Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 Yes, I was a vegetarian for many years and had gallbladder attacks. Deborah The NL Come visit us @ http://birdchild.com or eMail me at deb@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 At 20:50 15.01.2002 +0000, you wrote: >OK...I guess it's time to ask the question. I'm not here because I >have a gall bladder problem. I'm here because my 19 year old daughter >who eats too much dairy and decided to start eating meat a couple >of years ago came down with a gall bladder attack. I want to ask the >group: are there any vegetarians here who have had a gall bladder >attack? I mean vegans, I guess, as dairy has been shown to be a cause >of gall bladder problems. Does any one here know of a vegan who has >had a gall bladder attack? I don't. Eulypian, I have read about many vegans and vegetarians who actually developed symptomatic gallstones while pregnant. Most woman develope gallstones pain or attack while pregnant or after childbirth. Weight loss/gain is No 1 risk factor for symptomatic gallstones. Not strange, usually, weight loss is caused by low fat diet. Low fat is bad for liver and gallbladder. But, having symptomatic gallstones is smallest problem. Asymptomatic liver stones are much more common problem. Asymptomatic liver stones are extremely common between people practicing low fat diets, and many people on vegan diet, vegetarian diet, macrobiotic diet are in reality on low fat diet. Most people go on veg diets after being on common western diet. That dieattery change is very often connected with weight loss and development of liver stones. The biggest stones expelled have very often been at people who have been on Macrobiotic diet for long time. To Barry: I read your theory about expelling gallstones with fatty meal. Probably that is how ot works for healthy people (people who can toilerate all kind of food ) or maybe they never build gallstones There are many people who can't expell stones with fatty meal only. Many people who can't dissolve stones by taking 1 - 3 tbsp of olive oil daily. Many people who actually need flush to get stones out. Why ? Wny are liver stones and gallstones so common today, but were rare in the past? Diet is only one of the factors. Very important are other possible factors like: - level of physical activity - far lower today then it was in the past (this one is pobably the most common and the most important) - vaccination that may damage liver ( did not exist in the past) - Mercury - amalgam fillings ( did not exist in the past) - Root canal - fillings ( did not exist in the past) - nickel and other crowns ( did not exist in the past) - different Environmental toxins ( rare in the past) - lack of common childhood illness (due to vaccination) - for thousands of years generations of people have been going through common cildhood illness. In the last 20-50 years, that have been significantly changed) - consequences of this change are enormous. - antibiotics and other patented drugs ( did not exist in the past) - unnatural living lifestyle ( rare in the past) - exposure to chlorine (water, PCB) , cosmeticts, detergents, GM foods,... Each and every of those factors have little in common with meat eating. Regards Agnes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 Well, I can easily see where you are coming from. I have been continually accused of bashing when I haven't been. There is only one sin that I know of and that is hypocracy, and I haven't accused anyone of that here that I know of. >> ________________ Hello, Well, I hate to say it but you have been bashing people. Maybe you haven't meant to, but you have done it by your little innuendos. Those of us who are meat-eaters and those of us who observe the Scriptures, have just as much right as do vegetarians and those who are unbelievers to state what we believe. People who observe the Scriptures have been told that they can't discuss them and have to change their life in order to accommodate the unbelievers. Is this fair? No!!!! Many who follow the scriptures know that they aren't perfect and are sinners, which puts them a ways off from being a hypocrite. A " hypocrite " is someone that is doing something like stealing, for example, and is teaching others that it's wrong. But how can you be a hypocrite if you're teaching it's wrong and not doing it? About vegetarians getting gallstones or not getting gallstones, I have no idea. Since I'm not a vegetarian, then I can't truthfully answer you on this subject. BTW, I have a 19-year-old daughter who eats meat. I don't force her to eat it or not eat it. That is her choice. Susie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 In a message dated 1/16/02 4:56:56 PM, eulypian@... writes: << Does anyone know of a vegan who has had a gall bladder attack? >> To tell you the truth I don't know any vegans. Why don't you get on a vegan list and ask if anybody has had gallbladder problems. If you do get on one of the lists be sure to tell us what you find out because it would definitely be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 Why don't you get on a vegan list and ask if anybody has had gallbladder problems. If you do get on one of the lists be sure to tell us what you find out because it would definitely be interesting. >> _______________ I agree. We'd all like to know one way or the other. However, it'd be my guess that if a person doesn't drink enough water, that is a huge gallstone builder-upper. Dr. Cabot says gallstones are formed more in people who don't drink enough water. And my daughter who eats meat, she eats mostly chicken, some fish. She doesn't like much beef at all. However, even as Dr. Cabot says, there's not much difference between beef and chicken healthwise. And knowing young people, many can say they drink enough water, but do they? My daughter says that she does, but I know from watching her that she doesn't consume enough throughout the day. Sipping on it throughout the day is the key! Susie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 < Also, I'm thinking that maybe vegans have a less stressful lifestyle that may account for less problems like that...just throwing ideas around and seeing where they land. ____________________ Well, on the flip side of the coin, McCartney died of breast cancer. She was an avid vegetarian. She's just an example off the top of my head. Susie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 Agnes, Thank you for this list of factors that contribute to gallbladder/liver stones. My question is - how fast do you think stones would form and cause problems after a vaccine or after placement of an amalgam filling? ----- Original Message ----- From: " Agnes " <agnes@...> <gallstones > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 3:07 AM Subject: Re: Re: Meat eating > At 20:50 15.01.2002 +0000, you wrote: > >OK...I guess it's time to ask the question. I'm not here because I > >have a gall bladder problem. I'm here because my 19 year old daughter > >who eats too much dairy and decided to start eating meat a couple > >of years ago came down with a gall bladder attack. I want to ask the > >group: are there any vegetarians here who have had a gall bladder > >attack? I mean vegans, I guess, as dairy has been shown to be a cause > >of gall bladder problems. Does any one here know of a vegan who has > >had a gall bladder attack? I don't. > > Eulypian, > > I have read about many vegans and vegetarians who actually developed > symptomatic gallstones while pregnant. > Most woman develope gallstones pain or attack while pregnant or after > childbirth. > > Weight loss/gain is No 1 risk factor for symptomatic gallstones. > > Not strange, usually, weight loss is caused by low fat diet. Low fat is bad > for liver and gallbladder. > > But, having symptomatic gallstones is smallest problem. > Asymptomatic liver stones are much more common problem. > > Asymptomatic liver stones are extremely common between people practicing > low fat diets, and many people on vegan diet, vegetarian diet, macrobiotic > diet are in reality on low fat diet. > > Most people go on veg diets after being on common western diet. > That dieattery change is very often connected with weight loss and > development of liver stones. > > The biggest stones expelled have very often been at people who have been on > Macrobiotic diet for long time. > > To Barry: I read your theory about expelling gallstones with fatty meal. > Probably that is how ot works for healthy people (people who can toilerate > all kind of food ) or maybe they never build gallstones > > There are many people who can't expell stones with fatty meal only. > Many people who can't dissolve stones by taking 1 - 3 tbsp of olive oil daily. > Many people who actually need flush to get stones out. > Why ? > > > Wny are liver stones and gallstones so common today, but were rare in the past? > > > Diet is only one of the factors. > > Very important are other possible factors like: > > - level of physical activity - far lower today then it was in the past > (this one is pobably the most common and the most important) > > - vaccination that may damage liver ( did not exist in the past) > > - Mercury - amalgam fillings ( did not exist in the past) > - Root canal - fillings ( did not exist in the past) > - nickel and other crowns ( did not exist in the past) > - different Environmental toxins ( rare in the past) > > - lack of common childhood illness (due to vaccination) - for thousands of > years generations of people have been going through common cildhood > illness. In the last 20-50 years, that have been significantly changed) - > consequences of this change are enormous. > > - antibiotics and other patented drugs ( did not exist in the past) > > - unnatural living lifestyle ( rare in the past) > > - exposure to chlorine (water, PCB) , cosmeticts, detergents, GM foods,... > > > > Each and every of those factors have little in common with meat eating. > > Regards > Agnes > > > > > > > > > Learn more from our experience, more then 200 liver flush stories: > http:///messages/gallstones-testimonials > > Liver Cleanse Recipe: > http://www.CureZone.com/cleanse/liver/ > > Images: > http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/cleanse_flush/ > http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/intrahepatic_stones/ > > Post message: gallstones > Receive no-mail: gallstones-nomail > Subscribe: gallstones-subscribe > Unsubscribe: gallstones-unsubscribe > > Web Sites for more information: > http://CureZone.com/gallstones/ > http://www.liverdoctor.com/ > http://www.sensiblehealth.com/ > http://www.cyberpog.com/health/index.htm > http://www.relfe.com/gall_stone_cleanse.html > > Group page: gallstones > > To change your subscription to digest (receive up to 25 e-mails in just one single e-mail, once a day) send blank e-mail to: gallstones-digest > > To change your subscription to NO-MAIL send blank e-mail to: gallstones-nomail > > To change your subscription to NORMAL (receive each message separate) > send blank e-mail to: gallstones-normal > > You are receiving this email because you elected to subscribe to the Gallstones group on 's groups. By joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself! > Have a nice day ! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2002 Report Share Posted January 16, 2002 << Also, I'm thinking that maybe vegans have a less stressful lifestyle that may account for less problems like that...just throwing ideas around and seeing where they land. >> HUH? What does what you eat have anything to do with your lifestyle being stressful or not? Unless you're a hippie type sitting around all day not working and nibbling on fancy veggie dishes I guess you wouldn't have much stress, but in the real world what you eat has nothing to do with your lifestyle stresses. Please clarify. That's a real strange statement! By the way, I have no gallbladder problems. Just came onto this list to learn about this organ being my age and wanting to be sure I do what I can to prevent future problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2002 Report Share Posted January 17, 2002 Well, I can easily see where you are coming from. I have been continually accused of bashing when I haven't been. There is only one sin that I know of and that is hypocracy, and I haven't accused anyone of that here that I know of. I think your fear has you being quite defensive and imagining things that I'm not saying. As I said, most of my FRIENDS eat meat. (And they get sick much more than the ones who don't.) They wouldn't be my friends long if I hassled them about it, so maybe that will give you a bigger picture to see where I'm coming from. My whole family eats meat except me. I have three children and a wife who eat meat. I have read every post in this site since I arrived, looking for as much information as possible to pass on to my daughter and anyone else who is interested, as well as for my own education. I greatly appreciate the work of Agnes and others who stick to the subject. Fortunately 90% of the information that I've found here is information I've already gotten elsewhere, and is a great confirmation of that information. The other 10% is why I'm here. The personal testimonials are worth much more than what can be found in literature. I have allowed my daughter the freedom to eat what she wants. She definitely has to listen to me tell her what I know about what she is eating, but once I've said it, I don't need to tell her again and again, or " I told you so " when health problems occur. (Do you do that to your children??? I love mine!) She is very wise and will find out what her body needs on her own. I gave her this site when I first found it, and she is checking in occasionally...definitely not enough, but at least it is available when she wants to find out more information. She did her first major flush two nights ago..the version, and found 40-50 stones in her stool. Hooray. Personally I think her gallbladder attack was triggered by the vaccination she took to get into college, and posts in this group have confirmed that to be a possibility. That is another reason why I am here. Mainly, now that I've gotten most of what I wanted to know here for her, I am now asking if vegans have gall bladder problems. Is there a problem with that? I think that's a very relevant question for this group. Does anyone know of a vegan who has had a gall bladder attack? I think your reaction shows a fear that maybe there aren't any...? > Maybe vegitarians have had problems but haven't found this site yet. > > This site is for people to find relief from GB attacks and how to > cleanse the liver and GB instead of opting for surgery. > > Are you here to find out information for your daughter or are you > only here to put people down who have GB pain and are not vegitarians? > Do you want to use this info to bash your daughter for starting to > eat meats? Why are you really here? Are you looking for relief of > some sort? Maybe you should direct your daughter here so that she can > get help instead of talking about not eating any meats. We are here > to support and help those who want it, not for those to use this as a > debate whether being a vegitarian is good, bad, sinful, etc,etc. > > You say you are here because of your daughter's GB problem but then > instead of asking how to help her, you keep harping on about this > vegitarian issue. Sounds to me like you want to get more info to > support your cause and tell your daughter, 'See I told you so'. > Why would you tell us about being here because of your daughter and > then the question you ask is not for her benefit but just wether > anyone knows of any vegitarian with stones? What are you getting at > really? > Do you want to help your daughter heal her body with cleansing or are > you only looking for support to be vegitarian? > > I just don't get where you're coming from. Does anyone? > > Barry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2002 Report Share Posted January 17, 2002 Did you eat dairy products as a vegetarian? That's why I was asking if vegans (who don't eat any animal products) had had them. My daughter doesn't eat very much meat..mainly chicken, and only once a month or so...so she's mainly a vegetarian most of the time, but she does eat lots of dairy. So I was wondering if no dairy or meat made a difference. > Yes, I was a vegetarian for many years and had gallbladder attacks. > > Deborah > The NL > > Come visit us @ http://birdchild.com > or > eMail me at deb@b... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2002 Report Share Posted January 17, 2002 Thank you very much! This is what I wanted to know. You're the best! > >OK...I guess it's time to ask the question. I'm not here because I > >have a gall bladder problem. I'm here because my 19 year old daughter > >who eats too much dairy and decided to start eating meat a couple > >of years ago came down with a gall bladder attack. I want to ask the > >group: are there any vegetarians here who have had a gall bladder > >attack? I mean vegans, I guess, as dairy has been shown to be a cause > >of gall bladder problems. Does any one here know of a vegan who has > >had a gall bladder attack? I don't. > > Eulypian, > > I have read about many vegans and vegetarians who actually developed > symptomatic gallstones while pregnant. > Most woman develope gallstones pain or attack while pregnant or after > childbirth. > > Weight loss/gain is No 1 risk factor for symptomatic gallstones. > > Not strange, usually, weight loss is caused by low fat diet. Low fat is bad > for liver and gallbladder. > > But, having symptomatic gallstones is smallest problem. > Asymptomatic liver stones are much more common problem. > > Asymptomatic liver stones are extremely common between people practicing > low fat diets, and many people on vegan diet, vegetarian diet, macrobiotic > diet are in reality on low fat diet. > > Most people go on veg diets after being on common western diet. > That dieattery change is very often connected with weight loss and > development of liver stones. > > The biggest stones expelled have very often been at people who have been on > Macrobiotic diet for long time. > > To Barry: I read your theory about expelling gallstones with fatty meal. > Probably that is how ot works for healthy people (people who can toilerate > all kind of food ) or maybe they never build gallstones > > There are many people who can't expell stones with fatty meal only. > Many people who can't dissolve stones by taking 1 - 3 tbsp of olive oil daily. > Many people who actually need flush to get stones out. > Why ? > > > Wny are liver stones and gallstones so common today, but were rare in the past? > > > Diet is only one of the factors. > > Very important are other possible factors like: > > - level of physical activity - far lower today then it was in the past > (this one is pobably the most common and the most important) > > - vaccination that may damage liver ( did not exist in the past) > > - Mercury - amalgam fillings ( did not exist in the past) > - Root canal - fillings ( did not exist in the past) > - nickel and other crowns ( did not exist in the past) > - different Environmental toxins ( rare in the past) > > - lack of common childhood illness (due to vaccination) - for thousands of > years generations of people have been going through common cildhood > illness. In the last 20-50 years, that have been significantly changed) - > consequences of this change are enormous. > > - antibiotics and other patented drugs ( did not exist in the past) > > - unnatural living lifestyle ( rare in the past) > > - exposure to chlorine (water, PCB) , cosmeticts, detergents, GM foods,... > > > > Each and every of those factors have little in common with meat eating. > > Regards > Agnes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2002 Report Share Posted January 17, 2002 Done. That's an excellent idea! Thanks! I'll get back to you. I mainly was asking here because I figured once you've had a gall bladder problem, you end up finding out about other folks' gall bladders, and maybe some know of some vegan problems. I liked Agnes' reply, and truely believe that none of us are immune to this problem, but I still want more personal testimonies to go with the statistics. Also, I'm thinking that maybe vegans have a less stressful lifestyle that may account for less problems like that...just throwing ideas around and seeing where they land. Thanks again for the inspiration to join a bunch of vegan groups! > > In a message dated 1/16/02 4:56:56 PM, eulypian@y... writes: > > << Does anyone know of a vegan who has had a gall bladder attack? > >> > > To tell you the truth I don't know any vegans. Why don't you get on a vegan > list and ask if anybody has had gallbladder problems. If you do get on one of > the lists be sure to tell us what you find out because it would definitely be > interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2002 Report Share Posted January 17, 2002 Yes, there are many vegans who have had attacks. Check 'Debs' post today. Also, Agnes had some good advice about attacks or stones coming from other reasons than food intake. Check it out. Good luck. Also, blasphamy is considered a sin too isn't it? Also, I don't get defensive out of 'fear' but usually when I am faced with someone in ignorance or denial. Happy Health. Barry. > > Maybe vegitarians have had problems but haven't found this site yet. > > > > This site is for people to find relief from GB attacks and how to > > cleanse the liver and GB instead of opting for surgery. > > > > Are you here to find out information for your daughter or are you > > only here to put people down who have GB pain and are not > vegitarians? > > Do you want to use this info to bash your daughter for starting to > > eat meats? Why are you really here? Are you looking for relief of > > some sort? Maybe you should direct your daughter here so that she > can > > get help instead of talking about not eating any meats. We are here > > to support and help those who want it, not for those to use this as > a > > debate whether being a vegitarian is good, bad, sinful, etc,etc. > > > > You say you are here because of your daughter's GB problem but then > > instead of asking how to help her, you keep harping on about this > > vegitarian issue. Sounds to me like you want to get more info to > > support your cause and tell your daughter, 'See I told you so'. > > Why would you tell us about being here because of your daughter and > > then the question you ask is not for her benefit but just wether > > anyone knows of any vegitarian with stones? What are you getting at > > really? > > Do you want to help your daughter heal her body with cleansing or > are > > you only looking for support to be vegitarian? > > > > I just don't get where you're coming from. Does anyone? > > > > Barry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2002 Report Share Posted January 17, 2002 It takes much more energy to digest animal products than it does vegetables. So there is a form of stress from eating animal products. >> __________________ eulypian, maybe you're brainwashed, you think? Are we still harping on eating no meat? A person who has absolutely no stress is very, very unhealthy. Everyone needs some stress to give them get up and go to carry out normal tasks. Personally, whatever athlets eat is their business. They may have to eat a certain way to get a " charge " from carbs. But I'm not an athlet and don't pretend to be. I love meat! I love veggies! I eat both of them and I'm happy! They both compliment each other. Susie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2002 Report Share Posted January 17, 2002 It takes much more energy to digest animal products than it does vegetables. So there is a form of stress from eating animal products. There is alot of info out there on the use of a vegetarian diet by olympic athletes trying to work on the stress levels. Check around. > << > Also, I'm thinking that maybe vegans have a less stressful lifestyle > that may account for less problems like that...just throwing ideas > around and seeing where they land. > >> > HUH? What does what you eat have anything to do with your lifestyle being > stressful or not? Unless you're a hippie type sitting around all day not > working and nibbling on fancy veggie dishes I guess you wouldn't have much > stress, but in the real world what you eat has nothing to do with your > lifestyle stresses. Please clarify. That's a real strange statement! By > the way, I have no gallbladder problems. Just came onto this list to learn > about this organ being my age and wanting to be sure I do what I can to > prevent future problems. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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