Re: val- switching to armour

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

December 10, 2008

I was upto 150mcg T3 whihc over time proved to be too high but ti took

MONTHS to develop hyper symptoms on that dose which si VERY strange. I

knwo my RT3 was cleared long before I went hyper in 150. So I went ot

125mcg and held ther efor a while. I stil just did nto fe3l right but ti

was there I felt the first high cortiolsl symptoms. So as I lowered HC I

began switching back to Armour. I started wiht a full grain. It was

about 3 weeks after that addition my pulse was slowly rising, so I

dropped at first 12.5mcg T3 thne in a few more days another 12.5mcg,

thne a couple more weeks raised Armoru to 2 grains, and kept going till

I wason 4 grains and 50mcg T3.Then hyoper symtoms kept creeping in so I

slowly reduced the T3 till I was just on 4 grains Armoru. Last week I

dropped another grain Amrour as my temps are averaging too high I even

got to 99.8 one evening! OUCH and sis not feellike I was trunning a

fever so I am convinced it was hyper. Since dropping to 3 grains I am

feeling much mroe balanced. I am concerned that my cortils may be

falling agian so am anxiously waiting for my stooppid urine test results

done last Friday. They sdhould bein by now but no word from the doc yet.

I noticed soince dropping to 3 grains I am now sleeping better in the

mornings as I was waking too early and my afternoon fatigeu is MUCH

better so that was from being hyper.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

December 10, 2008

Yes I think there is more to thyroi resistance than just RT3. Two

differnt animals but I also thingk a persoin can have nboth and I

certainly feel I have had both. Little is knwon or written about thyroi

dresistance form other causes but there si SOME info about it. Usually

what a search brings up is genetic receptor problems but THAT peopel are

bormn with an d experience probklesm from birth,I did not. There ar also

a tyope of antibodies to THYROID homrones themselves whihc can cause a

resistance but I have not found out how to test for that or how to treat

it.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

December 10, 2008

I agree with you 100%. Lowe had a lot to say about the self tapering effects of

T3.

Did you switch all at once to the one dosing or trade over slowly? Apparently a

good

majority of Lowe's patients, including his wife Tammy, take it all at once.

One patient he

mentioned woke at night to pee and took it then so it didn't mess with food.

With a successful trade to all one dose I would think receptors have to open for

it as we

step it up gradually just like we do with dosing T3 or armour. ?? I don't think

we can just

take 3 doses and put them together successfully. Over time I could..... or

could I?

Just because we take 150 mcg of T3 all at once doesn't mean it all goes into the

cells at

once. For example, I have open receptors for 45 mcg. first thing in the

morning. I can't

just take 10 mcg. from my 10 a.m. dose and add it to the first dose and cruise

along. I

could do this if i worked up to it- me thinks!

AG

>

> That is onw thing with Lowe's protocol I have never agreed with. I tried

> it. The one time daily dosing. OUCh is all I cna say. Shook and trembled

> ahlf the day and then crashed and could not stay awake. It is VREY

> possible each of us metabolises it differntly at differnt rates too. For

> me even three times daiy dosing I had ups and downs. And how

> UNbiological is it to have all tht T3 in the blood at once instead of a

> steady trickle through the day as our own thyroid would produce it?

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

December 10, 2008

Val, could it be that you became hyper on 150 mcg. over time because you became

more

T3 sensitive? My dose it also going down over time. Have been doing this a

year. Am at

my lowest yet and still a touch hyper. 125 mcg. It's not HC or salt/c either.

It's the real

deal hyper.

Thank you for your description! Excellent. I dred changing back over as

thyroid hormone

changes make me insane. Mentally I break with the swing back and forth.

Since being on T3 only I've been able to go from 32.5 mg HC to 15 mg. T3 drives

the

adrenals alright. I think I would keep my HC on board and make the switch. But

then

again I need the 15 mg.

I know I am hyper as my E is drained out, sleep short hours, wake repeatedly and

early.

Totally hyper stuff. My temps don't say it as well as rapid digestive transit

and

nervousness.

AG

>

> I was upto 150mcg T3 whihc over time proved to be too high but ti took

> MONTHS to develop hyper symptoms on that dose which si VERY strange. I

> knwo my RT3 was cleared long before I went hyper in 150. So I went ot

> 125mcg and held ther efor a while. I stil just did nto fe3l right but ti

> was there I felt the first high cortiolsl symptoms. So as I lowered HC I

> began switching back to Armour. I started wiht a full grain. It was

> about 3 weeks after that addition my pulse was slowly rising, so I

> dropped at first 12.5mcg T3 thne in a few more days another 12.5mcg,

> thne a couple more weeks raised Armoru to 2 grains, and kept going till

> I wason 4 grains and 50mcg T3.Then hyoper symtoms kept creeping in so I

> slowly reduced the T3 till I was just on 4 grains Armoru. Last week I

> dropped another grain Amrour as my temps are averaging too high I even

> got to 99.8 one evening! OUCH and sis not feellike I was trunning a

> fever so I am convinced it was hyper. Since dropping to 3 grains I am

> feeling much mroe balanced. I am concerned that my cortils may be

> falling agian so am anxiously waiting for my stooppid urine test results

> done last Friday. They sdhould bein by now but no word from the doc yet.

> I noticed soince dropping to 3 grains I am now sleeping better in the

> mornings as I was waking too early and my afternoon fatigeu is MUCH

> better so that was from being hyper.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

December 10, 2008

Try ti and let us know. I tried both ways several differnt ways. I have

played with T3 for 15 years and never could take it in less than 4 doses

and feel right.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

December 11, 2008

I know, that's what freaks me out about Armour or even adding T4 to cytomel. No way could I handle 4-6 weeks of being hyper. Sometimes I worry about not being on something more natural and sometimes I don't care. My good doctor says we don't need T4, I know Dr Lowe is on T3 only and has been for a long time yet my not so great doctor says the way I'm doing it isn't physiological and want me to add 25mcg of T4. I simply do not know what to do.

I guess if I just add the T4 and go hyper lowing the cytomel would work to relieve hyper symptoms?

birrdyy wrote:

> I agree Sol. I love the way you can adjust the T3 from one day to the

> next. I was thinking about this very thing the other day. If you're

> on Armour and you go hyper, how long do you have to stay hyper before

> things settle down. That would be horrid.

I could be wrong about this, but I think it would take the same 4 to 6

weeks or more before enough T4 left your system? Not sure, but a heck of

a lot longer than it takes to stop being hyper from too much T3. Even

though I was darned hyper for a few months late last year and into Jan

and Feb of this year, once it got noticed (help from this list) I

dropped the T3 rather drastically between one day and the next, and the

worst of it stopped very quickly. Then I had to find a new balance, as

of course I dropped too low, LOL.

sol

December 13, 2008

I think so, but it still destabilizes things. Needing less thyroid med

can mean a need to also decrease HC or change doses of other hormones.

It is all connected.

RE you saying you'd rather be a bit hyper--one time I thought that too,

but I no longer do. I'll take being just a tad hypo any day over being a

bit hyper.

sol

Leisa Forman wrote:

> Isnt needing less t3 a GOOD thing?

>

> Subject: Re: val- switching to armour

> To: RT3_T3

> Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 2:32 PM

>

> Hear you!! I lost my stability when I rose T3 with the winter and

> when I tapered off a partial dose of T3. Never have been able to

> get it right - yet! I think my adrenals get into such an uproar

> with the fiddling that there is NO way I can make anymore

> adjustments until I stabilize where I am and then take some

> continuous vitals. Then I can see. And yes, throwing sex

> hormones in can really crank the works. But they often have to be

> adjusted. It's one of the beauties and one of the nightmares.

> Yeah, I would think lowering your ferritin, making HC and T3

> adjustments as well as sex hormones would be a pill. I always

> think I should do just one thing at a time. Period. But it

> doesn't work this way. I find that I can't " set " a dose as much

> as I would LOVE to. With T3 I am becoming MORE sensitive to it

> then I was 3 months ago. I keep needing less and going hyper on

> lower doses. My greatest fear is to have all the hormones off or

> in need of changing at the same time. Nightmare!

>

> AG

>

> I'm in the same place, weird things going on, everything feels in

> flux,

> and neither raising nor lowering really feels right. (I refer to

> both my

> HC and T3). I'm playing with them both within a very narrow range,

> but

> can't seem to get back to feeling as stable as I once did.

> Experimenting

> with sex hormones may be what is destabilizing me so much, but I

> got to

> a place where I really felt like I needed to give them a very good

> trial.

> And I also am lowering my ferritin at the same time. Lot of stuff

> going

> on, maybe too many things, but it all needed to be addressed. I

> guess I

> really hoped that once as optimal as I was ever going to get on HC

> and

> T3, I could fix other things without messing up those two, but it

> doesn't seem to work that way.

> And sometimes dosing needs just seem to change for no reason, too.

> " just

> because " . Maybe as healing takes place?

> sol

>

December 13, 2008

Well, Im very excited that I just started 5 m of cytomel in addition to my 2 1/2 armour yesterday.

I felt warm and much more energy. I did have a hard time sleeping as I woke for several hour during the night...so I decided to only take 2 1/4 armour today and take the 5 cytomel again. Im hoping that I dont just feel good for a couple of weks and then bad again.

At some point Id like to cut another 1/4 grain armour..so that Id be taking only 2 grains..and then take extra cytomel , 10m Leisa

>

> Subject: Re: val- switching to armour

> To: RT3_T3

> Date: Friday, December 12, 2008, 2:32 PM

>

> Hear you!! I lost my stability when I rose T3 with the winter and

> when I tapered off a partial dose of T3. Never have been able to

> get it right - yet! I think my adrenals get into such an uproar

> with the fiddling that there is NO way I can make anymore

> adjustments until I stabilize where I am and then take some

> continuous vitals. Then I can see. And yes, throwing sex

> hormones in can really crank the works. But they often have to be

> adjusted. It's one of the beauties and one of the nightmares.

> Yeah, I would think lowering your ferritin, making HC and T3

> adjustments as well as sex hormones would be a pill. I always

> think I should do just one thing at a time. Period. But it

> doesn't work this way. I find that I can't "set" a

dose as much

> as I would LOVE to. With T3 I am becoming MORE sensitive to it

> then I was 3 months ago. I keep needing less and going hyper on

> lower doses. My greatest fear is to have all the hormones off or

> in need of changing at the same time. Nightmare!

>

> AG

>

> I'm in the same place, weird things going on, everything feels in

> flux, > and neither raising nor lowering really feels right. (I refer to

> both my > HC and T3). I'm playing with them both within a very narrow range,

> but > can't seem to get back to feeling as stable as I once did.

> Experimenting > with sex hormones may be what is destabilizing me so much, but I

> got to > a place where I really felt like I needed to give them a very good

> trial.

> And I also am lowering my ferritin at the same time. Lot of stuff

> going > on, maybe too many things, but it all needed to be addressed. I

> guess I > really hoped that once as optimal as I was ever going to get on HC

> and > T3, I could fix other things without messing up those two, but it > doesn't seem to work that way.

> And sometimes dosing needs just seem to change for no reason, too.

> "just > because". Maybe as healing takes place?

> sol

>

> ------------------------------------

December 13, 2008

Indeed! The only negative for me is that I am now way more sensitive to dose adjustments then when I started T3 a year ago. What was bad for me was mistakenly go UP in dose and getting really hyper after I had become more sensitized. Use to be 10 mcg didn't make a huge splash one way or the other. Now it's 2.5 mcg adjustments. Learning this was painful. My last increase from 125 to 135 about pushed me over the edge. The effects lingered for 3-5 days as it hurt my adrenals which have been doing fine for something. Strong, even temps. But needing less T3 is wonderful in many ways. I would say that my RT3 cleared out this past July at the latest. This would mean that other things have been taking place to create the greater sensitivity. Perhaps less resistance. All is good with this it's just spotting this and telling the difference between the other hormone possibilities, not to mention staying on top of ferritin! It sounds simple to know when T3 is more effective and when we need less, but sometimes we are too close to see it. AGRe: val- switching to armourPosted by: "Leisa Forman" leisamelanie@... leisamelanieFri Dec 12, 2008 2:42 pm (PST)Isnt needing less t3 a GOOD thing?

December 13, 2008

Thank you Sol for such a vivid and truthful view of hyper for you. I could nearly have written this myself! Except I don't have hyper-defecation as you say, I have swift digestive transit! LOL!! ;-) Worse joint pain, worse insomnia, hyperdefecation and diarrhea to where it leaked uncontrollably (nice, huh!). I can't believe I didn't realize that was a hyper symptom, but I didn't. >>>>>> yes AND for me this was also low cortisol when I was on armour last year and not on hc. near daily diarrhea. Had NO idea until I got on HC and it stopped. And then there is drinking sea salt, taking high vit C doses and magnesium. ALL of these can cause loose bowels! How to know??!! Symptom clusters I suppose. Grouping symptoms and taking vitals is the only way. Insomnia. Oh yeah, got this pretty bad at the moment. Am now lowering T3 so I can see. Today at 120, down from 125.Then I had a blood panel, and my cholesterol had dropped from 215 to 143. I asked here what the heck? And was told I was hyper.>>>>>> didn't know this was related. Good tidbit here. My temps didn't tell me back then, because I wasn't using my thermometer correctly.>>>>> how so? At the time it all came together after the blood results came back, I was still in the process of raising T3, pushing to get higher, duh! I thought most of my symptoms were because I was still too low, but I passed right on through my optimal dose and didn't recognize it at all.>>>> DITTO!! Me too exactly. I kept pushing higher because I had hair loss and all the other symptoms you mention. And my temps didn't relate because of adrenals. I caused the worst hair loss of all being hyper. It comes out in a telegen effluvium manner. New hair, old hair, ALL the hair. Horrible shedding.I also had symptoms I didn't properly attribute, such as nervousness, shakiness, things easily put down to low cortisol, but in retrospect I think cortisol was going low because T3 was too high.>>>>> right, high t3 stomping down the adrenals. Also, another hyper symptom for me that I didn't connect was my handwriting looks like scribbles. I was thinking, "when did this deteriorate"? I mean, it's BAD. I've always been a little dyslexic with writing wrong letters and such, scratching out, but this is erratic writing. I learned a lot about hyper symptoms by reading the graves sites. They go into a bit finer detail about hyper symptoms. Not your usual basics. The handwriting sx showed up on there. Also tremors in fingertips which relates to the poor handwriting I'm sure.I now watch for any consistent (since I can get this from other causes too) increase in GI "transit" as you call it, as that is a biggie. It is hard to notice sometimes since I've had IBS-D for about 30 years. It sounds stupid but I have to stop and think to notice whether it is better or worse, and if worse, does it continue to worsen or was it a "one of". Also increased joint pain and higher temps (now).>>>> i wish I got the higher temps, but I don't. At my worst hyper, with cortisol maintaining, I was 98.4. So how do you tell the diff between rapid digestive transit (euphemism) and salt, c and mag? This is a sx of mine that I am trying hard to distinguish.>>>> thanks Sol, excellent info from you as always. And thanks again for the Iron info you emailed me. As you can see I have been caught up here with a mess. Will get to it.AGsol

December 13, 2008

LOl AKA Poop SWOOSH! Gotcha on thta one!

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

December 13, 2008

Is it better now that you have gone down on thyroid? Mine was from

hyper, how about you?

I agree about the tums calcium, it helps when I have an occasional mild

problem now. But that kind of severe problem has meant hyper for me.

Though certain supplements and foods (Kefir) can also cause

it--(magnesium even at very low dose, vit C, and so on). In those cases

it isn't ongoing like it was from too much thyroid.

sol

wrote:

> YUP Try trying to work with this going on! I felt like I am the one

> thatshould have been in a crate at work not the dogs! LOL I have towels

> for all my chairs and changes of clothign at work ALWAYS. Weird thiing

> one of the reasons I went upto 40mg HC was this problem.. steroids are

> SUPPOSED to helpthis. HA! I got a MUCh better handle onit as I lowered

> the HC! BTW soeone suggested to me to try Tums and THEY HELP BIG TIME! I

> was taling about 6-8 of them a day and it really made a differnce. When

> you are in that state I think you would do anything to fix it. VERY

> embarrassing. Sneeze in the car on the way o work.. OOPS. Cough..oops,

> bend over.. OOPS. $hi_... Not to mention 54 is a bit young for Depends

> and they are expensive!

>

December 14, 2008

I have isolated several things that were causing it. Krill oil,

sublingual B-12, sublingual DHEA, Vitamin E, and high thyroid..

altogether DISASTER! the sublinguals all contain Mannitol for

sweetness,. it has ALWAYS given me problems, but I had forgotten. The

oils.. just greased everything up. STill tried Krill oil again last week

since it has been much better.. right back again.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

December 14, 2008

Hmmm. Not happy to hear this! If the question is more HC can't you pin it down with sit/stand bp? I would think it would take a bit more than 5 mg if this were what it was. My splashing digestive transit on 3 grains of armour and no HC was constant. Perhaps it's just a passing thing. How much C are you on? C is a killer for me bowel wise. No, you don't have time for this. I could tell you some stories about my ordeal, but I would embarrass myself.AGWell detective or no, mine is back this AM with a vengeance.. UGH... I am now on 3 grians Armour ONLY no HC, thought= I took 5mg this morning JUST IN CASE it is low, did not help. HMPH.. I am gettign tired of this needing diapers crap! Woth 8 dogs to groom tody I do nto have TIME or energy for this,. Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

December 14, 2008

I am waiting for the results of 24 hour cortisol urine test that I did

over a week ago. That shoud settle it if I need HC or not nbut I had

this horrid problems ion 40mg HC too, so I do not think that is ti. I

also stress dosed today and it did nothing to help it. I thnk it si

plain old IBS possibly from adhesions fromn the Endometriosis and PID I

had at 27 years old. Took two wide open abdominal surgeries to get rid

of it as even after a complete hyst my cysts cam eback! they told mne

then i may well have adhesions later in life. Oh joy.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

December 14, 2008

Hey Val, since you were able to get off HC, does that mean that your

adrenals are fine now?

How long were you on it for? And how did you now that you could wean

off of it?

-Jung

>

> Well detective or no, mine is back this AM with a vengeance.. UGH...

I am now on 3 grians Armour ONLY no HC, thought= I took 5mg this

morning JUST IN CASE it is low, did not help. HMPH.. I am gettign

tired of this needing diapers crap! Woth 8 dogs to groom tody I do nto

have TIME or energy for this,.

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

December 15, 2008

I do nto know that they are FINE yet. I am still waiting for a 24 hour

urine cortiosl test to come back nad I am stil stress dosing 1-2 times a

week as I have pain in one shoulder that has returned from an old injury

and not so sure i like that as it may be inflammation from beionga bit

liow, but other than that I have been off it over a month wiht no drop

in temps and Feeling OK aside fom the muscle pain I a hainvg which i the

same on or off HC, Can;t afford saliva testing right now so it will wait

till Spring. I was ion HC for about 3.5 years and the last year 30-40MG.

I actually started having high cortils symoptoms that were

unmistakable,. Bruising form every insulin shot and higher BP and fluid

retention.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/