Re: which side?..Dale..??

February 5, 2002

Thanks again Dale, but once again you have failed to address the

questions that I've asked. I realize and understand the logic of the

positions but what about the questions?....

Why do you think calcified stones are THAT much heavier to facilitate

a change in position? Aren't the calcified and cholesterol roughly

the same weight? Or not enough of a weight difference to have to

worry about position?

Why do the 'flush-writing doctors' use different positions without

explanation? One says right, the other back? I would think with all

the resulting experience that they must have that they could agree on

the best position and all use it as a guideline for the best way to

have a successful flush. This inaccuracy on position makes me

question their chosen position.

Can you please just try and answer these questions without getting

too anal? :-)

Here's why I'm asking. I do have a 1cm calcified stone seen by

ultrasound as a 'floating' stone. I'm guessing because it is white

and shows on ultrasound that it is a hard calcified stone. This

stones movements can be actually controlled by me. I know what to eat

and when it will move into the mouth of the gb to cause the pain. Now

that is real stone control (know your stone -).) It moves into 'pain

position' at around 2 or 3 am. I can move it back down in 5 to 10

minutes with an antispasmatic pill. My first flush passed a lot of

stones and made me feel great but when I rushed to the ultrasound the

next day it was still there. The second flush I laid on my right side

( for the logic reasons you've suggested ) and got bad results in

stone elimination. The floating stone didn't exit. 3rd flush I went

back to laying on back. 4th flush, right side. I just want to get the

right (best choice for success) position to get this one out. I

haven't been fully convinced by the logic of wieght and positioning

yet. The most logical seems to lay on back for both types of stones.

I want to know why the 'doctors' don't go into more detail if the

position is such an issue for the best results. Lack of their mention

makes me believe it doesn't matter yet the difference of their

position makes me now wonder which is best and why they aren't in

total agreement on the best position. More clarification needs to be

added for why they think right, left, or back is the best option for

success. This 'difference' in the cleanses makes me skeptical about

the harder to remove gb stone and their knowledge about dealing with

this harder issue vs. the easy liver, softer stones which exit easily

for me and in the hundreds.

Please answer my 'specific' questions if you can or anyone else who

can shed light on this matter.

Thanks,

Barry.

> <<<<Dale, You did attempt to answer my question before about this.

Was about

> a month ago. Do you remember? You never did answer two more of my

follow up

> questions. I agree with your logic but how about my questions, if

you

> will...

>

> Why do you think calcified stones are THAT much, or even IS,

heavier and

> requires a change of position for the best effect?sould not the back

> position facilitate the best results even if the cal. stones were

in fact

> 'alittle' heavier? Why doesn't the many 'flush-writing' doctors

agree on

> this topic of the flush, or why don't they mention the reasons?

>

> Hope you can answer with some more light on this subject.

> Thanks,

> Barry. >>>

>

> Barry;

>

> I really don't know that there is all that much of a desention in

the

> various doctors methods as to whether a person is to lay on their

back or

> one side. The fact of the matter is that stones that can float,

such as the

> cholesterol type, and will certainly be better enabled to get out

if they

> are in the right possition and there is some presure to be able to

push them

> out. They can, in some cases, set right at the neck of the

gallbladder and

> get out just by someone's laying on their back, as the neck of the

> gallbladder is still up. Laying on the right side just makes it

more up.

>

> If I were to get really anal about just exactly what angle one

should lay I

> would tell someone to pile their pillowd in such a way as to have

the body

> laying on an incline of approximatly 10 to 15 degrees and lay to

the right

> with at an incline of 60 to 80 degrees. This would be done so that

the neck

> of the gallbladder is vertually pointing at the ceiling. For

attempting to

> get out calcified stones I would then advise the opposing angles to

get the

> gallbladder's opening to the common bile duct to face directly at

the floor.

>

> If I were to continue in the anal aspect of advisement I would in

the case

> of a calcified stone note for someone to have a bed that also had a

fairly

> substantive vibrating system. This would be for the purpose of

helping the

> calcified stones move toward the neck of the gallbladder prior to

the taking

> of a concoction for presurizing the sack by getting it to convulse

while the

> stone is properly placed. Just imagine how relative to a stickyness

there is

> in the gallbladder regarding a calcified stone and you'll see what

I mean.

> If you've ever noted how hard it is for a marble to move in your

old marble

> sack at school you'll understand what I mean. Just imagine your

sack being

> full of a thick liquid too and getting the marble to the neck of

the sack in

> that case.

>

> However, this just isn't the most practical of things for anyone to

advise.

> So, laying on the back or right side will tend to place the stones

in a

> realative position to the neck of the gallbladder and then the

cholesterol

> type of stone will tend to get out. Calcifed stones are another

arena in

> which to work.

>

> Just consider why it is that most attacks occur at night time.

People are

> laying down and the stone(s) has had a chance to move to the right

possition

> while at the same time the person had eaten a meal that may have

been loaded

> with fats that need to be emulsified by bile. The stomach has

finished its

> job and now the food stuff has moved throurgh the duodenum into the

small

> intestiines and needs bile to emulsify the fats. So, the bile is

presurised

> by the spasm of the gallbladder and shot into the common bile duct

to be

> deposited in the small intestines with the conglamorated food

stuff. In the

> case of a person with gallstones a stone may also have found its

way into

> the common bile duct too. But now there may not be enough bile to

help move

> it along with the previous bile excreation but there is sill a

demand from

> the liver to provide more bile. Pressure builds behind the stone

and so does

> pain,,,, i.e. a gallbladder attack insues.

>

> So, without trying to get to technical I would say that laying down

is

> simply a good thing to do, on the back or right side for

cholesterol and

> left for calcified stones.

>

> Dale

February 5, 2002

In a message dated 2/4/02 9:32:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,

Da_@... writes:

> The fact of the matter is that calcium stone is heavier than the

> cholesterol stone. It in no uncertain terms is a true stone compared to a

> clod of waxy substance.

>

Dale

Forgive me if you've already answered this question - I may have missed it in

the tons of email that's been coming in (not complaining - I think the

activity is great!).

I'm just curious if you personally have ever passed a calcified stone? I've

heard a lot of people talk about them, but I don't think i've read anyone's

personal experience of passing one.

Thanks....

February 5, 2002

I thought I'd actually answered the question by pointing to marbles in a

sack. The fact of the matter is that calcium stone is heavier than the

cholesterol stone. It in no uncertain terms is a true stone compared to a

clod of waxy substance.

I wish I could find some information on the specific gravity of the various

stones but alas that just doesn't appear to be readily available. However, I

think that if you were to consider the difference between a ball of wax and

a marble you would see the marble is in fact a heavier object by comparison.

The trick to getting to those things is pretty much a hit and miss agenda

because of the fact that they can stick to the sides of the gallbladder

because of the cholesterol that is waxy in substance. Think of them as being

like the toys that you can throw on the wall and they will kind'o work their

way down the way. That's why I pointed to the factor of a sack with honey or

some other substance in it.