Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Hi Grace, Trust your instincts. Your memories and your instincts are absolutely correct. Your child is your priority: many, many kudos to you for realizing that you need to protect your child from your bpd mother, who just happens to be behaving nicely for the time being. You are totally right to play it safe and never leave your child alone with your nada: supervised visits only. BPD does not " go away. " I'm interested and pleased to hear that Zoloft is tuning down the intensity of your nada's mood swings, but it does not " cure " a personality disorder. Yes, that is an insidious part of bpd: they can choose to behave very sweetly, kindly and motherly, sometimes for long periods, but you know that the Witch is lurking under the surface and ready to come out when nada feels thwarted or disrespected or whatever. My nada shared that trait with yours: she believes that I as an infant " rejected her " ! If that's not the thought pattern of a mentally ill person, I don't know what is. And yes, it would be easier on us if they acted out more often, if they were " worse. " The good behavior is very lulling, isn't it? Just keep telling yourself, " My mother is mentally ill. She can become enraged and act out at any moment, and she is not going to act out at my child. I did not cause my mother to be mentally ill, and I have the right to protect myself and my child from her abuse. " Do NOT feel guilty for protecting your child or yourself; you are NOT doing anything wrong. best wishes and many kudos to you, -Annie > > I grew up with a BPD mom. She fits the description of the witch mom > in _Understanding the Borderline Mother_. I was the bad child for > about 10 years--most of which my mother just rarely interacted with > me except to rage at me (I'd get the bathmat wet and she'd scream at > me about how ungrateful I was, about how I just made her life so > hard; or I'd fight with my brother and she'd tell me to move out > because I just couldn't be a good member of the family). When she > finally went on zoloft, the extreme rages stopped, but she still > seemed to blame me for her unhappiness, saying I'd rejected her when > I was an infant and had always rejected her. I remember her seeming > pleased when I cried after our fights--she'd get this little smile on > her face when I dissolved into sobs. In the last few years she's been > really pleasant. She's been pursuing a relationship with me after > years of refusing to even call me because it was her " perogative to > have you call me because you've always rejected me. " I find it deeply > deeply threatening when she's nice. And now that I have a child, it's > even worse. She's good with my daughter--creative and sweet and > patient--but I won't let her babysit. I just have too many awful > memories. But she's so rarely obviously crazy or cruel now, so I feel > crazy and cruel when I set limits and choose not to be with her or > let her spend time with my daughter. I have to set limits because if > I don't, I spiral into self-loathing and even have flashbacks. But it > was so much easier--if so much more unpleasant--when she was > obviously being awful. It was easier to see that my reactions to her > made sense. But now, on the surface, it looks like I have a sweet > mother who just wants to be a good grandma...and I feel crazy for > leaving interactions with her (even very pleasant ones) feeling > depressed and threatened. I don't see any real way to have a good > relationship with her. She's been unable to acknowledge ever hurting > me and did lash out when I finally told her I thought she'd been > really emotionally abusive when I was a kid. Though she's more > pleasant on the surface, I know that she hasn't changed on any deep > level and still sees me as the one who ruined our relationship. I > don't want her in my life, but it's nearly impossible to have a > relationship with my dad and brothers if I refuse to see her, so I've > decided to deal with her and just set limits I need to set. But I > haven't figured out how to deal with the guilt and sense that I'm > crazy and over-reacting. I almost wish she'd blow up and say > something crazy and angry and horrible just so I could remind > myself, " Yeah, that's why you're setting these limits. You have a > right to set these limits. " She did some of that when I took some > space from her, but most of the time she just buries it and it comes > out in really subtle ways other probably wouldn't even notice. Any of > you experienced something similar? Any advice on how to deal with the > emotional fall-out of all of this? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Please read my previous post " How healthy are your boundaries " and take the quiz. Reading your post made me feel somewhat panicked for your daughter.. The old-timers have heard this story from my childhood, but I'll share it again, for you. Overall, one wouldn't likely say my mother was " abusive. " When I was about 10, she was curling my hair for a funeral. I had very, very thin hair, and the first curl of the iron burnt my head and I said, " OW " . Her response was to pull my hair with the iron hand and hit me with the brush in her other hand. She told me in a very frightening, hateful voice that I needed to shut the hell up or she'd give me something to yell about. I was terrified of her, and knew I was helpless against her. So I sat there, crying as silently as I could, asking myself why it was wrong of me to let her know she burned me. She burned me with every, single curl. Put that iron all the way to my head and held it there. That bitch did it on purpose, and all I could do was sit there and cry, which I could not even do with any sound. She just broke my spirit that day. Just crushed it. Why does my mother hate me? What did I do wrong? I was so crushed, I could not stop crying for at least an hour. My father asked HER what my problem was and she said " nothing " . Nobody witnessed this. She did it purposely when we were alone. Let me repeat that. Nobody witnessed this. She did it purposely when we were alone.. Did your mother do stuff like that to you? She'll do it to your daughter too. Could you imagine putting your daughter in a situation where someone could do that to her? Did I scare you enough to not let her be alone with your mother? It is *your job* to protect her from that. You are the adult and you don't have to justify yourself to anyone, ever! Remember the things your nada did to you when nobody was looking, and feel strong and proud for stopping that cycle by keeping her from being alone with your daughter. You already have the knowing, and that is a huge step. When someone pressures you to leave her alone with your mother, ask that little girl inside of you, the one she did horrible things to, if she thinks it's okay for you to do that. Stand up for her! Tell her you'll protect her by protecting your own child. She's the only one you have to hold yourself accountable to. Good for you for recognizing the pattern and sticking to your guns! I know you can keep doing it! -Deanna > > I grew up with a BPD mom. She fits the description of the witch mom > in _Understanding the Borderline Mother_. I was the bad child for > about 10 years--most of which my mother just rarely interacted with > me except to rage at me (I'd get the bathmat wet and she'd scream at > me about how ungrateful I was, about how I just made her life so > hard; or I'd fight with my brother and she'd tell me to move out > because I just couldn't be a good member of the family). When she > finally went on zoloft, the extreme rages stopped, but she still > seemed to blame me for her unhappiness, saying I'd rejected her when > I was an infant and had always rejected her. I remember her seeming > pleased when I cried after our fights--she'd get this little smile on > her face when I dissolved into sobs. In the last few years she's been > really pleasant. She's been pursuing a relationship with me after > years of refusing to even call me because it was her " perogative to > have you call me because you've always rejected me. " I find it deeply > deeply threatening when she's nice. And now that I have a child, it's > even worse. She's good with my daughter--creative and sweet and > patient--but I won't let her babysit. I just have too many awful > memories. But she's so rarely obviously crazy or cruel now, so I feel > crazy and cruel when I set limits and choose not to be with her or > let her spend time with my daughter. I have to set limits because if > I don't, I spiral into self-loathing and even have flashbacks. But it > was so much easier--if so much more unpleasant--when she was > obviously being awful. It was easier to see that my reactions to her > made sense. But now, on the surface, it looks like I have a sweet > mother who just wants to be a good grandma...and I feel crazy for > leaving interactions with her (even very pleasant ones) feeling > depressed and threatened. I don't see any real way to have a good > relationship with her. She's been unable to acknowledge ever hurting > me and did lash out when I finally told her I thought she'd been > really emotionally abusive when I was a kid. Though she's more > pleasant on the surface, I know that she hasn't changed on any deep > level and still sees me as the one who ruined our relationship. I > don't want her in my life, but it's nearly impossible to have a > relationship with my dad and brothers if I refuse to see her, so I've > decided to deal with her and just set limits I need to set. But I > haven't figured out how to deal with the guilt and sense that I'm > crazy and over-reacting. I almost wish she'd blow up and say > something crazy and angry and horrible just so I could remind > myself, " Yeah, that's why you're setting these limits. You have a > right to set these limits. " She did some of that when I took some > space from her, but most of the time she just buries it and it comes > out in really subtle ways other probably wouldn't even notice. Any of > you experienced something similar? Any advice on how to deal with the > emotional fall-out of all of this? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Would you let a wild tiger babysit your kids? How about a " tamed " one? Your experience with your mother was real, your feelings are valid, and your instincts are reliable. Even if your mother has learned to control her behavior in certain situations, you know better than to trust that she will be ok with your kids when you are not there. Trust your instincts. > > I grew up with a BPD mom. She fits the description of the witch mom > in _Understanding the Borderline Mother_. I was the bad child for > about 10 years--most of which my mother just rarely interacted with > me except to rage at me (I'd get the bathmat wet and she'd scream at > me about how ungrateful I was, about how I just made her life so > hard; or I'd fight with my brother and she'd tell me to move out > because I just couldn't be a good member of the family). When she > finally went on zoloft, the extreme rages stopped, but she still > seemed to blame me for her unhappiness, saying I'd rejected her when > I was an infant and had always rejected her. I remember her seeming > pleased when I cried after our fights--she'd get this little smile on > her face when I dissolved into sobs. In the last few years she's been > really pleasant. She's been pursuing a relationship with me after > years of refusing to even call me because it was her " perogative to > have you call me because you've always rejected me. " I find it deeply > deeply threatening when she's nice. And now that I have a child, it's > even worse. She's good with my daughter--creative and sweet and > patient--but I won't let her babysit. I just have too many awful > memories. But she's so rarely obviously crazy or cruel now, so I feel > crazy and cruel when I set limits and choose not to be with her or > let her spend time with my daughter. I have to set limits because if > I don't, I spiral into self-loathing and even have flashbacks. But it > was so much easier--if so much more unpleasant--when she was > obviously being awful. It was easier to see that my reactions to her > made sense. But now, on the surface, it looks like I have a sweet > mother who just wants to be a good grandma...and I feel crazy for > leaving interactions with her (even very pleasant ones) feeling > depressed and threatened. I don't see any real way to have a good > relationship with her. She's been unable to acknowledge ever hurting > me and did lash out when I finally told her I thought she'd been > really emotionally abusive when I was a kid. Though she's more > pleasant on the surface, I know that she hasn't changed on any deep > level and still sees me as the one who ruined our relationship. I > don't want her in my life, but it's nearly impossible to have a > relationship with my dad and brothers if I refuse to see her, so I've > decided to deal with her and just set limits I need to set. But I > haven't figured out how to deal with the guilt and sense that I'm > crazy and over-reacting. I almost wish she'd blow up and say > something crazy and angry and horrible just so I could remind > myself, " Yeah, that's why you're setting these limits. You have a > right to set these limits. " She did some of that when I took some > space from her, but most of the time she just buries it and it comes > out in really subtle ways other probably wouldn't even notice. Any of > you experienced something similar? Any advice on how to deal with the > emotional fall-out of all of this? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Reading again about how your mother repeatedly, deliberately burned you with the curling iron and threatened you with a beating if you made any noise makes me cry and makes me just so enraged at the same time. Your nada's butt should have been slammed in jail for torturing you like that, what a monstrously cruel and sadistic thing to do. Those old curling irons could cause bad burns, and even a first-degree scalp burn is painful and so easily avoided. It is just shockingly indicative of severe mental illness that your mother would do something like that. The reason I'm posting is to emphasize (again) to those of you with small children that this abuse occurred while nada had Deanna alone in the bathroom *even though the dad was home, but in another part of the house.* When we advise to to not leave your children alone with a nada, we mean it quite literally: do not leave the room! Keep your child in your line of sight and within hearing at all times. In The Same Room. Do not let nada take the child to the restroom, give the child food or medicine, comb the child's hair, give the child a bath, change the child's diaper: you do it. If this sounds over the top, read Deanna's story again. Read other member's stories here in earlier posts about their nada shaking their infant hard because it was " choking " , or not giving their child the asthma medicine she needed, or making the child go without drinking any liquid all day, threatening to make the child eat something the child found disgusting, tripping a toddler so he fell when he was running " because he was making too much noise " or reminding a small, sick child she missed Halloween when the child was bedridden. The list of abuses is as sickening as it is endless. You are the only one standing in the way of " just a little pinch on the arm to teach him a lesson " , or an " Oops!, I didn't realize she was standing so near the stairwell! " or an " I didn't know he was allergic to peanuts " or " I only left her alone in the tub for a few seconds... " Please, do NOT leave your child alone with the rabid dog / wild tiger / child abuser. -Annie > > > > I grew up with a BPD mom. She fits the description of the witch mom > > in _Understanding the Borderline Mother_. I was the bad child for > > about 10 years--most of which my mother just rarely interacted with > > me except to rage at me (I'd get the bathmat wet and she'd scream at > > me about how ungrateful I was, about how I just made her life so > > hard; or I'd fight with my brother and she'd tell me to move out > > because I just couldn't be a good member of the family). When she > > finally went on zoloft, the extreme rages stopped, but she still > > seemed to blame me for her unhappiness, saying I'd rejected her when > > I was an infant and had always rejected her. I remember her seeming > > pleased when I cried after our fights--she'd get this little smile on > > her face when I dissolved into sobs. In the last few years she's been > > really pleasant. She's been pursuing a relationship with me after > > years of refusing to even call me because it was her " perogative to > > have you call me because you've always rejected me. " I find it deeply > > deeply threatening when she's nice. And now that I have a child, it's > > even worse. She's good with my daughter--creative and sweet and > > patient--but I won't let her babysit. I just have too many awful > > memories. But she's so rarely obviously crazy or cruel now, so I feel > > crazy and cruel when I set limits and choose not to be with her or > > let her spend time with my daughter. I have to set limits because if > > I don't, I spiral into self-loathing and even have flashbacks. But it > > was so much easier--if so much more unpleasant--when she was > > obviously being awful. It was easier to see that my reactions to her > > made sense. But now, on the surface, it looks like I have a sweet > > mother who just wants to be a good grandma...and I feel crazy for > > leaving interactions with her (even very pleasant ones) feeling > > depressed and threatened. I don't see any real way to have a good > > relationship with her. She's been unable to acknowledge ever hurting > > me and did lash out when I finally told her I thought she'd been > > really emotionally abusive when I was a kid. Though she's more > > pleasant on the surface, I know that she hasn't changed on any deep > > level and still sees me as the one who ruined our relationship. I > > don't want her in my life, but it's nearly impossible to have a > > relationship with my dad and brothers if I refuse to see her, so I've > > decided to deal with her and just set limits I need to set. But I > > haven't figured out how to deal with the guilt and sense that I'm > > crazy and over-reacting. I almost wish she'd blow up and say > > something crazy and angry and horrible just so I could remind > > myself, " Yeah, that's why you're setting these limits. You have a > > right to set these limits. " She did some of that when I took some > > space from her, but most of the time she just buries it and it comes > > out in really subtle ways other probably wouldn't even notice. Any of > > you experienced something similar? Any advice on how to deal with the > > emotional fall-out of all of this? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Annie, thank you so much for the validation. I think you also make a great point about being *right there at all times* and not just in the same house. So important! Thank you again for the kind words, understanding and validation. -Deanna > > > > > > I grew up with a BPD mom. She fits the description of the witch mom > > > in _Understanding the Borderline Mother_. I was the bad child for > > > about 10 years--most of which my mother just rarely interacted with > > > me except to rage at me (I'd get the bathmat wet and she'd scream at > > > me about how ungrateful I was, about how I just made her life so > > > hard; or I'd fight with my brother and she'd tell me to move out > > > because I just couldn't be a good member of the family). When she > > > finally went on zoloft, the extreme rages stopped, but she still > > > seemed to blame me for her unhappiness, saying I'd rejected her when > > > I was an infant and had always rejected her. I remember her seeming > > > pleased when I cried after our fights--she'd get this little smile on > > > her face when I dissolved into sobs. In the last few years she's been > > > really pleasant. She's been pursuing a relationship with me after > > > years of refusing to even call me because it was her " perogative to > > > have you call me because you've always rejected me. " I find it deeply > > > deeply threatening when she's nice. And now that I have a child, it's > > > even worse. She's good with my daughter--creative and sweet and > > > patient--but I won't let her babysit. I just have too many awful > > > memories. But she's so rarely obviously crazy or cruel now, so I feel > > > crazy and cruel when I set limits and choose not to be with her or > > > let her spend time with my daughter. I have to set limits because if > > > I don't, I spiral into self-loathing and even have flashbacks. But it > > > was so much easier--if so much more unpleasant--when she was > > > obviously being awful. It was easier to see that my reactions to her > > > made sense. But now, on the surface, it looks like I have a sweet > > > mother who just wants to be a good grandma...and I feel crazy for > > > leaving interactions with her (even very pleasant ones) feeling > > > depressed and threatened. I don't see any real way to have a good > > > relationship with her. She's been unable to acknowledge ever hurting > > > me and did lash out when I finally told her I thought she'd been > > > really emotionally abusive when I was a kid. Though she's more > > > pleasant on the surface, I know that she hasn't changed on any deep > > > level and still sees me as the one who ruined our relationship. I > > > don't want her in my life, but it's nearly impossible to have a > > > relationship with my dad and brothers if I refuse to see her, so I've > > > decided to deal with her and just set limits I need to set. But I > > > haven't figured out how to deal with the guilt and sense that I'm > > > crazy and over-reacting. I almost wish she'd blow up and say > > > something crazy and angry and horrible just so I could remind > > > myself, " Yeah, that's why you're setting these limits. You have a > > > right to set these limits. " She did some of that when I took some > > > space from her, but most of the time she just buries it and it comes > > > out in really subtle ways other probably wouldn't even notice. Any of > > > you experienced something similar? Any advice on how to deal with the > > > emotional fall-out of all of this? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Thanks so much to all of you for your validation, and for the re- iteration of how important it is not to leave kids alone with BPD grandparents. I don't leave my child alone with my mom for precisely the reasons you've listed, but it's easy to forget when she's in her sweet phase. I'd actually forgotten until I read all of your messages about the fact that the first " sweet phase " with her lasted about 8 or 9 years when I was a little kid. And then, seemingly without warning, she just started hating me--actually left a needle in a sandwich she made for me (something my dad, who--at least in my memory--was there, says never happened, but that I've always remembered vividly). She never did anything quite like that again-- the rest of her abuse was verbal and emotional. But I'd forgotten that even when I was a kid she was capable of going for a really long time without being overtly abusive and then just switching into crazy sadistic lady. And I can definitely imagine her bonding with my child and then becoming cruel and sadistic as soon as my daughter pulled away at all or said the wrong thing. Thanks so much for the reminders. It's hard to remember exactly how bad she can get when it's been years between really obviously horrible stuff... > > > > > > I grew up with a BPD mom. She fits the description of the witch mom > > > in _Understanding the Borderline Mother_. I was the bad child for > > > about 10 years--most of which my mother just rarely interacted with > > > me except to rage at me (I'd get the bathmat wet and she'd scream at > > > me about how ungrateful I was, about how I just made her life so > > > hard; or I'd fight with my brother and she'd tell me to move out > > > because I just couldn't be a good member of the family). When she > > > finally went on zoloft, the extreme rages stopped, but she still > > > seemed to blame me for her unhappiness, saying I'd rejected her when > > > I was an infant and had always rejected her. I remember her seeming > > > pleased when I cried after our fights--she'd get this little smile on > > > her face when I dissolved into sobs. In the last few years she's been > > > really pleasant. She's been pursuing a relationship with me after > > > years of refusing to even call me because it was her " perogative to > > > have you call me because you've always rejected me. " I find it deeply > > > deeply threatening when she's nice. And now that I have a child, it's > > > even worse. She's good with my daughter--creative and sweet and > > > patient--but I won't let her babysit. I just have too many awful > > > memories. But she's so rarely obviously crazy or cruel now, so I feel > > > crazy and cruel when I set limits and choose not to be with her or > > > let her spend time with my daughter. I have to set limits because if > > > I don't, I spiral into self-loathing and even have flashbacks. But it > > > was so much easier--if so much more unpleasant--when she was > > > obviously being awful. It was easier to see that my reactions to her > > > made sense. But now, on the surface, it looks like I have a sweet > > > mother who just wants to be a good grandma...and I feel crazy for > > > leaving interactions with her (even very pleasant ones) feeling > > > depressed and threatened. I don't see any real way to have a good > > > relationship with her. She's been unable to acknowledge ever hurting > > > me and did lash out when I finally told her I thought she'd been > > > really emotionally abusive when I was a kid. Though she's more > > > pleasant on the surface, I know that she hasn't changed on any deep > > > level and still sees me as the one who ruined our relationship. I > > > don't want her in my life, but it's nearly impossible to have a > > > relationship with my dad and brothers if I refuse to see her, so I've > > > decided to deal with her and just set limits I need to set. But I > > > haven't figured out how to deal with the guilt and sense that I'm > > > crazy and over-reacting. I almost wish she'd blow up and say > > > something crazy and angry and horrible just so I could remind > > > myself, " Yeah, that's why you're setting these limits. You have a > > > right to set these limits. " She did some of that when I took some > > > space from her, but most of the time she just buries it and it comes > > > out in really subtle ways other probably wouldn't even notice. Any of > > > you experienced something similar? Any advice on how to deal with the > > > emotional fall-out of all of this? > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 One more reminder! On a different sort of note than the curling iron, so obviously done in anger. She used to accidentally (?) burn me with her cigarette. It happened several times, as we walked into a store or some such thing. Her usual response was, " you're FINE " . After several times, I learned to walk on her left to avoid the right handed cigarette. It wasn't until many years into my adulthood that I realized....nobody has *ever* burned me with their cigarette. Not even a *drunk* person. Not the most heinous of examples, but in hindsight, I think it's a lot easier to not burn someone repeatedly with a cigarette than she made it out to be. So easy for a nada to say, " what? it was an accident! " sickos!! -Deanna > > > > > > > > I grew up with a BPD mom. She fits the description of the witch > mom > > > > in _Understanding the Borderline Mother_. I was the bad child > for > > > > about 10 years--most of which my mother just rarely interacted > with > > > > me except to rage at me (I'd get the bathmat wet and she'd > scream at > > > > me about how ungrateful I was, about how I just made her life > so > > > > hard; or I'd fight with my brother and she'd tell me to move > out > > > > because I just couldn't be a good member of the family). When > she > > > > finally went on zoloft, the extreme rages stopped, but she > still > > > > seemed to blame me for her unhappiness, saying I'd rejected her > when > > > > I was an infant and had always rejected her. I remember her > seeming > > > > pleased when I cried after our fights--she'd get this little > smile on > > > > her face when I dissolved into sobs. In the last few years > she's been > > > > really pleasant. She's been pursuing a relationship with me > after > > > > years of refusing to even call me because it was > her " perogative to > > > > have you call me because you've always rejected me. " I find it > deeply > > > > deeply threatening when she's nice. And now that I have a > child, it's > > > > even worse. She's good with my daughter--creative and sweet and > > > > patient--but I won't let her babysit. I just have too many > awful > > > > memories. But she's so rarely obviously crazy or cruel now, so > I feel > > > > crazy and cruel when I set limits and choose not to be with her > or > > > > let her spend time with my daughter. I have to set limits > because if > > > > I don't, I spiral into self-loathing and even have flashbacks. > But it > > > > was so much easier--if so much more unpleasant--when she was > > > > obviously being awful. It was easier to see that my reactions > to her > > > > made sense. But now, on the surface, it looks like I have a > sweet > > > > mother who just wants to be a good grandma...and I feel crazy > for > > > > leaving interactions with her (even very pleasant ones) feeling > > > > depressed and threatened. I don't see any real way to have a > good > > > > relationship with her. She's been unable to acknowledge ever > hurting > > > > me and did lash out when I finally told her I thought she'd > been > > > > really emotionally abusive when I was a kid. Though she's more > > > > pleasant on the surface, I know that she hasn't changed on any > deep > > > > level and still sees me as the one who ruined our relationship. > I > > > > don't want her in my life, but it's nearly impossible to have a > > > > relationship with my dad and brothers if I refuse to see her, > so I've > > > > decided to deal with her and just set limits I need to set. But > I > > > > haven't figured out how to deal with the guilt and sense that > I'm > > > > crazy and over-reacting. I almost wish she'd blow up and say > > > > something crazy and angry and horrible just so I could remind > > > > myself, " Yeah, that's why you're setting these limits. You have > a > > > > right to set these limits. " She did some of that when I took > some > > > > space from her, but most of the time she just buries it and it > comes > > > > out in really subtle ways other probably wouldn't even notice. > Any of > > > > you experienced something similar? Any advice on how to deal > with the > > > > emotional fall-out of all of this? > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Yes, unfortunately, I think you are right: you were burned with lit cigarettes deliberately. It sounds to me like pure hateful meanness, as though your nada had a constant low-grade mad-on at you, and would casually take opportunities to hurt you " accidentally " when she could. These two bpd traits in particular should (in my opinion) automatically preclude ever leaving a child alone with a personality disordered, severely mentally ill individual. These can be devastating or even deadly to a child: BPD Rapid, unpredictable mood swings: Grandnada can be happy and smiling one minute, and neglectful, or crying, or raging with anger the next minute. Nada might jerk your child along by the arm and dislocate the shoulder joint out of the socket " because he was dawdling " , or begin raging at the child while driving and have a head-on collision, or wander away, forgetting that she left your baby outside by the swimming pool. BPD/narcissist Passive-aggressive revenge behavior: You have stood up to your mentally ill mother and given her a boundary; she is enraged at *you*, but she doesn't feel safe lashing out at you. Instead, she'll take the passive-aggressive route and attack your smaller, weaker substitute. Oops! There is broken glass in the child's chocolate milkshake, or grandnada " forgets " to buckle the toddler into her car seat, or the less lethal but equally devastating attacks of emotional abuse: your child is crying because grandnada has called him fat/stupid/lazy/etc., or nada lavishes gifts and attention on one child and ignores another (who reminds her of you.) Incident after incident has been written about here, each story more horrible than the last. The one about the needle in the sandwich still has me shuddering. If even one child will be protected or rescued from emotional/physical/sexual abuse by a mentally ill relative as a result of all the true horror stories posted here, then this Group will have done a great thing, in my opinion! -Annie > > > > > > > > > > I grew up with a BPD mom. She fits the description of the witch > > mom > > > > > in _Understanding the Borderline Mother_. I was the bad child > > for > > > > > about 10 years--most of which my mother just rarely interacted > > with > > > > > me except to rage at me (I'd get the bathmat wet and she'd > > scream at > > > > > me about how ungrateful I was, about how I just made her life > > so > > > > > hard; or I'd fight with my brother and she'd tell me to move > > out > > > > > because I just couldn't be a good member of the family). When > > she > > > > > finally went on zoloft, the extreme rages stopped, but she > > still > > > > > seemed to blame me for her unhappiness, saying I'd rejected her > > when > > > > > I was an infant and had always rejected her. I remember her > > seeming > > > > > pleased when I cried after our fights--she'd get this little > > smile on > > > > > her face when I dissolved into sobs. In the last few years > > she's been > > > > > really pleasant. She's been pursuing a relationship with me > > after > > > > > years of refusing to even call me because it was > > her " perogative to > > > > > have you call me because you've always rejected me. " I find it > > deeply > > > > > deeply threatening when she's nice. And now that I have a > > child, it's > > > > > even worse. She's good with my daughter--creative and sweet and > > > > > patient--but I won't let her babysit. I just have too many > > awful > > > > > memories. But she's so rarely obviously crazy or cruel now, so > > I feel > > > > > crazy and cruel when I set limits and choose not to be with her > > or > > > > > let her spend time with my daughter. I have to set limits > > because if > > > > > I don't, I spiral into self-loathing and even have flashbacks. > > But it > > > > > was so much easier--if so much more unpleasant--when she was > > > > > obviously being awful. It was easier to see that my reactions > > to her > > > > > made sense. But now, on the surface, it looks like I have a > > sweet > > > > > mother who just wants to be a good grandma...and I feel crazy > > for > > > > > leaving interactions with her (even very pleasant ones) feeling > > > > > depressed and threatened. I don't see any real way to have a > > good > > > > > relationship with her. She's been unable to acknowledge ever > > hurting > > > > > me and did lash out when I finally told her I thought she'd > > been > > > > > really emotionally abusive when I was a kid. Though she's more > > > > > pleasant on the surface, I know that she hasn't changed on any > > deep > > > > > level and still sees me as the one who ruined our relationship. > > I > > > > > don't want her in my life, but it's nearly impossible to have a > > > > > relationship with my dad and brothers if I refuse to see her, > > so I've > > > > > decided to deal with her and just set limits I need to set. But > > I > > > > > haven't figured out how to deal with the guilt and sense that > > I'm > > > > > crazy and over-reacting. I almost wish she'd blow up and say > > > > > something crazy and angry and horrible just so I could remind > > > > > myself, " Yeah, that's why you're setting these limits. You have > > a > > > > > right to set these limits. " She did some of that when I took > > some > > > > > space from her, but most of the time she just buries it and it > > comes > > > > > out in really subtle ways other probably wouldn't even notice. > > Any of > > > > > you experienced something similar? Any advice on how to deal > > with the > > > > > emotional fall-out of all of this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Also wanted to say that I'm glad we could help you, and I applaud you for doing what you know is right. So glad we are all here to help one another! -Deanna > > > > > > > > I grew up with a BPD mom. She fits the description of the witch > mom > > > > in _Understanding the Borderline Mother_. I was the bad child > for > > > > about 10 years--most of which my mother just rarely interacted > with > > > > me except to rage at me (I'd get the bathmat wet and she'd > scream at > > > > me about how ungrateful I was, about how I just made her life > so > > > > hard; or I'd fight with my brother and she'd tell me to move > out > > > > because I just couldn't be a good member of the family). When > she > > > > finally went on zoloft, the extreme rages stopped, but she > still > > > > seemed to blame me for her unhappiness, saying I'd rejected her > when > > > > I was an infant and had always rejected her. I remember her > seeming > > > > pleased when I cried after our fights--she'd get this little > smile on > > > > her face when I dissolved into sobs. In the last few years > she's been > > > > really pleasant. She's been pursuing a relationship with me > after > > > > years of refusing to even call me because it was > her " perogative to > > > > have you call me because you've always rejected me. " I find it > deeply > > > > deeply threatening when she's nice. And now that I have a > child, it's > > > > even worse. She's good with my daughter--creative and sweet and > > > > patient--but I won't let her babysit. I just have too many > awful > > > > memories. But she's so rarely obviously crazy or cruel now, so > I feel > > > > crazy and cruel when I set limits and choose not to be with her > or > > > > let her spend time with my daughter. I have to set limits > because if > > > > I don't, I spiral into self-loathing and even have flashbacks. > But it > > > > was so much easier--if so much more unpleasant--when she was > > > > obviously being awful. It was easier to see that my reactions > to her > > > > made sense. But now, on the surface, it looks like I have a > sweet > > > > mother who just wants to be a good grandma...and I feel crazy > for > > > > leaving interactions with her (even very pleasant ones) feeling > > > > depressed and threatened. I don't see any real way to have a > good > > > > relationship with her. She's been unable to acknowledge ever > hurting > > > > me and did lash out when I finally told her I thought she'd > been > > > > really emotionally abusive when I was a kid. Though she's more > > > > pleasant on the surface, I know that she hasn't changed on any > deep > > > > level and still sees me as the one who ruined our relationship. > I > > > > don't want her in my life, but it's nearly impossible to have a > > > > relationship with my dad and brothers if I refuse to see her, > so I've > > > > decided to deal with her and just set limits I need to set. But > I > > > > haven't figured out how to deal with the guilt and sense that > I'm > > > > crazy and over-reacting. I almost wish she'd blow up and say > > > > something crazy and angry and horrible just so I could remind > > > > myself, " Yeah, that's why you're setting these limits. You have > a > > > > right to set these limits. " She did some of that when I took > some > > > > space from her, but most of the time she just buries it and it > comes > > > > out in really subtle ways other probably wouldn't even notice. > Any of > > > > you experienced something similar? Any advice on how to deal > with the > > > > emotional fall-out of all of this? > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Ding Ding Ding! That's IT. I LOVE IT. Really fits, for so many of us, especially the higher functioning nadas... " a constant low-grade mad-on at (me) " Such a perfect selection of words. Thank you for that! -Deanna > > > > > > > > > > > > I grew up with a BPD mom. She fits the description of the witch > > > mom > > > > > > in _Understanding the Borderline Mother_. I was the bad child > > > for > > > > > > about 10 years--most of which my mother just rarely interacted > > > with > > > > > > me except to rage at me (I'd get the bathmat wet and she'd > > > scream at > > > > > > me about how ungrateful I was, about how I just made her life > > > so > > > > > > hard; or I'd fight with my brother and she'd tell me to move > > > out > > > > > > because I just couldn't be a good member of the family). When > > > she > > > > > > finally went on zoloft, the extreme rages stopped, but she > > > still > > > > > > seemed to blame me for her unhappiness, saying I'd rejected her > > > when > > > > > > I was an infant and had always rejected her. I remember her > > > seeming > > > > > > pleased when I cried after our fights--she'd get this little > > > smile on > > > > > > her face when I dissolved into sobs. In the last few years > > > she's been > > > > > > really pleasant. She's been pursuing a relationship with me > > > after > > > > > > years of refusing to even call me because it was > > > her " perogative to > > > > > > have you call me because you've always rejected me. " I find it > > > deeply > > > > > > deeply threatening when she's nice. And now that I have a > > > child, it's > > > > > > even worse. She's good with my daughter--creative and sweet and > > > > > > patient--but I won't let her babysit. I just have too many > > > awful > > > > > > memories. But she's so rarely obviously crazy or cruel now, so > > > I feel > > > > > > crazy and cruel when I set limits and choose not to be with her > > > or > > > > > > let her spend time with my daughter. I have to set limits > > > because if > > > > > > I don't, I spiral into self-loathing and even have flashbacks. > > > But it > > > > > > was so much easier--if so much more unpleasant--when she was > > > > > > obviously being awful. It was easier to see that my reactions > > > to her > > > > > > made sense. But now, on the surface, it looks like I have a > > > sweet > > > > > > mother who just wants to be a good grandma...and I feel crazy > > > for > > > > > > leaving interactions with her (even very pleasant ones) feeling > > > > > > depressed and threatened. I don't see any real way to have a > > > good > > > > > > relationship with her. She's been unable to acknowledge ever > > > hurting > > > > > > me and did lash out when I finally told her I thought she'd > > > been > > > > > > really emotionally abusive when I was a kid. Though she's more > > > > > > pleasant on the surface, I know that she hasn't changed on any > > > deep > > > > > > level and still sees me as the one who ruined our relationship. > > > I > > > > > > don't want her in my life, but it's nearly impossible to have a > > > > > > relationship with my dad and brothers if I refuse to see her, > > > so I've > > > > > > decided to deal with her and just set limits I need to set. But > > > I > > > > > > haven't figured out how to deal with the guilt and sense that > > > I'm > > > > > > crazy and over-reacting. I almost wish she'd blow up and say > > > > > > something crazy and angry and horrible just so I could remind > > > > > > myself, " Yeah, that's why you're setting these limits. You have > > > a > > > > > > right to set these limits. " She did some of that when I took > > > some > > > > > > space from her, but most of the time she just buries it and it > > > comes > > > > > > out in really subtle ways other probably wouldn't even notice. > > > Any of > > > > > > you experienced something similar? Any advice on how to deal > > > with the > > > > > > emotional fall-out of all of this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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