Re: Re: New list member

Posted December 2, 2008 · December 2, 2008

Hi Annie,

Thanks for your reply. I re-read my post just now and am surprised at how long

it turned out to be, and how much I obviously needed to get it out to someone

who would understand.

The lawyer idea is a good one. Don't you wish you could divorce your nada? I

think it may be time to check into counseling again. I've been to counselors

before and been frustrated mostly. It always seems like they want me to recount

all the shocking stories from my childhood, but don't necessarily have practical

advice for me or suggestions for learning coping skills I must have missed out

on as a kid. After I've brought them up to speed on the history, it almost

seems like they lose interest. Rehashing it without some hope for relief can

almost be more depressing than helpful. I'm starting to see references to

dialectical behavioral therapy and wonder if it might be something that could

help me. My copy of " Understanding the borderline mother " came yesterday and I

dove in head first! I can already tell it is going to be helpful.

Thanks again,

K

Subject: Re: New list member

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 10:41 AM

Hi K,

Wow. Your " nada " is the most extreme case of Waif bpd I've ever read

about here. You poor woman, you are literally being stalked and

harassed by your own mother, who definitely sounds severely mentally ill.

YOur nada has inflicted several of the abusive behaviors on you that

I've experienced from my own nada, but to a lesser degree. I can

particularly relate to the denigrating, critical, insulting and cruel

comments hurled at you in private, while showering praise on you in

public, and using gifts as manipulative tools, such as giving a gift

and then taking it back or demanding it be given back.

But I have never heard of the totally relentless stalking and

harassing behavior you are experiencing, that is so nightmarish.

I am willing to bet that members at this Group will have some advice

for you, as there are a wide range of bpd behaviors and experiences

with bpd parents posted about here.

Me personally, I'd consult with a psychiatrist about possible options

for you, and/or a lawyer.

It is totally inappropriate behavior to harass and stalk and

intimidate your adult child, you do have the right to live your own

life. Perhaps if you can have your nada evaluated by a psychiatrist

and she is found to be mentally incompetent, you can again be given

guardianship and find her a nice assisted-care facility where she can

be cared for, without you needing to be her care-giver personally.

Best of luck with this, you have a lot of fortitude and courage.

-Annie

>

> Hello,

>

> I am really grateful to have found this list. I can relate so well

to many of the posts I've read. Just learning the term " nada " has

been a tremendous comfort! I have ordered the book " Understanding

your borderline mother " and am looking forward to reading it.

>

> I am a 39 year old woman. My nada is 63 years old. She has

bi-polar disorder, and borderline personality disorder. I have known

for a long time that she has bi-polar disorder, but only recently

realized she has co-morbid borderline. I think some of the more

extreme bi-polar symptoms she had masked some of the borderline stuff

for a long time. She has one brother from whom we are both

estranged. He could not stand her manipulative behavior so he cut her

out of his life. I think I got included in it merely for being her

daughter. I have been estranged from my father since childhood. I

have no living grandparents, no siblings and no extended family. I am

blessed with a loving and level-headed husband.

>

> My nada focuses the glare of her obsessive attention on me alone.

She hates anyone close to me presumably because she sees them as a

threat. She behaves like a jealous spouse more than a mother. She

tells me I am a bad daughter for not taking care of her, but ignores

any practical advice I have ever given her. She tells me she is older

and wiser, and that I should not try to tell her how to live. She

says extremely cruel things to me in private (about my personality, my

appearance, my choices), and showers praise on me in front of other

people. There have been times she has made ugly faces at me in public

when no one else was looking. She seems to hate me, but won't let me go.

>

> I feel like I am in a fight for my life, and sanity. My nada's

attempts to merge with me are becoming increasingly more frantic. For

many years I have been LC. For me LC has meant that I see her on

mother's day, my birthday, her birthday, Thanksgiving and Christmas.

She does not know where I work, she does not have my home number. She

has my cell number, but I have no voicemail and have set her ringtone

to " silent " so her calls don't interrupt whatever I am doing.

However, she calls so often every day that I usually keep it turned

off or else she runs the battery down.

>

> I have tried to go NC, but she always steps up the pressure until I

crack. The more I pull away the harder she pursues me. It isn't out

of love for her that I finally agree to have contact, it is out of

self-preservation. For example, in my early twenties I was accepted

to a small college 2 hrs away from where she lives. I did not give her

my number but I did tell her where I was. She had a complete meltdown

and began calling the administration frantically saying she was dying

and needed help to contact her daughter. At the risk of being judged

I told people, " If she is dying, she needs a doctor. I am not a

doctor " . Soon I found notes addressed to me posted on campus

buildings saying " Call your mother, she is sick and needs help. " I

ignored her drama the best I could until she showed up at school. She

began soliciting help from random students walking through campus

saying she was having a heart attack and needed to find her

> daughter. I came home to find her in the lounge of my dorm with

several girls " helping her " with glasses of water, cold compresses and

aspirin. I had a meltdown myself at that point. I ended up feeling

forced to leave school out of concern that I couldn't keep up while

under such stress, and that she wouldn't stop until I came home. I

eventually had to hospitalize her and became her guardian for a time.

I put my life on hold for hers. This has become a common pattern in

my life.

>

> I can name many other similar episodes. I literally moved from the

east coast to the west coast to get away from her destructive presence

in my life. I didn't tell her where I lived. Somehow she found my

address and showed up on my doorstep with her purse, and her cat in a

carrier and announced her intention to live with me. I called the

police and they told me it was my job to take care of her because she

is my mother. I told them she is mentally ill and needed treatment

from a doctor. They said she wasn't a threat to herself or anyone

else, so they left her in my care. But she was a threat to me! She

was a threat to my stability! That is how I learned I cannot tell her

where I work, or mention any full names of people I know or work with

for fear she will go into detective mode. I would literally need to

go into witness relocation to escape her clutches and even then she

could probably give me a run for my money.

>

> She says she doesn't remember any of this. She denies it ever

happened. She re-writes history all the time. She takes no

responsibility whatsoever for interfering in my life over and over

again. She has said if I hadn't made decisions without her, things

would have worked out better for me. She says " families talk things

over with each other before they make decisions. You didn't discuss

these choices with your family " .

>

> I hate her. I can honestly say that. I feel sorry for her, and I

stay in communication for two reasons. 1) sense of obligation which

comes from a belief somewhere down deep that she cannot help this

because it is a mental illness. 2) I cannot escape her clutches. She

always pursues me harder when I withdraw. The next thing I know she

is showing up at my work, or arriving at my house uninvited.

>

> I have managed to have a stable career for several years. I am

happily married. I do not want her to destroy the two good things I

have managed to sustain in my life. She recently created a big drama

over financial problems she is having. She rejected my help when I

was her guardian, but now expects me to bail her out financially when

she gets herself into trouble. This is the kind of mixed message

she has always sent.

>

> Just before Thanksgiving she asked me to sell a family heirloom she

gave me when I got married. She wants the money. She's already sold

anything of value she inherited from her parents. She seems to have

no capacity for sentimentality. Things and people are valuable in so

far as they can get her what she wants/needs. She wields gifts like

weapons. She's asked me to sell this ring and give her the money

every year since she " gave " it to me. She said " you don't need it,

but I do " . She told me she " earned it " for visiting her grandmother

(to whom it belonged) in the nursing home. I told her I was angry,

hurt and disgusted with her. I told her I would not see her for her

birthday, Thanksgiving or Christmas. This, of course, just gives her

ammunition. She will tell the people in her condo how awful I am for

ignoring her on a family holiday. I have stuck to it so far. I

don't care what they think of

> me. But I have had a monster headache for several days now. I

suppose it is a tension headache.

>

> I decided to keep the ring. I sent her money and told her I sold

it. I didn't do this to help her. I did this so she will have to

stop asking me for the damn thing every year. She sent me a nasty

note saying I was punishing her, and that she will pay me back. I

feel so guilty for leaving her alone on Thanksgiving. And yet, I hate

myself for feeling guilty. I have felt like the mother in this

situation ever since I can remember. Why do I feel so obligated to

put her needs in front of my own?

>

> This type of thing has been going on for years. I am really so very

tired. I don't know how to stop this cycle but I know I must for my

own well-being….

>

> I guess my questions for this group are:

>

> How much control does a person with BPD have over their behavior?

> Have any of you successfully gone NC from a nada like mine? How did

you do it?

>

> Thank you for sharing your experiences and your hard-won wisdom with

me.

>

> K

>

Posted December 2, 2008 · December 2, 2008

OMG. The bit with the family heirloom just jumped out at me. The answer to your

first question is that a person with BPD knows EXACTLY what they are doing and

thus has control over their behavior. You have a whopping case of Narcissim on

your hands and if you have not read up on it there are a ton of web sites that

can help you put this part of the BPD issue into context. The more I read on

this board the more I have come to understand that there are really two groups

of BPD people we have in our lives: those with narcissistic tendencies and those

without. The narcissim just ramps up the disorder by a factor of a gazillion.

I will tell you what worked for me and it may help you with your counselors. BUY

A PERSONAL JOURNAL. In fact buy a stack of them. Then write. ALOT. If not, then

open a file on your computer and put it there. The objective is to sit down and

think about what has happened to you and what continues to happen to you. In my

opinion this is a critical step in your recovery that is second only to the

realization that the problem has a name-- BPD-- and that it is not about your

behavior but your reaction to abberant behavior that is the issue.

The journal is non-judgemental, it is a recorded history and it holds the truth

as you see it, so that you can go back and examine what it is that damages you

so.

The other thing that your post brought to mind with respect to counselors and

therapists is that the first question you ask them before you make an

appointment is if they know anything about BPD. Right off the bat, do not pass

go, do not collect $200. Their answer will tell you everything you need to know

and this fixation on your past behavior and then losing interest will be nipped

in the bud. A therapist who has delt with BPD knows that the past will come out

during the sessions. In fact, at first it will be all about the past. They also

know that it is an on going issue. In the long run this will save you a great

deal of wasted time.

As for NC. YES, there are many on this board who have successfully gone NC. But

in some instances, they have gone to extremes to do so. We are talking

Restraining Orders, we are talking about packing up and moving half way across

the country, or the world, in the dead of night and with no warning. It sounds

as if you have an extreme case on your hands.

Your nada is a manipulator and con artist. She has successfully manipulated you

into giving her money. Even though you told her that you sold the ring, she will

find out that you haven't and you will be back at square one, again. She has

your number and will make you dance to HER tune and right now you have few

defenses against her.

The way you develop defenses is to study her behavior and your reactions to it

and how it makes you FEEL. KOs are experts at stuffing our feelings and being

the best we can be because deep down we believe that we are the screw ups our

dysfunctional parents have always painted us to be. Thus, they yank our chain

and we dance. The goal is to not dance.

YOUR weapons are the truth and that journal. I do not say this lightly. We are

talking about your soul, here. We are talking about your sanity. Your nada will

do EVERYTHING in her power and pull out every stop to keep you where you are.

You must find a way to distance yourself from her. One poster deemed it

Compassionate Disinterest, which is a powerful way of thinking when it comes to

your BPD parent. You feel for the prediciment they have placed themselves in,

but you will do nothing to help them avoid the consequences of their actions.

It takes work to get to that point where you can tell your nada (or fada) that

while you appreciate that they are being evicted from their condo for lack of

payment, you CAN do nothing to help them because you lack the financial

resources to do so. Then you hang up the phone and let them deal with their

problem.

It is hard, but it is achievable to get to this point.

You can get to this point. This board will help.

Be strong

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 5:08:19 PM

Subject: Re: Re: New list member