Re: Re: What could have.....

[Guest guest]

Tonya,

I've found that for *me* illness plays a huge factor in what my BG's are.

Yesterday I couldn't get my bg's under 10 (180) and knew it wasn't anything

I eaten. I wake up this morning and am feeling quite ill. Vomiting,

diahorrea, blah, blah,blah. This happens to me everytime I have an

unexplainably high BG reading. YMMV.

anne (3 weeks until next HbA1C and counting!)

I believe that friends are quiet angels who lift us to our feet when our

wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

What could have.....

> >

> >

> > raised my husband's blood sugar tonight? Am I killing him????

> >

> > Earlier this afternoon, he was at 169 and then two hours after

> supper

> > it was 266!!!!

> >

> > For supper, he had a garden salad with a vinegar based dressing

> which

> > had 3g of carbs... he used serving size. I also made stir fried

> beef

> > with green bell peppers and onions. To stir fry, I used soy

> sauce,

> > vegetable oil, and lawry's seasoned salt.

> >

> > I did something wrong, there, didn't I?

> >

> > Tonya

> >

> >

> > eGroups Sponsor

> >

> >

> > Public website for Diabetes International:

> > http://www.msteri.com/diabetes-info/diabetes_int

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

> Tonya, I don't think he should have such high levels, it is damaging. I

> took 2.5mg of micronase/diabeta/glyburide, (same thing) and had great

> sugars.

Sam,

I'm surprised at you! These are Sulfoneureas you're advocating!

anne

dx T2dm 9/00

last HbA1c - 8.7

Cholesterol - 6.4

[Guest guest]

> Sam, he always washes them before testing and then uses the alcohol

> swab

Tonya,

The swab could well be the problem! If he washes his hands is warm soapy

water there's no need for the swab! The warmth of the water and the action

of washing them should encourage circulation in his fingers enough to get

sufficient blood for the test.

anne

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/12/2000 10:23:54 AM Pacific Standard Time,

hiddentreasures@... writes:

<< Anyhow, he tests twice while working at Mcs and he usually

holds a steady rate. Sometimes it does go up, but mostly, not. He

holds an average of 233 according to his graphs at diabetesnow where

I put everything in at night to keep up He writes it all in his

journal and I log it there at night. >>

hmmmmmmmmm, maybe smelling all those french fries are raising his BS?? = )

Could he possibly be eating some food there or at Taco Bell that would cause

his sugars to rise?

Meniowl@...

type2,dx7/99, low-carbs

(last A1c 5.0) Normal range 4.8-6.0

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/12/2000 1:19:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,

hiddentreasures@... writes:

<< I guess those bagged salad mixes aren't too good for him, then are

they? The one I've been buying has carrots and stuff in it.

>>

Per Bernstein, there are so few carrots in those salads that is OK to have

them. Some of us just have to be careful of munching on a whole plain carrot

or cooked carrots.

Bernstein's book is a must read. Check it out at your library. You can read

some of the chapters online for free at:

http://www.diabetes-normalsugars.com/index.shtml

Meniowl@...

type2,dx7/99, low-carbs

(last A1c 5.0) Normal range 4.8-6.0

[Guest guest]

Tonya, I don't think he should have such high levels, it is damaging. I

took 2.5mg of micronase/diabeta/glyburide, (same thing) and had great

sugars. I had to be ready to treat lows, I used animal crackers in my

pocket. At that time I could buy a pound bag for $1. Sam

Remember wash the hands,,,

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 00-11-12 15:58:46 EST, you write:

<<

I am beginning to envy you guys with your insulin, Vicki. It seems

that I am missing out on a lot of great opportunities to experiment.

>>

I assume you've got your tongue firmly planted in your cheek,

...nevertheless, my BGs have definitely improved since I started insulin

and I've learned not to mind the multitudinous pokes I have to do. The

improved BGs are definitely worth it. Vicki

[Guest guest]

Where I am it's possible to get bagged salad mixes without carrots. Look

around, maybe you can find something like that. I don't know where you live

but if there's a Trader Joe's in your area they have many different kinds of

bagged salads and quite a few of them are without carrots.

And yes, it's interesting that cooking changes carb counts. Generally

speaking, the uncooked are lower than the cooked. Also, if you're into GI

index, the cooked are higher GI index than the uncooked. (You can learn

about GI index on Rick Mendosa's website, URL is a link on our website).

Vicki

In a message dated 00-11-12 16:19:44 EST, you write:

<<

I guess those bagged salad mixes aren't too good for him, then are

they? The one I've been buying has carrots and stuff in it.

Interesting how they end up with carbs after they are cooked. I was

telling my husband about that... kind of makes you wonder how that

happens!

>>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 00-11-12 17:48:15 EST, you write:

<<

<< He is a little congested but I read on his prescription paper that he

can't take deconestants. Has anyone done this? >>

When I'm congested I use those nasal strips that you apply to the outside of

the nose. They look funny and hurt like heck when you rip 'em off but they

work. Vicki

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/12/2000 1:23:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,

hiddentreasures@... writes:

>

OK, heres the most likely problem he's having, he may be eating too much meat

at one time, it does turn to glucose in 2 hours and will raise bg.

I learned on another diabetes list, a very technical one, every 16oz beef is

comparable to 60 gms carb. I have tested this and its about right, it might

be better for him hopefully, as I'm not very active.

I was always a big meat eater, thought I could eat all I wanted, its ok if

you can cover it with meds or insulin, but it is quite a bit, not only carbs

raise bg, anything you eat does.

On my other list they swear they can eat only 3oz at a time, I'm not this

good!!! LOL

I eat about 6-8oz (used to eat a pound or more every time) at a time, and I

inject regular insulin about 30min after I finish eat and it will cover the

protein, but still use the humalog before eating for the carbs.

carol

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/12/2000 7:17:21 PM Pacific Standard Time,

astrocarly@... writes:

<< OK, heres the most likely problem he's having, he may be eating too much

meat

at one time, it does turn to glucose in 2 hours and will raise bg.

I learned on another diabetes list, a very technical one, every 16oz beef is

comparable to 60 gms carb. >>

WOW, I SO totally disagree with you on this. Definitely this IS a YMMV (your

mileage may vary) type of thing. I can handle a 22 oz hunk of prime rib at a

time and not have my blood sugars go up.

Meniowl@...

type2,dx7/99, low-carbs

(last A1c 5.0) Normal range 4.8-6.0

[Guest guest]

Sam Levy wrote:

<< I took 2.5mg of micronase/diabeta/glyburide, (same thing) and had great

sugars. I had to be ready to treat lows, I used animal crackers in my

pocket. >>

Of course you had " great sugars. " You were taking a dangerous drug that

kills pancreas beta cells as well as greatly increases heart attack risk,

and can kill people and cause weight gain.

We've been over this subject too many tiimes for you, Sam, the Old-timer, to

be recommending an outmoded, dangerous, pancreas-killing drug, when there

are other drugs available that are much safer. There is no excuse for you to

go on and on about something that you know darn well is not a safe drug for

diabetics to take.

Susie

[Guest guest]

Susie, we are all molded by our experiences, I felt that one pill a day

that gave great sugars was an improvement over 4 meter readings a day,

record books and shot adjustments. My experience was positive, and I

regret the use of loaded words to describe a diabetic medication. your

fears from your experience are your own, and need not be the guide for

every diabetic.

I was my own doctor, in spite of a lack oftotal knowledge, I managed to

find my own way out. I had a fairly long experience writing to people

with NO resources, how to guide them? Many of them culturally were using

rice as a staple food, or meat and potatoes.. Many could not afford test

tapes, meters, or at least they were scarce.

I guided them to dietary control where possible, 95% are capable of it.

For me medication served as aa bridge to dietary control.

I was literally forced off oral by repeated low sugars, so I try to wean

people off medication where diet will do the job.

I do fear and deplore people using medication and making no other

changes, like diet. I wrote to 2 I recall that believed in good ol doc

so and so and and the ADA diet, and ended up fat and on insulin. Not

that that is the end of the world, but it is a trap that the unwary can

fall into, that is hard to recover from.

So what I write is for the mainstream diabetic that can control by diet,

and has no special conditions like pregnancy or use of cortisone. Sam

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/12/2000 11:33:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,

meniowl@... writes:

> WOW, I SO totally disagree with you on this. Definitely this IS a YMMV

> (your

> mileage may vary) type of thing. I can handle a 22 oz hunk of prime rib at

> a

> time and not have my blood sugars go up.

>

How often and what times did you test, sorry, its a medical fact, meat does

turn to glucose about 2-3 hrs after consumption.

The YMMV thing is the timing of the glucose dump here, and the amount you eat

not the fact that it is or isn't, anything you put in your mouth will turn to

glucose.

Carbs in 1 HR, protein 2 hrs, that's why the 2 HR PP testing is recommended.

ADA will soon be posting new guidelines for this reason, 1 HR just isn't

being recommended, 2 HR is being questioned, 3 hrs is more conclusive and is

indicative of what your a1c levels will be.

Its really an eye opener isn't it, things one never thought of that affects

dm.

Hey, I was surprised by most of this too, just heard this recently on another

list, but I saw it posted from the endo on the list, so you'll probably be

hearing about it soon.

carol

[Guest guest]

anne, the glyburide is a second generation sulfonurea, instead of

grams dose I used 2.5 milligrams. The max dose is 10mg. I was forced to

half dose and then to diet by lows, when I lost weight. Thay served for

a time, and no I don't think in such doses they are any harm, for a

while. I have a neighbor on them at 10mg for 5-6 years and his sugars

are now dropping. Sam

[Guest guest]

Is this Sam real?

I've never come across such pseudo humilty to the extent that it betrays

arrogance

[Guest guest]

I still disagree with you on this.

In a message dated 11/12/2000 11:08:55 PM Pacific Standard Time,

astrocarly@... writes:

*******I learned on another diabetes list, a very technical one, every 16oz

beef is

comparable to 60 gms carb. ********

*****How often and what times did you test, sorry, its a medical fact, meat

does

turn to glucose about 2-3 hrs after consumption. *********

It does turn into glucose, but not the equivalency of 60 grams of carbs for

16 oz of meat. I would be passed out if that were the case. I keep my carb

intake under 30 grams a day.

I [in the name of science = ) ] will just have to go out and have some more

prime rib and then document my numbers. Just call me !!!!

And if it turns out that you are correct, instead of eating crow, I will just

have to have more prime rib!! = )

Meniowl@...

type2,dx7/99, low-carbs

(last A1c 5.0) Normal range 4.8-6.0

[Guest guest]

Hi, Susie, and list,

I am intrigued by this declaration that carbs are poison. I have been under

the impression that SUGAR is poison. How many servings of carbs does

everyone have per day?

Thank you,

MImi Dionne

Mimi Dionne

[Diabetes] may have robbed me of that blissful ignorance that once led me to

believe that tomorrow stretched forever. In exchange I've been granted the

wisdom to see each today as something special, a gift to be used wisely and

fully. Nothing can take that away.

_________________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Well, maybe I wasn't quite right when I said you can eat all the meat,

chicken or fish you want, no carbs. It does have protein and some people

need to count for that and if they're taking insulin, cover for it. For

myself, I don't eat more than 8 oz. meat/chicken/fish at any one time and my

system can handle it (I've tested). Again, it seems to be one of those YMMV

things. Vicki

In a message dated 00-11-12 22:17:41 EST, you write:

<<

OK, heres the most likely problem he's having, he may be eating too much

meat

at one time, it does turn to glucose in 2 hours and will raise bg.

I learned on another diabetes list, a very technical one, every 16oz beef is

comparable to 60 gms carb. I have tested this and its about right, it might

be better for him hopefully, as I'm not very active.

I was always a big meat eater, thought I could eat all I wanted, its ok if

you can cover it with meds or insulin, but it is quite a bit, not only carbs

raise bg, anything you eat does.

On my other list they swear they can eat only 3oz at a time, I'm not this

good!!! LOL

I eat about 6-8oz (used to eat a pound or more every time) at a time, and I

inject regular insulin about 30min after I finish eat and it will cover the

protein, but still use the humalog before eating for the carbs.

>>

[Guest guest]

I've been sick, so my carb intake is up a little, but on average I run about

3-4 servings a day (about 60 grams).

Robin G.

>

>Reply-To: diabetes_integroups

>To: diabetes_integroups

>Subject: Re: Re: What could have.....

>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 08:38:30 EST

>

>Hi, Susie, and list,

>

>I am intrigued by this declaration that carbs are poison. I have been

>under

>the impression that SUGAR is poison. How many servings of carbs does

>everyone have per day?

>

>Thank you,

>

>MImi Dionne

>

>Mimi Dionne

>[Diabetes] may have robbed me of that blissful ignorance that once led me

>to

>believe that tomorrow stretched forever. In exchange I've been granted the

>wisdom to see each today as something special, a gift to be used wisely and

>fully. Nothing can take that away.

>

>_________________________________________________________________________

>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

>

>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

>http://profiles.msn.com.

>

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[Guest guest]

Hi Susie, and list,

I had noticed that about the ADA. I wondered if I was the only one!

Grrrrr...

I also have mono at the moment, so my sugars are running high. My lovely

petit ami, who is also a TypeII, and I are going into a bargain to eat less

carbs. I always go into a higher sugar count when I eat bread, regardless

of what it is, so...seems natural I should cut it out anyway, eh? *smile

I wonder if I should eat more proteins, tho...

Mimi

>

>Reply-To: diabetes_integroups

>To: <diabetes_integroups>

>Subject: Re: Re: What could have.....

>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 09:42:39 -0700

>

>That's a lovely quote you used for your signature, Mimi. Years ago, folks

>called it " sugar diabetes " and many thought that good control was just a

>matter of avoiding sugar. And that became much easier with the advent of

>artificial sweeteners, the latest and best being Splenda. But with more

>widespread testing in recent years and more accurate home meters, folks

>soon

>learned that all carbohydrates had the capacity to raise our glucose

>levels,

>to a greater or lesser degree. So the ADA, instead of recommend that we be

>careful about all carbohydrate intake, wants to make itself popular with

>diabetics and tells us that essentially we can live like and eat like

>everyone else! They even feature very high-carb recipes in their consumer

>magazine (which, not surprisingly, is over half commercial ads). Their

>message is - eat everything you like. Don't deprive yourself. And all you

>have to do is spend spend spend on all these test strips and insulin and

>pills and fancy gizmos offered in the pages of our magazine! It's just so

>much easier to watch our carbohydrate intake than that other approach that

>we get sort of steamed about this issue. That Wilford Brimley diabetes ad?

>All he says is, " Test test test ... then test some more! " When that ad

>comes

>on, I yell at it: " Spend spend spend ... then spend some more! " Some of us

>don't have medical insurance and aren't made of money. If for no other

>reason than cost, I wish the ADA would take a different approach. But then

>only diabetics would benefit ... not Eli Lilly and the drug manufacturers

>and test strip marketers. When they did the UKPDS and the DCCT, they didn't

>focus on diet at all. The subjects were eating basically the Food Pyramid,

>which contains approx. 300 grams of carbohydrates, including

>highly-processed grains (wheat flour is roughly 80% carbs) which are the

>most problemmatic foods for many of us with ailing pancreases.

>

>It seems to take an intake of only 20-40 grams of carbs in order for many

>people to get into benign dietary ketosis (optimal fat-burning mode). I eat

>more like 100 grams, focusing on salads and the less carby among the

>vegetables, such as green beans, cauliflower and broccoli, as well as

>endless salads. I eat my veggies raw when possible, or just lightly

>steamed.

>Oriental stir fry is an excellent food choice for people with glucose

>problems. I choose low-fat cheeses and the leanest cuts of meat.

>

>Susie

>

>

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[Guest guest]

E Levy wrote:

> your

> fears from your experience are your own, and need not be the guide for

> every diabetic.

And doctors in the know also know that this classification of drugs is

harmful to the pancreas.

> I was my own doctor, in spite of a lack oftotal knowledge, I managed to

> find my own way out.

Read your own words here... " lack of total knowledge " ... yes, your numbers

came down, and at the expense of what? Maybe you got lucky, but many many

others who were treated longterm (1 or more years) with this classification

of drugs are on insulin today.

> So what I write is for the mainstream diabetic that can control by diet,

> and has no special conditions like pregnancy or use of cortisone.

But you advocate the use of a dangerous drug in order to get there. And how

do you know that these people can control by diet? Because they told you?

Did you ask about the use of cortisone? How about other health factors? Each

one of us does our own doctoring to a certain extent, and we can certainly

share our experiences with others, but each of our ways may or may not be

the way for others. And to imply (strongly) that your way is the only way to

people who apparently have no other resources (your words), is controlling,

and you are playing doctor.

[Guest guest]

Ahhh, my life is full of good news this weekend! *grin

Auto-immune disorders. Fantastic.

Thanks for the tip, susie!

Mimi

>

>Reply-To: diabetes_integroups

>To: <diabetes_integroups>

>Subject: Re: Re: What could have.....

>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 11:00:11 -0700

>

>Mimi Dionne, inventor of the world-famous Dionne Udder Cream (just kidding

>... a coincidence though, since we're discussing it in the group), wrote:

>

><< I also have mono at the moment, so my sugars are running high. >>

>

>I wanted to alert you that there is some thinking that exposure to mono

>(infectious mononucleosis is suspected of triggering rheumatoid arthritis

>and perhaps other autoimmune disorders. You might want to be on the alert

>over the next 10-15 years for early signs of impending trouble. (Most

>people

>are in fact exposed to mono early in life and never even realize it. But

>they have the antibodies, indicating exposure.)

>

>Susie

>

>

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/13/2000 8:19:05 AM Eastern Standard Time,

meniowl@... writes:

> And if it turns out that you are correct, instead of eating crow, I will

> just

> have to have more prime rib!! = )

>

LOL!!!! no, you won't eat crow, but you might have some dm complication, but

maybe not, depends if you have the dm complication gene, oh yes!!! that's

another issue, LOL!!! :-)

carol

[Guest guest]

<< I felt that one pill a day that gave great sugars was an improvement over

4 meter readings a day,

record books and shot adjustments. >>

Sam, you are still unwilling to accept studies showing that sulfonylreas

kill pancreas beta cells, cause weight gain (so therefore increase insulin

resistance), and have actually killed diabetics, via heart attack, stroke,

and deadly hypos.

<< For me medication served as a bridge to dietary control. >>

You admit that you eat fruit and potatoes because you like them - not

because they're good for diabetics. Carbohydrates are like poison to

diabetics. You acknowledge this by eating them in tiny portions, throughout

the day. I don't want anyone misleading others into thinking these foods are

actually good for a diabetic. You have lived with this disease a long time.

But you also have accumulated numerous diabetes complications, proving that

your approach to diabetes is clearly less than ideal.

Susie