Re: Human body can't hold 100's..Debra...

February 5, 2002

Thanks Debra for your story. You've 'made your intentions known' so

to speak. I was wondering something after reading your gb removal

success story. By the way, it is great to hear that you have no

problems and are doing great without this vital digestive organ. If

you feel lucky or not it is good to hear you are doing fine.

What I was wondering about was that you've said you've never tried a

cleanse yet you were on here for one year before you decided to opt

for the removal. Why didn't you at least try a few cleanses to see if

to would work for you and then maybe even avoid the sugery?

Thanks.

Barry.

>

> >>I'm just curious, you don't have to answer of

> course, but why are you in a " Gallstones cleanse " group if you

aren't

> currently suffering from some kind of gb problem?<<

>

> Barry,

>

> I don't mind answering at all. (My apologies to those of you who

have

> already heard this. Delete now.

>

> Actually, I was on this list for at least a year I think before I

had my

> gallbladder removed, and gathered a lot of useful information and

support.

> I also heard a lots of " I know someone who...... " horror stories

about

> surgery. I was terrified of surgery, not only because of the

stories, so I

> am not blaming my fear on being a member of this group. When I got

to the

> point where I actually started considering surgery, because I was

taking

> Percoset every other day, I started talking to a lot of people I

know, and

> everyone I talked to who had surgery was fine. I have one friend

who had

> emergency surgery (collapsed at work) who has occasional minor pain

that she

> doesn't know the cause of. My experience was remarkably easy. The

few days

> of pain after surgery were nothing compared to the gallbladder

attacks.

> Now, the reason I stayed on the list.....

>

> I felt so good after surgery, but it seemed as if a lot of people

didn't

> want to hear that. (Not all.) Where I had found support while

suffering, I

> felt resentment when I was feeling good. I stayed on-list not to

convince

> ANYONE that I had made a superior choice, but rather to be of

support to

> those few people who, like myself, end up having surgery. If

someone has

> surgery scheduled, I tell them to feel free to e-mail me privately

if they

> have any questions, and they usually do. I don't want to take up

list time

> with that conversation. Also, I want to encourage anyone who is

undergoing

> surgery to insist upon a cholangiogram, to make sure no stones are

left in

> the bile duct. I NEVER respond to anyone who says, " My doctor told

me I need

> surgery, but I am glad to have found a place where I can learn

about keeping

> my gallbladder. " Or something like that. I only offer support to

those who

> feel that decision is eminent, and even those I remind that their

situation

> is probably not life-threatening, and that I am not advising them

that this

> should be their choice or not, just answering thier questions. I

guess I am

> here to provide a little balance to the " Ohgod, don't have

surgery. You'll

> still be in pain and never digest anything properly again "

mindset. That

> does not seem to be the mindset of the majority of people here,

most would

> just prefer not to have surgery because they feel it is unnecessary

and they

> want to hold on to their organs. Good for them, what they are

doing is

> positive.

>

> Sometimes I get involved in the " all doctors are evil-money

grubbing,

> spawns of satan " conversations, because I don't feel that way, and

I don't

> think all people here do either. I have a feeling that if most

people here

> had a seriously sick child, they would appreciate some medical

expertise,

> which they could decide to agree with or not, but that's another

> conversation.

>

> Anyway, hope I answered your question. I support all your efforts

for

> optimal health. And no.....I am not a paid troll, as I have been

accused of

> by at least one person. (lol)

>

> Debra

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:

http://mobile.msn.com

February 5, 2002

>>Why didn't you at least try a few cleanses to see if

to would work for you and then maybe even avoid the sugery? <<

It was just something I was not personally comfortable with. I had concerns

about stuff getting caugh in the bile duct, and I had doubts as to whether

they are actually stones that come out or not. (Mainly because I just don't

believe that there can be that many stones in one organ. I had about four

in mine, none in the bile duct or liver, as proven by the cholangiogram.) I

still do, but I am not looking to start up that debate or convince anyone of

anything, just stating my thoughts. I did use two holistic products,

colinsonia root, and something else that I can not remember the name of,

which I got from my chiropractor, whom I trust immensely. He assured me

that these would cleanse my gallbladder of any stones. I made major dietary

changes, eliminating ALL dairy, adding olive oil and flaxseed oil to my

daily diet. I started drinking three liters of water a day. (Still do, love

the stuff.) And I was exercising on an almost daily basis. For a long

time, this all seemed to help. I would only have every six months or so,

but in the months proceding surgery, they became more and more frequent,

until I could expect one every other night. My kids were asking me to

please have surgery. My pain would be gone in the morning, but it would

take me all day to recover from the Percoset, and I would try to only take a

half of one, or one whole one if it was just too intense. The surgeon told

my fiance after surgery that it wasn't just a matter of stones, but that my

gallbladder itself was pretty sick. It was amazing how as soon as it was

out, I could eat absolutely anything. For me, it was the right choice, but

believe me, I understand the desire to avoid surgery at all costs, and

support it. In most cases it is not an immediately life threatening

condition, so why not take the time to see if something else works. I did.

I respect the fact that people take control of some of their own health care

and education. I'm glad for people's success in keeping their gallbladders,

I just want to make sure that people who end up having surgery, don't feel

like they are some kind of failure. However, again I state, that I never

promote it as a first or best option. I would only do that if maybe,

someone had a high fever and jaundice.

Barry, I don't know if you were on the list when I mentioned this before,

but I didn't even have my 3 kids in a hospital, or with a doctor present, so

please don't think I am too quick to turn my healthcare over to a physician.

However, when my firstborns bilirubin level spiked to a very high level, I

was very glad that there were doctors around. He had a urinary tract

infection, and his liver was not developed enough to handle it. Had his

bili level gone any higher, he would have needed a total exchange blood

transfusion. I-V fluids and antibiotics were administered, and literally

saved his life. Had he been born at a hospital, the infection would not

have been noted any sooner, because it was not until his bili level spiked

that we knew he was sick, and I had his level checked each day. It wasn't

until he was 3 days old that he started looking like a pumpkin. If not for

trained doctors, my son would have died.

Debra

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February 5, 2002

Also you have stated that you don't believe people can have hundreds

of stones as have been described in this group and also on the

curezone web site. >>

______________

Hi, Barry,

I'm a firm believer that what we pass is something that we surely don't need.

I'm also positive that many must come out of the GB since after a cleanse

I'm in better health. Then I must think about my friend, Ron's, little

mother who did this for well over 20 years and still had her GB when she died

at 97. Previously she had GB disease and started cleansing. Her death was

unrelated to GB problems.

Also, those have have had their GB removed for whatever reason, benefit from

these cleanses. It cleans out the stones in their liver. One lady that used

to post on here named Jane, I think from England or somewhere like that, she

started having like GB attacks about 12 years after her GB removal, I think

it was. She started doing the cleansing and passed a bunch of stones.

Susie

February 5, 2002

Debra,

Thanks for your explanation but the fact of the matter is that you

didn't try a liver/gb cleanse as posted in this group. The

alterantive to keeping your gb which you say you've tried is nothing

about what we in this group are doing with the gb cleanses with olive

oil, etc.

Also you have stated that you don't believe people can have hundreds

of stones as have been described in this group and also on the

curezone web site. You are actually a non-believer of these results

being stones and people claiming they are. We who have flushed

hundreds of stones out are fully convinced they are 'real' stones

because mainly our gb pain attacks have stopped. Also, Agnes has

given us many reasons to believe they are 'really' stones.

I don't think anyone here is against doctors per say but we are firm

believers that hundreds of stones form in the liver and can be

flushes with proper alternative procedures.

I guess I'm still a little confused about why you frequent a

Gallbladder 'cleanse' group if it is only to give support to people

who want to have surgery. I really do hope that you can get something

out of our testimonies and maybe begin to believe that what we are

doing is real.

You said you weren't 'personally comfortable' with doing gallbladder

cleansing but you must be curious about the success of the

testimonies because you still enjoy frequenting this group. I wish

you would have given it a change to work because maybe you would have

been as happy and successful as those of us who did.

The 4 gb stones that were found in your gb were most likely

the 'problem stones'. The type that are harder, calcified, and show

up on ultrasound. The hundreds that people are getting out are of the

softer, liver, cholesterol stones most likely found in the liver bile

ducts that lead out into the common duct. This has been my experience

after flushing more than 1,000 of these stones out of my liver. They

are always being produced in the largest organ in your body, your

liver, and can very well fit inside the hundreds of bile ducts within

the liver. This is the stones that I believe most people are talking

about when describing hundreds of stones eliminating in a cleanse. Gb

stones are another issue. They are harder to eliminate and may need

several flushes. My sketicism as well has caused me to dig deeper

into the matter of liver stones vs. gb stones. They are different in

number and different to cleanse out.

I hope you can understand the conclusions I have come to because I've

also had questions but the information is clearly explained. The

stones are real but you need to understand that they are more liver

based than gb based. Most people in here also need to understand that

as well. But my faith in the whole process is mainly because of my

personal results. I feel great and the pain has stopped.

I hope you can at least believe us who have had success. And I really

do wish you had given it a try (the cleanse with oil I mean) and had

been able to restore your vital digestive organ back to proper

working order instead of having to give it up. Faith is really needed

for this I guess.

I agree with you on your condition. If your gb is diseased beyond

repair, then even cleansing won't restore it, you should definitely

have it taken out to avoid other problems besides pain. Things like

cancer, etc.

Good luck in your search for better health.

Barry.

>

> >>Why didn't you at least try a few cleanses to see if

> to would work for you and then maybe even avoid the sugery? <<

>

> It was just something I was not personally comfortable with. I had

concerns

> about stuff getting caugh in the bile duct, and I had doubts as to

whether

> they are actually stones that come out or not. (Mainly because I

just don't

> believe that there can be that many stones in one organ. I had

about four

> in mine, none in the bile duct or liver, as proven by the

cholangiogram.) I

> still do, but I am not looking to start up that debate or convince

anyone of

> anything, just stating my thoughts. I did use two holistic

products,

> colinsonia root, and something else that I can not remember the

name of,

> which I got from my chiropractor, whom I trust immensely. He

assured me

> that these would cleanse my gallbladder of any stones. I made

major dietary

> changes, eliminating ALL dairy, adding olive oil and flaxseed oil

to my

> daily diet. I started drinking three liters of water a day. (Still

do, love

> the stuff.) And I was exercising on an almost daily basis. For a

long

> time, this all seemed to help. I would only have every six months

or so,

> but in the months proceding surgery, they became more and more

frequent,

> until I could expect one every other night. My kids were asking me

to

> please have surgery. My pain would be gone in the morning, but it

would

> take me all day to recover from the Percoset, and I would try to

only take a

> half of one, or one whole one if it was just too intense. The

surgeon told

> my fiance after surgery that it wasn't just a matter of stones, but

that my

> gallbladder itself was pretty sick. It was amazing how as soon as

it was

> out, I could eat absolutely anything. For me, it was the right

choice, but

> believe me, I understand the desire to avoid surgery at all costs,

and

> support it. In most cases it is not an immediately life

threatening

> condition, so why not take the time to see if something else

works. I did.

> I respect the fact that people take control of some of their own

health care

> and education. I'm glad for people's success in keeping their

gallbladders,

> I just want to make sure that people who end up having surgery,

don't feel

> like they are some kind of failure. However, again I state, that I

never

> promote it as a first or best option. I would only do that if

maybe,

> someone had a high fever and jaundice.

>

> Barry, I don't know if you were on the list when I mentioned this

before,

> but I didn't even have my 3 kids in a hospital, or with a doctor

present, so

> please don't think I am too quick to turn my healthcare over to a

physician.

> However, when my firstborns bilirubin level spiked to a very high

level, I

> was very glad that there were doctors around. He had a urinary

tract

> infection, and his liver was not developed enough to handle it.

Had his

> bili level gone any higher, he would have needed a total exchange

blood

> transfusion. I-V fluids and antibiotics were administered, and

literally

> saved his life. Had he been born at a hospital, the infection

would not

> have been noted any sooner, because it was not until his bili level

spiked

> that we knew he was sick, and I had his level checked each day. It

wasn't

> until he was 3 days old that he started looking like a pumpkin. If

not for

> trained doctors, my son would have died.

>

> Debra

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at

http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

February 5, 2002

Yes , this is proof of a few things. First, the liver will

continue to clean your blood of toxins (even without the gb) and will

eliminate them through the common duct which is the liver function

anyway. These stones are produced in the liver ducts and can be in

the hundreds backing up inside the liver. This will explain why we

have hundreds of stones in a flush which obviously can't all be

stored in the small 'thumb-size' gallbladder. Some will rest there

but most will come out of the liver in a soft cholesterol form. The

body is doing this all of the time anyway. The ones that rest in the

gb become harder and bigger but the stones are first 'created' in the

liver and then roll down into the gb. So, after surgery, while the

body is still eliminating cholesterol and toxins in the liver, stones

may get stuck in the common duct on the way out. Dieting will slow

this down. Also licithin will help the bile to not thicken as much.

Barry.

> Also you have stated that you don't believe people can have

hundreds

> of stones as have been described in this group and also on the

> curezone web site. >>

> ______________

>

> Hi, Barry,

> I'm a firm believer that what we pass is something that we surely

don't need.

> I'm also positive that many must come out of the GB since after a

cleanse

> I'm in better health. Then I must think about my friend, Ron's,

little

> mother who did this for well over 20 years and still had her GB

when she died

> at 97. Previously she had GB disease and started cleansing. Her

death was

> unrelated to GB problems.

>

> Also, those have have had their GB removed for whatever reason,

benefit from

> these cleanses. It cleans out the stones in their liver. One lady

that used

> to post on here named Jane, I think from England or somewhere like

that, she

> started having like GB attacks about 12 years after her GB removal,

I think

> it was. She started doing the cleansing and passed a bunch of

stones.

> Susie

February 6, 2002

In a message dated 5/2/02 23:23:31 GMT Standard Time, barry91162@...

writes:

I am fairly new to this group, have never done a cleanse as yet, am very

sceptical as to the effectiveness of it but willing to try anything to get

rid of the pain that I occasionally get. I am not one of those who suffer

night and night but I do get an attack around every 6 months and I do suffer

big time with indigestion, another rotten symptom of gallstones. I know for

a fact that I have/had 1 'small' stone in my gallbladder from an ultrasound i

had last year. I am going to be doing the cleanse as soon as I possible can,

which will probably be early April (I am awaiting products from the USA that

I cannot get here to do a parasite/colon cleanse which I am lucky enough to

have acquaintances coming to the UK from Florida in late March and they will

bring the products for me saying me a fortune).

I promise now to tell you about the cleanse and what results I get, I will

not tell you I had hundreds of stones if I only have one, I will tell you

nothing but the truth. I have also told my husband that he has no choice in

the matter and he is going to be doing the cleanse as well. He suffers with

a very bad allergic rhinitis and I am hoping that by doing the cleanses, he

will get rid of that slowly but surely, again I will report on his cleanse,

although he has no symptoms whatsoever of having gallstones.

If you trust me/us to report honestly - I will be reporting back sometime in

April, although I wish that there was some other way because I have tried the

oil/grapefruit mix and it is totally disgusting.

nne

> You said you weren't 'personally comfortable' with doing gallbladder

> cleansing but you must be curious about the success of the

> testimonies because you still enjoy frequenting this group. I wish

> you would have given it a change to work because maybe you would have

> been as happy and successful as those of us who did.

>

February 6, 2002

Hi nne,

Just to let you know that I found a company in the UK who sells a range of

Dr es' products, including a parasite killer / colon cleanser (similair

to ia in USA). They're very helpful and I bought a 4 week treatment for

only £20 called Para X. If you want to have a look at their site, it's

http://www.selfhealth.co.uk

Good luck and good health,

Michele

-----Original Message-----

From: marianne2406@... [mailto:marianne2406@...]

Sent: Wednesday, 06 Feb 2002 8:31 am

gallstones

Subject: Re: Re: Human body can't hold 100's..Debra...

In a message dated 5/2/02 23:23:31 GMT Standard Time, barry91162@...

writes:

I am fairly new to this group, have never done a cleanse as yet, am very

sceptical as to the effectiveness of it but willing to try anything to get

rid of the pain that I occasionally get. I am not one of those who suffer

night and night but I do get an attack around every 6 months and I do

suffer

big time with indigestion, another rotten symptom of gallstones. I know

for

a fact that I have/had 1 'small' stone in my gallbladder from an

ultrasound i

had last year. I am going to be doing the cleanse as soon as I possible

can,

which will probably be early April (I am awaiting products from the USA

that

I cannot get here to do a parasite/colon cleanse which I am lucky enough

to

have acquaintances coming to the UK from Florida in late March and they

will

bring the products for me saying me a fortune).

I promise now to tell you about the cleanse and what results I get, I will

not tell you I had hundreds of stones if I only have one, I will tell you

nothing but the truth. I have also told my husband that he has no choice

in

the matter and he is going to be doing the cleanse as well. He suffers

with

a very bad allergic rhinitis and I am hoping that by doing the cleanses,

he

will get rid of that slowly but surely, again I will report on his

cleanse,

although he has no symptoms whatsoever of having gallstones.

If you trust me/us to report honestly - I will be reporting back sometime

in

April, although I wish that there was some other way because I have tried

the

oil/grapefruit mix and it is totally disgusting.

nne

> You said you weren't 'personally comfortable' with doing gallbladder

> cleansing but you must be curious about the success of the

> testimonies because you still enjoy frequenting this group. I wish

> you would have given it a change to work because maybe you would have

> been as happy and successful as those of us who did.

>

February 6, 2002

In a message dated 6/2/02 10:20:15 GMT Standard Time,

michele_vaudin@... writes:

Thank you Michele, I really do appreciate that - have you tried these

products and can you recommend them? I want to be sure that I am spending my

money on the right products, otherwise it is a false economy.

Thank you for thinking of me,

nne

> Hi nne,

>

> Just to let you know that I found a company in the UK who sells a range of

> Dr es' products, including a parasite killer / colon cleanser

> (similair

> to ia in USA). They're very helpful and I bought a 4 week treatment

> for

> only £20 called Para X. If you want to have a look at their site, it's

> http://www.selfhealth.co.uk

>

February 7, 2002

>>The

alterantive to keeping your gb which you say you've tried is nothing

about what we in this group are doing with the gb cleanses with olive

oil, etc.<<

You are wrong. There is much other useful information shared here about

diet, supplements, etc.

>>Also you have stated that you don't believe people can have hundreds

of stones as have been described in this group and also on the

curezone web site. You are actually a non-believer of these results

being stones and people claiming they are. We who have flushed

hundreds of stones out are fully convinced they are 'real' stones

because mainly our gb pain attacks have stopped. Also, Agnes has

given us many reasons to believe they are 'really' stones.<<

So what if I am skeptical? The people doing the flushes believe the

results. What I believe has absolutely no affect on them, their choices, or

their lives. Nor would I want it to. There is no reason one persons'

opinion should offend anyone.

>>I don't think anyone here is against doctors per say but we are firm

believers that hundreds of stones form in the liver and can be

flushes with proper alternative procedures. <<

That's fine. I believe that stones only form in the liver when there is a

significant blockage elsewhere, and the the bile sits there and crystalizes.

>>I guess I'm still a little confused about why you frequent a

Gallbladder 'cleanse' group if it is only to give support to people

who want to have surgery. I really do hope that you can get something

out of our testimonies and maybe begin to believe that what we are

doing is real. <<

I support everyone's choices here. I just have information for people who

eventually come to the choice of surgery which might be (and has been)

helpful to them. I don't really know why it matters to you what I believe.

It does not affect you or your beliefs. Choose what information makes sense

to you, and utilize it.

>>You said you weren't 'personally comfortable' with doing gallbladder

cleansing but you must be curious about the success of the

testimonies because you still enjoy frequenting this group. I wish

you would have given it a change to work because maybe you would have

been as happy and successful as those of us who did. <<

Actually, I don't read all of the posts, because I do not feel as if I have

anything helpful to add to the conversations. No, I am not curious. I feel

happy and successful. As I stated before, one of the things I try to do is

help people who end up having surgery realize that they are not failures,

that they just came to a different conclusion. You yourself, by that last

statement, obciously feel that those people are failures. I respect

people's choices.

>>The 4 gb stones that were found in your gb were most likely