Re: Opinions sought

[Guest guest]

It sounds to me like she is jealous of your husband and trying

to drive a big wedge between the two of you. I think you're

right in not calling back to finish the conversation. Mothers

don't get to have " joint custody " with your spouse. You and your

husband are a couple. That's your primary relationship. Besides

that, it isn't a either/or contest between parents and spouse

where one gets you some of the time and the other gets you the

rest of the time. If I were married and my nada said things like

this, I'd add the whole topic to the list of things I won't talk

about with her. One of my rules for contact with her is that I

leave/hang up the phone if she insists on talking about certain

topics that are either inappropriate or that I know will bring

out her bad behavior. If she tries to talk about stuff on my

forbidden list, I simply tell her we're not going to discuss

that subject and change the subject to something else. If she

persists, I end my contact with her for that day.

At 02:01 PM 11/26/2008 luckybluejay wrote:

>I had a conversation with my nada almost two weeks ago. I was

>at

>work and couldn't finish the conversation, so she said to call

>her

>back so we could. I haven't called back yet becuase I don't

>want to

>finish the conversation. I am curious what you guys think

>about this

>conversation...insights/opinions would be relished. Here are

>some

>nuggets of what she said:

>1. She wants to arrange " joint custody " of me with my

>husband. When

>I objected to that and told her I was no one's custody she said

>she

>knew that, but she just couldn't think of another way to say

>it.

>

>2. She called my husband " uncaring " and said he had a " cold

>heart. "

>(This is delusional..husband is a teacher, a monk (not joking)

>and

>going into seminary...cares deeply about many things, including

>me.)

>

>3. She claimed that my husband purposely tried to be rude to

>my

>family from the begginning because husband was trying to get my

>

>family not to like him. (also, frankly, delusional

>thinking. Who,

>besides a completely mentally unstable person, would try to get

>

>people not to like him?)

>

>4. She claimed y husband didn't care about his relationship

>with my

>family, said things intended to hurt, and again, does things so

>they

>know that he doesn't like them.

>

>Wow. That's all I can say. I am LIVID!

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry, but I'm LMAO over the " joint custody " comment! Just the

presumption that you are in need of custodial care is ridiculous!

>

> I had a conversation with my nada almost two weeks ago. I was at

> work and couldn't finish the conversation, so she said to call her

> back so we could. I haven't called back yet becuase I don't want

to

> finish the conversation. I am curious what you guys think about

this

> conversation...insights/opinions would be relished. Here are some

> nuggets of what she said:

> 1. She wants to arrange " joint custody " of me with my husband.

When

> I objected to that and told her I was no one's custody she said

she

> knew that, but she just couldn't think of another way to say it.

>

> 2. She called my husband " uncaring " and said he had a " cold

heart. "

> (This is delusional..husband is a teacher, a monk (not joking) and

> going into seminary...cares deeply about many things, including

me.)

>

> 3. She claimed that my husband purposely tried to be rude to my

> family from the begginning because husband was trying to get my

> family not to like him. (also, frankly, delusional thinking.

Who,

> besides a completely mentally unstable person, would try to get

> people not to like him?)

>

> 4. She claimed y husband didn't care about his relationship with

my

> family, said things intended to hurt, and again, does things so

they

> know that he doesn't like them.

>

> Wow. That's all I can say. I am LIVID!

>

[Guest guest]

Sounds like my nada. It's classic BPD. She's trying to destroy

your relationship with your husband in a desperate attempt to get

closer to you.

The last time I spoke with my nada, she told me my father used to

beat me when I was a child, and she was the one who risked

everything to stopped him. I know that he never laid a hand on me,

but it was her way to trying to make herself sound important and

worthy. This was regardless of the impact her statement would have

on my relationship with my father.

For me, her destructive behavior was the last straw, and I've gone

NC.

-Rod

>

> I had a conversation with my nada almost two weeks ago. I was at

> work and couldn't finish the conversation, so she said to call her

> back so we could. I haven't called back yet becuase I don't want

to

> finish the conversation. I am curious what you guys think about

this

> conversation...insights/opinions would be relished. Here are some

> nuggets of what she said:

> 1. She wants to arrange " joint custody " of me with my husband.

When

> I objected to that and told her I was no one's custody she said

she

> knew that, but she just couldn't think of another way to say it.

>

> 2. She called my husband " uncaring " and said he had a " cold

heart. "

> (This is delusional..husband is a teacher, a monk (not joking) and

> going into seminary...cares deeply about many things, including

me.)

>

> 3. She claimed that my husband purposely tried to be rude to my

> family from the begginning because husband was trying to get my

> family not to like him. (also, frankly, delusional thinking.

Who,

> besides a completely mentally unstable person, would try to get

> people not to like him?)

>

> 4. She claimed y husband didn't care about his relationship with

my

> family, said things intended to hurt, and again, does things so

they

> know that he doesn't like them.

>

> Wow. That's all I can say. I am LIVID!

>

[Guest guest]

Me thinks your nada does project much.

-- In WTOAdultChildren1 , " luckybluejay "

wrote:

>

> I had a conversation with my nada almost two weeks ago. I was at

> work and couldn't finish the conversation, so she said to call her

> back so we could. I haven't called back yet becuase I don't want to

> finish the conversation. I am curious what you guys think about this

> conversation...insights/opinions would be relished. Here are some

> nuggets of what she said:

> 1. She wants to arrange " joint custody " of me with my husband. When

> I objected to that and told her I was no one's custody she said she

> knew that, but she just couldn't think of another way to say it.

>

> 2. She called my husband " uncaring " and said he had a " cold heart. "

> (This is delusional..husband is a teacher, a monk (not joking) and

> going into seminary...cares deeply about many things, including me.)

>

> 3. She claimed that my husband purposely tried to be rude to my

> family from the begginning because husband was trying to get my

> family not to like him. (also, frankly, delusional thinking. Who,

> besides a completely mentally unstable person, would try to get

> people not to like him?)

>

> 4. She claimed y husband didn't care about his relationship with my

> family, said things intended to hurt, and again, does things so they

> know that he doesn't like them.

>

> Wow. That's all I can say. I am LIVID!

>

[Guest guest]

HA!! Good one! Yes, the nada is accusing luckybluejay's husband of

all the things she herself does. Amazing how the bpds don't recognize

that behavior in themselves, isn't it.

If I were you, LBJ, I simply would not continue that conversation.

I'd limit nada to discussions about what activities, trips, visits

*nada* has been engaging in, and the weather, and make all discussions

about:

1. what nada wants from you

2. what nada thinks about your husband

totally off-limits.

-Annie

> >

> > I had a conversation with my nada almost two weeks ago. I was at

> > work and couldn't finish the conversation, so she said to call her

> > back so we could. I haven't called back yet becuase I don't want to

> > finish the conversation. I am curious what you guys think about this

> > conversation...insights/opinions would be relished. Here are some

> > nuggets of what she said:

> > 1. She wants to arrange " joint custody " of me with my husband. When

> > I objected to that and told her I was no one's custody she said she

> > knew that, but she just couldn't think of another way to say it.

> >

> > 2. She called my husband " uncaring " and said he had a " cold heart. "

> > (This is delusional..husband is a teacher, a monk (not joking) and

> > going into seminary...cares deeply about many things, including me.)

> >

> > 3. She claimed that my husband purposely tried to be rude to my

> > family from the begginning because husband was trying to get my

> > family not to like him. (also, frankly, delusional thinking. Who,

> > besides a completely mentally unstable person, would try to get

> > people not to like him?)

> >

> > 4. She claimed y husband didn't care about his relationship with my

> > family, said things intended to hurt, and again, does things so they

> > know that he doesn't like them.

> >

> > Wow. That's all I can say. I am LIVID!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hey, Lucky,

I understand not wanting to call her back. But I would suggest that

you do--and here's why. To avoid confronting her will not help

anything. Setting clear boundaries will. It will give you a sense

of empowerment, and it will show her that YOU are in charge of you.

Here's how your end might go (you could also email if that is easier

for you, but I find face-to-face or telephone to work best): " Hi,

Mom, I'd like to follow up on our last conversation. I want to make

sure you understand that I am an adult now. No one has custody of

me. From what you said, it seems like you are feeling hurt that I

spend more time with my husband than I do with you. Is that right?

(wait for response). You are entitled to feel that way. I think it

is normal for children to grow up and leave their parents. You and I

can communicate about how often we visit. (Frequency you are willing

to visit with your mother) would work well for me. Also, I do not

like it when you say hurtful things about my husband. He is very

good to me and we care about each other very much. You are entitled

to your opinion, but I want to let you know that I will hang up the

phone the next time you speak negatively about him to me. "

Hope that gets the wheels turning...

(If it were my mother, she'd go all waify, but it feels

>

> I had a conversation with my nada almost two weeks ago. I was at

> work and couldn't finish the conversation, so she said to call her

> back so we could. I haven't called back yet becuase I don't want

to

> finish the conversation. I am curious what you guys think about

this

> conversation...insights/opinions would be relished. Here are some

> nuggets of what she said:

> 1. She wants to arrange " joint custody " of me with my husband.

When

> I objected to that and told her I was no one's custody she said she

> knew that, but she just couldn't think of another way to say it.

>

> 2. She called my husband " uncaring " and said he had a " cold

heart. "

> (This is delusional..husband is a teacher, a monk (not joking) and

> going into seminary...cares deeply about many things, including me.)

>

> 3. She claimed that my husband purposely tried to be rude to my

> family from the begginning because husband was trying to get my

> family not to like him. (also, frankly, delusional thinking. Who,

> besides a completely mentally unstable person, would try to get

> people not to like him?)

>

> 4. She claimed y husband didn't care about his relationship with

my

> family, said things intended to hurt, and again, does things so

they

> know that he doesn't like them.

>

> Wow. That's all I can say. I am LIVID!

>

[Guest guest]

KT and everyone...thanks so much for your comments. I find myself

right now struggling to be " nice " at all. For example, I don't want

to even say to my nada that I understand that she feels upset that I

am spending more time with my husband than with her and she is

entitled to feel that way. Intellectually I understand she is

entitled to feel however she wants to feel or decides to feel. In my

anger, and I think it is anger, I don't want to give her even that

much. I want to say that it is ridiculous for her to feel that

way...but then I feel just like her. Being ridiculous about others'

feelings. Can anyone relate? Has anyone been over this hurdle

before?

Thanks,

Lucky

> >

> > I had a conversation with my nada almost two weeks ago. I was at

> > work and couldn't finish the conversation, so she said to call

her

> > back so we could. I haven't called back yet becuase I don't want

> to

> > finish the conversation. I am curious what you guys think about

> this

> > conversation...insights/opinions would be relished. Here are

some

> > nuggets of what she said:

> > 1. She wants to arrange " joint custody " of me with my husband.

> When

> > I objected to that and told her I was no one's custody she said

she

> > knew that, but she just couldn't think of another way to say it.

> >

> > 2. She called my husband " uncaring " and said he had a " cold

> heart. "

> > (This is delusional..husband is a teacher, a monk (not joking)

and

> > going into seminary...cares deeply about many things, including

me.)

> >

> > 3. She claimed that my husband purposely tried to be rude to my

> > family from the begginning because husband was trying to get my

> > family not to like him. (also, frankly, delusional thinking.

Who,

> > besides a completely mentally unstable person, would try to get

> > people not to like him?)

> >

> > 4. She claimed y husband didn't care about his relationship with

> my

> > family, said things intended to hurt, and again, does things so

> they

> > know that he doesn't like them.

> >

> > Wow. That's all I can say. I am LIVID!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The whole thing about validating the other person's feelings is just

part of one communication technique. You don't have to use that one

if you don't like it. Leave it out if you want, and just make " I "

statments. It's okay to be angry. In fact, enjoy that anger for a

while, give yourself permission to feel it, and then when you're

ready you can work on letting some of it go.

Of course, you don't have to be " nice. " In fact, if you're asserting

yourself, your mother is going to think you're horrible no matter how

politely you put things. Just say what you need to say to clearly

establish that you are a separate and autonomous person.

> > >

> > > I had a conversation with my nada almost two weeks ago. I was

at

> > > work and couldn't finish the conversation, so she said to call

> her

> > > back so we could. I haven't called back yet becuase I don't

want

> > to

> > > finish the conversation. I am curious what you guys think

about

> > this

> > > conversation...insights/opinions would be relished. Here are

> some

> > > nuggets of what she said:

> > > 1. She wants to arrange " joint custody " of me with my

husband.

> > When

> > > I objected to that and told her I was no one's custody she said

> she

> > > knew that, but she just couldn't think of another way to say it.

> > >

> > > 2. She called my husband " uncaring " and said he had a " cold

> > heart. "

> > > (This is delusional..husband is a teacher, a monk (not joking)

> and

> > > going into seminary...cares deeply about many things, including

> me.)

> > >

> > > 3. She claimed that my husband purposely tried to be rude to

my

> > > family from the begginning because husband was trying to get my

> > > family not to like him. (also, frankly, delusional thinking.

> Who,

> > > besides a completely mentally unstable person, would try to get

> > > people not to like him?)

> > >

> > > 4. She claimed y husband didn't care about his relationship

with

> > my

> > > family, said things intended to hurt, and again, does things so

> > they

> > > know that he doesn't like them.

> > >

> > > Wow. That's all I can say. I am LIVID!

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you. That's really helpful.

> > > >

> > > > I had a conversation with my nada almost two weeks ago. I was

> at

> > > > work and couldn't finish the conversation, so she said to call

> > her

> > > > back so we could. I haven't called back yet becuase I don't

> want

> > > to

> > > > finish the conversation. I am curious what you guys think

> about

> > > this

> > > > conversation...insights/opinions would be relished. Here are

> > some

> > > > nuggets of what she said:

> > > > 1. She wants to arrange " joint custody " of me with my

> husband.

> > > When

> > > > I objected to that and told her I was no one's custody she said

> > she

> > > > knew that, but she just couldn't think of another way to say it.

> > > >

> > > > 2. She called my husband " uncaring " and said he had a " cold

> > > heart. "

> > > > (This is delusional..husband is a teacher, a monk (not joking)

> > and

> > > > going into seminary...cares deeply about many things, including

> > me.)

> > > >

> > > > 3. She claimed that my husband purposely tried to be rude to

> my

> > > > family from the begginning because husband was trying to get my

> > > > family not to like him. (also, frankly, delusional thinking.

> > Who,

> > > > besides a completely mentally unstable person, would try to get

> > > > people not to like him?)

> > > >

> > > > 4. She claimed y husband didn't care about his relationship

> with

> > > my

> > > > family, said things intended to hurt, and again, does things so

> > > they

> > > > know that he doesn't like them.

> > > >

> > > > Wow. That's all I can say. I am LIVID!

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> KT and everyone...thanks so much for your comments. I find myself

> right now struggling to be " nice " at all. For example, I don't want

> to even say to my nada that I understand that she feels upset that

I

> am spending more time with my husband than with her and she is

> entitled to feel that way. Intellectually I understand she is

> entitled to feel however she wants to feel or decides to feel. In

my

> anger, and I think it is anger, I don't want to give her even that

> much. I want to say that it is ridiculous for her to feel that

> way...but then I feel just like her. Being ridiculous about

others'

> feelings. Can anyone relate? Has anyone been over this hurdle

> before?

>

> Thanks,

> Lucky

Lucky-

There is a difference between your anger over her behavior and her

inappropriate feelings of neglect. It is maddening to deal with

someone who continually makes something out of nothing and who

creates problems where none exist. When I remarried, my Nada went

completely over the deep end. I could analyze why she did what she

did, but in the end, it still made me angry and upset even when I

understood the " why " behind it (i.e. BPD). I would say, let yourself

feel the anger long enough to formulate those healthy boundaries that

you need but not consume your thoughts. It is REALLY hard to spend

so much energy worrying about not hurting the BPD's feelings when

they never afford us the same courtesy...that explains the anger. It

also explains why so many of us go NC.

Take care-

JJFan

[Guest guest]

Hi Lucky,

I can really relate to what you wrote.  I think most of my life I argued with

my nada about her crazy feelings because they were absolutely crazy!  I didn't

realize that she was entitled to her feelings because I didn't even know I was

entitled to my own feelings.  I always heard how ridiculous anything I felt was,

or I'm too sensitive, or you're paranoid, or there's something really wrong with

you,whatever... I didn't even know I had feelings except those that someone else

told me I had.  I agree your nada's feelings sound bizarre,  but, they are her

feelings and she can't be denied her feelings.  Actually feelings are one of the

few things we really own, aren't they?  I read alot about bpd these past 6

months-from the non's side and from the bpd's side.  One thing I learned (that

is really really hard for me to do ) is to be able to validate nada's feelings

and show some sort of empathy.  Since I am always on guard and on the defense as

soon

as I hear my nada's voice on the phone knowing it will be another venting

session or how miserable she is or how rotten everyone in her life has been to

her or something of that nature it is so tiring to listen to let alone

validate.  The only thing I can tell you is I tried it twice (and believe me it

was one of the hardest things to do)-I listened, I actually said something to

the effect that I understood and that must have been so hard for you and it was

amazing how much better the conversation went.  It almost made me feel so bad

that  if I had learned about validation I might have avoided alot of raging,

screaming and clicked phones in my ear.  I googled " validation " one time and I

had come across this website about validation..  It totally freaked me out to

realize when you don't validate someone it is a form of emotional abuse.  I

reslly need to go back and find that website and read it again.  It was too

shocking for me at first as I never

validated my nada's feelings.  I knew what I saw and heard and I had little

compassion for what hurts or feelings she had.  How could I when I only saw the

hurtful mean things she said to my father or myself.  I was blind to the fact

that she needed some validation (whether or not I agreed and  even if I thought

her feelings were totally ).  I think what worked is it totally took my nada off

guard..she was shocked and what more could she say after that.  She couldn't

attack me or accuse me of always  defending my father or whoever she was blaming

for something.  She got validated and I didn't have to listen to her going on

one of her screaming raging tirades.  I forget to do it all the time and reading

what you wrote reminds me I should try it again.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:13:15 AM

Subject: Re: Opinions sought

>

> KT and everyone...thanks so much for your comments. I find myself

> right now struggling to be " nice " at all. For example, I don't want

> to even say to my nada that I understand that she feels upset that

I

> am spending more time with my husband than with her and she is

> entitled to feel that way. Intellectually I understand she is

> entitled to feel however she wants to feel or decides to feel. In

my

> anger, and I think it is anger, I don't want to give her even that

> much. I want to say that it is ridiculous for her to feel that

> way...but then I feel just like her. Being ridiculous about

others'

> feelings. Can anyone relate? Has anyone been over this hurdle

> before?

>

> Thanks,

> Lucky

Lucky-

There is a difference between your anger over her behavior and her

inappropriate feelings of neglect. It is maddening to deal with

someone who continually makes something out of nothing and who

creates problems where none exist. When I remarried, my Nada went

completely over the deep end. I could analyze why she did what she

did, but in the end, it still made me angry and upset even when I

understood the " why " behind it (i.e. BPD). I would say, let yourself

feel the anger long enough to formulate those healthy boundaries that

you need but not consume your thoughts. It is REALLY hard to spend

so much energy worrying about not hurting the BPD's feelings when

they never afford us the same courtesy...that explains the anger. It

also explains why so many of us go NC.

Take care-

JJFan