Re: Which Type of Sign????

[Guest guest]

>Yhe problem is there are so many types I don't know which is the best to

>learn? Should I learn more than one kind?

>Suggestions are welcome!

>~ and 's Confused Mom :>{

Here is my two cents on the subject. ASL is what most deaf adults use, even

if they learned SEE or pigeon as a child. ASL is a more expressive and

efficient form of communication for them.

ASL is a different language with it's own grammar etc. Sometimes one sign

can convey a what would be a whole sentence of information in English.

There are at least 5 or 6 different ways to sign " gone " in ASL. It depends

on if you are talking about a person or thing and the meaning of what you

are saying.

SEE is signed English. You put all the endings on words (ed, s, ing, etc.)

and you do not leave out any words. This is a very slow method of

communication and boring to watch (or so deaf adults have told me.) But it

is a language, English.

Pigeon, is probably what most of us do. I sign in English word order

because I talk when I sign. Petya is mostly oral and needs sign to

supplement sometimes. If you think of ASL on one end of the continuum and

SEE on the other Pigeon is anything and everything in between.

I choose signs made up for SEE sometimes for Petya because it gives her more

words visually. The signs for truck, car are the same in ASL but different

in SEE. So I will use the SEE signs to give her a better visual

representation.

ASL is a conceptual language. So what you sign does not always " match " the

English word. For example: Petya is learning the " Pledge of Allegiance " .

If you take the phrase, " for which it stands " in English you would use the

sign for stand. In ASL this makes no sense because the flag is not

standing. You would use the sign for " show " or " represents " because that is

what the meaning is. Or the other day when I was interpreting for the deaf

girl on the soccer team the coach told her to " go after the ball and not

wait for it to come to her. " I couldn't use the sign for " after " in this

sentence because conceptually this is incorrect. I signed " go GET the ball,

don't wait for the ball to come to you. "

When I sign I sign in English word order, without endings and will leave out

connecting words. Deaf adults have no trouble understanding my pigeon sign.

I am learning to read ASL. Sometimes I get stuck and ask what the person

meant and the reply is " Oh, that was ASL slang. " The main problem I have

is, due to my lack of fluency in sign, that sometimes if I am having trouble

coming up with how to sign something because I am having trouble figuring

out conceptually what sign I should choose I will simply say I am going to

use English words here. The deaf person will then understand and be able to

tell me which sign I should have chosen to represent the correct concept.

The area a deaf person told me I need to improve in is stating time better.

In English the tense of the word we used indicates when something happened

or that it hasn't happened yet. In ASL you indicate time first (a week ago

Tuesday) and then go on with what you are saying. In pigeon I am not using

word endings or tenses and then I sometimes need to clarify.

When you hear someone who speaks another language use English many times you

are hearing pigeon English. The grammar is not correct and sometimes they

may choose the wrong word to use but you understand what they really meant.

This is my case with pigeon. I am far from perfect but can make myself

understood and understand. I can communicate.

When you are first learning sign just learn lots of vocabulary. You will

make yourself understood in whatever sign you decide to go with. Most ASL

users will recognize most English signs.

I hope this gives you the information you are looking for. You don't have

to choose a sign method right now. If sign is what you are interested in

just start learning lots of vocabulary.

Sorry this got so long. Just want to point out again that there really

isn't a right or wrong way to do it, finding what works for you is the

important thing. I think Celeste said pretty much the same thing I did but

in more technical terms.

Barb

[Guest guest]

Barb

Do not say sorry for it being so long it answered a lot of my questions. A

lot of what you Terri, Celeste and are saying is true for us...we need

vocab in sign to suplement oral language.

In tricky hearing situations or things like song lyrics as Terri mentioned.

How did you go about getting all this signed vocab? Did you take ASL and

then just pick out what you needed?

Right now we know about ten words in sign.

Blue, red, Yellow, Colors, Clean, Flower, Mother, Father, Grandmother and

Grandfather....as you can see none of them will be too helpful in

conversation! :-)

~ and 's Mom

At 09:02 AM 9/7/99 -0400, you wrote:

>

>

>

>>Yhe problem is there are so many types I don't know which is the best to

>>learn? Should I learn more than one kind?

>>Suggestions are welcome!

>>~ and 's Confused Mom :>{

>

>

>Here is my two cents on the subject.

>Sorry this got so long. Just want to point out again that there really

>isn't a right or wrong way to do it, finding what works for you is the

>important thing. I think Celeste said pretty much the same thing I did but

in more technical terms.

>

>Barb

>

>

>---------------------------

[Guest guest]

>Barb

>How did you go about getting all this signed vocab? Did you take ASL and

>then just pick out what you needed?

>Right now we know about ten words in sign.

>Blue, red, Yellow, Colors, Clean, Flower, Mother, Father, Grandmother and

>Grandfather....as you can see none of them will be too helpful in

>conversation! :-)

>~ and 's Mom

Yes, I took some ASL classes and learned vocab. In response to another

post, you cannot talk and sign ASL at the same time. At least I can't

because it is different word order. In my class whenever we did

presentations to the class I would not speak because the students were

trying to learn to read sign also. But I signed in English word order even

in class. It was just too confusing for me at that point to try to do two

different languages. The teacher knew my situation, simply explained to the

class that I signed in English word order because of my daughter and no one

minded.

Can you get to know any deaf people in your community? This has helped me

more than any classes ever did. My sign teacher now is deaf. There are

many classes for beginning signers but I am beyond that. The few more

advanced classes I have heard about have been cancelled due to lack of

interest. There are college classes but I cannot afford them. Can you go

to school and observe your daughter's class? I would do that from time to

time and learn sign simply watching the class. I have not had problems

finding deaf people to help instruct me in sign.

I did outgrow one deaf man who is very good and patient at instructing

beginners but was never educated formally and my vocabulary quickly outgrew

his. His wife now helps me. I also have a deaf neighbor who is a teacher

at the Virginia School for the Deaf and in an emergency I can always run

over there and ask how do I sign...?

Do you have the Communications catalog? A video series that is good

for beginning signer is " Beginning American Sign Language VideoCourse " It

features deaf actor Seago. and it is very expensive but it was

available at my public library. I also have a couple of text books used at

a community college to train interpreters. " A Basic Course in American Sign

Language " by Humphries, Padden & O'Rourke. It has lots of vocabulary

words as well as ASL language structure. It is easy to follow but you still

need help from a signing person to get you through it.

Barb

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 09/06/1999 6:47:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

wog@... writes:

<< I am just wondering now what type of sign to use.... has a

progressive loss, but is verbal...about 1 year behind...he is almost five...

We are learning sign for several reason...first because experiencing this

has made me aware that knowing sign regardless if you know deaf people can

be a huge benifit...to me it is as though I will be mearly learning a second

language...second because there may come a time when sign is a better form

of communication for ~ie. if he completely loses his hearing, already

there are times when I know sign is abenifit espeacilly when his aids are

out or off :-/ ...thirdly because he will become a part of the deaf

community at some point I am sure and make friends who like himself jave

hearing loss and I want his friends to be comfortable in our home and I

would like for to feel comfortable having his freinds here and all

of us being able to communicate and lastly becaus eit feels like the right

thing to do.

Yhe problem is there are so many types I don't know which is the best to

learn? Should I learn more than one kind?

Suggestions are welcome!

~ and 's Confused Mom :>{ >>

Hi ,

Yes it is confusing. There are many different types of signing. Of course

it would be best if you could learn SEE , PSE and ASL as they all have their

own uses. However that it a daunting thing so you may want to pick one and

work hard at that one. Different people have different philosophies as to

which is best. Depends on what you want to concentrate on....

Terry