS? Well, you won't have

> to wait long.

>

> A clinical trial of Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN) for MS is currently

> underway at the University of California's San Francisco MS Research

> Center. It is a 17-week, double-blind, crossover study involving 80

> patients. Results are expected this November. For more information about

> this clinical trial, contact Elena Kornyeyeva, M.D., Ph.D., at

>

> elena.kornyeyeva@...

>

> In addition, there is presently a multi-institutional trial of LDN for

> MS being conducted by Dr. Maira Gironi in Italy. It began in December of

> 2006 and I believe it is scheduled to end about the same time as the

> California study.

>

> There was a clinical trial in Germany of LDN for MS from October of 2004

> to April of 2005 involving 60 patients. For information about the study,

> visit

>

> http://www.klinik-dr-evers.de

>

> Regards,

>

> Dudley

>

>

> http://profiles.yahoo.com/dudley_delany

>

[Guest guest]

I have never once said LDN was an not a good therapy for some. What I

have said is that it did not work for me and that we should question

the 85% efficacy number.

It is with this post I sever my ties to this group.

>

>

> Hi alrightguy123,

>

> With a background like yours, you should know better than to trust

> small, unrepresentative samples as opposed to the results of truly

> scientific research. That's what I mean by " taking the blinders off. "

>

> Just because you had an exacerbation taking LDN does not mean it was not

> working for you. Exacerbations have numerous causes (e.g., stress,

> trauma, allergens), and in some cases are so powerful that they overrule

> or cancel out the effectiveness of LDN until the cause of the

> exacerbation is removed.

>

> I do not represent anyone in this group but myself. We all have our

> varied opinions about MS and how best to treat it.

>

> If you wish to remain in the group, that's perfectly " alrightguy " with

> me.

>

> By the way, do you have a name?

>

> Dudley

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Amen. That's why I'm trying it. Truth is... if it works for me, I'll

be satisfied, whether I'm in the 67% or .00067% range.

Peace & love

>

> I say try it and see if it works for you. You could be on either

side of the statistics. If it works for 30% or 67%, there is no

guarantee either way. You won't know for sure if it will work for you

until you become the guinea pig. It doesn't matter what results the

majority gets if you aren't one of them! I can understand the hopeful

thinking, and I hope it works for Dudley, but it's pointless to argue

(debate, discuss, whatever you want to call it) about this anymore.

Both of you can only give accurate information about what YOU

experience. It's easy to get swallowed up by statistics and studies.

[Guest guest]

I don't think you should sever your ties with the group because of

conflict with one member. We need input from everyone, and I for one

really appreciate your calcium eap reports, as this is somthing I may

do.

However, at the same point, I wish the two of you would stop posting

over the efficacy of LDN. We all know people have different opinions

and experiences with LDN--ranging from rave reviews as though it's the

answer to MS to thinking it's bogus. People can just do their own

research and decide for themselves.

>

> I have never once said LDN was an not a good therapy for some. What I

> have said is that it did not work for me and that we should question

> the 85% efficacy number.

>

[Guest guest]

Thank YOU for this reasonable post! Anyone just join the LDN

Yahoo or Google group if that is what she/he would want to do.

Love to you all,

n

-------------- Original message ----------------------

> I don't think you should sever your ties with the group because of

> conflict with one member. We need input from everyone, and I for one

> really appreciate your calcium eap reports, as this is somthing I may

> do.

>

> However, at the same point, I wish the two of you would stop posting

> over the efficacy of LDN. We all know people have different opinions

> and experiences with LDN--ranging from rave reviews as though it's the

> answer to MS to thinking it's bogus. People can just do their own

> research and decide for themselves.

>

>

> >

> > I have never once said LDN was an not a good therapy for some. What I

> > have said is that it did not work for me and that we should question

> > the 85% efficacy number.

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

, n, , and all you other folks who are grieving and

mourning the loss of alrightguy123--you are breaking my heart! Shall I

pass you a hankie? Or perhaps we should have an improptu funeral

service?

Personally, I see no reason for his having left the group, and his

action was, in my opinion, a little childish--if the game doesn't go

your way, you take your ball and bat and go home.

He's a grown man and can make his own decision as to whether to remain

in the group--he doesn't need you, me, or anyone else to make it for

him. If he can't handle a little constructive criticism, I think maybe

he made the right decision.

Regards,

Dudley

[Guest guest]

I question the efficacy rate of LDN also. I gave it a good try of 3 months and

felt definitely worse on it. I know of several others who had relapses and/or

worsening of symptoms after starting on LDN also. I'm not sure where the stats

came from , but I've found that on remedyfind.com people who are not having

great benefits hesitate to post there at all about it henceforth obviously,

skewering the results. Also on the ldn yahoo group anyone who posted that they

were having " troubles " while on LDN were quickly told by others in the group

that it must be their filler or some other factor rather than the LDN causing

it. With that, I'll close as I'm sick of the back and forth that's been going on

on this subject.

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[Guest guest]

It is always sad when someone just pulls up stakes, and cannot

even bother to politely leave--sad for that person, especially. I

was merely thanking and believe me, I did not even think

of reaching for the Kleenex, nor the paper towels, much less the

" toilet tissue! "

Cheers your way, Dudley,

n

-------------- Original message ----------------------

From: DudleyDelany@...

>

> , n, , and all you other folks who are grieving and

> mourning the loss of alrightguy123--you are breaking my heart! Shall I

> pass you a hankie? Or perhaps we should have an improptu funeral

> service?

>

> Personally, I see no reason for his having left the group, and his

> action was, in my opinion, a little childish--if the game doesn't go

> your way, you take your ball and bat and go home.

>

> He's a grown man and can make his own decision as to whether to remain

> in the group--he doesn't need you, me, or anyone else to make it for

> him. If he can't handle a little constructive criticism, I think maybe

> he made the right decision.

>

> Regards,

>

> Dudley

>

[Guest guest]

I think he just didn't want to give his name, thats all. ...RP

DudleyDelany@... wrote:

, n, , and all you other folks who are grieving and

mourning the loss of alrightguy123--you are breaking my heart! Shall I

pass you a hankie? Or perhaps we should have an improptu funeral

service?

Personally, I see no reason for his having left the group, and his

action was, in my opinion, a little childish--if the game doesn't go

your way, you take your ball and bat and go home.

He's a grown man and can make his own decision as to whether to remain

in the group--he doesn't need you, me, or anyone else to make it for

him. If he can't handle a little constructive criticism, I think maybe

he made the right decision.

Regards,

Dudley

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

He did actually post that he was leaving due to the argument.

Rojas5915@... wrote: It is always sad when someone just pulls up

stakes, and cannot

even bother to politely leave--sad for that person, especially. I

was merely thanking and believe me, I did not even think

of reaching for the Kleenex, nor the paper towels, much less the

" toilet tissue! "

Cheers your way, Dudley,

n

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[Guest guest]

Dear Group:

Well, I feel obligated to support the views of Bruce and Kathy since they so

courageously spoke up.

Heidi

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